Goblin Welder + Ichor Wellspring + Mycosynth Wellspring = Card Advantage. Play the Ichor to draw a card. Use Goblin Welder to swap the Ichor in play and Mycosynth in graveyard. Draw a card + search your library for a basic land. Rinse, Repeat each time you can.
Opal Palace + Feldon of the Third Path = Huge McLarge. Every time you cast Feldon from the command zone with Opal Palace, you put X +1/+1 counter on him equal to the number of times cast from the command zone. So by paying 2RR on your first casting of him he can be 3/4, next time a 4/5, etc.
Myr Superion + Feldon of the Third Path = 2R, T: Put a 5/6 colorless Myr artifact creature token named Myr Superion onto the battlefield. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
Bottle Gnomes + Feldon of the Third Path = Best blocker 10/10. A 1/3 gnome who you can make a token of from your graveyard with Feldon, before blockers are declared, to then chump block an opponent's creature and then sacrifice before combat damage is dealt to heal 3 life while taking none from the now blocked creature.
Any thoughts on Alesha, Who Smiles at Death? i would like to know if there's any good combo on that colour scheme for a tiny leader deck with her
Thought of some more Alesha combos:
1) Wall of Blood. Get it into your yard somehow, and Alesha can animate it attacking. If it goes unblocked, you can dump life into it and one-shot your opponent, Hatred-style.
1b) Wall of Blood + Fling - Another use for the Wall, you can fling it to deal your opponent X damage for X life.
2) Fire Covenant + Mogg Maniac/Boros Reckoner - The Reckoner is the more powerful card, but Maniac can be recurred by Alesha. Covenant of Fire is already a strong sweeper, but with either dude in play you can turn it into another X life for X damage to your opponent's face spell.
"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
Anyone else feels like the format revolves a bit too much around Swords of X and Y? Whenever I play Doran vs Geist, and a Sword lands on either side, the game is often decided shortly after. I feel like the vast majority of competitive deck lists would start with 2x Swords (SoFaF and SoFaI usually), then auto-include Stoneforge Mystic if they also run white.
I feel like we're already close to solving the format, with so many other cards being auto-includes in their respective colors: Qasali Pridemage, Spell Snare, Abrupt Decay, Smother, Inquisition of Kozilek, Vindicate, etc. When I look at other junk lists for inspiration, well, I don't find any because the lists all look the same.
What do you guys think?
PS: Are we going to get a Tiny Leaders forum instead of being stuck in the Commander variants subforum? We have our own section of the metagame at MTGGoldfish; I think this format is becoming popular enough to justify it.
Well I honestly thought my list was original enough to inspire some people
I also think TL is brother, or even uncle (not son) of Variant Commander decklists.
I didn't play so many games in this format, but as far as i can see, by the time anyone lands a sword and is able to equip it, ezuri (the deck i played against) already strikes for lethal, and radha (the deck i played) tramples through the protection. i'm not that impressed by any of the swords (or by geist, unless he is able to play draw-go since the beginning of the match).
Quite impressive that we dont have any Sultai Tiny leader.
Not 1 in the entire history of magic.
Considering there are only 5 Sultai generals in the entire history of Magic, and one of those was part of a fixed-mana cost Cycle (the Planechase Dragons), that's not that surprising. We didn't have Jeskai or Mardu Tiny Leaders until this past set.
I feel like we're already close to solving the format, with so many other cards being auto-includes in their respective colors: ...
What do you guys think?
PS: Are we going to get a Tiny Leaders forum instead of being stuck in the Commander variants subforum? We have our own section of the metagame at MTGGoldfish; I think this format is becoming popular enough to justify it.
The mods have discussed this a couple of times and decided that we will wait to see what kind of the longevity the format has. As you've said, it looks like it could be a nearly-"solved" format, which doesn't bode well for its popularity long-term. Variant formats like Pauper EDH and Horde have had brief flare-ups, but fizzled, and we don't want a dozen husks of niche formats taking up the EDH Boards.
We could consider moving Tiny Leaders to the 1v1 Decklist forum, where it will be sharing space with French as an alternative 1v1 Format, but for now it's either that or here.
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Quite impressive that we dont have any Sultai Tiny leader.
Not 1 in the entire history of magic.
Considering there are only 5 Sultai generals in the entire history of Magic, and one of those was part of a fixed-mana cost Cycle (the Planechase Dragons), that's not that surprising. We didn't have Jeskai or Mardu Tiny Leaders until this past set.
Not surprising, sure. But impressive in a sence that we had a ton of sets and we also have a ton of legends in general, and they never even by "accident" made a Sultai tiny leader.
For me, thats fairly impressive.
Just ask some people that dont know the list, you would normally think theres way more tiny leaders for color combinations.
The small amount of actual multi-color themed sets might be a reason.
The very beginning of magic had much more legendary creatures in multicolor and the entire mid of magic kinda avoided multicolor cards for a great deal (core sets didnt have them until Nicol Bolas made an exception).
So yes, i think its impressive and if you just ask someone casually, they might not think theres actual not a single Sultai tiny leader ; you really would assume theres some random legend you dont think of.
Not surprising, sure. But impressive in a sence that we had a ton of sets and we also have a ton of legends in general, and they never even by "accident" made a Sultai tiny leader.
For me, thats fairly impressive.
Just ask some people that dont know the list, you would normally think theres way more tiny leaders for color combinations.
The small amount of actual multi-color themed sets might be a reason.
The very beginning of magic had much more legendary creatures in multicolor and the entire mid of magic kinda avoided multicolor cards for a great deal (core sets didnt have them until Nicol Bolas made an exception).
So yes, i think its impressive and if you just ask someone casually, they might not think theres actual not a single Sultai tiny leader ; you really would assume theres some random legend you dont think of.
The beginning of Magic had a lot of Legends, but almost exclusively in allied pairs and shards. The first enemy-colored guild Legend was in... Tempest I think. The first Wedge Legend didn't hit until Planar Chaos. Wedges having more than a single option (outside of the outlier of Doran, the Siege Tower) didn't happen until the first Commander Deck release in 2011.
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Is this format not going to essentially be Geist of St Traft (giant enchanted hexproof creature in format without boardwipes) vs Maralen of the Mornsong (tutor a card to force Geist to be sacrificed if you can survive a turn)?
Seems like the format is already devolving into Geist and Ezuri camps.
Great format, great ideas, just not sure where it will end up.
There will be a couple tier 1 decks, many tier 2 decks and even more tier 3 decks.
To be tier 1, your deck needs much consistency. Along with "money" cards to help that consistency and your chances of winning.
The reason it seems to be devolving is because there is a power vacuum or a survival of the fittest if you will.
Esper style is totally viable, but people are mostly lazy and you clearly have a bunch of "Tier-1" leaders and fairly unplayable ones.
Elves fairly easily unfold into a deck, theres literally nothing you want to play that costs 4+ mana anyway, you have enough at 3 mana that more or less does the trick allready.
Geist is just what it allways is as a general, its stupid against point removal, so that alone makes every point removal kinda worthless, as you have to win against that leader.
So we end up with a deck full of edict effects as removal, mass removal and fair deal of tokens. Esper can totally do that and you have a bunch of silver-bullets and fair deal of tutors. But the deck is way more expensive than Elves if you want to build it with actual cards, especially as 3 color demands just naturally more fetchlands and duals.
Ofcourse if you truyl want to keep it fresh, it would make sence to "randomize" a leader and then you get to build a deck for it, so you cant just pick the "best" and go with it.
It's been about a week, and I've got a bunch of games under my belt with Alesha. All I can say is, she's pretty damn strong. Stomped over Shu Yun (4-1, lost to my own dark confidant) and Yasova (5-1, got mana screwed in one game). Went 3-1 against Anafenza (lost to a sword of light and shadow, with ways to kill it like vindicate already gone.) Also went 3-0 against Ezuri - wasn't really that tough to be honest. All in all, I say Alesha has to be one of the stronger generals, as long as you have the powerhouse cards - fulminator mage is as obnoxious as it looks, as is chittering rats after the fact. Imperial Recruiter would probably just make the deck outright unfair, but it's not a combo deck, just annoying. Also have cards like attrition, recurring nightmare, goblin bombardment... it's sort of obnoxious.
I've got two more decks built but untested. Thada Adel (Mono blue artifacts) is a combo deck, capable of both milling someone out, and doing infinite mana, using things like basalt monolith, power artifact, staff of dominaton, wake thrasher, and all the various tutors (loltinker) I thought about doing this as R/U to begin with, but vedalken shackles seems too good to pass up in favor of stuff like dack fayden and goblin welder. I think it could be strong. The third one is Xira Arien (jund). It's probably the most casual of my decks, using ramp and hydras and domri rade and the typical value creatures like eternal witness. It's a good color combo because you can run mortars, deed, and toxic deluge, though I guess it's probably weak to whoever is playing tiny leader storm combo.
I currently running a Bant TurboFog deck and I'm not sure what I should have in my Sideboard. Any ideas? I'd appreciate any help that you guys could offer.
I currently running a Bant TurboFog deck and I'm not sure what I should have in my Sideboard. Any ideas? I'd appreciate any help that you guys could offer.
You should have answers for your meta. What does your meta look like?
Are there any just blue and/or colorless removal for hexproof creatures (specifically Geist of Saint Traft)?
Mind you they aren't the best, but the ones I can think of offhand are:
Are there any just blue and/or colorless removal for hexproof creatures (specifically Geist of Saint Traft)?
Mind you they aren't the best, but the ones I can think of offhand are:
I made a deck from Omnath, Locus of Mana. I like the feel a lot, but I'm having trouble getting it to the necessary 50 lands. I was thinking, that since I'm putting a major focus on abusing Omnath's mana ability, with plenty of mana ramp through Cultivate/Rampant Growth and creatures like Llanowar Elves, Elvish Mystic, and Whisperer of the Wilds, that I could take out 5 lands and trim some of the less synergistic cards.
I would love some input, though. This is my first time building a Commander/Tiny Leader deck. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I was also trying to make it a nice budget deck, since I still need to buy a lot of cards.
So I recently realized that Astral Slide was legal in the format, and now I'm itching to build it. Picking colors is tricky, though.
White is a definite lock, as I need it for Astral Slide, which is the cornerstone of the deck. It also gives me Enlightened Tutor and Idyllic Tutor to find the Slide.
Green is the obvious second color. Life from the Loam, Eternal Witness, and Tilling Treefolk are the best three ways to repeatedly be able to cycle cards, and it also gives access to Sterling Grove as another Slide tutor and protection for Slide. Riftsweeper also allows you to turn slides into tucks.
For the third color though, I'm torn
Red gives Gamble for Loam, Lightning Rift for a second cycling trigger effect, a couple of decent cycling cards like Starstorm (seems key for fighting Ezuri/Geist), and a few good flicker targets like Duergar Hedge-Mage and Fire Imp
Blue, on the other hand, gives Intuition to grab Loam AND two cycling lands, and also gives access to Wargate, which can be used to tutor Slide. There's a few decent cycling Counterspells and Bounce spells, and Copy Enchantment can function as a second Slide.
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Goblin Welder + Ichor Wellspring + Mycosynth Wellspring = Card Advantage. Play the Ichor to draw a card. Use Goblin Welder to swap the Ichor in play and Mycosynth in graveyard. Draw a card + search your library for a basic land. Rinse, Repeat each time you can.
Liquimetal Coating/Myr Landshaper + Shattering Pulse/Goblin Tinkerer/Gorilla Shaman = Reusable destruction, land destruction if you choose the Landshaper.
Opal Palace + Feldon of the Third Path = Huge McLarge. Every time you cast Feldon from the command zone with Opal Palace, you put X +1/+1 counter on him equal to the number of times cast from the command zone. So by paying 2RR on your first casting of him he can be 3/4, next time a 4/5, etc.
Myr Superion + Feldon of the Third Path = 2R, T: Put a 5/6 colorless Myr artifact creature token named Myr Superion onto the battlefield. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
Sundial of the Infinite + Feldon of the Third Path = Permanent Tokens.
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded + Feldon of the Third Path = Strong Synergy. Tibalt helps put creatures and artifacts in your yard. Most Feldon decks I see tend to run a high amount of creatures and artifacts and artifact recursion with cards like Buried Ruins, Myr Retriever and Goblin Welder.
Bottle Gnomes + Feldon of the Third Path = Best blocker 10/10. A 1/3 gnome who you can make a token of from your graveyard with Feldon, before blockers are declared, to then chump block an opponent's creature and then sacrifice before combat damage is dealt to heal 3 life while taking none from the now blocked creature.
Thought of some more Alesha combos:
1) Wall of Blood. Get it into your yard somehow, and Alesha can animate it attacking. If it goes unblocked, you can dump life into it and one-shot your opponent, Hatred-style.
1b) Wall of Blood + Fling - Another use for the Wall, you can fling it to deal your opponent X damage for X life.
2) Fire Covenant + Mogg Maniac/Boros Reckoner - The Reckoner is the more powerful card, but Maniac can be recurred by Alesha. Covenant of Fire is already a strong sweeper, but with either dude in play you can turn it into another X life for X damage to your opponent's face spell.
A few other assorted combos:
-The standard Life.dec combo works with quite a bit of redundancy. Task Force and Daru Spiritualist make up the toughness-gainer, there are four different en-Kor creatures (plus Shuko and Lightning Greaves) for repeat targeting, and then Disciple of Griselbrand, Diamond Valley, Animal Boneyard, Miren, the Moaning Well, Starlit Sanctum, and Worthy Cause all can gain the life. This can fit in a Lin-Sivvi rebels shell (with Task Force and Outrider en-Kor as the first two pieces), an Alesha shell (with Disciple as the sac outlet to make all the pieces Alesha-recurrable), or a BWx Clerics list with Spiritualist, Shaman en-Kor, and Disciple/Sanctum all being cleric-related.
-Spike Feeder, Hardened Scales, Unspeakable Symbol is another way to gain infinite life, and also makes all your dudes infinite/infinite in the process. This seems decent for a Anafenza, the Foremost list where your guys will care about +1/+1 counters anyways.
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--Laboratory notes, final entry
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
I feel like we're already close to solving the format, with so many other cards being auto-includes in their respective colors: Qasali Pridemage, Spell Snare, Abrupt Decay, Smother, Inquisition of Kozilek, Vindicate, etc. When I look at other junk lists for inspiration, well, I don't find any because the lists all look the same.
What do you guys think?
PS: Are we going to get a Tiny Leaders forum instead of being stuck in the Commander variants subforum? We have our own section of the metagame at MTGGoldfish; I think this format is becoming popular enough to justify it.
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
I also think TL is brother, or even uncle (not son) of Variant Commander decklists.
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
Not 1 in the entire history of magic.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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Considering there are only 5 Sultai generals in the entire history of Magic, and one of those was part of a fixed-mana cost Cycle (the Planechase Dragons), that's not that surprising. We didn't have Jeskai or Mardu Tiny Leaders until this past set.
The mods have discussed this a couple of times and decided that we will wait to see what kind of the longevity the format has. As you've said, it looks like it could be a nearly-"solved" format, which doesn't bode well for its popularity long-term. Variant formats like Pauper EDH and Horde have had brief flare-ups, but fizzled, and we don't want a dozen husks of niche formats taking up the EDH Boards.
We could consider moving Tiny Leaders to the 1v1 Decklist forum, where it will be sharing space with French as an alternative 1v1 Format, but for now it's either that or here.
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Not surprising, sure. But impressive in a sence that we had a ton of sets and we also have a ton of legends in general, and they never even by "accident" made a Sultai tiny leader.
For me, thats fairly impressive.
Just ask some people that dont know the list, you would normally think theres way more tiny leaders for color combinations.
The small amount of actual multi-color themed sets might be a reason.
The very beginning of magic had much more legendary creatures in multicolor and the entire mid of magic kinda avoided multicolor cards for a great deal (core sets didnt have them until Nicol Bolas made an exception).
