MTG Salvation

Hi everyone, in my group rule is not to play infinite combos and that's why the main wincoin most Jarad decks run is out of option which personally I don't mind that much cause I feel Jarad can be very viable without it too as he is strong commander by himself with good mana/land ramp colors.

He is hard to balance thou, and I'd like to start from the beginning as I'm not yet satisfied with how I've build it so far even thou that might be also because I misplay alot since I've mostly played quite different commander decks so far ( Odric, Saint Geist, Jhoira weatherlight captain..)

I'd like to focus on him being the huge burn damager with his effect and also playing on torment of hailfire cause I feel like this card is very powerful in multiplayer commander, especially if you can produce tons of mana.
Because of that I'm running Urborg, Cabal Coffers, Cabal Stronghold even thou it is not mono-black deck and its viability is slightly lessened.

lets start by naming cards that are a must in deck:
1. Skullclamp - great draw engine
2. Lord of Extinction - main huge fat monster threat this deck can produce
3. Nighthowler - another one of potential fatties, versatile as you can play it to enchant a creature already in play
4. Bonehoard - and final fatty, very versatile card and can be used more times as long as this artifact is not destroyed.
5. Svoghthos, the restless tomb - and final fatty, filling the place of lands for a suprise use. Having 4 fatties I think is more than enough, you don't wanna be stacked with them early in the game and with tons of dredge, tutoring, revival and recovery, we will stumble upon one of them when needed.
6. Sol ring - even thou we are hungry for green and black, there's rarely a situation sol ring's double colorless mana wouldn't have a place in any deck, for now it stays
7. Torment of Hailfire - huge threat once you get to acquire tons of mana, either burns everyone to low life or destroys their field.
8. Cabal coffers - now to get to that mana, I think having cabal coffers + urborg would make it much more easier even thou its optimal to run this land in mono-black decks I suppose ? Would you add Cabal Stronghold too or is it not worthy ?
9. Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
10. Journey to Eternity - i really love this card, instant reanimation once equiped creature dies, tranforms to land that gives me more mana and makes a permanent revival source

OK, I'll stop here to hear some thoughts and reflect upon them

DECKLIST, as requested, hope you guys will find it easier to help me with the deck now

It’ll probably be easier for people to give input if you provide your full list so we know what you’re running and what could be improved.

Im actually working on a list myself. I could post it when I'm done if you want.
Its essentially a creature heavy dredge deck that wants to use Jarad to sac fat dudes like Golgari Grave-Troll and Centaur Vinecrasher

Edit: Also, I'm not personally doing this cause my deck is more for fun casual games, but otherwise you can do some mean stuff with Hatred and Wall of Blood

Quote from DeadPresident2910 »

It’ll probably be easier for people to give input if you provide your full list so we know what you’re running and what could be improved.

Maybe, but I'd like to go slow way and not auto-include, I want to see what people think is a must include !

Quote from FearDReaper »

Im actually working on a list myself. Ill try to post it when I'm done
Its essentially a creature heavy dredge deck that wants to use Jarad to sac fat dudes like Golgari Grave-Troll and Centaur Vinecrasher

Ok, let me know when you're done. About those 2 cards, as you can see from my reasoning, I kinda don't want to include any more fatty-potential cards, maybe just golgari-grave troll since he had that dredge 6 in him, which can be good at times, but mostly you do want to draw a card from my experience.

Centaur is decent if you go the dredge route like I am cause you can play/sac him over and over thanks to him returning to your hand whenever you dredge a land. It might be a bit slow though so do what feels right

Personally, I'm not a fan of cards like Lord of Extinction, Nighthowler, or even Bonehoard, and I don't run them in my Jarad deck. They're big... and that's it. They can be chump blocked by 0/1 goats all day long, they don't actually do anything without Jarad, and gravehate (like Rest in Peace) shuts them down completely.

