"Mystery is beauty. Within the unknown we plumb revelation."
—Vannifar
Being a Birthing Pod enthusiast throughout my days playing Commander, in a variety of different shells and colors, of course I got excited about this legendary creature and instantly started brainstorming and brewing!
Some of my favorite things to do in Magic are tool-boxing and also exact sequencing for game winning combos. Hello Prime Speaker Vannifar, welcome.
This primer is an ever evolving source of ideas and knowledge for anybody looking to build around her.
As such it's not just focusing purely on a *deck*, but also on a variety of topics and card discussions around anything to do with interacting
with Prime Speaker Vannifar. This will be the only place you need to visit for all the information you want to build a Vannifar deck.
This way people are welcome to take away what they feel will better work for the way the want to play her.
What's in this Primer?
Because this is one of the most information rich guides for a commander on the internet, I've done a quick summary of the content to better prepare you, or direct you to what you might want from this primer.
This introduction section is giving you a quick overview of Prime Speaker Vannifar, including fundamental interactions, why you might want to play her, and commanders already that allow you to search your library.
Full breakdown of my deck list, complete with card choices and their interactions, with guides to playing through the game.
5.) Deck. My own unique take on her, using a lot of combo lines for automatic wins.
6.) Strategy. Detailed step-by-step processes of potential ways to sequence chaining through creatures for combos and value.
7.) Card Choices. Further description for reasons on particular cards chosen for deck and how they synergize.
8.) Change Log. All the changes to the deck list.
The second post (#2) in this thread has Resource guides that have discussions and breakdowns of all types of elements that you might include in your own build centered around Prime Speaker Vannifar. This area is unique to primers, I have gone the additional method of discussing various cards and strategies that are potentially relevant for her ability.
9.) Compendium. A comprehensive list of cards that can be potentially used with Prime Speaker Vannifar, categorized for convenience.
10.) Spotlight on Potential Cards. A more focused analysis on particular cards. I do weekly write ups on card(s), so this section is always being appended.
11.) Theorycrafting. General topics, rather than a particular card or set of cards.
The third post (#3) in this thread is dedicated to competitive commander, cEDH. I'm part of an online community using Discord where we discuss potential builds for Prime Speaker Vannifar to complete at a top-tier level. This section is a full break-down of current theories, complete with a deck tech around many of the ideas.
12.) cEDH. A review of where potential builds are being taken, to try and make her a top tier commander.
13.) Deck. A top-tier meta and approach to building a deck.
14.) Strategy. Detailed step-by-step processes of potential ways to sequence chaining through creatures for combos.
15.) Card Choices. Further description for reasons on particular cards chosen for deck and how they synergize.
16.) Change Log.
The very first element you should be looking at with a commander like this is how to get multiple uses out of her each turn. Any card that has "untap permanent/creature" is going to allow you to string multiple activation's in a single turn.
One way is to use a range of creatures that will allow you to reuse Prime Speaker Vannifar immediately after use, so that you can upgrade your creatures, to you finally get to some game winning higher-end creatures, plus just getting creatures into your graveyard or multiple creatures into play for further interactions.
You can setup so that you have multiple ways to keep upgrading your creature base, all the way from 0 CMC to 8 CMC in a single turn.
You can literally sequence a victory with only a few support cards or enough mana.
However it must be noted that at Five Drop, there are some stipulations.
There are a lot more ways to untap Vannifar but these represent the fairly unconditional ways of sequencing to move up through a creature base, and without needing haste.
There are lots of creatures that can potentially untap Prime Speaker Vannifar, but require tapping to activate, so require haste for sequencing.
There are some cards in Magic that will allow you to essentially go infinite with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
With Intruder Alarm or Thornbite Staff, each time you sacrifice a creature to search for another one, a trigger will allow you to untap Vannifar.
I've done a detailed discussion on both these card, for more details click here.
Illusionist's Bracers equipped to Prime Speaker Vannifar allows you to search for two creatures at the converted mana cost plus one, of the creature you sacrificed.
You could easily use one creature as an untapper, and the other creature for some sort of combo or value. Rings of Brighthearth works in the same manner as Illusionist's Bracers. I've done a detailed discussion on both these card, for more details click here.
Paradox Engine is not exactly infinite, but still allows for untapping with casting spells.
Mind Over Matter can be used to untap any number of permanents, including Prime Speaker Vannifar, so will always be able to do chain winning sequences with enough cards in hand to discard for the ability.
Arguably in the most powerful color combination in commander with Simic, the ability of Birthing Pod has been the source of many years of theory-crafting and deck making, even being banned in Modern.
With the same ability at your disposal in the commander zone, the possibilities are endless.
You might like Prime Speaker Vannifar if:
You like to have access to any of the creatures in your deck, and put them into play for "free".
You like combo decks or you like to tool-box for interaction.
You understand the power and versatility the Simic color combination gives you.
You might dislike Prime Speaker Vannifar if:
You don't enjoy searching your deck and shuffling.
You prefer more random elements to drawing cards in your 99.
Your meta specifically targets you, to shut down your commander at all costs.
Rather than listing good stuff commanders in Simic colors, commanders that have tap to search abilities are far more in the same play style.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard - Has a similar ability in that you are specifically needing to tap to put creatures into play from library. Prime Speaker Vannifar doesn't have the restriction of counters for converted-mana-cost, you can start from any cmc creature already in play. But Yisan doesn't need to sacrifice creatures, you can leave them in play, so in general can be more permanent tool-box creatures selected, as well as combo.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist - Unless you have ways of specifically putting creatures on top of your library, there is more of a random element to using Jalira. However she can put any converted-mana-cost into play potentially, so doesn't have the restrictions of Vannifar and Yisan, as long as it's not legendary.
Arcum Dagsson - Another commander close in play style, as you sacrifice creatures to put cards directly into play, in this instance artifacts. Same casting cost and activated ability doesn't require mana either. Prime Speaker Vannifar does put you into green as well, so you get a whole additional color worth of selection, and obviously creature selection is different to artifact searching.
Captain Sisay - Another Four Drop creature with a tap to search, but instead that card goes to your hand. Has a similar feel if looking to make a combo build in that you can set up wins with very few activation's. But in Selesnya colors, you'll be playing white instead of blue. White tends to run hate-bears and other stax elements, where blue can be used more for instant speed interaction.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary - Another Simic commander, that does allow you to search for creatures. However you still need to cast the creatures even if you do setup the means to draw them, so doesn't have the same inherit way getting creatures into play for "free".
"To survive exceptional times we must adapt by exceptional means."
—Vannifar
The main way of winning with the deck is to get Prime Speaker Vannifar into play and then use her ability to start chaining up and getting multiple creatures into play, using some very specific sequences of creatures.
I've listed them in detail below. They are complex to remember so half of the effort of winning is to know how you should sequence searches with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
In conclusion
You need 4 lands and specifically GGGU, so colorless artifact mana cannot help you. But this is a nice option as it just uses lands and creatures to win, with just the one spell Crop Rotation being cast.
*With infinite mana you can keep exiling the Body Double to copy any creature in your graveyard. You can also use Prime Speaker Vannifar to keep chaining as many times as you want, so you can win anyway you want to configure your deck.
Note that Vitalize could be Dramatic Reversal or any instant or sorcery that untaps creatures. But the more expensive the spell, the more sources of non-land mana you'll need.
If you literally only have one other creature in play, then you can look to do this exact sequence. It will require 1GGGGGU, but this can be easily mitigated..
Mnemonic Wall in hand: Cast Mnemonic Wall same turn. Mnemonic Wall in graveyard: Cannot do the combo., unless you use an untapper to untap Vannifar. Get Peregrine Drake instead.
*Note that Body Double is a key component to the Protean Hulk creatures, so you can't use it as a substitute at the stage.
I have a very detailed section dedicated to explaining different ways to win with sacrificing Protean Hulk, for more details click here.
In conclusion
You have plenty of alternative lines, up until you get to the Mnemonic Wall. Unfortunately if this is in graveyard then you can't go for this line.
Also casting the Mnemonic Wall during the combo could be hard. If you have two mana creatures in play, then you can gain an extra 2 mana at this point, meaning you could cast it with just 4 other mana in play for your turn, very doable.
This line is similar to the Into Protean Hulk/Vitalize for the beginning, but uses Woodland Bellower to branch off to get various creatures.
It does require the most mana available as well. So this option is most likely going to come down to if you have creatures in your hand or graveyard or exile, that hard hard to deploy for the other combo lines, so use this as a backup.
Also you might have drawn some creatures for thus line which are actually easy to deploy so may help to set you up.
The end result is that you want Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron in play to be able to generate infinite mana.
This method does assume that besides a mana creature (realistically) and that you also have 1U available to do the initial exiling of Woodland Bellower with the Deadeye Navigator.
At this stage you can get infinite mana using the exile ability of Deadeye Navigator on Palinchron.
You also get infinite Deadeye Navigator activation's on the Eternal Witness, so can get all your creatures back. You can easily cast all the creatures in your deck and have infinite 'enter the battlefield' triggers with them.
In conclusion
This line involves that most cards, but the main purpose of it, is that it uses cards already in the other combo lines, so it's just an alternative that you can use if the cards in your hand or graveyard might prevent you from doing the others easily. Nice to have choices. Chakram Retriever into Protean Hulk combo chain
There are essentially five different lines of creatures combinations that you can choose to go for when you start activating Prime Speaker Vannifar.
The line that you choose is going to come down to essentially what resources you have at the time or how you might want to mitigate opponents disruption.
Use the check list of requirements below to help you better choose a sequence of creatures that you might want to use.
Zero or One or Two Drop to chain into Trophy Mage.
Mana needed 4.
At least 3 lands in play.
Minamo, School at Water's Edge/Wirewood Lodge/Crop Rotation combo chain Requirements
Zero or One or Two Drop creature to chain into Spellseeker.
Mana needed GGGU.
At least 4 lands in play.
Vitalize into Protean Hulk combo chain Requirements
Zero or One or Two Drop creature to chain into Spellseeker.
Mana creature.
Vitalize into Woodland Bellower/Deadeye Navigator/Palinchron combo chain Requirements
Zero or One or Two Drop creature to chain into Spellseeker.
Mana creature.
Mana needed 1U.
At least 3 lands in play.
Chakram Retriever into Protean Hulk combo chain Requirements
Zero, One, Two or Three Drop creature to chain into Chakram Retriever.
Cast a spell.
Zero, One, Two Drop creature to chain into Spellseeker.
As you can see if you have a mana creature in play, then the most mana efficient method is Vitalize into Protean Hulk combo chain. But the downside is that you then need an additional Zero, One or Two Drop creature to sacrifice, if needing to keep that mana creature in play.
It also has the most creatures involved, so there is a higher chance of having some of the creatures in your hand that would make it harder to sequence potentially.
Not to panic if we only have the one creature to sacrifice, you can go for the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain or Minamo, School at Water's Edge/Wirewood Lodge/Crop Rotation combo chain.
They requires having 4 mana spare. So straight away you're going to leave yourself with less chance of having mana up for a counterspells.
Using the Thousand-Year Elixir also exposes you to artifact removal, so in this respect it can be less appealing.
The Vitalize into Woodland Bellower/Deadeye Navigator/Palinchron combo chain is the most mana intensive of the sequencing lines, but is essentially a backup to the others, if you have particular cards in hand that would be part of the other chains, or in graveyard, etc.
I'm just highlighting the fact your preferred method is really to do the Vitalize into Protean Hulk combo chain, but you need that mana creature AND an extra creature at One, Two Drop to sacrifice.
As you can see the Zero, One and Two Drop creatures are quite precious to your game plan.
There are 37 creatures in the deck. Captain Sisay Paradox Stax and Yisan, the Wanderer Bard tend to run around 32 creatures, which is the higher end for competitive games.
However I cannot stress the importance of having a high threshold of creatures that can actually be sacrificed to Prime Speaker Vannifar to start game winning chains.
In this respect, that number of potential creatures is much lower. There are 18* creatures that are converted mana cost two or less, and really these are the only creatures that you'll be looking to start sacrificing to start chaining with Prime Speaker Vannifar, at least in an early game.
*There are three lands Dryad Arbor, Treetop Village, Lumbering Falls and Green Sun's Zenith as well. I've discounted Gilded Drake.
It must be noted that your Three Drop and up creatures cannot be used to start chaining up for a combo win if wanting to do it all in one turn. If you look at the sequencing there are some specific creatures in Trophy Mage or Spellseeker that you're looking to use their abilities to search to get particular cards for the combos.
This may seem trivial, but it's actually one of the most important aspects to having a consistent means of winning as quickly as possible.
What if I have a Three Drop (or higher) in play instead?
Maybe you've cast one of these Bounding Krasis, Eternal Witness, Trinket Mage, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds.
We can chain all the way up to a Seven Drop creature, using Chakram Retriever as a way to untap hopefully at the Five Drop.
But once you get your Seven Drop creature into play, in this decks case either Protean Hulk or Palinchron then there is no way to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
This is different to our combo lines that work in a way to untap her, so you can carry on chaining.
Unless you already have a way to untap her, you'll need to pass the turn before you can keep comboing.
I'll reiterate again the importance of having a creature that can provide mana at the time you want to combo. Because Dryad Arbor will be able to pay for the Vitalize each time, you should really make this a high-priority card for you. You have a number of cards that can search for it in; Misty Rainforest, Verdant Catacombs, Windswept Heath, Wooded Foothills, Wood Elves, Green Sun's Zenith, Crop Rotation.
In this regard, unless you have all the setup already, try to avoid using these lands to mana fix you for blue, being tempting getting Tropical Island or Breeding Pool with them.
Of course it all depends on how things line up with everything else, but it's just something to be mindful of during games.
Treetop Village is another potential mana creature. So if you have the 1G to activate it, once you start using the Vitalize it'll pay for everything, so this is another amazing land in this deck. Lumbering Falls is the same but more expensive at 2UG. But all you need for the combos to work is to have them activated and untapped when you begin. So it's very conceivable that the turn after you cast Prime Speaker Vannifar that you have the 5 mana for activating Lumbering Falls to work.
I should point out that if you have the luxury of being able to have more than one mana creature at the time of using the Vitalize combo, then you'll actually start gaining mana.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
You can use Reality Shift or Beast Within to give you a token creature. You could Reality Shift one of your Three Drops or more to get a Zero Drop to start your chain. You could even Beast Within a land to start you off.
When sacrificing the Protean Hulk you have a multitude of creature that you can get depending on the situation.
I have a very detailed section dedicated to explaining different ways to win with sacrificing Protean Hulk, for more details click here.
The package of creatures that I chose in the end was what I feel has the trade off between not getting Turn 1 or Turn 2 wins, instead getting individually better cards and smaller amount of overall cards dedicated.
How do you "kill" your opponents?
Alright we have successfully chained our combos together and now we have infinite mana and unlimited number of creature searches with Prime Speaker Vannifar, what do we do now?
Our combo chains end up with either Deadeye Navigator and/or Tidespout Tyrant in play. What both of these do with infinite mana is allow you get infinite ETB off your creatures. So with this in mind you can do the following..
If you look at our combo lines, they all involve searching for Spellseeker at some stage with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Only the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain doesn't use Spellseeker, but the Body Double can become a copy of a Two Drop creature in your graveyard once you've got infinite mana, and then you can use Prime Speaker Vannifar to trade it up to Spellseeker.
The main way of winning once you have infinite's is to use Reality Shift . We will be looking to search for Reality Shift with Spellseeker.
Then your opponents need at least one creature in play to target with it [1]. The manifest ability will create another creature, and put a card from opponents library into play.
With infinite ETB of Eternal Witness/Archaeomancer/Mnemonic Wall/Greenwarden of Murasa, we will keep getting back the Reality Shift to recast it again on the newely created manifested creature, which will end up exiling all the cards from your opponents libraries. Then on their draw steps they will lose the game.
[1] Note that you can use Forbidden Orchard to give your opponents a creature if they happen to not have one in play or are some sort of creatureless deck. Because of Peregrine Drake or Palinchron in the deck, you'll be able to untap the Forbidden Orchard to give all your opponents a creature if need be.
You will have infinite recursion of counterspells as well to stop what opponents could possibly do.
Alternatively you can destroy all your opponents permanents if you want by Beast Within all their cards in play, even lands. Then you can Cyclonic Rift all the Beast tokens.
-OR-
With infinite mana you can keep returning and casting Palinchron with Tidespout Tyrant in play to return all your opponents permanents.
-OR-
For style points you can even create infinite 2/2 blue Bird creature tokens, by keep on countering spells you cast with Swan Song.
As you can see once you have your combo chains successfully sequenced, there are a number of ways you can win.
One of the hardest aspects of playing a deck like this, is figuring out how you can sequence your turns, when you have particular cards that you don't have access to put into play with Prime Speaker Vannifar because they might be in your hand, graveyard or even exiled.
Combo creatures are in your hand
Obviously the casting cost of the particular creature you are looking to cast is a factor.
If you have a Six Drop creature like Deadeye Navigator, Woodland Bellower, Greenwarden of Murasa in your hand it's going to take a while to get to the mana to cast it from your hand.
Realistically too slow to probably win you the game in a timely manner.
There are some cards in Brainstorm and Scroll Rack that can help you out with this, but that's only two cards in the deck.
There are also some cards that you might not be able put into play before hand either, because they have triggers essential to moving the sequence forward in an exact manner.
So in this way you might also have to factor in more mana for a combo line, because you're going to have to cast that creature also during the turn.
One of the biggest factors of choosing a line to try and win with, is going to come down to if you have as few as possible creatures in your hand or graveyard that you'd use for it.
This can end up being awkward if you try and sculpt your turns around that sequence and then you end up drawing a key card that is hard to deploy, before you enact it.
If you have one of these in play, and you have the luxury for example of not having to sacrifice Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger, Kiora's Follower, Fatestitcher, then you can use these to help out with a particular step along the sequences.
In the following sections I will highlight steps where you can use these untappers as alternatives, so this can make sticking points easier to navigate around.
But it must be noted that you always have to sequence into converted mana costs of creatures, so often you'll need to be getting particular creatures anyway.
They often have a purpose further along the sequence as well, so the options to untap at particular points is limited by these other stipulations.
But infinite mana doesn't do anything on it's own without support cards.
If you can get Deadeye Navigator with infinite mana, that means that you can infinitely exile any number of creatures you have access to. Lets look at all the cards that have enter the battlefield triggers;
Some of the cards are conditional on what is available to you at the time.
But you're aiming for a result that you have infinite mana and some other creature(s) that will allow you to win.
The combo chains are super complicated, so I feel it's best to make clear that if you have Peregrine Drake/Palinchron in your hand, and are able to cast them, then you can just look to sequence into Deadeye Navigator and not have to worry about convoluted sequences so much.
Has Prime Speaker Vannifar been shut out of the game?
If you read the section on Birthing Pod in the 'Spotlight on Potential Cards' section, which you can click here for more details, then we do have backup plans for making the deck do similar plays as Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Birthing Pod
You can use Birthing Pod in conjunction with Dramatic Reversal, some non-land mana sources, and then sequencing into graveyard retrieval creatures.
Birthing Pod can also be used in combination with graveyard retrieval creatures to keep casting Time Warp, for a similar way to chain through creatures, albeit with entire extra turns to use!
Similar to Eldritch Evolution, but with some important differences. You have to select a creature exactly 1 converted mana cost more, where Eldritch Evolution you can go for converted mana costs at 2 higher or same or lesser. Not a huge deal, often you'd be looking to always get to the maximum converted mana cost out of the cards, but there might be situations where you want to convert a creature into removal that would require you to get a lower or same casting cost creature for example.
But the main difference from Eldritch Evolution, is that Neoformdoesn't get exiled. This card is perfect for the deck as it's another backup way to win without Prime Speaker Vannifar in play.
In conclusion
You have to cast Neoform five times and cast Archaeomancer, so realistically going to need to be spread out over probably a couple of turns. But in games where Vannifar has been shut out, it's a very good game plan.
This deck always has some game plan to aim for no matter what has been going on in a game and what cards have been removed/denied/etc.
Opening hands and Mulligans
One of the biggest factors when playing this deck, is actually not wanting key combo creatures in your hand unless they are easy to cast.
Now that's a lot of cards, and you are bound to draw at least a couple during the course of the early game.
But as I've already laid out that you can go for five different combo lines and it's all going to come down to what you might have drawn during the game already.
Plus it's not as clear cut as that, as you have alternative means to help you out with cards in hand, like Elvish Piper.
If you have Brainstorm or Scroll Rack in your opening hand, then you are really free to keep hands with these combo creatures. Be patient with the Brainstorm, only use it just before you start your Prime Speaker Vannifar combos, so that you don't draw another combo creature unnecessarily.