So yes, i think its impressive and if you just ask someone casually, they might not think theres actual not a single Sultai tiny leader ; you really would assume theres some random legend you dont think of.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The beginning of Magic had a lot of Legends, but almost exclusively in allied pairs and shards. The first enemy-colored guild Legend was in... Tempest I think. The first Wedge Legend didn't hit until Planar Chaos. Wedges having more than a single option (outside of the outlier of Doran, the Siege Tower) didn't happen until the first Commander Deck release in 2011.
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There are plenty of boardwipes that can kill Geist. Toxic Deluge, Rolling Earthquake, and Martial Coup, to name three.
The top deck at the moment, I believe, is Ezuri, Renegade Leader, where you spam out elves Legacy Combo Elves style, ideally gunning for Umbral Mantle/Staff of Domination + Priest of Titania/Elvish Archdruid to generate infinite mana and overrun infinite times. Sydri, Galvanic Genius Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek rush is up there too.
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Great format, great ideas, just not sure where it will end up.
There will be a couple tier 1 decks, many tier 2 decks and even more tier 3 decks.
To be tier 1, your deck needs much consistency. Along with "money" cards to help that consistency and your chances of winning.
The reason it seems to be devolving is because there is a power vacuum or a survival of the fittest if you will.
....
Hmm my playgroup does not like me playing Xira Arien anymore. Especially with: Turn 1 Birds of Paradise, turn 2 Destructive Flow.
Elves fairly easily unfold into a deck, theres literally nothing you want to play that costs 4+ mana anyway, you have enough at 3 mana that more or less does the trick allready.
Geist is just what it allways is as a general, its stupid against point removal, so that alone makes every point removal kinda worthless, as you have to win against that leader.
So we end up with a deck full of edict effects as removal, mass removal and fair deal of tokens. Esper can totally do that and you have a bunch of silver-bullets and fair deal of tutors. But the deck is way more expensive than Elves if you want to build it with actual cards, especially as 3 color demands just naturally more fetchlands and duals.
Ofcourse if you truyl want to keep it fresh, it would make sence to "randomize" a leader and then you get to build a deck for it, so you cant just pick the "best" and go with it.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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I've got two more decks built but untested. Thada Adel (Mono blue artifacts) is a combo deck, capable of both milling someone out, and doing infinite mana, using things like basalt monolith, power artifact, staff of dominaton, wake thrasher, and all the various tutors (loltinker) I thought about doing this as R/U to begin with, but vedalken shackles seems too good to pass up in favor of stuff like dack fayden and goblin welder. I think it could be strong. The third one is Xira Arien (jund). It's probably the most casual of my decks, using ramp and hydras and domri rade and the typical value creatures like eternal witness. It's a good color combo because you can run mortars, deed, and toxic deluge, though I guess it's probably weak to whoever is playing tiny leader storm combo.
My Haves/Wants Thread
You should have answers for your meta. What does your meta look like?
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
Mind you they aren't the best, but the ones I can think of offhand are:
Any others?
Arena of the Ancients
There's a few other stax type effects, meekstone and the like.
I would love some input, though. This is my first time building a Commander/Tiny Leader deck. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I was also trying to make it a nice budget deck, since I still need to buy a lot of cards.
It can be found here:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tiny-leaders-monstrous-might-omnath/
White is a definite lock, as I need it for Astral Slide, which is the cornerstone of the deck. It also gives me Enlightened Tutor and Idyllic Tutor to find the Slide.
Green is the obvious second color. Life from the Loam, Eternal Witness, and Tilling Treefolk are the best three ways to repeatedly be able to cycle cards, and it also gives access to Sterling Grove as another Slide tutor and protection for Slide. Riftsweeper also allows you to turn slides into tucks.
For the third color though, I'm torn
Red gives Gamble for Loam, Lightning Rift for a second cycling trigger effect, a couple of decent cycling cards like Starstorm (seems key for fighting Ezuri/Geist), and a few good flicker targets like Duergar Hedge-Mage and Fire Imp
Blue, on the other hand, gives Intuition to grab Loam AND two cycling lands, and also gives access to Wargate, which can be used to tutor Slide. There's a few decent cycling Counterspells and Bounce spells, and Copy Enchantment can function as a second Slide.
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