I prefer fatties that can be aggressive in their own right or that do something in addition to being fat. Also, undercosted fatties because you want mana open to sac them to Jarad.
Artisan of Kozilek - Counter-resistant reanimate, 10 power, Annihilator. This is a must-answer card that Jarad loves to sac.
Doomgape - 10/10 trample does a lot of damage. Acts as a secondary sac outlet for some cards, and can gain a significant amount of life.
Ghalta, Primal Hunger - GG for a 12/12 trample is a bargain and leaves mana open to sac to Jarad.
Kokusho, the Evening Star - One of the smallest "fatties" but goes a long way toward the bleeder wincon.
Primeval Protector - Often just G for a 10/10 that pumps the rest of your team and leaves mana open for saccing to Jarad.
Sheoldred, Whispering One - Brings back other fatties to do it all over again.
Terastodon - Removal and a 9/9.
Ulvenwald Hydra - Utility land ramp (can grab anything, like Volrath's Stronghold) and gets big to boot. Plus, it has reach.

I, too, do not try to go infinite with Jarad. I use him as a wincon, but often it's just incremental life loss and a controlling board to seal the game.
I also like a backup plan to jarad, which is why I run aristocrats.

If you want to do big mana, Crypt Ghast is never a bad thing to power out big spells like Torment of Hailfire.

I think having some number of creature removal effects is a great idea. Some creatures off the top of my head are Ravenous Chupacabra, Plaguecrafter, Fleshbag Marauder, Bone Shredder, and Shriekmaw. Essentially, you want to look for creatures that have the type of effects that you're looking for so that you maximize the synergy you have in your deck. Cards like Caustic Caterpillar, Reclamation Sage, and Thrashing Brontodon. Bane of Progress can be particularly good since it clears the board of your opponents' ramp effects while also offering a big body to sac to Jarad's ability. Any of these creatures could easily be included as required creatures since they synergize so well with what your deck is wanting to do.

Quote from FunkyDragon »

Personally, I'm not a fan of cards like Lord of Extinction, Nighthowler, or even Bonehoard, and I don't run them in my Jarad deck. They're big... and that's it. They can be chump blocked by 0/1 goats all day long, they don't actually do anything without Jarad, and gravehate (like Rest in Peace) shuts them down completely.

I prefer fatties that can be aggressive in their own right or that do something in addition to being fat. Also, undercosted fatties because you want mana open to sac them to Jarad.
Artisan of Kozilek - Counter-resistant reanimate, 10 power, Annihilator. This is a must-answer card that Jarad loves to sac.
Doomgape - 10/10 trample does a lot of damage. Acts as a secondary sac outlet for some cards, and can gain a significant amount of life.
Ghalta, Primal Hunger - GG for a 12/12 trample is a bargain and leaves mana open to sac to Jarad.
Kokusho, the Evening Star - One of the smallest "fatties" but goes a long way toward the bleeder wincon.
Primeval Protector - Often just G for a 10/10 that pumps the rest of your team and leaves mana open for saccing to Jarad.
Sheoldred, Whispering One - Brings back other fatties to do it all over again.
Terastodon - Removal and a 9/9.
Ulvenwald Hydra - Utility land ramp (can grab anything, like Volrath's Stronghold) and gets big to boot. Plus, it has reach.

I, too, do not try to go infinite with Jarad. I use him as a wincon, but often it's just incremental life loss and a controlling board to seal the game.
I also like a backup plan to jarad, which is why I run aristocrats.

interesting, haven't thought that way about a bit less-potent but safer fatties. With strong dredge theme, I can easily keep those fatties above 20/20 and im my playgroup the only gravehate cards seems to be ocasional bojuka bog, I'm willing to take risk.
Thou some cards I already included in most of my build versions like Kokushko who is great both to heal me and burn enemies. Sheoldred is also one of the strongest creatures to run. Terastodon, very useful and Ulvenwald Hydra seems very nice actually. Had Ghalta in previous versions thou later didn't find much place for it, every other heavy cost creature had some more interestign effect (baleful force, tutors, revival etc)

Quote from benjameenbear »

If you want to do big mana, Crypt Ghast is never a bad thing to power out big spells like Torment of Hailfire.

