Through the billowing fog off in the distance, you can dimly make out a shadowy figure, illuminated by the moonlight. A sense of dread overcomes your party, and you silently prepare for the imminent battle. Behind you is the soft clink of metal buckles being tightened as the fighter checks his armor, and off to one side the wizard looks over his components and rehearses the contents of his spellbook. Ahead, the figure lumbers forward, and echoing through the fog you can hear moans and groans all around.
Suddenly, bodies emerge through the fog all around the shadowy figure, which you can now see is a cleric - or at least it was a cleric in a former life. Corpses of people all shapes and sizes come towards you, some rushing at full speed, and others slowly shambling. As they surround your group, you frantically keep them at bay in a desperate struggle that you know will not end until one group is unable to keep moving. You manage to fend off the first wave, but more and more appear. To make matters worse, all around you the fallen corpses stir and begin to rise.
1. What is Horde, Anyway?
Horde is a variant of Magic in which a group of players team up against an autonomous deck (from here on out referred to as Survivors and Horde, respectively). It was first introduced here, and had a follow-up article here. Additionally, the Serious Fun column on the mothership did an article about the horde format here. In general, the Horde deck consists of 100 cards, with a 60/40 split of tokens/non-tokens, although many players adjust their decks to suit their individual needs. Zombies are the most commonly used hordes, but many people use other tokens, such as Dragons, Angels, and Slivers. You're limited only by your imagination (and Magic tokens, of course).
The beauty and appeal of the format is that because the Horde is not controlled by a person, everyone is either a winner or a loser. Additionally, it can be played with as few as one person solitaire, or as many as you want (although much like regular Commander, 3-4 people is generally the perfect number).
2. The Rules
Preface:
The most important thing to keep in mind with these rules is that they are not concrete rules. You can (and should) adjust them to your playgroup. The horde should be challenging enough that the Survivors feel that they just barely win, but can win without a fluke of luck. The ways to accomplish this are by firstly the contents of the deck, and secondly, by adjusting the rules (mostly starting life and starting turns for the Survivors).
The Basic Rules
Setup:
1. Each Survivor contributes 20 life, and 25 cards are removed for each player under four. (So with a typical Horde deck and three Survivors, they would start at 60 life and face a Horde deck with 75 cards.)
(Authors note: I do not like this rule as I have found that it makes it easy for all but the weakest of Commander decks. I prefer using a life total of 30 life +10 life per survivor beyond the first, which caps out at 60 life. A 100 card horde deck should not be lessened below 100 cards, as I’ve found that even goldfishing a 100 card horde deck against 2 of my own decks has proven to be easily doable with a starting life total of 40 life.)
Gameplay:
1. The Survivors always go first, and take the first three turns before the Horde gets a turn. The Survivors do not get to draw on their first turn. 2. At the beginning of the Horde's turn, it reveals cards from the top of its library until a non-token card is revealed. First, the revealed card is cast, then the revealed tokens are cast. 3. All creatures have haste, and must attack each turn if able. The Horde has infinite mana, and will pay all costs for cards such as Propaganda or Rhystic Study. 4. If the Horde would lose life, it instead mills that many cards from its library into its graveyard.
Winning the Game (all conditions must be met):
1. The Horde must have no cards in its library. 2. The Horde must have no cards in hand. 3. The Horde must have no creatures in play.
Additional Rules Notes:
1. If a card is put into the Horde's hand for any reason, it is cast during their next main phase. 2. The Horde is supposed to be mindless, so whenever possible, make choices randomly.
Deck-Specific Rules
1. The Horde's turn proceeds in this manner:
a) Upkeep - no special actions (see Rule #4 for flashback exception)
b) First main phase - 1. Reveal cards until a non-token card is revealed. 2. The revealed card is cast, using the stack as normal. 3. All revealed tokens enter the battlefield. This does not use the stack and cannot be responded to. 4. If the Horde has any additional cards in its hand due to an effect or spell, they are cast in a random order. These cards all use the stack, including token creatures. 5. Spells with flashback and creatures with unearth are played from exile as applicable, in a random order.
c) Combat phase - All creatures which are legally able to attack must attack (note that all creatures have haste).
