I've been noticing that this part of the commander forum really picked up in the last couple months, and am curious about the increased attention. What's drawn you or your playgroup towards pauper edh?
Have your group or lgs' metas grown stale?
Sick of the arms race of regular edh?
Dissatisfied with the normal general options?
Budget?
Part budget, part not wanting to keep up with Jones, but mostly the deck building challenge.
I'm at a point where I enjoy MTG but don't really want to dump a bunch of money into it. I'm not chasing the Pro Tour or even interested in dominating FNM with whatever Top 8'd at the last big event and just playing EDH casually doesn't require spending a lot of money. The idea of trying to pick up old and new chase rares that I *might* play just seems tedious.
The deck building aspect is what I find the most rewarding. Constructing a deck made up of only commons that holds its own in a format full of bomb rares is really satisfying. It gives my me an opportunity to shed more light on cards that don't normally see a lot of play and lets other players see that you don't need to spend gobs of money on the game to compete.
All kidding aside he is a big factor. Another factor is the challenge of building something that does not need all the big flashy cards and can still hold its own.
Recently I got into a rut where everything was competitive and I lost sight of playing the game as I was frequently losing and the games were not even fun. I don't always have to win, but losing like a chump is simply no fun. In my meta there are a wide range of players from the novice guys to the guys who only play most brutal cards. Pauper gives me a deck to play with the novice guys without making them think you can only play commander with $100 lands and $50 creatures (Vendilion Clique much???), not to mention games that end on turn 5 with some stupid combo are just plain boring, I know standard Timmy/Spike players love to win as fast as possible, but I find it boring.
I usually run with 5 decks on me (I have a box that fits 5 decks), recently my Glissa Pauper deck kicked my Sharuum deck out of the rotation and I am happy with that.
I play Pauper against regular decks because of the deckbuilding challenge that it provides. It also is a deck that I can do well with, but other people have no clue what to do. It also lets me (mostly) foil it out for cheap.
A bunch of diverse factors pulled me into pauper edh.
I was getting really burnt out on the noobs vs spikes direction my flgs' edh event was taking, and started reconsidering whether I liked the format or not. Not really playing any other events, I was pretty close to taking a break from magic, but happened to get in with some cube players that have since formed the core of my current playgroup and revived my magic habit.
I converted my edh collection into a cube, and indulge in pauper as my remaining constructed edh outlet. The two other cube players I meet with have good paying jobs, so we'd sometimes hop over to card kingdom, where they'd drop $75-100 on a foiled out pauper edh deck. I think they like it because you can practically poop out an entire deck in one go looking through an lgs' inventory.
Finally, I also don't find super-spike edh that fun, so pauper, where you're usually guaranteed an even fight, matches length and tempo of games that I enjoy the most.
I decided to give myself a challenge. Instead of a MBC/(budget)goodstuff.dec that I would forsake the crutch of rares and mythics and do something new. It turned out to be fun (for me usually) and gave me old cards to look at in a new light.
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For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
For me it was the fascination to build new decks and testing them for little money. Furthermore I am very keen on the battle David vs. Goliath. I am still developping my sludge strider list and also a Juniper Order Ranger list. I am also very exited about urdjur's mistmeadow witch!
I come from Legacy where I've always been drawn to mono-colored decks, partly to avoid the cost of duals and partly because I like making Wasteland look stupid. My interest in Legacy Death & Taxes led me to Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero in EDH - a decklist I have developed over three years on-line.
I then recently found a new play group IRL at age 30 - we try to meet for drafts whenever a new set is released and play semi-casual Legacy and now also EDH (after I introduced the format to them) in between. It was then that I realized that actually putting together my Lin Sivvi deck in the flesh would cost me thousands of dollars, and that's for a mono-colored deck. I could simply not accept that, so I looked for alternatives and found PDH.
The fun-per-dollar ratio is simple outstanding in PDH! It has quickly become my favorite format.
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While I still actively enjoy 1v1 and multiplayer games of EDH and Duel Commander, I am hitting a wall where I am not comfortable with how much money I would be spending on magic to continue playing the way I want to. In that sense, cost is the major motivator followed by the sheer fun and enjoyment out of beating people (or coming realllly close) with stock of commons. The challenge of deck building, regardless of what rarity your general is, makes PDH (as Urdjur) coined it a very fun mental exercise.
While I currently am building pauper with the intent to hang with the big boys, i really hope my local playgroup sees the value of this style of edh play and embraces it as well. I think it would be even more entertaining to see games where all of the decks are on a semi-even footing and not just games where one deck is ice skating up hill against fully powered decks.
I'm mostly looking into it for variety. I live far apart from my Playgroup, so apart from Cockatrice I really only am able to bang my two EDH decks together, and that's fun only so many times. Here, when I can anticipate around $40 a deck, the potential to maximize my cut-off paper playing is huge. Especially now that I'm leaving the country, I can build 5 EDH decks for almost nothing over time and have a Meta varied in archetypes from which to pick and choose for my 2-3 person Playgroup.
My next favorite point is hand off ability. I'm afraid to hand off a $300 deck for someone to test, but a $30? I'm fine if a card goes missing regardless of the accidental or nefarious reason. We've lost more financially out of our cube from missing singles than one of these decks costs.
I'm an old casual player with a box of mostly pre-Modern-frame stuff and some newer stuff I've added since I got back into playing as an adult. So part of what drew me to PDH was nostalgic value for finding a use for old favorites that I "outgrew in power level" years ago as well as an excuse to dig through the old box. I also don't play magic online so deckbuilding and box-sifting are the alternative to play testing which gets boring solo.
I also hope to, once I get a good set (perhaps 4 or 6) of PDH decks built, use it as a multiplayer format for newer players or players I'm trying to teach and get into magic without having to run a cube draft or overwhelm them with more complex EDH decks.
It's a format with a strange amount of appeal - I found myself building a PDH deck around Cavern Harpy, then I just kept going and going and going. Roaring Primadox, Imperious Perfect, Zameck Guildmage, Marisi's Twinclaws, Drogskul Captain... the more I build, the more I WANT to build. Even though my Goblin Electromancer and Golgari Guildmage decks didn't work (at all!) and my Vizkopa Guildmage deck was a rousing failure, it still gave me a place to work from and more ideas.
It's an interesting challenge, and unlike most formats where having multiple good decks is impossible PDH has some serious advantages. Plus, there are few truly oppressive cards that simply make you want to throw cards across the table - it's a very interactive format to build in.
EDIT: And there's the look on someone's face when their multihundred dollar Sharuum deck gets eaten alive by a deck that cost less than $30.... Oh, the look on his face was priceless...
Though I keep going back to green, as you can see from the above list. I try to get away from it, and it just keeps sucking me back in...
Please do elaborate! I'm building Viz right now and could use some cuts. So any thoughts on what strategies DIDN'T work are very welcome. Also, what made you give up on it? The commander seems as strong as can be in WB, and the color combination itself feels far from hopeless.
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Please do elaborate! I'm building Viz right now and could use some cuts. So any thoughts on what strategies DIDN'T work are very welcome. Also, what made you give up on it? The commander seems as strong as can be in WB, and the color combination itself feels far from hopeless.
Well, in looking at this thread, my main problem was focusing on the Soul Wardens and Extort creatures at the expense of... well, everything else. I had no game enders aside from the lifelink creatures, and so it fell flat on its face in singleplayer, and in multiplayer... dropping two extort creatures kinda put a big target on my head.
So I'd have to say that my next revision will involve some more fat and giving them both the Guildmage's abilities for the mass destruction.
Re: Iamfanboy - Perhaps that's part of why I like PDH too ... the "best" color seems to be green (to me because of the high power level of ramp spells at common). Or at least, it has a little bit better footing to battle blue as the "base" color of good decks.
Well, in looking at this thread, my main problem was focusing on the Soul Wardens and Extort creatures at the expense of... well, everything else. I had no game enders aside from the lifelink creatures, and so it fell flat on its face in singleplayer, and in multiplayer... dropping two extort creatures kinda put a big target on my head.
So I'd have to say that my next revision will involve some more fat and giving them both the Guildmage's abilities for the mass destruction.
Thanks for the info! I don't think the Soul Wardens are any good in multi nor single. I'd run the 2 extort fliers in multi, but as you say you need to be careful politically of how you use Vizkopa's mass kill.
Personally, I consider Vizkopa to be the secondary win con. Pestilence effects are primary as they also remove threats, making retaliation less of an option. It doesn't hurt that cheap, massive and often reusable life gain help power both strategies while simultanously keeping your defenses up.
I'm not very fond of the lifegain creatures, except for Seraph of Dawn and of course Mark of the Vampire (not a creature, but still). I think you might be better off adding fat as you suggest, than running the 1/1 flying lifelinkers or the non-evasive 2-3 power ones, but neither option is really strong IMO. I'm fine with Twisted Abomination, Liliana's Shade and Shade's Form when it comes to big dudes to use both abilities on. I think Vizkopa is much more about avoiding the red zone entirely though, and abusing stuff like Rest for the Weary as a finisher. The rest should just be a pretty standard BW control deck, killing and removing whatever sticks to the board if it ever dares to turn its hand against you.
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I've really gotten into it because it's gotten me to start playing Glissa, the Traitor again. She's my favorite general and my fully powered Glissa deck either stomps all over weaker decks (which isn't interesting to me), or folds to blue (which really isn't interesting to me). Now I get to play a version of her that lets me play with more casual decks.
Other than that, I'm tired of seeing the exact same format staples, both in my deck and in my opponents deck, and knowing how each card reacts when you smash them together. I like the variety and challenge of playing with other, crappier/off the wall cards and seeing how those cards interact with format staples is refreshing.
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I enjoy the learning experience it provides. There isn't a 'good stuff' list that is as well developed as normal EDH, so games seem to be more interesting. Reading what cards do seems to come up a bit, so it slows it down a tad. That can either be good or bad, I prefer to just have fun with it. I'm afraid the same thing will happen here that happens to every other good format, though. It will eventually become 30% good stuff in every deck, with the rest being somewhat a synergistic game plan 'unique' to the general being used. I hope I'm wrong on that point.
Well i did just buy an entire deck online, fully pimped with foils and mint alpha cards for only 20 bucks - that's a good reason to play PDH.
It's also the chance to broaden your general selection. I love finding uncommon cards that synergize as deck leaders. Zameck Guildmage was the first commander I used, and frankly i was surprised at just how broken he was. Green ramp/fixing in pauper is a cinch, and ZG gives you so much advantage so quickly it's not even funny. Right now I'm trying to find a new general who I'm comfortable playing with and who fits my style - but it's a fun hunt, and there are so many possibilities.
I'm afraid the same thing will happen here that happens to every other good format, though. It will eventually become 30% good stuff in every deck, with the rest being somewhat a synergistic game plan 'unique' to the general being used. I hope I'm wrong on that point.
I share your concern. I've caught myself recommending the same Pauper staples based on the color(s) of the deck I'm commenting on. Overall I have found that the Pauper EDH decks tend to be much more synergistic than the non-Pauper EDH "good stuff" decks.
I've been noticing that this part of the commander forum really picked up in the last couple months, and am curious about the increased attention. What's drawn you or your playgroup towards pauper edh?
Have your group or lgs' metas grown stale?
Sick of the arms race of regular edh?
Dissatisfied with the normal general options?
Budget?
-Dolono
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I'm at a point where I enjoy MTG but don't really want to dump a bunch of money into it. I'm not chasing the Pro Tour or even interested in dominating FNM with whatever Top 8'd at the last big event and just playing EDH casually doesn't require spending a lot of money. The idea of trying to pick up old and new chase rares that I *might* play just seems tedious.
The deck building aspect is what I find the most rewarding. Constructing a deck made up of only commons that holds its own in a format full of bomb rares is really satisfying. It gives my me an opportunity to shed more light on cards that don't normally see a lot of play and lets other players see that you don't need to spend gobs of money on the game to compete.
All kidding aside he is a big factor. Another factor is the challenge of building something that does not need all the big flashy cards and can still hold its own.
Recently I got into a rut where everything was competitive and I lost sight of playing the game as I was frequently losing and the games were not even fun. I don't always have to win, but losing like a chump is simply no fun. In my meta there are a wide range of players from the novice guys to the guys who only play most brutal cards. Pauper gives me a deck to play with the novice guys without making them think you can only play commander with $100 lands and $50 creatures (Vendilion Clique much???), not to mention games that end on turn 5 with some stupid combo are just plain boring, I know standard Timmy/Spike players love to win as fast as possible, but I find it boring.
I usually run with 5 decks on me (I have a box that fits 5 decks), recently my Glissa Pauper deck kicked my Sharuum deck out of the rotation and I am happy with that.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
I was getting really burnt out on the noobs vs spikes direction my flgs' edh event was taking, and started reconsidering whether I liked the format or not. Not really playing any other events, I was pretty close to taking a break from magic, but happened to get in with some cube players that have since formed the core of my current playgroup and revived my magic habit.
I converted my edh collection into a cube, and indulge in pauper as my remaining constructed edh outlet. The two other cube players I meet with have good paying jobs, so we'd sometimes hop over to card kingdom, where they'd drop $75-100 on a foiled out pauper edh deck. I think they like it because you can practically poop out an entire deck in one go looking through an lgs' inventory.
Finally, I also don't find super-spike edh that fun, so pauper, where you're usually guaranteed an even fight, matches length and tempo of games that I enjoy the most.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
I then recently found a new play group IRL at age 30 - we try to meet for drafts whenever a new set is released and play semi-casual Legacy and now also EDH (after I introduced the format to them) in between. It was then that I realized that actually putting together my Lin Sivvi deck in the flesh would cost me thousands of dollars, and that's for a mono-colored deck. I could simply not accept that, so I looked for alternatives and found PDH.
The fun-per-dollar ratio is simple outstanding in PDH! It has quickly become my favorite format.
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
I am stealing that name.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
While I still actively enjoy 1v1 and multiplayer games of EDH and Duel Commander, I am hitting a wall where I am not comfortable with how much money I would be spending on magic to continue playing the way I want to. In that sense, cost is the major motivator followed by the sheer fun and enjoyment out of beating people (or coming realllly close) with stock of commons. The challenge of deck building, regardless of what rarity your general is, makes PDH (as Urdjur) coined it a very fun mental exercise.
While I currently am building pauper with the intent to hang with the big boys, i really hope my local playgroup sees the value of this style of edh play and embraces it as well. I think it would be even more entertaining to see games where all of the decks are on a semi-even footing and not just games where one deck is ice skating up hill against fully powered decks.
My next favorite point is hand off ability. I'm afraid to hand off a $300 deck for someone to test, but a $30? I'm fine if a card goes missing regardless of the accidental or nefarious reason. We've lost more financially out of our cube from missing singles than one of these decks costs.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
I also hope to, once I get a good set (perhaps 4 or 6) of PDH decks built, use it as a multiplayer format for newer players or players I'm trying to teach and get into magic without having to run a cube draft or overwhelm them with more complex EDH decks.
It's an interesting challenge, and unlike most formats where having multiple good decks is impossible PDH has some serious advantages. Plus, there are few truly oppressive cards that simply make you want to throw cards across the table - it's a very interactive format to build in.
EDIT: And there's the look on someone's face when their multihundred dollar Sharuum deck gets eaten alive by a deck that cost less than $30.... Oh, the look on his face was priceless...
Though I keep going back to green, as you can see from the above list. I try to get away from it, and it just keeps sucking me back in...
Please do elaborate! I'm building Viz right now and could use some cuts. So any thoughts on what strategies DIDN'T work are very welcome. Also, what made you give up on it? The commander seems as strong as can be in WB, and the color combination itself feels far from hopeless.
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
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Well, in looking at this thread, my main problem was focusing on the Soul Wardens and Extort creatures at the expense of... well, everything else. I had no game enders aside from the lifelink creatures, and so it fell flat on its face in singleplayer, and in multiplayer... dropping two extort creatures kinda put a big target on my head.
So I'd have to say that my next revision will involve some more fat and giving them both the Guildmage's abilities for the mass destruction.
Thanks for the info! I don't think the Soul Wardens are any good in multi nor single. I'd run the 2 extort fliers in multi, but as you say you need to be careful politically of how you use Vizkopa's mass kill.
Personally, I consider Vizkopa to be the secondary win con. Pestilence effects are primary as they also remove threats, making retaliation less of an option. It doesn't hurt that cheap, massive and often reusable life gain help power both strategies while simultanously keeping your defenses up.
I'm not very fond of the lifegain creatures, except for Seraph of Dawn and of course Mark of the Vampire (not a creature, but still). I think you might be better off adding fat as you suggest, than running the 1/1 flying lifelinkers or the non-evasive 2-3 power ones, but neither option is really strong IMO. I'm fine with Twisted Abomination, Liliana's Shade and Shade's Form when it comes to big dudes to use both abilities on. I think Vizkopa is much more about avoiding the red zone entirely though, and abusing stuff like Rest for the Weary as a finisher. The rest should just be a pretty standard BW control deck, killing and removing whatever sticks to the board if it ever dares to turn its hand against you.
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
Other than that, I'm tired of seeing the exact same format staples, both in my deck and in my opponents deck, and knowing how each card reacts when you smash them together. I like the variety and challenge of playing with other, crappier/off the wall cards and seeing how those cards interact with format staples is refreshing.
BPauper Glissa EDHG
WMaw of the Obzedat PDHB
It's also the chance to broaden your general selection. I love finding uncommon cards that synergize as deck leaders. Zameck Guildmage was the first commander I used, and frankly i was surprised at just how broken he was. Green ramp/fixing in pauper is a cinch, and ZG gives you so much advantage so quickly it's not even funny. Right now I'm trying to find a new general who I'm comfortable playing with and who fits my style - but it's a fun hunt, and there are so many possibilities.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
I share your concern. I've caught myself recommending the same Pauper staples based on the color(s) of the deck I'm commenting on. Overall I have found that the Pauper EDH decks tend to be much more synergistic than the non-Pauper EDH "good stuff" decks.