Whenever considering a non-Purph swarm commander, the thought pattern that stops me in my tracks is "what happens when the opponent outclasses me?". It makes sense, really - you set down your weenies, you turn them sideways for a bit, the opponent gets out his Rampaging Baloths, rips a fetch, and now what? Having an indestructible Goblin War Drums/Dolmen Gate combo out of the command zone helps a bit with that, and the commander is simultaneously not worded abusively enough to invite an asymmetric wrath crawl strategy as there are only so many instant speed damage wipes. Perfect!
The list is inspired by an Aurelia, the Warleader that's been a constant of my meta since 2014, trading off some of that list's explosive potential for a feeling of security as I turn my dudes sideways. I'd quite like to find the space for a Sunforger (plus probably some more instants to go into the package), but I'm not sure if the deck has the mana to support it. While the build is quite early days, it plays surprisingly consistently for its stage of development. Possibly because a nontrivial amount of it is aping a known functional deck, and a lot of the pieces do rather redundant things that are known to work. I'm aware it would respond quite well to bonus combats as well, but once again the issue of space rears its head.
Any assistance would be appreciated - am I missing something else obvious? Any easily discernible cuts? These are uncharted realms to me, and while I had a good local deck to approach this from I'd quite like to squeeze as much out of this as possible.
I'm really out of my element here. Creatures is my least favourite cardtype - I tend to play as few as possible Therefore I would properly be confident enough to cut some of the creatures and would efinitely add the Sunforger. That card is super sweet! But yeah, you would want to add more stuf for it to fetch.
One thing stuck out though, Infiltration Lens is kinda of a nonbo if you depend on your dudes to evade blocks (well, most of the time). Maybe Mask of Memory would do a better job?
On things that go KABOOM - how about Arcbond? There's also Inferno though it's really high costed.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I agree the new Krenko is pretty cute, but haven't quite found a spot for him yet, and the instant speed damage cards that you suggested are on the back of my mind too. I cooked up a bunch of changes that I never pushed to the thread - you see, Bolas Rock got spoiled and I went back to my Daxos build to celebrate
Some findings from running the list:
Wraths hurt. Even with some attempt at card advantage, Boros is not super good at keeping a hand stocked with options, so getting chunked back to the stone age is usually game over. How unexpected!
High drops have to do things immediately. By the time you've got tons of mana, you're usually pretty entrenched in the assault, so your high drop has to assist immediately.
The list is a touch too removal-light. A well placed utility noncreature is massive trouble.
34 lands and a few rocks is not quite enough mana, even for a low to the ground aggro build.
Most of the cuts are pretty high cost for what they offer. Scourge of the Throne is extra combats, but by then you should have smashed face a bit and there's a nonzero chance you're the monarch. Plus the boy isn't hasty. Speaking of not being hasty, the other 4-drop plain pump bois offer that option (Hellrider, Ogre Battledriver, Hero of Oxid Ridge), so Inspiring Unicorn with its measly +1/+1 and summoning sickness is not the best. Jazal Goldmane costs an arm and a leg to cast and activate, so taking him out for now as well. Spear of Heliod isn't a dude, Precint Captain needs to clock someone to make the dudebro, Infiltration Lens is indeed conceptually worse than Mask of Memory, Stonehewer Giant is quite mana-rich and none of the current equipment breaks the bank. I realise some of these may be worth to run eventually, but for now I'm still trying to find basic footing and the optimal way forward.
Selfless Spirit performed well in my Mardu aggro heap as anti wipe tech that also turns sideways, so in he goes. Extra mana offered via Hanweir Battlements, Mind Stone and Wayfarer's Bauble (I realise the last of those is a bad idea in an aggro deck, but it'd be nice to have something that isn't a rock). Duergar Hedge-Mage and Wear // Tear help explode stuff. I conceptually acknowledge that it would probably make sense to off Etali, Primal Storm on similar high end trimming grounds, but the Etali was one of my "I want to play this" cards that motivated me to put together a red deck in the first place. As such, I'll keep him around a little longer, see if he sticks a bit better.
The thing that first strikes me is that your deck doesn't have enough draw. You need to keep drawing so those Wraths don't hurt as bad or set you back as much. This is why my Marchesa, the Black Rose has so much draw despite getting my Creatures back - I am going to take casualties and I need to be ale to keep playing Creatures. Unfortunately, Boros means you need to get Creative. Smuggler's Copter improves your card quality, Prophetic Flamespeaker and Stromkirk Occultist give you Impulsive Draw. Normally, I would dedicate Outpost Siege to this spot but your deck wants to turn sideways, it would be hard to justify giving your opponent's a breather. Grenzo, Havoc Raiser gives pseudo-draw but more importantly, Goad makes people attack each other. This means you have less life you need to chew through, more peoples' Creatures are tapped so it gets easier to keep getting in and he has a natural synergy with Iroas' Menace.
