Your noticeable includes
your Baleful Strix -> my Coiling Oracle, higher Simic count but has the potential to ramp
your Rakdos Charm, Kolaghan's Command, Golgari Charm, Boros Charm -> my Assassin's Trophy. Too often the charms underwhelm me :c Maybe difference in meta. Decimate frustrates me lol. Too often no one has an enchantment so you can't even cast this card, or you have to destroy your own enchantment
your Counterflux, Kaya's Wrath -> my Psychic Strike, Supreme Verdict: less color intensive Mistmeadow Witch, how do you like this one? The ability seems expensive so you can't use it when you cast Niv and then have to use your whole next turn to recur him when you could be casting whatever Niv drew you. I'm curious though, I could be wrong! Brago, King Eternal, drop this the turn before Niv, then attack right after he drops. Seems sweet, how do you like him? Vanish into Memory, Saffi Eriksdotter, Protean Raider, Evil Twin, Altered Ego, Progenitor Mimic: you run lots of flicker, some of it is expensive. My thought is that cards should ramp us so we can cast Niv for card advantage, then try to keep Walkers alive until they can ultimate. So too many flicker cards means less ramp that we could be drawing into and a less consistent t4 Niv. What's your main win-con?
Please don't feel the need to address everything I've written! Mainly just curious about the deck's main objective, and explaining my card choices helps me brainstorm
All very good options. I do have so of those in my Astral-Living-Genesis deck, so a lot comes down to quantity of color-management.
For example I would play Coiling Oracle over Baleful Strix, but that would skew the number too much unfavorable towards Simic.
I agree the Charms are very situational, but those particular Guilds are not great on card quality in the first place. But they are not without their uses, especially deep into a game.
I'm am giving up probably power for flavor and theme, with having so many blink effects. But I can't help myself. The reality is that I should probably cut back on at least two, and the most mana intensive are Mistmeadow Witch and Progenitor Mimic. So I could see these being replaced by further mana sources in the future. Brago, King Eternal is pretty incredible in general, I have a reasonable amount of ETB. Plus you get to reuse planeswalkers as well, so just depends on how many targets you have.
It's hard to go wrong with Captain Sisay. My thought is that you really will always have action cards in your hand anyway, so spending the mana to then wait a turn isn't that appealing. If I could get some legendary land into the deck then it would be better, as finding mana sources off Niv-Mizzet Reborn trigger is a key component. Maybe with Gaea's Cradle I'd be tempted.
I do have Grand Arbiter Augustin IV in my Astral-Living-Genesis deck, anything that can help with mana is going to be good. Unfortunately I have an Azorius saturation in Master of Guilds, so had to cut it in the end.
I had Psychic Strike and Supreme Verdict in my original list, but again due to color-pie management I shifted like cards in other Guilds. This sort of stuff is actually really fun to try and balance things. You might trade off a little bit of power for the sake of better distribution.
As far as three colored cards, I was playing Aminatou, the Fateshifter as another blink source. She is incredible versatile, as she can be a mana creator just targeting a land. She goes infinite with Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God and Oath of Teferi as you get to use their abilities and then keep blinking each other to reset.
So you might want to swap say Trace of Abundance for her, as she costs one more, but waaaaay higher upside.
Keep us informed of how you do and any changes or thoughts you encounter
Holy cow. The artwork and primer are both stunning. Shame I found this AFTER making my own list of noteworthy cards. I definitely missed a few, but here it is anyway for anyone currently brewing:
Holy cow. The artwork and primer are both stunning. Shame I found this AFTER making my own list of noteworthy cards. I definitely missed a few, but here it is anyway for anyone currently brewing: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/guildmaster-niv/?cb=1555177405
Thanks for the compliments and that list, always welcome. In fact I saw Leave // Chance in your list which I hadn't seen before. Perfect for Astral-Living-Genesis deck, as discarding and draw are at a premium for it and it gives Boros some more numbers.
Decimate frustrates me lol. Too often no one has an enchantment so you can't even cast this card, or you have to destroy your own enchantment
Casualties of War is a new spoiler which fills a similar role but in Golgari and has the upside of not needing all the targets, however much more mana intensive. But still very powerful card.
Decimate frustrates me lol. Too often no one has an enchantment so you can't even cast this card, or you have to destroy your own enchantment
Casualties of War is a new spoiler which fills a similar role but in Golgari and has the upside of not needing all the targets, however much more mana intensive. But still very powerful card.
Ooh I've been eyeing that card. It's really good, but like you said, really high cost. I would probably go back toHull Breach before I added it.
