I have posted zero videos of it so far. We did stream over the weekend but apparently there where some files corrupted but all that means is that there should be videos up eventually.
@zapatoo 12 post is probably the closest mono green deck that is out there now. Otherwise I usually also suggest trinity green which is an old deck and would need some updates.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
So I love equipment and I just recently got play sets of stone forge mystic and aether vial. What is the best deck for me? I own 1 of each fetch and have playsts of arid Mesa and verdant catacombs. From my research I'm leaning toward BW stone blade or death and taxes
My gut says Death & Taxes, since you love equipment, and you'll get to play Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice in one deck. I'd proxy them and see what feels right, though. There've been decks that I thought I'd like, that bored me when I messed around with them, and decks that didn't catch my eye, that I loved once I played them.
So I'm thinking about maybe getting a deck for legacy. How is the merfolk deck? Strong? Weak? Easy to play or hard? Will I get bored with it quickly if it's very linear. I'm mainly about merfolk since I can use it to play in modern as well as there's a fair bit of overlap but is it just better to get another legacy deck (budget would be around what merfolk costs I guess).
People around here play death and taxes, uwr delver, elves, goblins, affinity, burn and dredge so what's a good choice for that and how is merfolks matchups against each of these decks.
Merfolk is pretty meh right now. It is not horrible, but not amazing. It is a fairly easy deck to pilot and unfortunately pretty linear. Basically the only chance for very skilled/"interesting" revolve around vial tricks, which granted can be quiet complicated and take a long time master so if that does it for you you will probably like the deck. It is certainly no less interesting of a deck than it is in modern.
However, it does not sound like a great deck for that meta. Basically all of those decks you mentioned are pretty rough matchups. In legacy Merfolk does best against combo, and non-red, blue based decks (like BUG delver, esper stoneblade, or miracles).
Your meta sounds like a lot of decks featuring quick, cheap low toughness threats. Not many big creatures like goyfs or combo decks to have to get through. Jund would actually be amazing there I think. All those matchups are easy wins for it. That said, jund is DEFINITELY not a budget a deck. However, if you are interested in modern as well there only difference between the decks are a 4-6 duals, DRS/BBE :D, 2-4 wasteland, grove of the burnwillows and hymn to tourach. And as far as I know Jund is still a good deck in modern and easily one of the best decks in legacy as well. It is fun, super powerful, very interactive and doesn't have unwinnable matchups.
Hi there Salvation, I recently sold out of standard (yesterday in fact)
I picked up an underground sea and a tropical island with all of my credit.
I also already some of the Bug value creatures (shardless agent, strix ect) but I'm a combo player at heart.
Is there anything else that I could build towards besides Aluren? Or did I accidently shoehole myself into buying recruiters?
Hi there Salvation, I recently sold out of standard (yesterday in fact)
I picked up an underground sea and a tropical island with all of my credit.
I also already some of the Bug value creatures (shardless agent, strix ect) but I'm a combo player at heart.
Is there anything else that I could build towards besides Aluren? Or did I accidently shoehole myself into buying recruiters?
TES needs another sea and a volcanic island IIRC, and it plays tropical in the sideboard along with abrupt decays.
It would require you to buy fetchlands and Lion's eye diamonds too.
You could also try to build ANT by trading the tropical towards another sea.
Food chain is similar in concept to aluren in that it is a bug creature based combo deck.
The great thing about staples like duals is that you are never "locked in" just about any legacy player would be willing to trade for an underground sea. You could easily trade those duals for other legacy cards you might need for a different deck. If your a combo player, TES might be the way to go. For a blue/black legacy deck it is relatively inexpensive, only needing 3 duals, 3 fetches, 4 LEDs and then a bunch of 1-15$ cards.
Hi there Salvation, I recently sold out of standard (yesterday in fact)
I picked up an underground sea and a tropical island with all of my credit.
I also already some of the Bug value creatures (shardless agent, strix ect) but I'm a combo player at heart.
Is there anything else that I could build towards besides Aluren? Or did I accidently shoehole myself into buying recruiters?
