I'm considering investing in a legacy deck with the upcoming EMA.
I currently play Merfolk and Death and Taxes in modern.
I really like the death and taxes style of play, small dudes and lotsa hate. But my question is: do I invest in it now or wait? I have all the cards for modern death and taxes, I would be missing 4 Stoneforge, 4 Mother of Runes, 4 Rishadan, 4 Wasteland, 1 Karakas, 1 Jitte. (Without even looking at the sideboard.)
I've even considered maverick, it plays a lot like GW death and taxes in modern. And looks super fun. (But the expensive cards would be the manabase. I would need 4 verdant, 2 marsh flats and all the duals.)
While merfolk the entry point would be cheaper. As I would only need 4 force of will, 1 chalice of the void and that's it. (probably more, but I don't know)
What would you guys suggest me? Invest in death and taxes now or wait? Do I pick merfolk? Any other suggestions?
Maverick has kind of fallen off the map in Legacy, it's nowhere near as present as it used to be and represents a pretty small portion of the meta. I can't think of the last time I actually had to face a Maverick deck actually. D&T is more common, and if you think you'd really enjoy playing it, you're going to enjoy the fact that some of the cards you need have recently been up for reprint, causing a substantial price drop in Wasteland in particular. Mother of Runes isn't a hard pickup either, it's kind of meh. A good friend of mine plays D&T and it's a great deck with a playstyle that's already suited to you. I would pursue D&T, and when EMA comes out, it shouldn't be too hard to complete Merfolk anyway and wind up with two legacy decks. I imagine there will be quite a few standard only players opening up Forces in draft that they don't want.
TLDR: Just start working on D&T, you're not that far off and I think based on your Modern deck you're experienced with its playstyle and enjoy it. I would prioritize getting the Ports and the Karakas, after that the rest of the pickups look far less intimidating. In the meantime, see what you can do about getting your Forces when EMA comes out. When you're only a set of Forces and a Chalice away from a Legacy deck, you might as well finish it. Make D&T your priority, but don't neglect snagging what you need for fish if it comes across your path and hopefully you'll have both decks done!
(BTW, I actually have a spare Karakas and Port, PM me if you become interested in them)
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
I'm considering investing in a legacy deck with the upcoming EMA.
I currently play Merfolk and Death and Taxes in modern.
I really like the death and taxes style of play, small dudes and lotsa hate. But my question is: do I invest in it now or wait? I have all the cards for modern death and taxes, I would be missing 4 Stoneforge, 4 Mother of Runes, 4 Rishadan, 4 Wasteland, 1 Karakas, 1 Jitte. (Without even looking at the sideboard.)
I've even considered maverick, it plays a lot like GW death and taxes in modern. And looks super fun. (But the expensive cards would be the manabase. I would need 4 verdant, 2 marsh flats and all the duals.)
While merfolk the entry point would be cheaper. As I would only need 4 force of will, 1 chalice of the void and that's it. (probably more, but I don't know)
What would you guys suggest me? Invest in death and taxes now or wait? Do I pick merfolk? Any other suggestions?
If you like DnT, you should play DnT. The "now or later" decision is entirely up to you. Do you want to play Legacy now? Could you wait?
I can wait to play legacy. I have no idea where to go or even that much free time to play legacy in paper.
My first legacy move will be made on MTGO. Currently Wasteland is 70 tix and Rishadan Port is 185 tix each. But I don't know how EMA will impact on prices.
Is my assumption that maverick plays a lot like DnT correct? Which cards should be safe to invest in now? (cards that won't lower their price with EMA.)
Anything on the reserve list is safe from reprinting. Wasteland is already confirmed as being reprinted. Port is not reserve listed, but it's also not confirmed as being in the set either, though this set would indeed be a good time to reprint it if they wanted.