Also, I'm riding that Aminatou train like you suggested. We can assemble the entire combo with Captain Sisay! The chain is: Sisay -> Kiora -> Aminatou -> Bolas -> Oath of Teferi. You can do it in one turn but it costs 5WWUUUBBBBR(G/U) LOL. I feel like I need more finishers than just that (and beating with Niv-Mizzet).
I've been toying with the idea of allowing cards with a multicolor identity, like Noble Hierarch. But besides threeotherdorks, I couldn't really come up with anything useful enough that it's worth the loss in flavor and Niv synergy.
Heartwarming Redemption is perfect for the Astral-Living-Genesis deck, allowing you discard cards to make the mass reanimation cards work.
Also it gives Boros another card which only had 4, so now 5.
Having the spare mana to actually use the The Scarab God ability is not going to happen very often, and not a 6 drop creature either, so doesn't fit into the Immortal Servitude plan of aiming for 6
Dimir had 8 cards as well, so wanted to take from the highest color paired.
Sorry to bother, I've been doing a bit of proxied testing with the Astral-Living-Genesis list because I have Reaper King Slide and had many of the pieces. I was wondering if instead of one of the other rainbow lands in the deck if [[Grand Coliseum]] would be a good include. The deck struggles without Slide, and Displacer is a very good alternative. I just have struggled to get 2+ colorless lands consistently, and think Coliseum could help that greatly.
Sorry to bother, I've been doing a bit of proxied testing with the Astral-Living-Genesis list because I have Reaper King Slide and had many of the pieces. I was wondering if instead of one of the other rainbow lands in the deck if [[Grand Coliseum]] would be a good include. The deck struggles without Slide, and Displacer is a very good alternative. I just have struggled to get 2+ colorless lands consistently, and think Coliseum could help that greatly.
It might be that it's better to bite the bullet and just play a few more tutors like Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor to have a few more shots at getting setup with Astral Slide. It means that these will be possible cascade targets, but let's face it, you can just get something that will allow you to do what you want anyway with these. I mean you could literally just get another cascade card and go for it again.
So I'm pretty tempted.
Drawing Living End or Hypergenesis is a pain, and suspending them just gives the game away waaay too much. As Foretold allows you to cast them if you draw them. Also As Foretold can just be used to cast other cards eventually, so seems worth it.
I also wanted a way to cast Living End or Hypergenesis from the graveyard. Goblin Dark-Dwellers allows you to do that.
This give you alternatives further into the game.
I actually find that I will always having multiple cascade cards, so it's fine to fire one off even if you're not sure if it will be from the hand (Hypergenesis) or graveyard (Living End). You can just choose not to cast it. Then later on in the game you can potentially use Goblin Dark-Dwellers to cast it again. Also insurance against your spell getting countered as well. Further to that you might just want to cast it again later on if the board has been dealt with.
Rasputin Dreamweaver has been a nice 6 mana creature that can provide mana. I see it's a $128 these days so understand if you don't run it.
I really love your deck brew. I tried a few test plays and thought it was fun in a way I don't usually play. I was wondering a few months ago how to use Astral Slide in a fun way.
I might have missed it, but can you get Astral Slide with Bring to Light?
I really love your deck brew. I tried a few test plays and thought it was fun in a way I don't usually play. I was wondering a few months ago how to use Astral Slide in a fun way.
I might have missed it, but can you get Astral Slide with Bring to Light?
Thank you, it does attack tha game on quite a few different levels, that's for sure.
Yes you can use Bring to Light to get any card 5 mana or less, as long as you have enough different colors to pay for the amount you want. So as long as you use three different colors to pay for Bring to Light you can get Astral Slide.
Bring to Light specifically says creature, instant or Sorcery. Still amazing but doesn't get Astral Slide directly, can tutor off it with idyllic or demonic.
What about Underrealm Lich for the cycling? The only downside I really see is the fact that it cost 5 instead of 6. Lets you control draw better and feed the graveyard.
What about Underrealm Lich for the cycling? The only downside I really see is the fact that it cost 5 instead of 6. Lets you control draw better and feed the graveyard.
There is a massive payoff with Underrealm Lich. Even if you just use your one draw for the turn, and put 2 cards into graveyard, that is pretty good. Helps to even the color-pie distribution as well.
I'm going to try it over Architects of Will as Dimir has the most cards.
Great deck! I've been fascinated with optimizing a Niv-Mizzet Reborn deck ever since the card was spoiled. I was disappointed by the number of non-two-color cards in the initial deck lists I saw.
The decks have gone in slightly different directions, but they both fall in to the category of 2-color good stuff. I'll highlight some of the differences, but I don't mean to imply that my list is better. I'm just highlighting my thoughts.
Non Guild cards: I left out sol ring and the like in favour for all lands. My logic was, Mana Crypt and Sol Ring don't help cast Niv-Mizzet Reborn so more lands would be better. I have 39 lands and exactly 6 cards of each guild. I have Mistveil Plains in the deck, My logic being to add the 2-color spells back to the library and use the shuffle effects to improve Niv-Mizzet Reborn triggers, However it might be too subtle to be worth it.
Borderposts: I'm running 5 basics and it still felt like I always needed to pay 3 for these, also I did not like the bounce because does it not actually accelerate. I found enough other mana cards to avoid them.
Azorius: I have less flicker/blink effects and more targets. Elite Guardmage is a nice target for the flicker effects and Unbender Tine is the Azorious version Kiora's Follower. I lack reanimation in my build so I avoided Vanish into Memory. I have less Planeswalkers so Oath of Teferi is also missing.
Dimir: Diabolic Vision, Psychic Symbiont, and Recoil are cards in my list, but Countersquall/Undermine may be better cards. Diabolic Vision can be a used to set up a Niv-trigger.
Rakdos: I went with ETB creatures to fill out this color pair: Hellhole Rats, Murderous Redcap, Rakdos Firewheeler, and Sanity Gnawers.
Gruul: I'm surprised not to see Wild Cantor and Draconic Disciple. I went with Raging Regisaur and Regisaur Alpha for a small dinosaur theme. (Atzocan Seer helps out.) Rhythm of the Wild is nice here, with blink effect creatures can get both haste and +1/+1 counter. (haste, attack, blink, +1/+1). I wish I had room for both Radha, Heir to Keld,and Zhur-Taa Druid, but I used one preferring the higher mana cost of Draconic Disciple to get the "any color of mana".
Selesnya: Atzocan Seer, Eladamri's Call, Knight of New Alara, Reborn Hope, and Steward of Valeron. Privileged Position is the only card in both lists. I avoided Mirari's Wake since it does not help cast Niv-Mizzet. I like Safewright Quest, but I felt I had enough lands that did this effect. I'd like to find room for Aura Shards. Knight of New Alara makes Niv-Mizzet Reborn an 11/11 flyer and all the other non-token creatures get +2/+2
Orzhov: Angel of Despair is a great target for Mistmeadow Witch or Venser. I went with Vindicate over Anguished Unmaking just to be able to hit problematic lands. I still need to get Kaya, Ghost Assassin, but I plan to add her when I do.
Izzet: Cloven Casting I felt belonged in the deck. Hypersonic Dragon lets me feel better about sorcery spells I put in. I went with more damage spells here over the counter magic: Electrolyze and Prophetic Bolt. Fire/Ice would be nice too, but I did not make room for it, I wanted Counterflux in.
Golgari: Very similar. I have Golgari Findbroker, Assassin's Trophy, and Pernicious Deed, instead of Charm, Journey, and Bloom.
Boros: Sky Terror is an nice quick creature with 2 evasion abilities. Good for taking out Planeswalkers, or at least keeping them from ultimate. Aurelia, the Warleader and Deflecting Palm are cards excluded from your list.
Simic: I love Bring to Light, Niv-Mizzet Reborn sees a two color spell, but I see a 5 color spell that does exactly what I need it to. Kruphix, God of Horizons, I added to avoid discarding, which is possible sub-optimal. Temporal Spring is another "target permanent" sorcery I went with for the versatility.
I plan to do some more experimenting. Thanks again for sharing you lists! I hope you find my comments useful or at least interesting.
Great deck! I've been fascinated with optimizing a Niv-Mizzet Reborn deck ever since the card was spoiled. I was disappointed by the number of non-two-color cards in the initial deck lists I saw.
Steward of Valeron is something I should play over Wildfield Borderpost for a Selesnya pick as it's probably one mana less to cast.
Yeah 9 out of 10 times I'm hard casting the borderposts. Returning a land to hand feel pretty bad if you have other lands in hand. But I am only running 35 lands, so if I'm super disciplined I can fetch for my one basic, but that is pretty hard to do when you want to be color-fixing as well.
I like the perfect 6 for each color-paring, I'm not that disciplined Had to go for a bit of quality, but I still feel conformable with the distribution (we are talking hairs of percentages).
Unbender Tine looks like a very versatile card, mana being the first port of call, but of course can untap anything. It's a shame that I already have 8 in Azorius.
I did have Draconic Disciple lined up for Gruul but I went with planeswalker options for mana generating instead. I a bit of a sucker for walkers.
Thanks again for sharing and keep us posted on how you go.
Just a suggestion, but I think Mina and Denn, Wildborn might be worth looking into for players doing a budget list when it comes to the mana base. The ability to drop more than one land on to the battlefield is really good when running all ten of the Ravnica bounce lands. might even be worth putting in one or two more effects like it such as Rights of Flourishing, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Wayward Swordtooth or maybe The Gitrog Monster (with perhaps a crucible of worlds style of effect) depending on the collection and budget.
Just a suggestion, but I think Mina and Denn, Wildborn might be worth looking into for players doing a budget list when it comes to the mana base. The ability to drop more than one land on to the battlefield is really good when running all ten of the Ravnica bounce lands. might even be worth putting in one or two more effects like it such as Rights of Flourishing, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Wayward Swordtooth or maybe The Gitrog Monster (with perhaps a crucible of worlds style of effect) depending on the collection and budget.
I'm inclined to try Mina and Denn, Wildborn in my Astral-Living-Genesis deck, because of the land cyclers, it is possible to grab multiple lands in a turn.
There are a tons of different ways to play a 5 color land base and certainly if you were running the bounce lands then you'd certainly look to play out the additional land cards per turn.
I seem to always find my way to your threads. I've been working on Niv myself since he got spoiled and also ended up at an Astral Slide deck. Needless to say, I was delighted to see Astral Drift spoiled a couple days after I started working on it. I had yet to refine my list to something I was proud of, so I decided to take your list for a spin to see how I liked it. It performed amazingly well, but I had some questions about a few cards in particular.
How do you consistently get Astral Slide in to play? I was using tutors in the first draft of my deck, but you only seem to have a couple of cards that are able to get Astral Slide for you.
Rasputin Dreamweaver - I'm not even really sure how this card helps the game plan. It's a seven CMC card that makes one colorless mana every turn after sort of paying for itself if you hard cast it. If you're getting it off of Hypergenesis or Living End, you're probably already about to win the game. Azorius has the most cards in your list, and I think he's one of the least helpful cards in the deck overall.
Underrealm Lich - This card isn't in your deck, but I imagine it lets you filter your deck and pitch more stuff into the graveyard, as well as fixes your hand way really well. Golgari also has the least cards in the deck, do you think it would be worth it to include it?
In general, I felt I would be happier with some more counter spells to protect the combo pieces better. Counterflux, Ionize, Render Silent, Absorb, Psychic Strike, Undermine, Voidslime are all 3CMC counters that don't interfere with your Cascade plan. I imagine if you ran some combination of them, it would be almost impossible to not have at least one counter spell ready each turn. Do you find that just Perplex is enough most of the time? Or do you just find yourself not in counter wars or not in need of protection very often?
I also noticed that you have all the shock lands except for Blood Crypt. Would it not be better to use it instead of Grand Coliseum just to avoid lands that enter tapped? Or is Grand Coliseum good enough to ignore the fact that it enters tapped?
Then the last thing I could think of is that you're a little light on Orzhov cards, having the least in the deck tied with Golgari. Are there any more Orzhov cards that you think could be worth running? Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair are the only two that come to mind for me.
How do you consistently get Astral Slide in to play? I was using tutors in the first draft of my deck, but you only seem to have a couple of cards that are able to get Astral Slide for you.
Hey SirGregarious. Well I've been playing the Astral-Living-Genesis deck a lot, and the thing is that I hardly ever play Astral Slide unfortunately due to...well hardly ever drawing it.
But that's OK, it turns out you only need to get a single to a few activation of Niv-Mizzet Reborn to probably set yourself up. If you can get more then great.
I should really change the thread explanation, and have the idea of the Astral Slide as kind of a bonus, rather than the name sake of the deck. But I would have never gotten the core idea of the cascade plan without it, so just left the thread as the original theory-crafting explanation.
I've probably played like 50 games and had a proper Astral Slide setup twice. But I still win a lot of games, because the Living End or Hypergenesis just end up being too much for opponents, with just a single/few Niv-Mizzet Reborn triggers.
With all that said however, the cyclers are fantastic, especially the land cyclers. You get land drops off Niv-Mizzet which is great. But what I've been doing is removing the non-land cyclers (because Astral Slide isn't a huge factor to the reality of most games).
I should add a section "How to play" now that I've got a lot of experience under my belt. That'll be my next task for this thread, and it'll explain things more clearly.
Rasputin Dreamweaver - I'm not even really sure how this card helps the game plan. It's a seven CMC card that makes one colorless mana every turn after sort of paying for itself if you hard cast it. If you're getting it off of Hypergenesis or Living End, you're probably already about to win the game. Azorius has the most cards in your list, and I think he's one of the least helpful cards in the deck overall.
I've had good interactions with Rasputin Dreamweaver. It's not always that your Living End of Hypergensis is a massive one if you're going for it early. Setting up for further things does happen. He is not a key card however and it's a $124, and Azorius is on 7 color-pairings (highest), so this is easily replaced if you want.
Actually as it turns out Rakdos, Lord of Riots has been the least useful of the creatures. Never cast it on Turn 4 (of course) and the colorless portion can only be used on creatures. Where I've used Rasputin Dreamweaver for things like Eldrazi Displacer activation's.
Then Golgari Findbroker has also been something I just never used. Really need fetch land to get any use, as I don't want to put creatures back into my hand just in case of Living...stuff.
Underrealm Lich - This card isn't in your deck, but I imagine it lets you filter your deck and pitch more stuff into the graveyard, as well as fixes your hand way really well. Golgari also has the least cards in the deck, do you think it would be worth it to include it?
Too be honest I misread Underrealm Lich and thought it only grabbed creature cards for some reason. It's definitely a powerful slot for Golgari and worth a try with adding The Gitrog Monster to the mix already.
Yeah I guess because it doesn't have an ability that is very relevant to commander, that I didn't end up adding it, although haste to all creatures is suuuuper great if you have it. Just killing off the person that could deal with your board means that you normally win the game in that situation.
I have to say much like Astral Slide, I have cast Immortal Servitude only a couple of times. Casting it for 9 mana to get the 6 drops has only happened when I had Cadaverous Bloom to fuel the mana to cast it.
So in the end, distributing your casting costs, doesn't really matter long term for the deck.
In general, I felt I would be happier with some more counter spells to protect the combo pieces better. Counterflux, Ionize, Render Silent, Absorb, Psychic Strike, Undermine, Voidslime are all 3CMC counters that don't interfere with your Cascade plan. I imagine if you ran some combination of them, it would be almost impossible to not have at least one counter spell ready each turn. Do you find that just Perplex is enough most of the time? Or do you just find yourself not in counter wars or not in need of protection very often?
I NEVER have mana spare, certainly not three in opponents turns. I was thinking about Force of Will as a non-color paired card that I might naturally draw, and I just did a count of 26 blue cards, which is fine considering Niv-Miz draw into blue cards as well. There is also Force of Negation, which could be worth considering as well.
I also noticed that you have all the shock lands except for Blood Crypt. Would it not be better to use it instead of Grand Coliseum just to avoid lands that enter tapped? Or is Grand Coliseum good enough to ignore the fact that it enters tapped?
It is nice having colorless sources for Eldrazi Displacer, which I have used.
Then the last thing I could think of is that you're a little light on Orzhov cards, having the least in the deck tied with Golgari. Are there any more Orzhov cards that you think could be worth running? Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair are the only two that come to mind for me.
Well as I was saying about hardly ever casting Immortal Servitude, that you can really switch your creatures to something that you are straight up think is a great core. This might just be better to run Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair over others.
All very good options. I do have so of those in my Astral-Living-Genesis deck, so a lot comes down to quantity of color-management.
For example I would play Coiling Oracle over Baleful Strix, but that would skew the number too much unfavorable towards Simic.
I agree the Charms are very situational, but those particular Guilds are not great on card quality in the first place. But they are not without their uses, especially deep into a game.
I'm am giving up probably power for flavor and theme, with having so many blink effects. But I can't help myself. The reality is that I should probably cut back on at least two, and the most mana intensive are Mistmeadow Witch and Progenitor Mimic. So I could see these being replaced by further mana sources in the future.
Brago, King Eternal is pretty incredible in general, I have a reasonable amount of ETB. Plus you get to reuse planeswalkers as well, so just depends on how many targets you have.
It's hard to go wrong with Captain Sisay. My thought is that you really will always have action cards in your hand anyway, so spending the mana to then wait a turn isn't that appealing. If I could get some legendary land into the deck then it would be better, as finding mana sources off Niv-Mizzet Reborn trigger is a key component. Maybe with Gaea's Cradle I'd be tempted.
I do have Grand Arbiter Augustin IV in my Astral-Living-Genesis deck, anything that can help with mana is going to be good. Unfortunately I have an Azorius saturation in Master of Guilds, so had to cut it in the end.
I had Psychic Strike and Supreme Verdict in my original list, but again due to color-pie management I shifted like cards in other Guilds. This sort of stuff is actually really fun to try and balance things. You might trade off a little bit of power for the sake of better distribution.
As far as three colored cards, I was playing Aminatou, the Fateshifter as another blink source. She is incredible versatile, as she can be a mana creator just targeting a land. She goes infinite with Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God and Oath of Teferi as you get to use their abilities and then keep blinking each other to reset.
