MTG Salvation

Hi all, and welcome to my Lathliss deck! I decided to build this deck because I think dragons are awesome, but I also needed a budget deck as I can't afford all the fun toys for Jund. Also, Karrthus is kinda passe. The playstyle is fairly direct - throw dragons at the table as fast as possible and then punt the enemy in the face for as much damage as you can. You don't tend to win with Commander damage very often. There's a little bit of disruption in there and a few X-spells if for whatever reason the dragons can't get through to someone.

Currently on the possible cuts pile are Coat of Arms and Shared Animosity, more so the Coat of Arms. It has a tendency to buff other peoples boards and/or scare other players because my guys are suddenly huge. The likely replacement is Sarkhan the Masterless once I get my hands on one, so I can swing with less fear of someone coming into me while everything's tapped.

Questions, comments and so forth gratefully received! Amusing fact: according to the database, this is the first Lathliss deck on here, so I'm either blazing new trails or nobody else can be bothered to play a deck this simple!

Dragonlover

I've never given much in the way of detailed feedback so by all means wait for a few opinions (hopefully others will post too), but looking at your list what stands out to me right away is how high your average cmc is. Including your commander you have 30 dragons which are 5cmc or greater, practically a third of the deck. This means you're very likely to have a starting hand with 3 of these dragons, maybe more, which is really going to hamper your ability to do anything for the first 5 turns, assuming you even get all your land drops as 35 isn't that many, I know you have some cost reduction/ramp cards, but I don't think you have enough.

I feel I'm a lot like you, I love tribal decks and sometimes when you decide to go all in on the tribe, you end up sticking cards in because they're relevant to the tribe, but objectively aren't really that good. You need to look at all your dragons, around 40 in total, and really try and cut that down to 20-25, then you go up to say 38 lands, and put in some more mana rocks and card draw, which will more reliably let you actually get to casting them. With your commander giving you another dragon for each one you get on the field, you really don't need so many.

So firstly, I'll tell you all the cards I'd personally remove and why, obviously at the end of the day it's your deck, but just an idea of where to start...

First getting the dragons to the 20-25 region..

Dragons to cut

Bogardan Hellkite- 8 mana is a lot and I'd be wanting something much more impactful, in commander the 5/5 body isn't remarkable and the 5 damage although decent to remove a problem creature, doesn't justify the cost, especially when your curve is already so high.

Scourge of kher ridges- Again at 8 mana its expensive, it does nothing coming down bar act as a body, requiring you to pump quite a bit of mana into it for any high amount of damage, you'd be better served leaving that sort of effect to designated board wipes.

Skyline Despot- My issue with this card is that at 7 its still quite high, its only a 5/5, and you have to remain the monarch until your next turn to benefit, your commander instantly gives you a 5/5 if its out anyway, and so I don't feel the payoff is enough personally.

Spawn of Thraxas- 7 mana 5/5 syndrome, again the damage to me isn't enough for the cost here.

Siege Dragon- The damaging ability is more relevant here, but I'd still cut it, though this is a bit meta dependent, if you often deal with low p/t go wide strategies, it might be a keeper.

Tyrant of Valakut- It wasn't good in standard, it isn't any better idea, much of the time you will be paying the full cmc not the surge cost, and either way it's just not that great.

Kilnmouth dragon- I'm trying to make more cuts at the top end, between this and Furyborn Hellkite I've kept the latter, I think it's more reliably going to get the bloodthirst trigger than you having 2-3 other dragons in hand to boost this with.

Imperial Hellkite- you're probably not going to want to morph it just to tutor a dragon in most cases I feel.

Ancient hellkite- I'd rather be putting the mana into something else than a quite restrictive ability like this one.

Akoum hellkite- Not doing enough for me ability wise.

Stormwing Dragon- very expensive megamorph with quite little pay off, overcosted either way

Demanding dragon- I like this in standard but for EDH 5 damage isn't as significant, and they may well have fodder to sacrifice,I feel a few more need to be cut its on the block.

Dragon whelp- just not enough for me, if your commander isn't in play to see this come out it's really poor value

Sarkhan's whelp- just a 2/2 flier for 3, absolutely reliant on your commander being out.

Dragon hatchling- Way too mana intensive to make it worth it and so vulnerable at 1 toughness.

Other cuts

Dragonlord's servant- Flavor is good but its very vulnerable to removal and only helps with dragons, you'd be better off simply running the likes of Mind stone

Dragonspeaker Shaman- This isn't as bad and you may well choose to keep it, I'd probably still prefer something like Worn powerstone though myself

Sarkhan Dragonsoul- Too expensive and the plus isn't enough, no one is letting you ult that thing. If you want a different Sarkhan I'd prefer Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker or Sarkhan the Masterless

coat of arms- This is more for very large swarms of tokens for me, as you say I think you risk buffing any other tribal decks more than you end up doing so yourself.

Brass Herald- the buff is negligible for your dragons and his ability isn't worth 6 mana otherwise.

Dragonstorm- I don't think you're very likely to cast this for any real storm effect, in which case it's an expensive dragon, card draw/ramp or just one of the cut but decent dragons is probably a better option.

Fireball- Too mana intensive for any great effect

Indomitable creativity- bit weary of this card, albeit you will generally remove something more dangerous than they get, it cannot be guaranteed, I'd prefer other artifact or creature removal in its place

possibility storm- not sure that's benefiting you that much, just means you cast a different dragon to the one you tried to much of the time, or better or possibly worse, it does interfere with opponents plans, but for me not the right card for this deck.

Temple of the false gods feels bad when its an early land, honestly think a regular mountain or something else will do.

Crucible of the Spirit Dragon being mono colour the whole gathering storage counters has less benefit here, I think I'd rather just have a red source really.

In place of these I'd up the lands to at least 37 and be looking at a few more pieces of artifact ramp to help guarantee your commander and dragons are castable ASAP, say stuff like..

Mind stone
worn powerstone
Hedron archive
Solemn Simulacrum
Burnished Hart
Coldsteel heart
Commander's sphere
Darksteel Ignot


Then some more card draw options to consider..

mind's eye
Mask of memory (with everything flying you should be able to connect easily enough)
Outpost siege (not technically draw but relevant)
The immortal sun
Endless Atlas
Dragon Mage

other wheel effects like Dragon Mage might be an idea....

then I'd also consider more removal, particularly some non-creature options, and many a couple more ways to grant haste to these dragons if possible.

That's a start at least!

Here are some cards to look into.

Belbe's Portal this will help playing high costing dragons as your commander doesn't care about you not casting them. Since this is an ability it can be used similar to play them during an opponent's turn.

Feldon of the Third Path it makes a token of one of your creatures for a turn from the graveyard.

Heirloom Blade dig through the deck to get a dragon when the equipped one dies.

Herald's Horn one generic cost reduction and a draw if the top card is of chosen creature type.

Urza's Incubator reduces cost by 2 of the chosen creature type.

Semblance Anvil same thing but by exiling a creature from the hand.

Chandra, Flamecaller is a better option over Dragon Mage if you need that type of draw effect.

Berserkers' Onslaught is the kind of mass buff I would suggest for dragons to maximize damage.

If there was ever a deck that wants to run Sarkhan the Masterless, then this is it. You can cut Coat of Arms for it, since it is very win more for you and the risk of another deck actually gaining much more from it is very real.

Instead of Berserker's Onslaught, I'd go with Warstorm Surge instead. Gives you acces to some removal and can kill an opponent outside of the combat step.

I'm gonna respond to your posts in order, but I'm not gonna quote the whole thing.

@joeyb11223: First off, thanks for the in-depth response! I can't really argue with the 'cut bad dragons, play better dragons quicker' approach you've advocated, and most of the suggested cuts are stuff that, on reflection, I'd probably have arrived at after a few more games. I'll likely keep Dragonlord's Servant though. Also Possibility Storm, as not only is it a pet card but there's quite a few combo decks in my meta that it's been really useful against. My initial reluctance to use wheel effects was essentially that if I'm having trouble casting the current hand of 6-drops, then a new hand of 6-drops won't be better. This should probably have been my first clue that I should do something about that, but I make no claims to being any good at this!

@Singe: I won't lie, all the cards you're suggesting are ones I'd either forgotten about or didn't know about. Magic's been on the back-burner for me most of the past year as I've not had much time to play due to work. I'll definitely be looking into the Portal, Horn and Incubator. Thanks for taking the time!

@Ertai Planeswalker: Warstorm Surge seems like a solid shout for non-combat damage, certainly more impactful than Akoum Hellkite and Spawn of Thraxes. Cheers for the suggestion!

Right then, time to go through the box of stuff and see what, if anything, I can swap out.

Dragonlover

Quote from Dragonlover »

My initial reluctance to use wheel effects was essentially that if I'm having trouble casting the current hand of 6-drops, then a new hand of 6-drops won't be better. This should probably have been my first clue that I should do something about that, but I make no claims to being any good at this!

I think since red lacks the draw think of using them more when you're hand is empty or almost there, as a draw 7 type thing.

Another red tribal card which comes to mind

Mana echoes, I'd say it might be overcosted usually but for you I think it'll work quite well. If you have your commander out alone say, then play a dragon, you get 2 mana, then your commander makes a dragon token enter play, so you get an addition 3 mana, so now you've just gotten 5 colorless mana to spend on another card, your dragons could actually give you more mana back than they cost in this situation. (The card counts the creature entering the battlefield as well, so even if you have no dragons in play and cast one, you still get 1 mana back.)

Hmm, not one I'd considered but it's worth keeping an eye out for. After all, if it turns out to not work I'm sure I'll find another use for it!

Made a couple of changes, including a Lightning Greaves since if Lathliss dies a couple of times she gets a bit prohibitively expensive, and the haste is always nice.

Dragonlover

This being a mono-Red deck, Koth of the Hammer could be another Planeswalker option. His first and second abilities can help if you need more R.