In my meta, there's a particular show and tell (dream halls / Omnishow) player I have trouble with. Normally I can handle show and tell (playing mono-white, so I have access to Oblivion Ring and Karakas which seem to do the job against every other SNT deck in my meta)
The thing is, after side boarding, he brings in Trickbind and Stifle which prevent O-Ring from being any good
While Ethersworn Canonist can buy me a turn or two (he's on the Enter the Infinite -> Red Burn spell kill) it's probably not going to get me there, so I'm looking for something which can deal with omniscience and get around stifle/trickbind.
Anyone got any suggestions for a card in mono-white that would help in this situation?
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This works against Emrakul, but not so much against Omniscience into Enter the Infinite or Burning Wish. It also seems like a bad idea if he's running an aggro deck.
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Seems worse than just doing the Canonist. Canonist comes in for free off of SnT whereas you still have to resolve silence. And Canonist can actually stop the petals of insight combo, whereas silence only delays it a turn.
O-ring and D-sphere are both good choices against Show & Tell strategies in general. Angel of Despair is also a good aggressive option too. Note that all of these lose to Stifle, but the likelihood that the S&T player has all three -- S&T, Omniscience, Stifle + a way to win after all that exchange, is generally low.
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Against show and tell specifically people have been using venser, shaper savant and or angel of despair. They both have some come into play effects that can deal with anything that gets put into play off of show and tell. There are more like humility but it does not deal with the omniscience aspect of the deck.
Really S&T is a bad match up for aggro decks. Don't be upset that you lose fairly often.
Nevermore sounds quite strong. Name enter the infinite I guess. Yeah I can accept that S&T is a hard matchup for Death and Taxes. But sometimes you can steal games if you have the right hate at the right times
Ethersworn Canonist also helps a bunch, stopping him from being able to play anything after a resolved show and tell.
If his showed permanent is omniscience, he only needs 5 mana total to show+stifle it (through a thalia). However that being said, 5 mana is a lot and DNT should be able to keep a deck off 5 mana for extended periods of time - I guess I just got unlucky and saw no thalia in 3 games
As I mentioned in the OP - Canonist helps but its only buying 2 turns tops.
O-ring and D-sphere are both good choices against Show & Tell strategies in general. Angel of Despair is also a good aggressive option too. Note that all of these lose to Stifle, but the likelihood that the S&T player has all three -- S&T, Omniscience, Stifle + a way to win after all that exchange, is generally low.
Low probability or not, it still happened... twice. I had the Oring and he had the stifle - I was just curious to see if there was a way around it which is why I specifically asked for something that got around stifle.
Against show and tell specifically people have been using venser, shaper savant and or angel of despair. They both have some come into play effects that can deal with anything that gets put into play off of show and tell. There are more like humility but it does not deal with the omniscience aspect of the deck.
Like I mentioned, the problem was with Stifle - which answers both of those cards - also, I'd prefer if the solution was mono-white so it can be hardcast or have use against other decks
This works against Emrakul, but not so much against Omniscience into Enter the Infinite or Burning Wish. It also seems like a bad idea if he's running an aggro deck.
You have access to Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist. There's really no way he can storm you at that point.
The problem with this discussion is that one hate card won't make this matchup winnable for D&T. It's a general sideboard plan that's needed to compliment your ORing strategy. One angle of attack is not enough. You need disruption an a clock. SFM is too slow, but something like Jotun Grunt can help.
Also, you do have organic ways around the Stifle, such as Flickerwisp on the ORIng in response or Mangara backup. The mana denial plan can be enough to get that online.
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Flickerwisp on O-Ring doesn't help if they go off that turn.
Like Lord McDonalds said, Confusion In the Ranks with a guy out is the best side card for the matchup. It's not foolproof, and it's basically useless everywhere else, but this is also a bad matchup. You're really not supposed to win, pre- or post-board. I'm not saying you should give up, but you also can't let it bother you when you play correctly and lose anyway.
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Paraphrasing:
OP: I play mono white. I lose to stifle on my o ring. Opponent wins with targeted damage
Suggestion: leyline of sanctity
OP: yes, that is what I'm after
Result, thread over. Discussion on everything not related to OP's question can move elsewhere.
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
While Ethersworn Canonist can buy me a turn or two (he's on the Enter the Infinite -> Red Burn spell kill) it's probably not going to get me there, so I'm looking for something which can deal with omniscience and get around stifle/trickbind.
Also makes me think a lot of TL;DR goes on
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
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Paraphrasing:
OP: I play mono white. I lose to stifle on my o ring. Opponent wins with targeted damage
Suggestion: leyline of sanctity
OP: yes, that is what I'm after
Result, thread over. Discussion on everything not related to OP's question can move elsewhere.
Leyline is only a band-aid solution. It will work exactly once before the S&T player sides in Wipe Away or other bounce, or starts running bounce in a Wishboard. You have to treat the disease and not the symptom.
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The thing is, after side boarding, he brings in Trickbind and Stifle which prevent O-Ring from being any good
While Ethersworn Canonist can buy me a turn or two (he's on the Enter the Infinite -> Red Burn spell kill) it's probably not going to get me there, so I'm looking for something which can deal with omniscience and get around stifle/trickbind.
Anyone got any suggestions for a card in mono-white that would help in this situation?
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RX Godo Mud
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Really S&T is a bad match up for aggro decks. Don't be upset that you lose fairly often.
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Ethersworn Canonist also helps a bunch, stopping him from being able to play anything after a resolved show and tell.
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This works against Emrakul, but not so much against Omniscience into Enter the Infinite or Burning Wish. It also seems like a bad idea if he's running an aggro deck.
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Leyline! Yes I think that's the one I'm going to end up using
Nevermore sounds quite strong. Name enter the infinite I guess. Yeah I can accept that S&T is a hard matchup for Death and Taxes. But sometimes you can steal games if you have the right hate at the right times
If his showed permanent is omniscience, he only needs 5 mana total to show+stifle it (through a thalia). However that being said, 5 mana is a lot and DNT should be able to keep a deck off 5 mana for extended periods of time - I guess I just got unlucky and saw no thalia in 3 games
As I mentioned in the OP - Canonist helps but its only buying 2 turns tops.
Low probability or not, it still happened... twice. I had the Oring and he had the stifle - I was just curious to see if there was a way around it which is why I specifically asked for something that got around stifle.
Like I mentioned, the problem was with Stifle - which answers both of those cards - also, I'd prefer if the solution was mono-white so it can be hardcast or have use against other decks
Just maybe... I'll give it a go and hope he doesn't have the counters.
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BUG Team America
W Death and Taxes
RX Godo Mud
You have access to Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist. There's really no way he can storm you at that point.
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Yes this works.
Also, you do have organic ways around the Stifle, such as Flickerwisp on the ORIng in response or Mangara backup. The mana denial plan can be enough to get that online.
Like Lord McDonalds said, Confusion In the Ranks with a guy out is the best side card for the matchup. It's not foolproof, and it's basically useless everywhere else, but this is also a bad matchup. You're really not supposed to win, pre- or post-board. I'm not saying you should give up, but you also can't let it bother you when you play correctly and lose anyway.
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- Imperial Bloodwolf R
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- 10 Land Stompy G
- Zoo (budget) RGW
OP: I play mono white. I lose to stifle on my o ring. Opponent wins with targeted damage
Suggestion: leyline of sanctity
OP: yes, that is what I'm after
Result, thread over. Discussion on everything not related to OP's question can move elsewhere.
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Trade Thread
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RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
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BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
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GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
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UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
Also makes me think a lot of TL;DR goes on
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UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Anything outside of Show and Tell combo, or outside of this matchup?
Card is pretty gnarly against most every S&T variant but hive mind.
Leyline is only a band-aid solution. It will work exactly once before the S&T player sides in Wipe Away or other bounce, or starts running bounce in a Wishboard. You have to treat the disease and not the symptom.
True, if he has all the cards for the combo you probably need more cards to interact or stops him.