I like Frontier because I loved the Izzet Artifacts deck that was present in M15 - KTK Standard, and now I get to play it, except with some awesome additions like Spirebluff Canal and Bomat Courier. You just can't play a deck like that in Modern and expect to be competitive in any sense.
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I've seen people drawn to it because of the much lower cost compared to modern (no Zendikar fetches, goyf, shocks etc.) Also, it doesn't rotate like standard does, so it can give people a place to play cards that have recently rotated. It also gives people a place to keep playing decks that they've enjoyed from recent standards, such as abzan variants (aggro, midrange and control lists), rally and atarka red. I don't know the meta all too well so I can't say what's actively being played right now
To me, if I was to get into the format, I'd like the fact that it's still relatively unsolved.
I'll reply to everyone here on very simple terms: It will ALWAYS be cheaper than Modern because both formats' prices will shift up and down very similarly as upcoming cards crept into the way. Also, and I want people to notice this, unlikely Frontier will accept Modern Masters. I think of it as an eternal Standard, as the whole Origins thing and the change of rhythm in Standard may signify a change in approach to the cards that will eventually become part of the cardpools of both Modern and Frontier. If they keep Modern Masters outside of Frontier, or any other supplemental thing, it will be a different format, loser to what Extended was
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Actually, Frontier will always be cheaper than modern because the cards in the set are printed at much higher print runs, at least up to this point. With Amonkhet now coming out it looks like zombies finally got the support it needs and red got more toolbox cards to work with.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Colt you say those are "problem cards" but those kind of cards add diversity and flavor to a format. If you remove them you don't have anything but a standard type gameplay with a larger card pool. That sounds like a very niche group of people who that appeals to who just love Standard but hate their cards to rotate. Basically you told me the appeal is you don't have to think as hard as Modern on how to approach your matches.
I don't play Frontier and don't plan to anytime soon, but I think you just accidentally identified the draw to the format in this post. It's standard game-play, sure, but your cards don't rotate. The second part there is key. Of course this is the reason it likely won't get WOTC support, but I can see the appeal from a player perspective.
Colt you say those are "problem cards" but those kind of cards add diversity and flavor to a format. If you remove them you don't have anything but a standard type gameplay with a larger card pool. That sounds like a very niche group of people who that appeals to who just love Standard but hate their cards to rotate. Basically you told me the appeal is you don't have to think as hard as Modern on how to approach your matches.
I don't play Frontier and don't plan to anytime soon, but I think you just accidentally identified the draw to the format in this post. It's standard game-play, sure, but your cards don't rotate. The second part there is key. Of course this is the reason it likely won't get WOTC support, but I can see the appeal from a player perspective.
Frontier itself will grow in popularity with time if wizards doesn't create a new format themselves. I tend to view it as the precursor to a new official format since we had a similar thing happen with extended. However, it plays nothing like standard. Also there is not a whole lot of thinking in modern anyway so I'm not really sure where Hasp is coming from on that other than to make snide remarks. The big issue is that modern players are extremely defensive about the format they play due to the costs of playing the format and the fear that the value of their cards will drop drastically if the format were to play second fiddle to another one. Frontier is just like modern was before it got too many powerful cards into the pool, so it tends to have a far more varied load out of competitive T1 decks than modern ever will at this point.
Modern just isn't what it used to be. It was at it's peak back around Zendikar / Scars and then quickly started dropping off the deep end as more sets got released.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It may help if we could get 10 really well written primers in the Proven section of the site to help legitimize it in the eyes of the competitive community.
I would suggest:
1. Grixis Control
2. Esper Dragons
3. Rally
4. CopyCat
5. Abzan Midrange
6. Bant Company
7. U/R/x Ensoul
8. R/x Aggro
9. G/B/x Scales
10. Aetherworks Marvel
CopyCat has two main archetypes:
1. Control (Torrential Gearhulk + DTT) - often adds black for removal / Tasigur
2. Value (ETB effects) - often adds Green for Oath of Nissa
They could be put into the same primer for now.
Of the ones listed I play CopyCat, Abzan, and Esper Dragons
We would need permissions from a Mod to post those there and probably a justification on why those decks are selected.
I think the allure of "frontier" is people get to play with cards that rotated out of standard and are no longer good enough in Modern.
Like Coco + Siege Rhino. Or Baby Jace.
To me though, it simply looks like a new version of extended. Not a fan. The whole point of frontier was to sell cards.
EXCEPT the reason why some people prefer Frontier right now is because Modern has a lot of experimental features from before M15 that end up being under used or just broken.
Besides, Modern can end in a couple turns with the proper cards and most of those are pre-M15. Konami, the owners of Yu-Gi-Oh!, also think their game is too fast, which is why they are trying to slow things up with a new mechanic and the whole change of rules (ironically, they had previously ACCELERATED the game with the last mechanic and change of rules...) Frontier, given the card pools, can end up being a slightly slower Modern, enough to play more turns.
Personally, most of my losses come in Modern by facing control cards that are pretty much broken. The thing about Frontier is that a lot of cards from Modern tend to be better adjusted versions of Modern cards that allow for slower play. Finally, if Frontier is like Commander, the banlist would be better adjusted because it would be kept by an unofficial source closer to the game (as far as I remember, the site mtgcommander.com has the banlist for commander, maybe a similar one can be used for frontier?)
Personally, we can try another thing for frontier, just to make it feel different (you may know where I'm pulling these rules from):
-We can change the card-in-deck limits to Maximum of 3 copies of any non-basic card instead of 4, Minimum of 40 instead of 60 and/or 5 cards in hand at start instead of seven.
-We can begins with some lands already in play before the first draw, maybe 3 each. These lands can't be changed by Mulligan.
-Any other ideas?
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I agree with all of that, actually. Anyway, at the moment no banlist works well, given most of the banned cards on Modern are not Frontier-Legal.
This is what I got so far:
All expansions/core sets from M15 onwards are in, the Intro Packs/Planeswalker decks from after M15 are in, also the sample packs from Origins and the Welcome 2016. The Masterpiece cards, however, are not into it unless they are added in any of the aforementioned packs.
Also, right now the format is Casual, so we dunno what may happen...
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A: Play cards that they do not regularly see. B: Play slower and more turns/game. C: Have a diverse meta with a lot of synergies.
Why don't they just play regular highlander, or Modern highlander?
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
A: Play cards that they do not regularly see. B: Play slower and more turns/game. C: Have a diverse meta with a lot of synergies.
Why don't they just play regular highlander, or Modern highlander?
Eh....
Here's the deal, Frontier isn't very diverse at all. Whatever was best in standard because of no answers is good in Frontier. I've had enough of seeing/hearing CopyCats, CoCo, 4 color rally, and Jace for my fill thank you very much. Quite frankly, I'll just pass. It isn't diverse, there's a high percentage of overpowered/broken cards like Dig, Cruise, and a perfect manabase with no proper hate...
Yes, I'm agreeing with you here.
Highlander slow? Feh... It's vintage lite. Least here people don't care if you play gold bordered and proxied and CE cards.
Never seen the pull to modern highlander either....
With all that said, Frontier is an intriguing format. Played it a bit, and immediately left because I really didn't want to deal with the stupid combos and decks that got me bored with standard in the first place involved in the format.
If they printed proper land hate for the format things like Ghost Quarter amd Tectonic Edge i would play it. I feel otherwise it will devolve into a couple good decks probably all 4-5 Color variations of one another. New formats are awesome, but you need proper hate to keep everything in check. Till then all i gotta play is Jund/x so i can play Rabble into Rhino which usually ends up winning me the game on the spot.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
A: Play cards that they do not regularly see. B: Play slower and more turns/game. C: Have a diverse meta with a lot of synergies.
Why don't they just play regular highlander, or Modern highlander?
I don't know about highlander, but EDH is the most boring format I have ever played. Very few viable decks and tons of "most have" cards.
Eh.... Only if you think in terms of cEDH, which a social casual format it is not. I have my hyper decks, but I have some decks that's at most 100 dollars and very fun to play and at a casual level where nobody is trying for an infinite combo by turn 3 it becomes really fun. Almost as fun as pauper EDH... Only format I find boring is standard, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.
So did this format die faster than Tiny Leaders did?
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
That sounds like a very niche group of people who that appeals to who just love Standard but hate their cards to rotate. Basically you told me the appeal is you don't have to think as hard as Modern on how to approach your matches.
I think this is a much larger demographic than you do!
I like Legacy because the matches are very different and I need to adjust my strategy drastically from match to match. Other people would rather approach every match with a similar strategy and instead focus exclusively on tight, tactical play. Different strokes, right?
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Thnkr's Content: Gameplay – Datasheet
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To me, if I was to get into the format, I'd like the fact that it's still relatively unsolved.
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My decks:
(R/G)Atarka, the Beastly Dragon Call (EDH)(R/G)
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Frontier itself will grow in popularity with time if wizards doesn't create a new format themselves. I tend to view it as the precursor to a new official format since we had a similar thing happen with extended. However, it plays nothing like standard. Also there is not a whole lot of thinking in modern anyway so I'm not really sure where Hasp is coming from on that other than to make snide remarks. The big issue is that modern players are extremely defensive about the format they play due to the costs of playing the format and the fear that the value of their cards will drop drastically if the format were to play second fiddle to another one. Frontier is just like modern was before it got too many powerful cards into the pool, so it tends to have a far more varied load out of competitive T1 decks than modern ever will at this point.
Modern just isn't what it used to be. It was at it's peak back around Zendikar / Scars and then quickly started dropping off the deep end as more sets got released.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I would suggest:
1. Grixis Control
2. Esper Dragons
3. Rally
4. CopyCat
5. Abzan Midrange
6. Bant Company
7. U/R/x Ensoul
8. R/x Aggro
9. G/B/x Scales
10. Aetherworks Marvel
1. Control (Torrential Gearhulk + DTT) - often adds black for removal / Tasigur
2. Value (ETB effects) - often adds Green for Oath of Nissa
They could be put into the same primer for now.
Of the ones listed I play CopyCat, Abzan, and Esper Dragons
We would need permissions from a Mod to post those there and probably a justification on why those decks are selected.
Like Coco + Siege Rhino. Or Baby Jace.
To me though, it simply looks like a new version of extended. Not a fan. The whole point of frontier was to sell cards.
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Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Besides, Modern can end in a couple turns with the proper cards and most of those are pre-M15. Konami, the owners of Yu-Gi-Oh!, also think their game is too fast, which is why they are trying to slow things up with a new mechanic and the whole change of rules (ironically, they had previously ACCELERATED the game with the last mechanic and change of rules...) Frontier, given the card pools, can end up being a slightly slower Modern, enough to play more turns.
Personally, most of my losses come in Modern by facing control cards that are pretty much broken. The thing about Frontier is that a lot of cards from Modern tend to be better adjusted versions of Modern cards that allow for slower play. Finally, if Frontier is like Commander, the banlist would be better adjusted because it would be kept by an unofficial source closer to the game (as far as I remember, the site mtgcommander.com has the banlist for commander, maybe a similar one can be used for frontier?)
Personally, we can try another thing for frontier, just to make it feel different (you may know where I'm pulling these rules from):
-We can change the card-in-deck limits to Maximum of 3 copies of any non-basic card instead of 4, Minimum of 40 instead of 60 and/or 5 cards in hand at start instead of seven.
-We can begins with some lands already in play before the first draw, maybe 3 each. These lands can't be changed by Mulligan.
-Any other ideas?
Forum Set Make!
(W/B)(U/R)(B/G)(R/W)(G/U)Mornad Broken (Active)(W/B)(U/R)(B/G)(R/W)(G/U)
My decks:
(R/G)Atarka, the Beastly Dragon Call (EDH)(R/G)
This is what I got so far:
All expansions/core sets from M15 onwards are in, the Intro Packs/Planeswalker decks from after M15 are in, also the sample packs from Origins and the Welcome 2016. The Masterpiece cards, however, are not into it unless they are added in any of the aforementioned packs.
Also, right now the format is Casual, so we dunno what may happen...
Forum Set Make!
(W/B)(U/R)(B/G)(R/W)(G/U)Mornad Broken (Active)(W/B)(U/R)(B/G)(R/W)(G/U)
My decks:
(R/G)Atarka, the Beastly Dragon Call (EDH)(R/G)
A: Play cards that they do not regularly see.
B: Play slower and more turns/game.
C: Have a diverse meta with a lot of synergies.
Why don't they just play regular highlander, or Modern highlander?
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Eh....
Here's the deal, Frontier isn't very diverse at all. Whatever was best in standard because of no answers is good in Frontier. I've had enough of seeing/hearing CopyCats, CoCo, 4 color rally, and Jace for my fill thank you very much. Quite frankly, I'll just pass. It isn't diverse, there's a high percentage of overpowered/broken cards like Dig, Cruise, and a perfect manabase with no proper hate...
Yes, I'm agreeing with you here.
Highlander slow? Feh... It's vintage lite. Least here people don't care if you play gold bordered and proxied and CE cards.
Never seen the pull to modern highlander either....
With all that said, Frontier is an intriguing format. Played it a bit, and immediately left because I really didn't want to deal with the stupid combos and decks that got me bored with standard in the first place involved in the format.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I don't know about highlander, but EDH is the most boring format I have ever played. Very few viable decks and tons of "most have" cards.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Eh.... Only if you think in terms of cEDH, which a social casual format it is not. I have my hyper decks, but I have some decks that's at most 100 dollars and very fun to play and at a casual level where nobody is trying for an infinite combo by turn 3 it becomes really fun. Almost as fun as pauper EDH... Only format I find boring is standard, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
If you've been playing for 3 or 4 years you won't have opened a lot of Modern staples, but you might have a good foot in the door for Frontier.
I think this is a much larger demographic than you do!
I like Legacy because the matches are very different and I need to adjust my strategy drastically from match to match. Other people would rather approach every match with a similar strategy and instead focus exclusively on tight, tactical play. Different strokes, right?
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RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats