Saheeli had been working hard on her device since the Inventors' Fair, her entry a replication machine, a prototype that was able to duplicate mechanical objects and relatively simple creatures. She knew it was still too rudimentary to try to clone something like her own being, but trying it on her beastly cat proved successful, even if she was somewhat out of pocket for all the extra cat food she needed to buy.
It required an enormous amount of energy to run the machine, draining the Aether supply each time she used it. It was only through the incidental effect of her cat clones phase-shifting Saheeli when they came into existence, that she had her eureka moment. Realizing that if she could harness the essence of phase-shifting into the machine itself, that it would truly be able to copy anything as many times as she liked, without further need of the Aether grid and indeed she might be able to try the machine on herself.
"But would a clone actually be her?". She was keen to find out, after all she could ask, well her, er, us? "Are you me?". She was already pondering the realities of the multiverse, and these might be some of the existential answers she had been looking for ever since she discovered her spark.
OK, so there are a lot of different ways to build this "Infinite Replication Machine". I will layout all the different schematics for you.
The general idea is that we are going to setup doing Saheeli [-7] a potential infinite number of times, each time creating copies of all our artifacts.
There are a myriad of combinations for doing this.
The way we are looking to do this, is to have renewable ways of putting at least 3 loyalty counters on Saheeli, so that when she comes into play on her starting loyalty of 4, we can then use her [-7] immediately. If she is only on 7 loyalty at the time you [-7] then she will go back to the commander zone. This will give you the option of recasting her and using her again.
So between these cards we can look to combine them in order to have a sequence where we can build up Saheeli to at least 7 loyalty, so that we can keep using Saheeli [-7] indefinitely in a turn. This will mean we will get infinite copies of our artifacts for the turn.
You might be asking how do we have the mana to activate and cast all these things? Now it important to understand the power of doubling.
There is a legend about a chess riddle between a traveling sage and the King of India.
The king was a big chess enthusiast and had the habit of challenging wise visitors to a game of chess. One day a traveling sage was challenged by the king. To motivate his opponent the king offered any reward that the sage could name. The sage modestly asked just for a few grains of rice in the following manner: the king was to put a single grain of rice on the first chess square and double it on every consequent one.
Having lost the game and being a man of his word the king ordered a bag of rice to be brought to the chess board. Then he started placing rice grains according to the arrangement: 1 grain on the first square, 2 on the second, 4 on the third, 8 on the fourth and so on:
With 64 squares on a chess board, that number would be over 18,000,000,000,000,000,000 grains of rice by the 64th square.
The point is that once you start doubling, as long as you have sufficient mana to get the first few activation's, you'll have plenty of mana to do what you want subsequently. Including potentially casting Saheeli from the commander zone..infinite times.
For example.
Let's say we have Sol Ring and Grim Monolith in play. The first Saheeli [-7] we get 2xSol Ring and 2xGrim Monolith, for 10 total mana. The next time we Saheeli [-7] we get another 4xSol Ring and 4xGrim Monolith. Now we have a total of 20 artifact mana. You can see with minimal amounts of starting artifact mana, that the power of doubling will mean that you'll get huge amounts every time you use Saheeli [-7].
Clockspinning and Viral Drake along with 3U will allow you to put a loyalty counter on Saheeli each time. So as long as you have enough artifact mana to get the first 3 loyalty counters on Saheeli after a [-7], plus recasting her, then you will be able to go infinite.
The easiest way of looking at this is do you have at least 4UU worth of artifact mana to start with? Because when you double your artifact sources, you'll get at least 8UUUU. This is enough to use Clockspinning or Viral Drake three times.
As I've already pointed out because you're doubling your sources of artifact mana each time, then you'll have far more than required to keep recasting Saheeli even with cumulative commander tax.
*This example could have been done with the above cards as well.
There are 3 cards in the deck that allow you to make permanents artifacts; Mycosynth Lattice, Liquimetal Coating, Memnarch.
If Saheeli is an artifact at the time you use her [-7] copy ability and you make sure she has more than 7 loyalty (i.e she doesn't die), you'll get a new version of her coming into play. This means you'll be able to use her abilities immediately again, without needing to recast her from the commander zone.
Mycosynth Lattice is by far the best outlet for making your non-artifact permanents artifacts.
The reason is that because it makes all your permanents artifacts, when you ultimate Saheeli [-7] each time you'll get copies of all your permanents, including lands. This means that it's much easier to pay mana for your combinations.
Liquimetal Coating can be used to make a permanent an artifact. Because you'll get more Liquimetal Coating each time you use Saheeli [-7], you'll be able to make even more of your permanents artifacts. Including lands if you need more mana.
Memnarch is the most expensive, needing 1UU each time you want to make any permanent an artifact.
With Deepglow Skate and the ability to turn it into an artifact, when you Saheeli [-7] you will get more copies of it coming into play. If you can also make Saheeli an artifact, then they both go infinite together.
Forge of Heroes can be used in conjunction with one of the cards that can make it an artifact. As long as you get to make copies of it using Saheeli [-7] you'll be able keep increasing the loyalty counters each time.
