I don't know if someone already said it, but never forget that an HP card functions the same way as a shiny NM/M card. You can buy staples for less if you don't care about how the state of the card is, as long as it's playable.
good card condition means refundability on the card when you won't need it anymore. you can probably do with a set of force of will in awful conditions since they won't go anywhere anytime soon as long as you keep playing.
That cuts both ways though. It's pretty hard to wear a HP card into Damaged territory if you're using sleeves, but a NM/Mint card will eventually wear down even if you're careful.
The only time condition really matters is if you're going to buylist something. New players should keep in mind that some sets are especially sensitive to condition in this regard. Legend, in particular, generally suffers a pretty big markdown if the cards aren't mint.
How is the boo berry deck (version 2 seemed better) working for you? Didn't seem like the worst deck, and when eventually getting fetches, adding brainstorm seems like it can go even further... You think FoW seem like a choice in a less budget-esque version of this deck, or just a viable sideboard option? It seems to me this deck is just more consistent that oops all spells! as well, how do you put those deck in comparison?
Boo Berry version 2 is in my opinion the better of the two, yes. I have used it at tournaments in the past, and have even watched fairly inexperienced players pilot it to respectable placings. It can be improved upon by adding fetches, brainstorm, and FoW in the main.
The deck is more consistent that Oops All Spells, but the two are actually very different decks. This deck plays much more like Omniscience, or the Dream Halls decks from a few years ago. You cantrip for your combo, play it, and protect it with blue counter magic. Oops all spells plays more like Belcher or S.I in that you just try to go off as soon as possible, and whether or not you can is based almost entirely on your opening hand. They have similar win conditions, but they are very different decks.
Happy to hear that you enjoy my work. If you have any other questions feel free to ask!
I don't really like Grow decks but it's acceptable. My price range is something like $150~$300. But I think I proably already have some cards to start with both of the decks.
By the way sorry for taking so long to answer.
$150~$300 should be plenty to set something up. What cards are you referring to that you already have? Specifically, do you already own some of the land base?
No problems on the length of time to answer thing. I was gone all weekend, so I just saw this.
I like this idea quite a lot. I only have a few questions about the build.
1) Considering you seem to want to achieve Threshold as soon as possible is Snapcaster Mage really a good option?
2) I'm very skeptical about Mental Note, Thought Scour and Werebear. Isn't Careful Study flat better than the first two? In my experience Blue mana is a lot more important to the deck than green one so I'm not sure about Werebear.
I chose snapcaster because, really, the biggest problem I have with these decks is the creature base. He's a great card, and if all goes well you won't have trouble hitting threshhold. That being said, I completely understand your concern. The question is, what replaces him?
Mental note could be replaced by careful study. I just included it as another set of thought scour, but I do think you want to keep one of them. This is a threshold deck without fetch lands after all. You are going to need all the help you can get. Werebear was included more so for the 2cmc 4/4 aspect rather than the mana. If you can think of a better beat stick feel free to use him. I figured he fit the thresh bill well, and the deck needs beat sticks.
Wonder should definitely be included, but I'm not sure about the rest. This is a threshold deck, not a madness deck. The two are actually pretty different, and of you try to combine them you will find you can't reach threshold (or madness mana cost) fast enough. Deep Analysis might be worth a try though.
graveyard hate might be a problem, but that's what blue is for. Just counter it. Or, if it comes in artifact or enchantment form, you are playing green, which has plenty of removal to pick from in that department.
Seems like an ideal time to buy into legacy on Magic Online with the release of Vintage Masters. I just bought in myself. Dual lands are like < 16 if you look around. Fetch lands are still a bit pricey along with Wasteland.
I been running into a decent amount of Burn on MTGO seems like that is the budget deck of choice.
@Spooky
You should be running Brainstorm and Ponder over Mental Note and Thoughtscour although Brainstorm loses effectiveness with no Fetchlands. Maybe Preordain instead. Daze is usually played but without duals and fetch lands you might not have an island early to capitalize. Might want to considering going Blue Red and you get lightning bolts, grim lavamancer and young pyromancer.
I really don't want to play brainstorm without fetches, and Ponder is great most of the time, but since this is a threshold deck I think we want the milling of scour and note more than we want the card selection.
Daze is certainly an option, but like you said, it's difficult to know if it will be playable at all. Plus, having to re-play a shock land is pretty awkward.
I can't go R/U, but that's only because U/G is what was requested. Personally, I think R/U delver is a better deck on a budget, but we are trying what we can in U/G.
@Spooky
Keeping with U/G Have you tried madness instead of thresh? Wold Mongrel, Aquameba, Arrogant Wurm, Circular Logic, Deep Analysis, Roar of the Wurm? Makes a really great VMA draft deck, not sure if it is good enough for legacy though. It used to be years ago though before there was a Delver of Secrets.
Big reason to go U/G is Tarmgoyf but it is expensive.
I really like madness style decks, especially with vengevine, but I think we decided on thresh because its more of a tempo deck, which is what Sagite wanted.
I've been testing the list you gave me, Spooky and I've been liking it very much so far. I've been thinking about switching Werebear for Scavenging Ooze. Do you think this could work?
Ooze is kind of iffy to me. On one end, he is very very strong, and I could definitely see him acting as a goyf or bear replacement. On the other, however, is the fact that he needs to remove cards in graveyards. If your opponent does not have creatures in the graveyard you are forced to get rid of your own to make him bigger, which can be bad for a threshold deck. Also, If you run him I would only run a max of 2. Having multiples on the field doesn't really work well.
Has anyone considered making an MTGO-specific version of this thread?
Due to different supply/demand dynamics, MTGO's expensive cards are very different to those in paper - a playset of Wasteland actually costs more than a playset of revised duals, for instance. (That's an entire 40 card playset, not a playset of just one specific dual, but all of them combined). Vendillion Clique is out of consideration in a budget deck, but Jace, the Mind Sculptor is affordable even as a 4-of. And so on.
Of course! Really, All I would start you off with is an identical list where the Stifle Replaces Reality Ripple. As time goes on you can put more money into it, but that's what I would do with the stifle atm.
hey spooky, i love your decks and i find them quite fun. one of my favorites is the phasenaught deck. what would you do to perhaps upgrade it? would adding black or an isochron scepter? be viable?
Upgrading phasenought depends on exactly how much money you want to put into the upgrade. adding fetchlands and brainstorm helps with consistency. force of will can be added for protection. stifle is a great card outside of the combo. black could be added, but hat requires fetchlands and black sources. How much money were you wanting to put into the deck?
@Maerlin- it all depends on what you want to be doing. I personally would play 4 stifle, 4 charm, and keep it at that. Trickbind can do some nifty things though, so I would just weigh the benefits of playing it over reality ripple, or look at what you like better between it and charm. They all do something different. Look at your meta and decide. Remember that anything that phases out a permanent can get rid of a batterskull forever.
The only time condition really matters is if you're going to buylist something. New players should keep in mind that some sets are especially sensitive to condition in this regard. Legend, in particular, generally suffers a pretty big markdown if the cards aren't mint.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
How is the boo berry deck (version 2 seemed better) working for you? Didn't seem like the worst deck, and when eventually getting fetches, adding brainstorm seems like it can go even further... You think FoW seem like a choice in a less budget-esque version of this deck, or just a viable sideboard option? It seems to me this deck is just more consistent that oops all spells! as well, how do you put those deck in comparison?
Also just loved the New Alara deck!
The deck is more consistent that Oops All Spells, but the two are actually very different decks. This deck plays much more like Omniscience, or the Dream Halls decks from a few years ago. You cantrip for your combo, play it, and protect it with blue counter magic. Oops all spells plays more like Belcher or S.I in that you just try to go off as soon as possible, and whether or not you can is based almost entirely on your opening hand. They have similar win conditions, but they are very different decks.
Happy to hear that you enjoy my work. If you have any other questions feel free to ask!
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Can you point me any budget (or at least semi-budget) Blue and Green Tempo deck?
Thanks in advance!
Your only real option is a u/g Grow or Thresh deck, are either of these options acceptable to you? Also, what would your price range be?
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By the way sorry for taking so long to answer.
No problems on the length of time to answer thing. I was gone all weekend, so I just saw this.
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4 Delver of Secrets
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
4 Mental Note
3 Simic Charm
4 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Thought Scour
4 Vapor Snag
4 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
8 Island
I can go a different route as well, but this is what comes to mind when we talk about budget u/g thresh when you already have some of the cards.
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1) Considering you seem to want to achieve Threshold as soon as possible is Snapcaster Mage really a good option?
2) I'm very skeptical about Mental Note, Thought Scour and Werebear. Isn't Careful Study flat better than the first two? In my experience Blue mana is a lot more important to the deck than green one so I'm not sure about Werebear.
3) What about Wonder, Brawn, Genesis, Deep Analysis, Roar of the Wurm, Arrogant Wurm and Circular Logic.
4)Is graveyard hate going to be a problem? If so how can I improve my sideboard in order to fight it?
Also thanks for the idea!
Mental note could be replaced by careful study. I just included it as another set of thought scour, but I do think you want to keep one of them. This is a threshold deck without fetch lands after all. You are going to need all the help you can get. Werebear was included more so for the 2cmc 4/4 aspect rather than the mana. If you can think of a better beat stick feel free to use him. I figured he fit the thresh bill well, and the deck needs beat sticks.
Wonder should definitely be included, but I'm not sure about the rest. This is a threshold deck, not a madness deck. The two are actually pretty different, and of you try to combine them you will find you can't reach threshold (or madness mana cost) fast enough. Deep Analysis might be worth a try though.
graveyard hate might be a problem, but that's what blue is for. Just counter it. Or, if it comes in artifact or enchantment form, you are playing green, which has plenty of removal to pick from in that department.
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I been running into a decent amount of Burn on MTGO seems like that is the budget deck of choice.
@Spooky
You should be running Brainstorm and Ponder over Mental Note and Thoughtscour although Brainstorm loses effectiveness with no Fetchlands. Maybe Preordain instead. Daze is usually played but without duals and fetch lands you might not have an island early to capitalize. Might want to considering going Blue Red and you get lightning bolts, grim lavamancer and young pyromancer.
Daze is certainly an option, but like you said, it's difficult to know if it will be playable at all. Plus, having to re-play a shock land is pretty awkward.
I can't go R/U, but that's only because U/G is what was requested. Personally, I think R/U delver is a better deck on a budget, but we are trying what we can in U/G.
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Keeping with U/G Have you tried madness instead of thresh? Wold Mongrel, Aquameba, Arrogant Wurm, Circular Logic, Deep Analysis, Roar of the Wurm? Makes a really great VMA draft deck, not sure if it is good enough for legacy though. It used to be years ago though before there was a Delver of Secrets.
Big reason to go U/G is Tarmgoyf but it is expensive.
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Due to different supply/demand dynamics, MTGO's expensive cards are very different to those in paper - a playset of Wasteland actually costs more than a playset of revised duals, for instance. (That's an entire 40 card playset, not a playset of just one specific dual, but all of them combined). Vendillion Clique is out of consideration in a budget deck, but Jace, the Mind Sculptor is affordable even as a 4-of. And so on.
List:
3 Expedition Map
4 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle
//Creature (10)
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Crop Rotation
//Sorcery (9)
3 Into the North
2 Rite of Consumption
4 Sylvan Scrying
//Tribal Instant (2)
2 Not of This World
//Land (24)
4 City of Brass
4 Dark Depths
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Around $350, stands up to non FoW decks and some Stoneblade decks.\
And it's so fun to play.:)
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@Maerlin- it all depends on what you want to be doing. I personally would play 4 stifle, 4 charm, and keep it at that. Trickbind can do some nifty things though, so I would just weigh the benefits of playing it over reality ripple, or look at what you like better between it and charm. They all do something different. Look at your meta and decide. Remember that anything that phases out a permanent can get rid of a batterskull forever.
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