Maverick plays similarly, but not identically to D&T. Due to the second color, I believe Maverick skips on Port but still plays Wasteland, but there's less focus on mana denial and more focus on a Zoo-esque strategy, as opposed to a control strategy like D&T. D&T doesn't have the versatility that Maverick does because it doesn't need it, your opponent's cards don't matter if they don't get to cast them. Maverick lets you cast them, it might throw some stumbling blocks at you on the way, but it aims to answer them and keep charging in. Green Sun's Zentith is the lynchpin of the deck, the deck plays more 1 ofs of toolboxy creatures and lands with GSZ letting you get what you need on the fly. D&T focuses on consistency and redundancy to get cards that enable its strategy. D&T is more consistent and probably better at dealing with a wide array of decks, one reason it puts up much better results competitively at large events. Maverick is better when you know the meta, and exactly what kind of toolbox you assemble for the deck. For instance, if Storm is a major part of your meta, you'll probably include a Gaddock Teeg or two, and max your Thalias. D&T doesn't adjust anything because it already plays 4 Thalias. If MUD is a major part of the meta, you'd sleeve up additional Pridemages. D&T doesn't adjust, it just names different cards with Phyrexian Revoker and uses Rishadan Port and Wasteland to control MUD's resources. If miracles is a huge part of the Meta, Maverick might add in Krosan Grip, D&T won't care and proceed with the attacking of the manabase and Thalia.
So while Maverick might have better options when it comes to beating a specific matchup it's prepared for, D&T is a much more versatile deck in an unknown meta.
*Edit* Just saw you're playing online. Since you are fine with waiting, I'd probably just keep waiting till EMA hits online to pickup reprints at a discount. I don't think any of the cards you're missing stands to jump with the EMA release, but some stand to fall.
My testing with Miracles has been great, but the price tag is more prohibitive than what I thought it would be. Recently I began testing Sac Land Tendrils and I really like the deck. However, getting into the format with a noninteractive combo deck seems like a bad idea. Am I making the right choice?
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I have recently acquired 2 badlands and 2 bayou. Is there a deck I can build for around 500 more that utilizes these? End game would be to play jund so a deck that uses similar cards would be awesome. Also side note I have goyfs and lillys
I have recently acquired 2 badlands and 2 bayou. Is there a deck I can build for around 500 more that utilizes these? End game would be to play jund so a deck that uses similar cards would be awesome. Also side note I have goyfs and lillys
@Ebonclaw
Thank you! That was really helpful. From what I could tell, modern death and taxes plays more like Maverick than legacy DnT. But Legacy death and taxes is right up my alley.
First off i play blue exclusively, and have the fetches for that already
I despise anything aggro, i enjoy decks that interact but not necessarily decks that try to just shut your opponent out
I play twin/grixis delver / Jeskai midrange in modern,
Due to budget duals are not an option immediately, but can be a goal worked towards, so nothing that requires duals to function at all (like 4c delver)
I was thinking ANT, but would like to hear other suggestions, hoping to keep initial investment under $1000
Well, TES and ANT are both good choices, but both require duals. Albeit not that many, TES, for example, plays 2 Seas, 2 Volcanics, and either Bayou or Badlands depending on configuration. I personally like TES better, but neither are really that blue based, TES really only uses it for Ponders, Gitaxian Probes, Brainstorms, and a few sideboard cards. If you're looking for a non-aggro blue based deck that requires few duals, High Tide is probably the first thing that comes to mind, but it's not necessarily very interactive, and its protection is more reactive based. You can play it effectively without candlesticks, but it's of course better with them. I would also suggest Miracles, but that's a pretty expensive deck. Beyond the duals and fetches, TES's last expensive cards are LEDs, adn the rest are commons or a bunch of $15 cards.
The big difference is that TES plays Rite of Flame and Chrome Mox over Cabal Ritual to keep its Ad Nauseum engine lean, whereas ANT prefers to play extra Dark Petitions/Ad Nauseums for redundancy, but makes the Ad Nauseum engine a little riskier. TES also uses Burning Wish to access a "toolbox" of sideboard cards to weasel its way out of various situations and provide access to alternate wincons, ANT plays its wincons maindeck and has a full sideboard. They each have their pros and cons, TES is a little faster and more explosive, aiming at going off with protection on T1/2 ANT is a little grindier and aims at going off a little later, on 3-4. It can go off earlier, but its far less common. You can PLAY the decks by substituting shocks, but both will be noticeably weakened since their primary engine is life total based and their big advantage is speed, so sending the shocks into play untapped is usually necessary.
