I'm looking at moving into Legacy, playing solely on MTGO, after checking budget, preferences, etc, I've come up with the following list of options and would appreciate input on which might be better to take into the always unknown playing field that is MTGO:
Yeah, that is a big part of what prompted the question. I'm aware that the elves would probably the best bet for raw power, but testing it, gave me a slight headache will all the possible options for mana generation. Probably something one gets used to.
If I'm totally honest with myself, the one from the list that would probably best fit my play style would be Dragon Stompy, but I'm concerned that when compared to something like elves it's just not up there with it.
Yeah, that is a big part of what prompted the question. I'm aware that the elves would probably the best bet for raw power, but testing it, gave me a slight headache will all the possible options for mana generation. Probably something one gets used to.
If I'm totally honest with myself, the one from the list that would probably best fit my play style would be Dragon Stompy, but I'm concerned that when compared to something like elves it's just not up there with it.
Did you perhaps consider Imperial Painter? It plays much of the same package as Dragon Stompy, but it comes with built-in extra blue hate and a combo kill that also can steal free wins on its own. Additionally, despite having a lot of finer nuances, they don't tend to overwhelm you when you're trying to pick up the deck like Elves' play can.
Enchantress from your list can be good and the stronger replenish lists box people in in a rather unfair way (calling back similarities to dragon stompy), but the deck is like elves in that there's a ton of triggers and mana math, so if Elves isn't you're thing, I'd also stay away from Enchantress. I will also mention that while Enchantress is very strong in my opinion, it is extremely unforgiving of even the most subtle of sequencing misplays. It's only appropriate as a first deck in the format if you really love that kind of pressure and find it engaging (I happen to be that way, so I actually did enter the format with it, but it was probably close to a year and a half before I was what I would consider competent with the deck).
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I would second Painter. Online it's a good cheap deck since the Recruiters cost nothing. It is by far the deck I enjoy playing the most and it rewards those who will work at it and figure out its little nuances. The other bonus is that the cross over between Stompy and Painter is close enough that the cost of building both is not really going to be that much more than one alone. It gives options to you if you wish to shift between the decks.
Elves on the other hand can be painful. When I put it down for a few weeks, I need to sink about 4 hours into getting back into the rhythm of the deck again and I would like to think of myself as a fairly competent player of Elves. The joy with the deck is how much reward it offers those players who master it. It's very much a three dimensional deck with two different combos, a beat down plan and a toolbox all in the main shell. Add on personal edits and sideboard options and you really can make it your own deck. The other benefit of Elves is that you can start cheep with a mono green build and work your way up from there. Not that I think that matters with Vintage Masters reducing the price of duals and the Fetchlands only just having been reprinted.
Thanks for the help guys. I think that what I'll consider doing is to get Dragon Stompy and then upgrade it to a Painter deck.(the Painter is quite a bit more expensive than the Stompy, or even the full Elves deck).
I have played magic for plenty of years, and now that I am old enough to work and get a salary I am ready for a legacy deck I can master and play every week.
The problem is not the budget, and in fact I already have most of the legacy staples (barring some obscure non-blue duals and tarms which i could just borrow).
I am looking for a deck that is hard to pilot and rewards me for consistent playing with it. I want a deck that is versatile and has a fighting chance against most decks in the metagame. I want a consistent deck that requires minimal mulligans and isn't too reliant on any particular threat. I am not a fan of combo since I enjoy many lines of play rather then just a narrow path to victory such as ANT or OmniTell. In particular I really like cascade effects such as bloodbraid and shardless agent but I am not sure if they are still viable or not in the cruise meta (jund and shardless bug). I have tried death and taxes but feel that the lack of cantrips means that I can run out of gas quite easily. I don't really want to play an overplayed deck like ur delver since the deck has been figured out inside and out. And finally but most importantly, I want a deck that stays with me as the legacy environment grows, not just one that is poised for the current meta.
Decks that I am interested in are jund, shardless bug, bug delver, rug delver, maverick, miracles, and stoneblade. I have proxied most of them and tried them all, but I can't decide what I want to play. Anyone have a good suggestion based on my preferences and can help me out? I have all these legacy cards but can't make a deck I can keep X_X
thanks in advance, and I appreciate the time you took to read this if you got this far
I have played magic for plenty of years, and now that I am old enough to work and get a salary I am ready for a legacy deck I can master and play every week.
The problem is not the budget, and in fact I already have most of the legacy staples (barring some obscure non-blue duals and tarms which i could just borrow).