It might be that you even have a combo card like Vitalize in your hand already, so then you can use Spellseeker instead to get Brainstorm to help with awkward draws.
This deck does require you to think on your toes a reasonable amount, it's not always so laid out for a victory.
Early Game
The quicker you can play out Prime Speaker Vannifar and look to combo the more likely that you won't draw key combo creatures that you'd prefer not to cast.
There is a lot of mana acceleration in the deck, so it's more likely that you'll be able to cast Prime Speaker Vannifar on Turn 2 or Turn 3, rather than Turn 4 for example.
Now if you have the means to protect Prime Speaker Vannifar, then you might consider delaying a turn so that you have the mana for both of them, although don't wait a couple of turns further as you could just afford to pay commander tax to try it again.
There is an element of the first person to try and combo in multiplayer is often the first to get stopped, so if your meta is heavy with disruption then you might want to wait for your opportunity with more patience.
But I will stress that it's not the sort of deck that you are looking to stretch the game out long, it's better to put your opponents to the test before they can enact their own strategies.
Mid Game
Usually it goes to the mid game if your opponents have prevented you from using Prime Speaker Vannifar.
This might be from removal on her, or potential a hate card in play.
The other way is that you've been unlucky with drawing too many of the combo pieces, so are waiting to get enough mana to cast some out, or waiting for cards like Brainstorm or Scroll Rack to help you out with that.
If she has been sent to the command zone, then the deck does have a lot of mana accelerators to help pay for commander tax. So you should have the ability to cast her out multiple times during the game.
Hate cards a little trickier, you have to wait until you draw removal, and there isn't much additional draw in the deck.
If this happens then you'll probably need to turn your disruption on opponents to stop them from winning.
There are a number of counterspells for this, so using them wisely is important. Don't use them unless you are stopping game winning plays, as you really want to save them for protecting your own game plan hopefully.
Late Game
If the game has gotten to the later stages, then we will assume that opponents have prevented you from using Prime Speaker Vannifar.
However there are a lot of ways to get infinite's in the deck, so you have a lot of backup plans. The infinite's even play out different ways, so hate cards that might be prevent one method, probably can be mitigated with other sets of card interactions.
I've detailed all the infinite's and alternatives, and honestly it's really fun to pull out wins without the need for Prime Speaker Vannifar, it shows off the robustness of having additional methods to achieve similar things.
Please review the section "Know your alternatives" and "Has Prime Speaker Vannifar been shut out of the game?" for late game strategies.
Prevent enter the battlefield triggers
Cards that prevent triggers happening on 'entering the battlefield' will also stop our combo lines. Again these are in form of artifacts or White creatures. Hushwing Gryff, Torpor Orb, Tocatli Honor Guard, Humility
If we were to only have creatures as our own way of dealing with hate cards, hoping to use Prime Speaker Vannifar to tutor for them, then we will get completely shut off by some of the above.
For example if you were hoping to use Reclamation Sage as your form of artifact and enchantment removal, then Torpor Orb would shut you off.
The same with the idea of just using creatures to deal with creatures. For example just using Gilded Drake. In this scenario Hushwing Gryff would completely shut that off.
Mass land destruction
The only reason that mass land destruction could be a pain for the deck, is that often you're wanting 3 lands in play for the Deadeye Navigator + Peregrine Drake/Palinchron combo.
You have the Protean Hulk line, so you always have other options.
Otherwise restricting our mana won't be too detrimental, because of your mana creatures, and also not needing to cast many spells. Also your combos will be happening faster on average, than you'd see mass land destruction. Building back up to 3 lands, is not that hard to do either, when everybody has been slowed down. Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Ruination.
The Good
Stax
Stax isn't something that we need to worry about too much, in fact as I've already made clear you can easily play elements yourself.
It's not like you're completely impervious to it, but it certainly doesn't effect you in the way it does other decks.
Stax elements are popular as well to try and slow opponents down, so in this regard a lot resources from opponents could be committed to this, which you can mitigate with Prime Speaker Vannifar pseudo ability of casting cards without needing any mana. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amethyst, Trinisphere, Winter Orb.
Artifact Hate
Artifact hate can hurt the Thousand-Year Elixir combo line, but this can be mitigated with using the Vitalize line instead, which doesn't use anything but creatures.
Having redundancy with different lines of play make the deck more powerful against hate cards. Stony Silence, Null Rod.
Prevent playing multiple cards per turn
Spells that are designed to prevent multiple cards being played or drawn each turn, should not effect a Prime Speaker Vannifar build that much.
You will not be able to do the Vitalize combo lines, but you can go with Thousand-Year Elixir line instead. Nice to have choices.
The thing is that you still get to play out all your creatures with infinite mana still, and you literally don't need to cast a card to do it. Ethersworn Canonist, Eidolon of Rhetoric
Comprehensive list of cards in the deck, and further interactions that I might not have detailed in the strategy section.-----------------------------------------
Card-by-card analysis
Creature untappers Quirion Ranger - This is our only One Drop creature that allows untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar when you want to trade up creatures. Note that the only Zero Drop creatures in the decks are lands, so it's not often that you'll be sequencing into this creature.
Scryb Ranger - This is our only Two Drop creature that allows untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar when you want to trade up creatures and don't have haste enablers.
With Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger abilities to return a Forest to untap a creature, you can use them with mana creatures to generate more mana. Even potentially when you don't have a land drop in hand for the turn, returning the Forest will help with making that land drop for additional mana.
I explain the importance of having potential additional untappers for Prime Speaker Vannifar in the strategy section, which you can click here for details.
Kiora's Follower - Notably not used for any of the combo chains as you need a haste enabler. But with haste you can look to use this as a means to trade up instead of Scryb Ranger.
Great as a mana creature as well as it can just untap a land.
Breaching Hippocamp - This is our only Four Drop creature that allows untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar when you want to trade up creatures and don't have haste enablers.
Fatestitcher - A key combo card for our Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
But it's also a way to get multiple creatures into play for any type of trading up.
Chakram Retriever - I have done a spotlight section focusing on this card, which you can click here for the detailed analysis.
Vitalize - The neat thing about this card is that if you have multiple mana producing creatures in play and start to combo, then you can actually gain mana. This is why this is my favorite go to combo chains with the Vitalize into Protean Hulk combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It's also key card in the Vitalize into Woodland Bellower/Deadeye Navigator/Palinchron combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Thousand-Year Elixir - Very much a pseudo haste enabler for just activated abilities, which is really the only important element, as we are not looking to have haste creatures for attacking.
Obviously a key card for the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
But it can also be used to untap Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Priest of Titania or even Voyaging Satyr/Kiora's Follower if wanting to untap a land.
Further combo or toolbox creatures Spellseeker - Literally one of the most important creatures in the deck, this is used to get Vitalize, Dramatic Reversal or Crop Rotation for particular combo chains.
If you already have these spells in your hand, then you can always look to get some disruption instead in the form of a counter spell or permanent removal.
Trophy Mage - The key card to the..well you guessed it Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
There isn't actually another three mana cost artifact in the deck, so there is some argument to having something else in there in times you want to cast/chain for some other value.
Eternal Witness - A key card that can be chained into with Prime Speaker Vannifar if needing to get back other combo cards especially. Opponents can only tend to slow you down a turn if they have removal or counterspell something that is not Vannifar, as you can use Vannifar to get Eternal Witness to return that card back straight away. A very potent element to being able to tool-box in the deck.
Elvish Piper - Is mainly used as a backup plan if you have certain higher casting creatures in your hand, that you might have been looking to search with Prime Speaker Vannifar in the first place.
If you have 7 lands in play you can use Elvish Piper to put Palinchron into play. You can float 6 mana first, so that you'll have 12 mana all up. You can return Palinchron for 2UU, leaving 8 mana. Cast Palinchron so that you get the untap trigger Chakram Retriever to untap Elvish Piper, and now you'll have one left over floating mana. You can keep looping getting an additional mana each time for infinite mana.
Archaeomancer - A key combo card for the Minamo, School at Water's Edge/Wirewood Lodge/Crop Rotation combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It's actually a super-star when it comes to the backup plans of using alternative methods of winning, as already discussed in the strategy section.
You can also use it to get back other cards like disruption when you've already got other setups, although hard casting it for 2UU is not the normal plan. It might be that you have an additional on-board untapper, so you can use Archaeomancer as part of your sequencing to get back some disruption. Maybe you've used an instant previously to remove a card with Nature's Claim for example. You can then get back the Nature's Claim to remove a card that might be preventing you from comboing further.
Mnemonic Wall - Is the Five Drop equivalent of Archaeomancer for the purposes of combos, so please reference that for it's general interactions and inclusion. Please note that you could easily play Salvager of Secrets or Scrivener instead, I've just chosen the Wall for it toughness, so less prone to damage killing it.
Body Double - A key card in Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Also a key card in the Vitalize into Woodland Bellower/Deadeye Navigator/Palinchron combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It's such a unique ability in general, but especially in blue color pie. It does become reasonable awkward if you have it in your hand at the time you want to combo with certain lines, and shuts down lines completely if it's gone to your graveyard or exile. But luckily we have plenty of other ways to win.
Peregrine Drake - Part of our Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Note that with Gaea's Cradle you can potentially gain mana with additional creatures in play.
Deadeye Navigator - Part of the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It is also used in the Vitalize into Woodland Bellower/Deadeye Navigator/Palinchron combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Woodland Bellower - One of the few ways to get multiple creatures into play off a single creature. Perfect for allowing to chain up further as you can select a number of green creatures that allow you to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar. Normally it will be Bounding Krasis, but you could also use Quirion Ranger or Scryb Ranger of you wanted a permanent way of untapping creatures.
It is a key combo card used in the Vitalize into Woodland Bellower/Deadeye Navigator/Palinchron combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Greenwarden of Murasa - The ability to get back two cards from your graveyard is invaluable with Prime Speaker Vannifar build.
It is a key combo card for the Vitalize into Protean Hulk combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It's also used as a key creature in alternative ways of winning, that are discussed in the strategy section.
Protean Hulk - Another creature used to get multiple creatures into play. I have a very detailed break down of this creature for many different potential Prime Speaker Vannifar builds, which you can click here for details.
Palinchron - Obviously a key card of the Vitalize into Woodland Bellower/Deadeye Navigator/Palinchron combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It's also part of the Minamo, School at Water's Edge/Wirewood Lodge/Crop Rotation combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
You can potentially get infinite mana with Gaea's Cradle if you can generate enough to return it to hand for 2UU and recast it with mana left over.
It must be noted that you could add Phantasmal Image to the deck as another source of infinite mana.
Tidespout Tyrant - A way of getting infinite mana as discussed in the strategy section.
Can also be used to remove opponents permanents in a pinch, maybe some hoser card is in play, so just casting any spell can do this.
Once you have infinite mana and potentially have access to Palinchron, then you can literally bounce all your opponents permanents, by casting and returning the Palinchron.
Alternative combos Isochron Scepter - Is mainly in the deck for Dramatic Reversal combo where you can look to use non-land mana sources like artifact mana or creatures that tap for mana, to enable getting infinite mana. If you can produce more than 2 for the activation of the Isochron Scepter itself, then you'll produce additional mana. It works particularly well with Prime Speaker Vannifar herself as you can untap her as well, enabling you to trade up creature, without having to worry about the creature themselves untapping her.
You can use Isochron Scepter with any of the disruption spells that cost two or less, as a permanent way to counter/remove spells for soft locks.
Dramatic Reversal - As mentioned above, combos with Isochron Scepter for potential infinite mana.
It can be used instead of Vitalize in the Vitalize into Protean Hulk combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It is a key card for some of the alternatives ways to win, if you check out the "Has Prime Speaker Vannifar been shut out of the game?" in the strategy section.
Birthing Pod - I have done a spotlight card focus on this card, which you can click here for the detailed break down of interactions.
The deck is designed to use Birthing Pod as a pseudo Prime Speaker Vannifar given certain cards, if she has been hated out of the game.
Neoform - I have done a spotlight card focus on this card, which you can click here for the detailed break down of interactions.
The deck is designed to use Neoform as a pseudo Prime Speaker Vannifar given certain cards, if she has been hated out of the game.
Mana acceleration Artifact Mana: Chrome Mox, Mox Amber, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault.
The artifact mana is very precise for combos with Tidespout Tyrant and also just general great at getting extra mana at all stages of the game. The noticeable emission of Mox Diamond is simply because the deck has a low land count, and having 3 lands in play for some of the combos means that missing a land drop isn't the best.
Disruptive/protection creatures Sylvan Safekeeper - An excellent creature to protect your combos. Sacrificing a land isn't the greatest, but it's still better than perhaps spending an additional turn and waiting for an extra 2 for the commander tax for Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Spellskite - Another protective creature that can even defend your Thousand-Year Elixir if removal is sent at it. Two Drop creatures are perfect for starting combo chains as well.
Gilded Drake - A catch all for stopping opponents commander or other problematic creatures, and even an answer for opponents stealing Prime Speaker Vannifar, which makes playing otherwise very difficult.
Putting cards back in library Brainstorm - Perfect for putting key combo creature cards you have in your hand back into your library for searching with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Scroll Rack - Another incredible way to put combo creature cards you have in your hand back into your library for searching with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
There are a significant number of ways of shuffling your library so both Brainstorm and Scroll Rack are great ways of potentially sculpting your hand as well. Prime Speaker Vannifar herself shuffles your library and you have lots of different tutors, even fetch lands for shuffling.
Haste Concordant Crossroads - With your mana creatures you can really look to get an explosive start, and with Prime Speaker Vannifar being such a fast to win deck, giving your opponents the ability to have haste as well, honestly isn't much of a downside, as you'll only give them a small window of opportunity to interact.
Swiftfoot Boots - The reason that Lighting Greaves is not used in the deck, is specifically because of the ETB effects of Bounding Krasis and Breaching Hippocamp. Because you need to be able to target Prime Speaker Vannifar when they come into play, shroud causes problems, where as hexproof is fine. It does cost one more to equip so there is a downside unfortunately.
Survival of the Fittest - Is another card that you can use to get combo creatures into your graveyard, to potentially make combo lines more easy.
For example you can search and discard Fatestitcher to give yourself an untapper and a sacrifice body. The Fatestitcher can become a mana creature for the purposes of Vitalize combos if required.
You can discard your higher converted mana creatures that you may have drawn through the game like Deadeye Navigator, Woodland Bellower, Greenwarden of Murasa, which you really don't want to have to cast them as they are just too expensive to deploy in a timely manner. Survival of the Fittest also gives you access to more mana creatures, so you are happy to discard a Three Drop or more, to get say a One or Two Drop mana creature for the purposes of setting up.
Crop Rotation - A key card in the Minamo, School at Water's Edge/Wirewood Lodge/Crop Rotation combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Also can be used to search for Gaea's Cradle if you want a sudden explosion in potential mana given a number of creatures in play.
Can even be used to get a creature land, if needing the mana creature for the Vitalize combos, with Dryad Arbor, Treetop Village, Lumbering Falls.
Draw Gitaxian Probe - It's mainly in the deck for the Chakram Retriever combo chain, which you can click here for the exact sequencing.
Sylvan Library - Perennial all star. You can even make sure you don't draw your creature combo cards, putting them back on top of library.
An element you might have looked at is where is all the draw?
I can't stress how much this deck is just about resolving Prime Speaker Vannifar and maybe a few creatures for chaining and mana support.
Otherwise you'd be happy not to draw a single card the whole game, as you actually want your creature base in your library at all times.
So the only "draw" card in the deck is Sylvan Library and a few cantrips, and this as much about making sure you don't draw particular cards.
So cards like Mystic Remora, Time Twister, Windfall are not really this decks forte.
It does mean that you have less control of the speed of the deck, especially when it comes to drawing into fast artifact mana. Dumping your hand and refilling is a big element of cEDH. But actually spells in hand and maintaining your resources in hand is not as important as most decks.
It's nice to have a super broken commander that can give you access to your whole deck, without needing to draw or cast them!!
The other nice thing about the deck is that because of the access to your graveyard with Eternal Witness and Greenwarden of Murasa, and also instant and sorcery with Archaeomancer and Mnemonic Wall, you're more resilient to draw 7 cards like Windfall and Wheel of Fortune.
Any cards that you might discard that were part of a combo line you were looking to take could potentially be replaced by these creatures instead.
Other draw 7 cards like Timetwister or Time Spiral shuffle cards back in so in theory you'll have your creature suite back in your library, where it's best.
There is an argument for Timetwister in the deck, for the reason of giving you another outlet to shuffle cards from your hand back into your library, but at the same time it's just not as important to get a threshold of cards in your hand, especially at the expense of giving all your opponents cards as well.
What's not in the deck? Further redundancy
Because there are 5 different potential lines of combo winning, in the end having even further redundancy came at the cost of speed and disruption.
For this reason I've cut the Thornbite Staff and Intruder Alarm...alarming as that may be! Ba Dum Tsh. So effectively that still gives me 5 different ways of sequencing a win (with alternatives within some of them as well).
The equip cost of Thornbite Staff is the biggest downside of that card. However it does deal a point of damage, so can potentially kill Aven Mindcensor, Hushwing Gryff, Phyrexian Revoker!!
The other downside to Thornbite Staff is that Null Rod and Stony Silence would prevent you from equipping as well, and the rest of the deck is pretty resilient to those cards.
The best way to think of the cards Intruder Alarm and Thornbite Staff is that they are just backup cards for decks that look to combo without them.
I've done a detailed discussion on both these card, and explain the theory behind them for deck builds. For more details click here.
01-02-2019
Just to give an overview of this primer to date, Prime Speaker Vannifar was spoiled on Jan 4 2019, and I started this primer on Jan 5, the day after, so much has changed since my first thread, as I've learned and theorycrafted since then.
My initial deck list had the land ramp combo line included as well. But I moved away from a more casual theme, to being a solid go for the win the same turn you can activate her.
This section has a very comprehensive list of cards that can be potentially used within a Prime Speaker Vannifar framework of your choosing.
You might be quite happy just to get one or two activation's out of her for your turns, rather than always going for a one turn combo win. Focused on value or potential answers to what opponents are doing. This is much more of a tool-box style where you search for creatures that are much more suited to the board state or opponents deck archetypes.
What I've done is break down cards into particular groups. On the whole I focus mainly on creatures, as the point of Prime Speaker Vannifar is that she can get you to those creatures. But there are non-creature elements when appropriate to discuss.
My personal suite of untappers includes ones that mostly have once off effects that trigger on entering the battlefield. However there are a range of creatures, artifacts and enchantments that can untap Vannifar. Many of these cards are much more suited to get incremental value from Vannifar and your creature base each turn.
You'll notice just how many options you have in Simic for untapping creatures. You have no shortage of options. It's just a case of how many and of what variety?
A pivotal question you should be asking yourself if you want to build a deck that isn't so reliant on her being in play and active, is "what do these untapper cards do for you as well?".
As a general rule of thumb, those that can give you multiple uses a turn tend to be more powerful. But they also might be harder to activate or trigger.
These type of cards require investing mana, but can be used to untap Vannifar multiple times in a turn. Most of them however are non-creatures, which means that you can't search for them with Prime Speaker Vannifar ability.
Tap to activate cards can usually only naturally be used once each turn, and if they are a creature will have summoning sickness as well, so won't be able to be used for a full turn. However a lot of these are creatures so can be searched with Prime Speaker Vannifar ability.
This then leads me into the next section, and that's about how to go about giving your creatures haste.
If you have a card that gives your creatures haste, then you'll be able to do a few additional sequences to help you out.
Obviously getting Prime Speaker Vannifar with haste means you can look to get value immediately or even potentially win on the spot.
If you have the ability to give your creatures haste, then the tap ability creatures become much better. However Simic is not know for it's ability to give creatures haste. There are not a lot of ways to do this.
But I'll list them, as it could be a very important plan for your build.
So one thing you should always be keeping in mind is that the heart of Prime Speaker Vannifar is that she is a creature tutor, so you are really looking at creatures as much as possible for giving you particular abilities/advantages.
The only creatures that can grant haste in Simic are Surrak, the Hunt Caller and Vitaspore Thallid. Both of them have stipulations.
Now that is not to say that you can't build around them in some way, and I certainly have thought about these cards a reasonable amount to try and potentially leverage them.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller requires having creatures you control have total power 8 or greater, and can only give one creature haste at the beginning of combat on your turn.
If you can set him up with say Patron of the Orochi, then you can untap potentially other creatures in Kiora's Follower and Seeker of Skybreak.
Vitaspore Thallid requires that you sacrifice a Saporling. Although there are Saporling tribal decks, normally you'd find them in Golgari color.
One little trick you can do is use Tukatongue Thallid to sacrifice with Prime Speaker Vannifar to get Vitaspore Thallid. This way you'll have a Saporling to sacrifice to give a creature haste for a turn.