Really, I don't think ANT/TES are bad options, but both decks are decks that require mastery to perform well. This makes them really rewarding, but sometimes underrepresented due to their complexity that many people aren't willing to put the effort into. There's a curve to learning to play it, to learning to play it well, and a final curve to playing genuinely competitively, but again, they are extremely rewarding decks to pilot well. Their interactions with opponents tend to revolve around knowing what cards a discard spell should be aimed at, and how to play around/bait your opponent into casting countermagic to fuel your storm count sometimes. A good understanding of mechanics and technicals is a prerequisite so you know the best way to sequence your spells.
If you're fond of blue based combo decks, you could also look at Tin Fins or Reanimator. I feel like these decks, however, catch more hate, as they attract hosers for both graveyards and storm players, but both decks are also really really fast. They need blue based duals to function as well so you're not going to save any cash going this route.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
The part about requiring mastery is part of what draws me to legacy in general, and those decks more specifically. The goal is to have a deck that i can play forever and not ever "outgrow" it per say
I guess i should explain a few other things. First, im aware that with budgetting comes loss of performance, so losing out on performance over shocks is acceptable as long as it doesnt just ruin the deck (4c delver)
I play blue exclusively was more a nod towards having a lot of necessary cards already than whatever deck i play has to rely on blue and blue alone
Even if you can only get a single, beat volcanic and underground Sea, having the ability to fetch them when it matters instead of a shock makes a significant difference. There have been some experiments to play a few more basics to dodge wasteland more effectively, but I don't think I've ever seen TES with more than two basics in it, most lists just run a single swamp. Older versions of TES leaned on Gemstone Mine back when it played four and five colors (white for Silence, green for Xantid Swarm) and played fewer fetches. Unfortunately, I think most people will agree that while the decks are playable without them, the performance increase with them is probably more than other decks. The good news is that these decks don't really get "outgrown" or obsoleted. Their lists change a bit here and there over the years, but I've been playing TES for about 3-4 years now and haven't really needed to acquire many cards. The printings of Abrupt Decay, Past in Flames, and GitProbe shifted the list around a bit and made it much better, but the decks have always been relevant and lethal, and I never go into any game thinking I'm just screwed.
LEDs are necessary for both decks, at $130 ea, this is about $500 for a playset of a card for which there is NO substitute. Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor are around $15 ea, max, so that's another $120. The rest of the deck is relatively inexpensive, gitprobes, ponders, brainstorms, rite of flame blah blah blah. Maybe another $100 after you add in the Chrome Moxes to the pile of random stuff you'll need. This leaves you with $400ish in your budget, and if you're willing to settle on some played condition duals, you can probably get at least one of each, Sea and Volc. You coud also proxy them if you know someone you could borrow them from for actual tournaments, but aside from the duals, both decks are within your budget, and seem to fit the bill for most of what you're seeking from Legacy. Also, expensive parts of these decks have the advantage of being staples for several different decks, and are primarily reserve list cards, making them safe investments if you do decide to change decks down the road. This pricetag can come down some too if you're willing to take played copies of LED and the other cards. I would study both of these decks a little more closely before making a final decision, but both of these decks offer a lot of challenge and precision play, they're not "autopilot" decks or glass cannons like Belcher or OopsAllSpells.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Even if you can only get a single, beat volcanic and underground Sea, having the ability to fetch them when it matters instead of a shock makes a significant difference. There have been some experiments to play a few more basics to dodge wasteland more effectively, but I don't think I've ever seen TES with more than two basics in it, most lists just run a single swamp. Older versions of TES leaned on Gemstone Mine back when it played four and five colors (white for Silence, green for Xantid Swarm) and played fewer fetches. Unfortunately, I think most people will agree that while the decks are playable without them, the performance increase with them is probably more than other decks. The good news is that these decks don't really get "outgrown" or obsoleted. Their lists change a bit here and there over the years, but I've been playing TES for about 3-4 years now and haven't really needed to acquire many cards. The printings of Abrupt Decay, Past in Flames, and GitProbe shifted the list around a bit and made it much better, but the decks have always been relevant and lethal, and I never go into any game thinking I'm just screwed.