My only advice regarding Recruiters is that it's a very narrow staple card. It essentially goes in 1 major deck (Painter's Stone) and a few minor decks, such as Aluren. For the pricetag, you can pick a plethora of other staples that can be used in various decks.
Buying blue duals will never trap you into playing a single deck. They're always going to be a good pickup if you're looking to build your collection of staples for various decks.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Right after the Easter, me and my friends are going to a neighbouring city to a tournament. Prizes are, for top 4, playsets of ravnica Remands, Alara Reborn M. Pulses, FTV20 Hymn, and so on. Since I know what decks I'm expecting, I can't decide which deck should I play that day. I have a variety of collection of cards for Junk, Rock, Tokens, Pox, Nic Fic, and Death and Taxes (without Taxes, since I can't afford Rishadan Ports). My meta is: Jund, Oops! All spells, Belcher, Dredge, Merfolk, Rock, Tokens, Reanimator, Pox (more like MonoB hate deck), Tendrils and combo elves.
So guys...what do you think which deck would be the most successful one against all of them? Thank you very much in advance!
You're going to need force of wills or fast counters to beat the fast combo decks.
That being said, out of the decks you have, I'd probably choost Death and Taxes as it has the best combo matchup with thalia and the like.
Mindbreak Trap can be added to almost any sideboard to help out with fast combo. That's what DnT generally plays when it expects Belchers. Pithing Needle is also useful.
I think DnT is a good call for that meta as well, assuming one brings enough Mindbreaks the only truly hard matchups will be Jund and Elves.
I am nearly done buying up my Enchantress deck and am already looking ahead at what to do next. The issue, of course, is more budget than anything else. My entire Enchantress cost me about $550 over the course of half a year. I have no issues taking my time to put together my next Legacy deck, but choosing something that is price practical and that appeals to me is hard. A few decks I flat out dislike are S&T, Miracles and Dredge. I really like pillow fort and board lock strategies. I have considered Pox in the past, but given the price of Chains (a card I like to much to not include) that one became a non-option quickly. This time around I would be willing to spend a bit more, probably up to the $650-750 range. One other thing, given I see a lot of non-basic hate locally I like decks that run more basics than usual.
I've been tinkering around with a different win-con for Parfait, though it's still in the initial stages. I'm much more into the Rube Goldberg machine style than the RiP/Helm instakill version offers. I'm envisioning a hilarious board state of Blind Obedience, Solitary Confinement, and an Isochron Scepter with Argivian Find imprinted on it. Other possibilities include Trading Posting a million Goat tokens into play with Humility out. What's more, since you can't really deck yourself, you can always just try to assemble the most epic "board state that goes through a lot of triggers and activated abilities but doesn't ultimately actually do anything" until your opponent runs out of cards. Obviously not what you want to go for in a timed event, but just knowing that you could is satisfying enough.
Looking at Parfait, only issue there is the primary win condition is the same as my Enchantress. Nothing wrong with that, just a little boring.
Parfait is really only landtax + scroll rack. That combination can be taken many many different ways, it was even used in aggro decks back in the day. You can build it however you want.
The reason it's not very big is that there aren't many people driving the deck. There are so many ways you can go with it that it becomes difficult to really start.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
I am nearly done buying up my Enchantress deck and am already looking ahead at what to do next. The issue, of course, is more budget than anything else. My entire Enchantress cost me about $550 over the course of half a year. I have no issues taking my time to put together my next Legacy deck, but choosing something that is price practical and that appeals to me is hard. A few decks I flat out dislike are S&T, Miracles and Dredge. I really like pillow fort and board lock strategies. I have considered Pox in the past, but given the price of Chains (a card I like to much to not include) that one became a non-option quickly. This time around I would be willing to spend a bit more, probably up to the $650-750 range. One other thing, given I see a lot of non-basic hate locally I like decks that run more basics than usual.
You might like Metalworker. There are definitely colorless MUD versions running around and doing very well without Wasteland. City of Traitors is the only card that's really annoying to acquire.
Once you've got the Sol lands, there's a lot that can be done with them.
UW stoneblade control is going to be the cheapest, easiest to learn and best version of those decks you can make. Any top/miracle deck NEEDS 9-12 fetches, the deck cannot function effectively without them. UW stoneblade, you can get away with running ponders/preordains and other lands instead of fetches/duals and brainstorms. I would not worry about splashing a color yet. There is no effective way to do that until you get 8-10 fetchlands.
Also, I'm going to quote what I said in your other thread because it still holds true:
There is really no substitute for LED, other than playing fetchland tendrils (a different deck entirely).
However, for a deck like UW stoneblade or miracles, as someone who plays that archtype more anything, I think the cost-to-usefulness FoW is probably the lowest compared to any other card in the deck. Buy at least some of the fetches and duals before FoW. You side FoW out 70% of games and really only want to see against combo decks. And they are obviously good against combo decks, but having more counterspells, spell pierces and hatebears can compensate pretty well for the absence of FoW. Gitaxian probe helps make this work better. You can know if its ok to tap out to play a SFM, or if you should hold back counterspell and helps you time your supreme verdicts correctly.
The issue with the list you posted is that delver is not very good in it since there are only 22 instants/sorceries, brainstorm is usually worse than portent without fetchlands, and daze loses its power without a fetches/duals manabase.
If you want a UW stoneblade type deck on a budget I would play something more similar to this 1st place open SCG winning list. The key with budget decks though, is to not just look at good non-budget list and replace all the expensive cards with cheaper ones, you have to make a list from the ground up that actual has synergies of its own. Also, if you only own say 2 TNN, and 1 Jace the mindsculpter, you can make up for that with just having more card filtering like ponder or preordain.
I'd recommend playing something very similar to this list:
For big items I would prioritize your purchases as follows:
1. SFM + Equipments
2. Snapcaster
3. TNN
4. 1 Jace
5. 4 Flooded Strands
6. 1 Tundra
7. 4 Blue fetches (can add brainstorms now)
8. 2 Jace
9. 2 more Tundra
I have a lot of experience playing UW based decks like stoneblade, miracles or landstill and I honestly think the above list, or something extremely close, will get you your best deck for the least price.
Enchantress, as you mentioned, is actually a pretty solid deck. If you like that deck, finishing it isn't a bad idea.
You are very close to a lot of different decks and have a lot of valueble staples you could easily trade some of them to finish other decks if you want to.
Team America or shardless BUG - Missing Goyfs and 4-6 fetches and SB cards like flusterstorm or clique BUG Landstill - Lots of varients of this deck, but your missing 1-3 Jaces, some fetches and a few 30$ cards BUG Pod Nic Fit - You basically have all the money cards you need to play this archtypes, you just have to get all the random 1-10$ cards. There is lots of variation in the decks lists though, so you might want more jaces or fetchlands or something at some point. UB Tezzeret - Need Polluted deltas, and a bunch of 1-30$ cards.
ANT or TES - You'd need 1-3 fetches and lots of cheaper cards. Maybe Bob for ANT.
Reanimator - Need deltas and Show and tells
The lists I linked are just examples, not necessarily what I think are the "best versions" of those decks or anything. Id suggest just picking whatever interests you the most and going for it. TES or Pod Nic fit would probably be your cheapest options though.
Thanks for your suggestions!
I also feel I am not-so-far from completing a bunch of decks, but a lot of time, the big money cards are still missing
Good news is I looked into my binder yesterday and saw I have not 1 but 4 Volcanic Islands!
Based on this, do the suggestions change a lot? (I corrected my post above for a better overview)
I proxed up UB Tezzeret (not just yesterday but a few months ago) and found it not to fit my playstyle too well, so that would be out of the question.
Could you share your thoughts on ANT vs. TES (also TES vs. TES², I'm confused there)?
Building a storm deck would be really interesting for me and I also proxied some TES variant a while ago.
Feels like a fun, rewarding deck to me and is really in a good price range.
If nothing else comes around the corner, I guess one or another storm deck will become my next darling.
Well that's a pleasant surprise! You could make UR burn for basically just the cost of fetchlands.
Ant is basically a UB deck that splashes red for past in flames. It usually only runs 1 way to win in the MD: tendrils of agony. It gets to run more cantrips and basic lands. It also often has bob in the SB which comes in for combo mirrors and control matchups. It is much more GY dependent, is slower, easier to hate, but more consistent than TES.
TES is basically a 5c deck. It gets to run every good card you'd want in a storm deck. It has essentially twice the tutors ANT does because of Burning wish and doesnt fold as easily to hate since it can fight through just about anything with enough time/mana. It often just wins with empty the warrens and ironically has much better Ad Nauseums (average CMC is lower). TES is faster, "more powerful" and can fight through just about any hate at the expense of having a fragile mana base.
I am honestly not sure what TES^2 is, but I know people make sort of "hybrid" ANT/TES lists often, I would not worry about that till you get more experience.
Favorite Playstyle (Aggro, Midrange, Control, Combo, Tempo, Ramp): Aggro, Midrange, Control
How Competitive (For Fun, Local Tournament, MTGO, PTQ/GP): Local but occasionally large tournaments
Favorite Cards/Colors: White, Black, Green, and Red
Budget: Mostly irrelevant but less than 1K would be prefered
Staples Owned: A few fetchlands mostly Red, Black, and White but no playsets. A single wasteland and a playset of Ancient Tombs.
I prefer aggro and midrange decks but am open to other playstyles. I value synergy over raw power and would rather have a bunch of smaller creatures to a few larger ones. Resilience is very important to me, the deck has to be able to just plow through counters, removal, and wipes. Lots of removal is always a plus as I have a love of things like Doom Blade and Terror making it possible to swing in through an empty field.
Honestly, Maverick, deadguy ale or Death and taxes all sound like something you'd like. They all have very good results in the past year or so, they are resilient, can answer any strategy effectively, don't use blue. Can adapt and be "the aggro" deck in a matchup like miraclse, but against something like sneak and show, the decks flawless take on the aggro-control role.
Maverick is a bit pricey, 1500$ for the cheaper versions of the deck and costing more if you splash black for DRS, bob, or decay or Red for punishing fire. Death and taxes can be made for around 1200$ these days. Dead guy is around 1500$ too, but your fetches and wasteland would help a lot here.
So a little background, been playing magic for about 2 years, seriously getting into modern. Play UWr control in modern and absolutely love the deck. Built most of manaless dredge to get into legacy before realizing that it is extremely linear and in reality I'm a control player at heart. So I proxied up UWr miracles and absolutely fell in love with the deck.
Stuff I own:
4 snapcaster
4 scalding tarn
some of the cheaper cards, terminus, supreme verdict, swords, etc.
Now my question is, with about 600-700 to spend, where do I start?
I'm hesitant to buy into the other fetches barring all the buzz on a reprint, so I'm leaning towards FoW, or the Jace's I need. I could also run the FoW in merfolk, which is about 80% complete (without wastelands unfortunately). I could also get the Clique's as I don't have any and they would be a welcome addition to my modern UWr deck.
I'm happy the deck runs a proportionally small number of duals (two tundra, one volcanic) and have been thinking either, to just play it as UW, or substitute the volcanic with a steam vents temporarily, as the deck only really plays 2 main deck red spells.
So what are your guys thought, where do you think would be the most bang for my buck in investing?
Since I am an posting spree in this thread and Miracles happens to be my favorite deck Ill tackle this one too.
Unfortunately, fetchlands are very essential to miracles. I would say they are more important in miracles than they are in any other deck. The "fear" of reprint is real though. I get that. 4 Tarns is a good start at least. Id recommend maybe getting 2 arid mesas (which all lists run) and then waiting for the strands to be reprinted, if you must.
I would actually not really worry about FoW that much. The deck runs fine without it and you SB it out in 75% of the matchups you get. It is basically only even MD because its awesome against combo and at least does SOMETHING, even if it is card disadvantage, against fair deck. So I would get FoW Last.