Heart of Kiran is a means of controlling the amount of loyalty counters on Saheeli, so you can use this to send her back to the commander zone to recast her, for further activation's if required.
We have twenty sources of artifact mana in the deck, and the reason for this is that we always want a threshold of mana so that when you use Saheeli [-7], you'll get to make copies, enabling you to have appropriate mana for potentially needing to activate combo cards, and in most instances recast Saheeli from the command zone.
A lot of the combos do require a hefty amount of mana to begin with, so you'll be looking to copy as mana artifact sources of mana as you can. It's also important that these sources enter the battlefield untapped, as you'll be looking to use them immediately.
This in fact trickles down to even your lands, as you can look to make your lands artifacts via Liquimetal Coating, Mycosynth Lattice and Memnarch.
If you have any of the making permanents an artifact cards, Liquimetal Coating, Mycosynth Lattice and Memnarch, then you can also look to get draw/advantage from almost any permanent in the deck with Saheeli [-7].
Also all of the other planewalkers in the deck can have the same application of replicating as I've demonstrated with Saheeli, the Gifted.
With the ability to make any of your planeswalkers artifacts, and combine this with Saheeli [-7], you'll keep getting new copies coming into play.
You'll be able to use the abilities of, Saheeli Rai, Dack Fayden, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Tezzeret the Seeker, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Will Kenrith, Rowan Kenrith, as many times you want. Essentially drawing your deck, and even ultimate them as many times as you want.
On that note, you can finish opponents by making your large amount of artifacts (infinite) all creatures with Tezzeret the Seeker and attack opponents with haste.
Because of Saheeli ability to reduce the cost of a spell for the turn, it's worthwhile having some hey-makers in Omniscience and Enter the Infinite, as you can potentially cast them the turn after (or even in) Saheeli comes into play. There are plenty of cheap artifacts and mana sources in order to consistently cast these.
Because Saheeli [-7] only lasts until end of turn, you can Sundial of the Infinite so that you get to keep them all.
You can make Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory artifacts for the turn when you're looking to Saheeli [-7]. Because you'll get copies straight away, this doesn't cost you anything. The advantage is that on subsequent Saheeli [-7] you'll get double the amount of these lands each time.
One of her patrons had managed to convince her to try the newly configurated replication machine on making a clone of him. He wanted to put another self to good use, by letting it spend the weekend with his wife, while he went off to the Daredevil Dragster races. His wife had blasted him for wanting to watch silly vehicles going fast, rather than celebrate their anniversary. But he had been looking forward to this event all year, and well, if he didn't tell her about the clone, then what harm could it do to sneak off, while she still got all his attention, right?
Saheeli had warned him that he would be the first human to try out this process. He had already paid for premium tickets to the races, so he figured, "what's the worst that could happen?".
Well there was good news and bad news after the device had been focused on him. The good news is that the machine worked perfectly. The bad news was that an ornifly had managed to enter the contraption at the same time of the transfusion.
He figured that if he put a large enough cloak around one of his "duplicates" that he could hide the wings on an otherwise normal version of himself, and his wife would be none the wiser. The other clone however, with an ornifly head on his body, was simply a little disgusting.
Saheeli, feeling a little uncomfortable and a little guilty managed to convince him to retry the process, this time a perfect twin of the man! Both sound of mind and body.
Saheeli was ready to try it on herself. Would she have debates and solve problems and puzzles with her own brilliant selves?
She flicked the switch, Aether transfused and a huge flash lit up the room. There was her clone. But the clone looked at where Saheeli should still be standing, and she was not there. The clone paused, "wait did I just transport myself?" She felt the same, it just seemed that she had moved from one spot to another. But she knew the machine was not designed this way. Where did the original Saheeli go? She tried it again. Exactly the same thing happened.
It seemed like there was some overriding law of the multiverse that only allowed one version of herself to exist.
In the end this was somewhat comforting. She was special, the spark and her existence were for her alone.
I'm just going to keep the introduction for this deck simply. Using Saheeli "[+1]: The next spell you cast this turn costs 1 less to cast for each artifact you control as you cast it.", will mean that you can cast extra turn cards early on and also possibly have mana available for casting other spells.
One of the drawbacks of playing extra turn cards is that often you won't have mana available for other spells, so you are more or less cycling through for another draw and a land drop. Plus they are on the upper mana curve, so sometimes you are not able to cast them in a timely manner.
But this deck looks get going quickly and with reducing the cost of your extra turn cards, you will be able to get the ball rolling early. It has a lot of cheap artifacts, where most provide mana, or can be cycled for draw.
Another strong candidate for turbo turns in Izzet colors in the past has been is Mizzix of the Izmagnus. But there is much more of a setup period and the deck has to be structured in a certain way (threshold of instants and sorceries with a distribution) to get enough experience counters to get the extra turns flowing.
With Saheeli, the Gifted we are literally looking to start casting the extra turn card the following turn we cast her, or can even look to cast in the same turn if a spare colored mana.