LEDs are necessary for both decks, at $130 ea, this is about $500 for a playset of a card for which there is NO substitute. Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor are around $15 ea, max, so that's another $120. The rest of the deck is relatively inexpensive, gitprobes, ponders, brainstorms, rite of flame blah blah blah. Maybe another $100 after you add in the Chrome Moxes to the pile of random stuff you'll need. This leaves you with $400ish in your budget, and if you're willing to settle on some played condition duals, you can probably get at least one of each, Sea and Volc. You coud also proxy them if you know someone you could borrow them from for actual tournaments, but aside from the duals, both decks are within your budget, and seem to fit the bill for most of what you're seeking from Legacy. Also, expensive parts of these decks have the advantage of being staples for several different decks, and are primarily reserve list cards, making them safe investments if you do decide to change decks down the road. This pricetag can come down some too if you're willing to take played copies of LED and the other cards. I would study both of these decks a little more closely before making a final decision, but both of these decks offer a lot of challenge and precision play, they're not "autopilot" decks or glass cannons like Belcher or OopsAllSpells.
Thank you for the insight. Autopilot decks are a huge no for me, since you outgrow them in about 15 minutes, so that is great to hear. I will have to give this some time and thought, and you have been a lot of help
FYI, the TES thread on MTGS is fairly dead, but the deck is alive and well by all means and continues putting up results. Bryant Cook maintains a website dedicated to its play and evolution that is a terrific source on anything TES related, so it may be a good place to go seek out more info on the deck and its playstyle vs ANT. Feel free to ask me any questions about it as well, I check the TES thread regularly in case someone posts something interesting. I wish I could provide you with info on ANT, but there's nothing I could tell you that the ANT thread couldn't do better since I'm not as familiar with the deck. I just wanted to ensure you had a good resource for TES since the thread that exists is kind of stagnant.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Hi,
Getting back after a very long time, i'd like to get into legacy. Unfortunately, i sold my collection a few years ago, so no staples. Anyway, feel free to suggest, even if i'd rather keep it at a reasonable price.
I'd like to play a deck that gives me a game against anything else, rough chances against the field. I hate falling to hate or being completely helpless because of the MU. I want my deck to have answers, to be resilient, as I intend to keep it for a long time. I have tested miracles, nic fit, various delvers and got obliterated by 12-post, combo... The decks were fantastic but these MU... Is it possible?
The deck with the best match ups across the field is probably miracles. Yes 12 post will probably roll you but it's not a very widely seen deck and the match up is still not helpless.
The thing about Legacy is that the decks are so open and varied, that it's almost a guarantee you'll have to play against some dedicated hate, but you can minimize this by selecting a deck that doesn't suffer from too much crossover hate, meaning your opponents are less likely to be prepared. An example would be reanimator, which suffers from crossover hate aimed at dredge. Miracles is probably one of the better choices though, there's only a few cards that hate on it specifically, and while they are annoying to encounter, they're usually not game-ending. Xantid Swarm and Abrupt Decay come to mind. Some decks expect the hate to be brought and plan on being able to fight through it anyway by using discard spells to strip problems away. The aforementioned TES/ANT/Reanimator decks all feature some combinations of Duress/Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy to disrupt enough until they can make their big plays.
Lands is another pretty good choice that causes many problems for decks that are simply unable to interact in any meaningful way. The deck also is capable of taking out anything it gets paired against, I don't really think lands has a TERRIBLE matchup against anything, though it can have a weaker game 1 against combo.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Sphere effects are extremely punishing against most combo decks, even if they have answers to them, they take time to find and/or deploy them typically and cause the games to run later than combo decks would like. While a combo deck tries to figure out how to get past a Trinisphere, the lands player is unimpeded and aims at deploying Marit Lage. Lands can further pressure combo decks that are typically very reliant on nonbasics for stability by recurring wasteland with Life From the Loam and Rishadan Port can handle the occasional basic or two that slips past. This can make breaking out of a trinisphere even more difficult. Even if lands can't deploy Marit Lage, it can deploy more, multiple sphere effects. This is why you see many combo decks running Hurkyl's Recall out of the board. Yeah, game 1s against combo decks are still not great, but post board it's a lot more fair. ANT is particularly susceptible as it doesn't aim at comboing off till turn 3. TES still has a decent shot if it needs to go to game 3 to get on the play again as it can try and outrun potential disruption, but runs the risk of running into a Tabernacle if it tries to deploy an early Empty the Warrens in an attempt to outrace the hate. It's typically forced to go for the Tendrils kill, which is a little tougher to pull off on T1. Reanimator plays countermagic and some disruption, but is otherwise unable to meaningfully interact with Maze of Ith, and its disruption is blanked by at least 50% since discard spells can't take lands. Sneak/show gets to beat Maze of Ith with Emrakul, but lacks disruption altogether and has lighter countermagic, plus it feels bad to cast a Show and Tell and put in your Emrakul and your opponent plops down a Karakas, or Crop Rotates into one.
The short version is that Land's sideboard is aimed at targeting its weak point, combo, and makes game 2 and 3 much more fair. Many people can make a good argument that Lands is the best deck in the format and is underrepresented due to its cost to build. However, due to its underrepresentation, most decks lack dedicated hate cards for Lands and the best they can do is remove completely useless spells for whatever they might have that might help. When playing TES, I don't have much choice but to board out Empty the Warrens and Ponders for Abrupt Decays and Chain of Vapor/Hurkyl's Recalls, my sideboarding becomes reactive rather than proactive and I must mull to an aggressive, early combo hand or have the answers ready.
No problem. Just be warned that Lands pretty much requires at least one copy of The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. You can mitigate this cost somewhat by looking for an italian Legends one that has some playwear to it, but it's probably a card you'll have to really plan on how to obtain. A dealer at a GP is probably one of the most painless ways to get one if you have a bunch of good stock for trade, Tabernacle is a card that many players just plain don't have and the ones that do aren't willing to trade it unless you happen to have some very specific cards.
Anyway, I wanted to use your reply as an opportunity to point out that a lot of decks in Legacy don't always appear super powerful on the surface, but when you play them they suddenly shine much brighter than you might expect them to. Death and Taxes frequently looks like a generic pile of white weenie crap for instance, and then you play it and you're like "wow, this is kinda silly good." But on this line of thought it's also important to note that many decks gain a significant boost in power as their pilot plays them and learns the finer points and nuances someone who's never piloted it before might not know. A good pilot will know exactly at what point a game becomes unwinnable, but also knows exactly what it takes to turn the game around, and can take games that might look unwinnable to the novice pilot but by knowing a deck in and out, the experienced pilot can pull wins out of seemingly thin air. To all interested in playtesting a Legacy deck: expect the deck to do anywhere from 10-50% better based on experience alone. Playing your deck well is equal parts player skill and equal parts experience going up against other decks to know how to alter your strategy based on their decklists.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
I have recently acquired 2 badlands and 2 bayou. Is there a deck I can build for around 500 more that utilizes these? End game would be to play jund so a deck that uses similar cards would be awesome. Also side note I have goyfs and lillys
I currently play Merfolk and Death and Taxes in modern.
I really like the death and taxes style of play, small dudes and lotsa hate. But my question is: do I invest in it now or wait? I have all the cards for modern death and taxes, I would be missing 4 Stoneforge, 4 Mother of Runes, 4 Rishadan, 4 Wasteland, 1 Karakas, 1 Jitte. (Without even looking at the sideboard.)
I've even considered maverick, it plays a lot like GW death and taxes in modern. And looks super fun. (But the expensive cards would be the manabase. I would need 4 verdant, 2 marsh flats and all the duals.)
While merfolk the entry point would be cheaper. As I would only need 4 force of will, 1 chalice of the void and that's it. (probably more, but I don't know)
What would you guys suggest me? Invest in death and taxes now or wait? Do I pick merfolk? Any other suggestions?
TLDR: Just start working on D&T, you're not that far off and I think based on your Modern deck you're experienced with its playstyle and enjoy it. I would prioritize getting the Ports and the Karakas, after that the rest of the pickups look far less intimidating. In the meantime, see what you can do about getting your Forces when EMA comes out. When you're only a set of Forces and a Chalice away from a Legacy deck, you might as well finish it. Make D&T your priority, but don't neglect snagging what you need for fish if it comes across your path and hopefully you'll have both decks done!
(BTW, I actually have a spare Karakas and Port, PM me if you become interested in them)
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Spiral tide? Reset tide? Spiral counter top? Other?
If you like DnT, you should play DnT. The "now or later" decision is entirely up to you. Do you want to play Legacy now? Could you wait?
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
My first legacy move will be made on MTGO. Currently Wasteland is 70 tix and Rishadan Port is 185 tix each. But I don't know how EMA will impact on prices.
Is my assumption that maverick plays a lot like DnT correct? Which cards should be safe to invest in now? (cards that won't lower their price with EMA.)
Maverick plays similarly, but not identically to D&T. Due to the second color, I believe Maverick skips on Port but still plays Wasteland, but there's less focus on mana denial and more focus on a Zoo-esque strategy, as opposed to a control strategy like D&T. D&T doesn't have the versatility that Maverick does because it doesn't need it, your opponent's cards don't matter if they don't get to cast them. Maverick lets you cast them, it might throw some stumbling blocks at you on the way, but it aims to answer them and keep charging in. Green Sun's Zentith is the lynchpin of the deck, the deck plays more 1 ofs of toolboxy creatures and lands with GSZ letting you get what you need on the fly. D&T focuses on consistency and redundancy to get cards that enable its strategy. D&T is more consistent and probably better at dealing with a wide array of decks, one reason it puts up much better results competitively at large events. Maverick is better when you know the meta, and exactly what kind of toolbox you assemble for the deck. For instance, if Storm is a major part of your meta, you'll probably include a Gaddock Teeg or two, and max your Thalias. D&T doesn't adjust anything because it already plays 4 Thalias. If MUD is a major part of the meta, you'd sleeve up additional Pridemages. D&T doesn't adjust, it just names different cards with Phyrexian Revoker and uses Rishadan Port and Wasteland to control MUD's resources. If miracles is a huge part of the Meta, Maverick might add in Krosan Grip, D&T won't care and proceed with the attacking of the manabase and Thalia.
So while Maverick might have better options when it comes to beating a specific matchup it's prepared for, D&T is a much more versatile deck in an unknown meta.
*Edit* Just saw you're playing online. Since you are fine with waiting, I'd probably just keep waiting till EMA hits online to pickup reprints at a discount. I don't think any of the cards you're missing stands to jump with the EMA release, but some stand to fall.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Do you have any fetches?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Thank you! That was really helpful. From what I could tell, modern death and taxes plays more like Maverick than legacy DnT. But Legacy death and taxes is right up my alley.
I'll wait till EMA to pick up the cards.
Thanks for the info!
First off i play blue exclusively, and have the fetches for that already
I despise anything aggro, i enjoy decks that interact but not necessarily decks that try to just shut your opponent out
I play twin/grixis delver / Jeskai midrange in modern,
Due to budget duals are not an option immediately, but can be a goal worked towards, so nothing that requires duals to function at all (like 4c delver)
I was thinking ANT, but would like to hear other suggestions, hoping to keep initial investment under $1000
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
The big difference is that TES plays Rite of Flame and Chrome Mox over Cabal Ritual to keep its Ad Nauseum engine lean, whereas ANT prefers to play extra Dark Petitions/Ad Nauseums for redundancy, but makes the Ad Nauseum engine a little riskier. TES also uses Burning Wish to access a "toolbox" of sideboard cards to weasel its way out of various situations and provide access to alternate wincons, ANT plays its wincons maindeck and has a full sideboard. They each have their pros and cons, TES is a little faster and more explosive, aiming at going off with protection on T1/2 ANT is a little grindier and aims at going off a little later, on 3-4. It can go off earlier, but its far less common. You can PLAY the decks by substituting shocks, but both will be noticeably weakened since their primary engine is life total based and their big advantage is speed, so sending the shocks into play untapped is usually necessary.
Really, I don't think ANT/TES are bad options, but both decks are decks that require mastery to perform well. This makes them really rewarding, but sometimes underrepresented due to their complexity that many people aren't willing to put the effort into. There's a curve to learning to play it, to learning to play it well, and a final curve to playing genuinely competitively, but again, they are extremely rewarding decks to pilot well. Their interactions with opponents tend to revolve around knowing what cards a discard spell should be aimed at, and how to play around/bait your opponent into casting countermagic to fuel your storm count sometimes. A good understanding of mechanics and technicals is a prerequisite so you know the best way to sequence your spells.
If you're fond of blue based combo decks, you could also look at Tin Fins or Reanimator. I feel like these decks, however, catch more hate, as they attract hosers for both graveyards and storm players, but both decks are also really really fast. They need blue based duals to function as well so you're not going to save any cash going this route.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
I guess i should explain a few other things. First, im aware that with budgetting comes loss of performance, so losing out on performance over shocks is acceptable as long as it doesnt just ruin the deck (4c delver)
I play blue exclusively was more a nod towards having a lot of necessary cards already than whatever deck i play has to rely on blue and blue alone
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
LEDs are necessary for both decks, at $130 ea, this is about $500 for a playset of a card for which there is NO substitute. Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor are around $15 ea, max, so that's another $120. The rest of the deck is relatively inexpensive, gitprobes, ponders, brainstorms, rite of flame blah blah blah. Maybe another $100 after you add in the Chrome Moxes to the pile of random stuff you'll need. This leaves you with $400ish in your budget, and if you're willing to settle on some played condition duals, you can probably get at least one of each, Sea and Volc. You coud also proxy them if you know someone you could borrow them from for actual tournaments, but aside from the duals, both decks are within your budget, and seem to fit the bill for most of what you're seeking from Legacy. Also, expensive parts of these decks have the advantage of being staples for several different decks, and are primarily reserve list cards, making them safe investments if you do decide to change decks down the road. This pricetag can come down some too if you're willing to take played copies of LED and the other cards. I would study both of these decks a little more closely before making a final decision, but both of these decks offer a lot of challenge and precision play, they're not "autopilot" decks or glass cannons like Belcher or OopsAllSpells.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Thank you for the insight. Autopilot decks are a huge no for me, since you outgrow them in about 15 minutes, so that is great to hear. I will have to give this some time and thought, and you have been a lot of help
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
The deck with the best match ups across the field is probably miracles. Yes 12 post will probably roll you but it's not a very widely seen deck and the match up is still not helpless.
Lands is another pretty good choice that causes many problems for decks that are simply unable to interact in any meaningful way. The deck also is capable of taking out anything it gets paired against, I don't really think lands has a TERRIBLE matchup against anything, though it can have a weaker game 1 against combo.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
The short version is that Land's sideboard is aimed at targeting its weak point, combo, and makes game 2 and 3 much more fair. Many people can make a good argument that Lands is the best deck in the format and is underrepresented due to its cost to build. However, due to its underrepresentation, most decks lack dedicated hate cards for Lands and the best they can do is remove completely useless spells for whatever they might have that might help. When playing TES, I don't have much choice but to board out Empty the Warrens and Ponders for Abrupt Decays and Chain of Vapor/Hurkyl's Recalls, my sideboarding becomes reactive rather than proactive and I must mull to an aggressive, early combo hand or have the answers ready.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Anyway, I wanted to use your reply as an opportunity to point out that a lot of decks in Legacy don't always appear super powerful on the surface, but when you play them they suddenly shine much brighter than you might expect them to. Death and Taxes frequently looks like a generic pile of white weenie crap for instance, and then you play it and you're like "wow, this is kinda silly good." But on this line of thought it's also important to note that many decks gain a significant boost in power as their pilot plays them and learns the finer points and nuances someone who's never piloted it before might not know. A good pilot will know exactly at what point a game becomes unwinnable, but also knows exactly what it takes to turn the game around, and can take games that might look unwinnable to the novice pilot but by knowing a deck in and out, the experienced pilot can pull wins out of seemingly thin air. To all interested in playtesting a Legacy deck: expect the deck to do anywhere from 10-50% better based on experience alone. Playing your deck well is equal parts player skill and equal parts experience going up against other decks to know how to alter your strategy based on their decklists.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Yes 4 bloodstained and 4 wooded
You might be able to build Zombardment then.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
I have Pox and was looking at the gate as a backup or for when I wanted something different
or is pox just a better meta call?
The vibe I get is that Jund is generally stronger. But, I guess it's a moot point if you can't built Jund right now, right?
Well, something in The Gate family top 8'ed SCG Milwaukee yesterday.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=102538
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams