Geode Golem seems much too important to this deck strategy. Being able to circumvent the casting cost of Kozi seems like a pretty big deal.
Based on my experience in MTG Arena, The Immortal Sun isn't particularly awe-inspiring or impactful enough to even warrant a side-board inclusion anymore. And if the card isn't being played in a 60 card format, I'm hesitant to give it dedicated deck space personally.
I had to test it. Its been on my radar for so long but after actually using it its a dead draw. Completely out of place when the deck focuses on speed to be playing something with such a high cost that nets an extra 2 cards over the course of the game. Geode Golem goes back in!
I got a Geode Golem and a Transmogrifying Wand. I didn't know what to remove from the deck, but i thought i'll just switch out Blightsteel Colossus and Tangle Wire.I didn't want to remove Tangle Wire, but it was just for 1 day. I still don't know what to remove, but i'll look it over sson. HHowever I never managed to draw any of the piece tho.
EDIT: After i got beaten by Yasova until i had 20 commander damage, i would've loved to keep blowing up his commander.
You need to hunt the dead card.
When you're playing are there any cards that are in your hand that you can cast, but get pushed back for better ones?
You're looking for the cards that get passed over turn after turn and maybe only see play when you have too much mana to actually spend.
Try to forget 'that time when you cast card X and it made a huge impact and won the game that one time'. That metallity ruins your objectivity.
Or another technique I use.
Shuffle up the nonland cards in your deck and draw five cards. Take the two least effective cards and put it on the table. Put the other three in a separate pile.
Do this over and over putting the worst of five in a pile and the rest separately.
When you've gone through everything do it again with the pile of the worst.
Keep going until your pile gets smaller and smaller until you've weeded your way down to the last five of so cards.
Odds are, the one you should take out is one of those.
This technique only works if you know your deck inside out and know every interaction of those cards with the other cards you have.
Then the last thing you ask yourself when you have the cards you're looking to switch: Is this better or worse than the cards I'm replacing it with?
You need to hunt the dead card.
When you're playing are there any cards that are in your hand that you can cast, but get pushed back for better ones?
You're looking for the cards that get passed over turn after turn and maybe only see play when you have too much mana to actually spend.
Try to forget 'that time when you cast card X and it made a huge impact and won the game that one time'. That metallity ruins your objectivity.
Or another technique I use.
Shuffle up the nonland cards in your deck and draw five cards. Take the two least effective cards and put it on the table. Put the other three in a separate pile.
Do this over and over putting the worst of five in a pile and the rest separately.
When you've gone through everything do it again with the pile of the worst.
Keep going until your pile gets smaller and smaller until you've weeded your way down to the last five of so cards.
Odds are, the one you should take out is one of those.
This technique only works if you know your deck inside out and know every interaction of those cards with the other cards you have.
Then the last thing you ask yourself when you have the cards you're looking to switch: Is this better or worse than the cards I'm replacing it with?
This isn't a bad way of doing it. Im just really attached to my cards. Sure im sort of spiky, i like good plays and powerful cards, but i also like the more casual aspect. In my case yes, maybe i should remove one of the bigger bombs and just play my commander more often. But yeah i'll have to look it over.
Im also gonna see if i can get some cards altered.
You’re in a slightly different position in that you play distortion and not butcher so repeatedly playing your commander over and over doesn’t really get you anywhere unless you’re playing the cards as you draw them, but even then you’ll eventually just end up with a handful of land and continued casting gets you nowhere.
I run less bomb creatures because my bomb is infinitely repeatable. I would rather play Kozilek in a turn over something like blightsteel colossus or emrakul, the promised end.
The card up that end of the Curve I want are planar bridge (and an activation of it) and ring of three wishes. I don’t count those as a 6 and 5 CMC. I see them as 14 and 10 so they fall into my ‘bomb cost cards’catagory.
Emrakul is amazing in multiplayer when it comes to politics. Have wrecked many boards by helping one player and basically giving them a timewalk.
But yeah,i know about that difference when it comes to our kozileks.
In my meta I can't afford to use Emrakul politically.
It's the same as when I Mindslaver. I aim for someone with a strong position but with a way I can then wreck that player too.
Token decks with sac outlets for instance.
I smash up my other two opponents and then make the controlled player sac everything they have.
Or that typical Narset, use their infinite attacks to exile their library by attacking the other two players. Then in their next turn right after, draw dead!
Or the standard thing of waste his removal spells on random junk.
If you know your opponents decks well enough (and at this point I do) use their game winning turn to kill everyone apart from you!
