Mistmeadow Witch is a popular Pauper Commander and one of the most (or perhaps the most) powerful option there is. I've spent a lot of time considering various card choices for it so I thought I would share my results in this primer. Many thanks to the posters in this thread who helped me finalize the list!
Why is Mistmeadow Witch so powerful?
PDH decks thrive on the recursion of utility "ETB bears" to create card advantage. Two quite common ways to reuse these bears is through blue bounce and/or black Gravedigger effects (see this canonical thread for a detailed explanation). However, flickering or blinking is inherently more mana efficient since you don't have to actually replay the creature - nor do you have to pay any buyback costs for the "engine" spell since the general is your engine.
Meanwhile, the witch protects itself and the ETB bears from spot removal or even sweepers. She can also be used offensively to delete tokens or as an expensive tapper against a suprise big beatstick. ETB bears aside, she also gives you access to the two colors that retain the most power when reduced to only commons.
There are no real blink commanders in "normal" legendary EDH, so Mistmeadow Witch brings something unique even to a non-Pauper environment. Being able to hold its own against full power EDH decks both 1-on-1 and in multiplayer is another testament to its power.
Deck Design Philosophy
Having examined several hundred cards for this deck, a few rules of thumb have emerged:
1) If you're looking for an effect in a card, the order of priority is usually ETB bear, instant, sorcery, enchantment, artifact, non-ETB creature and finally land, due to what's easiest to reuse and abuse.
2) Only include ETB bears that you'd actually want to pay 4 to blink. If it only draws a card or creates a 1/1 token, chances are you have better things to do with your mana. In such cases, choose a non-creature instead and use your ETB bears to recur it.
3) Only include ETB bears that add significant value to what Mistmeadow Witch can already do. For example, consider Man-o'-War. Blinking this to bounce one of your own creatures so you can replay it is much less efficient than just using the witch on that creature directly. Using it offensively forces your opponent to pay the casting cost again as compared to simply using the witch on it, but to me that just adds too little value compared to more powerful or broader options like Vedalken Dismisser or Aethersnipe.
4) Once you have picked ETB bears that add significant value to MmW's ability, try to add support cards that add even further value to these ETB bears. For example, Aethersnipe enables you to bounce your own non-creatures as well, which is very useful with Reality Acid. In this manner, the deck almost builds itself with Mistmeadow Witch at its epicenter, without relying on her ability too much.
The list below is current as of Gatecrash. I discuss the various subsections and alternate card choices below.
ETB Draw/search/ramp: Mulldrifter and Sea Gate Oracle are the only pure card draw that make the cut IMO. There are many other options that only draw 1, but I don't want to spend 4 mana on that. I would happily pay 4 to draw 2 repeatedly, or at least dig for 2 and draw 1. Totem-guide Hartebeest and Trinket Mage are also excellent - Hartebeest is a removal engine and Trinket Mage develops the mana base and can find some situational removal too. Pilgrim's Eye and Kor Cartographer are also very good. You can put every land drop to about turn 20 to good use and these are as good as Journeyer's Kite with Mistmeadow Witch. ETB Recursion: I run the three available instant/sorcery bears + Auramancer. The instant bears combine particularly well with Ghostly Flicker and another ETB bear for an even more efficient blink engine than MmW. Using Rewind for free while recurring it with MmW is also of great value. Auramancer forms a removal engine with Weight of Conscience and MmW (both are wizards) and recurs the lion share of the deck's removal. Another option is Sanctum Gargoyle which I chose not to run because there are so few artifacts that this deck wants to recur every turn. ETB Locks and Win: Vedalken Dismisser is probably the most powerful lock piece because it immediately shuts down further card drawing and the most powerful threat, while eventually shutting down all targetable threats. Aven Fogbringer is more mana efficient than a Capsize lock when it comes to destroying the mana base, only taking 8 mana to bounce 2 lands per round. Gulf Squid with MmW shuts down counters and instant speed removal. If you can blink it instantaneously (with Ghostly Flicker for instance), you can lock out almost all casting by tapping down in opponent's upkeep. Stonehorn Dignitary is powerful because its effect stacks - the game remembers every blink/flicker even after it is dealt with. It is particularly useful against untargetable threats. Sensor Splicer finally allows you to quickly amass an army and recover quickly after a sweeper. I don't think there are any more real options in this category that expand enough on MmW's use as an expensive tapper to be considered. ETB Blink/Bounce: Wormfang Drake lets you have ETB effects at instant speed rather than at end of turn with Mistmeadow Witch. Particularly useful with Gulf Squid, in multiplayer or for recurring instants on the spot. Aethersnipe, Kor Skyfisher, Dream Stalker and Drake Familiar are primarily useful for bouncing Reality Acid or an "empty" Oblivion Ring/Journey to Nowhere (usually when these target generals, players tend to send them to the command zone leaving the enchantment empty), but can also be used to bounce creatures. Other ETB Options: Lone Missionary and Aven Riftwatcher are good if you need more life gain. I don't like to dedicate slots to life gain alone though.Kor Sanctifiers is another good card, but it has stiff competition from other disenchant effects. Non-ETB: This category should really be kept to a minimum. Vedalken Aethermage and Drift of Phantasms are simply powerful tutors for the deck - the latter has synergy with Remember the Fallen if you have a sorcery recursion bear and mana to spend. Elgaud Shieldmate is the only hexproof effect available in UW PDH. You don't really want shroud effects since they mess with the witch's targeting. Finally, Dawnglare Invoker is a good answer to hexproof, compensates for a lack of sweepers and simply wins the game on its own if you can protect it. I've tried including other cards here like Ulamog's Crusher and Guardian of the Guildpact, but they were unimpressive. As for non-ETB utility dudes, I'd really recommend using good instants instead as the creatures will likely be fragile, slow and difficult to recur.
Artifact acceleration: This deck is very mana hungry, so you could probably run even more acceleration and land if you wanted to. I try to stay clear of artifacts that only produce colorless mana (like Mind Stone), but these could be included too if you could find the room. Removal: On the artifact side, you could also run Aether Spellbomb which doesn't impress in this deck and Relic of Progenitus which I find hurts me as much as the opponent(s). There is a ton of more Arrest-effects to consider, however I have found 4 hostile auras to be an optimum number for Hartebeest and I think I have the best ones already. If you want more, my first picks would be Claustrophobia, Narcolepsy and Curse of Chains. Recursion/Draw: Not too many other options here. Rhystic Study is sometimes compared to Mystic Remora. IMO, Study isn't card draw but taxation (if your opponents know what they're doing) but it could definetely be included if you found room for it. False Demise is another option for recursion or even stealing, but unfortunately it doesn't go well with exiling removal and lack of sweepers.
Draw/Tutor: This deck runs almost all tutoring available except for Dizzy Spell. It has OK targets in Mystic Remora and Dispeller's Capsule, but can't really compare to the other transmute cards so I prefer to run more draw over it. As for draw, there are tons of more options if you want it. I would start by looking at Frantic Search, Ponder, Preordain, Compulsive Research, Darksteel Pendant, Courier's Capsule and Mysteries of the Deep. Recursion: You could also consider Breath of Life and False Defeat here, but I think they are a bit too narrow and have stiff competition from the other recursion/bounce/blink options in the deck. Removal/Protection: Fade Away is a decent sweeper has synergy with Gulf Squid and Mystic Remora. Dawn Charm forms another lock à la Stonehorn Dignitary with an instant recursion bear - an UW version of Constant Mists + Life from the Loam. Ray of Command gives another answer to untargetability (grab something else that kills the attacker by blocking it) and it will almost always be a 2-for-1 or more. With Cloudshift/Ghostly Flicker you can steal a creature permanently! Dismantling Blow is probably the best disenchant effect in the format. There are many other options for sorcery/instant removal, but I don't think any have more recursion potential than these and/or add anything to the enchantment removal engines already in place. Some cards to consider though could be Reprisal, Second Thoughts and Revoke Existence. Counters: This deck sits pretty with 6 synergistic counters, but more can be added if you can find the room. Alternatives to consider include Arcane Denial, Exclude, Condescend, Cancel, Stoic Rebuttal, Hindering Light and Lost in the Mist. Bounce: Capsize is king of the format. Aether Tradewinds has strong synergy with Oblivion Ring tricks and the deck in general (especially instant recursion bears). I think few other options merit consideration, but that would probably be Echoing Truth, Aether Spellbomb, Into the Roil and maybe Temporal Eddy for its lock potential. Blink: These blink effects return the creature to play immediately rather than at EOT like MmW. This allows you to instantly return and play a counter from your graveyard if you have a recursion bear for instance. Beware that this form of "quick blinking" will save your dude from targeted removal, but won't work in response to a sweeper. Turn to Mist is another option that blinks to EOT just like MmW, but precisely for that reason I found it didn't add much value to the deck (though its definetely playable). In general though, these effects are simply even more efficient than MmW and can provide seriously undercosted instant speed ETB effects, potentially while saving your dude from removal as well.
How to Play the Deck Good rules stuff to consider regarding... ...blinking: Pay attention to if the flicker effect blinks any creature or only your creature, when it returns and under whose control to avoid play mistakes. ...evoke: You can respond to the sacrifice with instant speed blink/bounce. Yes, this means that you can pay 3+4 mana with MmW and Mulldrifter/Aethersnipe to get twice the effect and the body remaining in play! Also works great with Angelic Renewal - evoke for 3, get double the effect AND the body. ...ETB and the stack: Just remember "last in, first out". If you respond to, say, an Oblivion Ring with Capsize, the bounce will return the ring before the ETB ability resolves. This in turn triggers the LTB ability, which also resolves before the ETB gets to resolve, so that the initial target is permanently exiled. Before sitting down to play this deck, it's good if you can wrap your head around what happens if a Drake Familiar is hiding under a Wormfang Drake and you blink Wormfang Drake with Mistmeadow Witch in response to the ETB ability of Oblivion Ring so as to bounce it with the Familiar. If you see how this lets you exile a permanent each round for 7 mana, you probably know what you need to know to take this deck for a spin!
Hands to keep: You will typically want at least 1 ETB dude, some useful protection/removal or tutor and lots of land or early card draw/land fetch to guarantee your early land drops. Turn 1-2: Play ETBT lands, cheap draw/land spells and set up "seal" type artifacts/enchantments for later use. If you really need to blink a 3 CMC bear on t4, you may want to play the witch here too, but it's risky. Turn 3-4: You will probably want to play an ETB dude here and continue developing your mana base, possibly responding to threats as needed. Turn 5-6: This is typically when you play the commander and start blinking stuff for card advantage and board protection. By now you can see how the game is developing and start tutoring for what you need most. Turn 7-8: In a 1-vs-1 game, you will aim to trap your opponent in a devastating lock around now while continuing to develop your mana base. In multiplayer, you're better off keeping a low profile while handling threats as needed and setting up subtle but hard to disrupt synergies between your hand, board and graveyard. Turn 9-10+: This is where you should try to drop and protect a win condition in 1-vs-1 and ride it to victory. In multiplayer, you now have a strong possibility to come out ahead after a sweeper and keep that advantage through abundant recursion. Disrupting opposing engines before they get out of hand and planning ahead for the long game without being too aggressive is typically what you want to do here.
If you enjoyed reading this primer, please comment below! Feel free to suggest other options that I might have missed, and I'll add them to the primer and credit you
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Thanks for the great primer! I'm looking forward to trying out this list, although I think it's actually going to be kind of OP for my playgroup right now haha.
@mynameiseli: Thanks! Let me know how it works out for you.
@Korhal:
Did you already play this deck or is it under construction? - It looks very solid to me! Let us know how it performed
Both! I've been testing it out for a couple of weeks and I'm still on the fence about a few card choices, but I thought I had enough to write up a primer. It performs better than any other Pauper deck I've tried both in multiplayer and 1-vs-1.
Did you consider reality acid? This can make your opponents permanents crumble if you can blink it!
Yes, it's in the Alternative Support Cards Options. It's one of those things that I'm not really decided on yet I think you need Kor Skyfisher and Dream Stalker to include Reality Acid. In this manner, you can make a removal engine with Mistmeadow Witch that force-sacrifices 1 permanent per turn for 7 mana, which is very good.
The problem is that if something comes in, something else must come out. IMO, you can't have TOO much blink, bounce and recursion, so most likely it's either Skyfisher/Stalker or instant speed bounce like Echoing Truth and Aether Tradewinds.
Right now, I've opted to go with instant speed bounce to better abuse Oblivion Ring and Journey to Nowhere. However, it is possible to use Skyfisher/Stalker at instant speed to abuse Ring/Journey if you also have Wormfang Drake or instant speed flickering like Ghostly Flicker.
Also, I have felt the need to run a 4th aura to better abuse Totem-guide Hartebeest. Only 3 auras is really running on an absolute minimum. So Reality Acid would fit right in. One card I haven't been completely satisfied with is Turn to Mist - it's the only single shot flicker that works "slowly" like Mistmeadow Witch, and I find I really want those single shots to blink the creature immediately.
Another thing I'm considering is the "be or not to be" of Sanctum Gargoyle. Yes it's cute, but there are few artifacts that I really want to pay 4 to recur. Reusing something like Armillary Sphere would be a staggering 8 mana to get 2 lands... Also, I can't tutor for the Gargoyle so it's a bit hit-or-miss. Mine Excavation and/or Remember the Fallen might be better options.
What do you think about these tweaking suggestions?
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The conspire doesn't work so well for you if you are blinking your creatures to save them from death, or for utility, and then the card would be stuck RFG.
Remember the fallen can get you a guy as well as an artifact if you want and can come back from the graveyard via archaeomancer or mnemonic wall.
I think reality acid is an okay choice but I agree you may want another card or two that bounces permanents. Keep in mind that reality acid can blow up lands and leave you wayy ahead.
Another tutor option for the hartebeest that I am surprised I don't see is Sigil of Sleep
The conspire doesn't work so well for you if you are blinking your creatures to save them from death, or for utility, and then the card would be stuck RFG.
Not really sure what you mean with "card would be stuck RFG"? Actually, conspire works pretty well in this deck precisely because I'm not very interested in attacking with most of the weenies and blinking returns them untapped anyway. Turning dudes sidesways is an underused resource, so if I can use it for card advantage, all the better. If I cut Sanctum Gargoyle, I think I'd like to fit both (Remember the Fallen and Mine Excavation).
I think reality acid is an okay choice but I agree you may want another card or two that bounces permanents. Keep in mind that reality acid can blow up lands and leave you wayy ahead.
That's right - actual land removal (as opposed to mere bounce) is another function I've been looking to add to the deck I'm particularly interested in its potential as a continous removal engine with either Capsize or repeated blinking of Kor Skyfisher or Dream Stalker.
Another tutor option for the hartebeest that I am surprised I don't see is Sigil of Sleep
To put on what? If I ran lots of unblockables and had better ways to protect enchanted dudes, I could see running it. Unfortunately, beneficial auras don't work very well with blinking
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As much as I love the card, Desert needs to be just about anything else. Maybe turn it into Relic of Progenitus for more yard hate.
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As much as I love the card, Desert needs to be just about anything else. Maybe turn it into Relic of Progenitus for more yard hate.
Why? I can afford the colorless source and it adds some utility to the deck. Quicksand is another option but I prefer the repeatability of Desert. Relic doesn't produce mana and is typically as bad for me as it is for my opponents. Crypt is reusable. Having both seems unnecessary given that Trinket Mage can fetch Crypt (and other tutors can find him in turn). Also, almost all my removal exiles, making the need for GY removal less.
Darksteel Forge --> Darksteel Citadel
Oops. Fixed
Trying out the Reality Acid package and so far so good.
EDIT: To sum up the suggested changes so far, it's looking like this:
+ Reality Acid
+ Dream Stalker
+ Kor Skyfisher
+ Remember the Fallen
+ Mine Excavation
- Sanctum Gargoyle
- Aether Tradewinds
- Turn to Mist
- False Defeat
- Breath of Life
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I would be a little concerned about missing aether tradewinds, it's a super good effect. It gives you a lot of options for re-casting or saving your own guy from removal, while making the opponent recast something or putting them behind on lands.
I might replace dawn charm instead of tradewinds, not sure though.
Yes, I'm reluctant to cut Aether Tradewinds too - even if it's just a one-shot effect, it's still as brutal with the enchantment based removal as Skyfisher/Stalker and just has general deck synergy as you say.
I've also found another gem and a rules bit that I had missed: Aethersnipe works just as well for enchantment tricks as Skyfisher/Stalker while also giving me the option to bounce opposing dudes. Now, the beauty with evoke is that I can respond to it with flicker/bounce! So I can evoke Aethersnipe or Mulldrifter and then blink it with Mistmeadow Witch to get twice the effect and the body for 7 mana.
I'm really liking Reality Acid so far - after just a bit of testing it has become my go-to answer card because it's so easy to set up an engine with it and it just keeps on giving. I can't see myself cutting Dawn Charm though - this deck has so few answers to untargetables and Dawn Charm recursion is still relatively easy to assemble (I can't tutor for Stonehorn Dignitary and Dawnglare Invoker essentially has an 8 mana upkeep...). It also saves a dude or counters a kill spell - what's not to like?
The list is tightening, that's for sure. The only other cuts that I think are possible are what I consider "luxury cards" - cards that don't answer a particular problem nor form part of the core deck mechanic, but are just nice to have, namely: Ur-Golem's Eye and Sisay's Ring: The deck is mana hungry. Still, not essential and you can definetely win games without seeing these. You ideally want to draw these in the mid game. Guardian of the Guildpact and Ulamog's Crusher: You can definetely win games with these, but I wonder how essential they are. Various locks, Sensor Splicer and Dawnglare Invoker also "get's there".
I think what is really needed is to decide on how many effects to run that blink/bounce/recur creatures because it all adds up and these effects can be useless unless you have something ETB of value to abuse. I know I want:
That's seven "must run" cards. I can't run all of the cards in the second group, though they are all good and useful:
Echoing Truth: Though I haven't been able to nail a token swarm with this yet, I cling to it for its theoretical versatility. Perhaps my fog effects and Fade Away is enough though. Aether Tradewinds: As discussed above. Maybe run in addition to Skyfisher/Stalker, instead of them, or not at all. Kor Skyfisher + Dream Stalker: Useful for the synergy with the enchantment removal, but doesn't have the versatility of Aethersnipe and Aether Tradewinds. False Defeat + Breath of Life: Very efficient for big dudes, but not so good for recurring Drift of Phantasms or Vedalken Aethermage. Remember the Fallen: Very versatile and tutorable with some nice synergy with Drift of Phantasms and a sorcery recursion bear. I think this vs. Defeat/Breath comes down to running Sanctum Gargoyle or not.
Suggestions for most worthwhile choices and cuts are appreciated I also rediscovered Traumatic Visions today. I just glanced over it before. Basic landcycling means it can actually fix mana and I'd say the cost-to-effect is on par with the rest of the land fetch in this deck. Plus it's an extra hard counter in the late game. A possible replacement for the mana rocks (eye/ring)?
Edit: Oooh, Drake Familiar is another cute candidate for the bounce slot. I've noticed that Skyfisher/Stalker aren't very good unless you have Acid/Oring/Journey but this one at least has a little "offensive" potential too in being able to bounce opposing enchantments. Neat. Merits consideration.
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Excellent presentation. One of the cool things about Pauper EDH decks is that they allow cards that didn't see much play outside of limited to really shine. Aven Fogbringer and Gulf Squid are two cards I wasn't even aware existed. Both seem like strong lock pieces late game.
It seems like you are still on the fence about Sanctum Gargoyle and a few other elements of the deck. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of cards like Ulamog's Crusher. It does little if you're already behind and needs to table before doing anything. If you have a game well in hand already it's simply a "win more" type card. Guardian of the Guildpact at least can serve as a blocker against ground based non-trampling monocolored creatures until you are the beatdown.
Keep at it. It seems like everything is coming together nicely.
Not really sure what you mean with "card would be stuck RFG"?
Whoops, i've been drafting GTC online and I read 'conspire' as 'cipher' more than once... you're correct.
For Sigil of Sleep I was thinking you've got some flyers and guardian of the guildpact, and sigil of sleep is tutorable if you are getting through, but now that seems kind of 'winmore'.
Reality acid will be better in most situations though so sigil is unnecessary.
I agree that Ulamog's Crusher, while good, may be a card to cut. You're more than likely going to tap out and leave yourself vulnerable for a big dude that eats removal like a champ. On the other hand if he hits the board you can protect him with a blink effect..
Sanctum Gargoyle seems like a pretty good option because he flies, making him another reasonable wincon once you have control, but you could say the same about the Drake you mentioned.
I would try some games without Echoing Truth in favor if aether tradewinds. If you do run into tokens you already have some ways to deal with them, including locking them out of the combat phase, tap effects, and just straight up blinking their guys.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of cards like Ulamog's Crusher. It does little if you're already behind and needs to table before doing anything. If you have a game well in hand already it's simply a "win more" type card.
Yup, that's pretty much my experience to.
Guardian of the Guildpact at least can serve as a blocker against ground based non-trampling monocolored creatures until you are the beatdown.
True, but that description makes me want to cut GotG more than anything. I'm including a 4 mana permanent mainly to stop the "threat" of non-trampling monocolored stupid beats (when it's the evasive multicolored voltron-generals I should probably be worrying about, defensively)? In a deck that runs 2-3 CMC removal spells that can turn into exilie/sacrifice engines with minimum effort? What was I thinking?! I think a vague notion of "needing win conditions" (that deal 2 damage/turn?) was my rationale.
For Sigil of Sleep I was thinking you've got some flyers and guardian of the guildpact, and sigil of sleep is tutorable if you are getting through, but now that seems kind of 'winmore'.
That and GotG can't be targeted by Sigil of Sleep, so it's even worse.
On the other hand if he hits the board you can protect him with a blink effect..
Yup, that's true and it was my original idea, but let's face it - if I can protect Ulamog with a blink effect, I can also protect an activated Dawnglare Invoker with a blink effect, or blink Sensor Splicer several times for more meat on the board, for the same mana.
I would try some games without Echoing Truth in favor if aether tradewinds
I think you're right - Tradewinds is the stronger bounce option for this deck. Truth is secondary and competes for less pressing slots. I've also found I prefer Drake Familiar for this deck over Kor Skyfisher and Dream Stalker. The deck doesn't want to bounce creatures - it wants to blink/flicker them - and there are no interesting artifacts to bounce. Halimar Depths is the only worthwhile land to bounce, but that's marginal and something I'd prefer doing with Expedition Map -> Azorious Chancery. So in practice, Drake Familiar is actually less restrictive than the other two since I can target an opposing enchantment when I don't have Reality Acid, Oblivion Ring or Journey to Nowhere. Based on the discussion so far, I'd like to modify my previously suggested cuts as follows:
- Sanctum Gargoyle
- Aether Tradewinds -> Echoing Truth
- Turn to Mist
- False Defeat
- Breath of Life
I've decided I want to keep all of the artifact acceleration - the picks on the list are the bee's knees of the format IMO and I need everything I can get. However, there's also the issue of replacing Ulamog's Crusher and Guardian of the Guildpact with something more synergistic. My first pick here would actually be Traumatic Visions. It's a good card in itself and gives me an early mana fix option with Merchant Scroll (it's blue's Evolution Charm!). For the final slot, I think the best bet is to "uncut" Echoing Truth. Three enchantment competent, instant speed, multi-purpose bounce spell simply do not go amiss in this deck.
I'm still interested in opinions on these pics and other possibilities - in particular if you have experience on Kor Skyfisher/Dream Stalker which seem so good on paper but have been clunky in my limited testing.
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People cast Traumatic Visions? I have never done it, cycled it enough though.
I just can't get over how bad it seems mid or late game when you already have your mana base set up. I feel dirty that I'm even considering it for my own deck.
I just can't get over how bad it seems mid or late game when you already have your mana base set up. I feel dirty that I'm even considering it for my own deck.
Late game, isn't any counter godlike? People hardcast Force in Legacy even.
This is probably the best argument I've heard for running Traumatic Visions though I'm still weary of its casting cost as a counter spell.
I think it will work extremely well with an instant recursion bear. Keep 6 mana open. If a must-counter presents itself, you can counter. If not, search out a basic land, flicker the bear with MmW- rince and repeat. If you have no need for additional land, nor to counter a crucial spell, you can keep an extra ETB bear with some complementary useful effect on the board and flicker that instead. The 5 mana casting cost is pretty easy to work around in this deck, and as Overheat says - isn't any counter godlike, let alone one that fetches land? Besides, feeling dirty isn't a bad thing
EDIT:
I just can't get over how bad it seems mid or late game when you already have your mana base set up.
Is it worse than a land in this case? In fact, after you hit 5 mana, I don't think it will ever be worse than a land. Before that, the fact that it can fix mana and adds versatility to Merchant Scroll is quite significant also. This deck can happily make use of 20 mana each round, maybe more. In this deck it can easily serve as a land draw engine with a recursion bear. It won't be as efficient for land draw as blinking Pilgrim's Eye, and it won't be as efficient a counter engine as Rewind, but the fact that you have the choice is excellent. You can just cycle it for profit and forget about it until you get a recursion bear, and then your options are suddenly vastly expanded for almost no opportunity cost at all.
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Why thank you ZS! Now I've gone and not only updated the OP with the finished decklist, but also added deck stats to make it even purdier AND rewamped the card discussions to make it an even smoother read for future witches! In short, my work here is done. My only gripe is how I'm now seeing that I want to also fit Rhystic Study - not for the draw (there usually isn't any) but for the mana denial already present in bouncing opposing lands in various ways, Gulf Squid, Mystic Remora and Fade Away. A mana denial theme has sort of emerged without really planning for it. Alas, there's always that last card that you want to fit I suppose, but for now I'm at least 99% satisfied with the list. At least until the next expansion is released...
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I am a big fan of this deck. I have sleeved it up and I have played it a few times with my group that I normally play with. I had a few suggestions/questions.
I also sleeved up Zombie Shakespeare's Merieke Ri Berit deck. After playing both a few times, there are very similar plays in both decks. I was wondering about your thoughts on a few cards, and what might you move around to get these in the deck? Strip Mine Æther Spellbomb Revoke Existence Courier's Capsule Divination Sanctum Gargoyle Feldon's Cane
All of these cards in ZS have great synergy in the Mistmeadow Witch deck here. Just wondering if you have play tested with these.
Once again thanks for posting this deck....
Excellent questions Druthu and glad you like the deck Here are my comments on the cards.
Strip Mine: This is a legality issue. I'd love to play one, but Gatherer has it as an uncommon. Same thing as with Maze of Ith. It depends on what definition you use for the common rarity. I go by gatherer, so no dice. For land removal, I instead rely on Reality Acid and bounce.
Aether Spellbomb: The only advantage with this over other bounce spells is that it can be found with Trinket Mage. The effect however is not very good - I want my bounce to be enchantment competent in order to affect ORing/Journey/Reality Acid. Blinking creatures with the general is more mana efficient than bouncing them and replaying them. It's also more difficult to recur than the instants that usually carry bounce/blink effects.
Revoke Existence: This vs. Seal of Cleansing is a meta choice. I feel ORing/Fetters is enough exiling/locking removal for my meta, and I have additional outs to indestructible artifact creatures. OTOH, my friend plays an Olivia Voldaren with a Contamination lock, and it can't really answer a pre-emptive Seal of Cleansing, so I prefer it. Dismantling Blow is the must-run IMO, for being 3 CMC (tutorable) and easy to recur as an instant. There are numerous options for the 2nd disenchant effect. I feel it should be 2 CMC and either instant/sorcery or enchantment, but Dispeller's Capsule is also a possibility if one runs Sanctum Gargoyle. Kor Sanctifiers is another contender.
Courier's Capsule: IMO, this card is only worth it if you run Sanctum Gargoyle, and even if you do, you need to ask yourself if you're not better off with Divination instead (one mana cheaper and still easier to recur). At a 4 mana investment, it's obviously not as good as Foresee, and I also think it's a lot worse than Armillary Sphere since you don't know what you're actually spending mana to draw. If I need land, I know I can sink 4 mana into Sphere or Foresee and most likely net me a couple of land. If I don't want land, I'm not gonna fetch/crack Sphere but spend it on something else, or dig up something better with Foresee. I don't like running sub-optimal draw spells just to make Gargoyle better.
Divination: Yes, you could definetely run this card - it's solid. It's just not as fantastic as the other draw spells. If I wanted another pure draw spell, this would probably be next in line. I'm even more interested in finding room for Rhystic Study though, but I don't consider it a draw spell so much as a taxation effect.
Sanctum Gargoyle: I had this in to begin with, but I've found that it's difficult to support both this and Auramancer as complementary recursion engines - you have to pick and choose. This deck already prioritizes effects in ETB creatures and instant/sorceries, so adding enough useful artifacts AND enchantments to support both will spread you too thin. My solution is to only add artifacts if I cannot find the effect in another card type (example: Tormod's Crypt) and then use flexible recursion like Mine Excavation and Remember the Fallen if I need to reuse them.
Feldon's Cane: I don't know why Zombie Shake runs this TBH. I seriously doubt it's for fear of running out of cards. I suppose it could be used to save your yard in response to a Crypt - kind of like an extremely narrow counterspell - but since it destroys your entire yard development in the process, you're almost as bad off. Also, this deck doesn't really care about the yard that much. I want MmW, 1-2 good ETB creatures and lots of mana on the board. In addition, a good support card in hand and a good support card in the yard (if one of the ETB dudes is a recursion bear) - that's all I need. Seriously, I'm happy juggling about 5 cards to dominate the game - the rest are just extra padding and spares to get going again after some catastrophic event. The "recursion" in this deck is built into the general and goes from board to board, not from yard to hand as is the case with most decks with black. The yard is just a place to put your instants until Archaeomancer and friends show up.
Hope that explains it a bit. To sum up, Revoke Existance and Divination are the only options I think should be strongly considered for the deck, of the ones you mention. RE is more a question of meta and Divination is more a question of play style (how many draw effects you are comfortable with).
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What makes Sanctum Gargoyle stronger in Merieke is access to Executioner's Capsule and Nihil Spellbomb. As urdjur noted trying to include Gargoyle and enough artifacts to make it worthwhile waters down the rest of his deck's strategy which is more focused on enchantments.
Feldon's Cane is there to protect my graveyard mid and late game against things like Tormod's Crypt, Bojuka Bog, etc. that could impede the Ghostly Flicker engine. Having to rebuild after using it is challenging but can be done. By that point in the game you should have a boat load of land out so what's left of your library will be mostly business. Losing a few cards early is okay as the deck has some redundancy built in but late game it can be much more painful.
Mistmeadow Witch is a popular Pauper Commander and one of the most (or perhaps the most) powerful option there is. I've spent a lot of time considering various card choices for it so I thought I would share my results in this primer. Many thanks to the posters in this thread who helped me finalize the list!
Why is Mistmeadow Witch so powerful?
PDH decks thrive on the recursion of utility "ETB bears" to create card advantage. Two quite common ways to reuse these bears is through blue bounce and/or black Gravedigger effects (see this canonical thread for a detailed explanation). However, flickering or blinking is inherently more mana efficient since you don't have to actually replay the creature - nor do you have to pay any buyback costs for the "engine" spell since the general is your engine.
Meanwhile, the witch protects itself and the ETB bears from spot removal or even sweepers. She can also be used offensively to delete tokens or as an expensive tapper against a suprise big beatstick. ETB bears aside, she also gives you access to the two colors that retain the most power when reduced to only commons.
There are no real blink commanders in "normal" legendary EDH, so Mistmeadow Witch brings something unique even to a non-Pauper environment. Being able to hold its own against full power EDH decks both 1-on-1 and in multiplayer is another testament to its power.
Deck Design Philosophy
Having examined several hundred cards for this deck, a few rules of thumb have emerged:
1) If you're looking for an effect in a card, the order of priority is usually ETB bear, instant, sorcery, enchantment, artifact, non-ETB creature and finally land, due to what's easiest to reuse and abuse.
2) Only include ETB bears that you'd actually want to pay 4 to blink. If it only draws a card or creates a 1/1 token, chances are you have better things to do with your mana. In such cases, choose a non-creature instead and use your ETB bears to recur it.
3) Only include ETB bears that add significant value to what Mistmeadow Witch can already do. For example, consider Man-o'-War. Blinking this to bounce one of your own creatures so you can replay it is much less efficient than just using the witch on that creature directly. Using it offensively forces your opponent to pay the casting cost again as compared to simply using the witch on it, but to me that just adds too little value compared to more powerful or broader options like Vedalken Dismisser or Aethersnipe.
4) Once you have picked ETB bears that add significant value to MmW's ability, try to add support cards that add even further value to these ETB bears. For example, Aethersnipe enables you to bounce your own non-creatures as well, which is very useful with Reality Acid. In this manner, the deck almost builds itself with Mistmeadow Witch at its epicenter, without relying on her ability too much.
The list below is current as of Gatecrash. I discuss the various subsections and alternate card choices below.
2 Mistmeadow Witch
CREATURES (25)
//ETB Draw/Search/Ramp (6)
5 Mulldrifter
3 Pilgrim's Eye
3 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Kor Cartographer
5 Totem-guide Hartebeest
3 Trinket Mage
4 Archaeomancer
3 Auramancer
5 Mnemonic Wall
5 Scrivener
4 Aven Fogbringer
4 Gulf Squid
5 Sensor Splicer
4 Stonehorn Dignitary
6 Vedalken Dismisser
6 Aethersnipe
2 Drake Familiar
2 Dream Stalker
2 Kor Skyfisher
3 Wormfang Drake
3 Dawnglare Invoker
3 Drift of Phantasms
4 Elgaud Shieldmate
2 Vedalken Aethermage
ARTIFACTS (7)
//Mana Ramp/Fetch (5)
2 Armillary Sphere
2 Azorius Signet
3 Darksteel Ingot
1 Expedition Map
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
0 Tormod's Crypt
ENCHANTMENTS (10)
//Removal (7)
3 Arrest
4 Faith's Fetters
2 Journey to Nowhere
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Reality Acid
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Weight of Conscience
2 Angelic Renewal
1 Mystic Remora
3 Rhystic Study
SORCERIES (7)
//Draw/Tutor (4)
4 Deep Analysis
4 Foresee
2 Merchant Scroll
5 Rush of Knowledge
3 Fade Away
2 Mine Excavation
3 Remember the Fallen
INSTANTS (17)
//Counters (6)
2 Counterspell
3 Faerie Trickery
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Overrule
4 Rewind
5 Traumatic Visions
3 Aether Tradewinds
3 Capsize
1 Cloudshift
3 Ghostly Flicker
2 Momentary Blink
2 Impulse
2 Dawn Charm
3 Dismantling Blow
4 Ray of Command
LANDS (35)
//Multi (3)
1 Command Tower
1 Rupture Spire
1 Transguild Promenad
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Bant Panorama
1 Esper Panorama
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Halimar Depths
1 Desert
1 Haunted Fengraf
12 Island
8 Plains
Mistmeadow Witch according to Winzzy
Mistmeadow Witch according to hyugafan
Mistmeadow Witch according to CptAwesum
Discussion on Card Selection and Alternatives
ETB Recursion: I run the three available instant/sorcery bears + Auramancer. The instant bears combine particularly well with Ghostly Flicker and another ETB bear for an even more efficient blink engine than MmW. Using Rewind for free while recurring it with MmW is also of great value. Auramancer forms a removal engine with Weight of Conscience and MmW (both are wizards) and recurs the lion share of the deck's removal. Another option is Sanctum Gargoyle which I chose not to run because there are so few artifacts that this deck wants to recur every turn.
ETB Locks and Win: Vedalken Dismisser is probably the most powerful lock piece because it immediately shuts down further card drawing and the most powerful threat, while eventually shutting down all targetable threats. Aven Fogbringer is more mana efficient than a Capsize lock when it comes to destroying the mana base, only taking 8 mana to bounce 2 lands per round. Gulf Squid with MmW shuts down counters and instant speed removal. If you can blink it instantaneously (with Ghostly Flicker for instance), you can lock out almost all casting by tapping down in opponent's upkeep. Stonehorn Dignitary is powerful because its effect stacks - the game remembers every blink/flicker even after it is dealt with. It is particularly useful against untargetable threats. Sensor Splicer finally allows you to quickly amass an army and recover quickly after a sweeper. I don't think there are any more real options in this category that expand enough on MmW's use as an expensive tapper to be considered.
ETB Blink/Bounce: Wormfang Drake lets you have ETB effects at instant speed rather than at end of turn with Mistmeadow Witch. Particularly useful with Gulf Squid, in multiplayer or for recurring instants on the spot. Aethersnipe, Kor Skyfisher, Dream Stalker and Drake Familiar are primarily useful for bouncing Reality Acid or an "empty" Oblivion Ring/Journey to Nowhere (usually when these target generals, players tend to send them to the command zone leaving the enchantment empty), but can also be used to bounce creatures.
Other ETB Options: Lone Missionary and Aven Riftwatcher are good if you need more life gain. I don't like to dedicate slots to life gain alone though.Kor Sanctifiers is another good card, but it has stiff competition from other disenchant effects.
Non-ETB: This category should really be kept to a minimum. Vedalken Aethermage and Drift of Phantasms are simply powerful tutors for the deck - the latter has synergy with Remember the Fallen if you have a sorcery recursion bear and mana to spend. Elgaud Shieldmate is the only hexproof effect available in UW PDH. You don't really want shroud effects since they mess with the witch's targeting. Finally, Dawnglare Invoker is a good answer to hexproof, compensates for a lack of sweepers and simply wins the game on its own if you can protect it. I've tried including other cards here like Ulamog's Crusher and Guardian of the Guildpact, but they were unimpressive. As for non-ETB utility dudes, I'd really recommend using good instants instead as the creatures will likely be fragile, slow and difficult to recur.
Removal: On the artifact side, you could also run Aether Spellbomb which doesn't impress in this deck and Relic of Progenitus which I find hurts me as much as the opponent(s). There is a ton of more Arrest-effects to consider, however I have found 4 hostile auras to be an optimum number for Hartebeest and I think I have the best ones already. If you want more, my first picks would be Claustrophobia, Narcolepsy and Curse of Chains.
Recursion/Draw: Not too many other options here. Rhystic Study is sometimes compared to Mystic Remora. IMO, Study isn't card draw but taxation (if your opponents know what they're doing) but it could definetely be included if you found room for it. False Demise is another option for recursion or even stealing, but unfortunately it doesn't go well with exiling removal and lack of sweepers.
Recursion: You could also consider Breath of Life and False Defeat here, but I think they are a bit too narrow and have stiff competition from the other recursion/bounce/blink options in the deck.
Removal/Protection: Fade Away is a decent sweeper has synergy with Gulf Squid and Mystic Remora. Dawn Charm forms another lock à la Stonehorn Dignitary with an instant recursion bear - an UW version of Constant Mists + Life from the Loam. Ray of Command gives another answer to untargetability (grab something else that kills the attacker by blocking it) and it will almost always be a 2-for-1 or more. With Cloudshift/Ghostly Flicker you can steal a creature permanently! Dismantling Blow is probably the best disenchant effect in the format. There are many other options for sorcery/instant removal, but I don't think any have more recursion potential than these and/or add anything to the enchantment removal engines already in place. Some cards to consider though could be Reprisal, Second Thoughts and Revoke Existence.
Counters: This deck sits pretty with 6 synergistic counters, but more can be added if you can find the room. Alternatives to consider include Arcane Denial, Exclude, Condescend, Cancel, Stoic Rebuttal, Hindering Light and Lost in the Mist.
Bounce: Capsize is king of the format. Aether Tradewinds has strong synergy with Oblivion Ring tricks and the deck in general (especially instant recursion bears). I think few other options merit consideration, but that would probably be Echoing Truth, Aether Spellbomb, Into the Roil and maybe Temporal Eddy for its lock potential.
Blink: These blink effects return the creature to play immediately rather than at EOT like MmW. This allows you to instantly return and play a counter from your graveyard if you have a recursion bear for instance. Beware that this form of "quick blinking" will save your dude from targeted removal, but won't work in response to a sweeper. Turn to Mist is another option that blinks to EOT just like MmW, but precisely for that reason I found it didn't add much value to the deck (though its definetely playable). In general though, these effects are simply even more efficient than MmW and can provide seriously undercosted instant speed ETB effects, potentially while saving your dude from removal as well.
How to Play the Deck
Good rules stuff to consider regarding...
...blinking: Pay attention to if the flicker effect blinks any creature or only your creature, when it returns and under whose control to avoid play mistakes.
...evoke: You can respond to the sacrifice with instant speed blink/bounce. Yes, this means that you can pay 3+4 mana with MmW and Mulldrifter/Aethersnipe to get twice the effect and the body remaining in play! Also works great with Angelic Renewal - evoke for 3, get double the effect AND the body.
...ETB and the stack: Just remember "last in, first out". If you respond to, say, an Oblivion Ring with Capsize, the bounce will return the ring before the ETB ability resolves. This in turn triggers the LTB ability, which also resolves before the ETB gets to resolve, so that the initial target is permanently exiled. Before sitting down to play this deck, it's good if you can wrap your head around what happens if a Drake Familiar is hiding under a Wormfang Drake and you blink Wormfang Drake with Mistmeadow Witch in response to the ETB ability of Oblivion Ring so as to bounce it with the Familiar. If you see how this lets you exile a permanent each round for 7 mana, you probably know what you need to know to take this deck for a spin!
Hands to keep: You will typically want at least 1 ETB dude, some useful protection/removal or tutor and lots of land or early card draw/land fetch to guarantee your early land drops.
Turn 1-2: Play ETBT lands, cheap draw/land spells and set up "seal" type artifacts/enchantments for later use. If you really need to blink a 3 CMC bear on t4, you may want to play the witch here too, but it's risky.
Turn 3-4: You will probably want to play an ETB dude here and continue developing your mana base, possibly responding to threats as needed.
Turn 5-6: This is typically when you play the commander and start blinking stuff for card advantage and board protection. By now you can see how the game is developing and start tutoring for what you need most.
Turn 7-8: In a 1-vs-1 game, you will aim to trap your opponent in a devastating lock around now while continuing to develop your mana base. In multiplayer, you're better off keeping a low profile while handling threats as needed and setting up subtle but hard to disrupt synergies between your hand, board and graveyard.
Turn 9-10+: This is where you should try to drop and protect a win condition in 1-vs-1 and ride it to victory. In multiplayer, you now have a strong possibility to come out ahead after a sweeper and keep that advantage through abundant recursion. Disrupting opposing engines before they get out of hand and planning ahead for the long game without being too aggressive is typically what you want to do here.
If you enjoyed reading this primer, please comment below! Feel free to suggest other options that I might have missed, and I'll add them to the primer and credit you
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Good primer!
Did you consider reality acid? This can make your opponents permanents crumble if you can blink it!
Did you already play this deck or is it under construction? - It looks very solid to me! Let us know how it performed
@Korhal:
Both! I've been testing it out for a couple of weeks and I'm still on the fence about a few card choices, but I thought I had enough to write up a primer. It performs better than any other Pauper deck I've tried both in multiplayer and 1-vs-1.
Yes, it's in the Alternative Support Cards Options. It's one of those things that I'm not really decided on yet I think you need Kor Skyfisher and Dream Stalker to include Reality Acid. In this manner, you can make a removal engine with Mistmeadow Witch that force-sacrifices 1 permanent per turn for 7 mana, which is very good.
The problem is that if something comes in, something else must come out. IMO, you can't have TOO much blink, bounce and recursion, so most likely it's either Skyfisher/Stalker or instant speed bounce like Echoing Truth and Aether Tradewinds.
Right now, I've opted to go with instant speed bounce to better abuse Oblivion Ring and Journey to Nowhere. However, it is possible to use Skyfisher/Stalker at instant speed to abuse Ring/Journey if you also have Wormfang Drake or instant speed flickering like Ghostly Flicker.
Also, I have felt the need to run a 4th aura to better abuse Totem-guide Hartebeest. Only 3 auras is really running on an absolute minimum. So Reality Acid would fit right in. One card I haven't been completely satisfied with is Turn to Mist - it's the only single shot flicker that works "slowly" like Mistmeadow Witch, and I find I really want those single shots to blink the creature immediately.
Another thing I'm considering is the "be or not to be" of Sanctum Gargoyle. Yes it's cute, but there are few artifacts that I really want to pay 4 to recur. Reusing something like Armillary Sphere would be a staggering 8 mana to get 2 lands... Also, I can't tutor for the Gargoyle so it's a bit hit-or-miss. Mine Excavation and/or Remember the Fallen might be better options.
What do you think about these tweaking suggestions?
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The conspire doesn't work so well for you if you are blinking your creatures to save them from death, or for utility, and then the card would be stuck RFG.
Remember the fallen can get you a guy as well as an artifact if you want and can come back from the graveyard via archaeomancer or mnemonic wall.
I think reality acid is an okay choice but I agree you may want another card or two that bounces permanents. Keep in mind that reality acid can blow up lands and leave you wayy ahead.
Another tutor option for the hartebeest that I am surprised I don't see is Sigil of Sleep
Not really sure what you mean with "card would be stuck RFG"? Actually, conspire works pretty well in this deck precisely because I'm not very interested in attacking with most of the weenies and blinking returns them untapped anyway. Turning dudes sidesways is an underused resource, so if I can use it for card advantage, all the better. If I cut Sanctum Gargoyle, I think I'd like to fit both (Remember the Fallen and Mine Excavation).
That's right - actual land removal (as opposed to mere bounce) is another function I've been looking to add to the deck I'm particularly interested in its potential as a continous removal engine with either Capsize or repeated blinking of Kor Skyfisher or Dream Stalker.
To put on what? If I ran lots of unblockables and had better ways to protect enchanted dudes, I could see running it. Unfortunately, beneficial auras don't work very well with blinking
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For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Why? I can afford the colorless source and it adds some utility to the deck. Quicksand is another option but I prefer the repeatability of Desert. Relic doesn't produce mana and is typically as bad for me as it is for my opponents. Crypt is reusable. Having both seems unnecessary given that Trinket Mage can fetch Crypt (and other tutors can find him in turn). Also, almost all my removal exiles, making the need for GY removal less.
Oops. Fixed
Trying out the Reality Acid package and so far so good.
EDIT: To sum up the suggested changes so far, it's looking like this:
+ Reality Acid
+ Dream Stalker
+ Kor Skyfisher
+ Remember the Fallen
+ Mine Excavation
- Sanctum Gargoyle
- Aether Tradewinds
- Turn to Mist
- False Defeat
- Breath of Life
Thoughts?
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I would be a little concerned about missing aether tradewinds, it's a super good effect. It gives you a lot of options for re-casting or saving your own guy from removal, while making the opponent recast something or putting them behind on lands.
I might replace dawn charm instead of tradewinds, not sure though.
I've also found another gem and a rules bit that I had missed: Aethersnipe works just as well for enchantment tricks as Skyfisher/Stalker while also giving me the option to bounce opposing dudes. Now, the beauty with evoke is that I can respond to it with flicker/bounce! So I can evoke Aethersnipe or Mulldrifter and then blink it with Mistmeadow Witch to get twice the effect and the body for 7 mana.
I'm really liking Reality Acid so far - after just a bit of testing it has become my go-to answer card because it's so easy to set up an engine with it and it just keeps on giving. I can't see myself cutting Dawn Charm though - this deck has so few answers to untargetables and Dawn Charm recursion is still relatively easy to assemble (I can't tutor for Stonehorn Dignitary and Dawnglare Invoker essentially has an 8 mana upkeep...). It also saves a dude or counters a kill spell - what's not to like?
The list is tightening, that's for sure. The only other cuts that I think are possible are what I consider "luxury cards" - cards that don't answer a particular problem nor form part of the core deck mechanic, but are just nice to have, namely:
Ur-Golem's Eye and Sisay's Ring: The deck is mana hungry. Still, not essential and you can definetely win games without seeing these. You ideally want to draw these in the mid game.
Guardian of the Guildpact and Ulamog's Crusher: You can definetely win games with these, but I wonder how essential they are. Various locks, Sensor Splicer and Dawnglare Invoker also "get's there".
I think what is really needed is to decide on how many effects to run that blink/bounce/recur creatures because it all adds up and these effects can be useless unless you have something ETB of value to abuse. I know I want:
That's seven "must run" cards. I can't run all of the cards in the second group, though they are all good and useful:
Echoing Truth: Though I haven't been able to nail a token swarm with this yet, I cling to it for its theoretical versatility. Perhaps my fog effects and Fade Away is enough though.
Aether Tradewinds: As discussed above. Maybe run in addition to Skyfisher/Stalker, instead of them, or not at all.
Kor Skyfisher + Dream Stalker: Useful for the synergy with the enchantment removal, but doesn't have the versatility of Aethersnipe and Aether Tradewinds.
False Defeat + Breath of Life: Very efficient for big dudes, but not so good for recurring Drift of Phantasms or Vedalken Aethermage.
Remember the Fallen: Very versatile and tutorable with some nice synergy with Drift of Phantasms and a sorcery recursion bear. I think this vs. Defeat/Breath comes down to running Sanctum Gargoyle or not.
Suggestions for most worthwhile choices and cuts are appreciated I also rediscovered Traumatic Visions today. I just glanced over it before. Basic landcycling means it can actually fix mana and I'd say the cost-to-effect is on par with the rest of the land fetch in this deck. Plus it's an extra hard counter in the late game. A possible replacement for the mana rocks (eye/ring)?
Edit: Oooh, Drake Familiar is another cute candidate for the bounce slot. I've noticed that Skyfisher/Stalker aren't very good unless you have Acid/Oring/Journey but this one at least has a little "offensive" potential too in being able to bounce opposing enchantments. Neat. Merits consideration.
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It seems like you are still on the fence about Sanctum Gargoyle and a few other elements of the deck. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of cards like Ulamog's Crusher. It does little if you're already behind and needs to table before doing anything. If you have a game well in hand already it's simply a "win more" type card. Guardian of the Guildpact at least can serve as a blocker against ground based non-trampling monocolored creatures until you are the beatdown.
Keep at it. It seems like everything is coming together nicely.
Whoops, i've been drafting GTC online and I read 'conspire' as 'cipher' more than once... you're correct.
For Sigil of Sleep I was thinking you've got some flyers and guardian of the guildpact, and sigil of sleep is tutorable if you are getting through, but now that seems kind of 'winmore'.
Reality acid will be better in most situations though so sigil is unnecessary.
I agree that Ulamog's Crusher, while good, may be a card to cut. You're more than likely going to tap out and leave yourself vulnerable for a big dude that eats removal like a champ. On the other hand if he hits the board you can protect him with a blink effect..
Sanctum Gargoyle seems like a pretty good option because he flies, making him another reasonable wincon once you have control, but you could say the same about the Drake you mentioned.
I would try some games without Echoing Truth in favor if aether tradewinds. If you do run into tokens you already have some ways to deal with them, including locking them out of the combat phase, tap effects, and just straight up blinking their guys.
Yup, that's pretty much my experience to.
True, but that description makes me want to cut GotG more than anything. I'm including a 4 mana permanent mainly to stop the "threat" of non-trampling monocolored stupid beats (when it's the evasive multicolored voltron-generals I should probably be worrying about, defensively)? In a deck that runs 2-3 CMC removal spells that can turn into exilie/sacrifice engines with minimum effort? What was I thinking?! I think a vague notion of "needing win conditions" (that deal 2 damage/turn?) was my rationale.
That and GotG can't be targeted by Sigil of Sleep, so it's even worse.
Yup, that's true and it was my original idea, but let's face it - if I can protect Ulamog with a blink effect, I can also protect an activated Dawnglare Invoker with a blink effect, or blink Sensor Splicer several times for more meat on the board, for the same mana.
I think you're right - Tradewinds is the stronger bounce option for this deck. Truth is secondary and competes for less pressing slots. I've also found I prefer Drake Familiar for this deck over Kor Skyfisher and Dream Stalker. The deck doesn't want to bounce creatures - it wants to blink/flicker them - and there are no interesting artifacts to bounce. Halimar Depths is the only worthwhile land to bounce, but that's marginal and something I'd prefer doing with Expedition Map -> Azorious Chancery. So in practice, Drake Familiar is actually less restrictive than the other two since I can target an opposing enchantment when I don't have Reality Acid, Oblivion Ring or Journey to Nowhere. Based on the discussion so far, I'd like to modify my previously suggested cuts as follows:
+ Reality Acid
+
Dream Stalker-> Aethersnipe+
Kor Skyfisher-> Drake Familiar+ Remember the Fallen
+ Mine Excavation
- Sanctum Gargoyle
-
Aether Tradewinds-> Echoing Truth- Turn to Mist
- False Defeat
- Breath of Life
I've decided I want to keep all of the artifact acceleration - the picks on the list are the bee's knees of the format IMO and I need everything I can get. However, there's also the issue of replacing Ulamog's Crusher and Guardian of the Guildpact with something more synergistic. My first pick here would actually be Traumatic Visions. It's a good card in itself and gives me an early mana fix option with Merchant Scroll (it's blue's Evolution Charm!). For the final slot, I think the best bet is to "uncut" Echoing Truth. Three enchantment competent, instant speed, multi-purpose bounce spell simply do not go amiss in this deck.
I'm still interested in opinions on these pics and other possibilities - in particular if you have experience on Kor Skyfisher/Dream Stalker which seem so good on paper but have been clunky in my limited testing.
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EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
This is probably the best argument I've heard for running Traumatic Visions though I'm still weary of its casting cost as a counter spell.
Looks like a great update. I'll post more later. Gotta get started on V-Day dinner.
People cast Traumatic Visions? I have never done it, cycled it enough though.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
I just can't get over how bad it seems mid or late game when you already have your mana base set up. I feel dirty that I'm even considering it for my own deck.
Late game, isn't any counter godlike? People hardcast Force in Legacy even.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
I think it will work extremely well with an instant recursion bear. Keep 6 mana open. If a must-counter presents itself, you can counter. If not, search out a basic land, flicker the bear with MmW- rince and repeat. If you have no need for additional land, nor to counter a crucial spell, you can keep an extra ETB bear with some complementary useful effect on the board and flicker that instead. The 5 mana casting cost is pretty easy to work around in this deck, and as Overheat says - isn't any counter godlike, let alone one that fetches land? Besides, feeling dirty isn't a bad thing
EDIT:
Is it worse than a land in this case? In fact, after you hit 5 mana, I don't think it will ever be worse than a land. Before that, the fact that it can fix mana and adds versatility to Merchant Scroll is quite significant also. This deck can happily make use of 20 mana each round, maybe more. In this deck it can easily serve as a land draw engine with a recursion bear. It won't be as efficient for land draw as blinking Pilgrim's Eye, and it won't be as efficient a counter engine as Rewind, but the fact that you have the choice is excellent. You can just cycle it for profit and forget about it until you get a recursion bear, and then your options are suddenly vastly expanded for almost no opportunity cost at all.
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"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
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I also sleeved up Zombie Shakespeare's Merieke Ri Berit deck. After playing both a few times, there are very similar plays in both decks. I was wondering about your thoughts on a few cards, and what might you move around to get these in the deck?
Strip Mine
Æther Spellbomb
Revoke Existence
Courier's Capsule
Divination
Sanctum Gargoyle
Feldon's Cane
All of these cards in ZS have great synergy in the Mistmeadow Witch deck here. Just wondering if you have play tested with these.
Once again thanks for posting this deck....
Strip Mine: This is a legality issue. I'd love to play one, but Gatherer has it as an uncommon. Same thing as with Maze of Ith. It depends on what definition you use for the common rarity. I go by gatherer, so no dice. For land removal, I instead rely on Reality Acid and bounce.
Aether Spellbomb: The only advantage with this over other bounce spells is that it can be found with Trinket Mage. The effect however is not very good - I want my bounce to be enchantment competent in order to affect ORing/Journey/Reality Acid. Blinking creatures with the general is more mana efficient than bouncing them and replaying them. It's also more difficult to recur than the instants that usually carry bounce/blink effects.
Revoke Existence: This vs. Seal of Cleansing is a meta choice. I feel ORing/Fetters is enough exiling/locking removal for my meta, and I have additional outs to indestructible artifact creatures. OTOH, my friend plays an Olivia Voldaren with a Contamination lock, and it can't really answer a pre-emptive Seal of Cleansing, so I prefer it. Dismantling Blow is the must-run IMO, for being 3 CMC (tutorable) and easy to recur as an instant. There are numerous options for the 2nd disenchant effect. I feel it should be 2 CMC and either instant/sorcery or enchantment, but Dispeller's Capsule is also a possibility if one runs Sanctum Gargoyle. Kor Sanctifiers is another contender.
Courier's Capsule: IMO, this card is only worth it if you run Sanctum Gargoyle, and even if you do, you need to ask yourself if you're not better off with Divination instead (one mana cheaper and still easier to recur). At a 4 mana investment, it's obviously not as good as Foresee, and I also think it's a lot worse than Armillary Sphere since you don't know what you're actually spending mana to draw. If I need land, I know I can sink 4 mana into Sphere or Foresee and most likely net me a couple of land. If I don't want land, I'm not gonna fetch/crack Sphere but spend it on something else, or dig up something better with Foresee. I don't like running sub-optimal draw spells just to make Gargoyle better.
Divination: Yes, you could definetely run this card - it's solid. It's just not as fantastic as the other draw spells. If I wanted another pure draw spell, this would probably be next in line. I'm even more interested in finding room for Rhystic Study though, but I don't consider it a draw spell so much as a taxation effect.
Sanctum Gargoyle: I had this in to begin with, but I've found that it's difficult to support both this and Auramancer as complementary recursion engines - you have to pick and choose. This deck already prioritizes effects in ETB creatures and instant/sorceries, so adding enough useful artifacts AND enchantments to support both will spread you too thin. My solution is to only add artifacts if I cannot find the effect in another card type (example: Tormod's Crypt) and then use flexible recursion like Mine Excavation and Remember the Fallen if I need to reuse them.
Feldon's Cane: I don't know why Zombie Shake runs this TBH. I seriously doubt it's for fear of running out of cards. I suppose it could be used to save your yard in response to a Crypt - kind of like an extremely narrow counterspell - but since it destroys your entire yard development in the process, you're almost as bad off. Also, this deck doesn't really care about the yard that much. I want MmW, 1-2 good ETB creatures and lots of mana on the board. In addition, a good support card in hand and a good support card in the yard (if one of the ETB dudes is a recursion bear) - that's all I need. Seriously, I'm happy juggling about 5 cards to dominate the game - the rest are just extra padding and spares to get going again after some catastrophic event. The "recursion" in this deck is built into the general and goes from board to board, not from yard to hand as is the case with most decks with black. The yard is just a place to put your instants until Archaeomancer and friends show up.
Hope that explains it a bit. To sum up, Revoke Existance and Divination are the only options I think should be strongly considered for the deck, of the ones you mention. RE is more a question of meta and Divination is more a question of play style (how many draw effects you are comfortable with).
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Feldon's Cane is there to protect my graveyard mid and late game against things like Tormod's Crypt, Bojuka Bog, etc. that could impede the Ghostly Flicker engine. Having to rebuild after using it is challenging but can be done. By that point in the game you should have a boat load of land out so what's left of your library will be mostly business. Losing a few cards early is okay as the deck has some redundancy built in but late game it can be much more painful.