Hello! I've decided that I would like to craft a series of Horde decks to create a semi-narrative dungeon crawl style experience to play out with my friends. We all love roleplaying games and I'm the only one with a considerable magic collection, but I thought this would be a great way for them to play and get our RPG fix. I'd love input on the staging, the plot, progression mechanics, and of course the decks themselves!
SO, part one: The players. It is my intention to create four EDH decks that will start off weak and somewhat small, and grow with each Horde deck the party defeats. It will be a four man party with a "Fighter," "Rogue," "Cleric," and "Wizard." As classic dungeon crawls often are. My preliminary thought was to create those Tiny Leader style decks or perhaps Pauper versions. So that cards could be added and swapped five or ten at a time and "Level Up" as we go through the Hordes. So with the constraints of Pauper Tiny Leader decks, I will catalog the versions here, as well as the "Level Up Packs" as they're made.
Our party:
Fighter McSwordmen
So we approach Fighter McSwordmen relatively straightforward. He needs to be an impressive combatant, takes hits like a champ and dishes 'em out just as well. And the McSwordmen's are a clever clan of warriors, so he's got some tricks up his sleeve as well. To me, this screams RWx Voltron general. Perhaps a MonoRed Arena Athlete or Barbarian General that evolves into a Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer or Godo, Bandit Warlord? A MonoWhite Ajani's Pridemate that becomes Jazal Goldmane?Or maybe something else, Aggro players, help me out.
Rouge the Sneak
Here we have a tricky bugger from the wrong side of the law that sometimes dishes out nasty surprises to pull his pals out of a tight spot. UB Faeries or something similar seems apt, perhaps with a small Trap theme for flavor? Eventually it could become Wydwen, the Biting Gale tempo/control or Sygg, River Cutthroat aggro-control.
Clerical Error
A champion of Divine Justice, our Cleric is clearly MonoWhite. I suppose something could be said for another color added in there, maybe a RW war cleric, or a BW cleric whose gotten a bit too cozy with the undead they're fighting. But MonoWhite strikes me as best. A healthy amount of lifegain and damage reduction, some Protection from Blank effects, and the divine might of god fearing men and women and strong armed angels gives us a Timmy-tastic midrange deck led by, perhaps a Devout Chaplain that grows in Divine Might until they're a healing Master.
Wizardy Herbert
Here we have the quintessential "I can do anything" character because the game designers decided that's what they liked so it'd be the best. In that same vein it will be using Blue! Counterspells, Card Draw, Bounce, any sort of dumb tricks and perhaps some red or black for the high impact Fireball and such. Eventually they will come into their prime as a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, or a even a Nekusar, the Mindrazer.
NOW part two, the stuff you were probably waiting for when you saw this: The Horde Decks! That's right decks. I'm going to need your help to develop escalating Horde decks that the players can confront at their growing power levels with some continuity between them and a decent narrative to go along with it. I'm thinking up through ten levels to really get a good stretch of time out of the story, and by the end of the "episodes" there should be a fully functioning Horde deck and four passable to good EDH decks that I can gift to my friends for normal play, so that seems like the perfect time to evolve 50 commons into 100 decent cards.
HORDE DECKS:
LEVEL 1
So we start here! A normal deck is designed for 400 vs 100, so this would be, perhaps 200 vs 50, though 60 would maintain the 11:9 token:spell ratio, so that seems better.. That strikes me as sufficiently stacked in the players favor, so that we can give them a good cushion to figure out the rules and their decks, if we make this one easy and just don't give them a level up pack, it's like a tutorial level.
With the constant influx of Zombies, I feel like the weaker threats will still at least pose an issue, and as for special rules:
Infest does not affect the Horde
LEVEL 2
LEVEL 3
LEVEL 4
LEVEL 5
LEVEL 6
LEVEL 7
LEVEL 8
LEVEL 9
LEVEL 10
The narrative:
I'm not great, especially not if I don't have some prompting, so I'm going to be drawing upon all of you! Let's see what you have to say about these four intrepid heroes and their misadventures against the slowly growing zombie hordes. Can they stop the mass of undead? Can they find the source of it all? Can they save the world from utter destruction? Find out next week on "TALES OF THE HORDE!"