Or my number one favorite thing to do. Path their own commander and declare 'it goes to exile' hahahaha
In my meta I can't afford to use Emrakul politically.
It's the same as when I Mindslaver. I aim for someone with a strong position but with a way I can then wreck that player too.
Token decks with sac outlets for instance.
I smash up my other two opponents and then make the controlled player sac everything they have.
Or that typical Narset, use their infinite attacks to exile their library by attacking the other two players. Then in their next turn right after, draw dead!
Or the standard thing of waste his removal spells on random junk.
If you know your opponents decks well enough (and at this point I do) use their game winning turn to kill everyone apart from you!
Or my number one favorite thing to do. Path their own commander and declare 'it goes to exile' hahahaha
Of course, when i end up in that spot and i remind myself that yes, i can exile their commander for good! Its so evil and soooo good!
You guys were right, The Immortal Sun is pretty awkward to cast. The few times I drew it ended up doing something strong so I didn't really have a large sample size I guess. So I cut The Immortal Sun for Grinning Totem. Wow that card is total gas, I highly recommend trying it, stealing someone's Paradox Engine and going off with it is pretty hilarious.
edit: Yeah Geode Golem is total gas too, I'd never cut that card.
In my meta I can't afford to use Emrakul politically.
It's the same as when I Mindslaver. I aim for someone with a strong position but with a way I can then wreck that player too.
Token decks with sac outlets for instance.
I smash up my other two opponents and then make the controlled player sac everything they have.
Or that typical Narset, use their infinite attacks to exile their library by attacking the other two players. Then in their next turn right after, draw dead!
Or the standard thing of waste his removal spells on random junk.
If you know your opponents decks well enough (and at this point I do) use their game winning turn to kill everyone apart from you!
Or my number one favorite thing to do. Path their own commander and declare 'it goes to exile' hahahaha
Emrakul, the Promised End and Mindslaver instantly kill people if they play powerful decks from my experience. Those cards have won me almost every game they have come down on, though Mindslaver has the issue where you need to let your opponents develop a little bit first - even before dropping it on the board, or they'll hedge against it.
Also, as a note on your post about Planar Bridge and Ring of Three Wishes: these cards are busted, but its extremely hard finding a slot for both. While Paradox Engine exists in my deck, its fully capable of winning through the titans, and even just Kozilek himself most of the time since I cast him on turn 4 usually. I run Bridge since I have the Kaladesh Invention version since its really pretty, and its more powerful in general and especially with Unwinding Clock - that just ends the game even if I don't have access to the engine.
You guys were right, The Immortal Sun is pretty awkward to cast. The few times I drew it ended up doing something strong so I didn't really have a large sample size I guess. So I cut The Immortal Sun for Grinning Totem. Wow that card is total gas, I highly recommend trying it, stealing someone's Paradox Engine and going off with it is pretty hilarious.
I gave grinning totem a test a long while ago but found it wasn't for me. I did find it brilliant when I had chromatic lantern out and could use it to play anything from a player's library as land would tap for colour (after the rule change obviously).
The colourless tutors tend to be a tricky one to place in the deck literally because you have to play and activate in one movement, or they just get removed.
I used to play planar portal but 12 mana was asking a lot when ring of three wishes did a perfect job at 10 mana.
Speaking of paradox engine, guess who survived the January rules update???
THIS GUY!!!
So happy I still get to run those broken broken card
Yeah I'm glad it survived but at the same time was totally nervous about that. The card is clearly on whatever watchlist they might have since its so powerful.
Also, Grinning Totem can snag ramp, nuts stuff like Paradox Engine, or snipe stuff people try and tutor for or required cards for their own combos. I think that is more than useful enough. I also run both Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Chromatic Lantern, not to mention a decent amount of my rocks like Coalition Relic can tap for colored mana, so its never bad for me. Though I might try out Ring of Three Wishes if Grinning Totem ever under-performs - it's just that its great at killing a lot of the same kind of decks that Mindslaver is good against too, and those are some of the most dangerous for this deck to deal with.
Also, our decks are constructed very differently, my deck places a significantly larger emphasis on Kozilek himself as well as mana generation, so cards we each find good/bad may not be relevant and both of our lists.
I got one short game in with the deck today. I started, land Mana Vault go.
Player A goes land go.
Player B is monoblue Azami + counterspells. He playes island + Mana Crypt.
I draw Geode Golem and play it, hoping he won't have a counter and sadly he did. If he didn't have that Mana Cryp! But oh well. Then he chained a bunch of timewarp effects into a win.
Getting that mana vault untapped for use and losing the tempo would have hurt pretty bad!
Then the countered geode golem would have cost you two cards in total. Ouch.
I tested skyship weatherlight back before paradox engine existed.
I used to use it to go and get other como pieces and enablers. I found it a bit on the slow side for the cost, plus there's the risk that you'll lose the exiled cards. I know you'd only ever go for a single card to bypass the 'random' aspect.
If it put the card to the battlefield rather to hand it'd be better but not everything can be a planar bridge!
For the cost I'd rather run planar portal again as a safer way to send cards to hand.
Planar Portal costs a whopping 4 more mana to get the card you want though, which isn't trivial. Even if we had the mana to do that, it would cost a mere 1 mana more to use Skyship Weatherlight to tutor up and cast Paradox Engine (12 mana to put a card in hand vs 13 mana to put Engine in hand to then cast Engine). I mentioned the card since the only thing I ever feel like I need is the Engine, with it in play winning is just granted and mana becomes an arbitrary concept let alone a game mechanic. We don't get many tutors in colorless, and an 8-mana Demonic Tutor is just something I think we have to live with.
Also, why would you ever cast it and then let it sit around a rotation at the table? If you're able to activate it, even if they destroy it in response you still get the card.
I was stung a few times when skyship weatherlight was on the stack an opponent would destoy a mana rock that meant I couldn't activate it when it had entered, meaning I had to search for something menial that didn't matter if the skyship was destroyed before I could untap and activate it for the 'random card'. Planar portal does cost the additional four more than weatherlight but it's much more versatile. 12 mana for a card it expensive, that's why I no longer run it and ring of three wishes and planar bridgeare included.
I guess when I was using the skyship there wasn't a 'one card that fixes everything' in the deck like paradox engine so whatever I was searching for tended to be the second part of a two card combo. Maybe I need to re-test it an keep aiming it at the engine.
You know you can activate mana rocks for their mana abilities if they try and destroy them right? You float the mana. That seems like something extremely weird was happening on the board or you missed that. And yeah, Paradox Engine just wins the game every time it comes down for me, its easily a one-card-combo in the deck.
Yeah, but for some reason I couldn't. I don't remember the exact reason but I was left high and dry with it.
So long ago I can't remember the boards state.
I'll test it again and see where we land. I was playing the deck out with skyship weatherlight to myself last night and it seems like it'd be pretty potent with paradox engine underneath it. I'll try it out in practise when I next play
So, im branching out to Kruphix, God of Horizons Eldrazi (atleast the big and cool ones) EDH. I think it can be cool. I usually really dislike UG but this feels sort of right.
Yeah, anything with a huge colourless mana cost works well with kruphix, he's a cool commander.
Still. Playing with lands that tap for colour seems a bit complicated to me!
Hey, welcome to the forum.
Glad the thread has been useful to you!
Nice list, I can see why your opponents would hate sitting across from you.
When you say "make it better", are you looking to tune it further or make it more fun for your opponents to play against? Or make them hate it less?
Any reason Nevinyrral's Disk isn't on your list?
It's a great board wipe for when everything's against you plus you can lock out the table with darksteel forge which you already have.
lotus bloom is a weird one for me. Too slow in my opinion but can be good if you're running a salvaging station package.
Im just not a fan of something that comes in 3 turns later.
I assume you're running chaos wand to take out top deck tutors your opponents are running?
Or are you hitting that regularly with chromatic lantern in play to cast them?
looking to tune it further this deck doesn't make friends from what I've found. I played a game today and once everybody had scooped and I had to leave they slow clapped as I walked off haha.
Nevinyrral's Disk I know how good it is with darksteel forge but I am concerned that It'll hit my creatures when I need them most seeing as I don't run a lot of creatures.
Lotus bloom compared to LED I find If I am casting either at the beginning of the game i'd rather have Lotus Bloom. Soley because if either card is in my opening hand It's realistic that regardless of Bloom or LED he's coming out turn 4 regardless and if I have the choice of discarding my hand or not I'd rather keep my cards to give me more options. I mean I'd like to hear your take on it.
Chaos Wand is there for the interaction with Paradox engine and some mana rocks allowing me to untap my mana rocks and tap Chaos Wand again! It allows me to have access to other peoples decks and whats more fun then playing with other peoples cards Target the blue player - lets potentially get some draw cards, or extra turn cards or steal target permenants or bounce target permenant. Black players - let's grab hand removal or creature removal or tutor effects. etc etc with each colour theres a bunch of good instant and sorcerys in each colour pie. Basically I like having a card that gives me a tool box to everything. Yes it will wiff from time to time but I feel it's worth it.
EDIT - Just realised Chaos wand is probably not the right call for this deck considering that all artifacts tap for colourless aside from gilded lotus so seems I have a free slot in the deck to fill. Also conduit of ruin I am sitting on the fence about.
EDIT EDIT - if I active Chaos Wand surely I don't need Chromatic Lantern cause it says I can cast it without Paying it's mana cost right ?
I had to test it. Its been on my radar for so long but after actually using it its a dead draw. Completely out of place when the deck focuses on speed to be playing something with such a high cost that nets an extra 2 cards over the course of the game.
Geode Golem goes back in!
Thanks dude! We both put in quite a bit of time!
It's gonna sit out until someone throws a superfriends deck into the mix.
Next to test: Myr Welder!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
EDIT: After i got beaten by Yasova until i had 20 commander damage, i would've loved to keep blowing up his commander.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
When you're playing are there any cards that are in your hand that you can cast, but get pushed back for better ones?
You're looking for the cards that get passed over turn after turn and maybe only see play when you have too much mana to actually spend.
Try to forget 'that time when you cast card X and it made a huge impact and won the game that one time'. That metallity ruins your objectivity.
Or another technique I use.
Shuffle up the nonland cards in your deck and draw five cards. Take the two least effective cards and put it on the table. Put the other three in a separate pile.
Do this over and over putting the worst of five in a pile and the rest separately.
When you've gone through everything do it again with the pile of the worst.
Keep going until your pile gets smaller and smaller until you've weeded your way down to the last five of so cards.
Odds are, the one you should take out is one of those.
This technique only works if you know your deck inside out and know every interaction of those cards with the other cards you have.
Then the last thing you ask yourself when you have the cards you're looking to switch: Is this better or worse than the cards I'm replacing it with?
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
This isn't a bad way of doing it. Im just really attached to my cards. Sure im sort of spiky, i like good plays and powerful cards, but i also like the more casual aspect. In my case yes, maybe i should remove one of the bigger bombs and just play my commander more often. But yeah i'll have to look it over.
Im also gonna see if i can get some cards altered.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
I run less bomb creatures because my bomb is infinitely repeatable. I would rather play Kozilek in a turn over something like blightsteel colossus or emrakul, the promised end.
The card up that end of the Curve I want are planar bridge (and an activation of it) and ring of three wishes. I don’t count those as a 6 and 5 CMC. I see them as 14 and 10 so they fall into my ‘bomb cost cards’catagory.
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
But yeah,i know about that difference when it comes to our kozileks.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
It's the same as when I Mindslaver. I aim for someone with a strong position but with a way I can then wreck that player too.
Token decks with sac outlets for instance.
I smash up my other two opponents and then make the controlled player sac everything they have.
Or that typical Narset, use their infinite attacks to exile their library by attacking the other two players. Then in their next turn right after, draw dead!
Or the standard thing of waste his removal spells on random junk.
If you know your opponents decks well enough (and at this point I do) use their game winning turn to kill everyone apart from you!
Or my number one favorite thing to do. Path their own commander and declare 'it goes to exile' hahahaha
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Of course, when i end up in that spot and i remind myself that yes, i can exile their commander for good! Its so evil and soooo good!
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
edit: Yeah Geode Golem is total gas too, I'd never cut that card.
Emrakul, the Promised End and Mindslaver instantly kill people if they play powerful decks from my experience. Those cards have won me almost every game they have come down on, though Mindslaver has the issue where you need to let your opponents develop a little bit first - even before dropping it on the board, or they'll hedge against it.
Also, as a note on your post about Planar Bridge and Ring of Three Wishes: these cards are busted, but its extremely hard finding a slot for both. While Paradox Engine exists in my deck, its fully capable of winning through the titans, and even just Kozilek himself most of the time since I cast him on turn 4 usually. I run Bridge since I have the Kaladesh Invention version since its really pretty, and its more powerful in general and especially with Unwinding Clock - that just ends the game even if I don't have access to the engine.
I gave grinning totem a test a long while ago but found it wasn't for me. I did find it brilliant when I had chromatic lantern out and could use it to play anything from a player's library as land would tap for colour (after the rule change obviously).
The colourless tutors tend to be a tricky one to place in the deck literally because you have to play and activate in one movement, or they just get removed.
I used to play planar portal but 12 mana was asking a lot when ring of three wishes did a perfect job at 10 mana.
Speaking of paradox engine, guess who survived the January rules update???
THIS GUY!!!
So happy I still get to run those broken broken card
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Also, Grinning Totem can snag ramp, nuts stuff like Paradox Engine, or snipe stuff people try and tutor for or required cards for their own combos. I think that is more than useful enough. I also run both Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Chromatic Lantern, not to mention a decent amount of my rocks like Coalition Relic can tap for colored mana, so its never bad for me. Though I might try out Ring of Three Wishes if Grinning Totem ever under-performs - it's just that its great at killing a lot of the same kind of decks that Mindslaver is good against too, and those are some of the most dangerous for this deck to deal with.
Also, our decks are constructed very differently, my deck places a significantly larger emphasis on Kozilek himself as well as mana generation, so cards we each find good/bad may not be relevant and both of our lists.
Player A goes land go.
Player B is monoblue Azami + counterspells. He playes island + Mana Crypt.
I draw Geode Golem and play it, hoping he won't have a counter and sadly he did. If he didn't have that Mana Cryp! But oh well. Then he chained a bunch of timewarp effects into a win.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Then the countered geode golem would have cost you two cards in total. Ouch.
You can't win them all!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
@Runnin Ouch. Stuff like that can happen to anyone playing Magic, but that's a big oof moment right there.
I used to use it to go and get other como pieces and enablers. I found it a bit on the slow side for the cost, plus there's the risk that you'll lose the exiled cards. I know you'd only ever go for a single card to bypass the 'random' aspect.
If it put the card to the battlefield rather to hand it'd be better but not everything can be a planar bridge!
For the cost I'd rather run planar portal again as a safer way to send cards to hand.
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Also, why would you ever cast it and then let it sit around a rotation at the table? If you're able to activate it, even if they destroy it in response you still get the card.
Planar portal does cost the additional four more than weatherlight but it's much more versatile. 12 mana for a card it expensive, that's why I no longer run it and ring of three wishes and planar bridge are included.
I guess when I was using the skyship there wasn't a 'one card that fixes everything' in the deck like paradox engine so whatever I was searching for tended to be the second part of a two card combo. Maybe I need to re-test it an keep aiming it at the engine.
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
So long ago I can't remember the boards state.
I'll test it again and see where we land. I was playing the deck out with skyship weatherlight to myself last night and it seems like it'd be pretty potent with paradox engine underneath it. I'll try it out in practise when I next play
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Still. Playing with lands that tap for colour seems a bit complicated to me!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
My Local LGS hates when I play this deck, looking for suggestions to make it better!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/decks/9734-the-colourless-king-how-to-break-colourless
Glad the thread has been useful to you!
Nice list, I can see why your opponents would hate sitting across from you.
When you say "make it better", are you looking to tune it further or make it more fun for your opponents to play against? Or make them hate it less?
Any reason Nevinyrral's Disk isn't on your list?
It's a great board wipe for when everything's against you plus you can lock out the table with darksteel forge which you already have.
lotus bloom is a weird one for me. Too slow in my opinion but can be good if you're running a salvaging station package.
Im just not a fan of something that comes in 3 turns later.
I assume you're running chaos wand to take out top deck tutors your opponents are running?
Or are you hitting that regularly with chromatic lantern in play to cast them?
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Nevinyrral's Disk I know how good it is with darksteel forge but I am concerned that It'll hit my creatures when I need them most seeing as I don't run a lot of creatures.
Lotus bloom compared to LED I find If I am casting either at the beginning of the game i'd rather have Lotus Bloom. Soley because if either card is in my opening hand It's realistic that regardless of Bloom or LED he's coming out turn 4 regardless and if I have the choice of discarding my hand or not I'd rather keep my cards to give me more options. I mean I'd like to hear your take on it.
Chaos Wand is there for the interaction with Paradox engine and some mana rocks allowing me to untap my mana rocks and tap Chaos Wand again! It allows me to have access to other peoples decks and whats more fun then playing with other peoples cards
EDIT - Just realised Chaos wand is probably not the right call for this deck considering that all artifacts tap for colourless aside from gilded lotus so seems I have a free slot in the deck to fill. Also conduit of ruin I am sitting on the fence about.
EDIT EDIT - if I active Chaos Wand surely I don't need Chromatic Lantern cause it says I can cast it without Paying it's mana cost right ?