Sorry, i am not particular familar with legacy metagame. when you said affinity is not as competitive than burn, you mean it is slower compared to burn? what is the main reason for that statement? in modern affinity tends to have an edge over burn though. is there any particular deck or sideboard cards that kill affinity outright? i understand pernicious deed is vicious, what else is a real threat? as for burn, what are the cards that i need to acquire outside of modern cards?
Let me explain, as I am an old Affinity player of both Modern & Legacy. The reason why Affinity is so efficient in Modern is because it is really hard for any deck to win before turn 4. In Legacy, to survive before turn 4, you have to have some kind of removal and disruption. Legacy Affinity has none, and on top of it, it does not play a hand. The only deck to successfully play without a hand is Storm so it can use Infernal Tutor. Sure Affinity can kill faster with the Legacy version and is more powerful, but the deck just dies to multiple forms, such as a Elesh Norn reanimated, Terminus Miracled, Force of Wills taking your Cranial Plating. Affinity certain pieces in combination to win, while burn does not.
The reason why burn is competitive in Legacy is all because of Eidilon of the Great Revel. She forces people's hands to remove her otherwise they can kill themselves. The deck is brutally efficient as almost every top card you draw is 3+ damage and has so much removal that it can stop other strategies.
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Sorry, i am not particular familar with legacy metagame. when you said affinity is not as competitive than burn, you mean it is slower compared to burn? what is the main reason for that statement? in modern affinity tends to have an edge over burn though. is there any particular deck or sideboard cards that kill affinity outright? i understand pernicious deed is vicious, what else is a real threat? as for burn, what are the cards that i need to acquire outside of modern cards?
I'll take a stab at this, though I don't play Modern very much at all. What I do play is Legacy Burn.
Legacy Burn has this weird difference with its Modern variant in that it is not attempting to kill the opponent as quickly as possible. There are loads of faster ways to kill in Legacy. Instead, Legacy Burn functions by invalidating the disruptive elements of control decks. Force of Will is terrible against Chain Lightning, and Thoughtseize doesn't do much either. One might easily resolve both spells against a Burn deck and hardly affect it at all. You might stop some cards that Burn would rather have resolved, but all the cards still do basically the same thing.
Affinity is better than it's given credit for a lot of the time, but in this case its synergistic "win with creatures" style not only runs hard up against the Legacy combo decks, but becomes much more vulnerable to the control elements that Burn ignores. Force of Will or Thoughtseize on Cranial Plating could leave Affinity with a just a pair of smallish robots. Terminus and Counterbalance are unwelcome sights. The other "creature synergy" deck in Legacy, Elves, is a fierce competitor. Even the -1/-1 hate aimed at TNN is relevant.
The thing is, couple of my friends want's me to start playing Legacy. Before I have been mostly Modern player with goblins, BW tokens and mono-g infect. Then again, there aren't that many Legacy tournaments around where I live. That means I would probably attend Legacy tournaments ~4 times a year.
I am searching for a deck that does not need most expensive cards like Force of Will, dual lands or Lion's Eye Diamond. In addition to this ridiculous demand I don't like to play burn. I know that with my budget (no cards that are over 20€) the probably correct way is to towards unfair decks, such as combo decks. So I proxied manaless dredge deck for playtesting and I felt that even though it was quite consistent on comboing off, it was very vulnerable to graveyard hate. That mean's if I don't combo on turn 2-3, I'm dead. Are there any unfair decks that are able to win and are super budget, or are there any fair creature based decks around that are really cheap?
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Modern: BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes) Legacy: BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
The thing is, couple of my friends want's me to start playing Legacy. Before I have been mostly Modern player with goblins, BW tokens and mono-g infect. Then again, there aren't that many Legacy tournaments around where I live. That means I would probably attend Legacy tournaments ~4 times a year.
I am searching for a deck that does not need most expensive cards like Force of Will, dual lands or Lion's Eye Diamond. In addition to this ridiculous demand I don't like to play burn. I know that with my budget (no cards that are over 20€) the probably correct way is to towards unfair decks, such as combo decks. So I proxied manaless dredge deck for playtesting and I felt that even though it was quite consistent on comboing off, it was very vulnerable to graveyard hate. That mean's if I don't combo on turn 2-3, I'm dead. Are there any unfair decks that are able to win and are super budget, or are there any fair creature based decks around that are really cheap?