Other ways to save your board: Scapegoat, you use lots of tokens so this will be easy and it's low to the ground to save you. Teferi's Protection if you got the money for it. Ghostway and Eerie Interlude can help saving your board.
You also need to cut down the board quickly: Throne of the God-Pharaoh would help with how much your board turns sideways. Oketra's Monument makes your White Creatures cheaper and spews out more bodies. They can also block due to Vigilance, so you can getting into trade wars and come ahead. I think this is better than Assemble the Legion, I've never made a deck that could work with Legion. Mirror Entity gives you something to do with all of the mana you have, helps you close out the game and dodges Exile Wraths when you pay 0 in response. Repercussion will make Blocks irrelevant, so this might be worth testing, but that might move you more towards a "Saboteur" Build. Boros Garrison is a low opportunity cost way to increase your damage output when you have spare mana in the late game.
It does sound like you don't want to use Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge but they are a very reliable way to kill the board with the amount of bodies your deck spews out.
If creatures are annabundant resoirce, Culling Dais and Slate of Ancestry can be really nice sources of cards. Dais can save from exile.Inheritance is not amazing, but it plays battee than it looks and can give you the edge needed to off that last opponent.
Crescendo of war can swell your army a lot. keep in mind that only buffs your blockers and not everyone else's.
I have to second Oketra's monument. The cost reduction can translate in more threats, and its tokens add up.
Legion's initiative buffs some of your guys and can protect your creatures. Versatility can be very important.
A new flying proliferate-on-hit white guy has been spoiled. It's a neat tool if you have enough countrrs around.
Wow, so much awesome feedback. Thanks, ya'll! ISB, I came across your list and marvelled at a number of the pieces you brought up here too, but figured I'd try introducing it once I got the core operational.
The list is inspired by an Aurelia, the Warleader that's been a constant of my meta since 2014, trading off some of that list's explosive potential for a feeling of security as I turn my dudes sideways. I'd quite like to find the space for a Sunforger (plus probably some more instants to go into the package), but I'm not sure if the deck has the mana to support it. While the build is quite early days, it plays surprisingly consistently for its stage of development. Possibly because a nontrivial amount of it is aping a known functional deck, and a lot of the pieces do rather redundant things that are known to work. I'm aware it would respond quite well to bonus combats as well, but once again the issue of space rears its head.
1 Iroas, God of Victory
Rampano
1 Boros Locket
1 Boros Signet
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mind Stone
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
Bonus Dudes
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Captain's Claws
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Haazda Marshal
1 Hanweir Garrison
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Legion Warboss
1 Leonin Warleader
1 Loyal Apprentice
1 Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
1 Tilonalli's Summoner
Everything Is Swole Now
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Adriana, Captain of the Guard
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Benalish Marshal
1 Cathars' Crusade
1 Consul's Lieutenant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Hellrider
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Honored Crop-Captain
1 Márton Stromgald
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Pianna, Nomad Captain
1 Signal Pest
1 Soltari Champion
1 True Conviction
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mask of Memory
1 Skullclamp
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Wheel of Fortune
Kaboom
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Chaos Warp
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Fault Line
1 Magmaquake
1 Path to Exile
1 Starstorm
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tragic Arrogance
1 Wear // Tear
Other Stuff
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Boros Charm
1 Bishop of Rebirth
1 Etali, Primal Storm
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Odric, Master Tactician
1 Open the Armory
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sun Titan
Lands.dec
1 Arid Mesa
1 Boros Garrison
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Marsh Flats
7 Mountain
14 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Any assistance would be appreciated - am I missing something else obvious? Any easily discernible cuts? These are uncharted realms to me, and while I had a good local deck to approach this from I'd quite like to squeeze as much out of this as possible.
The Quest Begins!
1 Iroas, God of Victory
Rampano
1 Boros Locket
1 Boros Signet
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of the Animist
Bonus Dudes
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Captain's Claws
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Haazda Marshal
1 Hanweir Garrison
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Legion Warboss
1 Leonin Warleader
1 Loyal Apprentice
1 Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
1 Precinct Captain
1 Tilonalli's Summoner
Everything Is Swole Now
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Adriana, Captain of the Guard
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Benalish Marshal
1 Cathars' Crusade
1 Consul's Lieutenant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Hellrider
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Honored Crop-Captain
1 Inspiring Unicorn
1 Jazal Goldmane
1 Márton Stromgald
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Pianna, Nomad Captain
1 Signal Pest
1 Soltari Champion
1 Spear of Heliod
1 True Conviction
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Infiltration Lens
1 Skullclamp
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Wheel of Fortune
Kaboom
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Chaos Warp
1 Fault Line
1 Magmaquake
1 Path to Exile
1 Starstorm
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tragic Arrogance
Other Stuff
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Boros Charm
1 Bishop of Rebirth
1 Etali, Primal Storm
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Odric, Master Tactician
1 Open the Armory
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Sun Titan
Lands.dec
1 Arid Mesa
1 Boros Garrison
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
7 Mountain
14 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
05.04.2019 Changes
1 Infiltration Lens
1 Inspiring Unicorn
1 Jazal Goldmane
1 Precinct Captain
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Mask of Memory
1 Mind Stone
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Wear // Tear
I'm really out of my element here. Creatures is my least favourite cardtype - I tend to play as few as possible Therefore I would properly be confident enough to cut some of the creatures and would efinitely add the Sunforger. That card is super sweet! But yeah, you would want to add more stuf for it to fetch.
One thing stuck out though, Infiltration Lens is kinda of a nonbo if you depend on your dudes to evade blocks (well, most of the time). Maybe Mask of Memory would do a better job?
On things that go KABOOM - how about Arcbond? There's also Inferno though it's really high costed.
Looking forward playing you again on the 'trice
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Some findings from running the list:
Let's work on this then!
1 Infiltration Lens
1 Inspiring Unicorn
1 Jazal Goldmane
1 Precinct Captain
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Mask of Memory
1 Mind Stone
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Wear // Tear
Most of the cuts are pretty high cost for what they offer. Scourge of the Throne is extra combats, but by then you should have smashed face a bit and there's a nonzero chance you're the monarch. Plus the boy isn't hasty. Speaking of not being hasty, the other 4-drop plain pump bois offer that option (Hellrider, Ogre Battledriver, Hero of Oxid Ridge), so Inspiring Unicorn with its measly +1/+1 and summoning sickness is not the best. Jazal Goldmane costs an arm and a leg to cast and activate, so taking him out for now as well. Spear of Heliod isn't a dude, Precint Captain needs to clock someone to make the dudebro, Infiltration Lens is indeed conceptually worse than Mask of Memory, Stonehewer Giant is quite mana-rich and none of the current equipment breaks the bank. I realise some of these may be worth to run eventually, but for now I'm still trying to find basic footing and the optimal way forward.
Selfless Spirit performed well in my Mardu aggro heap as anti wipe tech that also turns sideways, so in he goes. Extra mana offered via Hanweir Battlements, Mind Stone and Wayfarer's Bauble (I realise the last of those is a bad idea in an aggro deck, but it'd be nice to have something that isn't a rock). Duergar Hedge-Mage and Wear // Tear help explode stuff. I conceptually acknowledge that it would probably make sense to off Etali, Primal Storm on similar high end trimming grounds, but the Etali was one of my "I want to play this" cards that motivated me to put together a red deck in the first place. As such, I'll keep him around a little longer, see if he sticks a bit better.
Edit: And yeah, I'm really excited for Bolas's Citadel aswell!
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Other ways to save your board: Scapegoat, you use lots of tokens so this will be easy and it's low to the ground to save you. Teferi's Protection if you got the money for it. Ghostway and Eerie Interlude can help saving your board.
You also need to cut down the board quickly: Throne of the God-Pharaoh would help with how much your board turns sideways. Oketra's Monument makes your White Creatures cheaper and spews out more bodies. They can also block due to Vigilance, so you can getting into trade wars and come ahead. I think this is better than Assemble the Legion, I've never made a deck that could work with Legion. Mirror Entity gives you something to do with all of the mana you have, helps you close out the game and dodges Exile Wraths when you pay 0 in response. Repercussion will make Blocks irrelevant, so this might be worth testing, but that might move you more towards a "Saboteur" Build. Boros Garrison is a low opportunity cost way to increase your damage output when you have spare mana in the late game.
It does sound like you don't want to use Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge but they are a very reliable way to kill the board with the amount of bodies your deck spews out.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Crescendo of war can swell your army a lot. keep in mind that only buffs your blockers and not everyone else's.
I have to second Oketra's monument. The cost reduction can translate in more threats, and its tokens add up.
Legion's initiative buffs some of your guys and can protect your creatures. Versatility can be very important.
A new flying proliferate-on-hit white guy has been spoiled. It's a neat tool if you have enough countrrs around.