Because Saheeli doesn't have any natural draw abilities, we are looking to take advatange of the extra turns with cards like Kami of the Crescent Moon, Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix.
Then also take advantage of cheap planeswalkers that can offer draw, so that you can use their abilities again in the extra turns.
Because we can build up Saheeli and indeed other planeswalkers up to their more powerful abilities with the extra turns, we can look to setup win conditions fairly quickly.
There are still some of the combo cards that I've laid out in the "Infinite Replication Machine" deck, that you can review in the original post.
We can still look to use Saheeli [-7] to get infinite artifacts using the power of doubling our artifact mana, along with some of the cards that allow us to put extra loyalty counters on our planeswalkers.
Because it's also hard to protect planeswalkers against attacking creatures, all the extra turns cards help for you to build up their loyalty.
It's very possible for you to cast a planeswalker and an extra turns card in the early stages of the game using Saheeli [+1] cost reduction, and this really helps to build up the loyalty and card threshold for you to combo quickly.
Clockspinning and Viral Drake can be used to put loyalty counters on planeswalker, and please read the "Crazy Inventions" for combinations with Saheeli to go infinite. But these cards also have the bonus of putting cards on Magistrate's Scepter, so that you can have multiple extra turns. Once you have 12 mana naturally you can have infinite turns combining these cards.
I've already explained the interactions with making permanents artifacts and then using Saheeli [-7] to copy them. But it's important to reiterate what you can do with the planeswalkers.
If you have Liquimetal Coating or Mycosynth Lattice then you can look to make a planeswalker also an artifact. This way when you Saheeli [-7], or even maybe Saheeli Rai [-2], then you will get another version of them coming into play. The advantage is that you can look to reuse an ability again.
I've update the thread to include the 'Turbo Turn' deck in the post above. This was actually the very first design I started on for all the planeswalkers of Commander 2018, but just hadn't put the list together until now.
I have a Will & Rowan Kenrith as Commanders Super Friends deck, so know all the ins & outs of what they are capable of.
Will Kenrith ability for further cost reduction and draw will help with all the extra turn cards or casting more planeswalkers. His emblem is perfect for copying the extra turn cards as well.
Rowan Kenrith emblem works nicely with all the planeswalker abilities, plus it means that you potentially only need of the permanent based loyalty generators to combo off and go infinite.
So Animation Module, Contagion Clasp, Throne of Geth, The Chain Veil, Viral Drake.
Because when you get to Saheeli [-7] you'll get copies and then activating with Rowan emblem will mean that you get to put up to 4 loyalty the first time.
It's also good because these same loyalty cards get to work the Kenrith's up to their emblems in the first place.
Plus the whole partner thing is pretty amazing as you get to essentially draw both of them off one. Pretty unfair if you ask me Infinite Replication Machine Added
+ Will Kenrith
+ Rowan Kenrith
I've added Jaya Ballard to the Turbo Turns deck. She actually does a lot, stretching out your ability to cast multiple cards each turn with her "[+1]: Add {R}{R}{R}. Spend this mana only to cast instant or sorcery spells."
The "[+1]: Discard up to three cards, then draw that many cards." is also very good, allowing you to make sure you draw your extra turn cards on time.
Her "[-8]: You get an emblem with "You may cast instant and sorcery cards from your graveyard. If a card cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead."" ultimate is perfect for being able to cast your non-exiled extra turn cards again.
Also don't be shy on leaving a comment, seems like I might have left people a little perplexed with my takes on Saheeli, the Gifted?
I have put a lot on thought into the decks and I always like to take my own slightly unique approach to commanders, mainly trying to figure out infinite's, so that my lists are like resource guides for people, rather than straight up trying to be as competitive as possible.
You know, I like these decks. But I can't bring something like this to the shop. People already bemoan my decks and they're way more casual than these. Here is what I will do:
You know, I like these decks. But I can't bring something like this to the shop. People already bemoan my decks and they're way more casual than these. Here is what I will do:
1.) Copy you deck like I did with Estrid.
2.) Neuter it.
3.) Still crush the locals.
You mean to say players don't like it when they never get to play Magic half way through a game!?
Yeah they are not the most interactive decks. Replication Machine is very much about surviving long enough to assemble parts of the combo, and whether opponents can stop you.
The Turbo Turns can happen fairly quickly. At first you might play out a Kami of the Crescent Moon, Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix and opponents are like "This is cool". Then after awhile it's like "This is really uncool, are you having fun by yourself over there?" ... of which my answer is always "Yes!".
really digging the superfriends approach in one list. Not as big of a fan of Turbo Turns, but I can see where she really makes the deck and interactions fun to play. Would love to see your take on dropping fatties, such as Eldrazi Titans or Blightsteel Colossus
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I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
really digging the superfriends approach in one list. Not as big of a fan of Turbo Turns, but I can see where she really makes the deck and interactions fun to play. Would love to see your take on dropping fatties, such as Eldrazi Titans or Blightsteel Colossus
Actually Kozilek, the Great Distortion should probably be in both decks, but you're on.. Eldrazi deck coming up. I really like to take the deck angles to the extremes, as more like resource guides for people wanting to know the limits of themes (infinites or whatever) rather than a single homogenized deck, that covers too many angles. So having big fatties in the other two decks really isn't on theme.