d) Second main phase - Any cards drawn or returned to hand during the first main phase are now cast. 2. If the Horde would gain life, it puts one card per life gained from the bottom of its graveyard on the bottom of its library. 3. If the Horde would ever discard a card, it is done at random. 4. If a card with flashback would be put into the graveyard from anywhere, it is instead exiled with X time counters (where X is the converted mana flashback cost). At the beginning of the Horde's upkeep, 1d6 time counters are removed from the exiled spell. When the last counter is removed, the spell is cast along with the normal spells for the turn. The spell is then exiled as normal. Treat this as a replacement effect that cannot be responded to. 5. If a card with unearth would be put into the graveyard it is instead exiled and then unearthed during the horde's next first main phase after the spells of that phase are cast. Treat this as a special action that cannot be responded to. 6. If a creature with regeneration would die, it may use its regenerate ability once per turn in response to the damage/effect which would destroy it. 7. Choosing who to attack - Whenever there is one or more planeswalker in play, zombie tokens will divert their attacks towards the survivors and attack the planeswalker(s). If there is more than one, they will equally divide among the planeswalkers, with the odd number going for the one with the most loyalty counters.
Optional General Rule
Because this deck is meant to emulate the apprehension and terror of zombies that are hard to kill and relentlessly come at you, I push the undying theme, recursion, and zombies that bring more zombies with each death. As an optional rule, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed can be played as a general. He is cast on the sixth turn, and two turns after each time he dies. If he is tucked, he instead goes to the Command Zone.
Card-Specific Rules
Cover of Darkness – Zombie is always the named creature type, naturally.
Descent into Madness – The order for exiled permanents is: 1. Created Zombie tokens; 2. Regular Zombie tokens; 3. Zombie Giant tokens; 4. Creatures, starting with the lowest power; 5. Random non-creature permanents; 6. Descent into Madness.
Ghoulcaller Gisa - She wants maximum effect, so whenever possible, she sacrifices the creature with the highest power.
Pontiff of Blight – PoB does not grant other creatures the Extort ability. Additionally, only non-token cards are cast, so Extort will not trigger for the tokens, but the Extort ability is use once for each spell cast.
Relentless Dead – RD will always pay B if it dies, and will always "pay X" to get the top zombie card from the graveyard back to play.
Sutured Ghoul – Exile only Zombie tokens (the 2/2 and 5/5 ones), but exile all of them.
Temporal Extortion – If for any reason the survivors would cast this and force the horde to make a choice, the horde always pays the life by milling half their library. Note that this will trigger cards with flashback and unearth.
These are all thoughts on the cards that I'm running, have run, or contemplated running. Cards that I'm currently running are bold for easy identification. I've intentionally left out some zombies that I think don't add enough value or require some special rules.
Aphetto Vulture - Pros: It flies, and it recurs creatures. Cons: You have to either modify the "target creature" to make it random or for added difficulty you can always choose the best target.
Armored Skaab - Weak by itself, but you build your deck right, milling can lead to epic plays later on.
Ashen Ghoul - A zombie that doesn't stay dead. Unfortunately, it makes for more things to keep track of.
Balthor the Defiled - You'd have to figure out how to determine when to active his effect, but it's a powerful effect.
Bladewing the Risen - A flying zombie, but with the horde having infinite mana, his ability can get out of hand.
Blood Scrivener - By virtue of the horde not having a hand size, this zombie will most often draw an extra card.
Bone Dancer - A zombie that raises your dead against you.
Boneknitter - Regenerating your horde increased the difficulty by a lot.
Cackling Fiend - Making your opponents discard is one of the stronger effects for the horde.
Cemetery Reaper - A zombie lord, and an ability if you want to make a rule for it.
Coffin Queen - A tap ability if you choose to make a rule for it.
Ghoultree - A 10/10 zombie makes short work of the survivors.
Glissa, the Traitor - even without her ability, first strike and deathtouch are good.
Gloomdrifter - Pretty good when you have threshold, which will be quite often.
Grave Defiler - One of my favorites, this zombie practically reads "draw four cards". The survivors won't like seeing this zombie get revealed.
Gravebane Zombie - I thought about running this because it will be so hard to kill, but I think in practice the smart play is to kill it each turn, effectively stopping the horde from getting reveals and letting the survivors stabilize into a good position.
Graveborn Muse - I haven't tried it, but one upkeep with Muse could be brutal.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - Probably the most hated lord out there. Undying is a force to be reckoned with.
Necrosavant - Turn your tokens into something bigger.
Nested Ghoul - A token generator, although probably won't survive for long.
Noxious Ghoul - A good turn for the horde can make this zombie wrath the opposing side.
Order of Yawgmoth - Pretty decent discard effect if you can figure out how to rule it.
Phyrexian Delver - You can make it random, or control the effect for increased difficulty.
Phyrexian Reaper - Situational card, but remember that the effect triggers once blockers are declared.
Pontiff of Blight - Personally, I'd rule that extort triggers only once per spell cast, and PoB doesn't grant everything extort.
Rotting Rats - Discard + unearth = bad for the survivors.
Sedris, the Traitor King - Granting everything unearth is bad news for the survivors, but if they can survive the assault, exiling the horde's creatures actually helps the survivors in the long run.
Decree of Pain - I love this sweeper because no matter how you flip your cards, wrathing the horde's board just makes them that much stronger next turn.
Living Death - Chances are, this will hurt the survivors more than help them, but I want to mix the recursion effects and not just make them strictly one-sided (by running all Zombie Apocalypses).
Smallpox - Pox is a brutal card, and I may end up running it as a one-of. Smallpox, on the other hand, is manageable (but awful to see in the first few turns).
Syphon Flesh - Turns the survivors creatures into zombies.
Syphon Flesh - The card advantage this provides is insane.
Temporal Cascade - Refill the horde deck and give them seven more cards to cast next phase.
Temporal Extortion - I love the idea of giving the horde extra turns, and this one is neat because it gives the survivors a painful way to counter it without a counterspell. The only downside is that if the survivors have a lifegain method then it loses its effectiveness.
A horde deck is a lot like a cube: easy to build (just grab a bunch of stuff and throw it together), and difficult to balance for your intended audience. When you’re first starting out, the easiest thing to do is to start with 100 cards. Grab 60 appropriate tokens that hopefully have a mix of small and large creatures, and 40 other cards. Your other cards should be tribal appropriate creatures, anthems, board wipes, and some disruption, such as discard. Playtest it some, and if you find that your group has an easy time, consider trading some of the weaker effects for more powerful ones, and/or adding cards to the horde.
Because of the nature and mechanics of the Horde format, there are certain cards that you should avoid if you want your horde to be as mindless and autonomous as possible. Now, I'm not going to list every single cards, because that would be a lot of work and some cards can be worked around with house rules, but I will talk about the types of cards to avoid, with examples.
Cards to Avoid Putting in a Horde Deck
Activated Abilities – The horde is supposed to attack each turn, be mindless, and have infinite mana. Most activated abilities will have a conflict with one or more of these. As always, it is up to each group to determine how to utilize these effects.
Coin flips – No, I don’t mean literal coin flip cards like Stitch in Time, I mean cards that when they resolve are either duds or completely back-breaking (Gray Merchant of Asphodel comes to mind). These cards are good in small doses as they can make for some swingy games, but when you load up on them, they tend to overpower the deck.
Oops, I won cards – Properly constructed, your horde deck should make the Survivors dread each turn the horde gets, because each turn there is the possibility for a moment of calm or a moment of terror. What they shouldn’t dread is a card that just hands the horde the game. Coat of Arms is one such card, because while it seems like it should be good, flipping over a handful of tokens and CoA doesn’t make for a good match.
X spells - The horde has infinite mana, so running a spell like Exsanguinate or White Sun's Zenith is pretty boring. There are a lot of X spells out there, so some of them could work. The two ideas I've come up with are using a turn counter, where X=turn number, or making X=# of Survivors. Personally, I like the second one because it doesn't require you to track the number of turns that has passed.
Cards to Avoid Playing as a Survivor
Cheaty cards – These are all cards that take advantage of the fact that the majority (or all of the horde) is similar. I’m talking cards like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, which instantly kills most of a Zombie horde (and to a lesser extent Aether Flash), and cards like An-Zerrin Ruins and Tsabo’s Decree unfairly play against the tribal nature of the horde.
Combo cards - The horde can't react to the stack, so bouncing Palinchron ad nauseam for infinite mana, taking infinite turns with Time Warp, or Tooth and Nailing for Mike and Trike defeat the purpose of playing horde.
Pillowfort cards - While sometimes you can get a breather by playing cards like Silent Arbiter or Moat, I find that it's too easy to tip the tides in the Survivors favor, simply because the horde can't block. If you find that your playgroup starts to build decks to play against the horde, these cards should be avoided, and if they come up naturally, figure out a good rule for bypassing them (such as ignoring them or discarding and drawing a new card).
Don’t want to overload on discard, and Gibbering Descent is the weakest of the bunch. Living Death is just better because it doesn’t put my dudes on the field tapped.
I like the idea of having one card/effect per 50 cards, so I’m going to lower the per card count of some stuff in order to make way for different cards.
9/18/13
The original list of 100 cards was increased to 150 cards. I removed 6 Zombie tokens and added the following cards:
As Horde becomes more popular, lots of players are looking to get in on the action, and each person brings their own ideas and variant rules.
7. Variant Rules
These are all rules that other players use, or we've been brainstorming across the various threads. Feel free to steal, adapt, and suggest ideas.
Burn the Bodies: When you're up against 100+ cards, the odds are stacked against you, especially when the dead doesn't want to stay dead. When declaring attackers, you can choose to attack the horde's graveyard. Whenever you deal combat damage, each point of damage exiles one card at random from the horde's graveyard.
Emblems: Use a card (like a Swamp or Infect token) to represent an bonus for the horde. Each time one is revealed, the horde gets a bonus to make it more powerful. Some people treat the emblem as an extra turn, one extra reveal from the horde deck, or an emblem which gives the horde an extra reveal each turn. Depending on how powerful they are for your meta, you can choose to give the horde the emblem if they reveal it from a flip, or even when it gets milled to the graveyard.
Targeting: There's a lot of good zombies that the horde could run but because they target a single player, make for awkward rules (like Liliana's Reaver). Simply make any targeted effect target each survivor.
Tiers: Like the idea of an emblem, but want to make it less random? Use a turn counter instead. This way, players can't form a strategy to stall the emblems from appearing or stalling to buy time in order to set up a defense.
Treasure Hunting: You and your survivors are trying your best to fend off the horde, but sometimes you just need more help. What if someone had carelessly left something about for you to find? A treasure deck is a separate mini-deck that your team can draw cards from. Sometimes you will get something beneficial (such as extra equipment or power-ups), and sometimes there's a nasty surprise waiting for you, like a zombie or effect to pump the zombies.
8. Other People's Hordes
(Aerodus) Illusion Horde - This blue-based list offers a lot of card advantage for the horde.
(bobthefunny) Zombie Horde - This classic zombie decklist features incremental reveals for the Horde and a plot twist to help the Survivors.
(Darklich528) The End is Nigh! - Darklich528 branches out in colors to add effects like bounce and MLD.
(DarthBunny) Eldrazi Horde - Just like the name implies, a Horde deck that threatens to put the big 3 titans into play.
(Dolono) Phyrexian Mecha-Ghidorah - Think Voltron meets Godzilla, this deck runs Living Equipment as tokens, and reattaches itself when the germs die.
(Dolono) Wrath of the Selesnya Conclave - Return to Ravnica block brought a nice variety of tokens, and Dolono capitalized on it by building a Horde deck around them.
(Espuma) The Underworld Portal - Espuma boasts that the deck was designed to be as brutal as possible, and it certainly looks like it could be.
(Galspanic) Zombies - Galspanic's meta boasts some pretty sick decks and an abundance of Stax, so as you can imagine, this horde deck has to be able to play with the big boys.
(KiL0) Zombies! - This list is unique for two reasons. First, KiL0 has modified some of the basic Horde rules (survivors don't get extra turns, the horde doesn't have haste), and second, he's running 70 Unglued zombie tokens (with pics!). KiL0 also has a variant Archenemy deck.
(SamuraiMunky) Kobold Horde - No, that's not a typo, it's a Kobold list. I don't know what's more impressive, that he acquired so many Kobolds of Kher Keep, or that he thought of this in the first place. Either way, it looks like a fun deck.
(SamuraiMunky) Zombie Horde - Highlander - A 200(?) card Highlander list that runs all one-ofs, excluding tokens.
(SAUS9001) Zombie Horde - This 200 card list features some unique rules to help offset the larger deck (which you can read about in their entirety in the thread): burning the bodies, extra flip emblems, and a treasure deck.
(Schweinefett) Horrible Horde - Although it doesn't include Horrible Hordes, it does have some uniqe rules to make it more difficult.
(Schweinefett) Skyrim Horde - A horde deck based off the game Skyrim, featuring lots of dragons, as well as a loot deck.
(SirGrizz) The Triad - Three horde decks in one, each with its own commander.
(Virtual Alex) Zombie Horde with Loot - This horde deck tries to limit the number of flips by decreasing the token count, but makes up for it by making the spells worse. It also features a loot deck.
Horde is a nice break from the usual. The beauty is that you can alter the rules to make it more difficult/easier.
The deck will get more difficult as you add more tokens (at least half of the deck so you get some strong token runs).
I would recommend adding some one-sided board wipes to increase the difficulty like Plague Wind.
Yes, I need to work on board wraths. I plan on going through their boxes and binders tonight at my LGS, so hopefully I can get some more tokens and DKA/AVR undying zombies. I'll look for Twilight's Call and Living Death as well.
Edit: Well Twilight's Call was in IvsG, so I know I have one somewhere, and I'm sure I have a Living Death too, I just have to find them.
Is this deck tested yet? It does seem kind of weak, but that is compared to my own list and meta, so that doesn't say a lot...
Can you specify the token/nontoken creatures? I am assuming the Walking Corpses count as tokens too for the process of revealing, but I don't know about the others. As it stands, you have <50% tokens, which is probably too low.
I made the deck like 15 minutes before I posted it last night. I haven't tested it yet, even a solitaire game against myself. I also have fears that its too weak, and I'm aware that the token/nontoken ratio is low, but I don't have any more tokens. Right now all the cards are exactly what they are, but I'm king to my LGS tonight so hopefully I'll be able to make some changes after I acquire cards and tokens.
===
Edit: Made a pre-LGS swap after I got home from work:
I hit the jackpot at my LGS and got around 40 zombie tokens, plus a couple more cards as well. Basically, I've upped the total number of tokens, removed all the vanilla and ETBT zombies, and added a couple more spells.
Yes! I love horde! So much fun and such a great change of pace.
When I didn't have all the tokens I needed, I just used face-down lands. It sucks since it doesn't look as awesome, but as you slowly add in the actual tokens it's alright. Getting that last token always makes me so happy
Mortuary seems pretty cool. How do you [plan to] handle the ordering of the creatures when multiple die at once? Random or in some sort of order (ie tokens on top for maximum pain)?
I hadn't thought about it. One of my conscious efforts was that since the horde is supposed to be mindless, I avoid as many choices as possible (except a couple of powerful effects). With Mortuary, I'll just shuffle them blindly.
An interesting question came up as I was testing my deck against another one in a 1v1: how do tokens interact with being exiled and undying? If I Mystifying Maze a token, does it come back at EOT, stay exiled forever, or go to the graveyard? Similarly, if Dark Mike gives my tokens undying, do they come back with a counter if they die, get exiled, or just die?
We play as if the tokens from the deck are actual creature cards. They go to the graveyard, and can be reanimated or shuffled back into your library. They return from exile in case of Mystifying Maze and from the graveyard in case of undying.
On the other hand, 'produced' tokens (Army of the Damned are like regular tokens, and don't add to the deck. When they leave the battlefield, they are gone.
it's helpful to use two different sleeves or leave the non-horde deck tokens unsleeved to easily identify them.
I really like the double-edged effect of Mortuary and its ilk. On the one hand, you get a creature that constantly attacks, but on the other hand you can't spam the board with tokens.
55 seems doable. We found that breaking up the cascade of zombies was the easiest way to beat it - and the most boring way of doing it. Either way if it gets stale up the tokens.
I think for starters I'll bump it up to 50. With the non-token focus being on keeping them alive for as long as possible, I don't want to make it unbeatable. I'm still in the goldfish stage though.
That said, my Karador deck singlehandedly took them down.
Edit: Took out 2 Ghoulraiser, 2 Butcher Ghoul, 1 Sightless Ghoul. Added 5 more Zombie tokens.
The best horde games are the ones where you are scrambling to survive. There seems to be a tipping point with the number of tokens based on the other cards in the horde deck and the decks playing against it, but that just takes some experimenting. You may find that you have to adjust the rules with more than 2 players, for example playing 2 horde spells.
The easiest way to beat the horde is to keep their numbers low. You will find certain things that completely handcuff the horde such as a Goblin Sharpshooter with a Basilisk Collar. I've had to ban my Lazav, Dimir Mastermind mill/copy deck because he is several times more powerful than he normally would be.
Also, due to the nature of the horde, even against a strong horde deck you will find games where you just crush it, and other games where you can't get going and get smashed.
Right. Yosei should be bad against a horde because it only taps 5 permanents most of the time. If you find a card like him that can quickly shut down the horde you need to make some rules edits. We found too many of the cards we play were pointless or overpowered and its easier to micro edit the rules than our decks.
Right. Yosei should be bad against a horde because it only taps 5 permanents most of the time. If you find a card like him that can quickly shut down the horde you need to make some rules edits. We found too many of the cards we play were pointless or overpowered and its easier to micro edit the rules than our decks.
Poor Humility and Aether Flash.
Sad black Honden.
But if your horde is all creatures, since they all have haste and attack each turn, they'll be locked every turn (since I could recur him each turn). The only thing I had to deal with were new tokens each turn, but I had an engine set up so that wasn't an issue.
The new tokens won't be locked and the lords still matter.
Oh and I guess I can't emphasis enough how the rule selection is more important than even the card selection. Unless you play against the same few people withe same decks you need to edit rules a lot... And don't worry about finding the perfect anything like most people do with their decks. It goes against how hordes work in the EDH meta game.
Table of Contents
Suddenly, bodies emerge through the fog all around the shadowy figure, which you can now see is a cleric - or at least it was a cleric in a former life. Corpses of people all shapes and sizes come towards you, some rushing at full speed, and others slowly shambling. As they surround your group, you frantically keep them at bay in a desperate struggle that you know will not end until one group is unable to keep moving. You manage to fend off the first wave, but more and more appear. To make matters worse, all around you the fallen corpses stir and begin to rise.
Horde is a variant of Magic in which a group of players team up against an autonomous deck (from here on out referred to as Survivors and Horde, respectively). It was first introduced here, and had a follow-up article here. Additionally, the Serious Fun column on the mothership did an article about the horde format here. In general, the Horde deck consists of 100 cards, with a 60/40 split of tokens/non-tokens, although many players adjust their decks to suit their individual needs. Zombies are the most commonly used hordes, but many people use other tokens, such as Dragons, Angels, and Slivers. You're limited only by your imagination (and Magic tokens, of course).
The beauty and appeal of the format is that because the Horde is not controlled by a person, everyone is either a winner or a loser. Additionally, it can be played with as few as one person solitaire, or as many as you want (although much like regular Commander, 3-4 people is generally the perfect number).
Preface:
The Basic Rules
Setup:
Gameplay:
Winning the Game (all conditions must be met):
Additional Rules Notes:
Deck-Specific Rules
Optional General Rule
Card-Specific Rules
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
His Lieutenants
1 Death Baron
1 Diregraf Captain
His Champions
1 Grave Titan
1 Soulless One
1 Sutured Ghoul
1 Unbreathing Horde
1 Undead Warchief
Their Helpers
1 Blood Scrivener
1 Cackling Fiend
3 Diregraf Colossus
1 Dread Slaver
4 Ghoulraiser
4 Grave Defiler
1 Graveborn Muse
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Grixis Slavedriver
3 Infectious Horror
1 Liliana's Elite
3 Maalfeld Twins
2 Noosegraf Mob
2 Noxious Ghoul
1 Pontiff of Blight
4 Rotting Rats
2 Vengeful Dead
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
50 Butcher Ghoul
25 Sightless Ghoul
30 Zombie Token
15 Zombie Giant Token
Their Support
2 Army of the Damned
1 Call to the Grave
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Decree of Pain
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Grave Betrayal
1 Living Death
1 Plague Wind
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
3 Syphon Mind
1 Tombstone Stairwell
1 Twilight's Call
1 Zombie Apocalype
1 Delirium Skeins
1 Descent Into Madness
1 Gibbering Descent
2 Mind Swords
1 Painful Quandary
1 Past in Flames
1 Pox
2 Skull Rend
2 Smallpox
2 Temporal Extortion
These are all thoughts on the cards that I'm running, have run, or contemplated running. Cards that I'm currently running are bold for easy identification. I've intentionally left out some zombies that I think don't add enough value or require some special rules.
A horde deck is a lot like a cube: easy to build (just grab a bunch of stuff and throw it together), and difficult to balance for your intended audience. When you’re first starting out, the easiest thing to do is to start with 100 cards. Grab 60 appropriate tokens that hopefully have a mix of small and large creatures, and 40 other cards. Your other cards should be tribal appropriate creatures, anthems, board wipes, and some disruption, such as discard. Playtest it some, and if you find that your group has an easy time, consider trading some of the weaker effects for more powerful ones, and/or adding cards to the horde.
Because of the nature and mechanics of the Horde format, there are certain cards that you should avoid if you want your horde to be as mindless and autonomous as possible. Now, I'm not going to list every single cards, because that would be a lot of work and some cards can be worked around with house rules, but I will talk about the types of cards to avoid, with examples.
Cards to Avoid Putting in a Horde Deck
Cards to Avoid Playing as a Survivor
12/22/13
Out: Gibbering Descent, Zombie Apocalypse
In: Endless Ranks of the Dead, Living Death
Don’t want to overload on discard, and Gibbering Descent is the weakest of the bunch. Living Death is just better because it doesn’t put my dudes on the field tapped.
12/1/13
Out: Grave Defiler, Living Death, Zombie Apocalypse
In: Diregraf Captain, Painful Quandary, Rise of the Dark Realms
More of the getting down to three cards per effect.
10/26/13
Out: Grixis Slavedriver, Rotting Rats
In: Gray Merchant of Asphodel x2
I like the idea of having one card/effect per 50 cards, so I’m going to lower the per card count of some stuff in order to make way for different cards.
9/18/13
The original list of 100 cards was increased to 150 cards. I removed 6 Zombie tokens and added the following cards:
Overall, I'm just increasing the existing theme of Zombies that keep coming back, with the subtheme of getting rid of the Survivors hands.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
These are all rules that other players use, or we've been brainstorming across the various threads. Feel free to steal, adapt, and suggest ideas.
Burn the Bodies: When you're up against 100+ cards, the odds are stacked against you, especially when the dead doesn't want to stay dead. When declaring attackers, you can choose to attack the horde's graveyard. Whenever you deal combat damage, each point of damage exiles one card at random from the horde's graveyard.
Emblems: Use a card (like a Swamp or Infect token) to represent an bonus for the horde. Each time one is revealed, the horde gets a bonus to make it more powerful. Some people treat the emblem as an extra turn, one extra reveal from the horde deck, or an emblem which gives the horde an extra reveal each turn. Depending on how powerful they are for your meta, you can choose to give the horde the emblem if they reveal it from a flip, or even when it gets milled to the graveyard.
Targeting: There's a lot of good zombies that the horde could run but because they target a single player, make for awkward rules (like Liliana's Reaver). Simply make any targeted effect target each survivor.
Tiers: Like the idea of an emblem, but want to make it less random? Use a turn counter instead. This way, players can't form a strategy to stall the emblems from appearing or stalling to buy time in order to set up a defense.
Treasure Hunting: You and your survivors are trying your best to fend off the horde, but sometimes you just need more help. What if someone had carelessly left something about for you to find? A treasure deck is a separate mini-deck that your team can draw cards from. Sometimes you will get something beneficial (such as extra equipment or power-ups), and sometimes there's a nasty surprise waiting for you, like a zombie or effect to pump the zombies.
(Aerodus) Illusion Horde - This blue-based list offers a lot of card advantage for the horde.
(bobthefunny) Zombie Horde - This classic zombie decklist features incremental reveals for the Horde and a plot twist to help the Survivors.
(CruxMDQ) The Scourge of Mirrodin (Phyrexian Infect) - An infect based horde.
(Darklich528) The End is Nigh! - Darklich528 branches out in colors to add effects like bounce and MLD.
(DarthBunny) Eldrazi Horde - Just like the name implies, a Horde deck that threatens to put the big 3 titans into play.
(Dolono) Phyrexian Mecha-Ghidorah - Think Voltron meets Godzilla, this deck runs Living Equipment as tokens, and reattaches itself when the germs die.
(Dolono) Wrath of the Selesnya Conclave - Return to Ravnica block brought a nice variety of tokens, and Dolono capitalized on it by building a Horde deck around them.
(Epsilonson) Rise of the Cybermen - Golem horde deck with nasties such as Blightsteel Colossus and Sundering Titan.
(Espuma) The Underworld Portal - Espuma boasts that the deck was designed to be as brutal as possible, and it certainly looks like it could be.
(Galspanic) Zombies - Galspanic's meta boasts some pretty sick decks and an abundance of Stax, so as you can imagine, this horde deck has to be able to play with the big boys.
(KiL0) Zombies! - This list is unique for two reasons. First, KiL0 has modified some of the basic Horde rules (survivors don't get extra turns, the horde doesn't have haste), and second, he's running 70 Unglued zombie tokens (with pics!). KiL0 also has a variant Archenemy deck.
(Koopa) Zombies, Eldrazi, and Slivers - Three decks for the price of one!
(Kyidro 2) The Village Under Seige - This horde deck splits the deck into three stacks during play, with a mini-boss at the end of each stack.
(Miscalcul8edRisk) Green Stampede - A mono-green Horde deck.
(The Moxious One) The Horde, With Competitive Decks - TMO has made this thread into a mini-primer, aimed at a more competitive approach.
(Namu342) How Many Heads? Hydra Horde - A horde deck built from the Theros Hydra Challenge decks.
(pikachugundam) Selesnya Horde - Birds and Beasts, Knights and Centaurs, and many more.
(Psathus) Simic Slam Jam - This list runs commons such as Drakewing Krasis and Shambleshark in the place of tokens.
(SamuraiMunky) Kobold Horde - No, that's not a typo, it's a Kobold list. I don't know what's more impressive, that he acquired so many Kobolds of Kher Keep, or that he thought of this in the first place. Either way, it looks like a fun deck.
(SamuraiMunky) Zombie Horde - Highlander - A 200(?) card Highlander list that runs all one-ofs, excluding tokens.
(SAUS9001) Zombie Horde - This 200 card list features some unique rules to help offset the larger deck (which you can read about in their entirety in the thread): burning the bodies, extra flip emblems, and a treasure deck.
(Schweinefett) Horrible Horde - Although it doesn't include Horrible Hordes, it does have some uniqe rules to make it more difficult.
(Schweinefett) Skyrim Horde - A horde deck based off the game Skyrim, featuring lots of dragons, as well as a loot deck.
(SirGrizz) The Triad - Three horde decks in one, each with its own commander.
(skullcandy1993) Slivers, Slivers, and more Slivers - Sliver horde list, complete with ban list and alternate rules to buff Slivers.
(Small Adult) Kessig Horde - A horde around the Innistrad block.
(SoddenPine) Wait... What's That Sound? (Sliver horde) - A sliver list that tries to remain balanced in a world of overpowered slivers.
(Ted) The war on Earth - Spirits - Going the other direction with the undead, this is a Kamigawa meets Innistrad deck.
(TolarianAlchaemist) The Storm is Coming - Storm Crow horde. 'Nuff said.
(trancekat) Squirrel Style Kung-Fu - Squirrels!!!!!!! Do I need to say more?
(Virtual Alex) Zombie Horde with Loot - This horde deck tries to limit the number of flips by decreasing the token count, but makes up for it by making the spells worse. It also features a loot deck.
(Wulvenheimer) The Eldritch - Eldrazi horde.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
The deck will get more difficult as you add more tokens (at least half of the deck so you get some strong token runs).
I would recommend adding some one-sided board wipes to increase the difficulty like Plague Wind.
Some good non-zombie spells I run include: Twilight's Call and Living Death which are huge when the graveyard is full, Smallpox, Delirium Skeins, Grave Peril, and several Forsaken Wastes to combat life-gain.
You have a nice start, hope you enjoy it.
Edit: Well Twilight's Call was in IvsG, so I know I have one somewhere, and I'm sure I have a Living Death too, I just have to find them.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
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I made the deck like 15 minutes before I posted it last night. I haven't tested it yet, even a solitaire game against myself. I also have fears that its too weak, and I'm aware that the token/nontoken ratio is low, but I don't have any more tokens. Right now all the cards are exactly what they are, but I'm king to my LGS tonight so hopefully I'll be able to make some changes after I acquire cards and tokens.
===
Edit: Made a pre-LGS swap after I got home from work:
- Bog Raiders x3, Warpath Ghoul
+ Grave Titan, Plague Wind, Twilight's Call, Living Death
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
When I didn't have all the tokens I needed, I just used face-down lands. It sucks since it doesn't look as awesome, but as you slowly add in the actual tokens it's alright. Getting that last token always makes me so happy
Mortuary seems pretty cool. How do you [plan to] handle the ordering of the creatures when multiple die at once? Random or in some sort of order (ie tokens on top for maximum pain)?
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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prereleases and drafts (even if you aren't playing, just scooping up cards after) are good ways to get tokens.
let your LGS know you want tokens and they could set them aside when they clean up.
I have fatpacks full of tokens.
Another option you have is to ask your LGS to save the blank card that comes in the FNM promo pack and make your own tokens from it.
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Uril, The Miststalker
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Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
It might make it easier to balance mass reanimation though.
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
it's helpful to use two different sleeves or leave the non-horde deck tokens unsleeved to easily identify them.
My Blog - contains my decklists
Uril, The Miststalker
Frankie Peanuts - needs to move to multiplayer.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Exactly, and as mentioned, all tokens created during the game are treated like tokens. This has worked well for us. Going to have to add Mortuary...
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Tough to beat 8 or 9 tokens followed by Army of the Damned on turn 3, then several more tokens and an Undead Warchief on turn 4 with Army of the Damned being cast again for it's flashback cost.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
That said, my Karador deck singlehandedly took them down.
Edit: Took out 2 Ghoulraiser, 2 Butcher Ghoul, 1 Sightless Ghoul. Added 5 more Zombie tokens.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
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WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
The easiest way to beat the horde is to keep their numbers low. You will find certain things that completely handcuff the horde such as a Goblin Sharpshooter with a Basilisk Collar. I've had to ban my Lazav, Dimir Mastermind mill/copy deck because he is several times more powerful than he normally would be.
Also, due to the nature of the horde, even against a strong horde deck you will find games where you just crush it, and other games where you can't get going and get smashed.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
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Poor Humility and Aether Flash.
Sad black Honden.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
But if your horde is all creatures, since they all have haste and attack each turn, they'll be locked every turn (since I could recur him each turn). The only thing I had to deal with were new tokens each turn, but I had an engine set up so that wasn't an issue.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
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Oh and I guess I can't emphasis enough how the rule selection is more important than even the card selection. Unless you play against the same few people withe same decks you need to edit rules a lot... And don't worry about finding the perfect anything like most people do with their decks. It goes against how hordes work in the EDH meta game.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.