so many of the local legacy players have been picking up tiny leaders around me and we've been throwing together local tournaments. That said, most of the decks are not budget and are pretty competitive. I don't have OG duals, but otherwise I'm not limited to a budget. Here's my current decklist.
I'm trying to figure out what to cut for a dark confidant. I feel like I have a good mix of creatures and spells, so I feel like I would have to cut a creature for the bob.
My current meta consists of 2 brimaz decks (with lots of tokens), 1 geist deck, a teysa combo deck, a zurgo deck, a doran deck, and a mono black sacrifice deck. There's also a guy building a UWR "delver" deck.
Hey there. If you're looking to add Bob and would like to cut a creature, I think Tidehollow Sculler would be the first dude I'd cut. I feel like you have enough hand disruption to warrant chopping the Sculler, especially with Thoughtseize in the SB. And since you're not on a budget, Wasteland is a shoe-in, and ABUR duals are always a solid investment ;).
I recently removed all of my mana dorks other than Deathrite and BoP, so I'm also inclined to recommend cutting Avacyn's Pilgrim and slotting Loam Lion in its place. A 2/3--most of the time--for W is silly value, and it can provide good pressure early on (not to mention it can emergency-block a SoFaF'd creature). If not the Lion, then maybe Tarmogoyf if you have access to one. To compensate for the loss of a mana accelerant you might consider Green Sun's Zenith and Dryad Arbor. Sure, Arbor isn't amazing in your opening hand, but the versatility of GSZ more than makes up for this shortcoming, especially when you need an immediate answer to a resolved SoFaF, which can really wreck GBx decks.
I think Maelstrom Pulse could easily be Vindicate, and you might get more mileage with Phyrexian Arena in Bow of Nylea's slot. I think Pithing Needle and Black Sun's Zenith deserve SB consideration, as anti-Ezuri tech (as a bonus, the former turns off opposing Wastelands). Finally, I've had tremendous success with Tangle Wire in my main; I'm usually dropping more permanents than most of my opponents, so they're typically crippled quite a bit more by it than I am. Depending on your meta, perhaps you could cut Engineered Explosives for it, or more EE to the SB and cut Pernicious Deed (though I think I prefer Deed to shore up token matchups). If you end up having trouble against Geist decks, more edicts in the SB couldn't hurt (all that targeted removal is virtually useless against Geist); I run Liliana of the Veil and Diabolic Edict in my main, with additional SB support in Chainer's Edict.
I personally run Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage, although it does limit my utility land slots and dilutes my manabase slightly. They're mostly in there for fun, as Knight of the Reliquary is the only real tool I have for assembling the pieces. Also I had Dark Depths burning a hole in my binder and it was just begging to be played in something.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Sure, Arbor isn't amazing in your opening hand, but the versatility of GSZ more than makes up for this shortcoming, especially when you need an immediate answer to a resolved SoFaF, which can really wreck GBx decks.
Dryad Arbor is still green, it can't block a creature holding a SoFaF. Or are you referring to GSZ getting a Reclamation Sage or something?
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Sure, Arbor isn't amazing in your opening hand, but the versatility of GSZ more than makes up for this shortcoming, especially when you need an immediate answer to a resolved SoFaF, which can really wreck GBx decks.
Dryad Arbor is still green, it can't block a creature holding a SoFaF. Or are you referring to GSZ getting a Reclamation Sage or something?
Yes, I meant that GSZ can be used to fetch Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage. I do think the best use for GSZ is turn 1 Dryad Arbor to ramp into a turn 2 Anafenza, but I was pointing out that it does have other important uses.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
PtaQ, did you mean to say that you think he doesn't need Maelstrom Pulse in the main? Because he has it listed right above Council's Judgment in the main. So he is already playing judgment.