I am looking for a deck that is hard to pilot and rewards me for consistent playing with it. I want a deck that is versatile and has a fighting chance against most decks in the metagame. I want a consistent deck that requires minimal mulligans and isn't too reliant on any particular threat. I am not a fan of combo since I enjoy many lines of play rather then just a narrow path to victory such as ANT or OmniTell. In particular I really like cascade effects such as bloodbraid and shardless agent but I am not sure if they are still viable or not in the cruise meta (jund and shardless bug). I have tried death and taxes but feel that the lack of cantrips means that I can run out of gas quite easily. I don't really want to play an overplayed deck like ur delver since the deck has been figured out inside and out. And finally but most importantly, I want a deck that stays with me as the legacy environment grows, not just one that is poised for the current meta.
Decks that I am interested in are jund, shardless bug, bug delver, rug delver, maverick, miracles, and stoneblade. I have proxied most of them and tried them all, but I can't decide what I want to play. Anyone have a good suggestion based on my preferences and can help me out? I have all these legacy cards but can't make a deck I can keep X_X
thanks in advance, and I appreciate the time you took to read this if you got this far
Of the decks you list, I think the clear choice is Miracles. Non-blue decks require much more disciplined mulliganing due to the lower library manipulation, so I do not think Jund or Maverick make sense with your constraints. I think that Miracles is the least vulnerable of the remaining decks to shifts in the metagame, and in addition to having some of the greatest returns on skill development of the decks listed above, it also has been very versatile in design, compared to other decks that at times seem almost locked in between just a couple build options (consider how streamlined traditional RUG Delver is. There's not a ton of flex slots to mess around with) -- this means that your experience with the deck will open up more and more things for you to try (compare for example how different Miracles is as piloted by Reid Duke, Philipp Schönegger, and Joe Lossett).
Outside of the decks listed above, I would say there are three decks you might wish to give a try proxied up before locking in.
First is Enchantress -- It's very versatile and has an extremely deep learning curve. Despite having a linear engine, it's a highly non-linear prison deck. It also capitalizes on a mechanic comparable to cascade in that it generates guaranteed value on you casting your spells.
After enchantress, I would say the other two decks to consider are actually combo decks. The reason I mention these two specifically is because they reward non-linear and highly contextualized play, potentially making them fit your desired constraints. Additionally, they share the reputation as the most skill-intensive deck to grace this format:
1. Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils -- This has a reputation as a deck capable of beating absolutely anything with sufficient time, and it is often said that with perfect play DDFT has only good match-ups. Games frequently come down to you attempting to think through a puzzle, and the ability to contort your mind to see things in a brand new way on the spot is a huge part of the deck.
2. Solidarity -- This is a recently revived deck. It's a High Tide variant designed to play entirely at instant speed. The deck is built to create very complex stack wars and often feels like a control deck with the additional "counter" of "kill you". Solidarity is also nice in that if your collection is deep, it may be constructable at little to no outlay (for example: if you build Miracles, you will need at most $90 in acquisitions to have the cards to build Solidarity as well -- very likely much less than that though), making it a reasonable second option if you're interested in two decks.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Hi guys, I need some help deciding which deck to use for my upcoming Legacy League. I have to play the deck I choose for the first 2 matches, and after that I get the opportunity to change. The decks i'm keen to play are as follows:
Any analysis or suggestions are welcome (be it suggestions for choices or changes to the decks themselves), as any little observation could be the spark of inspiration I need to make a decision.
I have played magic for plenty of years, and now that I am old enough to work and get a salary I am ready for a legacy deck I can master and play every week.
The problem is not the budget, and in fact I already have most of the legacy staples (barring some obscure non-blue duals and tarms which i could just borrow).
I am looking for a deck that is hard to pilot and rewards me for consistent playing with it. I want a deck that is versatile and has a fighting chance against most decks in the metagame. I want a consistent deck that requires minimal mulligans and isn't too reliant on any particular threat. I am not a fan of combo since I enjoy many lines of play rather then just a narrow path to victory such as ANT or OmniTell. In particular I really like cascade effects such as bloodbraid and shardless agent but I am not sure if they are still viable or not in the cruise meta (jund and shardless bug). I have tried death and taxes but feel that the lack of cantrips means that I can run out of gas quite easily. I don't really want to play an overplayed deck like ur delver since the deck has been figured out inside and out. And finally but most importantly, I want a deck that stays with me as the legacy environment grows, not just one that is poised for the current meta.