Might I suggest something crazy? You play Modern Goblins you said? Thought about Legacy Goblins? There is a budget version where you don't need wastelands or ports and is more aggressive. It isn't a top tier deck, but it is fun as hell. I find it more fun than Merfolk which I find sad since I love blue.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
The thing is, couple of my friends want's me to start playing Legacy. Before I have been mostly Modern player with goblins, BW tokens and mono-g infect. Then again, there aren't that many Legacy tournaments around where I live. That means I would probably attend Legacy tournaments ~4 times a year.
I am searching for a deck that does not need most expensive cards like Force of Will, dual lands or Lion's Eye Diamond. In addition to this ridiculous demand I don't like to play burn. I know that with my budget (no cards that are over 20€) the probably correct way is to towards unfair decks, such as combo decks. So I proxied manaless dredge deck for playtesting and I felt that even though it was quite consistent on comboing off, it was very vulnerable to graveyard hate. That mean's if I don't combo on turn 2-3, I'm dead. Are there any unfair decks that are able to win and are super budget, or are there any fair creature based decks around that are really cheap?
Manaless and LED-powered aren't the only two Dredge varieties. Before Faithless Looting was printed the deck ran a somewhat different configuration, and these decks are still rather strong. They have options for playing around hate, and there is no need to just get run over by it.
If Dredge sounds like what you'd like to play, I'd recommend looking into that sort of thing.
I'm considering building Legacy but I'm not sure. I thought I'd at least ask here for an opinion and see what people recommend I do. For the moment, I'm a Modern player but I have a fair number of friends playing Legacy. I've always entertained the idea but I sort of have some extra cash I could spend.
Favourite Archetype: I like tempo decks like Delver that are sort of focused goodstuff decks. I think the game plan of landing an early threat and keeping it alive/staying ahead is great. I also like combo control decks where I play a sort of control game for a while and then finish off with some sort of win condition that's difficult to stop, and am less a fan of control decks where I have to work for every point of damage.
Favourite Colour: I'm pretty much blue at heart. I like being able to be reactionary and not so much being all in. For reference in Modern, I've played UW Tron, Twin, UR Delver, and UWR Control primarily.
I've been considering decks like Delver, Miracles, and Sneak and Show. Delver is an archetype I've played in Standard and Modern, and I like it a fair bit. I think I'd lean more towards URx versions of Delver rather than something like a BUG variant. I've also enjoyed Sneak and Show, just dropping huge things into play was always kind of fun. I've had fun in the past playing with Miracles on Cockatrice, but I'm not sure it's the best choice.
One of the main things I want to do is try to find a deck that won't get hated out easily. I don't want to invest 2k or however much into a deck to find out that it's just a bad option for this tournament or meta. I would rather pick a deck that's consistently good and never the best deck rather than a deck that's sometimes really good and sometimes unplayable. That is, I really want my money to go as far as it can and last me as long as it can. It would also be good if there were other decks I could play with reasonably small investments.
I also happen to think Goyf might be a good investment for me because it's a card I'm missing in Modern, and thus using it in both formats seems like win-win to me.
List of staples owned (ps I'm not really open to moving things as I use many of them for Modern):
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Dark Confidant
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Emrakul
4 Goblin Guide
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Clique
4 Snapcaster
4 Probe
4 Young Pyromancer
As much as I much prefer RUG delver to UWR, I think UWR delver is the deck for you to go into. It's the one that will leave you the greatest options since the expensive cards greatly overlap with UWR stoneblade and UWR Miracles (stoneblade is blue midrange that can land a threat but play to a more controlling gameplan, and Miracles was also on your list of options).
The deck gets you set up on a versatile package of staples and having the volcanics, fetches, and FoWs means that you're also halfway to SneakShow if you feel like expanding your options down the line.
Essentially, UWR makes you bite the bullet on expensive staples early, but it leaves you very open to play almost anything that fits what you've indicated as your interests with minimal further outlay.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
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can't go wrong with any deck that plays volcs, tarns, and FoW. Pretty much gets you anywhere in legacy. You can play simple UR delver, UWR delver, UWR stoneblade, miracles, sneak and show, and then a whole bunch of other good stuff.
goyf sees rather limited play in legacy, shows up in temur and sultai delver, sultai control, and punishing jund, and sometimes maverick. But from the decks you were interested in legacy nothing really overlapped into goyf territory, except sultai control. That's a solid option, as you get to play jace, fow, and brainstorm along side DRS, shardless agent, and liliana which is fun. It's a solid deck that needs to be played around carefully, but it's a relatively hard deck to pilot, making optimal plays can be kinda tough seeing as how it's far more interactive than something like miracles, which is hard to pilot, but I think you're interacting with yourself and your deck more than the other player.
If you're budget isn't astronomical, I'd say either invest in UR lands because the pairings are tundra for the white splash, and if you go for UB, then the pairing is UG which are equally expensive. and splashing white into UR decks is powerful, but not necessary, unlike going for a UB or UG base where you really need all 3 colors to be effective.
As much as I much prefer RUG delver to UWR, I think UWR delver is the deck for you to go into. It's the one that will leave you the greatest options since the expensive cards greatly overlap with UWR stoneblade and UWR Miracles (stoneblade is blue midrange that can land a threat but play to a more controlling gameplan, and Miracles was also on your list of options).
Just going to elaborate a bit on your delver comment for the OP. Sultai and temur delver are very strong, but they are much more a reactive, resource denial style deck. They play goyf, wasteland, thoughtsieze / abrupt decay (in bug) and rug plays counters instead of TS / AD. Of the two, temur delver fits your playstyle a bit more as you play your delver / goyf / TNN and then protect it with counters and wastelands, and win a war of attrition, but if you want aggressive firepower filled deck, UWR is where you wanna be.
Hey guys, I'm looking for opinions on what second deck (ANT as the first) will allow me to have a deck that can do well in almost any meta (preferably more "evergreen decks". Assume budget is not an option (lands, shardless bug and 12post are all on the table) Thanks everyone! The list of decks below is not up to date so don't consider it a guideline or limit!
I believe 12Post is your best bet for a second deck in "any" meta out of the decks you mentioned. It stalls, it has counterspells, does not rely on it's graveyard, very little hate against it, etc.
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Sorry if there was confusion I'm not limited to those decks they were just examples of obscure decks or ones with high price points! Still thank you for the reply!
I think Miracles is the most stable consistent performer. It can be tuned to compete with anything.
That being said, I'd probably go for Lands. I have quite the sweet spot for the deck and it should do quite a good job of complementing ANT's strengths so as to give you a top competitor regardless of the meta.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I recently have been trying and testing MonoU Omni-Tell and have started to really enjoy it. I can easily afford finishing it off ($500) compared to my Reanimator deck ($2000, thanks dual lands...). So with pieces of Reanimator just sitting in a box, I was wondering what deck Iona, Elesh Norn, and Griselbrand can all go into which is not Reanimator? Well I forgot there is Dredge, what seems to be the "true" graveyard deck in my eyes as it also casts spells from the grave as well as resurrecting an army. So here is my question. Should I build LEDless Dredge (I'd grab the LEDs latter on)? Is it just as powerful as Reanimator? Is it worth the money? Since I do seem to love combo most, would I enjoy it? (I've heard a lot of people say dredge is neither combo nor aggro but seems to meld with both)
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I recently have been trying and testing MonoU Omni-Tell and have started to really enjoy it. I can easily afford finishing it off ($500) compared to my Reanimator deck ($2000, thanks dual lands...). So with pieces of Reanimator just sitting in a box, I was wondering what deck Iona, Elesh Norn, and Griselbrand can all go into which is not Reanimator? Well I forgot there is Dredge, what seems to be the "true" graveyard deck in my eyes as it also casts spells from the grave as well as resurrecting an army. So here is my question. Should I build LEDless Dredge (I'd grab the LEDs latter on)? Is it just as powerful as Reanimator? Is it worth the money? Since I do seem to love combo most, would I enjoy it? (I've heard a lot of people say dredge is neither combo nor aggro but seems to meld with both)
Elesh, Iona, and Grisel can probably be ran in Nic Fit or something. Idk, that deck is weird though -- seemingly fun but also seems weird. Also, Iona and Griselbrand are sometimes ran in Dredge (and sometimes LEDless Dredge and Manaless Dredge). Dredge is a pretty solid deck overall. You should proxy it and see how it feels. It's quite fun. I'm not really a dredge player though, so I don't like playing it for long. LEDless Manaless Dredge IMO is really boring. Idk, it's a really cool deck by design and can be fun the first few times, but I find it can't vary in its lines of plays by its sheer design. It's pretty awkward to play in games 2 and 3 as well. So Idk, not worth IMO.
Dredge with LED's, yeah sure, go for it. Can be great if you like that deck style.
LEDlessDredge, budget-friendly, but I'd imagine it being less explosive.
Manaless Dredge -- even more budget-friendly, but IMO miserable after a while, so no I wouldn't go for it. Because you get blown out so easily by grave-hate, awkward side boarding, and simply being forced to go first. Then again though, there are some die-hards who are trying to revolutionize and innovate. All versions can run fatties in the sideboard though. So there's that.
Are you still thinking about building MonoU Omni-Tell?
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I recently have been trying and testing MonoU Omni-Tell and have started to really enjoy it. I can easily afford finishing it off ($500) compared to my Reanimator deck ($2000, thanks dual lands...). So with pieces of Reanimator just sitting in a box, I was wondering what deck Iona, Elesh Norn, and Griselbrand can all go into which is not Reanimator? Well I forgot there is Dredge, what seems to be the "true" graveyard deck in my eyes as it also casts spells from the grave as well as resurrecting an army. So here is my question. Should I build LEDless Dredge (I'd grab the LEDs latter on)? Is it just as powerful as Reanimator? Is it worth the money? Since I do seem to love combo most, would I enjoy it? (I've heard a lot of people say dredge is neither combo nor aggro but seems to meld with both)
Elesh, Iona, and Grisel can probably be ran in Nic Fit or something. Idk, that deck is weird though -- seemingly fun but also seems weird. Also, Iona and Griselbrand are sometimes ran in Dredge (and sometimes LEDless Dredge). Dredge is a pretty solid deck overall. You should proxy it and see how it feels. It's quite fun. I'm not really a dredge player though, so I don't like playing it for long. LEDless Dredge IMO is really boring. Idk, it's a really cool deck by design and can be fun the first few times, but I find it can't vary in its lines of plays by its sheer design. It's pretty awkward to play in games 2 and 3 as well. So Idk, not worth IMO.
Dredge with LED's, yeah sure, go for it. Can be great if you like that deck style.
LEDlessDredge, IMO miserable after a while, so no I wouldn't go for it. Because you get blown out so easily by grave-hate, awkward side boarding, and simply being forced to go first. Then again though, there are some die-hards who are trying to revolutionize and innovate. Both versions can run fatties in the sideboard though. So there's that.
Are you still thinking about building MonoU Omni-Tell?
Yes I am still going to build MonoU Omni-Tell, been enjoying how I can kill through Emrakul and storming my opponent if I need to.
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Hmm, in that case, I suppose it's ok to go for Dredge. I wouldn't do full-powered LED Dredge unless I'm dead set on it, because LED's are pretty expensive (good to have, but I wouldn't go out of the way to get them unless I intend to build Dredge or Storm).
Also, I should edit what I said above. Everything negative I was talking about LEDless Dredge....was actually directed towards Manaless Dredge. Sometimes I mix the two/three up (Quadlaser/LEDDredge, LEDless Dredge, Manaless Dredge). For clarity to those who are new to legacy/reading this, LEDless Dredge is just regular Dredge without LED's making it more budget-friendly. Manaless runs entirely differently in terms of card choices and you don't run many spells outside of Dread Return and Cabal Therapy AND you don't run any mana sources whatsoever.
That said, Dredge of all variants do have some "money" cards in them -- Ichorid, Cabal Therapy, Golgari Grave-Troll. Those 3 cards used to be much much cheaper about 1.5-2 years ago. Not terribly expensive but do keep that in mind when building it as a side fun deck, because it might be better to allocate resources to finishing the primary deck you intend to play.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I need some opinions/advice on what I should get into. I've been playing Punishing Nic Fit for a year and a half, but I'm a bit tired of scooping to combo decks. I have no specific love for blue, but I want that color in my deck at least for FoWs and Brainstorms. I tried UR Delver before the bannings of Treasure Cruise. The deck was explosive, but that wasn't exactly my play style; I liked its Grixis version (the one with Dack Fayden and Dig Through Time) much more, but it suffered from bans, too. I'd probably go for some sort of BUG (I currently have one of each nonwhite dual, so the rest of mana base I can borrow or substitute with weaker lands). I love decks that are a bit hard to disrupt, can play "fair", but also have some way of going over-the-top (like Scapeshift in Scape Fit or Food Chain in its latest top8-ings). I already own all the typical blue stuff like Forces, BS, Ponder, Probe, Daze, etc. due to playing UR for some time; plus typical Nic Fit cards like Cabal Therapy, SDT and a pair of Deathrites. My budget is a bit limited (well, like $100-150 now), so I can buy a lot of "small stuff", but I definitely can't afford a playset of Goyfs (nor do I want to play them). Any ideas?
Hmmm it sounds like food chain might be your bet. Seems to hit all the areas your interested in, while not folding to combo, plus the cool synergies the deck has make it a blast to play.
You could always throw together bug walkers, although that might have the same issues of not having a good combo match-up, although this could be slightly remedied post board.
Hmmm it sounds like food chain might be your bet. Seems to hit all the areas your interested in, while not folding to combo, plus the cool synergies the deck has make it a blast to play.
You could always throw together bug walkers, although that might have the same issues of not having a good combo match-up, although this could be slightly remedied post board.
Yeah, and in playtesting, pitching a Griffin to a Misdirection or Force of Will feels great. For that deck I need most of the creatures and some utility spells, so I can definitely afford it. The main question I have is: what are the problems of this deck? I know I can construct the sideboard any way I want, adding gravehate, or Mindbreak Trap/Flusterstorm, more counters, tricks like Elephant Grass not to be overrun by swarm/tribal decks, but any deck has its nemesis. Which matchups should I fear when taking Food Chain to a tournament?
By the way, later I can transform the deck into Shardless BUG or something similar if I get the money for it. Also, what deck do you mean by BUG walkers? Just Lilianas/Jaces supported by value creatures like DRS and Strix?
I need some opinions/advice on what I should get into. I've been playing Punishing Nic Fit for a year and a half, but I'm a bit tired of scooping to combo decks. I have no specific love for blue, but I want that color in my deck at least for FoWs and Brainstorms. I tried UR Delver before the bannings of Treasure Cruise. The deck was explosive, but that wasn't exactly my play style; I liked its Grixis version (the one with Dack Fayden and Dig Through Time) much more, but it suffered from bans, too. I'd probably go for some sort of BUG (I currently have one of each nonwhite dual, so the rest of mana base I can borrow or substitute with weaker lands). I love decks that are a bit hard to disrupt, can play "fair", but also have some way of going over-the-top (like Scapeshift in Scape Fit or Food Chain in its latest top8-ings). I already own all the typical blue stuff like Forces, BS, Ponder, Probe, Daze, etc. due to playing UR for some time; plus typical Nic Fit cards like Cabal Therapy, SDT and a pair of Deathrites. My budget is a bit limited (well, like $100-150 now), so I can buy a lot of "small stuff", but I definitely can't afford a playset of Goyfs (nor do I want to play them). Any ideas?
Hey guys, my LGS offers a Legacy tournament right after their modern tournament on Sundays, which I often attend. They allow as many proxies as you want, so I was thinking of proxying up a legacy deck for it. I'm not quite sure which deck though. Two decks that stuck out to me were B/W Stoneblade and Miracles -- Stoneblade because I love equipment and the color combo B/W, and Miracles because I love that mechanic and I know it's a great deck. However B/W doesn't seem that good right now, and I've heard playing Miracles relies on knowing the Legacy meta well, which I don't know. Any ideas for a first Legacy deck? Price isn't a concern, because proxies, but I want something I could do well with. In modern I play Bogles, which I have had a lot of luck with. Another variant of Stoneblade could work (I know there's a few different ones) but I'm not sure how good they are right now.
Thanks!
Let me explain, as I am an old Affinity player of both Modern & Legacy. The reason why Affinity is so efficient in Modern is because it is really hard for any deck to win before turn 4. In Legacy, to survive before turn 4, you have to have some kind of removal and disruption. Legacy Affinity has none, and on top of it, it does not play a hand. The only deck to successfully play without a hand is Storm so it can use Infernal Tutor. Sure Affinity can kill faster with the Legacy version and is more powerful, but the deck just dies to multiple forms, such as a Elesh Norn reanimated, Terminus Miracled, Force of Wills taking your Cranial Plating. Affinity certain pieces in combination to win, while burn does not.
The reason why burn is competitive in Legacy is all because of Eidilon of the Great Revel. She forces people's hands to remove her otherwise they can kill themselves. The deck is brutally efficient as almost every top card you draw is 3+ damage and has so much removal that it can stop other strategies.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
I'll take a stab at this, though I don't play Modern very much at all. What I do play is Legacy Burn.
Legacy Burn has this weird difference with its Modern variant in that it is not attempting to kill the opponent as quickly as possible. There are loads of faster ways to kill in Legacy. Instead, Legacy Burn functions by invalidating the disruptive elements of control decks. Force of Will is terrible against Chain Lightning, and Thoughtseize doesn't do much either. One might easily resolve both spells against a Burn deck and hardly affect it at all. You might stop some cards that Burn would rather have resolved, but all the cards still do basically the same thing.
Affinity is better than it's given credit for a lot of the time, but in this case its synergistic "win with creatures" style not only runs hard up against the Legacy combo decks, but becomes much more vulnerable to the control elements that Burn ignores. Force of Will or Thoughtseize on Cranial Plating could leave Affinity with a just a pair of smallish robots. Terminus and Counterbalance are unwelcome sights. The other "creature synergy" deck in Legacy, Elves, is a fierce competitor. Even the -1/-1 hate aimed at TNN is relevant.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
The thing is, couple of my friends want's me to start playing Legacy. Before I have been mostly Modern player with goblins, BW tokens and mono-g infect. Then again, there aren't that many Legacy tournaments around where I live. That means I would probably attend Legacy tournaments ~4 times a year.
I am searching for a deck that does not need most expensive cards like Force of Will, dual lands or Lion's Eye Diamond. In addition to this ridiculous demand I don't like to play burn. I know that with my budget (no cards that are over 20€) the probably correct way is to towards unfair decks, such as combo decks. So I proxied manaless dredge deck for playtesting and I felt that even though it was quite consistent on comboing off, it was very vulnerable to graveyard hate. That mean's if I don't combo on turn 2-3, I'm dead. Are there any unfair decks that are able to win and are super budget, or are there any fair creature based decks around that are really cheap?
BRG Griselbrand reanimator, BUR Grixis Control, UR Blue moon (with Possibility Storm sometimes)
Legacy:
BU Reanimator, BU Omni-tell, BUW Tin Fins, BUR ANT / TES, <> Eldrazi Stompy
Might I suggest something crazy? You play Modern Goblins you said? Thought about Legacy Goblins? There is a budget version where you don't need wastelands or ports and is more aggressive. It isn't a top tier deck, but it is fun as hell. I find it more fun than Merfolk which I find sad since I love blue.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Manaless and LED-powered aren't the only two Dredge varieties. Before Faithless Looting was printed the deck ran a somewhat different configuration, and these decks are still rather strong. They have options for playing around hate, and there is no need to just get run over by it.
If Dredge sounds like what you'd like to play, I'd recommend looking into that sort of thing.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Favourite Archetype: I like tempo decks like Delver that are sort of focused goodstuff decks. I think the game plan of landing an early threat and keeping it alive/staying ahead is great. I also like combo control decks where I play a sort of control game for a while and then finish off with some sort of win condition that's difficult to stop, and am less a fan of control decks where I have to work for every point of damage.
Favourite Colour: I'm pretty much blue at heart. I like being able to be reactionary and not so much being all in. For reference in Modern, I've played UW Tron, Twin, UR Delver, and UWR Control primarily.
I've been considering decks like Delver, Miracles, and Sneak and Show. Delver is an archetype I've played in Standard and Modern, and I like it a fair bit. I think I'd lean more towards URx versions of Delver rather than something like a BUG variant. I've also enjoyed Sneak and Show, just dropping huge things into play was always kind of fun. I've had fun in the past playing with Miracles on Cockatrice, but I'm not sure it's the best choice.
One of the main things I want to do is try to find a deck that won't get hated out easily. I don't want to invest 2k or however much into a deck to find out that it's just a bad option for this tournament or meta. I would rather pick a deck that's consistently good and never the best deck rather than a deck that's sometimes really good and sometimes unplayable. That is, I really want my money to go as far as it can and last me as long as it can. It would also be good if there were other decks I could play with reasonably small investments.
I also happen to think Goyf might be a good investment for me because it's a card I'm missing in Modern, and thus using it in both formats seems like win-win to me.
List of staples owned (ps I'm not really open to moving things as I use many of them for Modern):
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Dark Confidant
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Emrakul
4 Goblin Guide
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Clique
4 Snapcaster
4 Probe
4 Young Pyromancer
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
The deck gets you set up on a versatile package of staples and having the volcanics, fetches, and FoWs means that you're also halfway to SneakShow if you feel like expanding your options down the line.
Essentially, UWR makes you bite the bullet on expensive staples early, but it leaves you very open to play almost anything that fits what you've indicated as your interests with minimal further outlay.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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goyf sees rather limited play in legacy, shows up in temur and sultai delver, sultai control, and punishing jund, and sometimes maverick. But from the decks you were interested in legacy nothing really overlapped into goyf territory, except sultai control. That's a solid option, as you get to play jace, fow, and brainstorm along side DRS, shardless agent, and liliana which is fun. It's a solid deck that needs to be played around carefully, but it's a relatively hard deck to pilot, making optimal plays can be kinda tough seeing as how it's far more interactive than something like miracles, which is hard to pilot, but I think you're interacting with yourself and your deck more than the other player.
If you're budget isn't astronomical, I'd say either invest in UR lands because the pairings are tundra for the white splash, and if you go for UB, then the pairing is UG which are equally expensive. and splashing white into UR decks is powerful, but not necessary, unlike going for a UB or UG base where you really need all 3 colors to be effective.
Just going to elaborate a bit on your delver comment for the OP. Sultai and temur delver are very strong, but they are much more a reactive, resource denial style deck. They play goyf, wasteland, thoughtsieze / abrupt decay (in bug) and rug plays counters instead of TS / AD. Of the two, temur delver fits your playstyle a bit more as you play your delver / goyf / TNN and then protect it with counters and wastelands, and win a war of attrition, but if you want aggressive firepower filled deck, UWR is where you wanna be.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
That being said, I'd probably go for Lands. I have quite the sweet spot for the deck and it should do quite a good job of complementing ANT's strengths so as to give you a top competitor regardless of the meta.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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Level 1 Judge
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I recently have been trying and testing MonoU Omni-Tell and have started to really enjoy it. I can easily afford finishing it off ($500) compared to my Reanimator deck ($2000, thanks dual lands...). So with pieces of Reanimator just sitting in a box, I was wondering what deck Iona, Elesh Norn, and Griselbrand can all go into which is not Reanimator? Well I forgot there is Dredge, what seems to be the "true" graveyard deck in my eyes as it also casts spells from the grave as well as resurrecting an army. So here is my question. Should I build LEDless Dredge (I'd grab the LEDs latter on)? Is it just as powerful as Reanimator? Is it worth the money? Since I do seem to love combo most, would I enjoy it? (I've heard a lot of people say dredge is neither combo nor aggro but seems to meld with both)
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Elesh, Iona, and Grisel can probably be ran in Nic Fit or something. Idk, that deck is weird though -- seemingly fun but also seems weird. Also, Iona and Griselbrand are sometimes ran in Dredge (and sometimes LEDless Dredge and Manaless Dredge). Dredge is a pretty solid deck overall. You should proxy it and see how it feels. It's quite fun. I'm not really a dredge player though, so I don't like playing it for long.
LEDlessManaless Dredge IMO is really boring. Idk, it's a really cool deck by design and can be fun the first few times, but I find it can't vary in its lines of plays by its sheer design. It's pretty awkward to play in games 2 and 3 as well. So Idk, not worth IMO.Dredge with LED's, yeah sure, go for it. Can be great if you like that deck style.
LEDlessDredge, budget-friendly, but I'd imagine it being less explosive.
Manaless Dredge -- even more budget-friendly, but IMO miserable after a while, so no I wouldn't go for it. Because you get blown out so easily by grave-hate, awkward side boarding, and simply being forced to go first. Then again though, there are some die-hards who are trying to revolutionize and innovate. All versions can run fatties in the sideboard though. So there's that.
Are you still thinking about building MonoU Omni-Tell?
Yes I am still going to build MonoU Omni-Tell, been enjoying how I can kill through Emrakul and storming my opponent if I need to.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Also, I should edit what I said above. Everything negative I was talking about LEDless Dredge....was actually directed towards Manaless Dredge. Sometimes I mix the two/three up (Quadlaser/LEDDredge, LEDless Dredge, Manaless Dredge). For clarity to those who are new to legacy/reading this, LEDless Dredge is just regular Dredge without LED's making it more budget-friendly. Manaless runs entirely differently in terms of card choices and you don't run many spells outside of Dread Return and Cabal Therapy AND you don't run any mana sources whatsoever.
That said, Dredge of all variants do have some "money" cards in them -- Ichorid, Cabal Therapy, Golgari Grave-Troll. Those 3 cards used to be much much cheaper about 1.5-2 years ago. Not terribly expensive but do keep that in mind when building it as a side fun deck, because it might be better to allocate resources to finishing the primary deck you intend to play.
I need some opinions/advice on what I should get into. I've been playing Punishing Nic Fit for a year and a half, but I'm a bit tired of scooping to combo decks. I have no specific love for blue, but I want that color in my deck at least for FoWs and Brainstorms. I tried UR Delver before the bannings of Treasure Cruise. The deck was explosive, but that wasn't exactly my play style; I liked its Grixis version (the one with Dack Fayden and Dig Through Time) much more, but it suffered from bans, too. I'd probably go for some sort of BUG (I currently have one of each nonwhite dual, so the rest of mana base I can borrow or substitute with weaker lands). I love decks that are a bit hard to disrupt, can play "fair", but also have some way of going over-the-top (like Scapeshift in Scape Fit or Food Chain in its latest top8-ings). I already own all the typical blue stuff like Forces, BS, Ponder, Probe, Daze, etc. due to playing UR for some time; plus typical Nic Fit cards like Cabal Therapy, SDT and a pair of Deathrites. My budget is a bit limited (well, like $100-150 now), so I can buy a lot of "small stuff", but I definitely can't afford a playset of Goyfs (nor do I want to play them). Any ideas?
You could always throw together bug walkers, although that might have the same issues of not having a good combo match-up, although this could be slightly remedied post board.
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
Yeah, and in playtesting, pitching a Griffin to a Misdirection or Force of Will feels great. For that deck I need most of the creatures and some utility spells, so I can definitely afford it. The main question I have is: what are the problems of this deck? I know I can construct the sideboard any way I want, adding gravehate, or Mindbreak Trap/Flusterstorm, more counters, tricks like Elephant Grass not to be overrun by swarm/tribal decks, but any deck has its nemesis. Which matchups should I fear when taking Food Chain to a tournament?
By the way, later I can transform the deck into Shardless BUG or something similar if I get the money for it. Also, what deck do you mean by BUG walkers? Just Lilianas/Jaces supported by value creatures like DRS and Strix?
UB Tezz might be out of your budget and it doesn't play Brainstorm, but you could look into that as well. The Chalice of the Void/Force of Will combination is backbreaking to most combo decks. It's a control deck, but it can do powerful things with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas' ultimate, Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry, and Leyline of the Void/Helm of Obedience in some lists.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Thanks!
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Infect sounds good to me. Is there a primer around for it? I can't find one.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed