Really you dont change a lot. You play more g-breezy AKA Big dady G AKA Griselbrand because he's that good. Also, you replace Duress with Thoughtseize. You might lose Prowler for more Cabal Therapy, but I feel like that is a preference call. Anything else more to your budget and you may as well be splashing a color.
I'd like to test that version against the usual B/U version.
Go for it! You are faster, but I think they have more disruption than you...Which can be a big deal. I think it might come down to whoever boarded in Coffin Purge.
I really like Cabal Therapy in the list. I would have put it in if I had remembered...Just kind of added young P without thinking about anything else in the list.
I don't know about death's shadow in the deck. I do like Fire Covenant or Snuff Out for killing blockers, but overall death's shadow seems like it could just as easily be something else.
Another decent sized update! For a full low down just go to the updates and edits portion in the OP. I can say though, that I am really enjoying the new Gruul Aggro list in the Super Budget section!
Would anyone know if the $75 Eggs listed in the OP is still viable?
I'm ordering some cards and I have extra money, so I figured I could pick up my first Legacy deck.
This really depends on your meta. How much graveyard hate are you going to see? What about how much combo hate? Playing it in a blind meta may not be the best choice. However, it is a decently powerful and fun deck to play. What are you looking for in a combo deck?
Hi Spooky,
Just wanted to give a pointer on the Kiln Fiend combo deck. There are versions (mostly in Modern at a guess) that run Nivmagus Elemental in there, whether that's in place of Young Pyromancer or Flamekin Harbinger, it's really a judgment call. I think it should probably be in your list though!! IMO its stronger than flamekin, because you have 1 extra card in hand when you table your aggressive creature (flamekin is kinda card disadvantage in a deck like this).
Nice primer though, like it!
oh and is there a way to run the R storm deck without burning wish? Its hard to get for me, though looks like the only way to secure a kill card at present...
I have thought about nivmagus in the deck, and I think it is very strong. I kept myself from including it at the present because I recently wrote about Nivmagus in an article. I may make the change soon though, depending on the direction I want to take the deck. I know that there have been lists with tournament success that ran all 3 of kiln fiend, nivmagus and harbinger.
Red storm really only works with wish in my opinion. You are not in blue, so you have no card sorting, which means you have no way to find your kill cards easily. Wish gives you more copies of whatever you need at the time. The only other card I can think of to use in its place is Gamble, but card disadvantage in a storm deck seems pretty iffy to me.
Hey -spooky-
Great job, man. I've been following your articles for a long time. Sweet ideas for us who's more into magic for the fun of trying new stuff and synergies than just winning (eh, also I don't have the cash). Keep rocking!
I have a quick question, though. Which decklists do you think are most worked through - the ones in your articles, or the ones in this thread? You have a lot of the same decks (examples Polymorph, Living End, Phasenought, etc. etc. - I think actually almost all of them) but with small changes between dekclists written in articles and here. You don't have to be specific about every deck, just in general.
Again, great job man
This thread is something I use as a way to renew my lists, and put them up for everyone to see all in one place, along with all of its other purposes. Whenever I write up an article I put all the decks I write about in this primer as well. The big difference, and the reason you see changes in the lists, is that I can update this primer as time goes on. I cannot, however, update my articles. I like to think of this thread as a place where people can go to find up to date versions of everything I write about (among other things). Because of this, I would say that the lists here are probably better than the ones in my articles. As you can see in the changes and edits log I often change decks as time goes on, adding new cards and making changes based on additional testing etc.
Btw. what is the reason that you put Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth in several of your mono black decks? I tried to google how and why to use it, but I simply can't find out why it isnt just a normal swamp for you, and works as a mana fixer for your opponent if he plays splash black. You dont have any way to abuse it like Elesh Norn, grand cenobite + kormus Bell . Neither do you have creature with swampwalk or whatever. So why use it at all?
Oh and a small edit on your G/B Vengevine deck - you have 61 cards (25 creatures, where you write 24).
Thanks for pointing out the error, I'll go fix it asap!
As far as urborg goes, it depends on the list you look at, but usually the card is included in mono black decks that also run colorless lands like Ancient Tomb or Mishra's Factory. Many mono black decks run cards that cost double or more colored mana, and the colorless lands can prevent you from casting them from time to time. Urborg fixes this problem.
Quick question. On the Stiflenought deck, do you think it would be a good idea for me to sub 4x Snapcaster Mage in for the 4x Spellstutter Sprite if I have them or do they work out well for you in practice?
Snapcaster Mage is a card that is used more so in control decks. The card takes a lot of mana (untapped mana at that) to be useful. Hard core control decks that run 24+ lands use him well. The stiflenought deck however, is a sort of combo deck way before it is a control deck. It has a low land count, and for the most part wants to cast its spells on its own turn. It is my belief that you will never have the mana to be able to use snappy to his full potential.
Sprite on the other hand takes half the mana, and can protect your dreadnought without you needing a protection spell in the yard.
I use prowler in the varolz combo deck because it has evasion, and is more powerful than troll in terms of power. Troll requires you to discard multiple cards before he gets big, but we are not playing a super graveyard based deck. You will rarely make the troll worth it. Basically, prowler is good alone, troll is not.
Storehouse is a card that I have recently become familiar with. I did not test it, but I can't see why it wouldn't be fine as a one of. I like the card.
Hey, I'm looking for something more of a primer on the mono black Reanimator deck. I'm not terribly familiar with legacy, I've played legacy with friends a few times (borrowed DnT) and enjoyed it. I like the look of Tinfins so I was drawn to the budget version. I'm honestly not that familiar with the deck though. All I know is to dump a fatty in the GY and get it back with a reanimation spell.
for the most part, this is all there is to it. Which fatty you grab depends on what deck you are playing against, but it should be pretty easy to figure out what goes against what. For example, Stormtide Leviathan should obviously be grabbed against an aggro deck. The deck is more so reliant on its speed and "gotta risk it for the biscuit" approach, so much of the strategy is turning fatties sideways. Any real strategy comes from specific situations in specific matchups. Do you have any specific questions? Why some fatties are used? Anything like that?
for the most part, this is all there is to it. Which fatty you grab depends on what deck you are playing against, but it should be pretty easy to figure out what goes against what. For example, Stormtide Leviathan should obviously be grabbed against an aggro deck. The deck is more so reliant on its speed and "gotta risk it for the biscuit" approach, so much of the strategy is turning fatties sideways. Any real strategy comes from specific situations in specific matchups. Do you have any specific questions? Why some fatties are used? Anything like that?
I guess my questions would be more along the lines of how do you know when to go for it? In a format where everyone plays blue and you have to worry about Force and Daze and the like it just seems really risky to just go for it all the time.
Playing discard is your main tell. Knowing what is in their hand, and then getting rid of relevant cards, is the decks biggest defense. You can also play Gitaxian Probe if you felt the need. Learning to read your opponent and what decks you are playing against at any given time is a skill that comes with time, but also essential to the game in general. With a combo deck like this however, it is almost always best to go off as soon as possible. This is of course, only true if you think you need to (like a turn 1 fatty) or you don't have discard in hand. Better to do something than nothing.
I don't like Aura Gnarly's inclusion in the super-budget section. It seems like it is unable to beat anything and it is basically a budget version of a Pauper deck.
-spooky-, I love this thread because the possibilities but are you going to update your decks and take some out or in?
If you check the updates and edits log you can see that I update pretty regularly. Of course, I am due for an update soon, but keeping track of this primer, 2 article series, and real life, all at once can create some lag. I'll get on it as soon as I can.
I don't like Aura Gnarly's inclusion in the super-budget section. It seems like it is unable to beat anything and it is basically a budget version of a Pauper deck.
I actually tested the deck quite a bit when I first wrote about it. It surprisingly held its own against a few decks. I can't see it ever winning any tournaments, but when a 20 dollar deck beats u/w stoneblade and RUG Delver from time to time you know its got some kind of potential. This was a long time ago, sure, but I don't see why I can't still include it as an option for players. As with every deck on the list, I would suggest players proxy it out and test it before they spend any money. I liked it enough to buy it, but that doesn't mean everyone will, and I'm okay with that.
made a huge mistake of getting excited to take a goblins list to the 2 man cues i found a list i liked and trying to get everything for it up until fetchlands because I wanted to try it out see if i liked the client and see if i liked the deck plus the majority of the deck had me about 45 dollars out of pocket. Well learned the legacy community is super rough to new/returning players. Sorry about the rant it just kind of blown away at how people are in this game now and how it was alot more enjoyable when i was younger. Is this a common complaint or is it just be running into crappy people.
I feel like there are all kinds of crappy people out there. If you asked me on a personal level, I might be inclined to say that most people in the world are crappy. I don't think it should discourage you from playing this format though. You just have to find the people that are good. Are you playing Legacy on a competitive level, or just for fun? I can tell you that for whatever reason Legacy players are very competitive, which may lead into the reactions that you got. Again, just fright through the crappy people and you should find some better ones. Don't let a few bad eggs ruin the whole experience for you.
Hmmm, Perhaps something like this?
3 Ad Nauseam
3 Angel's Grace
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Cunning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lotus Petal
2 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Sickening Dreams
1 Silence
2 Orim's Chant
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Ebon Stronghold
1 Scrubland
1 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
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Not a problem, good luck with the deck!
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Hmmm, that's a good question. Probably something close to this...
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Putrid Imp
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Oona's Prowler
2 Animate Dead
3 Buried Alive
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughseize
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Lotus Petal
4 Reanimate
14 Swamp
Really you dont change a lot. You play more g-breezy AKA Big dady G AKA Griselbrand because he's that good. Also, you replace Duress with Thoughtseize. You might lose Prowler for more Cabal Therapy, but I feel like that is a preference call. Anything else more to your budget and you may as well be splashing a color.
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Go for it! You are faster, but I think they have more disruption than you...Which can be a big deal. I think it might come down to whoever boarded in Coffin Purge.
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I don't know about death's shadow in the deck. I do like Fire Covenant or Snuff Out for killing blockers, but overall death's shadow seems like it could just as easily be something else.
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I'm ordering some cards and I have extra money, so I figured I could pick up my first Legacy deck.
This really depends on your meta. How much graveyard hate are you going to see? What about how much combo hate? Playing it in a blind meta may not be the best choice. However, it is a decently powerful and fun deck to play. What are you looking for in a combo deck?
I have thought about nivmagus in the deck, and I think it is very strong. I kept myself from including it at the present because I recently wrote about Nivmagus in an article. I may make the change soon though, depending on the direction I want to take the deck. I know that there have been lists with tournament success that ran all 3 of kiln fiend, nivmagus and harbinger.
Red storm really only works with wish in my opinion. You are not in blue, so you have no card sorting, which means you have no way to find your kill cards easily. Wish gives you more copies of whatever you need at the time. The only other card I can think of to use in its place is Gamble, but card disadvantage in a storm deck seems pretty iffy to me.
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This thread is something I use as a way to renew my lists, and put them up for everyone to see all in one place, along with all of its other purposes. Whenever I write up an article I put all the decks I write about in this primer as well. The big difference, and the reason you see changes in the lists, is that I can update this primer as time goes on. I cannot, however, update my articles. I like to think of this thread as a place where people can go to find up to date versions of everything I write about (among other things). Because of this, I would say that the lists here are probably better than the ones in my articles. As you can see in the changes and edits log I often change decks as time goes on, adding new cards and making changes based on additional testing etc.
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Thanks for pointing out the error, I'll go fix it asap!
As far as urborg goes, it depends on the list you look at, but usually the card is included in mono black decks that also run colorless lands like Ancient Tomb or Mishra's Factory. Many mono black decks run cards that cost double or more colored mana, and the colorless lands can prevent you from casting them from time to time. Urborg fixes this problem.
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Quick question. On the Stiflenought deck, do you think it would be a good idea for me to sub 4x Snapcaster Mage in for the 4x Spellstutter Sprite if I have them or do they work out well for you in practice?
Thanks!
Also, is there any reason you use Oona's Prowler over Lotleth Troll in Varolz Combo? Just curious. I think it would be fun to add a Shizo, Death's Storehouse also.
Sales Thread!
Sprite on the other hand takes half the mana, and can protect your dreadnought without you needing a protection spell in the yard.
I use prowler in the varolz combo deck because it has evasion, and is more powerful than troll in terms of power. Troll requires you to discard multiple cards before he gets big, but we are not playing a super graveyard based deck. You will rarely make the troll worth it. Basically, prowler is good alone, troll is not.
Storehouse is a card that I have recently become familiar with. I did not test it, but I can't see why it wouldn't be fine as a one of. I like the card.
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This is the only thread that I know of.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26756-Deck-Cunning-Nausea&highlight=cunning+Angel%27s+Grace
You could try to make your own, if you are interested.
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I guess my questions would be more along the lines of how do you know when to go for it? In a format where everyone plays blue and you have to worry about Force and Daze and the like it just seems really risky to just go for it all the time.
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Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
If you check the updates and edits log you can see that I update pretty regularly. Of course, I am due for an update soon, but keeping track of this primer, 2 article series, and real life, all at once can create some lag. I'll get on it as soon as I can.
I actually tested the deck quite a bit when I first wrote about it. It surprisingly held its own against a few decks. I can't see it ever winning any tournaments, but when a 20 dollar deck beats u/w stoneblade and RUG Delver from time to time you know its got some kind of potential. This was a long time ago, sure, but I don't see why I can't still include it as an option for players. As with every deck on the list, I would suggest players proxy it out and test it before they spend any money. I liked it enough to buy it, but that doesn't mean everyone will, and I'm okay with that.
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