Decks that I am interested in are jund, shardless bug, bug delver, rug delver, maverick, miracles, and stoneblade. I have proxied most of them and tried them all, but I can't decide what I want to play. Anyone have a good suggestion based on my preferences and can help me out? I have all these legacy cards but can't make a deck I can keep X_X
thanks in advance, and I appreciate the time you took to read this if you got this far
Dreamer, I too have been playing for a long time. Over 20 years. I like Rascals' suggestions. I would personally go with Miracles. It's a very flexible deck and having gone up against it yesterday (twice) I can tell you that it's frustrating to play against once you get the soft lock in place.
You might want to try both the more traditional and RIP/Helm or RIP/Energy Field variants. EF gives you plenty of time to dig for your win cons.
Doomsday, while I love the deck, is very difficult to play at first. You'll have to practice with it a lot to get comfortable with it.
Enchantress is also a lot of fun but I don't feel it's as competitive as other decks. You hardly see it placing anywhere.
Solidarity is a good choice. One thing I personally like about it is that it allows you to wait until just before you're about to be killed to go off. You only need 3 lands to theoretically go off so a turn 3 kill is possible. Key cards for going off are Snapcaster Mage, High Tide and Reset. If you have those 3 cards in your hand and 3 lands in play, you can go off. The sequence is as follows.
1) Cast High Tide
2) Cast Snapcaster Mage targeting High Tide.
3) Cast Reset.
As you draw through your deck, the sequence of spells is very important. If you manage to draw another High Tide and a snap, you can cast the 2nd High Tide, Snap the Mage back into your hand and then recast and flash back High Tide. You've effectively cast 4 High Tide off of just 2 of them.
You can generate stupid amounts of mana with this deck and actually Blue Sun them for game though Brain Freeze is easier.
Problem with Brain Freeze is that against Emrakul, it becomes a little harder. You need to resolve each Brain Freeze storm one at a time. Once you hit an Emrakul, play Cunning Wish for Surgical and remove all the Emrakuls from their deck. They will still get the shuffle of their graveyard back into their library but now you can continue play until you either get another Snapcaster or another Snap to snap him back and replay Brain Freeze for game.
The deck rewards skillful play and because it wins on the opponent's turn, you can wait until the lethal attack on their end to go off. That is the beauty of this deck.
I play a lot of decks in Legacy but this one is one of my favorites. I enjoy Spiral Tide as well but this one I think is just a little bit more fun even though I have yet to play it competitively yet. My Resets and a couple of other cards are coming in the mail so I won't have to proxy this bad boy.
And it is a relatively cheap deck to put together. The Resets can be had for as little as $12 to $15 if you get the Italian Legends ones. The English can go as high as $20 a pop. You do not need Candelabras for this deck, which is a good thing because at about $350 a pop, they are not very affordable.
Another deck you might enjoy playing, though it is very expensive, is Lands. It has been putting up some very impressive results of late.
@LBS: I think you are greatly oversimplifying the way that Solidarity combos and overstating what it needs to be able to do so, but that's a discussion for another thread
I do agree however that Lands is an excellent choice as well though. It can have a rough time with combo, but that's true of most non-blue fair decks (including D&T, depending on the opposing combo deck) and it's addressable with careful sideboard construction (see Sparki's list that he used to Top8 SCG Oakland 2014). If you consider Lands though, you will want to be looking at the 4-5 colour lists, not the R/G builds, since the R/G lists get significantly more linear as they focus more heavily on assembling depths.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I like aggro and mostly mono red aggro. (Burn IS NOT AN AGGRO DECK I hate when people refer to it as such because it isn't. Its heart is not turning guys sideways it is bolting to the face which isn't what I enjoy. So again please don't tell me to play burn. Even though I do already own all of the cards for it) I also own the entirety of dredge. The mana kind with LEDS.
I despise the color blue. Like a lot. Delver is my most hated card in the game.
I own DRS, SFM, Thoughtseize, All KTK fetches, All Shocks, all Fast lands, Iok, Bolts, snapcasters, brainstorms, ponders, StP, PoE, Helix, Batterksull, Jitte, LEDS (Hate combo and trying to get rid of them) and probably some other random stuff.
I'm not on a major budget but I would prefer to not have to spend for Force of wills or Blue Duals or a playset of Traitors or Karakas.
Can anyone help me with what I might like to play in Legacy? Mind you I want to play a competitive deck but I understand that is really hard with not wanting to run blue.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Your deck is a disaster. It has no plan, no focus, no clear strategy, and half the cards hate each other.
I like aggro and mostly mono red aggro. (Burn IS NOT AN AGGRO DECK I hate when people refer to it as such because it isn't. Its heart is not turning guys sideways it is bolting to the face which isn't what I enjoy. So again please don't tell me to play burn. Even though I do already own all of the cards for it) I also own the entirety of dredge. The mana kind with LEDS.
I despise the color blue. Like a lot. Delver is my most hated card in the game.
I own DRS, SFM, Thoughtseize, All KTK fetches, All Shocks, all Fast lands, Iok, Bolts, snapcasters, brainstorms, ponders, StP, PoE, Helix, Batterksull, Jitte, LEDS (Hate combo and trying to get rid of them) and probably some other random stuff.
I'm not on a major budget but I would prefer to not have to spend for Force of wills or Blue Duals or a playset of Traitors or Karakas.
Can anyone help me with what I might like to play in Legacy? Mind you I want to play a competitive deck but I understand that is really hard with not wanting to run blue.
While blue is definitely the dominant colour in Legacy (and one that I personally happen to enjoy), it's definitely not required to be competitive. I will say that most of the non-blue decks seem to position themselves more on the controlling or midrange end of the spectrum than aggro, but there are still options to work with. I suppose it's worth asking as well if you're looking to skirt blue entirely or if there is a specific aspect of blue leaving this bad taste in your mouth and that other approaches might be okay if they skirt that aspect (for example, I had a friend play blue in his Zoo deck in Modern to power up Tribal Flames and gain Unstable Mutation, but I wouldn't say he was playing a "blue" deck per se).
Anyway, the first deck I would recommend for you is Deadguy Ale. It's a B/W aggressive shell backed up by strong discard to keep the opponent off balance. You would likely need to try to convert those LEDs into Dark Confidants, but Confidants and Scrublands are probably the only money in the deck that you're missing.
I will mention Zoo next. I personally do not really consider Zoo to be a good choice, but it's not incapable of doing well (for example: this tournament report). My recommendation is to avoid it or at least acknowledge in advance that you're going to be forging your own way because the deck hasn't been a force in the metagame for awhile, so you'd be charting the course yourself.
Maverick and Jund are both options on the slightly pricier end of the spectrum. I may be misinterpreting your intentions when you say "aggro", but my read is that these are probably not what you're looking for. Both are very grindy decks that are not typically shooting to be the beatdown.
Past that, I think we start edging back into blue for something like oldschool U/R Delver (yes, I realize that this is a dealbreaker as it manages to combine Burn and Delver of Secrets into one entity), Merfolk, Infect, or revitalizing awkward 1-hit wonders like Blouses.
All in all, I think Deadguy Ale is what you're looking for if you're hoping for something tried and true.
EDIT:
I had totally forgotten this, but Affinity is an option as well. I'm afraid I'm not much of a resource when it comes to advising you on this deck though, since it's not one I'm very familiar with in Legacy anymore, but the last I saw it, it was packing the sol lands alongside gaea's cradle to get even more explosive. This is probably the deck I'd direct you to after Deadguy Ale.
EDIT EDIT: You could also run Soldiers if you're feeling especially trollish. I kinda have trouble recommending it (and taking it seriously, for that matter), but at the same time, I've seen it tear people apart. Not really sure how far off the deep end you're willing to go.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I'd like to also point out Death and Taxes. It's a mono-white creature deck that plays to disrupt opponents via taxing effects like Rishadan Port + Wasteland, while whittling away their life with strong weeenie resilient hate-bears like Thalia and Mother of Runes. Its win condition is turning creatures sideways.
It can aggro, but it plays the grind game really well and that's where its true power lies; however, because of this, if you're looking for a straight rush-down aggro deck, this might not be the deck for you.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I'd like to also point out Death and Taxes. It's a mono-white creature deck that plays to disrupt opponents via taxing effects like Rishadan Port + Wasteland, while whittling away their life with strong weeenie resilient hate-bears like Thalia and Mother of Runes. Its win condition is turning creatures sideways.
It can aggro, but it plays the grind game really well and that's where its true power lies; however, because of this, if you're looking for a straight rush-down aggro deck, this might not be the deck for you.
I do agree that D&T is very strong as a creature deck in this format, but I think it's not a good option for an "aggro" deck. It's very much a control deck in construction, strategy, and gameplay. If piloted like an aggro deck trying to maximize damage, D&T typically loses very quickly.
@FCE: if you're okay with more controlling or prison creature-based approaches, D&T is very strong (and by extension, Jund and Maverick jump up on my recommendation list). If on the other hand you're hard set on aggressive decks, I think you're better off looking elsewhere (see my previous post)
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Hi guys, I need some help deciding which deck to use for my upcoming Legacy League. I have to play the deck I choose for the first 2 matches, and after that I get the opportunity to change. The decks i'm keen to play are as follows:
Any analysis or suggestions are welcome (be it suggestions for choices or changes to the decks themselves), as any little observation could be the spark of inspiration I need to make a decision.