So you might want to swap say Trace of Abundance for her, as she costs one more, but waaaaay higher upside.
Keep us informed of how you do and any changes or thoughts you encounter
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Assuming 5 cards per guild, your mean cards drawn will be 4.2, and your 1st-to-3rd quartile range will be 3-5.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/guildmaster-niv/?cb=1555177405
Added
+ Leave // Chance
Removed
- Psychatog
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Also, I'm riding that Aminatou train like you suggested. We can assemble the entire combo with Captain Sisay! The chain is: Sisay -> Kiora -> Aminatou -> Bolas -> Oath of Teferi. You can do it in one turn but it costs 5WWUUUBBBBR(G/U) LOL. I feel like I need more finishers than just that (and beating with Niv-Mizzet).
I've been toying with the idea of allowing cards with a multicolor identity, like Noble Hierarch. But besides three other dorks, I couldn't really come up with anything useful enough that it's worth the loss in flavor and Niv synergy.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
Also it gives Boros another card which only had 4, so now 5.
Astral-Living-Genesis
Added
+ Heartwarming Redemption
Removed
- The Scarab God
Having the spare mana to actually use the The Scarab God ability is not going to happen very often, and not a 6 drop creature either, so doesn't fit into the Immortal Servitude plan of aiming for 6
Dimir had 8 cards as well, so wanted to take from the highest color paired.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Other cards to look at to help with colorless are Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix, Weaver of Currents.
Another slightly strange option is that three of the cards have basic land cycling, Ancient Excavation, Grave Upheaval, Sylvan Reclamation, so you could run a Wastes.
But once you start dedicating cards to colorless in a all color deck it becomes a bit of a nonbo.
Bounty of the Luxa is a nice option as it gets colors and colorless.
It might be that it's better to bite the bullet and just play a few more tutors like Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor to have a few more shots at getting setup with Astral Slide. It means that these will be possible cascade targets, but let's face it, you can just get something that will allow you to do what you want anyway with these. I mean you could literally just get another cascade card and go for it again.
So I'm pretty tempted.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Astral-Living-Genesis
Added
+ Rasputin Dreamweaver
+ As Foretold
+ Goblin Dark-Dwellers
+ Grand Coliseum
+ Tarnished Citadel
Removed
- Razaketh's Rite
- Bloodbraid Elf
- Glassdust Hulk
- Sunken Ruins
- Blood Crypt
Drawing Living End or Hypergenesis is a pain, and suspending them just gives the game away waaay too much.
As Foretold allows you to cast them if you draw them. Also As Foretold can just be used to cast other cards eventually, so seems worth it.
I also wanted a way to cast Living End or Hypergenesis from the graveyard. Goblin Dark-Dwellers allows you to do that.
This give you alternatives further into the game.
I actually find that I will always having multiple cascade cards, so it's fine to fire one off even if you're not sure if it will be from the hand (Hypergenesis) or graveyard (Living End). You can just choose not to cast it. Then later on in the game you can potentially use Goblin Dark-Dwellers to cast it again. Also insurance against your spell getting countered as well. Further to that you might just want to cast it again later on if the board has been dealt with.
Rasputin Dreamweaver has been a nice 6 mana creature that can provide mana. I see it's a $128 these days so understand if you don't run it.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I might have missed it, but can you get Astral Slide with Bring to Light?
Yes you can use Bring to Light to get any card 5 mana or less, as long as you have enough different colors to pay for the amount you want. So as long as you use three different colors to pay for Bring to Light you can get Astral Slide.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm going to try it over Architects of Will as Dimir has the most cards.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Astral Drift is straight up another Astral Slide for the name-sake Astral-Living-Genesis deck. That is exciting!
Collected Conjuring although not particular strong card, does allow for potentially casting Living End or Hypergenesis of the top six card of library.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I have an alternate "Master of Guilds" build here: Maximized Niv-Mizzet Reborn
The decks have gone in slightly different directions, but they both fall in to the category of 2-color good stuff. I'll highlight some of the differences, but I don't mean to imply that my list is better. I'm just highlighting my thoughts.
Non Guild cards: I left out sol ring and the like in favour for all lands. My logic was, Mana Crypt and Sol Ring don't help cast Niv-Mizzet Reborn so more lands would be better. I have 39 lands and exactly 6 cards of each guild. I have Mistveil Plains in the deck, My logic being to add the 2-color spells back to the library and use the shuffle effects to improve Niv-Mizzet Reborn triggers, However it might be too subtle to be worth it.
Borderposts: I'm running 5 basics and it still felt like I always needed to pay 3 for these, also I did not like the bounce because does it not actually accelerate. I found enough other mana cards to avoid them.
Azorius: I have less flicker/blink effects and more targets. Elite Guardmage is a nice target for the flicker effects and Unbender Tine is the Azorious version Kiora's Follower. I lack reanimation in my build so I avoided Vanish into Memory. I have less Planeswalkers so Oath of Teferi is also missing.
Dimir: Diabolic Vision, Psychic Symbiont, and Recoil are cards in my list, but Countersquall/Undermine may be better cards. Diabolic Vision can be a used to set up a Niv-trigger.
Rakdos: I went with ETB creatures to fill out this color pair: Hellhole Rats, Murderous Redcap, Rakdos Firewheeler, and Sanity Gnawers.
Gruul: I'm surprised not to see Wild Cantor and Draconic Disciple. I went with Raging Regisaur and Regisaur Alpha for a small dinosaur theme. (Atzocan Seer helps out.) Rhythm of the Wild is nice here, with blink effect creatures can get both haste and +1/+1 counter. (haste, attack, blink, +1/+1). I wish I had room for both Radha, Heir to Keld,and Zhur-Taa Druid, but I used one preferring the higher mana cost of Draconic Disciple to get the "any color of mana".
Selesnya: Atzocan Seer, Eladamri's Call, Knight of New Alara, Reborn Hope, and Steward of Valeron. Privileged Position is the only card in both lists. I avoided Mirari's Wake since it does not help cast Niv-Mizzet. I like Safewright Quest, but I felt I had enough lands that did this effect. I'd like to find room for Aura Shards. Knight of New Alara makes Niv-Mizzet Reborn an 11/11 flyer and all the other non-token creatures get +2/+2
Orzhov: Angel of Despair is a great target for Mistmeadow Witch or Venser. I went with Vindicate over Anguished Unmaking just to be able to hit problematic lands. I still need to get Kaya, Ghost Assassin, but I plan to add her when I do.
Izzet: Cloven Casting I felt belonged in the deck. Hypersonic Dragon lets me feel better about sorcery spells I put in. I went with more damage spells here over the counter magic: Electrolyze and Prophetic Bolt. Fire/Ice would be nice too, but I did not make room for it, I wanted Counterflux in.
Golgari: Very similar. I have Golgari Findbroker, Assassin's Trophy, and Pernicious Deed, instead of Charm, Journey, and Bloom.
Boros: Sky Terror is an nice quick creature with 2 evasion abilities. Good for taking out Planeswalkers, or at least keeping them from ultimate. Aurelia, the Warleader and Deflecting Palm are cards excluded from your list.
Simic: I love Bring to Light, Niv-Mizzet Reborn sees a two color spell, but I see a 5 color spell that does exactly what I need it to. Kruphix, God of Horizons, I added to avoid discarding, which is possible sub-optimal. Temporal Spring is another "target permanent" sorcery I went with for the versatility.
I plan to do some more experimenting. Thanks again for sharing you lists! I hope you find my comments useful or at least interesting.
Steward of Valeron is something I should play over Wildfield Borderpost for a Selesnya pick as it's probably one mana less to cast.
Yeah 9 out of 10 times I'm hard casting the borderposts. Returning a land to hand feel pretty bad if you have other lands in hand. But I am only running 35 lands, so if I'm super disciplined I can fetch for my one basic, but that is pretty hard to do when you want to be color-fixing as well.
I like the perfect 6 for each color-paring, I'm not that disciplined Had to go for a bit of quality, but I still feel conformable with the distribution (we are talking hairs of percentages).
Unbender Tine looks like a very versatile card, mana being the first port of call, but of course can untap anything. It's a shame that I already have 8 in Azorius.
I did have Draconic Disciple lined up for Gruul but I went with planeswalker options for mana generating instead. I a bit of a sucker for walkers.
Thanks again for sharing and keep us posted on how you go.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
There are a tons of different ways to play a 5 color land base and certainly if you were running the bounce lands then you'd certainly look to play out the additional land cards per turn.
FYI there is the new planeswalker from Modern Horizons Wrenn And Six (Gruul) that sort of acts like a Crucible of the Worlds.
The Gitrog Monster has definitely crossed my mind. Bonuses for the cycle lands.
Astral-Living-Genesis
Added
+ Mina and Denn, Wildborn
+ The Gitrog Monster
Removed
- Captain Sisay
- Architects of Will
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
How do you consistently get Astral Slide in to play? I was using tutors in the first draft of my deck, but you only seem to have a couple of cards that are able to get Astral Slide for you.
Rasputin Dreamweaver - I'm not even really sure how this card helps the game plan. It's a seven CMC card that makes one colorless mana every turn after sort of paying for itself if you hard cast it. If you're getting it off of Hypergenesis or Living End, you're probably already about to win the game. Azorius has the most cards in your list, and I think he's one of the least helpful cards in the deck overall.
Underrealm Lich - This card isn't in your deck, but I imagine it lets you filter your deck and pitch more stuff into the graveyard, as well as fixes your hand way really well. Golgari also has the least cards in the deck, do you think it would be worth it to include it?
Dragonlord Kolaghan - This card isn't in your deck, but you have Garna, the Bloodflame and Samut, Voice of Dissent in to provide haste. They don't match that 6 CMC cost you want to hit with Immortal Servitude, but this guy does. Is there any reason he isn't included?
In general, I felt I would be happier with some more counter spells to protect the combo pieces better. Counterflux, Ionize, Render Silent, Absorb, Psychic Strike, Undermine, Voidslime are all 3CMC counters that don't interfere with your Cascade plan. I imagine if you ran some combination of them, it would be almost impossible to not have at least one counter spell ready each turn. Do you find that just Perplex is enough most of the time? Or do you just find yourself not in counter wars or not in need of protection very often?
I also noticed that you have all the shock lands except for Blood Crypt. Would it not be better to use it instead of Grand Coliseum just to avoid lands that enter tapped? Or is Grand Coliseum good enough to ignore the fact that it enters tapped?
Then the last thing I could think of is that you're a little light on Orzhov cards, having the least in the deck tied with Golgari. Are there any more Orzhov cards that you think could be worth running? Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair are the only two that come to mind for me.
But that's OK, it turns out you only need to get a single to a few activation of Niv-Mizzet Reborn to probably set yourself up. If you can get more then great.
I should really change the thread explanation, and have the idea of the Astral Slide as kind of a bonus, rather than the name sake of the deck. But I would have never gotten the core idea of the cascade plan without it, so just left the thread as the original theory-crafting explanation.
I've probably played like 50 games and had a proper Astral Slide setup twice. But I still win a lot of games, because the Living End or Hypergenesis just end up being too much for opponents, with just a single/few Niv-Mizzet Reborn triggers.
With all that said however, the cyclers are fantastic, especially the land cyclers. You get land drops off Niv-Mizzet which is great. But what I've been doing is removing the non-land cyclers (because Astral Slide isn't a huge factor to the reality of most games).
I should add a section "How to play" now that I've got a lot of experience under my belt. That'll be my next task for this thread, and it'll explain things more clearly.
I've had good interactions with Rasputin Dreamweaver. It's not always that your Living End of Hypergensis is a massive one if you're going for it early. Setting up for further things does happen. He is not a key card however and it's a $124, and Azorius is on 7 color-pairings (highest), so this is easily replaced if you want.
Actually as it turns out Rakdos, Lord of Riots has been the least useful of the creatures. Never cast it on Turn 4 (of course) and the colorless portion can only be used on creatures. Where I've used Rasputin Dreamweaver for things like Eldrazi Displacer activation's.
Then Golgari Findbroker has also been something I just never used. Really need fetch land to get any use, as I don't want to put creatures back into my hand just in case of Living...stuff.
Too be honest I misread Underrealm Lich and thought it only grabbed creature cards for some reason. It's definitely a powerful slot for Golgari and worth a try with adding The Gitrog Monster to the mix already.
Yeah I guess because it doesn't have an ability that is very relevant to commander, that I didn't end up adding it, although haste to all creatures is suuuuper great if you have it. Just killing off the person that could deal with your board means that you normally win the game in that situation.
I have to say much like Astral Slide, I have cast Immortal Servitude only a couple of times. Casting it for 9 mana to get the 6 drops has only happened when I had Cadaverous Bloom to fuel the mana to cast it.
So in the end, distributing your casting costs, doesn't really matter long term for the deck.
I NEVER have mana spare, certainly not three in opponents turns. I was thinking about Force of Will as a non-color paired card that I might naturally draw, and I just did a count of 26 blue cards, which is fine considering Niv-Miz draw into blue cards as well. There is also Force of Negation, which could be worth considering as well.
It is nice having colorless sources for Eldrazi Displacer, which I have used.
Well as I was saying about hardly ever casting Immortal Servitude, that you can really switch your creatures to something that you are straight up think is a great core. This might just be better to run Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair over others.
I'm more than happy to try the following changes.
Astral-Living-Genesis
Added
+ Underrealm Lich
+ Ashen Rider
+ Angel of Despair
+ Dragonlord Kolaghan
+ Force of Will
Remove
- Rakdos, Lord of Riots
- Rasputin Dreamweaver
- Golgari Findbroker
- Deadshot Minotaur
- Monstrous Carabid
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith