I am seriously considering getting into legacy. I have played modern for about 2 years now most of the decks Ive played around with are in my sig.
First thing to note is I'm only interested in Legacy on MTGO as I'm from Melbourne and the legacy scene isn't great. Additionally im trying to sell out of 50+ physical cards or at least avoid buying more.
With that in mind my budget is around 3-400 dollars but because of my Modern collection a lot of ~500 decklists fall into that category.
I was trying to avoid blue as that is mostly what I play in modern and even EDH. Even so by looking at the MTGOgoldfish metagame I made a shortlist but feel free to recommend anything else.
Esper Stoneblade Though I am dubious about it as its a little bit expensive.
Food chain For some reason i love the concept of this deck but again a little expensive.
12 post (mono-G or UG) I will be buying RG tron for modern after mm2015 comes out and this shares at least some cards.
Nic Fit I have a few of the cards for this and maverick but i was told by some people to not start legacy with nic fit for some reason.
Maverick
Obviously im going to bad with any deck until I know the meta better and what decks actually do. So skill level isn't really a problem.
Esper Stoneblade Though I am dubious about it as its a little bit expensive.
Food chain For some reason i love the concept of this deck but again a little expensive.
12 post (mono-G or UG) I will be buying RG tron for modern after mm2015 comes out and this shares at least some cards.
Nic Fit I have a few of the cards for this and maverick but i was told by some people to not start legacy with nic fit for some reason.
Maverick
People say not to start with nic fit because it is a skill intensive deck that requires advanced knowledge of the Legacy meta so you know what to play at what time. Same with Maverick, but you can start off with Maverick with the beatdown plan while you learn the meta (Maverick is beatdown combined with hate cards).
12 post is awesome if you want to play a green ramp deck, and is a good deck to get into if you want to learn the meta as it slows down the game against combo and aggro decks so you learn more.
Food Chain I have no idea sorry. From my experience watching it, it's a bunch of draw spells until you combo and play your entire deck.
Esper Stoneblade is pretty much a "Blue deck". If you want to avoid blue, this would be a deck I would avoid. It uses white for Stoneforge Mystic, Swords to Plowshare. It also uses black for Deathrite Shaman/Bob (depending on your build) and discard spells. The rest of the deck is blue and plays a blue control game.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
I love legacy cause just about any day of the week the decks will be equal and literally some of the best games i ever played.
I have burn affinity working on fish and reset tide.
I don't know if Grixis Delver is a thing now or not, and I can't speak to deck's staying power. It is very much a new kid on the block compared with Napoleonic Delver. Perhaps the cards exist for Grixis Delver to really have legs, but if I were plotting the acquisition of Underground Seas and Volcanic Islands, I would do so with decks other than Grixis Delver in mind. Most of that deck's expense is in the manabase.
1st one is I have a pretty good collection of Legacy staples. I want to use them, so I am considering making many Legacy decks, bringing them out to play casually, just so my collection isn't just sitting in a folder. Good idea, or too broad?
2nd problem is I recently seen Abzan Deathblade playlists. I am loving how the deck looks, being a 3-colour-hate deck that has outs with removal and discard. Although to build it I would be taking apart one of my favourite decks, Death & Taxes. I don't know if I should or not. I've had the deck for close to 2 years and I love the ability to Flash in creatures without being countered (Revoker is hilarious), although hard removal in the deck is hard. The downsides I see of going towards Abzan Deathblade is I lose the ability to have uncounterable threats, my Moms, and losing my 9-12 extra taxing effects (ports). Yet if I stay with Death & Taxes, I miss out on mana ramping from Deathrite Shaman, card advantage through Dark Confidant, Lingering Souls, Liliana of the Veil, more silver bullets, as well as discard and hard removal. I know it seems like Abzan has more that I want, but I do value the ports and Moms highly.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
1) You should double-sleeve your cards cause they're worth a lot.
2) Once you do, it's easy to switch common cards between the outer sleeves of different decks. Print out lists of common cards in small print so you can keep the mini-lists with the decks, so it's easy to know what cards to swap out at a moment's notice. Frequent resleeving doesn't cause wear, as the cards are protected in their inner sleeves.
3) Profit!
EDIT: Something that helps is proxying staples for casual play. So far I've only had to do this with Wasteland, usually with 3-mana off-color land destruction spells. So Stone Rain in mono-white Stax is Wasteland, Thermokarst in mono-Blue Merfolk is Wasteland, etc. If you go to an event, just move your inner-sleeved Wastes into place and you're good to go.
1) You should double-sleeve your cards cause they're worth a lot.
2) Once you do, it's easy to switch common cards between the outer sleeves of different decks. Print out lists of common cards in small print so you can keep the mini-lists with the decks, so it's easy to know what cards to swap out at a moment's notice. Frequent resleeving doesn't cause wear, as the cards are protected in their inner sleeves.
3) Profit!
EDIT: Something that helps is proxying staples for casual play. So far I've only had to do this with Wasteland, usually with 3-mana off-color land destruction spells. So Stone Rain in mono-white Stax is Wasteland, Thermokarst in mono-Blue Merfolk is Wasteland, etc. If you go to an event, just move your inner-sleeved Wastes into place and you're good to go.
Hmm that is helpful. I'm really also trying to figure if it is worth building Abzan Deathblade over Death & Taxes though. I haven't had much experience in Rock decks and Blade control. The closest Rock deck I've come to play is my Elves! deck.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
There is a way to go that's different from repeatedly cannibalizing one's decks to build new decks. That's a costly and difficult process, and the first time you make a circle getting back into a deck that you cannibalized long ago really hurts.
The more efficient (cash-wise, not time-wise) alternative:
Play with the deck you have, not the deck you fiercely desire. The deck you have in this case is DnT, so you even get to win a lot!
Get the sleeves for the deck you want and proxy all the cards you don't own yet.
Save and gradually purchase the cards you need.
Wait.
Now you have all the cards for both of these decks, with $0 wasted in inefficient transfers of cardboard.
After a few years, you'll have gathered enough staples by means of this process to play whatever deck you want. The only cards not in your collection will likely be either a) trivial to acquire (you simply haven't needed or wanted them yet), b) cards you hate and will never, ever buy (in my case this is Tarmogoyf), or c) wildly expensive fringe cards that you may, at some point, actually acquire now that you've got all of the other cards for their decks already (Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chains of Mephistopheles, Moat).
If memory serves, this isn't exactly the first time you've invoked the community's opinion on your choice of decks. I've watched you wander through several different decks, conducting trades and exchanges of different scales, cutting this and adding that. I sympathize with your lengthy journey in search of the perfect deck for you. It looks painful. I offer the suggestion that you may never find the perfect deck: your quest will be endless. If you agree with that, then a program of gradual acquisition becomes a lot more attractive. In three or four years you'll own much of the format. On the other hand, three years of transmuting one deck into the next will still leave you with basically that one deck. Owning all the decks > owning one deck.
Yup, +1 to Lormador. I came at it thinking you had everything to build several decks already, since you said, "I have a pretty good collection of Legacy staples." Now that I think about it, that statement is vague enough to make recommendations difficult. If you have more, you can do what I said. If you have less, do what he said. Good luck!
There is a way to go that's different from repeatedly cannibalizing one's decks to build new decks. That's a costly and difficult process, and the first time you make a circle getting back into a deck that you cannibalized long ago really hurts.
The more efficient (cash-wise, not time-wise) alternative:
Play with the deck you have, not the deck you fiercely desire. The deck you have in this case is DnT, so you even get to win a lot!
Get the sleeves for the deck you want and proxy all the cards you don't own yet.
Save and gradually purchase the cards you need.
Wait.
Now you have all the cards for both of these decks, with $0 wasted in inefficient transfers of cardboard.
After a few years, you'll have gathered enough staples by means of this process to play whatever deck you want. The only cards not in your collection will likely be either a) trivial to acquire (you simply haven't needed or wanted them yet), b) cards you hate and will never, ever buy (in my case this is Tarmogoyf), or c) wildly expensive fringe cards that you may, at some point, actually acquire now that you've got all of the other cards for their decks already (Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chains of Mephistopheles, Moat).
If memory serves, this isn't exactly the first time you've invoked the community's opinion on your choice of decks. I've watched you wander through several different decks, conducting trades and exchanges of different scales, cutting this and adding that. I sympathize with your lengthy journey in search of the perfect deck for you. It looks painful. I offer the suggestion that you may never find the perfect deck: your quest will be endless. If you agree with that, then a program of gradual acquisition becomes a lot more attractive. In three or four years you'll own much of the format. On the other hand, three years of transmuting one deck into the next will still leave you with basically that one deck. Owning all the decks > owning one deck.
I see what you are getting at Lormador. It is true I've been bouncing around different decks for quite a while. I just love all the different strategies that have emerged in the format and it makes me want to play them all. I see how proxying lists and then replacing the cards they need over time works out better than trading into different decks constantly. I might start that route, should have a while a go I think. Thanks for the advice. I'll start building a proxied Abzan Deathblade list and try it out, maybe even replacing them with the real cards if I like it enough.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Is there a way to make stoneblade without FoW's Karakas and Jace?
It is possible to do that, and what you get is a Deadguy Ale deck held together with blue glue... you can also find Deathblade lists here and there that have had some success with this historically. Some of these have stored their Force of Wills in the sideboard. You could probably fish out one of those lists and run with it.
The trouble is, if you happen to be exploring this angle due to budget constraints, that those decks run a fat pile of dual lands (some without any basics at all). You won't get away from Underground Sea and Tundra (either 2/3 or 3/2 split) to cast the deck's basic spells, then of course 1 Scrubland is needed so you can fetch 3 lands that can't be Wasted off of any of the main colors... and you'll play DRS, so a Tropical Island is wanted for his anti-creature ability... to top it off, if you want to play heavy green, a Bayou or at least a Savannah is helpful. Did I mention that the deck usually plays Wasteland itself?
Hello all,
I play death and taxes currently, and I'm looking into more decks now. With some cards,3 karakas, 4 wasteland, stoneforge, 2 force of will, 1 tundra I am looking for suggestions of decks to play with these cards. I am leaning towards a stoneblade deck, but what other options I could have using these cards. I am trying to build a blue deck ideally.
Well I've been waiting for MM15 to come out before officially buying my first modern deck. Some prices will drop I guess with this crap set. Anyways. I have a budget of $1,000 for my first deck so obviously anything with goyf probably won't work. I like combo decks like twin but I haven't tested it. Only deck I tested was Boros burn which I wasn't pleased with as it just dies to life gain and ad nauseaum. Id prefer a tier one deck but I don't have time to create proxies and play test every single deck out there. Tron looks fun and I love Aggro if it doesn't get burned out easily or run out of steam. Not against control/combo like twin just don't know how consists t it is. Having never played it. although I love izzet
Miracles would be the other UW option to use FoW and Tundra. If you are trying to keep multiple decks together at once, the only overlap between Death and Taxes and Miracles is Swords to Plowshares.
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Legacy: WRDeath and Taxes UWRMiracles UBTezzerator GTrinity GBWRLoam URLandstill
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Hello all,
I play death and taxes currently, and I'm looking into more decks now. With some cards,3 karakas, 4 wasteland, stoneforge, 2 force of will, 1 tundra I am looking for suggestions of decks to play with these cards. I am leaning towards a stoneblade deck, but what other options I could have using these cards. I am trying to build a blue deck ideally.
I like Bosque's suggestion of Miracles, but that is predicated on you being okay with that style of hard control. You won't use your wastelands, but it's a fairly reasonable deck to shoot for if you're looking to play blue. It also will set you up with most of the cards you're missing for UWR Stoneblade.
Well I've been waiting for MM15 to come out before officially buying my first modern deck. Some prices will drop I guess with this crap set. Anyways. I have a budget of $1,000 for my first deck so obviously anything with goyf probably won't work. I like combo decks like twin but I haven't tested it. Only deck I tested was Boros burn which I wasn't pleased with as it just dies to life gain and ad nauseaum. Id prefer a tier one deck but I don't have time to create proxies and play test every single deck out there. Tron looks fun and I love Aggro if it doesn't get burned out easily or run out of steam. Not against control/combo like twin just don't know how consists t it is. Having never played it. although I love izzet
Did you mean to post to Modern? Or are you asking if any of those strategies are also viable in legacy?
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
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ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
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ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
For those looking at a less FoWy stoneblade deck, there was an old Everyday Eternal podcast where they talked about Dega or Boros Deathblade playing RWB. Seemed like a neat, more rogue-ish idea that might be worth looking into if you want to be a little off the beaten path.
For those looking at a less FoWy stoneblade deck, there was an old Everyday Eternal podcast where they talked about Dega or Boros Deathblade playing RWB. Seemed like a neat, more rogue-ish idea that might be worth looking into if you want to be a little off the beaten path.
Team Italia. There's also some Junk versions of Deadguy that seem have put in some good results lately. I mean really, brewing with legacy staples of various flavors can be fun and can certainly win games. Merfolk is also an option if you want to use FoW and your Vials, there are builds that sometimes use Wasteland as well.
But back to the original question of using a Tundra and FoW... I think the big question is what play style do you enjoy? Do you want to use Stoneforge, Wastelands, Vials, or play an entirely new type of deck? Do you want to start top tier right away, or do you want to play a budgetized version that you slowly upgrade?
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Legacy: WRDeath and Taxes UWRMiracles UBTezzerator GTrinity GBWRLoam URLandstill
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
I would like some advice on what deck I should build towards the future. I'm currently 2x Underground Sea's away from completing my UBg Reanimator build. So you already know I own all the cards for that particular build. However I still have some Legacy staples left (MUD Welder and Stoneforge + Equips) and I'm thinking on selling those unless I can be convinced otherwise. I can already tell for sure that I will either sell both of those decks/staples (since it's too expensive to finish 2 decks that contain both) or either keep one of those to finish a deck up.
The first thing I've done for myself is look and compare lists of the decks on MTG TOP8 to really see which cards I'm still missing to complete a build and see how much the total cost would be. After that I cut all the decks above 1000 euro's (as well as decks I didn't really like or feel) and here are the possibilities I've ended up with:
1. Mono white D&T (+- 880 to invest)
The most expensive purchase to make, even though I have SFM and Equip package, swords, etc. Currently in the Decks to Beat section on the Source along with Omni-Show. Since I'm fairly new to the format, I don't know if it's viable to say how important it is that a deck is in the DTB section and whether this should be an argument to get into it or not. I guess the price could be lowered by cutting Karakas down to 2 which would make this deck more interesting price wise. Although Rishadan Port gives me the most doubts about getting into the deck. I usually play multiplayer and am not planning on making Goblins in the future as a Legacy deck, so Ports have a very low reusability. Of course it depends on how much I would play this deck.
2. Omni-Show (+- 780 to invest)
In the Decks to Beat section. Still quite high on price. Price could be lowered by cutting Volcanic Island and opt to go mono blue. Flusterstorm's price tag has risen since I last saw it, could opt for Spell Pierce maybe.
Bonus Points:
+ Can be played in multiplayer with some changes
+ Since I'm getting Show and Tell and City of Traitors it would allow me to change up my reanimator play style or sideboard package.
3. Elves (+- 750 to invest)
Basically need to entire deck except for GSZ. No experience with the deck at all, not sure how good or bad it is in the current meta since I'm fairly new. Gaea's Cradle is really expensive so... What I've always liked is drawing cards (Glimpse) and GSZ so... Worth considering.
Bonus points:
+ Easily converted to multiplayer
Downside:
- Gaea's Cradle is expensive and doesn't really offer play outside of Elves.
4. MUD (+- 600 to invest)
I have a multiplayer deck build around Goblin Welder and some of the staples missing in the list. Really like playing that in multiplayer. Just not really sure if it's the type of deck I would enjoy playing in Legacy. Though definitely a bonus that it's converted multiplayer version performs very well.
5. Storm (+- 380 to invest)
Putting my Reanimator deck together and having Dredge (no LEDS) for multiplayer has made sure I own a fair decent amount of the cards and the investment money wise isn't that much. Not sure if Volcanic Island is replaceable. That would lower the cost even further. Even if it isn't, still well affordable for me. I do hope Grim Tutor isn't a must have though.
Bonus points:
+ Getting LED's will allow me to finish Dredge making that even more powerful and making that another deck I can play in Legacy.
6. LED Dredge (+- 180 to invest)
See storm.
So there you have it. Of course I understand it isn't easy to ask a question like this without giving a budget. But since these are the lists I've ended up with, I guess these can be considered budget. I haven't included any Esper Blade lists since they require an investment like Elves and D&T but they don't really offer me any value in multiplayer. Even though I own stuff like Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, etc; since I own Reanimator and LEDless Dredge.
I guess what I would like is some feedback on which decks would be considered the best/better decks of the list and which decks (and therefore the cards in them) would be considered the best purchase (value-wise towards the future or whatever). And possible budget adaptations that could be made (like Volcanic Island in Storm or Omni or anything else).
What's your reanimator list? Are you running show and tells in the side anyways?
Hello all,
I play death and taxes currently, and I'm looking into more decks now. With some cards,3 karakas, 4 wasteland, stoneforge, 2 force of will, 1 tundra I am looking for suggestions of decks to play with these cards. I am leaning towards a stoneblade deck, but what other options I could have using these cards. I am trying to build a blue deck ideally.
Stoneblade would work, getting you gradually into a lot of Legacy's blue cards. The allied fetches are still cheap and easy to pick up at the moment, and the Back to Basics UW versions of the deck won't put a hurt on your Tundra counts. As your duals and Force count increases, other options will very quickly become available.
My girlfriend would like to know what deck could be nice for her but she's picky as hell, so here I am seeking help. She tried Burn, Elves!, Pox and Manaless Dredge so far. Manaless was by far her favorite choice, while she hated Elves!.
I asked her to make a list of the things she liked and disliked, so here it is.
What she likes about Manaless Dredge
-No need to ask if you keep or mulligan, you keep all the time. No need for headache, you have no lands, you keep.
-Lot of fun plays, a lot of cards, but always SIMPLE plays to do.
-A bit hard to play, recognition from other players, unlike Belcher.
-A lot of decision to make, but all decisions are simple.
-A lot of way to win.
-You lose or you win, no in between where you don't know. You don't have to work around anything, you don't have to fight that much around Leyline, you don't end with a ''I could have done that, or that better, if I did that...'' you just lose, it's easier to accept it.
-Fast games.
-Surprises people.
-All cards have a role, and it's easy to understand what card does what. It's simple to learn.
What she disliked about Elves!
-While it's nice to be able to answer everything, it's way too complicated to learn, the decisions are way too harsh, and it's just not fun in the end. The complexity for the power is not worth it.
-You can't win if you don't know your own deck but also your opponents, as you need to Cabal Therapy, etc. Cabal Therapies are easier in Dredge since you only target graveyard hate, and only rarely your opponent combo pieces.
-A lot of maths for everything you do: mana, attacks, etc.
-She didn't feel like she was doing something until her combo was starting.
So anything comes out in mind? Could an other deck fullfill what she wants?
My girlfriend would like to know what deck could be nice for her but she's picky as hell, so here I am seeking help. She tried Burn, Elves!, Pox and Manaless Dredge so far. Manaless was by far her favorite choice, while she hated Elves!.
I asked her to make a list of the things she liked and disliked, so here it is.
What she likes about Manaless Dredge
-No need to ask if you keep or mulligan, you keep all the time. No need for headache, you have no lands, you keep.
-Lot of fun plays, a lot of cards, but always SIMPLE plays to do.
-A bit hard to play, recognition from other players, unlike Belcher.
-A lot of decision to make, but all decisions are simple.
-A lot of way to win.
-You lose or you win, no in between where you don't know. You don't have to work around anything, you don't have to fight that much around Leyline, you don't end with a ''I could have done that, or that better, if I did that...'' you just lose, it's easier to accept it.
-Fast games.
-Surprises people.
-All cards have a role, and it's easy to understand what card does what. It's simple to learn.
What she disliked about Elves!
-While it's nice to be able to answer everything, it's way too complicated to learn, the decisions are way too harsh, and it's just not fun in the end. The complexity for the power is not worth it.
-You can't win if you don't know your own deck but also your opponents, as you need to Cabal Therapy, etc. Cabal Therapies are easier in Dredge since you only target graveyard hate, and only rarely your opponent combo pieces.
-A lot of maths for everything you do: mana, attacks, etc.
-She didn't feel like she was doing something until her combo was starting.
So anything comes out in mind? Could an other deck fullfill what she wants?
Thank you!
Well if she doesn't want to think to much, ignore Elves! entirely. I've been playing it for close to over a year and each game I still need to think through my moves as it is a toolbox deck that can combo for the win. Sometimes you ignore hate and combo off and other times you play the midrange game.
It seems she would love the Dredge mechanic more than any other mechanic in the game. I would suggest she should look into normal Dredge as well, difference is it runs lands for 1-drop spells. The reason why I say this, you can actually fight through the hate in normal Dredge while you can't in Manaless Dredge. Downside? Sometimes you need to mulligan, but not often. Benefits? More explosive and can fight hate.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
@DX
It seems that your girlfriend has a pretty strong combo bent. What did she think of Burn? Was that a positive or a negative experience for her?
Going further with the combo theme (and keeping in mind that it takes a special person to actually enjoy Dredge IMHO, particularly Manaless)... what about some of the other combo decks? I don't think Storm would necessarily be fun, it's at least as complex as Elves, but I think Reanimator, Omnitell, and Sneaky Show all have things to recommend them. Imperial Painter is really cool too. There's a mono red Sneak Attack deck as well though I can't venture to say how good it is.
Nothing (except Belcher) will approach the ultra-linearity of Manaless Dredge, but they might be worth exploring. Maybe she'd like Affinity? Or possibly MUD?
If she has a desire to play only the most tier-1 competitive decks, obviously that's going to narrow the field... but there are a lot of potential gems lurking in the tier 1.5 zone.
First thing to note is I'm only interested in Legacy on MTGO as I'm from Melbourne and the legacy scene isn't great. Additionally im trying to sell out of 50+ physical cards or at least avoid buying more.
With that in mind my budget is around 3-400 dollars but because of my Modern collection a lot of ~500 decklists fall into that category.
I was trying to avoid blue as that is mostly what I play in modern and even EDH. Even so by looking at the MTGOgoldfish metagame I made a shortlist but feel free to recommend anything else.
Esper Stoneblade Though I am dubious about it as its a little bit expensive.
Food chain For some reason i love the concept of this deck but again a little expensive.
12 post (mono-G or UG) I will be buying RG tron for modern after mm2015 comes out and this shares at least some cards.
Nic Fit I have a few of the cards for this and maverick but i was told by some people to not start legacy with nic fit for some reason.
Maverick
Obviously im going to bad with any deck until I know the meta better and what decks actually do. So skill level isn't really a problem.
People say not to start with nic fit because it is a skill intensive deck that requires advanced knowledge of the Legacy meta so you know what to play at what time. Same with Maverick, but you can start off with Maverick with the beatdown plan while you learn the meta (Maverick is beatdown combined with hate cards).
12 post is awesome if you want to play a green ramp deck, and is a good deck to get into if you want to learn the meta as it slows down the game against combo and aggro decks so you learn more.
Food Chain I have no idea sorry. From my experience watching it, it's a bunch of draw spells until you combo and play your entire deck.
Esper Stoneblade is pretty much a "Blue deck". If you want to avoid blue, this would be a deck I would avoid. It uses white for Stoneforge Mystic, Swords to Plowshare. It also uses black for Deathrite Shaman/Bob (depending on your build) and discard spells. The rest of the deck is blue and plays a blue control game.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
I have burn affinity working on fish and reset tide.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
I don't know if Grixis Delver is a thing now or not, and I can't speak to deck's staying power. It is very much a new kid on the block compared with Napoleonic Delver. Perhaps the cards exist for Grixis Delver to really have legs, but if I were plotting the acquisition of Underground Seas and Volcanic Islands, I would do so with decks other than Grixis Delver in mind. Most of that deck's expense is in the manabase.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
1st one is I have a pretty good collection of Legacy staples. I want to use them, so I am considering making many Legacy decks, bringing them out to play casually, just so my collection isn't just sitting in a folder. Good idea, or too broad?
2nd problem is I recently seen Abzan Deathblade playlists. I am loving how the deck looks, being a 3-colour-hate deck that has outs with removal and discard. Although to build it I would be taking apart one of my favourite decks, Death & Taxes. I don't know if I should or not. I've had the deck for close to 2 years and I love the ability to Flash in creatures without being countered (Revoker is hilarious), although hard removal in the deck is hard. The downsides I see of going towards Abzan Deathblade is I lose the ability to have uncounterable threats, my Moms, and losing my 9-12 extra taxing effects (ports). Yet if I stay with Death & Taxes, I miss out on mana ramping from Deathrite Shaman, card advantage through Dark Confidant, Lingering Souls, Liliana of the Veil, more silver bullets, as well as discard and hard removal. I know it seems like Abzan has more that I want, but I do value the ports and Moms highly.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
2) Once you do, it's easy to switch common cards between the outer sleeves of different decks. Print out lists of common cards in small print so you can keep the mini-lists with the decks, so it's easy to know what cards to swap out at a moment's notice. Frequent resleeving doesn't cause wear, as the cards are protected in their inner sleeves.
3) Profit!
EDIT: Something that helps is proxying staples for casual play. So far I've only had to do this with Wasteland, usually with 3-mana off-color land destruction spells. So Stone Rain in mono-white Stax is Wasteland, Thermokarst in mono-Blue Merfolk is Wasteland, etc. If you go to an event, just move your inner-sleeved Wastes into place and you're good to go.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Hmm that is helpful. I'm really also trying to figure if it is worth building Abzan Deathblade over Death & Taxes though. I haven't had much experience in Rock decks and Blade control. The closest Rock deck I've come to play is my Elves! deck.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
There is a way to go that's different from repeatedly cannibalizing one's decks to build new decks. That's a costly and difficult process, and the first time you make a circle getting back into a deck that you cannibalized long ago really hurts.
The more efficient (cash-wise, not time-wise) alternative:
After a few years, you'll have gathered enough staples by means of this process to play whatever deck you want. The only cards not in your collection will likely be either a) trivial to acquire (you simply haven't needed or wanted them yet), b) cards you hate and will never, ever buy (in my case this is Tarmogoyf), or c) wildly expensive fringe cards that you may, at some point, actually acquire now that you've got all of the other cards for their decks already (Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Chains of Mephistopheles, Moat).
If memory serves, this isn't exactly the first time you've invoked the community's opinion on your choice of decks. I've watched you wander through several different decks, conducting trades and exchanges of different scales, cutting this and adding that. I sympathize with your lengthy journey in search of the perfect deck for you. It looks painful. I offer the suggestion that you may never find the perfect deck: your quest will be endless. If you agree with that, then a program of gradual acquisition becomes a lot more attractive. In three or four years you'll own much of the format. On the other hand, three years of transmuting one deck into the next will still leave you with basically that one deck. Owning all the decks > owning one deck.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I see what you are getting at Lormador. It is true I've been bouncing around different decks for quite a while. I just love all the different strategies that have emerged in the format and it makes me want to play them all. I see how proxying lists and then replacing the cards they need over time works out better than trading into different decks constantly. I might start that route, should have a while a go I think. Thanks for the advice. I'll start building a proxied Abzan Deathblade list and try it out, maybe even replacing them with the real cards if I like it enough.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
not sure what one to build first....
It is possible to do that, and what you get is a Deadguy Ale deck held together with blue glue... you can also find Deathblade lists here and there that have had some success with this historically. Some of these have stored their Force of Wills in the sideboard. You could probably fish out one of those lists and run with it.
The trouble is, if you happen to be exploring this angle due to budget constraints, that those decks run a fat pile of dual lands (some without any basics at all). You won't get away from Underground Sea and Tundra (either 2/3 or 3/2 split) to cast the deck's basic spells, then of course 1 Scrubland is needed so you can fetch 3 lands that can't be Wasted off of any of the main colors... and you'll play DRS, so a Tropical Island is wanted for his anti-creature ability... to top it off, if you want to play heavy green, a Bayou or at least a Savannah is helpful. Did I mention that the deck usually plays Wasteland itself?
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I play death and taxes currently, and I'm looking into more decks now. With some cards,3 karakas, 4 wasteland, stoneforge, 2 force of will, 1 tundra I am looking for suggestions of decks to play with these cards. I am leaning towards a stoneblade deck, but what other options I could have using these cards. I am trying to build a blue deck ideally.
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Did you mean to post to Modern? Or are you asking if any of those strategies are also viable in legacy?
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2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Team Italia. There's also some Junk versions of Deadguy that seem have put in some good results lately. I mean really, brewing with legacy staples of various flavors can be fun and can certainly win games. Merfolk is also an option if you want to use FoW and your Vials, there are builds that sometimes use Wasteland as well.
But back to the original question of using a Tundra and FoW... I think the big question is what play style do you enjoy? Do you want to use Stoneforge, Wastelands, Vials, or play an entirely new type of deck? Do you want to start top tier right away, or do you want to play a budgetized version that you slowly upgrade?
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
What's your reanimator list? Are you running show and tells in the side anyways?
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Stoneblade would work, getting you gradually into a lot of Legacy's blue cards. The allied fetches are still cheap and easy to pick up at the moment, and the Back to Basics UW versions of the deck won't put a hurt on your Tundra counts. As your duals and Force count increases, other options will very quickly become available.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
My girlfriend would like to know what deck could be nice for her but she's picky as hell, so here I am seeking help. She tried Burn, Elves!, Pox and Manaless Dredge so far. Manaless was by far her favorite choice, while she hated Elves!.
I asked her to make a list of the things she liked and disliked, so here it is.
What she likes about Manaless Dredge
-No need to ask if you keep or mulligan, you keep all the time. No need for headache, you have no lands, you keep.
-Lot of fun plays, a lot of cards, but always SIMPLE plays to do.
-A bit hard to play, recognition from other players, unlike Belcher.
-A lot of decision to make, but all decisions are simple.
-A lot of way to win.
-You lose or you win, no in between where you don't know. You don't have to work around anything, you don't have to fight that much around Leyline, you don't end with a ''I could have done that, or that better, if I did that...'' you just lose, it's easier to accept it.
-Fast games.
-Surprises people.
-All cards have a role, and it's easy to understand what card does what. It's simple to learn.
What she disliked about Elves!
-While it's nice to be able to answer everything, it's way too complicated to learn, the decisions are way too harsh, and it's just not fun in the end. The complexity for the power is not worth it.
-You can't win if you don't know your own deck but also your opponents, as you need to Cabal Therapy, etc. Cabal Therapies are easier in Dredge since you only target graveyard hate, and only rarely your opponent combo pieces.
-A lot of maths for everything you do: mana, attacks, etc.
-She didn't feel like she was doing something until her combo was starting.
So anything comes out in mind? Could an other deck fullfill what she wants?
Thank you!
Well if she doesn't want to think to much, ignore Elves! entirely. I've been playing it for close to over a year and each game I still need to think through my moves as it is a toolbox deck that can combo for the win. Sometimes you ignore hate and combo off and other times you play the midrange game.
It seems she would love the Dredge mechanic more than any other mechanic in the game. I would suggest she should look into normal Dredge as well, difference is it runs lands for 1-drop spells. The reason why I say this, you can actually fight through the hate in normal Dredge while you can't in Manaless Dredge. Downside? Sometimes you need to mulligan, but not often. Benefits? More explosive and can fight hate.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
It seems that your girlfriend has a pretty strong combo bent. What did she think of Burn? Was that a positive or a negative experience for her?
Going further with the combo theme (and keeping in mind that it takes a special person to actually enjoy Dredge IMHO, particularly Manaless)... what about some of the other combo decks? I don't think Storm would necessarily be fun, it's at least as complex as Elves, but I think Reanimator, Omnitell, and Sneaky Show all have things to recommend them. Imperial Painter is really cool too. There's a mono red Sneak Attack deck as well though I can't venture to say how good it is.
Nothing (except Belcher) will approach the ultra-linearity of Manaless Dredge, but they might be worth exploring. Maybe she'd like Affinity? Or possibly MUD?
If she has a desire to play only the most tier-1 competitive decks, obviously that's going to narrow the field... but there are a lot of potential gems lurking in the tier 1.5 zone.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730