Well now you have all these lovely ways of untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar but what are you looking to do with all of them?
Now what's important to really know is that if you're sacrificing creatures to go up the chain, then when it's time to end your turn, you still only have that one creature in play.
That might seem obvious, but it's really a case of how much value did you get along the way?
If you're not looking to simply combo off for a one turn win, then there are going to be elements where you either want to give yourself advantages in maybe the form of additional mana or card advantage. You might also choose things that disrupt your opponents to make the game harder for them.
The reason that cards that allow you to play lands off top of library are good in a Prime Speaker Vannifar build is that having the ability to shuffle your library each time you use her, means that you get another chance of having lands on top (or not lands if wanting that as well).
Playing extra lands can help with 'landfall' triggers and I was pretty close to playing Azusa, Lost but Seeking in my deck because she allows you to potentially put extra lands into play off cards like Realm Seekers.
In builds that have lots of draw elements, being able to play additional lands is helpful.
Mana So are lands the only way to get more mana?
There are a myriad of other ways to get additional mana in Simic. But I'm just going to focus on creatures, as this is the bread and butter of Prime Speaker Vannifar ability to get you to those.
Any creature that can tap for mana is going to help you, especially if you have other cards that can untap multiple creatures. Paradox Engine and Intruder Alarm being the premium examples of this.
I personally play a lot of one drop creatures that provide mana, as they are critical to making it easy to combo, as well as just good to speed up the deck, and be more resilient against Stax and mass land destruction.
A non-creature mana element that has a lot of potential is Earthcraft. Because you are chaining through creatures, each time you use Prime Speaker Vannifar you'll get to make a mana. This can certainly help to setup combos and just general game play. Cryptolith Rite and Song of Freyalise are similar but require you have haste in order to benefit from them if looking to use them the same turn as you're chain through creatures, so not nearly as good.
Draw
Now one element that you have to think about with Prime Speaker Vannifar is that any cards that you draw into your hand, are not going to be available for you to search with Prime Speaker Vannifar. So in this respect it's a bit of a double-edged sword.
But it's never a terrible thing to draw cards, especially if you have the deck build to support it.
Once again it's important to identify creatures that can get you card draw, rather than other card types due to..you guess it Prime Speaker Vannifar ability.
There are other cards that require tapping for activation, so you need them to stick around for an entire turn, or have haste; Jace's Archivist, Magus of the Jar.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur certainly represents a creature you'd be happy to chain into and then pass the turn!
I have some interesting ones that put cards back into library from your hand. The drakes can be a bit random, but it does give you options if you have cards in your hand that you would prefer to search up with Prime Speaker Vannifar. Riverwise Augur, Whirlpool Drake, Whirlpool Rider.
Tap to activate card advantage
Now I asked the question earlier, "what do these untapper cards do for you as well?". In the absence of Prime Speaker Vannifar, you might be able to untap lots of mana creatures, but then what do you do with the mana?
Because of the nature of wanting to search your library to put creatures directly into play, actually having the creature cards in your hand is a detriment. So really this deck doesn't want to draw cards at all past the point of putting some lands into play, and have a mana creature or two.
Wait. Are we not already searching our library a millions times? Well yes, but hey you can layer more to go with that if you really want to. I mean opponents have already resigned themselves to talking about the weather while you spend your time riffling and shuffling your deck.
There is a suite of creatures..that well search for other stuff. I've already mentioned all the land centered ones but there are others.
I've added a section Creature combinations, which has a comprehensive list of potential infinite or strong synergy combinations in Simic. You will see that I've listed creatures that can search for various cards needed for the combos.
The following list of creatures features heavily in that section as well.
Noble Benefactor can get you any card in your deck. A very dangerous card to use, but it might be something you can look to use on a turn you're looking to win and maybe sitting behind a Dosan the Falling Leaf or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. The problem is that even if you get opponents all tapped out, they could potentially get cards like Force of Will or Pact of Negation to counter whatever you've search for.
Grozoth can get you as many converted mana cost 9 cards in Simic as you want.
The "Mages" feature heavily in the Creature combinations section as they can give you access to so many cards.
You can also proxy through other cards to get particular card types;
Searching for Instants or Sorcery Spellseeker can get instant or sorcery converted mana 2 or less. One of the most versatile creatures in a Prime Speaker Vannifar, she can get you a lot of cards that will help your strategies.
Kaho, Minamo Historian can get instants but has summoning sickness and requires tapping for activation, so will need to wait a full turn or have haste;
It must be noted that Prime Speaker Vannifar herself cannot do anything at instant speed, so your forms of disruption in opponents turns, are solely based on what you might have in hand, or something you already have in play.
With Spellseeker and Kaho, Minamo Historian you can look to disrupt opponents with instant cards. Kaho, Minamo Historian with haste and even further untappers (for example Kiora's Follower) can be potent with some disruptive or protective elements.
You can even sacrifice Kaho, Minamo Historian to Prime Speaker Vannifar after all the spells have been cast, so no wastage there.
One of the more versatile abilities you can combine with Prime Speaker Vannifar, is to use the following creatures to get back cards from your graveyard for reuse or get back in the face of disruption.
One of the biggest reasons Prime Speaker Vannifar is so hard to permanently disrupt (besides keep removing her), is that you can get cards back that might have been put into your graveyard via removal or whatever.
So if an opponents removes a key card like Intruder Alarm, then you can just look to get it back with sacrificing a creature into Eternal Witness, Skullwinder, Greenwarden of Murasa.
So having access to a Two Drop creature into -> Eternal Witness to get the Intruder Alarm back.
If you setup your deck to be able chain from any converted mana cost (like my primer deck), it will always mean that you can get it back with any creature in play and Prime Speaker Vannifar. Scary, very scary, for opponents that is.
Reusing your graveyard
Alright so this one is realistically going to be more about style points, but there are situations where you might have gone through much of your creature base from library and are wanting them back into your library to search up again with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
So it's possible to play one or two of these so that you have the options of your creatures again. Some of your creature effects are going to be so special and not achievable from other sources that you can really look to leverage these to help out in that way.
Not only will there be a lot of lines to get value, but also combination play where you can copy creatures already on the board.
The suite of creatures that can copy other creatures, gives you access to potentially much cheaper sources of convereted mana cost to chain up higher, or even chain down lower if necessary.
You can see if you are trying to just use all creatures for removal than certain cards will get you in a Prime Speaker Vannifar focused build.
Simic is essentially known for is enchantment and artifact removal in Green, and for elements of returning cards to hand in Blue. Green does have non-creature removal, and Blue does have some creature removal, but mainly centered around returning cards to hand or countering spells on the stack.
Right so there are a lot more disruptive creatures, but they do not have enter the battlefield effects. This means that you would search for them, with the intention of probably just leaving them in play or sacrificing them to get the abilities.
This indicates that you are not chaining further with those creatures.
I've already mentioned how you can use Kaho, Minamo Historian or Spellseeker to search for instant card disruption.
It's important to know how you can use particular cards to search for and reuse particular cards that might not be creatures.
For example Snapcaster Mage and Torrential Gearhulk can be used on some instants that might be disruptive.
You might have searched with Spellseeker or Kaho, Minamo Historian to get Nature's Claim for example.
With it in the graveyard you could have a myriad of creatures to get it back for reuse. Look at the graveyard retrieval section for all the creature to return something like that.
For example you can potentially use a card like that to setup the equivalent of mass artifact/enchantment removal on opponents.
Let's say you have the means to keep untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar. Eternal Witness -> Archaeomancer -> Mnemonic Wall -> Greenwarden of Murasa.
Each time getting the Nature's Claim back from graveyard to destroy the most potent threats.
In this same sort of approach you can use creatures with countering abilities with the flash, by searching for them before hand. Draining Whelk, Mystic Snake, Frilled Mystic.
Now this seems counter-intuitive (bam pun), because you would be using Prime Speaker Vannifar activation's to set it up, for what would be no value at first.
For example you could use Fierce Empath to get Draining Whelk.
Or something like put Mystic Snake into play off Prime Speaker Vannifar (yes at sorcery speed and no value) and just sacrifice it straight away to chain up into say Grave Sifter to get the Mystic Snake into your hand.
Once again I'm going to focus more on potential creatures you can use, but there is nothing to do with chaining creatures, they need to remain in play to give you protection.
Alright so you might get a setup where you can get multiple activation's from Prime Speaker Vannifar each turn and be able to chain creatures together. But unless you have further creatures to put into play from your hand, you'll only be able to chain through one creature. When it's time to end your turn, you still only have that one creature in play, even if you did some cool stuff along the way.
In my primer I've already showed you how you can use Woodland Bellower and Protean Hulk to get other creature(s) into play, that will allow you to start chaining from a lower costing creature.
For those that are looking to really get value, it's important to identify where you can potentially get multiple sources of creatures. It's also very important for combo lines, and I've detailed a lot of these already.
Let's look at all our graveyard retrieval cards again. These can also be use to get addtional creature if you sacrifice them to chain into others.
The others are a lot trickier because they are more conditional on what else has gone on to get you to that point. Genesis is going to require (probably) passing the turn. Grave Sifter needs to be worked in with creature types.
The ones that return instants or sorcery have to be specifically worked with some sort of spell which searches for creatures, like Chord of Calling or Summoner's Pact.
Another way of getting multiple creatures is through creating tokens, which represent a zero costing creatures. So with that in mind, getting tokens into play means that you have to be geared to chain from a low-casting cost.
If you create a token that is a copy of another creature, then that token will also have the converted mana cost of that creature. Bramble Sovereign, Progenitor Mimic. Faerie Artisans will be completely random what you might end up with in your turn, but represents higher converted mana costs.
Alright so we have access to creating lots of token creatures, but what if you don't want to start chaining off at zero converted mana cost? Well I've already showed you in the section "Searching your library" how you can use further creature tutors. These creatures can get you other creatures at various converted mana costs.
These ones put other creatures directly into play; Woodland Bellower, Protean Hulk
These ones search library and go to hand or top of library; Fierce Empath, Mwonvuli Beast Tracker, Noble Benefactor, Grozoth.
It's random what you might get, but these can get you further creatures; Gamekeeper, Treasure Keeper
Other cards that let you put creatures into your hand off the top of your library; Foul Emissary, Sylvan Messenger, Brass Herald, Duskwatch Recruiter.
This is becoming more of "value" section as you are not controlling the actual converted mana costs and any card advantage creature could be used this way.
This section is for listing potential infinite or strong synergy combinations in Simic colors.
The purpose is to highlight particular lines of play that you could look to Pod into with Prime Speaker Vannifar. The combos involve creatures, and also creatures that can be used to proxy search for the non-creature elements.
I've literally used the thread "Infinite combos and strong synergies" to gather particular lines.
What I've done to extend it because most of them have non-creature elements, is that I've added a spoiler tag that shows potential ways of searching for the non-creature cards through proxy of other creatures.
*Note Palinchron infinite mana require lands that can provide at least 2UU + 5UU and have addtional mana left over. Most likely case is at least 6 lands that can provide double mana. Palinchron + any passive mana doubler (e.g. Caged Sun, Extraplanar Lens, etc.) = infinite mana
Because the deck needs very little mana and spells to operate (casting Prime Speaker Vannifar is basically the only main thing you need to do), one element you can look at is the addition of some Stax elements to slow or shut off your opponents.
With Prime Speaker Vannifar your actual need to cast cards from your hand is almost nothing, as she does most of the work for you.
If a card like Null Rod was played in the deck, then certainly you'd need to take out a few of your own sources of artifact mana.
But the reason I'm mentioning it is because you are playing so many mana creatures, it is possible for you to avoid artifact mana more, which a lot of decks do not have that luxury.
"You must discern what it means for you."
—Vannifar
I do specific card focuses on a weekly basis, so this section goes into great detail about how certain cards could be worked into a Prime Speaker Vannifar build.
So it can be important to have lines of winning with Protean Hulk in my opinion.
But there is a huge difference between winning with Prime Speaker Vannifar in play, i.e. she was the one sacrificing the Protean Hulk in the first place, or if you've done it via some other method, like using Flash.
Are these creatures synergistic for the rest of the deck? Ezuri, Claw of Progress can be triggered by a number of creatures coming into play during the course of the game, but in general you wouldn't use the +1/+1 counters during a cEDH game realistically, so only in the deck for the combo.
Sage of Hours also doesn't do anything except as part of this combo.
Option 2:
This method requires an additional 1U so wouldn't be appropriate if you are looking to win more on average on the first or even second turn, as you'll need to cast Flash as well, so requires 2UU
Protean Hulk with Prime Speaker Vannifar in play
With Prime Speaker Vannifar in play your options will be a lot more flexible, and honestly too numerous to really speculate on how you might configure your 6 converted mana worth of creatures. But I will keep appending to this section as I think of ways to win.
If anybody has some suggestions for Protean Hulk combos in Simic, please suggest them and leave a comment. There is no harm in building up as many potential packages as possible so that people can cross reference for the way they want to build their deck.
All up you'll need 2UGGGG for this one, plus four Forests. What you can do however is hold onto the Flash + Protean Hulk if you don't have the mana available, so if you only have 1GGGG then you can wait for a window to cast them.
So you can see straight away that you can't do progressive chains like Prime Speaker Vannifar using the same techniques. In this respect it's no one-for-one substitute.
What is Birthing Pod role then?
Well without Prime Speaker Vannifar in play you can look to get value. But you need to have value creatures in your deck otherwise it'll be a bit wasted. In my deck configurations, so many of the creatures are geared towards untapping.
With Prime Speaker Vannifar in play, Birthing Pod in many ways represents an untapper. If you have a chink in the chain, where it's hard to untap Vannifar through sequencing, then Birthing Pod can be use at that stage to get you to the next creature. I've already mentioned that Five converted mana cost creatures, often offer the least ways to untap her. So you could easily use Pod to move you along.
It also gives you flexibility during chains, that you normally couldn't do. For example normally you can't go for Fatestitcher if you don't have haste when doing chains, as you then don't have a way to untap Vannifar until your next turn.
But with Birthing Pod you can get Fatestitcher, as you can sacrifice it with it. This allows you to unearth it, to untap Vannifar. Now you can get two Five converted mana cost creatures, so represents also getting multiple creatures.
Having a backup engine to Prime Speaker Vannifar can be important in metas where you become the archenemy. Which is fair enough, she is a very broken commander.
Well you can put in cards like Emerald Charm, Dream's Grip, Twiddle, Dramatic Reversal, Psychic Puppetry for Vitalize in some of the combo chains, as they specifically say untap permanent(s) or the like, not just creatures. You need to be careful in that it's going to be a much more mana expensive process however. You don't get any benefits of potentially being able to untap mana creatures, which will often pays for the process.
Plus Birthing Pod itself also costs mana.
So all up it'll cost you 11UUUUU and 12 life, which can be a pretty tall order (let's say impossible).
But with non-land mana sources you can look to pay for the costs. You'll need some that provide blue; Birds of Paradise, Arbor Elf, Kiora's Follower, Voyaging Satyr. There are a lot more mana creatures in Simic that can provide U, so you might alter your build to suite this potential line more. Paying for the additional 2 would best be served with Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault also in play.
Tezzeret the Seeker is interesting in that you can use it to specifically search for Birthing Pod. If you were to use Tezzeret the Seeker [+1] first so that he didn't die searching for [-4], then on subsequent turns you can use the [+1] ability to untap the Birthing Pod. But getting it to [-5] to make Birthing Pod a creature is a slow process.
Once again you're far better off with a mana creature in play to pay for the Birthing Pod as you still need to spend at least 1 each time you activate it. A mana creature or artifact mana will pay for the cost each time in conjunction with Paradox Engine.
If you have several non-land mana sources, with one providing U, then something like Brainstorm would be more appealing than Gitaxian Probe as you can insure that you can keep putting creatures you want to search up back in your library. With Gitaxian Probe you'll be drawing 5 cards, so you might end up drawing a key creature.
Note that Isochron Scepter with Dramatic Reversal exiled can be used in similar ways. This isn't about casting cards however, if you can get at least 2 from non-land sources then you can keep reusing it, and so with Birthing Pod you'd need at least 3 to pay for the Pod activation as well.
Another alternative method is to actually use an extra turn card that doesn't exile itself, like Time Warp, Capture of Jingzhou, Temporal Manipulation, Walk the Aeons, Time Stretch, in conjunction with graveyard retrieval cards.
The biggest problem with this is that there are not many creatures that actually allow you to search for these cards in Simic.
This is pretty appealing as you can easily pay for costs and you get to draw a card for your additional turns, play another land, etc..I don't think I need to explain the usefulness of extra turns
Note that this line can also be done with Prime Speaker Vannifar, so having access to at least one extra turn cards seems pretty nice once you have 3UU to cast it, which on average will be the turn after you cast Prime Speaker Vannifar anyway.
Being able to Birthing Pod into Phyrexian Metamorph or Clever Impersonator to then make another copy of Birthing Pod means that you can use the new version straight away. So if you have other creatures to chain into then this is a very tempting idea to set yourself up for following turns having multiple activation's.
These are just solid options for Four Drop creatures with Prime Speaker Vannifar for value as well, depending on what is on the board already.
Mirage Mirror is also a solid all-star in commander, often doing things in games that you wouldn't expect. It can be extremely hard to remove as you can turn it into a land, often negating sorcery removal effects that would destroy it.
You can copy the Birthing Pod to get an additional use. Mirage Mirror can copy Wirewood Lodge to get another untap out of Prime Speaker Vannifar.
In conclusion
Let's get honest with ourselves, the weak part of any Prime Speaker Vannifar build that relies on her heavily, is herself. If she is dealt with constantly your deck can end up doing a lot of nothing.
Although straight up Birthing Pod is no substitute for Prime Speaker Vannifar, it does represent at the very least an on-board "untapper" for Prime Speaker Vannifar during more awkward sequences, and offers very powerful shortcuts if you use it in conjunction with Fatestitcher.
Also there are a lot of sequences that allow you to chain up into Seven converted mana creatures, but nothing that naturally allows you to sacrifice that Seven Drop. Protean Hulk being an example that you have to do a lot of Rube Goldberg machinery to be able to do that. With Birthing Pod you can use it to sacrifice your Seven Drop easily as well.
In decks that have a lot more value creatures, you can use it purely to get well..value.
If you have cards that can get more activation's out of it, then you can look to use it as an alternative to Prime Speaker Vannifar when you're used to her being the must remove target during games, which should happen often if your play group is smart. Setting up with Kiora's Follower and Fatestitcher with Birthing Pod is the equivalent of Prime Speaker Vannifar.
One thing is that Kiora's Follower and Fatestitcher will have summoning sickness normally, so you'd be looking to Pod into them and wait a turn before you can get your chains going.
Also that means that you can't sequence from creatures that are 2 converted mana cost lower than them, without waiting another subsequent turn, so two turns.
Trying to use Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger, Bounding Krasis, Breaching Hippocamp, won't work if they have summoning sickness, so in this respect you need to wait until they are able to untap.
So unless you actually have a One Drop creature to put Kiora's Follower into play, or a Three Drop creature to put Fatestitcher into play, then you'd have to wait two full turns sequencing a Zero Drop or Two Drop creature to get either of them into play.
Once again depending on your builds, cards like Intruder Alarm or Thornbite Staff only really work when Prime Speaker Vannifar is active and ready. Which is basically just a backup plan, and certainly a win-more in most instances.
You're probably better off having a backup plan to not having Prime Speaker Vannifar, then you're to not having access to certain creatures in your library.
I've heard these card works well with Prime Speaker Vannifar? On a serious note, you'll notice that these don't feature in any of the decks in the primer, not even as a fail safe to what the decks are already doing.
This is because the decks are heavily focused on being self contained win conditions with many paths to victory with untapping through creature chains.
It is a little hard to get away from the temptation of the combo element of Prime Speaker Vannifar, and not just want to win on the spot.
There are two things I want to talk about, one is what sort of deck would you make if Intruder Alarm/Thornbite Staff was a necessary or at least good card for your build?
The other is actually if you were to run Intruder Alarm/Thornbite Staff as a backup for your combo chain build, what does this even look like in terms of triggers, etc.
If you're sacrificing creatures to get more creatures, then you're going to run out of creatures in your deck to search at each converted mana cost at a certain stage.
This is where Loaming Shaman and Body Double can be looped to give yourself infinite reshuffles of your graveyard.
You can just keep shuffling the other back into you library as long as you can keep both chaining up and start chains at two or lower converted mana cost.
Let's pick a "win condition" creature as well to show the sort of chaining you can infinite loop. In this case I'll use Reef Worm to show how making creature tokens means that you can chain again from Zero Drop into Loaming Shaman again.
You can just keep repeating making infinite 9/9 blue Kraken creature tokens.
If you wanted to add other win conditions then you can do stuff like make your Two Drop Cloud of Faeries or One Drop Blisterpod for infinite mana.
Then you can draw your deck by finally putting a draw creature into play like River Hoopoe or Thrasios, Triton Hero.
You could combine life gain creature with finally using Squallmonger to kill opponents once you are ready.
Alternatively playing Tukatongue Thallid and Vitaspore Thallid to give all your 9/9 Kraken's haste. Merrow Witsniper will mill opponents libraries.
It's important to remember that you are sacrificing one creature to get to the next with Intruder Alarm/Thornbite Staff and Prime Speaker Vannifar.
So I can't stress the importance of having creatures that can "create" other creatures.
There is Woodland Bellower and Protean Hulk of course. As long as you have a lot of creatures in your deck at each converted mana cost, you could split up Protean Hulk into 6 One Drops if you had them, to then proceed to chain up to they were all Ten Drops..if your deck was built that way
You could also use cards that make lots of tokens like Avenger of Zendikar or Hornet Queen.
This gives you flexibility not to just have 'enter the battlefield' or 'dies' triggers, as you'll actually be able to leave a number of creatures in play.
The question is what do you want to leave in play and how high to you want to keep chaining up creatures?
If you're going up to say a Ten Drop or more, then what is your Nine Drop doing for you, if it just gets sacrificed immediately?
There are actually only 22 creatures to choose from in all of Magic in Simic at Nine Drop, and the truth is that they really don't do anything (if sacrificed immediately) except being part of the chain. Void Winnower and Nullstone Gargoyle are nice control creatures but require to stay in play to get value. Grozoth is the only one that gives you an enter battlefield trigger, so this could be worked in?
Now in much the same way that we were using Loaming Shaman and Body Double to create an infinite creature cycle loop, you can do the same thing with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
If you were to chain through them you can shuffle your graveyard into your library.
The difference between Intruder Alarm and Thornbite Staff is that Intruder Alarm needs a creature to 'enter the battlefield', where as Thornbite Staff just needs anything to die. Thornbite Staff is different in that it's going to trigger no matter what, if you use Prime Speaker Vannifar, even if you fail to search for a creature.
If you have Intruder Alarm it's going to depend on how many other creatures you have greater than those Eldrazi? If it's Thornbite Staff then you don't have to worry about that, and can do it an infinite amount of times, as long as you have another creature to chain, i.e. creature token or something similar at a lower cost to get a value train going again.
If you have a creature sacrifice outlet at some stage, then you can sacrifice the Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre to put it back into your library, so that you can infinitely loop searches.
For example if you were to use Profaner of the Dead as part of the chain each time, then you can keep the loop going.
Also you could use Worldspine Wurm instead of Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre as it creates creature tokens on dies, and also shuffles back into you library. So you can sacrifice the Worldspine Wurm and you get to untap Vannifar, even if you fail to find a creature.
There are any amount of chains that you could do, but I'll give you an example of a God sequence..
Merrow Witsniper will mill opponents libraries, then you can use Chancellor of the Spires to cast their instants and sorceries.
You can destroy all the non-creature permanents, making them 3/3 green Elephant creature tokens, which you can then proceed to exile with Duplicant.
For added spice you can play Clone Legion in your deck and search it with Grozoth, cast it potentially infinite times, as you get infinite mana with Peregrine Drake and remember all your spells get shuffled back in with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, so all the instant and sorcery you get with Augur of Bolas you'll be able to keep recasting as well.
OK, this is complete overkill, but represents a fun chain (for you). You could just have Triskelion as a way to kill opponents, and then all the other converted mana costs would be arbitrary.
The realms of possibilities are endless with creature bases and using Intruder Alarm and Thornbite Staff, so it's just up to you what you might concoct.
The problem with doing this is when you literally don't have a creature to search with Prime Speaker Vannifar at a certain mana cost. You can try and make sure your build has an even spread of converted mana cost creatures to make sure you don't draw too many of a particular cost, but it's always random what you might draw, milled, etc.
Primer decks
Let's look at Intruder Alarm and Thornbite Staff as potential redundancy in the primer builds. It's worth asking the question "Are they better than other work around for redundancy?".
Most of the problems you have, is not having these not in your library. But even then, there are contingency plans, that can be worked around in some manner.
The literally worst is if Body Double is in your graveyard.
You still need a Five Drop to sacrifice into Deadeye Navigator so even with Intruder Alarm, your sort of stuck on the same problems. Intruder Alarm or Thornbite Staff could be used as a substitute for needing to cast Thousand-Year Elixir if you do draw it and play it however.
This method doesn't really require mana on the combo turn if you've already cast, rather than the 4 you need for Thousand-Year Elixir.
Now in my primer deck list, I have a lot more chains I could use with Intruder Alarm or Thornbite Staff, but the reality is that I've built the deck to have multiple ways to chain in the first place so the redundancy is just not necessary.
Combo cards without Prime Speaker Vannifar Intruder Alarm and Thornbite Staff have been around for a while, and are certainly used as combo cards on their own right.
If you have some means of producing creatures with an on-board ability and have the mana to pay for it, then you can look to do it infinite times.
You can also use cards that bounce creatures to also get loops going. Cloudstone Curio, Equilibrium can bounce creatures and if you have the mana sources to keep paying for recasting creatures you bounce you can get infinite loops going. You'd want some sort of payoff, maybe 'enter the battlefield' trigger, etc.
Thornbite Staff is a bit more tricky to build combos around as it specifically requires creatures to die and it only untaps the creature that it's equipped too. Perfect for Prime Speaker Vannifar as she both taps and sacrifices for activation. Arcum Dagsson and Jalira, Master Polymorphist can be used in a similar manner.
You could setup sacrifice outlets like Phyrexian Altar in conjunction with something that generates token creatures, like Kazandu Tuskcaller to get infinite mana.
In conclusion
If you're playing a self contained combo deck, then make sure you really look at how beneficial it is to have cards like Intruder Alarm or Thornbite Staff even as purely backup cards, because you might find they don't help you as much as you think.
It seems counter intuitive because Intruder Alarm is a signature card, literally in 62% of decks being analysed by EDHREC. Thornbite Staff is in a lot less at about a quarter of decks.
But I want it to be clear that it can be an easy trap for some people thinking that they will be automatically be great in their decks.
But in decks that are specifically designed around them they will be all-stars, and possibly actually necessary as a win condition.
It is possible to just play Intruder Alarm or Thornbite Staff for pure value however, and the results can still be so over-whelming that it's a game winning play.
In this respect your creature base might just be a solid mid-range deck, that can work without Prime Speaker Vannifar in play in general. Gaining enough value just through casting solid creatures that can interact enough with opponents to slow them down, or gain you some additional resources.
Intruder Alarm is a combo card in it's own right, so it is possible to setup alternative win conditions without Prime Speaker Vannifar as a back up plan. There is a wealth of combinations, so it comes down to if you feel like the cards fit into your build in a synergistic way.
Retreat to Coralhelm / Tideforce Elemental
Retreat to Coralhelm
Tideforce Elemental
Most commander decks are going to benefit from ramping lands into play, but we can really get things going with a couple of cards that can look to chain together 'landfall' with untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar to keep reusing her.
At this stage you can branch off a number of different ways.
Because this sequence specifically goes off 'dies' triggers, you'll be able to go into a Six Drop creature and have Prime Speaker Vannifar untapped.
This means that you'll be able to sacrifice the Six Drop creature into a Seven Drop creature.
At Five converted mana cost, is often a sticking point for Prime Speaker Vannifar builds unless you truly sequence things in particular ways.
If we are chaining into Chakram Retriever and wanting to keep it in play to get multiple uses from it, maybe every turn, then you need to have a plan.
Maybe the best thing to do is assume you have another creature in play to carry on Prime Speaker Vannifar chains if you're going to setup Chakram Retriever.
Your build is also going to want to have a number of cheap spells to cast. But at the same time it's not like you need a lot of spells to get value, casting even a couple of spells one or two mana spells is going to do a lot for you.
You can easily sequence into it from anywhere from a Zero to a Four Drop. Then you just cast a spell to untap Vannifar, and use other creatures to keep chains going.
Once again you might not be looking for auto-win style decks. Instead looking fun and value out of your chaining.
Whether that is land ramp creatures, or maybe more geared towards a controlling and disruptive deck.
What cheap spells and how do I better guarantee that I have them to cast?
Well if your deck doesn't have a lot of draw, then you can be a bit reliant on what you have in hand already at the stage of getting Chakram Retriever.
There are a wealth of different ways you could build your deck to accommodate this more, too many to mention them all.
But certainly if your deck was playing more of the cantrips like, Preordain, Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, to name a few.
In this respect a card like Chakram Retriever will actually serve you better than other combo cards like Thornbite Staff, Intruder Alarm, Paradox Engine, to an extent.
The reason is that you can't search for enchantments or artifacts (artifacts that are not part of the 'Mages' 0,1,3,6+).
Sure you can get more upside from the other combo cards, and you need to have cards and mana to get multiple uses out of Chakram Retriever, but if your deck is setup for it more, then I'm just highlighting how much more likely you can setup yourself up.
Plus there is the added bonus of not relying on other cards types other than 'creatures', so you can sequence into Bane of Progress for example without losing anything.
More draw and mana might be appropriate.
You can sequence for example Relentless Skaabs -> Prime Speaker Zegana to draw you at least 6 cards, giving you plenty of fuel for casting cards.
If you already have a source of mana in play like Mana Vault or KrosaGalvanic Alchemisn Restorer, then you can just look to cast spells from your hand, potentially untapping the mana source to be able to cast more spells.
It also be noted that you can sequence from a Three Drop or Four Drop into Chakram Retriever. Now the relevance of this is that if you go all the way back into the main primer, I talk about Three Drop (or higher) not being very good to sequence from at the start of your turn, as you often require cards in graveyard for Mnemonic Wall and Body Double to do anything.
So with Chakram Retriever it does give you more scope to use kind of wasted Three Drop or Four Drop that might be in play from previous turns.
Illusionist's Bracers / Rings of Brighthearth
Illusionist's Bracers
Rings of Brighthearth
I initially misinterpreted how these worked with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
I thought that you'd need to sacrifice separate creatures for each copied activation, but this is not the case.
What happens is that you get to sacrifice a creature, and then you get to search for two creatures for the same converted mana cost.
"The animals went in two by two hurrah hurrah"
Being able to get multiple creatures from one activation is one of the most sort after attributes when using Prime Speaker Vannifar. Woodland Bellower and Protean Hulk being the go to for many sequences because of being able to do this.
But here we have a way of combining creatures to do a number of things.
Rings of Brighthearth requires spending 2 but we know now that Prime Speaker Vannifar is always just a tap away from winning, so let's dive into what you could potentially setup with either of these artifacts.
With the ability to get two creatures at the same converted mana cost, you could easily go for an untapping creature, while the other provides some sort of combo or value, protection or disruption.
With untappers, you really can setup any type of creature combination wins that you want.
In the primer, there is a section 'Creature combinations' which will help you get some ideas of possible ways to win. I'm going to present some combo lines that I could think of.
In conclusion
It's pretty obvious that the flood gates are open for multitudes of combos, with either Illusionist's Bracers or Rings of Brighthearth.
With Rings of Brighthearth you have to be realistic about how many times you can use it in a turn however, due to costing 2 each time.
If you can equip Prime Speaker Vannifar with Illusionist's Bracers, then most builds are going to be able to setup continuous chaining for some sort of combo win, or at least incredible value.
As I've shown you can easily chain into a number of different combo wins very easily.
With them, they also have infinite combos within a number of creatures that you might already being playing with your deck because they help to untap Vannifar, it's always going to be one of the most synergistic and powerful of the redundancy combo cards.
In this respect, they can be really great backup win conditions for when Prime Speaker Vannifar has been hated out of a game.
I can't stress how being able to get multiple creatures from a Prime Speaker Vannifar activation can really set you up. Being able to activate her multiple times in a turn is one thing, but you're only cycling through one creature normally. So being able to get more creatures into play for more chains, is really powerful.
The number of ways that you can combine creature chains is too be honest mind boggling with Prime Speaker Vannifar, so I've given some examples, but this post would only scratch the surface.
I'm keen to hear about any combinations that people can think of, and I will add them to the primer if appropriate.
Galvanic Alchemist / Vigean Graftmage
Galvanic Alchemist
Vigean Graftmage
These are some creatures that can untap other creatures, but also have the ability to do it multiple times (unlimited) at the cost of mana.
They are both Three Drop and blue creatures. This means that you can't use Green Sun's Zenith, Summoner's Pact or Woodland Bellower to search for them. Vigean Graftmage specifically needs a creature to have a +1/+1 counter on it. Even though it has graft, this means that you can only put the counters from it as the creature enters play. In this regard, using Prime Speaker Vannifar to put it into play, means that you can't specifically use the graft to give Prime Speaker Vannifar a counter. Meaning you need some other way of putting counters on her. I will discuss this further on.
If you wanted to play these cards then it leads into wanting the play other creatures that have activation's probably as well.
Now Deadeye Navigator already has an activation cost of 1U and so with these cards you can then use Cloud of Faeries as another way to get infinite mana.
Temur Sabertooth is another creature that can benefit from a reduced activation cost. Possibly opening up infinite's that you are looking to combine with it.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard would only cost G which would open up some doors for particular builds.
Alright so can we sequence into Galvanic Alchemist or Vigean Graftmage in a way that's going to allow us to win with Prime Speaker Vannifar?
Well the answer depends on how much mana you have and if you have another creature to sacrifice to Prime Speaker Vannifar?
You can obviously sacrifice a Two Drop to get Galvanic Alchemist, but then you'll need 2U and another creature to even just get the party started.
But what is your winning combination of creatures?
If you're going to try a get infinite mana with a mana creature then you'll need haste. You get into this odd position of needing to get a haste enabler if you don't have access to one already.
Please check out the section 'Haste' in the primer for details on various ways you can get this.
This method requires 7GGUU, which as you can see if pretty mana intensive. Using Galvanic Alchemist ability adds up real fast if needing to use it multiple times, and having to spend extra on Green Sun's Zenith is harder if needing to get further creatures into play.
Note that this isn't the only way. Maybe you have Scryb Ranger in your graveyard, so instead of Spellseeker you could get Eternal Witness, and then it'll cost 5GGUU all up.
Please check out the section 'Multiple creatures' in the primer for details on various ways you can look to get more creatures into play.
Is there a way to get Biomancer's Familiar and Galvanic Alchemist into play with Prime Speaker Vannifar?
Once again we are trying to get two creatures into play permanently, so would even need a third creature to chain to "do something" once you have them in play.
So if you have 3 creatures in play already then it's much easier. It's once you start having to get multiple creatures into play that it's more mana intensive, etc.
This method requires 2UU as long as you have 3 lands that can provide U each, as Cloud of Faeries and Peregrine Drake untap them along the way allowing you to free up mana for the Galvanic Alchemist activation's.
But you literally need 2 x One Drop and a Two Drop creature at the start. This does happen during some games, you draw your mana creatures, and in the right build having a Two Drop is the norm during games.
Note that you could use Glen Elendra Archmage instead of Fatestitcher, and it'll actually cost you U less.
In conclusion
There are going to be hundreds, if not thousands of ways to combine all the cards I mentioned in this post to sequence ways to win. But it's all going to come down to efficiency.
If you already have a cost reduction card like Biomancer's Familiar or Training Grounds, then your options are much better.
You could then use Galvanic Alchemist for untapping creatures for just U. This opens the door for any amount of sequencing you want really.
If you have a haste enabler already then you can just aim for mana creature that allows you to go infinite with Vigean Graftmage or Galvanic Alchemist if you also have the means to meet the other requirements of getting the mana creatures to produce more than the activation cost.
If you were to play Biomancer's Familiar, then as I've already mentioned this might lead you on to play other cards that also would benefit from cost reduction.
I think if you were to truly look to leverage Galvanic Alchemist and Vigean Graftmage then your build would probably want most of the proactive cards I've mentioned in this post as they all work together.
The honest truth is that I could spend days coming up with a deck build melding synergy into these creatures.
Trying to come up with sequences is also too numerous for the amount of time I can spend on these posts
However that does not mean that I will not endeavour to document as ideas come to mind. So this section will be added to the primer under 'Spotlight on Potential Cards' and I will add to it as things unfold in the future.
It is always important to point out that Galvanic Alchemist and Vigean Graftmage are creatures, and as such are often better in your deck that say Intruder Alarm or Thornbite Staff, as they allow you to plan for getting into play with Prime Speaker Vannifar, as opposed to hoping to randomly draw them.
So if you have a deck that looks to do multiple things with creatures, like disruption, value, etc, then a well setup untapper will allow you to do these things.
There are more efficient combo lines in general, so as far as looking to make Galvanic Alchemist and Vigean Graftmage one turn win combos, they are not the most mana efficient due to literally costing mana each time you use them.
This is great obviously, but there is no easy way to get Naban, Dean of Iteration into play and be able to chain into Spellseeker in a single turn.
It might be the sort of thing you can do if you have naturally drawn Naban, Dean of Iteration, so you can just play him out and then use you first other Two Drop creature into Spellseeker. Otherwise you're looking at complicated lines.
You'll need 2UGGGG, plus four Forests. Which ultimately is not very appealing if you're looking to specifically sequence into them off a single creature.
But you can see if you have an untap source naturally then it can be by far the most tempting way to get a lot of value and perhaps insurance along the way.
You can sacrifice a One Drop creature into Naban, Dean of Iteration and then untap Vannifar.
Now you can do the same sequence you'd normally do for the Protean Hulk/Vitalize line, but you're going to get more triggers.
For example Spellseeker can get Vitalize and Brainstorm.
This allows you to put back any creatures from your hand that you might be wanting to put into play off Prime Speaker Vannifar. Archaeomancer can get back the Vitalize and Brainstorm. Scrivener will allow you to do the same again, giving you a way to mold your hand (and library) to better disrupt opponents if they decided to get cleaver.
In conclusion
Although it's unlikely that you'll specifically try to sequence into Naban, Dean of Iteration with limited resources, if you have an untapper already and a spare creature to chain, then it's a very tempting creature to get first.
If you naturally draw it and play it, then it can set you up very easily for a Flash + Protean Hulk.
If you did play Naban, Dean of Iteration the you'd just want to play a few more cards that you can get bonuses off.
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
The reason is that with Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger as key cards probably in any Prime Speaker Vannifar build, the ability to get multiple untaps and even gain mana off Azusa, Lost but Seeking is certainly worth a look at.
Also Exploration can be similar, but more explosive if you have it early on in the game. But because you can't use Prime Speaker Vannifar to search for it remains random to whether you draw it or not.
Now if you can get Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger and Azusa, Lost but Seeking into play at the same time, the Forest that you return can be played out each time you'd use a Ranger. So not only can you untap any creature, it might be Prime Speaker Vannifar, but it could even be a mana creature. Returning the Forest will mean that you guarantee making additional land drops for the turn, gaining extra mana from that as well.
Getting Azusa, Lost but Seeking into play with even at least one of these creatures isn't that simply however. Once again there is no simple chain with Prime Speaker Vannifar that will allow you to do it easily.
Now this is also less about cEDH play, and more about casual or competitive play where you've geared up for less about one-turn-wins and trying to setup for more battle-cruiser games.
If you can setup multiple untaps each turn, then you can look to get more value creatures, rather than combo lines.
This example is if you actually chain from a Zero Drop creature;
In subsequent turns you'll get two additional untaps and most likely two additional mana.
If your build had Paradox Engine, then you can see how excellent this sort of sequencing is with mana creatures in play, as you get to keep putting more creatures into play while also casting spells to trigger the Paradox Engine.
With Prime Speaker Vannifar ability to search for any creature, being able to search Timestream Navigator potentially every turn..well you guessed it, can get you infinite turns. So you can look for this card to be a win condition.
But there are some requirements in order to be able to do this. Firstly you need to always have a creature to sacrifice. If you are sacrificing creatures then you need to be able to produce them from somewhere.
The other thing is that you will need some way of giving the Timestream Navigator haste or be able to activate it's ability because of summoning sickness. Otherwise you'll only get an extra turn every alternative turn, which honestly isn't the worst
But for true infinite you'll need to have some way of doing all this.
The City Blessing is another requirement, as well as spending 2UU, but these are not hard to achieve.
You are going to need to chain from a One Drop into Timestream Navigator.
How do you produce a One Drop creature every turn?
There is no easy way to keep producing an actual One Drop each turn that I have found or can think of.
Creating token creatures seems to be the only feasible way of doing this, which means that you can produce Zero costing creatures. So then you have to go Zero Drop into One Drop into Timestream Navigator.
Another way to get creatures into play that are non-Zero costing tokens, is with Bramble Sovereign. You could potential copy the One Drop creature you search for and make a copy.
If we are going Zero Drop into One Drop into Timestream Navigator, then this also means that we need an untapper. You really need some sort of on-board untapper when looking to go infinite.
Ability to continuously put cards back from graveyard into library.
You can see that even though it looks like it should be a simply combo first of all, it actually requires quite a few very specific moving parts.
There will be a ton of different ways you can set this up, but I'll give you some example sequences.
Because Thousand-Year Elixir can check-off both mitigating summoning sickness and give you an on-board untapper, I feel like this will probably be key to helping you achieve this as a win condition.
The downside to this method is that your land drop is always tied up with Dryad Arbor, which isn't too bad, you should be able to do what you need to win anyway. You will be down a mana creature, even though you got an additional one at the start.
Because it specifically requires Thousand-Year Elixir to work, you can't just sacrifice Protean Hulk using any line for a win.
So you can't just use Flash + Protean Hulk this combo, without needing more mana.
Now the reason I picked Tukatongue Thallid over Blisterpod is because I've discussed it's synergy with Vitaspore Thallid to be able to give a creature haste. So it's just better to think in terms of how your build might be able to incorporate both these.
Arcum Dagsson
At first this seems like an unusual card to talk about considering he is already a commander that you can play as your general, rather than in your 99.
However Prime Speaker Vannifar has this ornate ability to search up any creature in your deck. So she becomes a proxy to any creature you want.
This isn't about a building an "Arcum Dagsson" deck with Prime Speaker Vannifar, but how Arcum Dagsson can be both powerful and synergistic in your 99 without too much effort, if built a certain way.
What specifically would we be wanting to search with Arcum Dagsson?
If you read my posts focused on Birthing Pod on Page 5, you'll might have noted how particular artifacts can used to create an alternative method of chaining into creatures when Prime Speaker Vannifar is not at your disposal (i.e she has been hated out).
So what other artifact creatures might one play?
Well colored mana creatures are always welcome, so even though they cost a little more than their counterparts Copper Myr and Silver Myr are fine additions.
I personally think 10 artifact creatures is around the minimum you'd play to have more of chance of drawing one, but you can always use Prime Speaker Vannifar to get one in a pinch.
Let's look at him in two different ways. One where you want to use him with Prime Speaker Vannifar in play and another where you are looking to use him as a backup plan for when Prime Speaker Vannifar is hated out.
Now you if you have a spell to cast, then you can get Paradox Engine to untap both Prime Speaker Vannifar and Arcum Dagsson, and there are going to be a lot of different things you can do with both of them.
You can use Prime Speaker Vannifar to get another artifact creature like, Myr Retriever, Junk Diver, Workshop Assistant, Scrap Trawler, then sacrifice again to Arcum Dagsson.
You'll be able to get an artifact back from graveyard via the dies trigger, and this will just give you another spell to cast to untap them with Paradox Engine.
You really want some amount of artifact mana and/or mana creatures to pay for casting spells. You should be able to setup some spicy chains.
This is also an example sequence of just winning with some other combo cards;
1.) Activate Arcum Dagsson sacrifice artifact creature to put Paradox Engine into play.
2.) Cast a spell, untapping non-land permanents.
3.) Activate Arcum Dagsson sacrifice artifact creature to put Citanul Flute into play.
4.) Activate Citanul Flute for [mana]0[mana] getting Zero Drop Creature.
5.) Cast Zero Drop Creature, untapping non-land permanents.
6.) Activate Arcum Dagsson Zero Drop Creature to put Mana Vault into play.
7.) Activate Citanul Flute for [mana]2[mana] getting Myr Retriever.
8.) Cast Myr Retriever for [mana]2[mana], untapping non-land permanents.
9.) Activate Citanul Flute for [mana]3[mana] getting Junk Diver.
10.) Cast Junk Diver for [mana]3[mana], untapping non-land permanents.
11.) Chain Junk Diver, Myr Retriever for infinite mana.
12.) Activate Citanul Flute for [mana]0[mana] getting Walking Ballista.
In conclusion
If you were already thinking of some sort of more artifact centric build, then you can do a lot with Arcum Dagsson, Paradox Engine, Birthing Pod, Isochron Scepter/Dramatic Reversal in your deck, to name a few.
Support cards are needed, like playing a number of artifact creatures, but the point is that you would be playing them anyway if your build was hoping to use artifacts more.
There are a lot of combos that involve creature(s) and artifact(s), so with Prime Speaker Vannifar ability to search for creatures, and Arcum Dagsson ability to search for artifacts, you can look to combine them to get your pieces.
Let's not forget that Prime Speaker Vannifar can search for Arcum Dagsson, thus allowing you access to your artifacts.
Elite Arcanist
If you have Vitalize or Dramatic Reversal in hand at the time Elite Arcanist comes into play then you can look to setup to go infinite with other non-land mana sources, like artifact mana and mana creatures (Vitalize only).
It works in very much the same way as Isochron Scepter.
The difference, besides cost, between Isochron Scepter and Elite Arcanist is that as a creature it also has summoning sickness, meaning you can't use it the turn it comes into play.
The most obvious way is to chain into Spellseeker to get Vitalize or Dramatic Reversal. But there is no obvious way to untap Vannifar and give Elite Arcanist haste in the same turn, for some sort of one turn win, like we've setup with a lot of other combo chains.
This method requires 6GU and 2 x Two Drop creatures. Realistically you want some forms of non-land mana sources, as this will actually allow you to get infinite mana, if you can get more than the cost of what you exile with Elite Arcanist.
But compare this with the 4 you need for Peregrine Drake and Deadeye Navigator combo, and you can see that this would only be purely used as a backup.
What if Prime Speaker Vannifar is not in play? Elite Arcanist exiling Dramatic Reversal also enables you to use Birthing Pod in the same manner as Prime Speaker Vannifar.
In this respect you can look for it to be a way to win when Prime Speaker Vannifar has been hated out of a game. However without haste, it is a slower process as you have to wait several turns.
As you can see without haste you have to wait a full turn to activate Elite Arcanist. And without burning the Dramatic Reversal before you get Arcanist into play, you have to wait a full turn to get the Birthing Pod untapped.
You can see that if you have this creature base then this is more appealing as in theory you can sequence for the same turn win, as long as you have the non-land mana sources to keep paying for the Dramatic Reversal.
In conclusion
On the surface Elite Arcanist looks like it could be a decent backup plan to a variety of ways to combo. But you do need to have support cards already to make it work in a timely manner.
It may seem like a good alternative to even Isochron Scepter as you can search it with Prime Speaker Vannifar. But as I've shown without a haste element, you end up waiting additional turns.
There are deck configurations where it can be good for your build. But it will require specific cards in my opinion and probably the absence of some other cards as well (like the graveyard retrieval creatures).
Decks that are already playing Illusionist's Bracers and Rings of Brighthearth will certainly make Elite Arcanist more appealing.
Riptide Shapeshifter
Probably one of the most overlooked cards in commander for what it could actually offer your deck as far as versatility of trading up.
It's ability to potentially get you any creature in certain builds will go unaware for many peoples long standing decks.
The complexity of even considering a card like this is that you have to evaluate every creature in your deck to know exactly how it performs. Adding and removing creatures as you tweak a deck, when playing Riptide Shapeshifter means that you have to think about how those creature types might effect your ability to get particular cards.
But what people wouldn't even factor in is that often this card can be turned into any creature in your deck. Finding out that frequently your more powerful creatures can be searched with one-off creature types.
With Riptide Shapeshifter not only does it allow you to potentially sequence into another untapper, but it also allows you up upgrade, or even downgrade your creature. Exactly the sort of thing we are always looking to do with Prime Speaker Vannifar in the first place.
For 2UU you can choose Praetor and chain straight into Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur!!
Choose Eldrazi and get yourself an Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or maybe Golem and get Blightsteel Colossus.
There are certainly a range of creatures you can select from and guarantee it's success.
OK, so what can it do for your deck?
Well this is where you've got really break down your creatures, and exactly what choosing a creature type will do for you.
So for example let's look at the primer deck. We will break down the creatures into types.
The only Eight Drop creature in all of Simic that offers chaining up is Patron of the Orochi and this requires haste if wanting to use straight away.
There are no Nine or more converted mana cost creatures that actually are able to untap Vannifar in Simic. So chaining creatures past Eight or more, is dependent on additional untappers you might have access to or it can't be done.
With Riptide Shapeshifter you can plan for this much higher chaining now.
In conclusion
I implore you to see how Riptide Shapeshifter can fit into your Prime Speaker Vannifar build.
It's a real way of chaining and a solution to the often awkward Five Drop creature 'untapping' slot.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary / Vizier of the Menagerie
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Vizier of the Menagerie
When I start these card discussions I never actually know what the outcomes are, I do them for my own personal thought experiments so that I further my understanding of how they could be worked into a Prime Speaker Vannifar build.
Obviously you can't search for Momir Vig with Prime Speaker Vannifar if these hate cards are in play, but what if I had Momir Vig as a card I could draw to circumnavigate these types of cards?
The basic plan to tutor up Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel, which means that for every two 1cmc Green Creature Elves we cast, we net a G. As this gets more mana than you spend, it means we can chain tutors to generate more and more mana, and eventually assemble a combo. This is called a "tutor chain" or a "dork chain". Notably, it's hard to disrupt, because we get the tutors whether or not our creature resolves. Assuming you have a creature that taps for mana or a land drop, as well as a Forest, the combo needs only G to combo off post-tutor:
Tutor and play Quirion Ranger for G, and tutor up Heritage Druid, and either untap your dork or return a Forest and replay it, so that you go net-even on mana.
Tutor chaining is a powerful tool that allows us to generate mana and gives us the ability to adapt extremely well to hostile board states. In general, after starting the tutor chain, you should fetch Birchlore Rangers to get access to blue mana (you may also use Quirion Ranger to bounce and replay a blue dual to achieve the same), then use it to cast Phantasmal Image as a copy of Nettle Sentinel. With two "copies" of Nettle Sentinel, every green creature will make GGG, which makes it much easier to assemble the Infinite Mana Loop.
This loop generates GGGGGGG for every 1GGGG you spend, which allows you to go infinite. Afterwards, you can generate infinite U by using Birchlore Rangers and Temur Sabertooth. This means that you have infinite mana of any color, as well as infinite tutors thanks to Temur Sabertooth.
But alternatively because you are more into an elf tribal deck, you can potentially not go for any infinite's and simply get all your green creatures out onto the board.
You can always finish up with at least one blue creature as well, but this won't allow you to search for another creature, as Momir Vig only allows searching when it's "green".
But for example you could get all your green creatures out making sure to get Craterhoof Behemoth, then on your last search get Treasure Mage to get Akroma's Memorial, which will be more than lethal damage for all opponents.
Let's just do a little math check. Remember that each of our 1 mana creatures produces GG (net). If our deck had this type of creature base with mana creatures;
In conclusion
There will be hundreds of ways to combo with Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and Vizier of the Menagerie in play, but I think that it best suites a build that has a lot of mana creatures already and you're willing to play some of the "elves matter" cards in Heritage Druid, Nettle Sentinel, Birchlore Rangers.
These can strengthen the speed of your deck for the right build, very explosive starts, and ups your creature count potentially in a positive way.
Then you can take out/don't run a lot of other creature combos that you might have been thinking about.
For example in my primer decks they have Peregrine Drake + Deadeye Navigator but instead you can run Temur Sabertooth + Wirewood Symbiote as a source of infinite mana.
Then you really have a powerful creature in your 99 with Momir Vig that can act as an alternative to Prime Speaker Vannifar if she has been hated out of the game.
Plus Vizier of the Menagerie is a great card on it's own, Prime Speaker Vannifar ability does allow you to shuffle your library for additional looks at the top of your deck.
Why not just play Momir Vig, Simic Visionary as your commander if you want to run these combos? Well I've actually written a section within the primer on reasons why you might want to play Prime Speaker Vannifar as your commander even when you are looking to use other legendary creatures as key cards. For more details click here to read up on it.
But in general you're still looking to combo in other ways, and for a relatively small combo package it provides methods of playing around being hated out by cards that specifically shut downs Prime Speaker Vannifar abilities.
It still won't save you from Aven Mindcensor or Stranglehold, but you can probably get around almost all the other cards that shut down Prime Speaker Vannifar activation's.
Is a new card from War of the Spark (even at uncommon). Similar to Eldritch Evolution, but with some important differences. You have to select a creature exactly 1 converted mana cost more, where Eldritch Evolution you can go for converted mana costs at 2 higher or same or lesser. Not a huge deal, often you'd be looking to always get to the maximum converted mana cost out of the cards, but there might be situations where you want to convert a creature into removal that would require you to get a lower or same casting cost creature for example.
But the main difference is that Neoformdoesn't get exiled. This card is perfect for the deck as it's another backup way to win without Prime Speaker Vannifar in play.
In conclusion
You have to cast Neoform five times and cast Archaeomancer, so realistically going to need to be spread out over probably a couple of turns. But in games where Vannifar has been shut out, it's a very good game plan.
"When the Prime Speaker goes too far, I will be here in the safety of the deeps to correct her."
—Zegana
This section is more for discussion on general ideas, rather than specifically about a particular card or set of cards.-------------------------------------------------
Hypothetical Turn 1 or Turn 2 wins with Haste
I've already seen a video posted of a hypothetical turn one win. But it involves some very specific cards in your opening hand.
Now this is all well and cool for style points, but you don't want to be basing your deck around needing specific cards too much. Having the exact combination of cards in your hand to get a Turn 1 or 2 win, really needs to be balanced up with how good those cards are at other times.
I still think the best line is NOT needing haste for creatures is the way to go. As you can see there really are not that many ways of giving your creatures haste in Simic, so best to avoid completely relying on it.
More specifically if you do have the ability to get haste then can you win on the turn you cast Prime Speaker Vannifar?
What would a sequence like this look like for the current deck configuration? Well it's basically the same as Trophy Mage into Thousand-Year Elixir but because you already have haste you can just replace the Trophy Mage with ..
So the answer is yes you can do it. However the combo is reliant on having 3 lands in play. This cannot ever be a Turn 1 or Turn 2 win. You basically trade in quality of cards for less potential speed.
But setting up the deck to also be able to chain into Protean Hulk from zero costing creatures is a different story when you can't use Peregrine Drake and Deadeye Navigator to combo.
So you can look to use the Vitalize line into Protean Hulk instead. You will need a mana creature on the board to keep paying for the Vitalize however if comboing early.
With this line you can combo without needing the lands, but requires a mana creature, along with another creature to start the chain sacrifice.
So what if you wanted to play a Turn 1 or Turn 2 deck, that didn't just rely on Flash + Protean Hulk?
First of all if it's Turn 1 then your ability to use Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger will be impossible in the same turn. With this in mind you'd need to play another enabler.
To combo off you're going to need 2UG + G + U in order for this to work.
So there are a various combinations of cards in the deck that can get you this, but I'll give you one example; Lion's Eye Diamond + Mana Crypt + Lotus Petal + Forest*.
*Forest, meaning any land with Forest type, could be basic or non-basic, or achieved through a fetch land, etc.
Before we go further you can see that with the deck configuration of having at least 6 one drop mana creatures, you're far more likely to be better off not playing zero costing creatures, like Memnite, Ornithopter, etc, just for the sake of winning on Turn 1..in my humble opinion
But it's also not impossible to get a Turn 1 win with casting a One Drop creature + Concordant Crossroads + Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Your starting hand would have to be something like this; Lion's Eye Diamond + Mana Crypt + Lotus Petal + Elvish Spirit Guide + Forest + One Drop creature + Concordant Crossroads.
In conclusion
If you wanted the deck to have a potential Turn 1 that didn't just rely on Flash + Protean Hulk win then you'd need to add Copperhorn Scout and a bunch of Zero costing creatures (i.e. Memnite, Ornithopter, etc).
Theoretically you can win on Turn 2 without needing to add anything else to the deck.
Both of these require winning by sequencing into Protean Hulk and having a method of winning immediately after sacrificing it.
Play any non-legendary Simic creature as your "commander" with Prime Speaker Vannifar
Prime Speaker Vannifar has this ornate ability to search for any creature in your deck, and be able to chain into it from any converted mana cost creature if you structure the deck a certain way.
So although she cost four mana, you can easily use her to play out much higher costing creatures, and indeed she gives you access to non-legendary creatures and legendary creatures in an extremely efficient manner.
If you've had your eye on a particular creature in Simic that you've wanted to build around, but because they were non-legendary couldn't focus on it too much, well now you can.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary has been the closest to being able to do this sort of thing for you in the past. But the difference between needing to cast it or just putting into play is where the real difference is. Momir also requires multi colored creatures least you need a way to draw the creatures as well. Too slow is the answer to really have used him truly effectively in a manner where you can fully concentrate on a particular creature in your deck as the central part of your strategy.
So in this respect, if you wanted to focus on a particular creature or even set of creatures for your deck, Prime Speaker Vannifar can truly act as a proxy for builds that you've imagined or now yet to imagine.
Now some of you will still be confused at what I'm trying to portray. I don't just mean you have a better chance at said creatures because they are good in your deck, I mean you can really build around a particular creature(s).
Maybe you really want to push Cold-Eyed Selkie as a key card in your deck. So making sure you have cards that give your opponents islands will be good. Then you're happy to play pump spells, as you get rewarded. A Giant Growth becomes an Ancestral Recall, just as Richard Garfield intended.
If you can see what I'm getting at, normally you can't put too many cards that would be focused on non-commander creatures, as you rely on drawing them in your 99, so is too inconsistent to be able to build around. But now you have a way to follow your desires more on focused non-legendary creature builds.
Another example is more like a suite of creatures with "top of library" playing creatures;
Now we can also use Prime Speaker Vannifar to get back any of the card(s) in the face of removal.
You can sequence into Eternal Witness, etc. Or in this instance you might want to put all your creatures back into your library.
With Loaming Shaman can look to put them back into your library so that you can sequence back into them.
It's all going to come down to if you have other untappers for Prime Speaker Vannifar in order for getting them back straight away or needing to use a graveyard retrieval/shuffle back into library sequence first.
Now there are stipulations. How much converted mana cost the creature is matters. The higher the converted mana cost, the more cards you need in the deck to sequence up into. Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger, Bounding Krasis, Fatestitcher, Tidewater Minion, Great Oak Guardian, Patron of the Orochi, are some examples at each converted mana cost.
You can see that there is no creature that can untap Vannifar at Seven converted mana cost. So although you can sequence into a Seven costing creature, without another way to untap Vannifar, you can't then go into an Eight Drop creature. The same with Nine all the way up. In this respect Seven Drop creatures are the limit if you didn't want to have to wait another turn without another untapper.
Let's say your deck is focused on Sages of the Anima turning Brainstorm into looking at the top 9 cards of your library. Each cantrip digging you super far into your deck.
But this means taking up more slots in your deck for redundancy.
So an alternative method is that you can use Loaming Shaman to shuffle your previous chaining creatures back into your library.
The disadvantage with this is that unless you have a way to untap Vannifar, you'll have to wait another turn to get Sages of the Anima back into play.
So the trade off is how many cards you slot in for Prime Speaker Vannifar redundancy versus waiting a turn.
If you are looking at a higher converted mana creature, for example Scourge of Fleets, then now you are looking at quite a few creatures to chain up into it. Building redundancy just to chain into it, starts becoming a lot of slots, that otherwise you might want to dedicate to the theme of your deck.
So in this respect, I feel like the higher the converted mana cost, the more likely it is you'll play Loaming Shaman as your means of recycling your chaining creatures.
If your focus creature dies, then it's easy enough to just get it back with say Sylvan Hierophant or Eternal Witness, to cast it from your hand. But in this respect maybe part of the appeal is that you don't normally have to cast it with Prime Speaker Vannifar powerful ability, so the preference is to shuffle your chaining sequences back into your library regardless.
It's going to come down to how much it costs to cast, versus maybe having to wait another turn(s) to get it back into play. The thing is that you can probably choose the preference depending on how the game is shaping up anyway.
Whoa, what's going on here? Well now there is even the argument that you can play her instead of some legendary creatures, that you might ordinarily play in your command zone.
The reasons are two fold. At four mana she can be much cheaper to cast. Another reason is that she gives access to "signature creatures" for particular builds.
Let's take Experiment Kraj as our first example. At Six mana it's a potential full two turn slower to get it into play. Maybe this is the reason you've been wary about truly building a focus deck around it.
So it's possible to get it out early with Prime Speaker Vannifar as your actual commander at just four mana.
Now on subsequent turns, you can look to get your most synergistic cards for the build as well.
You can even setup Experiment Kraj to have Prime Speaker Vannifar ability.
Now what about removal?
Well where do opponents aim one-for-one removal? Kraj or Vannifar?
Rock-and-a-hard-place for opponent to decide on that, and this is where you can be advantage that if they get rid of Kraj, then Vannifar can just get Kraj back again with shenanigans.
So then they need to remove Vannifar, and then you're just left with Kraj, which is your whole aim.
When mass removal happens, then it's no different to having to cast Kraj for 8 mana normally, but with Vannifar you just need 6 mana to start setting up again.
It's a very interesting proposal for alternative ways to approach deck making in Simic from now on in my opinion.
Costing a full 3 mana less than Tishana, Voice of Thunder is certainly appealing and your ability to setup a creature base before hand with Prime Speaker Vannifar makes for far more consistent build in my opinion.
Paying for commander tax can be better mitigated. Normally if your plan is to have Prime Speaker Zegana or Tishana, Voice of Thunder go back to your commander zone for recasting, then you'll need to obviously pay more.
But with Prime Speaker Zegana ability to sacrifice, you can send these guys to your graveyard, shuffle them back in and then get them back into play at literally no mana cost if you get an engine going.
It's a different approach for sure, but has a huge upside.
But my point is that you don't have to just think about builds around non-legendary, certainly there are some cases where legendary creatures that you'd normally have in your command zone are better off in your 99 with Prime Speaker Vannifar at the helm instead.
If you're playing Prime Speaker Vannifar, why not just focus your build around her?
There will be some creative deck builders who will get exactly what I mean, and their will be some who will be confused at this idea.
I'll just leave it to you what you can take out of this post.
"It’s not enough to defeat our foes. We must learn from them, too."
—Vannifar
There is absolutely no doubt that she is a top tiered commander on arrival.
This complied list I think is pretty accurate for ranking the commanders => http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/
With Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Captain Sisay ranked in this list at "Maximum Power", there is no doubt that she has just as much potential as them. Let's just say what if these guys had access to Blue? Yeah yikes.
Do I think she will get banned?
Honestly I don't think so. The precedence for Four Drop commanders along side Zur the Enchanter, Captain Sisay, Arcum Dagsson, to name a few, gives the feeling that even with her power level, she still "dies to Doom Blade" and specifically requires a full turn to activate, giving opponents a window of opportunity to interact.
The exception to this rule is Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, but at two mana, he just proved to provide too much mana consistently with giving you access to 6 mana Turn 3 by just playing Forests and him.
1.) Compact Win Condition
Trying to keep the number of cards dedicated to actually winning with Prime Speaker Vannifar at a minimum. This allows for more disruption and mana acceleration and draw in general, while keeping the actual cards you can cast to a minimum.
It's a pretty fair assessment that most times that you get to activate Prime Speaker Vannifar that you're likely to get a combo win. So it's more about "how do you get to that point?", with other decks having their own quick combos and disruption. Disruption can be in the form of many things, like removal, Stax, counterspells, on-board hate.
That's 6 cards for the combo, and if you're able to sequence it without needing anything else then it requires 4 and 3 lands in play as a minimum.
What makes it very efficient is that if you have a lot of these cards in your hand or graveyard at the time you want to combo, then it is fairly easy to navigate around it with support cards.
If you have Thousand-Year Elixir in your hand, then you can just cast it, which is even nicer if you pre cast it the turn before you play Prime Speaker Vannifar, allowing to hold up more mana to protect what you're doing.
Same with Trophy Mage in your hand, you can just cast it to get the Thousand-Year Elixir. It will probably slow you down by a turn, as you need to cast both of them, as opposed to just putting the Trophy Mage into play.
Then if either of those are in your graveyard you can just Prime Speaker Vannifar into Eternal Witness instead as your 3 converted mana cost creature.
It's basically the same but will end up costing you an extra G.
If you have Fatestitcher in your graveyard, then you will need another way to untap Vannifar, otherwise it is a sticking point.
If you have Peregrine Drake in your hand then you can cast it, and because it untaps lands, it is one of the better pieces of the combo pieces to cast from your hand.
If you have Peregrine Drake in your graveyard then you will need another way to untap Vannifar, otherwise it is a sticking point.
You also need some other Five Drop creature and I've seen a lot of list that don't, so this is a fail point for those builds.
If you have Deadeye Navigator in your hand, then casting it is pretty slow, and you still need 1U to activate it's ability so likely going to need a couple of turns to use it.
Your potential better option is to get Elvish Piper as your Four Drop and you can put the Deadeye Navigator into play for G. If you have enough mana you can soulbond it to Prime Speaker Vannifar which can can activate for 1U to get another activation so you can sacrifice the Elvish Piper to get Peregrine Drake. This will give you the combo.
So on top of the 4 for the Thousand-Year Elixir, you'll need 1GU as well if wanting to combo in a single turn, so 5GU.
If Body Double is in your hand then you'll need to cast it, so unlikely you'll have the mana for it in the same turn you cast Thousand-Year Elixir. So probably will have to wait a turn, and you can only cast it after you have got Peregrine Drake or Deadeye Navigator in your graveyard.
What the alternative line is to use another creature in play to sacrifice into Selvala, Heart of the Wilds instead, giving you another way to get infinite mana paired with Deadeye Navigator.
You can always use Prime Speaker Vannifar ability to sacrifice a Two Drop to get Eternal Witness to return these cards to your hand, but that normally implies another full turn, unless you have an untapper. Fatestitcher and Peregrine Drake are fine to return to your hand as they are not hard to deploy, but Body Double isn't the greatest to return to your hand either, needing to cast it is slow going.
A couple of cards that are being tested to get you out of the fail point situations are, Whirlpool Rider for when you have cards in your hand, and Nantuko Tracer for cards in your graveyard.
This obviously requires a setup and likely if you don't have a way to untap Vannifar, you'll have to spend a turn sacrificing a One Drop to get either of these if the situation requires it. You might have drawn them so give you a possible outlet this way as well. Noxious Revival is another way of getting cards from your graveyard back into your library.
2.) Alternative Win Conditions
There is an inherit need to have some sort of alternative way of winning, as a very likely scenario is when Prime Speaker Vannifar herself has been shut out of the game. Whether that is due to removal and commander tax being too high to recast her, or hate cards shutting off her abilities.
If Prime Speaker Vannifar has been shut out you can still aim for Peregrine Drake and Deadeye Navigator to get you infinite mana. However it's still not that simple, Prime Speaker Vannifar normally allows you to search for win conditions as well. Getting infinite mana needs something to do with it. Deadeye Navigator can pair with a number of creatures, but so far the options are pretty slim in cEDH lists.
Whirlpool Rider will allow you to keep cycling cards in your hand till you get something(s) that will allow you to go further.
Spellseeker should be powerful enough to get you a winning hand.
Eternal Witness should also give you more times than not a way to win by getting back all your cards from graveyard and infinitely casting them.
You can see at this stage that Deadeye Navigator is 100% required to win through all the combos.
So some alternative win conditions are trying to be tested and established.
This is where nothing has really come out yet as "What is the best alternative?".
If Gaea's Cradle produces at least 4 mana, then you can combine with Peregrine Drake to keep returning and casting it to get infinite mana. You will need 5 lands as well.
You can do the same with any creature that also produces enough mana to activate Temur Sabertooth and recast it, with mana left over. But you will also need to be able to give the creature haste.
You want to find a balance of having win conditions that synergies within the rest of the cards in your deck, while also still being able to play around a few hate cards that might be shutting off Prime Speaker Vannifar.
At this stage I'm going to say that there is no consensus on what is the best alternative ways to win.
How about having no Protean Hulk wins?
It's a very interesting trade off. Often the question is "What is your plan if Prime Speaker Vannifar has been locked out?".
Protean Hulk lines have the advantage with untap spells like Vitalize or Dramatic Reversal to be very mana efficient with mana creatures.
With the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir you're always resigned to 4, which is fine, but leaving up mana to protect what you're doing is more optimal.
This also means that Hall of the Bandit Lord probably can't be used in a Peregrine Drake/Deadeye Navigator only build, as you're likely to incur too much damage as a result of using it as your only means of winning.
But having compact win package means that you get to play a lot of additional ways to speed up the deck, as well as have additional ways to disrupt your opponents, as well as additional ways to protect what you're doing.
So it's a very fair call to say that sure you can try to cover as many different ways to win when you get to activate Prime Speaker Vannifar, but really is the more important question is how do you make sure you get to do that?
For example let's say you are playing the most compact version of win conditions. You might find that 7/10 games once you get to use her, you end up winning the game with a combo. But 3 times you end up having to wait a turn or whatever because of cards in hand/graveyard, and you only got to win 1 of those because the extra turn didn't matter. This might be over the course of 12 games, for an 8/12 record.
Then you could have a deck that has 10/10 record for getting the win with Prime Speaker Vannifar when you get to activate her.
But the reality is that this might be over 20 games, where opponents just win before you can cast her or remove her before you get to use her.
Maybe you have a record of 12/20 because you get do easier alternative win conditions as well, like Flash + Hulk.
But over the course of more games you're more likely to win more games being consistent with mana acceleration, disruption and protection. You will have some #feelsbad-not-to-combo games, but this is just the trade off.
These were made up speculative numbers, but it's about making the judgement call that you are better off to not win sometimes with awkward draws, versus the consistency of getting her into play and activating her.
3.) Creatures matter and Two Drops are perfect
One thing when you are looking to combo is that really the optimal thing is to sacrifice a Two Drop to then get Trophy Mage. Sure you can go into Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger, but the reality is that you want 3 lands in play. In what are already land light builds, hitting 5 consecutive lands isn't always a possibility. Returning a land can be optimal for playing a land for the turn, but if you had to sequence through Scryb Ranger that is going to delay you until Turn 4 to win, and then if you have to go through Quirion Ranger, then that will be Turn 5 at the earliest, unless you have some sort of way to play out extra lands like Exploration or Azusa, Lost but Seeking.
Actually having a creature to sacrifice to Prime Speaker Vannifar is no trivial matter, when you might be using your creatures in some manner.
So with this in mind any cEDH still requires a sizable threshold of creatures to be consistent at being able to start to combo chain.
For this reason having too many non-creature spells can be detrimental. Certainly I've had games where I've wanted my disruptive instants to have just been a creature.
For the same reason that Two Drops are really the best at starting a chain, some extra weight can be put on creatures that normally are considered inferior purely on ability to cost.
For example Sylvan Ranger would normally be superseded by Sakura-Tribe Elder, but there is an upside to getting a resource and being able to sacrifice to Prime Speaker Vannifar.
In conclusion
The whole point of this primer (the entire content) is just to get ALL the ideas out there. It's not for me to decide what's best, but I do have my own opinions on what are correct lines of play.
With that said however, I'm inclined to make sure that people can read this primer and feel that they can get a fair representation of what the wider community might be doing.
It's very early days for this commander, so as it should flux with potential new lines of winning, new innovations, and entirely new approaches.
What my job is to do, is to try and keep anybody who is interested in developments updated as much as my knowledge is at the current time.
The main way of winning with the deck is to get Prime Speaker Vannifar into play and then use her ability to start chaining up and getting multiple creatures into play, using some very specific sequences of creatures.
Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain
This method requires 4 to combo;
1.) Tap Vannifar to sacrifice Two Drop creature into -> Trophy Mage getting Thousand-Year Elixir
Once you have infinite mana, you can soulbond the Body Double as one of the Two Drop creatures and chain into Spellseeker or Eternal Witness. Spellseeker can get all your instant and sorcery two or less mana. The main aim is to exile your opponents libraries by using Reality Shift to continuously keep exiling the newly created manifested creatures.
Once your opponents have no cards in library, they will die in their draw steps.
There are ways to use additional untappers to help when combo creatures are in your hand or graveyard.
The main idea is that you can use the untap cards to get an additional use out of Prime Speaker Vannifar, so that you might be able to mitigate a step or creature in the combo chain.
Putting cards back into library from graveyard
You might have a key combo card in your graveyard. You can use additional untap sources on Prime Speaker Vannifar, so that she can search for potential creatures that can help you put them back into your library or hand.
There are a number of ways to do this.
You can use an additional creature and untapper to put a card back into library from graveyard by chaining into Spellseeker getting Noxious Revival.
-OR-
You can also use Nantuko Tracer to put a card back into your library.
-OR- Timetwister can be used to shuffle your graveyard and hand back into your library. So you can use this if you've got more than one combo card that you want to search up with Prime Speaker Vannifar. You can use Spellseeker to get Mystical Tutor, which then can be used to get Timetwister. Unless you have draw card, you'll have to wait a turn, but you'd probably be having to anyway, unless you have an untapper.
Putting cards back into library from hand
Similar to cards in graveyard, you can use additional untap sources on Prime Speaker Vannifar, so that she can search for potential creatures that can help you put them back into your library.
There are a number of ways to do this.
You can use an additional creature and untapper to shuffle cards that are in your hand back into your library with Whirlpool Rider. There is a chance that you might draw some of them again due to the random nature, but certainly an option, especially if you've drawn too many of them.
-OR-
You can also use additional untappers to untap Elvish Piper to put multiple combo creatures into play if they are in your hand.
-OR-
You can also use additional untappers to chain into Spellseeker to get Brainstorm to put combo creature cards back in your library.
When combo cards get exiled
OMG, I can't believe it got exiled! Some people play Riftsweeper as a backup plan for if key combo cards get exiled, but honestly you can work around elements with some knowledge of how the deck works.
I've detailed what your alternatives are for cards below.
If Peregrine Drake has been exiled then Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is the backup plan.
It depends potentially on what you might have setup already but use the following sequence as a guideline.
This method requires 4G for the first turn, then 2UGG for the next turn.
Because you don't need 3 lands in play, Scryb Ranger or Kiora's Follower will be the optimal Two Drop creatures as you can use them instead of needing the 1U for exiling Prime Speaker Vannifar at Step 10).
If Deadeye Navigator has been exiled (by opponents) then it's impossible to get infinite's. But due to the ability of Deadeye Navigator being able to exile itself in response to remove at instant speed, it's one of the least likely to be removed like this. Opponents could get you in response to activating the ability while you are tapped out, but I feel that opponents would have most likely used spot removal on Prime Speaker Vannifar instead if doing the combo lines.
There is a case where it might get put into your graveyard and exiled via Deathrite Shaman, etc.
But I feel that using a card like Riftsweeper as a backup to this is such a corner case most games, that you're better off resigning to a loss, rather than taking up a slot that could otherwise help you win a lot more games.
If Eternal Witness has been exiled then you can use Nantuko Tracer as a substitute. The idea is that when you have infinite triggers with Deadeye Navigator, you can keep putting the Reality Shift back into your library and keep (re)searching it back with Spellseeker. So you can just keep looping.
If Spellseeker has been exiled, then it's going to depend on what cards you've drawn already.
But you should be able to search for Selvala, Heart of the Wilds and you can keep exiling the Deadeye Navigator, and most cEDH games the 5 power is going to be enough to be the highest power on the table, so you'll be able to draw a card each time, allowing you to draw your deck, etc.
Comprehensive list of cards in the deck, and further interactions that I might not have detailed in the strategy section.--------------------------------------------
Card-by-card analysis
Creature untappers Quirion Ranger - This is our only One Drop creature that allows untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar when you want to trade up creatures. Note that the only Zero Drop creatures in the decks are lands, so it's not often that you'll be sequencing into this creature.
Scryb Ranger - This is our only Two Drop creature that allows untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar when you want to trade up creatures and don't have haste enablers.
With Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger abilities to return a Forest to untap a creature, you can use them with mana creatures to generate more mana. Even potentially when you don't have a land drop in hand for the turn, returning the Forest will help with making that land drop for additional mana.
I explain the importance of having potential additional untappers for Prime Speaker Vannifar in the strategy section, which you can click here for details.
Kiora's Follower - Notably not used for any of the combo chains as you need a haste enabler. But with haste you can look to use this as a means to trade up instead of Scryb Ranger.
Great as a mana creature as well as it can just untap a land.
Fatestitcher - A key combo card for our Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
But it's also a way to get multiple creatures into play for any type of trading up.
Thousand-Year Elixir - Very much a pseudo haste enabler for just activated abilities, which is really the only important element, as we are not looking to have haste creatures for attacking.
Obviously a key card for the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
But it can also be used to untap Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Priest of Titania or even Voyaging Satyr/Kiora's Follower if wanting to untap a land.
Further combo or toolbox creatures Spellseeker - Literally one of the most important creatures in the deck, this is used to get Vitalize, Dramatic Reversal or Crop Rotation for particular combo chains.
If you already have these spells in your hand, then you can always look to get some disruption instead in the form of a counter spell or permanent removal.
Trophy Mage - The key card to the..well you guessed it Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
There isn't actually another three mana cost artifact in the deck, so there is some argument to having something else in there in times you want to cast/chain for some other value.
Eternal Witness - A key card that can be chained into with Prime Speaker Vannifar if needing to get back other combo cards especially. Opponents can only tend to slow you down a turn if they have removal or counterspell something that is not Vannifar, as you can use Vannifar to get Eternal Witness to return that card back straight away. A very potent element to being able to tool-box in the deck.
Elvish Piper - Is mainly used as a backup plan if you have certain higher casting creatures in your hand, that you might have been looking to search with Prime Speaker Vannifar in the first place.
Body Double - A key card in Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
It's such a unique ability in general, but especially in blue color pie. It does become reasonable awkward if you have it in your hand at the time you want to combo with certain lines, and shuts down lines completely if it's gone to your graveyard or exile. But luckily we have plenty of other ways to win.
Peregrine Drake - Part of our Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Note that with Gaea's Cradle you can potentially gain mana with additional creatures in play.
Deadeye Navigator - Part of the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir combo chain, which you can click here for exact sequencing.
Protection Savage Summoning - Being able to get Prime Speaker Vannifar into play just before your turn is invalable to surprising opponents, who might tap out because they think they are safe for a turn. Makes them uncounterable as well.
Vines of Vastwood - Great at protecting your creatures, especially Prime Speaker Vannifar for G. I've also selected it for the kicker, as you can potentially use it to give Selvala, Heart of the Wilds extra power for more mana, if needing to produce lots of mana outside of the usual combo. Additional untappers will mean you can generate extra mana.
Disruptive/protection creatures Sylvan Safekeeper - An excellent creature to protect your combos. Sacrificing a land isn't the greatest, but it's still better than perhaps spending an additional turn and waiting for an extra 2 for the commander tax for Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Spellskite - Another protective creature that can even defend your Thousand-Year Elixir if removal is sent at it. Two Drop creatures are perfect for starting combo chains as well.
Gilded Drake - A catch all for stopping opponents commander or other problematic creatures, and even an answer for opponents stealing Prime Speaker Vannifar, which makes playing otherwise very difficult.
Scavenging Ooze - Two Drop creature that can disrupt graveyard strategies.
Phyrexian Revoker - Two Drop creature that can stop a number of game winning abilities.
Stern Proctor - Two Drop creature that can return a potential hate artifact or enchantment that maybe stopping you from winning.
Putting cards back in library Brainstorm - Perfect for putting key combo creature cards you have in your hand back into your library for searching with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Whirlpool Rider - Can be used to put key creature combo cards back into library, or even if you're looking for a different hand to perhaps protect what you're doing or want to disrupt opponents.
Graveyard Retrieval Noxious Revival - You can use this to put a key combo card back on top of library to either draw it, or perhaps be searched with Prime Speaker Vannifar. Note the Spellseeker can search for it,
Nantuko Tracer - A unique creature for the deck int that you can use Prime Speaker Vannifar to search for it, perhaps in order to put a key combo card back into your library.
Haste Concordant Crossroads - With your mana creatures you can really look to get an explosive start, and with Prime Speaker Vannifar being such a fast to win deck, giving your opponents the ability to have haste as well, honestly isn't much of a downside, as you'll only give them a small window of opportunity to interact.
Mystical Tutor - Give you access to your disruption and protection suite.
The card disadvantage can be mitigated if you go for Timetwister.
Worldly Tutor - Because the creature base has a toolbox of abilities is good to have access to them if you don't have access to Prime Speaker Vannifar being online.
Can be used simply to get a creature to start a combo chain in the first place, but gives you access to creatures that can help out the situations at hand.
Draw Mystic Remora - Can draw you a lot of cards in cEDH games.
Sylvan Library - Perennial all star. You can even make sure you don't draw your creature combo cards, putting them back on top of library.
Timetwister - Great for potentially shuffling back key combo cards that might have gone to your graveyard back into your library. The same for key creature combo cards in your hand that you'd prefer back in your library so that Prime Speaker Vannifar can search for them. You can't guarantee that you'll not draw them or others that you'd prefer in your library, but it is a great back up card, and overall very powerful, especially if your opponent(s) have out card advantaged, and then you can look to equalize.
Further theorycrafting card choices
There is a pretty solid core of cards that are being used for cEDH Prime Speaker Vannifar builds currently from my experience.
I might not be aware of some unique builds out there but on the whole many of the submitted lists are showing up around the same, but for a few choices.
Most list are going to have less than 10 cards differences, if not more like 5.
So I'm just going to talk about those few choices and the potential benefits and mistakes of some of them. Most of them are all fine solid choices, and just come down to personal preference.
But I'm also going to talk about some cards that are in most lists, but I feel are overrated in context to the rest of the deck. And why I personally choose to play different cards, that do not show up in other lists.
So if you can imagine the core of deck are established, but you might be looking for example around fitting around 5 of the above cards as your final slots.
Discount the lands for that count.
From the fluctuating list I'm personally playing Beast Within, Timetwister, Misdirection.
Now honestly I think a lot of people are just not playing Timetwister due to price, and actually this is not even necessarily a mistake not playing it. It has potential benefits, but it is nowhere near required like it is for storm builds. Like I might even cut it from my list to better the deck as it does have situational downsides as well. If you don't want to splash the cash, do not feel like the deck suffers.
Now these cards show up in most deck lists, but I am not personally playing; Utopia Sprawl, Wild Growth.
So why not play Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth?
Well my personal preference is to play Voyaging Satyr and Devoted Druid as mana accelerates instead for this particular build. I like to play creatures that can start a chain over many other type of additional mana sources.
The difference between one mana and two mana, is a factor. So I'm not going to say one is absolutely better than the other, but that's my stance on it at the moment. I'd prefer to potentially be a bit slower at the rate of more success with creature thresholds. It's not always about starting with one creature, you can ease the burden of awkward situations with additional creatures to sacrifice to Prime Speaker Vannifar.
I think the correct amount of lands to play is 31, mainly due to the combo needing 3 lands in play. Skimping on this can only be justified I think if you playing land ramp, like Nature's Lore or Three Visits. I could see the trade in of these cards for a land slot.
This also leads into what is happening with card choices due to needing 3 lands in play. Some cards are being left out, specifically Sylvan Safekeeper and Mox Diamond.
Not playing Sylvan Safekeeper is a mistake. I cannot stress the importance of having an ability available to you, versus actually needing to use it. I think the misconception comes from the fact that people think that people will just fire off their removal spells into the Sylvan Safekeeper ability. This is not the case. People are reluctant to use a removal spell even if it does mean being down a land. Unless the opponents are talking among themselves, giving away that several removal spells can be targeted at your creatures, then often the removal is left stranded in their hands.
The other thing is that you'd prefer to be a land down anyway, even if it puts you on two lands, then have to find the additional 2 commander tax and spend an entire turn re-casting Prime Speaker Vannifar.
The math and psychology works in Sylvan Safekeeper favor.
I can see that Siren Stormtamer is a potentially good protection creature as well, but needing to hold up the U is a big difference and you can only use it once. But I certainly see it's potential benefits.
This card looks much better in theory, than it actually is at making your deck stronger. Of course it's nice to have some infallible way of covering every angle of your combo, but if you read my primer for cEDH you'll see that you have many different ways to navigate around specific cards being exiled. Sure it might require conditional extra resources, or needing a couple of turns to setup instead, but the reality is that Riftsweeper itself is going to require a turn to use (if via Prime Speaker Vannifar). So in that one game in twenty you might use it, you have other options anyway. It's just that you have to think about it more in depth than you normally would.
I feel like this is pretty much a dead card in the majority of your games, where it could easily be something that is useful 100% of your games.
It's just about playing the statistics. Having the one win from it actually being useful in maybe forty games, could have just been a protection card that would win you far more games over the course of your decks lifespan.
Most lists have this gem of a card, because so much of the games come down to a protected Prime Speaker Vannifar. 31 blue cards (or 30 not including the Misdirection) is what my decks runs, and this has always served me well with having the required additional blue card to pitch.
Being able to tap out to cast Prime Speaker Vannifar really is one of your stronger plays you can make, so their are only a few silly souls who fail to see the gain you get. Plus it can be used to counter a counterspell.
Right so if you're going infinite with Peregrine Drake and Deadeye Navigator won't pain lands kill you?
Actually it's pretty unlikely. You only need to generate so much mana, before you can look at alternative lines, getting Selvala, Heart of the Wilds to take over the roles of infinite mana once you have done what you need to get past the first steps.
Chances are you are getting Spellseeker as a first port of call for winning, so you just Green Sun's Zenith for Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. Or even Crop Rotation to swap out the pain land(s).
It's really going to be very few times the actual damage prevents you from comboing off, and color fixing is super important in this deck. More important than you first think. Ancient Tomb is another interesting card for these reasons, but personally I feel the color fixing makes Ancient Tomb far less appealing as a land in the build. But that's not to say that it isn't actually really good.
I want to make it clear that Dryad Arbor is an absolute all-star in my primer build, because of the Vitalize combos, and because I can get combo lines going that don't require 3 lands in play.
However in cEDH builds that only play the Trophy Mage/Thousand-Year Elixir into Peregrine Drake and Deadeye Navigator, the advantages of playing Dryad Arbor are completely lost.
It ends up more or less a tapped land for the purposes of speed of the deck.
You are really unlikely to use it to start your Prime Speaker Vannifar chain, as you would be looking to sequence into Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger. This would put you 3 lands down, and let's be realistic that's not a winning line when you need 3 lands in play.
About the only advantage you might gain is a Green Sun's Zenith for zero. But I feel like for the win percentages, you are going to be slowed down more often, than gain speed because of one spell in the deck.
The reason for this card is that if you have one of your haste cards like Concordant Crossroads, Lightning Greaves or Thousand-Year Elixir already in play, then you can look to cast Prime Speaker Vannifar and win without needing additional untapped mana.
You can chain through your combo, but you need a Three Drop creature to untap Vannifar. Without Vizier of Tumbling Sands, your alternative at Three converted mana cost is Spellseeker getting Green Sun's Zenith, and getting something like Quirion Ranger. But that is 1G and returning a Forest which is not optimal, when you're really hoping to go off by just casting your general. Chances are this two mana difference will mean having to pass the turn, which defeats the purpose of casting Prime Speaker Vannifar in the first place.
Using the cycle ability to untap Vannifar is certainly an option during times when you've not had a clear path of combing due to cards not being available (in hand, graveyard or exiled).
Out of the other fluctuating cards I feel like they are all perfectly reasonable choices, but I'll explain why I prefer to play other cards over them.
Of the other tutors Merchant Scroll and Intuition are very strong, and honestly I think I need to evaluate Intuition specifically for the cEDH build. I literally think I'll make it my next in depth card focus, so I can get a clearer picture for myself and for you.
I personally play Intuition in a lot of decks, but mainly when graveyard synergies are involved, but I need to lay out the specifics for my own personal check list for this deck to decipher what can be done.
Some of the lands that allow you to cast creatures at instant speed are being tested, with Winding Canyons, Alchemist's Refuge. To me I think they will be too slow. Needing the additional 3 mana (they taps themselves) sounds like it's just easier to cast Prime Speaker Vannifar on your own turn and hold up the additional mana for protection/disruption anyway. But I'm happy to be proven otherwise.
If that makes sense you'd only be able to use it with Prime Speaker Vannifar when you have 7 mana at your disposal, in which case I'd prefer color fixing land in general most games, and just cast her for the 4 mana while holding up 3 mana for potential disruption or protection.
It's not quite that simple, holding up 7 mana, means that you can potentially interact even more (cast more spells in response to what opponents are doing), avoid sorcery speed removal. But once again I stress the importance of color fixing to ensuring explosive starts to your game, which is the most likely source of victories.
Forgive me, because I am not used to playing this type of deck, but I have been intrigued by Vannifar (unsure if I'll be building her or putting her in the 99 of my Kraj deck); how do you win?
Forgive me, because I am not used to playing this type of deck, but I have been intrigued by Vannifar (unsure if I'll be building her or putting her in the 99 of my Kraj deck); how do you win?
I'm surprised there's no Elvish Visionary flickering with that infinite mana, especially since its Pod'able into Labman for the win.
Forgive me, because I am not used to playing this type of deck, but I have been intrigued by Vannifar (unsure if I'll be building her or putting her in the 99 of my Kraj deck); how do you win?
You essentially go infinite with Deadeye Navigator and literally combine it with a bunch of creatures, in a single turn. Remember you can get infinite mana from Palinchron.
So you can blink Woodfall Primus infinite times, to remove all opponents non-creature permanents including lands, and just lock them out.
You can also combine with
Forgive me, because I am not used to playing this type of deck, but I have been intrigued by Vannifar (unsure if I'll be building her or putting her in the 99 of my Kraj deck); how do you win?
I'm surprised there's no Elvish Visionary flickering with that infinite mana, especially since its Pod'able into Labman for the win.
There is Coiling Oracle to draw your deck and put all your lands into play. I'm a huge advocate of not needing to play a card like Laboratory Maniac, as once you have access to your deck you can easily lock opponents out, with infinite blinks of all your different 'enter the battlefield' effects. As I've shown in the above post you can really stop them from doing anything.
So keep in mind that one requires passing the turn, and the other requires a sacrifice outlet AND casting another spell.
I looked to fit in these combinations, but in the end they are just a bit clunky.
Now not to say there isn't a method with justProtean Hulk that hasn't been thought about or simply I don't know about? But with Flash + Protean Hulk, I think the cEDH scene will have really tried every avenue to solve that puzzle for Simic.
Now it also must be noted that the sequence from 6 cmc into 7 cmc creatures, doesn't naturally have an untap for Prime Speaker Vannifar. So the biggest problem I had with trying to sequence a SAME TURN win with Protean Hulk is that without a support card, you'd have to pass the turn before being able to sacrifice it or indeed any other creature you have in play. Now if you have another untap support card that hasn't been used for the turn, then that's a different story.
I've decided that Mind Over Matter and Paradox Engine are not really necessary, and just too mana cost expensive anyway.
There is a real need to have as many cheap casting spells for Chakram Retriever to try and combo early, so wanted some mana fixers that are also cheap to cast. Plus you can never have enough creature fodder for Prime Speaker Vannifar to start a chain.
Putting Illusionist's Bracers onto Prime Speaker Vannifar is not that great with my deck configuration. You need 2 creatures in play to sacrifice, which is fine, but really need to make use of each converted cost, that is not untapping. So for example I think it's better if you did have disrupted creatures along the way. If that makes sense Prime Speaker Vannifar ability can only be used at sorcery speed, so if I'm getting two creatures that untap, then one of the untaps would essentially go wasted.
It would help in instances to mitigate awkward moments where you have already used or have one of your untappers in hand, and finding it hard to meet the stipulations.
It does allow you to go infinite with Kiora's Follower, and also Seeker of Skybreak or Aphetto Alchemist along with another source to untap for value.
But for now I think it's going to be overrated for how my deck actually works, and that is to win without it anyway.
Alright had a bit of a paradigm shift in some of the cards. I worked out exactly how you can sequence for a same turn win and it's more a case of having enough mana or mana creatures to help with it. In many ways you can think of this as the same type of scenario as Captain SisayParadox Engine decks, that are limited by your mana available, rather than anything else.
If you literally only have one other creature in play, then you can look to do this exact sequence. It will require 1GGGGGU, but this can be easily mitigate..
At this stage you can get infinite mana using the exile ability of Deadeye Navigator on Palinchron.
You also get infinite Deadeye Navigator activation's on the Eternal Witness, so can get all your creatures back. You can easily cast all the creatures in your deck and have infinite enter the battlefield triggers with them.
With that now clearer for how to win, these are the changes;
I've come to realize that the need for Thornbite Staff or Intruder Alarm in my deck is actually not necessary really. They are great for redundancy, if you've drawn some of your key creatures, if they are in your hand rather than library, which can be an issue.
Panharmonicon is the same in that it gets you value, but doesn't actually help you comboing any more than you normally would. Becomes a 'win more' card, than a true combo card.
So to make the deck a little bit more streamlined to the way my deck works, I've made some more changes.
But I'll make a "resource" section for people who want to know about interactions that can help them with their build. Because there will be people who are looking for more "value" cards or disruption and using Thornbite Staff or Intruder Alarm as their main ways of winning.
The cards I'm adding are purely to help you combo more efficiently and protect your potential to combo. It's very much into the cEDH framework now and resembles a top tier approach like Captain SisayParadox Engine build.
If you check out a pretty accurate source of tiered decks, I feel like this will become a "Maximum Power" once completely tweaked. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/
So with this in mind, it'll pay to have removal that is not creature based. Essentially I was leaning pretty hard on Cyclonic Rift for this sort of thing
It's tempting to have a 9 and 10 converted mana cost creature, so that you can Prime Speaker Vannifar into them, and then Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
The problem I have is that there really aren't any appealing 9 cmc creatures that give you value if you're looking to sacrifice them straight away. Basically none that really provide an 'enter the battlefield' or 'dies' trigger of note.
Then it's not really the sort of deck where you care about attacking with Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre either, so not worth it in the end.
Me posting again. I'm obsessed with this commander and deck. It's honestly like reading Captain Sisay for the first and "things that make you go hmmm".
So still working out a lot of stuff, there is much to think about.
The problem I had with the landfall element with Retreat to Coralhelm or Tideforce Elemental is that you can't mix and match between creatures that have triggers on entering the battlefield and those the trigger on dying.
Specifically you can't go into a creature that only has a dies trigger, if your last creature also didn't have a dies trigger.
You might be even asking why am I bothering with this combination at all, if you can look to sequence a win straight away anyway?
Well there is an element that whoever goes first trying to win the game outright, might run into several other players disrupting it.
So I feel like it's a solid plan to have this line as you can never really feel bad about putting lots of lands into play during a single turn, and this just sets you up so well for the rest of the game. It makes it hard for your opponents to lock you out of casting Prime Speaker Vannifar with commander tax, as you'll have plenty of mana to keep casting her.
If you require another creature to start down the chain, then you can always get Dryad Arbor with Seedguide Ash.
Now you can do the game finishing combo, but will definitely have the mana to cast everything and activate anything you need.
You can still use 'enter the battlefield' creatures to trigger 'landfall' for Retreat to Coralhelm or Tideforce Elemental, but you just have to be aware of how far you can go with it.
So you could easily configure your deck not to have the "dies" creatures that search for lands, or vise versa for 'enter the battlefield'.
But unfortunately for 'enter the battlefield', there are none at the 1 converted mana cost, Coiling Oracle can miss, and then Silverglade Elemental is a little weak.
So personally I like the line of "dies" creatures for more upside.
The reason I have not taken out Wood Elves or Solemn Simulacrum is that they provide some pretty decent value anyway.
[EDIT]
Oh wait there is Wormfang Turtle that will give you a landfall trigger at the three converted mana cost range.
So this can easily be instead of Nissa, Vastwood Seer. It will actually provide you with a mana, so that might be relevant.
~this is what i was planning on doing~ Nissa, Vastwood Seer is used to get a basic forest in case you don't already have a land in hand. The problem with the three slot is that there are no triggers when dies creatures that will allow you to put a land into play.
This way however you can play the land to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar to sacrifice the World Shaper.
If you already have a land in hand for the turn then you can get some other creature at three cmc to help you out.
First of all nice job getting the party started, it's sure to be a long and interesting one, and I congratulate you on the work and love you've already put into this deck.
I feel like Mystic Snake and his new functional reprint should be in here somewhere, as well as maybe even [[Phyrexian Revoker]] if you run a critical mass of 1-drops. Winter Orb seems solid too.
This deck reminds me a lot of Yisan for fairly obvious reasons, you can steal a lot of cards from there, particularly the best parts of the disruption suite. But the commander costing 1 more mana is a huge deal.
I had some ideas for a slightly different build when I was reading your post, one that would be built to play decently without the commander because you can't protect it from interaction by playing it on turn 2 every game. The main difference here would be that you want to cut down the untappers suite to be as slim as it possibly can be, and play more disruption.
I think that Emerald Charm and similar untappers could actually be really good, you can think of them as kind of being like Dark Ritual on steroids in this deck, since they would allow you to fetch something like a Peregrine Drake instead of an untapper, reducing the mana required to combo by pretty much all of it. Speaking of Perigrine Drake and freinds, if you run multiples of them, you can draw one and then you just have to fetch your Deadeye Navigator.
I haven't tested any of this; it's pure speculation at this point. But you can see the beginning of a different take on the deck that might be a more optimal one.
I've been working on a "Casual Play" section that dissects many of the quality creatures and interactions you can look at with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
You can find it under the deck list in the top post.
I've been adding to it for the last couple of days now, but it's in a better state of being complete. It'll always be a work in progress, because there is just so many interactions, but I'm now happy with the content being more finished.
The sections are divided up into; untapping, value, disruption, protection, multiple creatures, creature combinations, tribal.
I haven't even started on creature combinations and tribal yet however.
But if you read this thread before, I might not have started or partly through that section, then it's worth a look through (maybe again) if you're potentially interested in building a Prime Speaker Vannifar deck in the future.
Also I'm going to start working on a "cEDH" section. It's more or less going to be a monologue of my thoughts process towards doing completely broken things with her. Some of the ideas might not be truly good or feasible, but I just want to get everything down that I can think of, particularly combo wise.
I'm really keen to have help on combos, etc, feel free to leave some ideas, interactions, etc.
First of all nice job getting the party started, it's sure to be a long and interesting one, and I congratulate you on the work and love you've already put into this deck.
I feel like Mystic Snake and his new functional reprint should be in here somewhere, as well as maybe even [[Phyrexian Revoker]] if you run a critical mass of 1-drops. Winter Orb seems solid too.
This deck reminds me a lot of Yisan for fairly obvious reasons, you can steal a lot of cards from there, particularly the best parts of the disruption suite. But the commander costing 1 more mana is a huge deal.
I had some ideas for a slightly different build when I was reading your post, one that would be built to play decently without the commander because you can't protect it from interaction by playing it on turn 2 every game. The main difference here would be that you want to cut down the untappers suite to be as slim as it possibly can be, and play more disruption.
I think that Emerald Charm and similar untappers could actually be really good, you can think of them as kind of being like Dark Ritual on steroids in this deck, since they would allow you to fetch something like a Peregrine Drake instead of an untapper, reducing the mana required to combo by pretty much all of it. Speaking of Perigrine Drake and freinds, if you run multiples of them, you can draw one and then you just have to fetch your Deadeye Navigator.
I haven't tested any of this; it's pure speculation at this point. But you can see the beginning of a different take on the deck that might be a more optimal one.
I should definitely be playing the Peregrine Drake. As you say it's just something that you could naturally cast, and chain into Deadeye Navigator. But it also is a backup for Palinchron as you can have this in your hand at the time of wanting to combo.
You've convinced me that I should try at least one more spell for untapping, so I think Mobilize is the next best thing to Vitalize.
The thing with deck is that it need very little mana to operate, basically "Cast Prime Speaker Vannifar" and you're good to go.
So I could see Stax elements being a way to slow down opponents; Null Rod, Trinisphere, Winter Orb.
I've actually added a cEDH section is so these types of things can easily be added to that thread of thinking.
That's a complicated way for the hulk and requires lots of pcs in the deck.
Try this one, most of the pcs are useful on their own too
1: volrath shapeshifter 3 + renegade doppelganger 2 + sidisi's faithful 1
2: body double 5+ dreadnought 1-> sac 2 hulk
3: leveler 5 lab man 3 hapless researcher 1 (sylvan safekeeper 1 alchemist apprentice 2)
In the bracket are optional cards
That's a complicated way for the hulk and requires lots of pcs in the deck.
Try this one, most of the pcs are useful on their own too
1: volrath shapeshifter 3 + renegade doppelganger 2 + sidisi's faithful 1
2: body double 5+ dreadnought 1-> sac 2 hulk
3: leveler 5 lab man 3 hapless researcher 1 (sylvan safekeeper 1 alchemist apprentice 2)
In the bracket are optional cards
Great thanks! I've added it to the cEDH section.
Please if anybody has other lines for anything to do with combos, please leave them, much appreciated.
That's a complicated way for the hulk and requires lots of pcs in the deck.
Try this one, most of the pcs are useful on their own too
1: volrath shapeshifter 3 + renegade doppelganger 2 + sidisi's faithful 1
2: body double 5+ dreadnought 1-> sac 2 hulk
3: leveler 5 lab man 3 hapless researcher 1 (sylvan safekeeper 1 alchemist apprentice 2)
In the bracket are optional cards
Care to explain? Because this makes absolutely no sense to me..
@darren, dropping Dosan? The way I see it, it's a tutorable City of Solitude if you're afraid of interaction when you go off. (I'm thinking of putting BOTH in my Deck, honestly.)
Some of my favorite things to do in Magic are tool-boxing and also exact sequencing for game winning combos. Hello Prime Speaker Vannifar, welcome.
This primer is an ever evolving source of ideas and knowledge for anybody looking to build around her.
This way people are welcome to take away what they feel will better work for the way the want to play her.
There is a dedicated Discord server to discussing Prime Speaker Vannifar on https://discord.gg/VqKku5m
Yes we are serious about this gal!
1 Prime Speaker Vannifar
Combo
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Spellseeker
1 Bounding Krasis
1 Eternal Witness
1 Trinket Mage
1 Trophy Mage
1 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
1 Breaching Hippocamp
1 Fatestitcher
1 Archaeomancer
1 Elvish Piper
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Chakram Retriever
1 Body Double
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Protean Hulk
1 Palinchron
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Vitalize
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
Alternatives
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Dramatic Reversal
1 Birthing Pod
1 Time Warp
Mana acceleration
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Amber
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Arbor Elf
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Kiora's Follower
1 Devoted Druid
1 Priest of Titania
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Pact of Negation
1 Swan Song
1 Dispel
1 Delay
1 Arcane Denial
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Reality Shift
1 Nature's Claim
1 Beast Within
1 Force of Vigor
Disruptive/protection creatures
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Spellskite
1 Gilded Drake
Putting cards back in library
1 Brainstorm
1 Scroll Rack
Haste
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Swiftfoot Boots
Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Crop Rotation
Draw
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sylvan Library
Lands (31)
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Command Tower
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Waterlogged Grove
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Lumbering Falls
1 Mana Confluence
1 City of Brass
2 Island
5 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Treetop Village
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
I've listed them in detail below. They are complex to remember so half of the effort of winning is to know how you should sequence searches with Prime Speaker Vannifar.
Change Log
Just to give an overview of this primer to date, Prime Speaker Vannifar was spoiled on Jan 4 2019, and I started this primer on Jan 5, the day after, so much has changed since my first thread, as I've learned and theorycrafted since then.
My initial deck list had the land ramp combo line included as well. But I moved away from a more casual theme, to being a solid go for the win the same turn you can activate her.
+ Chakram Retriever
+ Tidespout Tyrant
+ Trinket Mage
+ Gitaxian Probe
+ Preordain
+ Mox Amber
Removed
- Flash
- Volrath's Shapeshifter
- Snapcaster Mage
- Sidisi's Faithful
- Grand Architect
- Pili-Pala
+ Force of Vigor
+ Neoform
+ Waterlogged Grove
Removed
- Time Warp
- Preordain
- Forest
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
You might be quite happy just to get one or two activation's out of her for your turns, rather than always going for a one turn combo win. Focused on value or potential answers to what opponents are doing. This is much more of a tool-box style where you search for creatures that are much more suited to the board state or opponents deck archetypes.
What I've done is break down cards into particular groups. On the whole I focus mainly on creatures, as the point of Prime Speaker Vannifar is that she can get you to those creatures. But there are non-creature elements when appropriate to discuss.
Changelog
19-01-2019 - Azusa, Lost but Seeking.
20-01-2019 - Chakram Retriever.
21-01-2019 - Birthing Pod.
23-01-2019 - Timestream Navigator.
25-01-2019 - Arcum Dagsson.
28-01-2019 - Illusionist's Bracers/Rings of Brighthearth.
31-01-2019 - Galvanic Alchemist/Vigean Graftmage.
03-02-2019 - Intruder Alarm/Thornbite staff.
07-02-2019 - Elite Arcanist.
11-02-2019 - Riptide Shapeshifter.
01-03-2019 - Momir Vig, Simic Visionary/Vizier of the Menagerie.
18-04-2019 - Neoform.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
This complied list I think is pretty accurate for ranking the commanders => http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/
With Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Captain Sisay ranked in this list at "Maximum Power", there is no doubt that she has just as much potential as them. Let's just say what if these guys had access to Blue? Yeah yikes.
1 Prime Speaker Vannifar
Combo
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Trophy Mage
1 Fatestitcher
1 Body Double
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
Combo backup
1 Noxious Revival
1 Whirlpool Rider
1 Nantuko Tracer
1 Spellseeker
1 Vizier of Tumbling Sands
1 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
1 Eternal Witness
1 Elvish Piper
Disruptive/protection/utility creatures
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Spellskite
1 Gilded Drake
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Stern Proctor
1 Wirewood Herald
Mana
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Arbor Elf
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Boreal Druid
1 Kiora's Follower
1 Devoted Druid
1 Priest of Titania
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mental Misstep
1 Flusterstorm
1 Swan Song
1 Dispel
1 Delay
1 Arcane Denial
1 Negate
1 Mana Drain
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Force of Will
Protection
1 Savage Summoning
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Misdirection
Removal
1 Nature's Claim
1 Pongify
1 Reality Shift
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Beast Within
1 Force of Vigor
Putting cards back in library
1 Brainstorm
Haste
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Lightning Greaves
Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Draw
1 Mystic Remora
1 Sylvan Library
Lands (31)
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Command Tower
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Mana Confluence
1 City of Brass
4 Island
7 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
Change Log
cEDH Deck Changes
No updates.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm surprised there's no Elvish Visionary flickering with that infinite mana, especially since its Pod'able into Labman for the win.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
So you can blink Woodfall Primus infinite times, to remove all opponents non-creature permanents including lands, and just lock them out.
You can also combine with
You'll also have Glen Elendra Archmage to counter infinite non-creature spells. You can use Spellseeker to get Pact of Negation, Swan Song, Arcane Denial, Force of Will, Cyclonic Rift for further back up.
Cyclonic Rift will allow you to deal with opponents creatures and you should be able to lock them out of playing them again, with the Woodfall Primus destroying mana each turn (lands and artifacts).
It might take some number of turns beating down with a some creatures, but they'll go unopposed.
You can literally put all your lands into play with Coiling Oracle or Ulvenwald Hydra. Coiling Oracle allows you to draw your deck and put all your lands into play.
Eternal Witness or Greenwarden of Murasa allows you to get as many cards back from the graveyard as you want.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
(without Sacrifice Outlet)
1. Pili-Pala + Grand Architect + Walking Ballista + Rootwater Diver
2. Pass Turn > Infinite Mana
(with Sacrifice Outlet)
1. Body Double + Tukatongue Thallid + Ornithopter + Memnite
2. Arcum Dagsson + Vitaspore Thallid
3. Arcum Dagsson -> Paradox Engine
4. Cast spell
5. Arcum Dagsson -> Citanul Flute
6. Citanul Flute -> 0 Drop Creature,
7. 0 Drop Creature, Arcum Dagsson -> Mana Vault
8. Citanul Flute -> Myr Retriever
9. Citanul Flute -> Junk Diver
10. Chain Junk Diver, Myr Retriever for infinite mana
11. Citanul Flute -> Walking Ballista
So keep in mind that one requires passing the turn, and the other requires a sacrifice outlet AND casting another spell.
I looked to fit in these combinations, but in the end they are just a bit clunky.
Now not to say there isn't a method with just Protean Hulk that hasn't been thought about or simply I don't know about? But with Flash + Protean Hulk, I think the cEDH scene will have really tried every avenue to solve that puzzle for Simic.
Now it also must be noted that the sequence from 6 cmc into 7 cmc creatures, doesn't naturally have an untap for Prime Speaker Vannifar. So the biggest problem I had with trying to sequence a SAME TURN win with Protean Hulk is that without a support card, you'd have to pass the turn before being able to sacrifice it or indeed any other creature you have in play. Now if you have another untap support card that hasn't been used for the turn, then that's a different story.
That's why I sequence with Palinchron, as it's a 7 cmc creature that will allow you to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar with Wirewood Lodge or Minamo, School at Water's Edge. As well as the obvious combination of providing infinite mana.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
I also like this list, I haven't had much time to brew but simic good stuff is what I was thinking when I start putting names on paper.
AND Is Illusionist's Bracers not a consideration for your list? Just curious.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
There is a real need to have as many cheap casting spells for Chakram Retriever to try and combo early, so wanted some mana fixers that are also cheap to cast. Plus you can never have enough creature fodder for Prime Speaker Vannifar to start a chain.
I've also added Archaeomancer as another potential untapper using Emerald Charm off Spellseeker.
Also removed Melira, Sylvok Outcast as it was a backup for persist with Glen Elendra Archmage and Woodfall Primus, but I don't actually need it with Deadeye Navigator doing the work.
Added
+ Archaeomancer
+ Birds of Paradise
+ Arbor Elf
Removed
- Melira, Sylvok Outcast
- Mind Over Matter
- Paradox Engine
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
It would help in instances to mitigate awkward moments where you have already used or have one of your untappers in hand, and finding it hard to meet the stipulations.
It does allow you to go infinite with Kiora's Follower, and also Seeker of Skybreak or Aphetto Alchemist along with another source to untap for value.
But for now I think it's going to be overrated for how my deck actually works, and that is to win without it anyway.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
If you literally only have one other creature in play, then you can look to do this exact sequence. It will require 1GGGGGU, but this can be easily mitigate..
This part is really important. If you have a creature(s) that can provide mana, like Dryad Arbor, Treetop Village, Birds of Paradise, Arbor Elf, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves, Joraga Treespeaker, Kiora's Follower, then Vitalize will also untap them, allowing you pay for the sequence.
*This example starts at zero casting cost, just to demonstrate that you can start at any cost for this to work.
1.) Sacrifice 0/1 token into -> Quirion Ranger. Return a Forest to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
2.) Sacrifice Quirion Ranger into -> Scryb Ranger. Return a Forest to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
3.) Sacrifice Scryb Ranger into -> Spellseeker getting Vitalize.
4.) Cast Vitalize to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
5.) Sacrifice into -> Breaching Hippocamp to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
6.) Sacrifice Breaching Hippocamp into -> Mnemonic Wall returning Vitalize.
7.) Cast Vitalize to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
8.) Sacrifice Mnemonic Wall into -> Woodland Bellower searching for Bounding Krasis to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
9.) Sacrifice Bounding Krasis into -> Archaeomancer returning Vitalize.
10.) Cast Vitalize to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
11.) Sacrifice into -> Body Double copying Mnemonic Wall returning Vitalize.
12.) Cast Vitalize to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
13.) Sacrifice into -> Deadeye Navigator. Soulbound to Woodland Bellower.
14.) Exile Woodland Bellower with Deadeye Navigator for 1U.
15.) Woodland Bellower gets Eternal Witness/Skullwinder returning Vitalize.
16.) Cast Vitalize to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar.
17.) Sacrifice Woodland Bellower into -> Palinchron.
At this stage you can get infinite mana using the exile ability of Deadeye Navigator on Palinchron.
You also get infinite Deadeye Navigator activation's on the Eternal Witness, so can get all your creatures back. You can easily cast all the creatures in your deck and have infinite enter the battlefield triggers with them.
With that now clearer for how to win, these are the changes;
Added
+ Mnemonic Wall
+ Vitalize
+ Triton Tactics
+ Elvish Mystic
+ Fyndhorn Elves
+ Llanowar Elves
+ Joraga Treespeaker
Removed
- Emerald Charm
- Seeker of Skybreak
- Aphetto Alchemist
- Volrath's Shapeshifter
- Disciple of the Ring
- Preordain
- Ponder
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
But on the whole, some of the cards that I've specifically put into the deck to search these out, can probably be removed; Noble Benefactor, Drift of Phantasms, Deadeye Quartermaster, Fabricate.
Also on that same vein, the combination of copying Prime Speaker Vannifar with Sakashima the Impostor and Quicksilver Elemental is a little cheesy and actually for the same reasons that Illusionist's Bracers, Mind Over Matter, Paradox Engine are not necessarily needed, probably should not bother with these guys either. Realistically you need haste in order to make them "do their thing" in a timely manner as well.
Panharmonicon is the same in that it gets you value, but doesn't actually help you comboing any more than you normally would. Becomes a 'win more' card, than a true combo card.
So to make the deck a little bit more streamlined to the way my deck works, I've made some more changes.
But I'll make a "resource" section for people who want to know about interactions that can help them with their build. Because there will be people who are looking for more "value" cards or disruption and using Thornbite Staff or Intruder Alarm as their main ways of winning.
The cards I'm adding are purely to help you combo more efficiently and protect your potential to combo. It's very much into the cEDH framework now and resembles a top tier approach like Captain Sisay Paradox Engine build.
If you check out a pretty accurate source of tiered decks, I feel like this will become a "Maximum Power" once completely tweaked.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/
I've tried to be wary of cards that will hose the deck as well; Torpor Orb, Hushwing Gryff, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Aven Mindcensor, Containment Priest.
Even Rest in Peace can cause problems, if trying to sequence with graveyard in mind. You can play around Rest in Peace, but it just means you need the required mana and possible support cards to navigate around it.
So with this in mind, it'll pay to have removal that is not creature based. Essentially I was leaning pretty hard on Cyclonic Rift for this sort of thing
Added
+ Simic Charm
+ Nature's Claim
+ Beast Within
+ Negate
+ Skullwinder
+ Survival of the Fittest
+ Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Removed
- Noble Benefactor
- Drift of Phantasms
- Deadeye Quartermaster
- Fabricate
- Sakashima the Impostor
- Quicksilver Elemental
- Panharmonicon
I went with Simic Charm as a way to remove creatures like Hushwing Gryff, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Aven Mindcensor, Containment Priest.
Admittedly you need to time when you're going to combo with opponents not being able to pay for the flash of Aven Mindcensor and Containment Priest.
But giving your permanents hexproof can be useful as well, and it's a card that can be searched with Spellseeker.
One of the biggest problems with the deck is that you might have one of the cards you want to Prime Speaker Vannifar into in your hand or graveyard.
So with Survival of the Fittest you can discard those creatures to get Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
You can then shuffle them into your library when you discard the Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre also represent removal against hoser cards like Torpor Orb, Hushwing Gryff, in that it's on 'cast trigger'. The deck is very capable of getting 11 mana to cast it as well.
It's tempting to have a 9 and 10 converted mana cost creature, so that you can Prime Speaker Vannifar into them, and then Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
The problem I have is that there really aren't any appealing 9 cmc creatures that give you value if you're looking to sacrifice them straight away. Basically none that really provide an 'enter the battlefield' or 'dies' trigger of note.
Then it's not really the sort of deck where you care about attacking with Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre either, so not worth it in the end.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
So still working out a lot of stuff, there is much to think about.
The problem I had with the landfall element with Retreat to Coralhelm or Tideforce Elemental is that you can't mix and match between creatures that have triggers on entering the battlefield and those the trigger on dying.
Specifically you can't go into a creature that only has a dies trigger, if your last creature also didn't have a dies trigger.
So you can't sacrifice Solemn Simulacrum into Seedguide Ash and untap Prime Speaker Vannifar without some alternative means.
You might be even asking why am I bothering with this combination at all, if you can look to sequence a win straight away anyway?
Well there is an element that whoever goes first trying to win the game outright, might run into several other players disrupting it.
So I feel like it's a solid plan to have this line as you can never really feel bad about putting lots of lands into play during a single turn, and this just sets you up so well for the rest of the game. It makes it hard for your opponents to lock you out of casting Prime Speaker Vannifar with commander tax, as you'll have plenty of mana to keep casting her.
So I've fixed this sequencing by adding some creatures; Wormfang Turtle and World Shaper.
This way you can go; Veteran Explorer -> Primal Druid -> Wormfang Turtle -> World Shaper -> Seedguide Ash -> Ulvenwald Hydra -> Palinchron.
World Shaper does require that you've used a fetch land like; Misty Rainforest, Verdant Catacombs, Windswept Heath, Wooded Foothills, Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta, Scalding Tarn, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, Tolaria West.
You'll get at least 8 extra lands into play during this sequence and then untap 7 of them with Palinchron.
You can get Wirewood Lodge or Minamo, School at Water's Edge with Ulvenwald Hydra and because you get to untap it with Palinchron, that'll give you access to start combing again, by untapping Prime Speaker Vannifar.
If you require another creature to start down the chain, then you can always get Dryad Arbor with Seedguide Ash.
Now you can do the game finishing combo, but will definitely have the mana to cast everything and activate anything you need.
You can still use 'enter the battlefield' creatures to trigger 'landfall' for Retreat to Coralhelm or Tideforce Elemental, but you just have to be aware of how far you can go with it.
For example you could do this;
Coiling Oracle -> Wood Elves -> Solemn Simulacrum.
But once you get to Solemn Simulacrum you need a card like Silverglade Elemental to keep landfall going. But I'm not going to play Silverglade Elemental as it's a high-converted mana cost for only a little value.
Where at least Seedguide Ash has a very high upside.
So you could easily configure your deck not to have the "dies" creatures that search for lands, or vise versa for 'enter the battlefield'.
But unfortunately for 'enter the battlefield', there are none at the 1 converted mana cost, Coiling Oracle can miss, and then Silverglade Elemental is a little weak.
So personally I like the line of "dies" creatures for more upside.
The reason I have not taken out Wood Elves or Solemn Simulacrum is that they provide some pretty decent value anyway.
Added
+ Wormfang Turtle
+ World Shaper
+ Evolving Wilds
+ Terramorphic Expanse
Removed
- Yavimaya Dryad
- Triton Tactics
- Forest
- Island
[EDIT]
Oh wait there is Wormfang Turtle that will give you a landfall trigger at the three converted mana cost range.
So this can easily be instead of Nissa, Vastwood Seer. It will actually provide you with a mana, so that might be relevant.
~this is what i was planning on doing~
Nissa, Vastwood Seer is used to get a basic forest in case you don't already have a land in hand. The problem with the three slot is that there are no triggers when dies creatures that will allow you to put a land into play.
This way however you can play the land to untap Prime Speaker Vannifar to sacrifice the World Shaper.
If you already have a land in hand for the turn then you can get some other creature at three cmc to help you out.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I feel like Mystic Snake and his new functional reprint should be in here somewhere, as well as maybe even [[Phyrexian Revoker]] if you run a critical mass of 1-drops. Winter Orb seems solid too.
This deck reminds me a lot of Yisan for fairly obvious reasons, you can steal a lot of cards from there, particularly the best parts of the disruption suite. But the commander costing 1 more mana is a huge deal.
I had some ideas for a slightly different build when I was reading your post, one that would be built to play decently without the commander because you can't protect it from interaction by playing it on turn 2 every game. The main difference here would be that you want to cut down the untappers suite to be as slim as it possibly can be, and play more disruption.
I think that Emerald Charm and similar untappers could actually be really good, you can think of them as kind of being like Dark Ritual on steroids in this deck, since they would allow you to fetch something like a Peregrine Drake instead of an untapper, reducing the mana required to combo by pretty much all of it. Speaking of Perigrine Drake and freinds, if you run multiples of them, you can draw one and then you just have to fetch your Deadeye Navigator.
I haven't tested any of this; it's pure speculation at this point. But you can see the beginning of a different take on the deck that might be a more optimal one.
From a more casual perspective, Scornful Egotist and Hooting Mandrills could be fun.
edit: wow words
You can find it under the deck list in the top post.
I've been adding to it for the last couple of days now, but it's in a better state of being complete. It'll always be a work in progress, because there is just so many interactions, but I'm now happy with the content being more finished.
The sections are divided up into; untapping, value, disruption, protection, multiple creatures, creature combinations, tribal.
I haven't even started on creature combinations and tribal yet however.
But if you read this thread before, I might not have started or partly through that section, then it's worth a look through (maybe again) if you're potentially interested in building a Prime Speaker Vannifar deck in the future.
Also I'm going to start working on a "cEDH" section. It's more or less going to be a monologue of my thoughts process towards doing completely broken things with her. Some of the ideas might not be truly good or feasible, but I just want to get everything down that I can think of, particularly combo wise.
I'm really keen to have help on combos, etc, feel free to leave some ideas, interactions, etc.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
You've convinced me that I should try at least one more spell for untapping, so I think Mobilize is the next best thing to Vitalize.
The thing with deck is that it need very little mana to operate, basically "Cast Prime Speaker Vannifar" and you're good to go.
So I could see Stax elements being a way to slow down opponents;
Null Rod, Trinisphere, Winter Orb.
I've actually added a cEDH section is so these types of things can easily be added to that thread of thinking.
Added
+ Peregrine Drake
+ Mobilize
Removed
- Genesis
- Dosan the Falling Leaf
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Try this one, most of the pcs are useful on their own too
1: volrath shapeshifter 3 + renegade doppelganger 2 + sidisi's faithful 1
2: body double 5+ dreadnought 1-> sac 2 hulk
3: leveler 5 lab man 3 hapless researcher 1 (sylvan safekeeper 1 alchemist apprentice 2)
In the bracket are optional cards
Please if anybody has other lines for anything to do with combos, please leave them, much appreciated.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
@darren, dropping Dosan? The way I see it, it's a tutorable City of Solitude if you're afraid of interaction when you go off. (I'm thinking of putting BOTH in my Deck, honestly.)
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)