I think having some number of creature removal effects is a great idea. Some creatures off the top of my head are Ravenous Chupacabra, Plaguecrafter, Fleshbag Marauder, Bone Shredder, and Shriekmaw. Essentially, you want to look for creatures that have the type of effects that you're looking for so that you maximize the synergy you have in your deck. Cards like Caustic Caterpillar, Reclamation Sage, and Thrashing Brontodon. Bane of Progress can be particularly good since it clears the board of your opponents' ramp effects while also offering a big body to sac to Jarad's ability. Any of these creatures could easily be included as required creatures since they synergize so well with what your deck is wanting to do.

O ye, think I'll love Crypt Ghast, and I'll include more of the enchantment / artifact destruction stuff,
I was thinking about running awatar of woe, and forcing enemies to sacrifice via butcher of malakir, savra queen of golgari, grave pact and dictate of erebos

btw, how do I do those deck posts sorted both by type of cards and their functionality (dredge,draw,etc..) ?

BUMP *

finally managed to post the deck, now people can help me much faster and easier

Interesting list. The card I'm most curious about is Instill Energy - why is this in here?

Enchanted creature can attack as though it had haste.
0: Untap enchanted creature. Activate this ability only during your turn and only once each turn.

I shy away from auras because they open you up to 2-for-1s, and this one does little to nothing for your commander, aside from haste for attacking, and Jarad is usually used more for the sac ability than for beefy attacks.

Which creatures do you primarily want to pair it with? Is it for the haste? Or the untap? Is there a reason you run this over, say, Thousand-Year Elixir, which does not suffer from 2-for-1s?

Quote from FunkyDragon »

Interesting list. The card I'm most curious about is Instill Energy - why is this in here?

Enchanted creature can attack as though it had haste.
0: Untap enchanted creature. Activate this ability only during your turn and only once each turn.

I shy away from auras because they open you up to 2-for-1s, and this one does little to nothing for your commander, aside from haste for attacking, and Jarad is usually used more for the sac ability than for beefy attacks.

Which creatures do you primarily want to pair it with? Is it for the haste? Or the untap? Is there a reason you run this over, say, Thousand-Year Elixir, which does not suffer from 2-for-1s?

Glad you asked

so the cards that I want tocombo with instill energy are:

1. voyaging satyr - this can make me use cabal coffers up to 3x times in one turn for tons of mana to hopefully cast one mega large torment of hailfire.
2. marwyn, the nurturer + bonehoard or nighthowler - same, tons of mana
3. selvala, heart of the wilds - mana mana mana
4. necrotic ooze - using 2 abilities that are best for the situation

Also Thousand-year elixir is interesting card I honestly haven't stumbled upon, I might even include it, dunno yet.

That seems a pretty much do nothing piece.

If you're going with X/Xs, I recommend Sewer Nemesis naming yourself and Reverent who flies over. I found Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar to be another card that this deck wants. My favourite spice tech is Caller of the Hunt, as you Sacrifice the Myriad tokens at end of combat before they're Exiled.Hermit Druid is a great way to load up your 'yard and make sure you hit your land drops.

As for noncreature suggestions, Key to the City is a draw engine. It'll fill your Graveyard to Jarad bigger and make him unblockable so that he can get in for 21 Commander. See the Unwritten is obnoxious, as you usually get two Creatures out of it and fill your yard to make Jarad big. Rishkar's Expertise can potentially draw you tons and then you get a free play out of it. Evolutionary Lea is a great way to fill up your hand in response to Wraths or if you just need to go digging.

I used to play a budget Jarad, you can check my deck out in my Retired decks section of my sig if you want ideas.

Quote from Matowolf »

Quote from FunkyDragon »

Interesting list. The card I'm most curious about is Instill Energy - why is this in here?

Enchanted creature can attack as though it had haste.
0: Untap enchanted creature. Activate this ability only during your turn and only once each turn.

I shy away from auras because they open you up to 2-for-1s, and this one does little to nothing for your commander, aside from haste for attacking, and Jarad is usually used more for the sac ability than for beefy attacks.

Which creatures do you primarily want to pair it with? Is it for the haste? Or the untap? Is there a reason you run this over, say, Thousand-Year Elixir, which does not suffer from 2-for-1s?

Glad you asked

so the cards that I want tocombo with instill energy are:

1. voyaging satyr - this can make me use cabal coffers up to 3x times in one turn for tons of mana to hopefully cast one mega large torment of hailfire.
2. marwyn, the nurturer + bonehoard or nighthowler - same, tons of mana
3. selvala, heart of the wilds - mana mana mana
4. necrotic ooze - using 2 abilities that are best for the situation

Also Thousand-year elixir is interesting card I honestly haven't stumbled upon, I might even include it, dunno yet.

So, it's a support card that only works with a handful of support creatures to (in most cases) create mana, which then requires another support card to do anything. And you get 2-for-1ed if they kill the creature it enchants.

1. Five card combo - requires Voyaging Satyr, Instill Energy, Cabal Coffers, Urborg (because Coffers by itself is bad in two color decks running less than 1/3 Swamps), and a mana sink like Torment of Hailfire.
2. Four card combo - requires a fragile creature, a pump, Instill energy, and a mana sink.
3. Four card combo - Instill Energy on a small creature, another big creature to make it do anything, and a mana sink to use the mana generated.
4. Necrotic Ooze could be interesting, but it isn't really a deck built around activated abilities. This has the most potential but the least control. It's very hit or miss - you might get Avatar of Woe's ability, or you might get Sakura-Tribe Elder's - which is why adding an aura to support a minimal percentage of your deck may not be a good idea.

In all of these cases, you aren't even using your commander, the one card you are guaranteed access to, which means you are supporting your support cards. They aren't even primary support cards, as none of them really interact with your commander or your deck's theme. I find the odds of assembling one of these combos and having it work to be very, very small.

At the very least, I'd recommend a straight swap: Thousand-Year Elixir instead of Instill Energy, as it can at least be played before the creature and sticks around after the creature dies.

Personally, though, I'd probably abandon this interaction as too cute but not effective.

If you decide to keep these interactions, though, let us know how they work out. And if you are looking for other ideas, here's my list. I haven't updated it since March, but it's pretty fun and can bleed for a lot.

So, this is where I'm at with my Jarad deck. Im also constricted by a $200 budge kimit with my playgroup but that mainly manifests in the manabase and lack of tutors

Better breakdown here: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/8497-200-jarad

Thoughts and constructive criticisms are more than welcome.

Drown in Filth is not the kill spell you'll ever want. While cute and in-theme, you want your answers to answer instead of maybe. Putrefy or Hero's Downfall should be in this slot, for example.

Arch of Orazca and Grim Backwoods are two low opportunity cost ways to add more draw to your deck, which I think it needs.

Since your Creatures are ordered without rhyme or reason, I don't know if you have a sufficient curve for Birthing Pod.

Quote from Tev »

Drown in Filth is not the kill spell you'll ever want. While cute and in-theme, you want your answers to answer instead of maybe. Putrefy or Hero's Downfall should be in this slot, for example.

Arch of Orazca and Grim Backwoods are two low opportunity cost ways to add more draw to your deck, which I think it needs.

Since your Creatures are ordered without rhyme or reason, I don't know if you have a sufficient curve for Birthing Pod.

Thx man. Idk why it orders stuff that way. I just linked the the decklist from the mtgs deckbuilder. If u click the actual url link, I think it orders them better.

Quote from FearDReaper »

Idk why it orders stuff that way. I just linked the the decklist from the mtgs deckbuilder. If u click the actual url link, I think it orders them better.

Nah - the MTGS deckbuilder just has crap organization. I used it for one deck and decided I'd rather manually tag out decks.

Tev, how many pieces of card draw would you recommend? Currently in the list above there's ten. 15-20?

Yeah, usually when I make a deck, unless it's going to do something weird I put in 15ish pieces of ramp and 15ish pieces of draw. I then modify that based on gameplay.

The current version of the deck has 33 lands and a Sol Ring. You are running *some* elves and other accelerators but I've found Jarad decks to be extremely mana hungry and would recommend 38 lands at the very least, with 39 or even 40 being defensible. What good are the ramp cards if you miss land drops?

GLHF

No infinite combos, you say?

What about mikaeus + Woodfall primus + altar?