But I am happy to go all out on what can be done in that direction. I'll start brewing. I have some central cards that I like in Saheeli and those are the zero and one mana cantrips artifacts, as they can help to accelerate your artifact count, or simply traded for another card if you need action.
Things like; Mishra's Bauble, Urza's Bauble, Sensei's Divining Top, Chromatic Sphere, Chromatic Star.
Really interesting deck ideas and mini primers for Saheeli, the Gifted. I like a lot of your ideas, even though I am not a big fan of combo decks, it shows the general potential of Saheeli.
I started to brainstorm her as well and I will put my first list with her together tomorrow. (I am still awaiting some cards for it, which are in the mail.)
I play her in the 99 of a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager grixis artifacts list, which has a planeswalker subtheme and I was nothing but astonished by her powerlevel. She really seems to be the best of the 4 new planeswalker commanders, because of the open ended nature of her abilities. The only thing she wants you to play is a bunch of artifacts, which could very well be mostly mana producing ones and maybe a few utility artifacts. Other than that you are free to experiment around with themes.
For my first draft I want to explore a spellslinger theme, with a thievery subtheme. Cards like Swarm Intelligence, Sunbird's Invocation & Mind's Dilation should all be pretty busted with her affinity for artifacts ability. Also Chaos Wand seems great, as well as Blatant Thievery & Entrancing Melody. I defnitely want a deck that scales a little bit with your opponents and generally plays a slower, control-ish game with counterspells and such.
Definetly hyped to see how it will work out. If you have any suggestions for such a gameplan let me know
I second Chaos Wand feels really good. Gets broken if you're able to untap it. And goes infinite with Paradox Engine which in my opinion is one of the stupidest combos in the world.
I second Chaos Wand feels really good. Gets broken if you're able to untap it. And goes infinite with Paradox Engine which in my opinion is one of the stupidest combos in the world.
Also nice list.
Never really took notice of Chaos Wand properly before. I have had it played against me, I think it did some work.
The Paradox Engine combo is pretty nice, 4 from artifacts and you should be able to cast all the instants and sorcery in opponents decks, however you are likely to hit a number of board wipes. It is a "may", so you just need to make sure you have a backup spell yourself to keep the engine going.
Also runs into the problem of hitting a counterspell effect which if nothing is on the stack, then you won;t be able to cast it.
I guess the trick is to keep using it when you get to untap and the spells are still on the stack, just to make sure there are more options available for certain cards. Things like copying spells, etc.
Fair enough. Have you considered running the Dramatic Reversal / Isocron Scepter combo? I'm thinking of slotting it into my list. Dramatic reversal is basically a High Tide on crack for us. Iscocron only has 8-9 usably targets in your list. Muddle the Mixture tutors for both pieces of the combo tho. Maybe worth it?
Fair enough. Have you considered running the Dramatic Reversal / Isocron Scepter combo? I'm thinking of slotting it into my list. Dramatic reversal is basically a High Tide on crack for us. Iscocron only has 8-9 usably targets in your list. Muddle the Mixture tutors for both pieces of the combo tho. Maybe worth it?
I have played Isochron Scepter in a deck and yeah you really do need a lot of 2 or less instants to make this card worthwhile.
Even if you put a Mana Drain under it, it is the number one target for the rest of the game, so the second you use it, you'll have all your opponents ready to pounce to remove it.
I've had this happen with and against and because it is a must remove threat, putting a counterspell under it will stall much of what your opponents are doing for a turn or two, but on average you will be the number one threat and all removal will be focused on it and you.
I am curious as to how the combo's work exactly.. You say you only need 2 of any proliferate artifact, or a single Contagion engine to get the combo working off, but with her starting at 4, she needs 3 counters, and contagion engine, or any two others only give 2. and you can't use one of her abilities to +1 and then use her ultimate the same turn.
I am curious as to how the combo's work exactly.. You say you only need 2 of any proliferate artifact, or a single Contagion engine to get the combo working off, but with her starting at 4, she needs 3 counters, and contagion engine, or any two others only give 2. and you can't use one of her abilities to +1 and then use her ultimate the same turn.
Is there something I'm missing in the combo?
Yeah it assumes that you have her on the 7 loyalty for the ultimate for the first time. So there is a period where you need to build her up and even be able to ultimate.
So if you can imagine you'll still need to [+1] her at least 3 times, then the next time be able to [-7]. Of course you might have something to accelerated the counters, but at the end of the day, you still need to setup for a [-7].
I can't see the turbo turns list any more: do you have a link to it?
I've put it back up, it's in the second post. I removed it, because sometimes threads can have too much information to digest if people are not too fussed on Saheeli, the Gifted as a commander in the first place.
Thanks! I've put together a deck based on this list and wanted to compare it with the original.
I'm running fewer extra turn cards, but have Timestream Navigator and Mechanised Production to provide infinite turns with Mycosynth Lattice and Tidespout Tyrant and Archaomancer to give infinite turns with the extra turn cards that go to the graveyard. Tidespout Tyrant can also give infinite mana with the rocks, so I also included Walking Ballista and Explosion to take advantage of that.
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The general idea is that we are going to setup doing Saheeli [-7] a potential infinite number of times, each time creating copies of all our artifacts.
There are a myriad of combinations for doing this.
The way we are looking to do this, is to have renewable ways of putting at least 3 loyalty counters on Saheeli, so that when she comes into play on her starting loyalty of 4, we can then use her [-7] immediately. If she is only on 7 loyalty at the time you [-7] then she will go back to the commander zone. This will give you the option of recasting her and using her again.
The cards in Izzet colors that allow us to put extra loyalty counters on planeswalkers are:
Deepglow Skate, Contagion Engine, Contagion Clasp, Throne of Geth, Animation Module, The Chain Veil, Clockspinning, Viral Drake, Forge of Heroes.
So between these cards we can look to combine them in order to have a sequence where we can build up Saheeli to at least 7 loyalty, so that we can keep using Saheeli [-7] indefinitely in a turn. This will mean we will get infinite copies of our artifacts for the turn.
You might be asking how do we have the mana to activate and cast all these things? Now it important to understand the power of doubling.
There is a legend about a chess riddle between a traveling sage and the King of India.
Having lost the game and being a man of his word the king ordered a bag of rice to be brought to the chess board. Then he started placing rice grains according to the arrangement: 1 grain on the first square, 2 on the second, 4 on the third, 8 on the fourth and so on:
With 64 squares on a chess board, that number would be over 18,000,000,000,000,000,000 grains of rice by the 64th square.
The point is that once you start doubling, as long as you have sufficient mana to get the first few activation's, you'll have plenty of mana to do what you want subsequently. Including potentially casting Saheeli from the commander zone..infinite times.
Let's say we have Sol Ring and Grim Monolith in play. The first Saheeli [-7] we get 2xSol Ring and 2xGrim Monolith, for 10 total mana. The next time we Saheeli [-7] we get another 4xSol Ring and 4xGrim Monolith. Now we have a total of 20 artifact mana. You can see with minimal amounts of starting artifact mana, that the power of doubling will mean that you'll get huge amounts every time you use Saheeli [-7].
Artifact sources that increase your loyalty counters are; Contagion Engine, Contagion Clasp, Throne of Geth, Animation Module, The Chain Veil.
You will need any two of them to combo with Saheeli [-7]. However Contagion Engine can combo by itself, without the need of another loyalty generators. Also Voltaic Key or Rings of Brighthearth or Saheeli Rai can be used in conjunction with anyone of them instead.
For example.
You have Contagion Clasp and Throne of Geth.
As long as you can Saheeli [-7] you'll get 2xContagion Clasp and 2xThrone of Geth.
So now you can potentially add 3 (or 4) loyalty counters to Saheeli.
If you want to keep recasting her infinitely then you'll need colored artifact mana sources, like Seat of the Synod/Great Furnace, Lotus Petal, Mox Amber, Mox Opal, Izzet Signet, Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, Commander's Sphere, Gilded Lotus, Coveted Jewel, Chromatic Sphere, Chromatic Star.
Note that Mox Amber and Mox Opal are legendary, so you won't be able to keep doubling up with these, but you will get new copies each time, so you will still get additional mana. Chromatic Sphere and Chromatic Star can get you colored mana as well as drawing cards.
Clockspinning and Viral Drake along with 3U will allow you to put a loyalty counter on Saheeli each time. So as long as you have enough artifact mana to get the first 3 loyalty counters on Saheeli after a [-7], plus recasting her, then you will be able to go infinite.
The easiest way of looking at this is do you have at least 4UU worth of artifact mana to start with? Because when you double your artifact sources, you'll get at least 8UUUU. This is enough to use Clockspinning or Viral Drake three times.
As I've already pointed out because you're doubling your sources of artifact mana each time, then you'll have far more than required to keep recasting Saheeli even with cumulative commander tax.
*Here is an example using Contagion Engine.
There are 3 cards in the deck that allow you to make permanents artifacts; Mycosynth Lattice, Liquimetal Coating, Memnarch.
If Saheeli is an artifact at the time you use her [-7] copy ability and you make sure she has more than 7 loyalty (i.e she doesn't die), you'll get a new version of her coming into play. This means you'll be able to use her abilities immediately again, without needing to recast her from the commander zone.
Mycosynth Lattice is by far the best outlet for making your non-artifact permanents artifacts.
The reason is that because it makes all your permanents artifacts, when you ultimate Saheeli [-7] each time you'll get copies of all your permanents, including lands. This means that it's much easier to pay mana for your combinations.
Liquimetal Coating can be used to make a permanent an artifact. Because you'll get more Liquimetal Coating each time you use Saheeli [-7], you'll be able to make even more of your permanents artifacts. Including lands if you need more mana.
Memnarch is the most expensive, needing 1UU each time you want to make any permanent an artifact.
With Deepglow Skate and the ability to turn it into an artifact, when you Saheeli [-7] you will get more copies of it coming into play. If you can also make Saheeli an artifact, then they both go infinite together.
Forge of Heroes can be used in conjunction with one of the cards that can make it an artifact. As long as you get to make copies of it using Saheeli [-7] you'll be able keep increasing the loyalty counters each time.
Heart of Kiran is a means of controlling the amount of loyalty counters on Saheeli, so you can use this to send her back to the commander zone to recast her, for further activation's if required.
We have twenty sources of artifact mana in the deck, and the reason for this is that we always want a threshold of mana so that when you use Saheeli [-7], you'll get to make copies, enabling you to have appropriate mana for potentially needing to activate combo cards, and in most instances recast Saheeli from the command zone.
A lot of the combos do require a hefty amount of mana to begin with, so you'll be looking to copy as mana artifact sources of mana as you can. It's also important that these sources enter the battlefield untapped, as you'll be looking to use them immediately.
This in fact trickles down to even your lands, as you can look to make your lands artifacts via Liquimetal Coating, Mycosynth Lattice and Memnarch.
There are a number of draw cards in the deck to get to your finishers. When you're using Saheeli [-7] if you have any of the following artifacts in play you can use them for additional draw; Mishra's Bauble, Urza's Bauble, Relic of Progenitus, Scrabbling Claws, Sensei's Divining Top, Aether Spellbomb, Chromatic Sphere , Chromatic Star, Mind Stone, Commander's Sphere, Memory Jar, Coveted Jewel.
These will also allow you to cast a spell at a reduced cost for the turn using Saheeli [+1] spell reduction ability.
If you have any of the making permanents an artifact cards, Liquimetal Coating, Mycosynth Lattice and Memnarch, then you can also look to get draw/advantage from almost any permanent in the deck with Saheeli [-7].
For example, Goblin Welder, Glint-Nest Crane, Trinket Mage can all net you card advantage.
Also all of the other planewalkers in the deck can have the same application of replicating as I've demonstrated with Saheeli, the Gifted.
With the ability to make any of your planeswalkers artifacts, and combine this with Saheeli [-7], you'll keep getting new copies coming into play.
You'll be able to use the abilities of, Saheeli Rai, Dack Fayden, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Tezzeret the Seeker, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Will Kenrith, Rowan Kenrith, as many times you want. Essentially drawing your deck, and even ultimate them as many times as you want.
On that note, you can finish opponents by making your large amount of artifacts (infinite) all creatures with Tezzeret the Seeker and attack opponents with haste.
Because of Saheeli ability to reduce the cost of a spell for the turn, it's worthwhile having some hey-makers in Omniscience and Enter the Infinite, as you can potentially cast them the turn after (or even in) Saheeli comes into play. There are plenty of cheap artifacts and mana sources in order to consistently cast these.
Because Saheeli [-7] only lasts until end of turn, you can Sundial of the Infinite so that you get to keep them all.
You can make Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory artifacts for the turn when you're looking to Saheeli [-7]. Because you'll get copies straight away, this doesn't cost you anything. The advantage is that on subsequent Saheeli [-7] you'll get double the amount of these lands each time.
Seat of the Synod, Great Furnace, Darksteel Citadel will all naturally get copied via Saheeli [-7] ability.
1 Saheeli, the Gifted
Combo (15)
1 Animation Module
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Throne of Geth
1 The Chain Veil
1 Contagion Engine
1 Deepglow Skate
1 Clockspinning
1 Viral Drake
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Memnarch
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Heart of Kiran
1 Sundial of the Infinite
1 Paradox Engine
Artifact mana (20)
1 Mox Amber
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mind Stone
1 Izzet Signet
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Powerstone Shard
1 Hedron Archive
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Coveted Jewel
1 Mishra's Bauble
1 Urza's Bauble
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Chromatic Star
1 Memory Jar
Cratures (5)
1 Goblin Welder
1 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Planeswalker (7)
1 Saheeli Rai
1 Dack Fayden
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Will Kenrith
1 Rowan Kenrith
Tutors (3)
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Fabricate
1 Trinket Mage
Good stuff (3)
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Omniscience
1 Enter the Infinite
Disruption and protection (7)
1 Welding Jar
1 Pact of Negation
1 Swan Song
1 Arcane Denial
1 Mana Drain
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Command Tower
1 Volcanic Island
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Seat of the Synod
7 Island
1 Great Furnace
2 Mountain
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Forge of Heroes
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Sequestered Stash
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mishra's Factory
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm just going to keep the introduction for this deck simply. Using Saheeli "[+1]: The next spell you cast this turn costs 1 less to cast for each artifact you control as you cast it.", will mean that you can cast extra turn cards early on and also possibly have mana available for casting other spells.
One of the drawbacks of playing extra turn cards is that often you won't have mana available for other spells, so you are more or less cycling through for another draw and a land drop. Plus they are on the upper mana curve, so sometimes you are not able to cast them in a timely manner.
But this deck looks get going quickly and with reducing the cost of your extra turn cards, you will be able to get the ball rolling early. It has a lot of cheap artifacts, where most provide mana, or can be cycled for draw.
Another strong candidate for turbo turns in Izzet colors in the past has been is Mizzix of the Izmagnus. But there is much more of a setup period and the deck has to be structured in a certain way (threshold of instants and sorceries with a distribution) to get enough experience counters to get the extra turns flowing.
With Saheeli, the Gifted we are literally looking to start casting the extra turn card the following turn we cast her, or can even look to cast in the same turn if a spare colored mana.
Because Saheeli doesn't have any natural draw abilities, we are looking to take advatange of the extra turns with cards like Kami of the Crescent Moon, Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix.
Then also take advantage of cheap planeswalkers that can offer draw, so that you can use their abilities again in the extra turns.
Because we can build up Saheeli and indeed other planeswalkers up to their more powerful abilities with the extra turns, we can look to setup win conditions fairly quickly.
There are still some of the combo cards that I've laid out in the "Infinite Replication Machine" deck, that you can review in the original post.
We can still look to use Saheeli [-7] to get infinite artifacts using the power of doubling our artifact mana, along with some of the cards that allow us to put extra loyalty counters on our planeswalkers.
The planeswalkers in the deck are chosen based on their ability to gain card advantage and/or interact with artifacts.
Dack Fayden, Jace Beleren, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Tezzeret the Seeker, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, can all gain your draw or cards each turn. So having abilities that can gain you advantage with extra turns is important, as often your mana is tied up with actually casting the extra turn cards.
Because it's also hard to protect planeswalkers against attacking creatures, all the extra turns cards help for you to build up their loyalty.
It's very possible for you to cast a planeswalker and an extra turns card in the early stages of the game using Saheeli [+1] cost reduction, and this really helps to build up the loyalty and card threshold for you to combo quickly.
Clockspinning and Viral Drake can be used to put loyalty counters on planeswalker, and please read the "Crazy Inventions" for combinations with Saheeli to go infinite. But these cards also have the bonus of putting cards on Magistrate's Scepter, so that you can have multiple extra turns. Once you have 12 mana naturally you can have infinite turns combining these cards.
I've already explained the interactions with making permanents artifacts and then using Saheeli [-7] to copy them. But it's important to reiterate what you can do with the planeswalkers.
If you have Liquimetal Coating or Mycosynth Lattice then you can look to make a planeswalker also an artifact. This way when you Saheeli [-7], or even maybe Saheeli Rai [-2], then you will get another version of them coming into play. The advantage is that you can look to reuse an ability again.
Snapcaster Mage, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy are in the deck so that you can mainly have further access to extra turns.
1 Saheeli, the Gifted
Extra Turns (14)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
1 Savor the Moment
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Part the Waterveil
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Karn's Temporal Sundering
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Nexus of Fate
1 Beacon of Tomorrows
1 Expropriate
1 Time Stretch
1 Temporal Trespass
Combo (9)
1 Deepglow Skate
1 The Chain Veil
1 Clockspinning
1 Viral Drake
1 Contagion Engine
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Sundial of the Infinite
1 Paradox Engine
Artifact mana (13)
1 Mox Amber
1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mind Stone
1 Izzet Signet
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Coveted Jewel
1 Mishra's Bauble
1 Urza's Bauble
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalker (9)
1 Saheeli Rai
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace Beleren
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Will Kenrith
1 Rowan Kenrith
Extra draw (5)
1 Kami of the Crescent Moon
1 Howling Mine
1 Dictate of Kruphix
1 Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
1 Enter the Infinite
Graveyard recursion
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Creatures utility (3)
1 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Trinket Mage
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Good stuff
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Omniscience
Disruption and protection (7)
1 Pact of Negation
1 Swan Song
1 Arcane Denial
1 Negate
1 Mana Drain
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Force of Will
1 Command Tower
1 Volcanic Island
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Seat of the Synod
7 Island
1 Great Furnace
2 Mountain
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Forge of Heroes
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Sequestered Stash
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mishra's Factory
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I have a Will & Rowan Kenrith as Commanders Super Friends deck, so know all the ins & outs of what they are capable of.
Will Kenrith ability for further cost reduction and draw will help with all the extra turn cards or casting more planeswalkers. His emblem is perfect for copying the extra turn cards as well.
Rowan Kenrith emblem works nicely with all the planeswalker abilities, plus it means that you potentially only need of the permanent based loyalty generators to combo off and go infinite.
So Animation Module, Contagion Clasp, Throne of Geth, The Chain Veil, Viral Drake.
Because when you get to Saheeli [-7] you'll get copies and then activating with Rowan emblem will mean that you get to put up to 4 loyalty the first time.
It's also good because these same loyalty cards get to work the Kenrith's up to their emblems in the first place.
Plus the whole partner thing is pretty amazing as you get to essentially draw both of them off one. Pretty unfair if you ask me
Infinite Replication Machine
Added
+ Will Kenrith
+ Rowan Kenrith
Removed
- Dig Through Time
- Paradoxical Outcome.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The "[+1]: Discard up to three cards, then draw that many cards." is also very good, allowing you to make sure you draw your extra turn cards on time.
Her "[-8]: You get an emblem with "You may cast instant and sorcery cards from your graveyard. If a card cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead."" ultimate is perfect for being able to cast your non-exiled extra turn cards again.
Added
+ Jaya Ballard
Removed
- Chromatic Star
Also don't be shy on leaving a comment, seems like I might have left people a little perplexed with my takes on Saheeli, the Gifted?
I have put a lot on thought into the decks and I always like to take my own slightly unique approach to commanders, mainly trying to figure out infinite's, so that my lists are like resource guides for people, rather than straight up trying to be as competitive as possible.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
You know, I like these decks. But I can't bring something like this to the shop. People already bemoan my decks and they're way more casual than these. Here is what I will do:
1.) Copy you deck like I did with Estrid.
2.) Neuter it.
3.) Still crush the locals.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Yeah they are not the most interactive decks. Replication Machine is very much about surviving long enough to assemble parts of the combo, and whether opponents can stop you.
The Turbo Turns can happen fairly quickly. At first you might play out a Kami of the Crescent Moon, Howling Mine, Dictate of Kruphix and opponents are like "This is cool". Then after awhile it's like "This is really uncool, are you having fun by yourself over there?" ... of which my answer is always "Yes!".
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
But I am happy to go all out on what can be done in that direction. I'll start brewing. I have some central cards that I like in Saheeli and those are the zero and one mana cantrips artifacts, as they can help to accelerate your artifact count, or simply traded for another card if you need action.
Things like; Mishra's Bauble, Urza's Bauble, Sensei's Divining Top, Chromatic Sphere, Chromatic Star.
Infinite Replication Engine
Added
+ Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Removed
- Aether Spellbomb
Turbo Turns
+ Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Removed
- Lotus Petal
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I started to brainstorm her as well and I will put my first list with her together tomorrow. (I am still awaiting some cards for it, which are in the mail.)
I play her in the 99 of a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager grixis artifacts list, which has a planeswalker subtheme and I was nothing but astonished by her powerlevel. She really seems to be the best of the 4 new planeswalker commanders, because of the open ended nature of her abilities. The only thing she wants you to play is a bunch of artifacts, which could very well be mostly mana producing ones and maybe a few utility artifacts. Other than that you are free to experiment around with themes.
For my first draft I want to explore a spellslinger theme, with a thievery subtheme. Cards like Swarm Intelligence, Sunbird's Invocation & Mind's Dilation should all be pretty busted with her affinity for artifacts ability. Also Chaos Wand seems great, as well as Blatant Thievery & Entrancing Melody. I defnitely want a deck that scales a little bit with your opponents and generally plays a slower, control-ish game with counterspells and such.
Definetly hyped to see how it will work out. If you have any suggestions for such a gameplan let me know
Also nice list.
The Paradox Engine combo is pretty nice, 4 from artifacts and you should be able to cast all the instants and sorcery in opponents decks, however you are likely to hit a number of board wipes. It is a "may", so you just need to make sure you have a backup spell yourself to keep the engine going.
Also runs into the problem of hitting a counterspell effect which if nothing is on the stack, then you won;t be able to cast it.
I guess the trick is to keep using it when you get to untap and the spells are still on the stack, just to make sure there are more options available for certain cards. Things like copying spells, etc.
I think I'd prefer it in a deck that has some ability to search through your opponents library to scope out what is going on. Things like Thada Adel, Acquisitor, Rootwater Thief, Sphinx Ambassador, Bribery, Acquire, Knowledge Exploitation.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I have played Isochron Scepter in a deck and yeah you really do need a lot of 2 or less instants to make this card worthwhile.
Even if you put a Mana Drain under it, it is the number one target for the rest of the game, so the second you use it, you'll have all your opponents ready to pounce to remove it.
I've had this happen with and against and because it is a must remove threat, putting a counterspell under it will stall much of what your opponents are doing for a turn or two, but on average you will be the number one threat and all removal will be focused on it and you.
So Isochron Scepter is a hard card to play, but I can see it being good as a backup Paradox Engine combo with Dramatic Reversal.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Is there something I'm missing in the combo?
So if you can imagine you'll still need to [+1] her at least 3 times, then the next time be able to [-7]. Of course you might have something to accelerated the counters, but at the end of the day, you still need to setup for a [-7].
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Thanks! I've put together a deck based on this list and wanted to compare it with the original.
I'm running fewer extra turn cards, but have Timestream Navigator and Mechanised Production to provide infinite turns with Mycosynth Lattice and Tidespout Tyrant and Archaomancer to give infinite turns with the extra turn cards that go to the graveyard. Tidespout Tyrant can also give infinite mana with the rocks, so I also included Walking Ballista and Explosion to take advantage of that.