Novajoe, you could probably cut one or two lands, since 19 is a bit much. I think 17 or 18 is plenty since you're also running 3 mana dorks. I also agree with PtaQ that Liliana would be nice to have in the main instead of the SB. I like the Engineered Plague you have in the SB especially for the Elves match. A couple more cards to consider for dealing with elves or tokens are Golgari Charm and/or Zealous Persecution. More ways to give -1/-1 without targeting can also help deal with True-Name Nemesis.
I just realized that I have yet to see any TL Abzan list running Ready // Willing in the main or SB. Maybe some people do not see it as being legal, or is 6 mana just too much to be worthwhile? From what I found about its CMC on the official FAQ: http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/2014/12/frequently-asked-questions.html is that the card is legal in TL. So why isn't this card being suggested or used more?
Check out rule 202.3b http://magiccards.info/rule/202-mana-cost-and-color.html#rule-202-3-b
The CMC is not 6 until the spell is on the stack. Just like when you cast an X spell. X is treated as 0 until you've paid some amount of mana for X which changes the spell's CMC on the stack.
OMG this stuff is confusing. So yea what I said in the first place. Even the link to mtgsalvation's gamepedia for Fuse rulings mentions the following: In every zone except the stack, split cards have two sets of characteristics and two converted mana costs. If anything needs information about a split card not on the stack, it will get two values. For example, if a player reveals Dirty (Down/Dirty) due to Duskmantle Seer's ability ("At the beginning of your upkeep, each player reveals the top card of his or her library, loses life equal to that card's converted mana cost, then puts it into his or her hand."), the game will see its converted mana cost as 4 and 3. This translates to that player losing a total of 7 life.
Check out rule 202.3b http://magiccards.info/rule/202-mana-cost-and-color.html#rule-202-3-b
The CMC is not 6 until the spell is on the stack. Just like when you cast an X spell. X is treated as 0 until you've paid some amount of mana for X which changes the spell's CMC on the stack.
OMG this stuff is confusing. So yea what I said in the first place. Even the link to mtgsalvation's gamepedia for Fuse rulings mentions the following: In every zone except the stack, split cards have two sets of characteristics and two converted mana costs. If anything needs information about a split card not on the stack, it will get two values. For example, if a player reveals Dirty (Down/Dirty) due to Duskmantle Seer's ability ("At the beginning of your upkeep, each player reveals the top card of his or her library, loses life equal to that card's converted mana cost, then puts it into his or her hand."), the game will see its converted mana cost as 4 and 3. This translates to that player losing a total of 7 life.
it just seems as if Tiny Leaders has it own rule set. I guess we both are right
1 deathrite shaman
1 avacyn's pilgrim
1 birds of paradise
1 tidehollow sculler
1 knight of the reliquary
1 scavenging ooze
1 eternal witness
1 kitchen finks
1 fleecemane lion
1 reclamation sage
1 loxodon smiter
1 voice of resurgence
1 stoneforge mystic
1 mother of runes
1 qasali pridemage
1 sylvan library
1 bow of nylea
1 sword of feast and famine
1 sword of light and shadow
1 engineered explosives
1 toxic deluge
1 inquisition of kozilek
1 abrupt decay
1 smother
1 path to exile
1 maelstrom pulse
1 council's judgment
1 swords to plowshares
1 hymn to tourach
1 lingering souls
1 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 windswept heath
1 verdant catacombs
1 marsh flats
1 isolated chapel
1 woodland cemetery
1 sunpetal grove
1 command tower
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 vault of the archangel
1 gavony township
1 reflecting pool
1 wooded foothills
1 bloodstained mire
1 swamp
1 plains
1 forest
1 liliana of the veil
1 engineered plague
1 pernicious deed
1 thoughtseize
1 great sable stag
1 mistcutter hydra
1 kor firewalker
1 mirran crusader
1 bojuka bog
1 ghost quarter
I'm trying to figure out what to cut for a dark confidant. I feel like I have a good mix of creatures and spells, so I feel like I would have to cut a creature for the bob.
My current meta consists of 2 brimaz decks (with lots of tokens), 1 geist deck, a teysa combo deck, a zurgo deck, a doran deck, and a mono black sacrifice deck. There's also a guy building a UWR "delver" deck.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
I recently removed all of my mana dorks other than Deathrite and BoP, so I'm also inclined to recommend cutting Avacyn's Pilgrim and slotting Loam Lion in its place. A 2/3--most of the time--for W is silly value, and it can provide good pressure early on (not to mention it can emergency-block a SoFaF'd creature). If not the Lion, then maybe Tarmogoyf if you have access to one. To compensate for the loss of a mana accelerant you might consider Green Sun's Zenith and Dryad Arbor. Sure, Arbor isn't amazing in your opening hand, but the versatility of GSZ more than makes up for this shortcoming, especially when you need an immediate answer to a resolved SoFaF, which can really wreck GBx decks.
I think Maelstrom Pulse could easily be Vindicate, and you might get more mileage with Phyrexian Arena in Bow of Nylea's slot. I think Pithing Needle and Black Sun's Zenith deserve SB consideration, as anti-Ezuri tech (as a bonus, the former turns off opposing Wastelands). Finally, I've had tremendous success with Tangle Wire in my main; I'm usually dropping more permanents than most of my opponents, so they're typically crippled quite a bit more by it than I am. Depending on your meta, perhaps you could cut Engineered Explosives for it, or more EE to the SB and cut Pernicious Deed (though I think I prefer Deed to shore up token matchups). If you end up having trouble against Geist decks, more edicts in the SB couldn't hurt (all that targeted removal is virtually useless against Geist); I run Liliana of the Veil and Diabolic Edict in my main, with additional SB support in Chainer's Edict.
I personally run Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage, although it does limit my utility land slots and dilutes my manabase slightly. They're mostly in there for fun, as Knight of the Reliquary is the only real tool I have for assembling the pieces. Also I had Dark Depths burning a hole in my binder and it was just begging to be played in something.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Dryad Arbor is still green, it can't block a creature holding a SoFaF. Or are you referring to GSZ getting a Reclamation Sage or something?
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
Come Pucatrade with me
Rules Advisor
Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Novajoe, you could probably cut one or two lands, since 19 is a bit much. I think 17 or 18 is plenty since you're also running 3 mana dorks. I also agree with PtaQ that Liliana would be nice to have in the main instead of the SB. I like the Engineered Plague you have in the SB especially for the Elves match. A couple more cards to consider for dealing with elves or tokens are Golgari Charm and/or Zealous Persecution. More ways to give -1/-1 without targeting can also help deal with True-Name Nemesis.
I just realized that I have yet to see any TL Abzan list running Ready // Willing in the main or SB. Maybe some people do not see it as being legal, or is 6 mana just too much to be worthwhile? From what I found about its CMC on the official FAQ: http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/2014/12/frequently-asked-questions.html is that the card is legal in TL. So why isn't this card being suggested or used more?
Check out rule 202.3b
http://magiccards.info/rule/202-mana-cost-and-color.html#rule-202-3-b
The CMC is not 6 until the spell is on the stack. Just like when you cast an X spell. X is treated as 0 until you've paid some amount of mana for X which changes the spell's CMC on the stack.
The official blog for Tiny Leaders even lists it as a legal card.
http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/2014/12/frequently-asked-questions.html
Nevermind, apparently its CMC is 6:http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Fuse
OMG this stuff is confusing. So yea what I said in the first place. Even the link to mtgsalvation's gamepedia for Fuse rulings mentions the following:
In every zone except the stack, split cards have two sets of characteristics and two converted mana costs. If anything needs information about a split card not on the stack, it will get two values. For example, if a player reveals Dirty (Down/Dirty) due to Duskmantle Seer's ability ("At the beginning of your upkeep, each player reveals the top card of his or her library, loses life equal to that card's converted mana cost, then puts it into his or her hand."), the game will see its converted mana cost as 4 and 3. This translates to that player losing a total of 7 life.
it just seems as if Tiny Leaders has it own rule set. I guess we both are right
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list