Cheers,
Henge
I always go with playing the deck you have the most experience with and enjoy the most, both for winning and fun purposes, so I'd go with BG Loam Pox, unless you're tired of it of course
If that's not a factor, I'd give the nod to RG Lands as having the best shot right now. Of course, that's highly dependent on what other decks show up and all that.
I like aggro and mostly mono red aggro. (Burn IS NOT AN AGGRO DECK I hate when people refer to it as such because it isn't. Its heart is not turning guys sideways it is bolting to the face which isn't what I enjoy. So again please don't tell me to play burn. Even though I do already own all of the cards for it) I also own the entirety of dredge. The mana kind with LEDS.
I despise the color blue. Like a lot. Delver is my most hated card in the game.
I own DRS, SFM, Thoughtseize, All KTK fetches, All Shocks, all Fast lands, Iok, Bolts, snapcasters, brainstorms, ponders, StP, PoE, Helix, Batterksull, Jitte, LEDS (Hate combo and trying to get rid of them) and probably some other random stuff.
I'm not on a major budget but I would prefer to not have to spend for Force of wills or Blue Duals or a playset of Traitors or Karakas.
Can anyone help me with what I might like to play in Legacy? Mind you I want to play a competitive deck but I understand that is really hard with not wanting to run blue.
Yeah, I didn't suggest Death and Taxes because of the desire not to buy Karakas (not to mention playsets of Rishadan Port and Wasteland).
If you already have the SFM package, some fetches and modern black discard staples, you're basically a set of Dark Confidant away from Deadguy Ale running shocks in place of duals. You could start with something like this list and do some land substitution(http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/100866).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy: WRDeath and Taxes UWRMiracles UBTezzerator GTrinity GBWRLoam URLandstill
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Enchantress is also a lot of fun but I don't feel it's as competitive as other decks. You hardly see it placing anywhere.
It's actually having a bit of a renaissance Using 6 round tournaments as a minimum, Enchantress had a steep drop-off in 2013 compared to 2012, with 4 placings compared to 22, and then none in 2014 until November, but just in November, it's had 3.
I've played plenty of Magic the Gathering by now, mostly casual. Some of my friends are into Legacy and I've never played it that much other than Burn and budget version of existing decks.
I would really like to make a deck that would suit my playstyle. I enjoy grindy control a lot and hard to master decks.
The thing is, I do not have the will to spend thousands of dollars into Jaces, Force of Wills, Wastelands and Tarmogoyfs.
I am willing to spend around 500$ dollars for the deck considering I already have a few cards that could be used in a few legacy decks.
I have looked at many interesting decks already but I can't decide at all. Enchantress, Nic Fit, Pox, Stax (and some others) are all archetypes that hit my eye.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the poor english, I am not native.
Spam warning issued for "what should I play/buy/get into?" discussion outside official thread. Thread merged into official thread.
- Teia
I have played all of those decks and I personally enjoy Nic Fit the most and think it's the best overall. That said it has a lot of variants that can have sometimes very different gameplans. Pox and Stax have variants as well, but with Nic Fit I feel there is a lot more flexibility. It just doesn't really have a prototypical list outside Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy. You can splash White, Red, Blue, or neither and even after splashing you have a lot of flexibility.
It's definitely one of the more entertaining decks to play for both you and your opponent (unlike Pox and Stax which just make someone cry or don't work).
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Combo Elves
NO Elves
AIR (Dragon Stompy)
Enchantress
Manaless Dredge
This BUG Delver deck : http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/124476#
Thanks for any help!
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Yeah, that is a big part of what prompted the question. I'm aware that the elves would probably the best bet for raw power, but testing it, gave me a slight headache will all the possible options for mana generation. Probably something one gets used to.
If I'm totally honest with myself, the one from the list that would probably best fit my play style would be Dragon Stompy, but I'm concerned that when compared to something like elves it's just not up there with it.
Did you perhaps consider Imperial Painter? It plays much of the same package as Dragon Stompy, but it comes with built-in extra blue hate and a combo kill that also can steal free wins on its own. Additionally, despite having a lot of finer nuances, they don't tend to overwhelm you when you're trying to pick up the deck like Elves' play can.
Enchantress from your list can be good and the stronger replenish lists box people in in a rather unfair way (calling back similarities to dragon stompy), but the deck is like elves in that there's a ton of triggers and mana math, so if Elves isn't you're thing, I'd also stay away from Enchantress. I will also mention that while Enchantress is very strong in my opinion, it is extremely unforgiving of even the most subtle of sequencing misplays. It's only appropriate as a first deck in the format if you really love that kind of pressure and find it engaging (I happen to be that way, so I actually did enter the format with it, but it was probably close to a year and a half before I was what I would consider competent with the deck).
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Elves on the other hand can be painful. When I put it down for a few weeks, I need to sink about 4 hours into getting back into the rhythm of the deck again and I would like to think of myself as a fairly competent player of Elves. The joy with the deck is how much reward it offers those players who master it. It's very much a three dimensional deck with two different combos, a beat down plan and a toolbox all in the main shell. Add on personal edits and sideboard options and you really can make it your own deck. The other benefit of Elves is that you can start cheep with a mono green build and work your way up from there. Not that I think that matters with Vintage Masters reducing the price of duals and the Fetchlands only just having been reprinted.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Thanks again.
I have played magic for plenty of years, and now that I am old enough to work and get a salary I am ready for a legacy deck I can master and play every week.
The problem is not the budget, and in fact I already have most of the legacy staples (barring some obscure non-blue duals and tarms which i could just borrow).
I am looking for a deck that is hard to pilot and rewards me for consistent playing with it. I want a deck that is versatile and has a fighting chance against most decks in the metagame. I want a consistent deck that requires minimal mulligans and isn't too reliant on any particular threat. I am not a fan of combo since I enjoy many lines of play rather then just a narrow path to victory such as ANT or OmniTell. In particular I really like cascade effects such as bloodbraid and shardless agent but I am not sure if they are still viable or not in the cruise meta (jund and shardless bug). I have tried death and taxes but feel that the lack of cantrips means that I can run out of gas quite easily. I don't really want to play an overplayed deck like ur delver since the deck has been figured out inside and out. And finally but most importantly, I want a deck that stays with me as the legacy environment grows, not just one that is poised for the current meta.
Decks that I am interested in are jund, shardless bug, bug delver, rug delver, maverick, miracles, and stoneblade. I have proxied most of them and tried them all, but I can't decide what I want to play. Anyone have a good suggestion based on my preferences and can help me out? I have all these legacy cards but can't make a deck I can keep X_X
thanks in advance, and I appreciate the time you took to read this if you got this far
Of the decks you list, I think the clear choice is Miracles. Non-blue decks require much more disciplined mulliganing due to the lower library manipulation, so I do not think Jund or Maverick make sense with your constraints. I think that Miracles is the least vulnerable of the remaining decks to shifts in the metagame, and in addition to having some of the greatest returns on skill development of the decks listed above, it also has been very versatile in design, compared to other decks that at times seem almost locked in between just a couple build options (consider how streamlined traditional RUG Delver is. There's not a ton of flex slots to mess around with) -- this means that your experience with the deck will open up more and more things for you to try (compare for example how different Miracles is as piloted by Reid Duke, Philipp Schönegger, and Joe Lossett).
Outside of the decks listed above, I would say there are three decks you might wish to give a try proxied up before locking in.
First is Enchantress -- It's very versatile and has an extremely deep learning curve. Despite having a linear engine, it's a highly non-linear prison deck. It also capitalizes on a mechanic comparable to cascade in that it generates guaranteed value on you casting your spells.
After enchantress, I would say the other two decks to consider are actually combo decks. The reason I mention these two specifically is because they reward non-linear and highly contextualized play, potentially making them fit your desired constraints. Additionally, they share the reputation as the most skill-intensive deck to grace this format:
1. Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils -- This has a reputation as a deck capable of beating absolutely anything with sufficient time, and it is often said that with perfect play DDFT has only good match-ups. Games frequently come down to you attempting to think through a puzzle, and the ability to contort your mind to see things in a brand new way on the spot is a huge part of the deck.
2. Solidarity -- This is a recently revived deck. It's a High Tide variant designed to play entirely at instant speed. The deck is built to create very complex stack wars and often feels like a control deck with the additional "counter" of "kill you". Solidarity is also nice in that if your collection is deep, it may be constructable at little to no outlay (for example: if you build Miracles, you will need at most $90 in acquisitions to have the cards to build Solidarity as well -- very likely much less than that though), making it a reasonable second option if you're interested in two decks.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Life from the Loam
4 Living Wish
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Sylvan Library
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Barren Moor
3 Bayou
1 Cabal Pit
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
This is my usual deck, but i'm having trouble nailing down a final list, which tempts me to try out something new.
3 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
Land:
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Zuran Orb
2 Choke
1 Seismic Assault
1 Karakas
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thragtusk
2 Veteran Explorer
Spells:
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Toxic Deluge
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Windswept Heath
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Duress
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Humility
2 Pernicious Deed
This deck could use some reworking, as I want to add in some Primeval Titan and Titania, Protector of Argoth shenanigans.
Any analysis or suggestions are welcome (be it suggestions for choices or changes to the decks themselves), as any little observation could be the spark of inspiration I need to make a decision.
Cheers,
Henge
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
Dreamer, I too have been playing for a long time. Over 20 years. I like Rascals' suggestions. I would personally go with Miracles. It's a very flexible deck and having gone up against it yesterday (twice) I can tell you that it's frustrating to play against once you get the soft lock in place.
You might want to try both the more traditional and RIP/Helm or RIP/Energy Field variants. EF gives you plenty of time to dig for your win cons.
Doomsday, while I love the deck, is very difficult to play at first. You'll have to practice with it a lot to get comfortable with it.
Enchantress is also a lot of fun but I don't feel it's as competitive as other decks. You hardly see it placing anywhere.
Solidarity is a good choice. One thing I personally like about it is that it allows you to wait until just before you're about to be killed to go off. You only need 3 lands to theoretically go off so a turn 3 kill is possible. Key cards for going off are Snapcaster Mage, High Tide and Reset. If you have those 3 cards in your hand and 3 lands in play, you can go off. The sequence is as follows.
1) Cast High Tide
2) Cast Snapcaster Mage targeting High Tide.
3) Cast Reset.
As you draw through your deck, the sequence of spells is very important. If you manage to draw another High Tide and a snap, you can cast the 2nd High Tide, Snap the Mage back into your hand and then recast and flash back High Tide. You've effectively cast 4 High Tide off of just 2 of them.
You can generate stupid amounts of mana with this deck and actually Blue Sun them for game though Brain Freeze is easier.
Problem with Brain Freeze is that against Emrakul, it becomes a little harder. You need to resolve each Brain Freeze storm one at a time. Once you hit an Emrakul, play Cunning Wish for Surgical and remove all the Emrakuls from their deck. They will still get the shuffle of their graveyard back into their library but now you can continue play until you either get another Snapcaster or another Snap to snap him back and replay Brain Freeze for game.
The deck rewards skillful play and because it wins on the opponent's turn, you can wait until the lethal attack on their end to go off. That is the beauty of this deck.
I play a lot of decks in Legacy but this one is one of my favorites. I enjoy Spiral Tide as well but this one I think is just a little bit more fun even though I have yet to play it competitively yet. My Resets and a couple of other cards are coming in the mail so I won't have to proxy this bad boy.
And it is a relatively cheap deck to put together. The Resets can be had for as little as $12 to $15 if you get the Italian Legends ones. The English can go as high as $20 a pop. You do not need Candelabras for this deck, which is a good thing because at about $350 a pop, they are not very affordable.
Another deck you might enjoy playing, though it is very expensive, is Lands. It has been putting up some very impressive results of late.
Anyway, hope this helps.
I do agree however that Lands is an excellent choice as well though. It can have a rough time with combo, but that's true of most non-blue fair decks (including D&T, depending on the opposing combo deck) and it's addressable with careful sideboard construction (see Sparki's list that he used to Top8 SCG Oakland 2014). If you consider Lands though, you will want to be looking at the 4-5 colour lists, not the R/G builds, since the R/G lists get significantly more linear as they focus more heavily on assembling depths.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
I despise the color blue. Like a lot. Delver is my most hated card in the game.
I own DRS, SFM, Thoughtseize, All KTK fetches, All Shocks, all Fast lands, Iok, Bolts, snapcasters, brainstorms, ponders, StP, PoE, Helix, Batterksull, Jitte, LEDS (Hate combo and trying to get rid of them) and probably some other random stuff.
I'm not on a major budget but I would prefer to not have to spend for Force of wills or Blue Duals or a playset of Traitors or Karakas.
Can anyone help me with what I might like to play in Legacy? Mind you I want to play a competitive deck but I understand that is really hard with not wanting to run blue.
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
While blue is definitely the dominant colour in Legacy (and one that I personally happen to enjoy), it's definitely not required to be competitive. I will say that most of the non-blue decks seem to position themselves more on the controlling or midrange end of the spectrum than aggro, but there are still options to work with. I suppose it's worth asking as well if you're looking to skirt blue entirely or if there is a specific aspect of blue leaving this bad taste in your mouth and that other approaches might be okay if they skirt that aspect (for example, I had a friend play blue in his Zoo deck in Modern to power up Tribal Flames and gain Unstable Mutation, but I wouldn't say he was playing a "blue" deck per se).
Anyway, the first deck I would recommend for you is Deadguy Ale. It's a B/W aggressive shell backed up by strong discard to keep the opponent off balance. You would likely need to try to convert those LEDs into Dark Confidants, but Confidants and Scrublands are probably the only money in the deck that you're missing.
I will mention Zoo next. I personally do not really consider Zoo to be a good choice, but it's not incapable of doing well (for example: this tournament report). My recommendation is to avoid it or at least acknowledge in advance that you're going to be forging your own way because the deck hasn't been a force in the metagame for awhile, so you'd be charting the course yourself.
Maverick and Jund are both options on the slightly pricier end of the spectrum. I may be misinterpreting your intentions when you say "aggro", but my read is that these are probably not what you're looking for. Both are very grindy decks that are not typically shooting to be the beatdown.
Past that, I think we start edging back into blue for something like oldschool U/R Delver (yes, I realize that this is a dealbreaker as it manages to combine Burn and Delver of Secrets into one entity), Merfolk, Infect, or revitalizing awkward 1-hit wonders like Blouses.
All in all, I think Deadguy Ale is what you're looking for if you're hoping for something tried and true.
EDIT:
I had totally forgotten this, but Affinity is an option as well. I'm afraid I'm not much of a resource when it comes to advising you on this deck though, since it's not one I'm very familiar with in Legacy anymore, but the last I saw it, it was packing the sol lands alongside gaea's cradle to get even more explosive. This is probably the deck I'd direct you to after Deadguy Ale.
EDIT EDIT: You could also run Soldiers if you're feeling especially trollish. I kinda have trouble recommending it (and taking it seriously, for that matter), but at the same time, I've seen it tear people apart. Not really sure how far off the deep end you're willing to go.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
It can aggro, but it plays the grind game really well and that's where its true power lies; however, because of this, if you're looking for a straight rush-down aggro deck, this might not be the deck for you.
I do agree that D&T is very strong as a creature deck in this format, but I think it's not a good option for an "aggro" deck. It's very much a control deck in construction, strategy, and gameplay. If piloted like an aggro deck trying to maximize damage, D&T typically loses very quickly.
@FCE: if you're okay with more controlling or prison creature-based approaches, D&T is very strong (and by extension, Jund and Maverick jump up on my recommendation list). If on the other hand you're hard set on aggressive decks, I think you're better off looking elsewhere (see my previous post)
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
If that's not a factor, I'd give the nod to RG Lands as having the best shot right now. Of course, that's highly dependent on what other decks show up and all that.
Gobbos!
AKA Goblins
Edit: Or something like this.
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl
Instants
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
Lands
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
2 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Path to Exile
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Oblivion Ring
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
If you already have the SFM package, some fetches and modern black discard staples, you're basically a set of Dark Confidant away from Deadguy Ale running shocks in place of duals. You could start with something like this list and do some land substitution(http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/100866).
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
It's actually having a bit of a renaissance Using 6 round tournaments as a minimum, Enchantress had a steep drop-off in 2013 compared to 2012, with 4 placings compared to 22, and then none in 2014 until November, but just in November, it's had 3.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15212&iddeck=112888
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15476&iddeck=115064
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15378&iddeck=114227
An Enchantress deck also made Day 2 at Grand Prix New Jersey.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
I've played plenty of Magic the Gathering by now, mostly casual. Some of my friends are into Legacy and I've never played it that much other than Burn and budget version of existing decks.
I would really like to make a deck that would suit my playstyle. I enjoy grindy control a lot and hard to master decks.
The thing is, I do not have the will to spend thousands of dollars into Jaces, Force of Wills, Wastelands and Tarmogoyfs.
I am willing to spend around 500$ dollars for the deck considering I already have a few cards that could be used in a few legacy decks.
I have looked at many interesting decks already but I can't decide at all. Enchantress, Nic Fit, Pox, Stax (and some others) are all archetypes that hit my eye.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the poor english, I am not native.
Spam warning issued for "what should I play/buy/get into?" discussion outside official thread. Thread merged into official thread.
- Teia
It's definitely one of the more entertaining decks to play for both you and your opponent (unlike Pox and Stax which just make someone cry or don't work).
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
EDIT: Just saw the budget. Mono black discard pox.