So there we have it! The beginnings of my spiffy Dungeon Crawl, here's a reservation in case we go deep, which I hope we do! I look forward to input, I'll be crafting stacks in the mean time.
Very cool concept. I like the idea of "pre-rolled" characters that have an opportunity to evolve as they level up through the adventure. I played around with some ideas for an EDH-RPG a while ago but never had a chance to really test it out. Here are a few I came up with that might work in yours:
Players maintained their life totals through each encounter and kept cards in their graveyards/exile zone throughout the adventure until they were able to rest overnight. Cards would then be shuffled back in & life totals reset at that point. This was intended to be similar to how spell users in D&D have to re-memorize their spells after using them.
Players could change out cards in their decks in between encounters during the adventure on a one-for-one basis by purchasing new cards from the local shop keep. Normally the power level of those spells varied based on how far along they were in the adventure. They would start out with access to a few commons & uncommons and later be able to acquire rares & mythic cards. Additionally, helpful cards, gold, or items key to the story would drop from the hordes they defeated along the way.
Including a "lower level minion" and an "end boss" in the story that the party would have to defeat. Both were represented by commander decks that shared at least one color (the end boss was generally a 2 or 3 color deck and the more powerful of the two). Both would command a horde deck that the players would have to defeat alongside the minion/boss deck. Players would have to defeat the minion before moving on to the final dungeon with the end boss.
Love the idea of leveling up your decks/commanders! I'm actually working on something like that now but my version's really... really-really-really complicated and I'm struggling to simplify it so let's not go there...
Reviewing what you've got:
I like the idea but careful about "leveling up" your commanders. You'll have to make sure the new version is strictly better than the old version. Example: ajani's pridemate is a very good creature, just ask anyone who's ever had it and a soul warden on the field at the same time. I'm not sure I'd consider something so inexpensive and potentially game breaking a strict downgrade from jazal goldmane (depends entirely on the kind of deck you're making, but jazal is a lot more expensive to cast and use). Just make sure the basic version's good enough you won't get complaints, but not too good.
Anyway, my suggestion: if you're going to call it a dungeon crawl, you should have some way to "open doors" and "search for treasure." Maybe you could have a secondary "treasure deck" that players can attack instead of going after the horde? Damage dealt to the "treasure deck" causes the deck to be milled (cards go from library to graveyard). The deck would be mostly dead cards (basic lands, tokens, whatever you've got lying around so long as everyone understands what they're meant to represent) along with some "treasure" cards for players to loot (artifacts, life gaining sorceries, whatever) and some traps (damaging spells the deck aims at the player who set it off and some beneficial spells for the Horde to cast). It'd probably be a good idea to label treasure as treasure and traps as traps, so no one gets confused.
It's my turn. I have a mono-Red warrior deck and a Lizard Warrior in play, along with whatever else. I can attack the Horde but instead I choose to "search for treasure," which i do by attacking the treasure deck with my lizard warrior. It deals 4 damage and the treasure deck sends 4 cards to the graveyard from its library. 3 are dead cards, 1 is a Fire Diamond, which I get to put onto the battlefield under my control.
Next turn I attack again, this time revealing a Heroes' reunion, a moan of the unhallowed, and an archive trap. The reunion is a treasure, so it's cast on me and I gain 7 life. The archive trap also gets cast on me, because I'm the one who set it off, and I lose 13 cards from my library. The Horde gets to cast the moan, netting it 2 zombie tokens. Whether or not it gets to flashback depends on the level of difficulty you want.
You could easily limit the number of cards in the deck from one dungeon to the next, making some harder by adding more traps or limiting the number of treasures. I'd suggest always including at least 1 really good treasure, so people have something to dig for.
Another thought would be some kind of Planechase-ish situation where players have to progress through a series of locations to reach the treasure or the last boss. Maybe each "room" has a condition players have to satisfy before the Horde becomes vulnerable to attack, or maybe players progress automatically after the Horde's deck loses a certain number of cards. Or if you've got Planechase, just use planes, whatever works.
Still, I like the idea of a dungeon crawl including some kind of a map, each room having its own rewards for players, and its own unique challenges...
I don't know, it might be too much for what you're trying to do. Just some thoughts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In order to save time:
YES that's a cool ability
NO I don't think that this apparently broken card will dominate the format or ruin the game
YES I've been wrong before
YES if things turn out differently I'll owe you an apology
NO you can't have it in writing
YES that might make getting you that apology difficult
Thanks for the responses! I love a lot of that. If I were to attempt to distill it down, a treasure decks seems like the perfect way to capture the feel of a dungeon crawl, and with treasure you'd obviously have something to spend back in town, so those seem like great pieces of tech to combine. Story drops and random treasure really get the dungeon feel, more than just a monster wave that I had before, so I'll definitely try that out. If they like the first run, then it would seem like introducing important villains would definitely help the immersion as well, so that's another in. As far as permanence in board state or life totals or anything like that, while I adore the idea, I feel like is a bit too clunky. Since there's so many physical things to track in Magic, I feel a rest mechanic isn't quite as easy to implement as in an RPG.
Why not save the Zombie horde for level 2 or 3, and use Rats for level 1?
Although, if you got things like Marrow-Gnawer or Ogre Slumlord out, the party might be in trouble... Better go with Insects (of the non-Nantuko, non-Infect variety).
SO, part one: The players. It is my intention to create four EDH decks that will start off weak and somewhat small, and grow with each Horde deck the party defeats. It will be a four man party with a "Fighter," "Rogue," "Cleric," and "Wizard." As classic dungeon crawls often are. My preliminary thought was to create those Tiny Leader style decks or perhaps Pauper versions. So that cards could be added and swapped five or ten at a time and "Level Up" as we go through the Hordes. So with the constraints of Pauper Tiny Leader decks, I will catalog the versions here, as well as the "Level Up Packs" as they're made.
Our party:
Fighter McSwordmen
So we approach Fighter McSwordmen relatively straightforward. He needs to be an impressive combatant, takes hits like a champ and dishes 'em out just as well. And the McSwordmen's are a clever clan of warriors, so he's got some tricks up his sleeve as well. To me, this screams RWx Voltron general. Perhaps a MonoRed Arena Athlete or Barbarian General that evolves into a Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer or Godo, Bandit Warlord? A MonoWhite Ajani's Pridemate that becomes Jazal Goldmane?Or maybe something else, Aggro players, help me out.
Rouge the Sneak
Here we have a tricky bugger from the wrong side of the law that sometimes dishes out nasty surprises to pull his pals out of a tight spot. UB Faeries or something similar seems apt, perhaps with a small Trap theme for flavor? Eventually it could become Wydwen, the Biting Gale tempo/control or Sygg, River Cutthroat aggro-control.
Clerical Error
A champion of Divine Justice, our Cleric is clearly MonoWhite. I suppose something could be said for another color added in there, maybe a RW war cleric, or a BW cleric whose gotten a bit too cozy with the undead they're fighting. But MonoWhite strikes me as best. A healthy amount of lifegain and damage reduction, some Protection from Blank effects, and the divine might of god fearing men and women and strong armed angels gives us a Timmy-tastic midrange deck led by, perhaps a Devout Chaplain that grows in Divine Might until they're a healing Master.
Wizardy Herbert
NOW part two, the stuff you were probably waiting for when you saw this: The Horde Decks! That's right decks. I'm going to need your help to develop escalating Horde decks that the players can confront at their growing power levels with some continuity between them and a decent narrative to go along with it. I'm thinking up through ten levels to really get a good stretch of time out of the story, and by the end of the "episodes" there should be a fully functioning Horde deck and four passable to good EDH decks that I can gift to my friends for normal play, so that seems like the perfect time to evolve 50 commons into 100 decent cards.
HORDE DECKS:
LEVEL 1
So we start here! A normal deck is designed for 400 vs 100, so this would be, perhaps 200 vs 50, though 60 would maintain the 11:9 token:spell ratio, so that seems better.. That strikes me as sufficiently stacked in the players favor, so that we can give them a good cushion to figure out the rules and their decks, if we make this one easy and just don't give them a level up pack, it's like a tutorial level.
6 Maggot Carrier
1 Bad Moon
2 Cruel Edict
2 Infest
4 Cackling Fiend
2 Infectious Horror
4 Sightless Ghoul
3 Rotting Fensnake
1 Vengeful Dead
2 Gluttonous Zombie
With the constant influx of Zombies, I feel like the weaker threats will still at least pose an issue, and as for special rules:
Infest does not affect the Horde
LEVEL 2
LEVEL 3
LEVEL 4
LEVEL 5
LEVEL 6
LEVEL 7
LEVEL 8
LEVEL 9
LEVEL 10
The narrative:
I'm not great, especially not if I don't have some prompting, so I'm going to be drawing upon all of you! Let's see what you have to say about these four intrepid heroes and their misadventures against the slowly growing zombie hordes. Can they stop the mass of undead? Can they find the source of it all? Can they save the world from utter destruction? Find out next week on "TALES OF THE HORDE!"
Players maintained their life totals through each encounter and kept cards in their graveyards/exile zone throughout the adventure until they were able to rest overnight. Cards would then be shuffled back in & life totals reset at that point. This was intended to be similar to how spell users in D&D have to re-memorize their spells after using them.
Players could change out cards in their decks in between encounters during the adventure on a one-for-one basis by purchasing new cards from the local shop keep. Normally the power level of those spells varied based on how far along they were in the adventure. They would start out with access to a few commons & uncommons and later be able to acquire rares & mythic cards. Additionally, helpful cards, gold, or items key to the story would drop from the hordes they defeated along the way.
Including a "lower level minion" and an "end boss" in the story that the party would have to defeat. Both were represented by commander decks that shared at least one color (the end boss was generally a 2 or 3 color deck and the more powerful of the two). Both would command a horde deck that the players would have to defeat alongside the minion/boss deck. Players would have to defeat the minion before moving on to the final dungeon with the end boss.
Reviewing what you've got:
I like the idea but careful about "leveling up" your commanders. You'll have to make sure the new version is strictly better than the old version. Example: ajani's pridemate is a very good creature, just ask anyone who's ever had it and a soul warden on the field at the same time. I'm not sure I'd consider something so inexpensive and potentially game breaking a strict downgrade from jazal goldmane (depends entirely on the kind of deck you're making, but jazal is a lot more expensive to cast and use). Just make sure the basic version's good enough you won't get complaints, but not too good.
Anyway, my suggestion: if you're going to call it a dungeon crawl, you should have some way to "open doors" and "search for treasure." Maybe you could have a secondary "treasure deck" that players can attack instead of going after the horde? Damage dealt to the "treasure deck" causes the deck to be milled (cards go from library to graveyard). The deck would be mostly dead cards (basic lands, tokens, whatever you've got lying around so long as everyone understands what they're meant to represent) along with some "treasure" cards for players to loot (artifacts, life gaining sorceries, whatever) and some traps (damaging spells the deck aims at the player who set it off and some beneficial spells for the Horde to cast). It'd probably be a good idea to label treasure as treasure and traps as traps, so no one gets confused.
Next turn I attack again, this time revealing a Heroes' reunion, a moan of the unhallowed, and an archive trap. The reunion is a treasure, so it's cast on me and I gain 7 life. The archive trap also gets cast on me, because I'm the one who set it off, and I lose 13 cards from my library. The Horde gets to cast the moan, netting it 2 zombie tokens. Whether or not it gets to flashback depends on the level of difficulty you want.
You could easily limit the number of cards in the deck from one dungeon to the next, making some harder by adding more traps or limiting the number of treasures. I'd suggest always including at least 1 really good treasure, so people have something to dig for.
Another thought would be some kind of Planechase-ish situation where players have to progress through a series of locations to reach the treasure or the last boss. Maybe each "room" has a condition players have to satisfy before the Horde becomes vulnerable to attack, or maybe players progress automatically after the Horde's deck loses a certain number of cards. Or if you've got Planechase, just use planes, whatever works.
Still, I like the idea of a dungeon crawl including some kind of a map, each room having its own rewards for players, and its own unique challenges...
I don't know, it might be too much for what you're trying to do. Just some thoughts.
Although, if you got things like Marrow-Gnawer or Ogre Slumlord out, the party might be in trouble... Better go with Insects (of the non-Nantuko, non-Infect variety).