I am big fan of clique (and venser too for that matter) but that opinion is not unanimous among miracles players. Clique is not essential, neither is Karakas. If you read the Miracles thread on TheSource, one of the most successful miracles players, "Einherjer" aka Philipp Schönegger, has recently cut karakas and moved clique to the SB and runs 3 Snaps MD.
You can get away with few duals at first though. Shocks aren't awful in miracles because the only time you really fetch non-basics is combo matchups where your life is mostly irrelevant.
My Recommendation would be start out playing something like this:
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Top
3 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
3 Spell pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Red Elemental Blast/spell snare/Supreme verdict/engineered explosives(meta dependant)
2 Jace
4 Snapcaster
SB:
2-4 Red blasts
1 entreat
0-3 verdict/EE
2 Negate/Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
1-2 Wear/tear
0-3 Meddling mage
3 RIP/Relic of progentius
X Other things
You can compensate for not having a good mana base and enough "powerful" cards like Jace, by having even more cantrips (4 ponders). Besides the essential stuff like the fetchlands, cantrips, tops, balance, and miracles, Jace is going to get your most bang for your buck. Not FoW, not tundras, but Jace.
Wow, that list looks awesome, I'll eventually look into buying the clique's and karaks, as those interactions are just really awesome. I've been following Joe Lossett's list, is he different from what others play?
I'm surprised that force isnt essential to the deck, can you explain more of that with maybe some examples of when you are siding it out?
Edit: I just took a look on the source, and it is kinda strange how similar it looks like the deck sideboards and plays, with modern UWr control. It's like the deck has sweepers or counters, and only one half is good in the deck vs most matchups so you side out the rest.
Would you say its worth it to invest in the fluster storms? Or to try and save up for FoW?
Wow, that list looks awesome, I'll eventually look into buying the clique's and karaks, as those interactions are just really awesome. I've been following Joe Lossett's list, is he different from what others play?
I'm surprised that force isnt essential to the deck, can you explain more of that with maybe some examples of when you are siding it out?
Edit: I just took a look on the source, and it is kinda strange how similar it looks like the deck sideboards and plays, with modern UWr control. It's like the deck has sweepers or counters, and only one half is good in the deck vs most matchups so you side out the rest.
Would you say its worth it to invest in the fluster storms? Or to try and save up for FoW?
Joe's deck and playstyle are similar enough to what the other miracles players I respect are doing. The only thing Joe does that's particularly different is running maindeck red blasts at the expense of swords to plowshares, and has more venser, clique and karakas at the expense of ponders. The rest of the maindeck is kind of the "core" and not really something that you should change unless you have a really good reason to.
I think flusterstorms are worth buying, before FoW though? Idk. They are really nice (and way cheaper than FoW). I guess it depends how far off you see yourself getting FoW. If it is going to be loooong time before you get FoW, you should at least get the flusterstorms then. Some combination of meddling mages, negates, pithing needles, red blasts, spell peirces, counterspells, and of course counterbalance should be enough to make the combo matchups at least even (if not much better than that).a
Force is essential in an optimal build, but if I was building this deck on a budget, it would be probably be one of the last things that I buy. Basically any matchup that is a combo deck, or a deck that plays backbreaking cards hate cards like chalice of the void, you want FoW. Otherwise it is not something you want in your maindeck. 2-for-1ing yourself to counter a goyf is not what you want to be doing when you can just sweep it away with a terminus later. Without FoW your combo matchups will be rougher, but against fair decks not having FoW is actually good. FoW is basically an unfortunate necessity in the maindeck because of combo decks*. If combo did not exist, it would be a terrible card in miracles.
*I don't mean to sound like a I hate combo decks. My feelings towards them is quiet the opposite.
I also want to reiterate how important fetchlands are in miracles. The ponders will help compensate for their absence a bit but they can only do so much. Also, I didnt think of this, but if you already have misty rainforests or marsh flats from modern, those are actually useful and you can run them till you get strands. I dont even own Tarns. Since I dont use a mountain in my 75 I just use 4 Polluted deltas that Ive had forever.
@zapatoo 12 post is probably the closest mono green deck that is out there now. Otherwise I usually also suggest trinity green which is an old deck and would need some updates.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
My gut says Death & Taxes, since you love equipment, and you'll get to play Batterskull, Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice in one deck. I'd proxy them and see what feels right, though. There've been decks that I thought I'd like, that bored me when I messed around with them, and decks that didn't catch my eye, that I loved once I played them.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Merfolk is pretty meh right now. It is not horrible, but not amazing. It is a fairly easy deck to pilot and unfortunately pretty linear. Basically the only chance for very skilled/"interesting" revolve around vial tricks, which granted can be quiet complicated and take a long time master so if that does it for you you will probably like the deck. It is certainly no less interesting of a deck than it is in modern.
However, it does not sound like a great deck for that meta. Basically all of those decks you mentioned are pretty rough matchups. In legacy Merfolk does best against combo, and non-red, blue based decks (like BUG delver, esper stoneblade, or miracles).
Your meta sounds like a lot of decks featuring quick, cheap low toughness threats. Not many big creatures like goyfs or combo decks to have to get through. Jund would actually be amazing there I think. All those matchups are easy wins for it. That said, jund is DEFINITELY not a budget a deck. However, if you are interested in modern as well there only difference between the decks are a 4-6 duals, DRS/BBE :D, 2-4 wasteland, grove of the burnwillows and hymn to tourach. And as far as I know Jund is still a good deck in modern and easily one of the best decks in legacy as well. It is fun, super powerful, very interactive and doesn't have unwinnable matchups.
I picked up an underground sea and a tropical island with all of my credit.
I also already some of the Bug value creatures (shardless agent, strix ect) but I'm a combo player at heart.
Is there anything else that I could build towards besides Aluren? Or did I accidently shoehole myself into buying recruiters?
TES needs another sea and a volcanic island IIRC, and it plays tropical in the sideboard along with abrupt decays.
It would require you to buy fetchlands and Lion's eye diamonds too.
You could also try to build ANT by trading the tropical towards another sea.
Tin Fins is another option with the sea.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
The great thing about staples like duals is that you are never "locked in" just about any legacy player would be willing to trade for an underground sea. You could easily trade those duals for other legacy cards you might need for a different deck. If your a combo player, TES might be the way to go. For a blue/black legacy deck it is relatively inexpensive, only needing 3 duals, 3 fetches, 4 LEDs and then a bunch of 1-15$ cards.
My only advice regarding Recruiters is that it's a very narrow staple card. It essentially goes in 1 major deck (Painter's Stone) and a few minor decks, such as Aluren. For the pricetag, you can pick a plethora of other staples that can be used in various decks.
Buying blue duals will never trap you into playing a single deck. They're always going to be a good pickup if you're looking to build your collection of staples for various decks.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
You're going to need force of wills or fast counters to beat the fast combo decks.
That being said, out of the decks you have, I'd probably choost Death and Taxes as it has the best combo matchup with thalia and the like.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
I think DnT is a good call for that meta as well, assuming one brings enough Mindbreaks the only truly hard matchups will be Jund and Elves.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Also, Parfait.
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Parfait is really only landtax + scroll rack. That combination can be taken many many different ways, it was even used in aggro decks back in the day. You can build it however you want.
The reason it's not very big is that there aren't many people driving the deck. There are so many ways you can go with it that it becomes difficult to really start.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
You might like Metalworker. There are definitely colorless MUD versions running around and doing very well without Wasteland. City of Traitors is the only card that's really annoying to acquire.
Once you've got the Sol lands, there's a lot that can be done with them.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Also, I'm going to quote what I said in your other thread because it still holds true:
I have a lot of experience playing UW based decks like stoneblade, miracles or landstill and I honestly think the above list, or something extremely close, will get you your best deck for the least price.
Enchantress, as you mentioned, is actually a pretty solid deck. If you like that deck, finishing it isn't a bad idea.
You are very close to a lot of different decks and have a lot of valueble staples you could easily trade some of them to finish other decks if you want to.
Team America or shardless BUG - Missing Goyfs and 4-6 fetches and SB cards like flusterstorm or clique
BUG Landstill - Lots of varients of this deck, but your missing 1-3 Jaces, some fetches and a few 30$ cards
BUG Pod Nic Fit - You basically have all the money cards you need to play this archtypes, you just have to get all the random 1-10$ cards. There is lots of variation in the decks lists though, so you might want more jaces or fetchlands or something at some point.
UB Tezzeret - Need Polluted deltas, and a bunch of 1-30$ cards.
ANT or TES - You'd need 1-3 fetches and lots of cheaper cards. Maybe Bob for ANT.
Reanimator - Need deltas and Show and tells
The lists I linked are just examples, not necessarily what I think are the "best versions" of those decks or anything. Id suggest just picking whatever interests you the most and going for it. TES or Pod Nic fit would probably be your cheapest options though.
Well that's a pleasant surprise! You could make UR burn for basically just the cost of fetchlands.
Ant is basically a UB deck that splashes red for past in flames. It usually only runs 1 way to win in the MD: tendrils of agony. It gets to run more cantrips and basic lands. It also often has bob in the SB which comes in for combo mirrors and control matchups. It is much more GY dependent, is slower, easier to hate, but more consistent than TES.
TES is basically a 5c deck. It gets to run every good card you'd want in a storm deck. It has essentially twice the tutors ANT does because of Burning wish and doesnt fold as easily to hate since it can fight through just about anything with enough time/mana. It often just wins with empty the warrens and ironically has much better Ad Nauseums (average CMC is lower). TES is faster, "more powerful" and can fight through just about any hate at the expense of having a fragile mana base.
I am honestly not sure what TES^2 is, but I know people make sort of "hybrid" ANT/TES lists often, I would not worry about that till you get more experience.
Id suggest reading some of these threads about the decks on TheSource, and I am biased, but I like TES a lot more and would recommend it over ANT if you had to choose:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23361-Deck-T-E-S-The-EPIC-Storm
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27161-Deck-ANT-(Ad-Nauseam-Tendrils)-Storm-Combo
How Competitive (For Fun, Local Tournament, MTGO, PTQ/GP): Local but occasionally large tournaments
Favorite Cards/Colors: White, Black, Green, and Red
Budget: Mostly irrelevant but less than 1K would be prefered
Staples Owned: A few fetchlands mostly Red, Black, and White but no playsets. A single wasteland and a playset of Ancient Tombs.
I prefer aggro and midrange decks but am open to other playstyles. I value synergy over raw power and would rather have a bunch of smaller creatures to a few larger ones. Resilience is very important to me, the deck has to be able to just plow through counters, removal, and wipes. Lots of removal is always a plus as I have a love of things like Doom Blade and Terror making it possible to swing in through an empty field.
Most importantly, the deck has to be fun to play.
-Anonymous
Honestly, Maverick, deadguy ale or Death and taxes all sound like something you'd like. They all have very good results in the past year or so, they are resilient, can answer any strategy effectively, don't use blue. Can adapt and be "the aggro" deck in a matchup like miraclse, but against something like sneak and show, the decks flawless take on the aggro-control role.
Maverick is a bit pricey, 1500$ for the cheaper versions of the deck and costing more if you splash black for DRS, bob, or decay or Red for punishing fire. Death and taxes can be made for around 1200$ these days. Dead guy is around 1500$ too, but your fetches and wasteland would help a lot here.
Stuff I own:
4 snapcaster
4 scalding tarn
some of the cheaper cards, terminus, supreme verdict, swords, etc.
Now my question is, with about 600-700 to spend, where do I start?
I'm hesitant to buy into the other fetches barring all the buzz on a reprint, so I'm leaning towards FoW, or the Jace's I need. I could also run the FoW in merfolk, which is about 80% complete (without wastelands unfortunately). I could also get the Clique's as I don't have any and they would be a welcome addition to my modern UWr deck.
I'm happy the deck runs a proportionally small number of duals (two tundra, one volcanic) and have been thinking either, to just play it as UW, or substitute the volcanic with a steam vents temporarily, as the deck only really plays 2 main deck red spells.
So what are your guys thought, where do you think would be the most bang for my buck in investing?
Thanks for the help!
- Mike
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
Unfortunately, fetchlands are very essential to miracles. I would say they are more important in miracles than they are in any other deck. The "fear" of reprint is real though. I get that. 4 Tarns is a good start at least. Id recommend maybe getting 2 arid mesas (which all lists run) and then waiting for the strands to be reprinted, if you must.
I would actually not really worry about FoW that much. The deck runs fine without it and you SB it out in 75% of the matchups you get. It is basically only even MD because its awesome against combo and at least does SOMETHING, even if it is card disadvantage, against fair deck. So I would get FoW Last.
I am big fan of clique (and venser too for that matter) but that opinion is not unanimous among miracles players. Clique is not essential, neither is Karakas. If you read the Miracles thread on TheSource, one of the most successful miracles players, "Einherjer" aka Philipp Schönegger, has recently cut karakas and moved clique to the SB and runs 3 Snaps MD.
You can get away with few duals at first though. Shocks aren't awful in miracles because the only time you really fetch non-basics is combo matchups where your life is mostly irrelevant.
My Recommendation would be start out playing something like this:
21 Lands:
4 Tarns
2 Mesas
1 Tundra
2 Hollowed fountain
1 Steam Vents
3 Plains
5 Island
1 Mountain
2 Mystic Gate
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Top
3 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
3 Spell pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
2 Red Elemental Blast/spell snare/Supreme verdict/engineered explosives(meta dependant)
2 Jace
4 Snapcaster
SB:
2-4 Red blasts
1 entreat
0-3 verdict/EE
2 Negate/Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
1-2 Wear/tear
0-3 Meddling mage
3 RIP/Relic of progentius
X Other things
You can compensate for not having a good mana base and enough "powerful" cards like Jace, by having even more cantrips (4 ponders). Besides the essential stuff like the fetchlands, cantrips, tops, balance, and miracles, Jace is going to get your most bang for your buck. Not FoW, not tundras, but Jace.
I'm surprised that force isnt essential to the deck, can you explain more of that with maybe some examples of when you are siding it out?
Edit: I just took a look on the source, and it is kinda strange how similar it looks like the deck sideboards and plays, with modern UWr control. It's like the deck has sweepers or counters, and only one half is good in the deck vs most matchups so you side out the rest.
Would you say its worth it to invest in the fluster storms? Or to try and save up for FoW?
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
Joe's deck and playstyle are similar enough to what the other miracles players I respect are doing. The only thing Joe does that's particularly different is running maindeck red blasts at the expense of swords to plowshares, and has more venser, clique and karakas at the expense of ponders. The rest of the maindeck is kind of the "core" and not really something that you should change unless you have a really good reason to.
I think flusterstorms are worth buying, before FoW though? Idk. They are really nice (and way cheaper than FoW). I guess it depends how far off you see yourself getting FoW. If it is going to be loooong time before you get FoW, you should at least get the flusterstorms then. Some combination of meddling mages, negates, pithing needles, red blasts, spell peirces, counterspells, and of course counterbalance should be enough to make the combo matchups at least even (if not much better than that).a
Force is essential in an optimal build, but if I was building this deck on a budget, it would be probably be one of the last things that I buy. Basically any matchup that is a combo deck, or a deck that plays backbreaking cards hate cards like chalice of the void, you want FoW. Otherwise it is not something you want in your maindeck. 2-for-1ing yourself to counter a goyf is not what you want to be doing when you can just sweep it away with a terminus later. Without FoW your combo matchups will be rougher, but against fair decks not having FoW is actually good. FoW is basically an unfortunate necessity in the maindeck because of combo decks*. If combo did not exist, it would be a terrible card in miracles.
*I don't mean to sound like a I hate combo decks. My feelings towards them is quiet the opposite.
I also want to reiterate how important fetchlands are in miracles. The ponders will help compensate for their absence a bit but they can only do so much. Also, I didnt think of this, but if you already have misty rainforests or marsh flats from modern, those are actually useful and you can run them till you get strands. I dont even own Tarns. Since I dont use a mountain in my 75 I just use 4 Polluted deltas that Ive had forever.