I'm not sure that they've ever publicly stated their criteria, ad I'm sure it's a little but grey. But all observations point to a criteria whereby nothig is vanned unless we have one or a small number of decks dominating the format and destroying it's diversity. TN by no means supports such a deck!
As we know Mental Misstep was designed for Legacy and Wild Nacatl was made for Modern. It only tells me that wizards have a vision for both format that exceeds the players understanding.
I don't believe Modern was conceived at the time of Kitty's design (which happened long before it saw print). WotC was still toying with the idea of a Masques forward non rotating format to replace Legacy long after Kitty was already in print. Either way, if WotC is pinting cards specifically for a format, and then having to ban those cards, it would seem like it's WotC who doesn't understand their own vision for the formats!
Back to TNN... This card was made for EDH in mind and for Multiplayers...
I wouldn't rule out the idea that WotC squeezes a couple cards into Commander sets which are intended for Legacy. I don't think Hasbro wants WotC to market products directly to Legacy players (too few of us spending too little money), so Commander is the only venue to print Legacy cards which will not be welcome in Standard.
I love how nactal was made for a format that wouldn't exist for another 2 years.
It was made with shock lands in mind... there is only one format I know that plays shock lands.
PS... they had their mind on a modern format since they changed the card faces... we just don't know this because they never tell us. But I don't believe this was never in the works until one day somebody said... "today we are going to make a modern format"
Back to TNN... This card was made for EDH in mind and for Multiplayers, the card is a player assassin and easy to take out if your not the targeted players. It looks like a fun idea. Players sees the card for what it is... Chuck Norris!
TNN was made for Legacy, not EDH, just like several cards in supplemental products before it (see Shardless Agent and Baleful Strix).
It was made with shock lands in mind... there is only one format I know that plays shock lands.
I would question that too since it was banned effectively because of shock lands. Even considering their own future future league they should have seen the potential of a 1 mana 3/3.
Also extended was a format.
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I'm not sure that they've ever publicly stated their criteria, ad I'm sure it's a little but grey. But all observations point to a criteria whereby nothig is vanned unless we have one or a small number of decks dominating the format and destroying it's diversity. TN by no means supports such a deck!
All I had noticed that wizards don't want to ban cards unless there has been a big outcry on it.
Flash was banned almost over night because 75% (I could be wrong on the percentage) players demanded for the banning.
Mental Misstep... almost same story.
Survival... wizards saw it being bad, decides not to act on it for almost 2 years (maybe a year and a half)... Players started to scream more about the unfairness of the deck.
I don't believe Modern was conceived at the time of Kitty's design (which happened long before it saw print). WotC was still toying with the idea of a Masques forward non rotating format to replace Legacy long after Kitty was already in print.
Wizards was planned for a Modern format for a long time. I think Extended was going to be converted into Modern. Wizards know they are not going to reprint dual lands and legacy would never adopt shock lands so they needed to make a new eternal format. they also know once extended adopted shock lands and the card rotates out the players are going to be screwed... unlike what happen when dual lands were rotated out of extended - those players shifted to Type 1.5 and made it a format.
Back to the cat - the card was designed with shock lands in mind. Wizards had told us that much.
Either way, if WotC is pinting cards specifically for a format, and then having to ban those cards, it would seem like it's WotC who doesn't understand their own vision for the formats!
I do agree with that part... I think Mental Misstep would be less of a problem if the card didn't hit creatures... it does make you wonder what they are thinking.
On the other hand, maybe they know something that we don't know... they live and breath magic and they get paid to play the game, they know more about the game they any of use... yet they are stupid too... this is why I believe Urzas was not a mistake, they made the block with the intent to bring the old school type 1 players back in the game.
I wouldn't rule out the idea that WotC squeezes a couple cards into Commander sets which are intended for Legacy. I don't think Hasbro wants WotC to market products directly to Legacy players (too few of us spending too little money), so Commander is the only venue to print Legacy cards which will not be welcome in Standard.
That would be cool... I just wished they squeeze out a force of will.
All I had noticed that wizards don't want to ban cards unless there has been a big outcry on it.
Flash was banned almost over night because 75% (I could be wrong on the percentage) players demanded for the banning.
Mental Misstep... almost same story.
Survival... wizards saw it being bad, decides not to act on it for almost 2 years (maybe a year and a half)... Players started to scream more about the unfairness of the deck.
I thought that Mental Misstep was in the format for several months and warped the format around it. Also, Survival got more broken cards. That was why it got banned.
I do agree with that part... I think Mental Misstep would be less of a problem if the card didn't hit creatures... it does make you wonder what they are thinking.
I think that if it had cost 2 Phyrexian mana it would have been fine (it couldn't counter itself).
On the other hand, maybe they know something that we don't know... they live and breath magic and they get paid to play the game, they know more about the game they any of use... yet they are stupid too... this is why I believe Urzas was not a mistake, they made the block with the intent to bring the old school type 1 players back in the game.
Urza's was a mistake. Apparently, all of R&D got called into the CEO's office and got yelled at. I don't think that that was intentional.
I'm not sure that they've ever publicly stated their criteria, ad I'm sure it's a little but grey. But all observations point to a criteria whereby nothig is vanned unless we have one or a small number of decks dominating the format and destroying it's diversity. TN by no means supports such a deck!
This is just absolutely not true, just go look at Mystical Tutor, it was far from dominating the format and yet it still got banned. Reducing diversity or format dominance are certainly both things to look at when considering banning a card but they are not the only thing.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
This is just absolutely not true, just go look at Mystical Tutor, it was far from dominating the format and yet it still got banned. Reducing diversity or format dominance are certainly both things to look at when considering banning a card but they are not the only thing.
I do agree with the banning of Mystical Tutor. Otherwise if the card was legal then Entomb and Show and Tell and Ad Nauseum would be banned. I think it's better to ban one card then destroy a few decks.
I do agree with the banning of Mystical Tutor. Otherwise if the card was legal then Entomb and Show and Tell and Ad Nauseum would be banned. I think it's better to ban one card then destroy a few decks.
I agree with you, banning Mystical Tutor was the right call, but at the time none of the data pointed to the Mystical Tutor decks being overly dominant (heck the tournament they pointed to in the article had just as many Zoo decks as Mystical Tutor decks in the top 8) or even format warping so it should be pretty clear that these are not the only metrics by which to judge banning cards on. At the end of the day, all that matters is what WotC sees as being "best" for the format and not necessarily just whether cards/decks are dominating or warping.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Mystical Tutor ban baffles me. I can see how the card would be OP in Legacy now, but not at the time. Perhaps it was a preemptive ban, but that's opposite their normal trend of letting the cards sit and giving the meta a chance to adjust.
Either way, a TNN ban would be a first, in that they've never banned a card with such low showings in the most recent large events.
Even if TNN is on their radar (which I doubt - the top eights have been quite diverse lately), I would think they would wait ant see what, if anything, the new Spirit will do to shake up the meta and hurt Brainstorm decks.
Mystical Tutor ban baffles me. I can see how the card would be OP in Legacy now, but not at the time. Perhaps it was a preemptive ban, but that's opposite their normal trend of letting the cards sit and giving the meta a chance to adjust.
Either way, a TNN ban would be a first, in that they've never banned a card with such low showings in the most recent large events.
Even if TNN is on their radar (which I doubt - the top eights have been quite diverse lately), I would think they would wait ant see what, if anything, the new Spirit will do to shake up the meta and hurt Brainstorm decks.
TNN is certainly on their radar, the vast majority of the Legacy community hates this card regardless of whether they think its ban worthy or not. MaRo made an interesting blog post, now this isn't necessarily damning for TNN but the language he uses certainly lends me to believe that he isn't talking about design. If he was talking about future cards he most likely would have used different language, however it is still certainly ambiguous to what he means.
As for not putting up results, I'd point you to TC Decks just to remind you that the US isn't the only place that plays Legacy, right now the top 4 decks of the month are UWR Delver, Deathblade, D&T, and Blade Control, clearly TNN is doing poorly :rolleyes:. And even before that if you only want to look at the metagame from the US, some sort of TrueBlade/TNN deck won or was in the finals of almost every major US Tournament since its release and it won much more than it lost. So I'd contend its at least put the same results as Mystical Tutor has when it got banned.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
This article was from around the time Mystical got banned (actually just after it if memory serves.)
Essentially, Reanimator/AnT/Hulk Flash were all running 4ofs of it and a massive chunk of the meta was playing only those decks.
After reading the article and thinking about their Mystical Tutor rationale, looking at the Top 8's from tournaments that WotC would pay attention to from both eras, thinking about the timing and community feeling and all that, I actually think there's a decent chance that TNN will get the axe.
R&D's dislike of a card powering up existing archetypes while not really being the centerpiece of a unique strategy (unlike S&T or Entomb), a lot of people saying that the whole thing would be more fun without it, heavy sideboarding going on because of the card, a feeling that the decks have good match ups against most things and consistency that allows focused sideboarding against the rest, a "Why play anything else?" vibe, three decks with it in a GP a few months before with one winning, it all sounds kinda familiar. I still think a ban is more unlikely than likely in a few days, for reasons like the fact that TNN isn't a traditional "enabler", but it's a possibility.
If TNN gets axed then Delver should had been axed a long time ago.
the creature is a 3/1 with a 3cc, he comes in play on turn 3 and attacks on turn 4, he doesn't have great power to kill the opponent so there's a turn 5 and a turn 6 and more with him. Sure other creatures can make it faster... but I believe and most of you guys agree the legacy tournament shouldn't be longer then 6 turns.
I don't think the creature should be axed. I don't see anything wrong with him. And we do have cards that can remove TNN easily big deal if they affect goblins - smart players should know that some kid is going to play goblins anyway.
@Feaor there was signs that pointed Mystical Tutor was good. I sort of believed wizards would had banned Mystical Tutor earlier (during the Hulk Flash explosion) but in stead they banned Flash based on the players outcry.
If TNN gets axed then Delver should had been axed a long time ago.
the creature is a 3/1 with a 3cc, he comes in play on turn 3 and attacks on turn 4, he doesn't have great power to kill the opponent so there's a turn 5 and a turn 6 and more with him. Sure other creatures can make it faster... but I believe and most of you guys agree the legacy tournament shouldn't be longer then 6 turns.
I don't think the creature should be axed. I don't see anything wrong with him. And we do have cards that can remove TNN easily big deal if they affect goblins - smart players should know that some kid is going to play goblins anyway.
This is so disingenuous about TNN's power level and legacy in general it borders on trolling, Legacy matches last 6 turns, really? I suggest you actually play some legacy and stop trolling this thread.
So I'm getting the vibes I should pick up a playset of SotL? We are all speculating it's going to rise in value right?
Pretty sure she'll drop, as good as she is she isn't thaalia and unless she breaks standard or something the demand for her really won't be that high. Legacy still doesn't do much to affect non-foil prices of cards. Deathrite is 15 and the best 1 drop in 2 formats atm. She'll probably be like $4 unless BNG sells terribly (which is possible but still its a small set.).
This is so disingenuous about TNN's power level and legacy in general it borders on trolling, Legacy matches last 6 turns, really? I suggest you actually play some legacy and stop trolling this thread.
Don't call me a troll! the power level of TNN is not that bad. All is see is awesome creature ***** ***** ***** *****... really?
What sucks is players that don't like the idea of new awesome creatures entering the format every 6 months or so. The game is going to have a butt load of awesome creatures because wizards do know that the players want.
If we don't have new awesome cards entering the format then it will die. Decks don't change much and players will lose interests. Wizards knows this and said this:
[wizards=quote]These cards weren't an accident—we printed them (and a few others) with the hope that they would appear in eternal formats and have been generally happy with the results. While we don't put nearly as much effort into controlling or guiding eternal formats, we do want to make sure there are enough cards printed for them each year that the formats don't stagnate too much. One of the draws of the formats is that your deck can be legal and competitive for... well, decades, I suppose... but if nothing changes at all, then the appeal will fade.
TNN was no accident! I doubt Delver was an accident too... and I'm willing to say Spirit of the Labyrinth was no accident either.
These people live, breath and eat magic. they know more about the game then any of use because they know what's coming out 3 years in advance and their view on the format is clearly more different then the average player here.
You're a troll because you say that TNN isn't that powerful because games end by turn 6, which just isn't true in Legacy at all. Go watch any of the most recent SCG Opens and I'm sure you'll find that plenty of games go quite long, especially in the fair match ups which is where TNN shines. TNN comes down and immediately stabilizes the board if you're behind, it breaks board stalls, and it can put you very far ahead if your opponent struggles to find an answer to it. Like I said, your previous post is so disingenuous to the point of absurdity about the power of TNN, otherwise it would not be seeing play at all.
As for TNN being designed with Eternal in mind, I'm very aware that that was the case, MaRo has straight up said it as well. But keep in mind that they don't test legacy at all when creating cards with Legacy in mind. So while they most certainly intentionally designed TNN, Delver, etc. with Legacy in mind, they also designed Mental Misstep with Legacy in mind and look how that turned out :rolleyes:.
As for new cards, people do want new cards in Legacy, they've done a good job of printing new playable cards in Legacy with things like Thalia and GSZ. Just because people really hate dumb cards like Griselbrand and TNN that push the format in the direction of being less interactive, doesn't mean we don't want new cards.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Are you saying seriously that Legacy rounds last 6 turns? ANTe and Show and Tell are like the most consistent combo decks and they aim to their own turn three to combo off. And what comes to TNN think about this creature; G/W/R 3/2 with "Spells or effects controlled by your opponents can't remove creatures you control from the battlefield." Design of that monster is just as terrible as Nemesis'. And the casting cost is that just because none wants it in blue decks.
Are you saying seriously that Legacy rounds last 6 turns? ANTe and Show and Tell are like the most consistent combo decks and they aim to their own turn three to combo off. And what comes to TNN think about this creature; G/W/R 3/2 with "Spells or effects controlled by your opponents can't remove creatures you control from the battlefield." Design of that monster is just as terrible as Nemesis'. And the casting cost is that just because none wants it in blue decks.
Huh? I may be the only one but I don't understand this. I think I do, reread it, and get lost again. Could you rephrase your ideas into sentences for me, please?
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Yea I have no idea what he was trying to say either, if he was referring to me when talking about 6 turns, I can say that the majority of Legacy games do not end in the first 3 turns but actually tend to go quite long. Just because ANT and Sneak and Show aim to go off in the first 3 turns, doesn't mean that they always do, especially after side boarding as hate cards can make these match ups very grindy and long.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
I dont need to be posting here... and I'm getting tired of being called a troll to stifle my opinions.
You know what I see that is so freaking absurd... People saying the format is safe for Black Vise and Mindtwist... while others are saying TNN is wrecking the format.
I think I'd wasted my time enough here. I'll be back when the new cards roll in. I do hope TNN dosent get banned because of crybabies want to protect thier goblin decks.
I dont need to be posting here... and I'm getting tired of being called a troll to stifle my opinions.
You know what I see that is so freaking absurd... People saying the format is safe for Black Vise and Mindtwist... while others are saying TNN is wrecking the format.
I think I'd wasted my time enough here. I'll be back when the new cards roll in. I do hope TNN dosent get banned because of crybabies want to protect thier goblin decks.
If you don't want to be called a troll, you should probably stop making wild ridiculous claims with no basis to back them up. Stuff like saying Legacy games shouldn't go longer than 6 turns is ridiculous and seems like trolling to me.
Also nice straw man, I'm pretty sure nobody wants TNN banned to allow Goblins back into the format, heck I haven't even played Goblins in years so I don't really care what happens to it.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
I'm not sure that they've ever publicly stated their criteria, ad I'm sure it's a little but grey. But all observations point to a criteria whereby nothig is vanned unless we have one or a small number of decks dominating the format and destroying it's diversity. TN by no means supports such a deck!
I don't believe Modern was conceived at the time of Kitty's design (which happened long before it saw print). WotC was still toying with the idea of a Masques forward non rotating format to replace Legacy long after Kitty was already in print. Either way, if WotC is pinting cards specifically for a format, and then having to ban those cards, it would seem like it's WotC who doesn't understand their own vision for the formats!
I wouldn't rule out the idea that WotC squeezes a couple cards into Commander sets which are intended for Legacy. I don't think Hasbro wants WotC to market products directly to Legacy players (too few of us spending too little money), so Commander is the only venue to print Legacy cards which will not be welcome in Standard.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
It was made with shock lands in mind... there is only one format I know that plays shock lands.
PS... they had their mind on a modern format since they changed the card faces... we just don't know this because they never tell us. But I don't believe this was never in the works until one day somebody said... "today we are going to make a modern format"
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
TNN was made for Legacy, not EDH, just like several cards in supplemental products before it (see Shardless Agent and Baleful Strix).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I would question that too since it was banned effectively because of shock lands. Even considering their own future future league they should have seen the potential of a 1 mana 3/3.
Also extended was a format.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
All I had noticed that wizards don't want to ban cards unless there has been a big outcry on it.
Flash was banned almost over night because 75% (I could be wrong on the percentage) players demanded for the banning.
Mental Misstep... almost same story.
Survival... wizards saw it being bad, decides not to act on it for almost 2 years (maybe a year and a half)... Players started to scream more about the unfairness of the deck.
Wizards was planned for a Modern format for a long time. I think Extended was going to be converted into Modern. Wizards know they are not going to reprint dual lands and legacy would never adopt shock lands so they needed to make a new eternal format. they also know once extended adopted shock lands and the card rotates out the players are going to be screwed... unlike what happen when dual lands were rotated out of extended - those players shifted to Type 1.5 and made it a format.
Back to the cat - the card was designed with shock lands in mind. Wizards had told us that much.
I do agree with that part... I think Mental Misstep would be less of a problem if the card didn't hit creatures... it does make you wonder what they are thinking.
On the other hand, maybe they know something that we don't know... they live and breath magic and they get paid to play the game, they know more about the game they any of use... yet they are stupid too... this is why I believe Urzas was not a mistake, they made the block with the intent to bring the old school type 1 players back in the game.
That would be cool... I just wished they squeeze out a force of will.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I thought that Mental Misstep was in the format for several months and warped the format around it. Also, Survival got more broken cards. That was why it got banned.
I think that if it had cost 2 Phyrexian mana it would have been fine (it couldn't counter itself).
Urza's was a mistake. Apparently, all of R&D got called into the CEO's office and got yelled at. I don't think that that was intentional.
Sources: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/171 (look under third dynasty)
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr97 (#2)
Or a Wasteland.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This is just absolutely not true, just go look at Mystical Tutor, it was far from dominating the format and yet it still got banned. Reducing diversity or format dominance are certainly both things to look at when considering banning a card but they are not the only thing.
I do agree with the banning of Mystical Tutor. Otherwise if the card was legal then Entomb and Show and Tell and Ad Nauseum would be banned. I think it's better to ban one card then destroy a few decks.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/269
I agree with you, banning Mystical Tutor was the right call, but at the time none of the data pointed to the Mystical Tutor decks being overly dominant (heck the tournament they pointed to in the article had just as many Zoo decks as Mystical Tutor decks in the top 8) or even format warping so it should be pretty clear that these are not the only metrics by which to judge banning cards on. At the end of the day, all that matters is what WotC sees as being "best" for the format and not necessarily just whether cards/decks are dominating or warping.
Either way, a TNN ban would be a first, in that they've never banned a card with such low showings in the most recent large events.
Even if TNN is on their radar (which I doubt - the top eights have been quite diverse lately), I would think they would wait ant see what, if anything, the new Spirit will do to shake up the meta and hurt Brainstorm decks.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
This article was from around the time Mystical got banned (actually just after it if memory serves.)
Essentially, Reanimator/AnT/Hulk Flash were all running 4ofs of it and a massive chunk of the meta was playing only those decks.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyTNN is certainly on their radar, the vast majority of the Legacy community hates this card regardless of whether they think its ban worthy or not. MaRo made an interesting blog post, now this isn't necessarily damning for TNN but the language he uses certainly lends me to believe that he isn't talking about design. If he was talking about future cards he most likely would have used different language, however it is still certainly ambiguous to what he means.
As for not putting up results, I'd point you to TC Decks just to remind you that the US isn't the only place that plays Legacy, right now the top 4 decks of the month are UWR Delver, Deathblade, D&T, and Blade Control, clearly TNN is doing poorly :rolleyes:. And even before that if you only want to look at the metagame from the US, some sort of TrueBlade/TNN deck won or was in the finals of almost every major US Tournament since its release and it won much more than it lost. So I'd contend its at least put the same results as Mystical Tutor has when it got banned.
After reading the article and thinking about their Mystical Tutor rationale, looking at the Top 8's from tournaments that WotC would pay attention to from both eras, thinking about the timing and community feeling and all that, I actually think there's a decent chance that TNN will get the axe.
R&D's dislike of a card powering up existing archetypes while not really being the centerpiece of a unique strategy (unlike S&T or Entomb), a lot of people saying that the whole thing would be more fun without it, heavy sideboarding going on because of the card, a feeling that the decks have good match ups against most things and consistency that allows focused sideboarding against the rest, a "Why play anything else?" vibe, three decks with it in a GP a few months before with one winning, it all sounds kinda familiar. I still think a ban is more unlikely than likely in a few days, for reasons like the fact that TNN isn't a traditional "enabler", but it's a possibility.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
the creature is a 3/1 with a 3cc, he comes in play on turn 3 and attacks on turn 4, he doesn't have great power to kill the opponent so there's a turn 5 and a turn 6 and more with him. Sure other creatures can make it faster... but I believe and most of you guys agree the legacy tournament shouldn't be longer then 6 turns.
I don't think the creature should be axed. I don't see anything wrong with him. And we do have cards that can remove TNN easily big deal if they affect goblins - smart players should know that some kid is going to play goblins anyway.
@Feaor there was signs that pointed Mystical Tutor was good. I sort of believed wizards would had banned Mystical Tutor earlier (during the Hulk Flash explosion) but in stead they banned Flash based on the players outcry.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
This is so disingenuous about TNN's power level and legacy in general it borders on trolling, Legacy matches last 6 turns, really? I suggest you actually play some legacy and stop trolling this thread.
Lets try to be civil in our posts.
Pretty sure she'll drop, as good as she is she isn't thaalia and unless she breaks standard or something the demand for her really won't be that high. Legacy still doesn't do much to affect non-foil prices of cards. Deathrite is 15 and the best 1 drop in 2 formats atm. She'll probably be like $4 unless BNG sells terribly (which is possible but still its a small set.).
Don't call me a troll! the power level of TNN is not that bad. All is see is awesome creature ***** ***** ***** *****... really?
What sucks is players that don't like the idea of new awesome creatures entering the format every 6 months or so. The game is going to have a butt load of awesome creatures because wizards do know that the players want.
If we don't have new awesome cards entering the format then it will die. Decks don't change much and players will lose interests. Wizards knows this and said this:
[wizards=quote]These cards weren't an accident—we printed them (and a few others) with the hope that they would appear in eternal formats and have been generally happy with the results. While we don't put nearly as much effort into controlling or guiding eternal formats, we do want to make sure there are enough cards printed for them each year that the formats don't stagnate too much. One of the draws of the formats is that your deck can be legal and competitive for... well, decades, I suppose... but if nothing changes at all, then the appeal will fade.
Source: https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/269
[/quote]
TNN was no accident! I doubt Delver was an accident too... and I'm willing to say Spirit of the Labyrinth was no accident either.
These people live, breath and eat magic. they know more about the game then any of use because they know what's coming out 3 years in advance and their view on the format is clearly more different then the average player here.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
As for TNN being designed with Eternal in mind, I'm very aware that that was the case, MaRo has straight up said it as well. But keep in mind that they don't test legacy at all when creating cards with Legacy in mind. So while they most certainly intentionally designed TNN, Delver, etc. with Legacy in mind, they also designed Mental Misstep with Legacy in mind and look how that turned out :rolleyes:.
As for new cards, people do want new cards in Legacy, they've done a good job of printing new playable cards in Legacy with things like Thalia and GSZ. Just because people really hate dumb cards like Griselbrand and TNN that push the format in the direction of being less interactive, doesn't mean we don't want new cards.
Modern
WUBRG
Huh? I may be the only one but I don't understand this. I think I do, reread it, and get lost again. Could you rephrase your ideas into sentences for me, please?
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
You know what I see that is so freaking absurd... People saying the format is safe for Black Vise and Mindtwist... while others are saying TNN is wrecking the format.
I think I'd wasted my time enough here. I'll be back when the new cards roll in. I do hope TNN dosent get banned because of crybabies want to protect thier goblin decks.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
If you don't want to be called a troll, you should probably stop making wild ridiculous claims with no basis to back them up. Stuff like saying Legacy games shouldn't go longer than 6 turns is ridiculous and seems like trolling to me.
Also nice straw man, I'm pretty sure nobody wants TNN banned to allow Goblins back into the format, heck I haven't even played Goblins in years so I don't really care what happens to it.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.