Also, for an additional protection effect is City of Solitude worth the inclusion?
Congrats on the Wheel of Fortune, the prices have been rocketing. As far as flexible spots go, I've rotated around a few directions before, but it was either creature heavy, graveyard recursion, combo heavy. So it's more around what might work best for your meta. With this in mind I've designed the deck for a disruption heavy games, so you could change out any of the following according to how often you think you'll be control lockedout.
City of Solitude is better card than the others, because it stops Strip Mine, etc, and other activation's which might thwart you. But not being a creature, means that you can't use your creature tutors to get that all important safe guard: Eldritch Evolution, Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith
I also toy around with the number of land/mana ramp cards. Because I'm used to Time Twister, Wheel of Fortunes, etc, early, I find that Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth are good with these types of games. But you could easily cut them if your games are slower and centered around more board wipes.
I have a question, have you thought about adding stuffy doll into the deck?
I have not. I can see it's another win-con, but you can only get one player, and just having a single win-condition in the deck has never failed me. It's just a case if you get to combo off or not.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I will take out the one shot effects for now like Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. Silence is bit harder to cut but, we will see how relevant it feels. After getting a foil, I'm very eager to try out Selvala, Heart of the Wilds but, she was another card I was looking at as kind of a flex spot. What do you think?
As far as City of Solitude goes, I agree that it is a bit harder to tutor for but, that was one of the reason I like it. It is tutorable with things like enlightened tutor, sterling grove or Academy Rector to protect us on a combo turn. I'll let you know how it works out.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I will take out the one shot effects for now like Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. Silence is bit harder to cut but, we will see how relevant it feels. After getting a foil, I'm very eager to try out Selvala, Heart of the Wilds but, she was another card I was looking at as kind of a flex spot. What do you think?
As far as City of Solitude goes, I agree that it is a bit harder to tutor for but, that was one of the reason I like it. It is tutorable with things like enlightened tutor, sterling grove or Academy Rector to protect us on a combo turn. I'll let you know how it works out.
I would keep the Silence as a staple, I've used it on opponents combo turns to shut them down as well, so it proactive as well as defensive.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds has been excellent in games where you don't have a mana doubler. She will allow you to play Zacama without the mana doublers, but still potentially combo off.
I really wanted to get even small value from Regal Force, but if you use Eldritch Evolution or Natural Order to get it, you've already sacrificed a creature, so your value is not good enough, with current low creature counts.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I will take out the one shot effects for now like Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. Silence is bit harder to cut but, we will see how relevant it feels. After getting a foil, I'm very eager to try out Selvala, Heart of the Wilds but, she was another card I was looking at as kind of a flex spot. What do you think?
As far as City of Solitude goes, I agree that it is a bit harder to tutor for but, that was one of the reason I like it. It is tutorable with things like enlightened tutor, sterling grove or Academy Rector to protect us on a combo turn. I'll let you know how it works out.
I would keep the Silence as a staple, I've used it on opponents combo turns to shut them down as well, so it proactive as well as defensive.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds has been excellent in games where you don't have a mana doubler. She will allow you to play Zacama without the mana doublers, but still potentially combo off.
I really wanted to get even small value from Regal Force, but if you use Eldritch Evolution or Natural Order to get it, you've already sacrificed a creature, so your value is not good enough, with current low creature counts.
That's a great point about Silence. I forgot about that use for it.
I agree with cutting Regal Force as the creature count just seems too low to make it worth it. What would be really great is if we a greater good effect on a creature but, I know that is just dreaming.
If I'm going the infinite land untaps combo direction, do you think Temur Sabertooth is enough or should I include any additional ways of getting Zacama back into my hand? I plan to keep all the sac and draw effects but, those aren't in line with the infinite plan.
If I'm going the infinite land untaps combo direction, do you think Temur Sabertooth is enough or should I include any additional ways of getting Zacama back into my hand? I plan to keep all the sac and draw effects but, those aren't in line with the infinite plan.
I just found the other bouncers are too slow. Honestly you're better off maybe playing an Eladamri's Call to up your Temur Sabertooth chances.
I've added a section the the primer, "Meta Changes", which hopefully gives a guide to possible changes. Shows a few of the "flexible" slots.
I just found the other bouncers are too slow. Honestly you're better off maybe playing an Eladamri's Call to up your Temur Sabertooth chances.
I've added a section the the primer, "Meta Changes", which hopefully gives a guide to possible changes. Shows a few of the "flexible" slots.[/quote]
Thanks for the updates! Good stuff. I was gold fishing the deck last night and can't wait to play it in a real game. I do plan on running Eladamri's Call as a way to fetch Temur Sabertooth or the other pieces I need in that moment. Tutoring never really seems like a bad thing.
Card draw is at an absolute premium for this deck. Now there is Hunter's Insight and Hunter's Prowess. The reason I don't play these is that it means that you have to wait a whole turn to attack and also have to also connect with Zacama, which in my opinion is just too slow and not reliable.
Now there are two different ways to use Grothama, All-Devouring in this deck.
1.) Use Zacama deal 3 damage to creature ability to kill it with 9 damage, draw 9 cards.
2.) Grothama, All-Devouring is the same in that you'd have to wait to attack with Zacama for them to fight, but at least you don't have to connect with him. Weirdly enough the fact that it kills Zacama is a bonus in this deck, as you get to recast Zacama producing more mana if you have your mana doubler.
The other thing, is that you can actually deal a further 6 damage with Zacama ability before it resolves that fight meaning that you'd draw 15 cards.
I'm not saying it's an automatic include to the deck, but I love the design and it does have merit as a possible card draw. The down side is that it gives your opponents a window to possible get the draw off it, so in reality probably too situational? I've been looking for a new card to test with the deck. Dominaria didn't have any revelations, so happy to try this one.
I love this Dinosaur so much, so thanks for making a good thread for this. I'll echo your sentiment about the incredible board control Zacama has when in play.
I know that you've already addressed some of the creature-centric builds, but I wanted to ask you to reconsider. There are some really good draw engines that are powered by creatures, both quality of creatures and quantity of creatures. I think it's worth exploring a little more. I'm not sure how prevalent Stax decks are in your meta, but I've had a lot of good success with a mana-dork package when they try to destroy lands or put them under a Winter Orb. There are enough elves that are 1 CMC so that you always have something to do T1. Let me post my own personal list real quick and I'll try and explain my rationale.
As a quick overview, my list is more of a mono-green ETB list with a splash of removal outside of green.
There are a lot of different ways to play Zacama, and they all have their merits. I've tried 3 different total strategy builds, creature heavy, mass removal for control, and storm centric. Honestly they are all as good as each other, and so just comes down to preferred play styles and what your meta might look like.
The creature heavy versions, does mean you get some great extra card draw and mana accelerates in mana dorks, so you can have explosive games, and there is a consistency to early turn game play.
Your deck looks great, I only have a few suggested changes you could make.
Thanks. It's amazing how quickly this deck can get to 9 mana to cast Zacama and the other expensive cards in the deck.
Good suggestion for the land. The karoo lands and the extra and drops are actually really good to net mana, as you mentioned. I forgot about the Lair, so I'll add it to replace Jungle Shrine.
The changes I've made to this deck over the past several months is pretty minimal. The most premium card type for this deck, still remains big card draw. So with this in mind I've added Experimental Frenzy and Grothama, All-Devouring. Two very spicy cards, both powerful and fun to play with. Experimental Frenzy has it's setbacks, as you are often looking to string together big draw cards. But you can really get ahead with this card, and ultimately once you've got massive amounts of mana you can use the destroy part of it to then free up your hand. I find by this time you've got everything you need. There are a lot of cards that help to mitigate the only "play one land a turn", plus there is a lot of cards that shuffle your library. Exploration and Azusa, Lost but Seeking allow you to play extra lands. There are 10 lands that shuffle your library. There are 16 spells that search you library.
I've already mentioned Grothama, All-Devouring in a few posts above. You don't play it out automatically, you want to be careful that opponents are not killing it. But you can play it out say the turn before or even in the same turn as Zacama. But it's still the safest to cast it the turn you can attack with Zacama. I still feel it's better than Hunter's Insight and Hunter's Prowess, as you are more likely to get blown out, or simply not connect when using these cards.
It also does the job of sending Zacama back to the command zone, which is surprisingly important when you are looking to recast it to gain even more mana.
I should also point out that Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith, Tooth and Nail, Eldritch Evolution, can get you Grothama, All-Devouring as potential card draw.
Finally I've been impressed with Pir's Whim. Just get's a lot of value, and searching for any land is really nice, often I'll go for one of the lands that provides two mana, so it feel like searching for two lands anyway. Then hitting opponents artifacts and enchantments, you'd be surprised how you just knock off some Sol Ring's early on sometimes, or even a Rhystic Study or some other annoying cards.
Alright I've given this thread the royal "Primer" treatment, as it's one of my nearest and dearest decks, and even this thread has a bit of nostalgia for me as it was one of the first decks I posted on MTGSalvation.
So if you check out the original post, I've created an animated digital card of Zacama, Primal Calamity. It's funny because the original thread had my very first effort of doing a "digital card" and since then I've gotten a lot better with creativity, so always wanted to do an animated version, but it does take time and patience. But once finished it is very satisfying on a personal level and it let's potential readers know that the threads are not flash-in-the-pan ideas, I put a lot of thought into my decks.
The "primer" is not completely finished, still some work I need to do on it, but I will be submitting it for [Primer] status soon.
I've done a general spruce up of formatting and general aesthetics, adding sections to help people with understanding the commander and deck better. I have made some deck changes, not much however, it's been a really solid core of cards.
Removed
- Pir's Whim
- Rolling Earthquake
- Exploration I did a major review of the budget deck list, as prices can fluctuate wildly over time, and so price jumps can make cards out-of-reach for a budget deck list.
I also added some innovations, but I need to flesh out the budget section in the primer to explain some of these interactions. Will do this in the next couple of days.
The only card that really caught my attention recently was Nikya of the Old Ways. Mana doublers are literally the best cards in the deck, however not being able to cast non-creature spells is too much of a down-side, especially for this deck.
I really thought hard about if I could integrate it, with the idea of using Zacama 2R on it twice if desperately needing to remove it. However the deck is mainly about non-creature spells in the end, so tying up mana like that seemed like too much of a going backwards plan, so just can't pull the trigger on even testing this Centaur Druid.
Glad to see this thread get revived again! I actually took my Zacama deck apart because it was too powerful... It was able to consistently dominate the board on T4 or T5, which is apparently too quick for my wife's Kaalia deck and my brother's Freyalise Eflball deck.
Guardian Project should be a good addition to the decklist as another source of card draw. It's been overperforming for me in my Arcades deck lately and doesn't draw as much ire as Panharmonicon does.
Rhythm of the Wild seems like a decent card from a flavor win and also as a way to "protect" Zacama. Getting haste on her is pretty good too and the +1/+1 counter can help make the "power matters" draw effects better for the deck.
Glad to see this thread get revived again! I actually took my Zacama deck apart because it was too powerful... It was able to consistently dominate the board on T4 or T5, which is apparently too quick for my wife's Kaalia deck and my brother's Freyalise Eflball deck.
Guardian Project should be a good addition to the decklist as another source of card draw. It's been overperforming for me in my Arcades deck lately and doesn't draw as much ire as Panharmonicon does.
Rhythm of the Wild seems like a decent card from a flavor win and also as a way to "protect" Zacama. Getting haste on her is pretty good too and the +1/+1 counter can help make the "power matters" draw effects better for the deck.
Guardian Project has been an instant add to my green creature heavy decks. That and Beast Whisperer have been the must add innovations to any deck that boasts at least 30 creatures.
Now you could say that if you're casting Zacama over and over again you get to draw a card each time, aka Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. This is true, but if you've set up recasting Zacama multiple times, that normally means that you've got it anyway, so minimal draw isn't the greatest.
That's why I've been keeping an eye on these types of cards, with Myth Unbound being the most appealing. But I still don't think it does enough immediately.
Rhythm of the Wild could be really great for the budget deck. I have a haste element to that deck that allows extra draw off the cards; Grothama, All-Devouring, Dragon Mage, Hunter's Insight, Hunter's Prowess, which is important. I've been wanting to add at least one more haste card, thinking about Surrak, the Hunt Caller, as it's another creature with power=5, which could matter with the draw (equal to creatures power) if Zacama is locked out, etc.
I'll give Rhythm of the Wild a try over Silence in the budget build as it's trading one "can't be countered" for another, and haste is super important, so makes sense.
I await eagerly every set for a potential mana doubler during set releases, and literally since Rival of Ixalan release with Zacama, the only thing we've gotten was Nikya of the Old Ways, and as I already pointed out the downside of Nikya just doesn't work towards a functional deck.
Nissa, Who Shakes the World has come along and is perfect for the deck. I've already designed the mana base with Vernal Bloom and Caged Sun in mind for trying to optimize on Forests and green, so it's easy to slide it right in and get the benefits.
Not only is the static ability a mana doubler, but you can use her [+1] to get additional mana.
Then the ultimate certainly sets you up to win fairly easily. I don't expect to [-8] much, but still it's another angle on the deck.
Very excited about adding this to the deck!
War of the Spark has been an awesome set for numerous playable cards for a number of my decks and I already got Nissa, Who Shakes the World for Zacama, but there is now also a variant on Green Sun's Zenith with Finale of Devastation.
I'm always looking for more mana doublers, draw cards and land ramp, and a card like this does all three.
You can search for a creature mana doubler, you can search for a creature draw card or even use it for cheap land ramp, especially with Dryad Arbor for GG.
I've had Dryad Arbor in the deck before, but took it out when I was trying out more mass removal cards, that unfortunately would remove it. But I don't have these anymore, and there is just too much of an upside with both Green Sun's Zenith and Finale of Devastation in the deck as a way to search for it.
Experimental Frenzy ended up being a bit inconsistent with bottleneck on lands and also the big draw cards eventually filling your hand and needing to remove it fairly quickly to get further with stringing a storm turn together.
Congrats on the Primer status, comrade. You've done an excellent job with writing solid Primers, so I commend you on your well-deserved recognition.
Appreciate it. It's taken a solid amount of my time creating these primers, but I really enjoy the process, and it helps both me and readers decipher what can be possible with these commanders.
Well deserved on the primer! This topic helped me a lot with building my own Zacama, Primal Calamity deck. Though I went a more creature centric route because I really wanted to play Wild Pair in a deck. My main issue has been people countering Zacama, Primal Calamity, which always feels really bad. I suppose I could make room for pyroblast and the likes, but cutting cool creatures for those is difficult.
Well deserved on the primer! This topic helped me a lot with building my own Zacama, Primal Calamity deck. Though I went a more creature centric route because I really wanted to play Wild Pair in a deck. My main issue has been people countering Zacama, Primal Calamity, which always feels really bad. I suppose I could make room for pyroblast and the likes, but cutting cool creatures for those is difficult.
Thank you. Wild Pair is an awesome card, and really fun to work out potential metrics with the creatures as well. That sort of thing is really up my alley. Check out my post I did on Baron Von Count when sliver bordered cards were allowed in commander for a period of time. https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/786542
You'll see I love anything to do with stipulations Same with my Niv-Mizzet Reborn decks, working with metrics and stipulations is just another level of puzzle solving for decks.
- Grand Abolisher
- Dosan the Falling Leaf
- Dragonlord Dromoka
- Pyroblast
- Red Elemental Blast
City of Solitude is better card than the others, because it stops Strip Mine, etc, and other activation's which might thwart you. But not being a creature, means that you can't use your creature tutors to get that all important safe guard: Eldritch Evolution, Natural Order, Green Sun's ZenithI also toy around with the number of land/mana ramp cards. Because I'm used to Time Twister, Wheel of Fortunes, etc, early, I find that Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth are good with these types of games. But you could easily cut them if your games are slower and centered around more board wipes.
I have not. I can see it's another win-con, but you can only get one player, and just having a single win-condition in the deck has never failed me. It's just a case if you get to combo off or not.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
As far as City of Solitude goes, I agree that it is a bit harder to tutor for but, that was one of the reason I like it. It is tutorable with things like enlightened tutor, sterling grove or Academy Rector to protect us on a combo turn. I'll let you know how it works out.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds has been excellent in games where you don't have a mana doubler. She will allow you to play Zacama without the mana doublers, but still potentially combo off.
These are the latest changes
Added
Removed
I really wanted to get even small value from Regal Force, but if you use Eldritch Evolution or Natural Order to get it, you've already sacrificed a creature, so your value is not good enough, with current low creature counts.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
That's a great point about Silence. I forgot about that use for it.
I agree with cutting Regal Force as the creature count just seems too low to make it worth it. What would be really great is if we a greater good effect on a creature but, I know that is just dreaming.
If I'm going the infinite land untaps combo direction, do you think Temur Sabertooth is enough or should I include any additional ways of getting Zacama back into my hand? I plan to keep all the sac and draw effects but, those aren't in line with the infinite plan.
I've added a section the the primer, "Meta Changes", which hopefully gives a guide to possible changes. Shows a few of the "flexible" slots.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I've added a section the the primer, "Meta Changes", which hopefully gives a guide to possible changes. Shows a few of the "flexible" slots.[/quote]
Thanks for the updates! Good stuff. I was gold fishing the deck last night and can't wait to play it in a real game. I do plan on running Eladamri's Call as a way to fetch Temur Sabertooth or the other pieces I need in that moment. Tutoring never really seems like a bad thing.
Card draw is at an absolute premium for this deck. Now there is Hunter's Insight and Hunter's Prowess. The reason I don't play these is that it means that you have to wait a whole turn to attack and also have to also connect with Zacama, which in my opinion is just too slow and not reliable.
Now there are two different ways to use Grothama, All-Devouring in this deck.
1.) Use Zacama deal 3 damage to creature ability to kill it with 9 damage, draw 9 cards.
2.) Grothama, All-Devouring is the same in that you'd have to wait to attack with Zacama for them to fight, but at least you don't have to connect with him. Weirdly enough the fact that it kills Zacama is a bonus in this deck, as you get to recast Zacama producing more mana if you have your mana doubler.
The other thing, is that you can actually deal a further 6 damage with Zacama ability before it resolves that fight meaning that you'd draw 15 cards.
I'm not saying it's an automatic include to the deck, but I love the design and it does have merit as a possible card draw. The down side is that it gives your opponents a window to possible get the draw off it, so in reality probably too situational? I've been looking for a new card to test with the deck. Dominaria didn't have any revelations, so happy to try this one.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I know that you've already addressed some of the creature-centric builds, but I wanted to ask you to reconsider. There are some really good draw engines that are powered by creatures, both quality of creatures and quantity of creatures. I think it's worth exploring a little more. I'm not sure how prevalent Stax decks are in your meta, but I've had a lot of good success with a mana-dork package when they try to destroy lands or put them under a Winter Orb. There are enough elves that are 1 CMC so that you always have something to do T1. Let me post my own personal list real quick and I'll try and explain my rationale.
As a quick overview, my list is more of a mono-green ETB list with a splash of removal outside of green.
9x Zacama, Primal Calamity
Mana Sources (30)
0x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Utopia Sprawl
1x Wild Growth
1x Exploration
1x Arbor Elf
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Llanowar Elves
2x Nature's Lore
2x Priest of Titania
3x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
3x Wayward Swordtooth
3x Wood Elves
3x Farhaven Elf
3x Cultivate
3x Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
3x Mana Flare
3x Heartbeat of Spring
4x Keeper of Progenitus
4x Vernal Bloom
4x Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4x Tempt with Discovery
4x Skyshroud Claim
5x Zhur-Taa Ancient
5x Mirari's Wake
6x Regal Behemoth
6x Mana Reflection
6x Ulvenwald Hydra
7x Zendikar Resurgent
8x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
2x Sylvan Library
2x Elvish Visionary
2x Life's Legacy
3x Elemental Bond
3x Lifecrafter's Bestiary
4x Momentous Fall
4x Greater Good
5x Grothama, All-Devouring
5x Garruk's Packleader
5x Garruk, Primal Hunter
5x Shamanic Revelation
6x Soul of the Harvest
6x Rishkar's Expertise
7x Regal Force
Tutors (4)
1x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Fierce Empath
3x Eldritch Evolution
6x Woodland Bellower
Combo Package (5)
2x Horned Kavu
3x Fleetfoot Panther
3x Cloudstone Curio
4x Panharmonicon
4x Temur Sabertooth
Removal/Control (10)
1x Rolling Earthquake
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Pyroblast
3x Reclamation Sage
3x Krosan Grip
3x Beast Within
5x Acidic Slime
6x Duplicant
6x Warstorm Surge
8x Terastodon
3x Eternal Witness
6x Greenwarden of Murasa
Lands (34)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Shivan Gorge
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Gruul Turf
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Jungle Shrine
1x Taiga
1x Plateau
1x Savannah
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Gardens
1x Scattered Groves
1x Sheltered Thicket
1x Canopy Vista
1x Cinder Glade
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Windswept Heath
1x Arid Mesa
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Bloodstained Mire
6x Forest
3x Mountain
2x Plains
There's 31 creatures in the deck, which makes Gaea's Cradle a real and effective mana source. There's also enough permanents for Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to be another Cradle effect so that you need less lands for Zacama to combo off. A significant number of the creatures have power 3 or greater to trigger Elemental Bond and Garruk's Packleader while also being really powerful creatures to make Momentous Fall, Life's Legacy, and Rishkar's Expertise still worthwhile. Because the creature count also makes Shamanic Revelation a decent draw spell that consistently draws 3+ cards. Adding a mana dork package also makes Harvester of Souls a better card, as does Lifecrafter's BestiaryThere's approximately 15 ETB creatures so that Panharmonicon, Cloudstone Curio, Temur Sabertooth, and the self-blinkers like Horned Kavu can get maximum effectiveness. I've had a lot of great success with it, and I haven't missed Caged Sun too much. With the addition of Elemental Bond and Garruk's Packleader, you can draw your deck with the Zacama loop.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
The creature heavy versions, does mean you get some great extra card draw and mana accelerates in mana dorks, so you can have explosive games, and there is a consistency to early turn game play.
Your deck looks great, I only have a few suggested changes you could make.
Primordial Sage => Garruk's Packleader
Fierce Empath => Natural Order
Jungle Shrine => Rith's Grove - with Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Wayward Swordtooth, Mina and Denn, Wildborn and only 34 land, you'd be surprised at how often bouncing lands actually means that you get an additional mana.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Good suggestion for the land. The karoo lands and the extra and drops are actually really good to net mana, as you mentioned. I forgot about the Lair, so I'll add it to replace Jungle Shrine.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Experimental Frenzy has it's setbacks, as you are often looking to string together big draw cards. But you can really get ahead with this card, and ultimately once you've got massive amounts of mana you can use the destroy part of it to then free up your hand. I find by this time you've got everything you need. There are a lot of cards that help to mitigate the only "play one land a turn", plus there is a lot of cards that shuffle your library.
Exploration and Azusa, Lost but Seeking allow you to play extra lands. There are 10 lands that shuffle your library. There are 16 spells that search you library.
I've already mentioned Grothama, All-Devouring in a few posts above. You don't play it out automatically, you want to be careful that opponents are not killing it. But you can play it out say the turn before or even in the same turn as Zacama. But it's still the safest to cast it the turn you can attack with Zacama. I still feel it's better than Hunter's Insight and Hunter's Prowess, as you are more likely to get blown out, or simply not connect when using these cards.
It also does the job of sending Zacama back to the command zone, which is surprisingly important when you are looking to recast it to gain even more mana.
I should also point out that Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith, Tooth and Nail, Eldritch Evolution, can get you Grothama, All-Devouring as potential card draw.
Finally I've been impressed with Pir's Whim. Just get's a lot of value, and searching for any land is really nice, often I'll go for one of the lands that provides two mana, so it feel like searching for two lands anyway. Then hitting opponents artifacts and enchantments, you'd be surprised how you just knock off some Sol Ring's early on sometimes, or even a Rhystic Study or some other annoying cards.
Added
+ Experimental Frenzy
+ Pir's Whim
+ Grothama, All-Devouring
+ Tooth and Nail
+ Seasons Past
Removed
- Carpet of Flowers
- Life from the Loam
- Basalt Monolith
- Dragonlord Dromoka
- Past in Flames
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
So if you check out the original post, I've created an animated digital card of Zacama, Primal Calamity. It's funny because the original thread had my very first effort of doing a "digital card" and since then I've gotten a lot better with creativity, so always wanted to do an animated version, but it does take time and patience. But once finished it is very satisfying on a personal level and it let's potential readers know that the threads are not flash-in-the-pan ideas, I put a lot of thought into my decks.
The "primer" is not completely finished, still some work I need to do on it, but I will be submitting it for [Primer] status soon.
I've done a general spruce up of formatting and general aesthetics, adding sections to help people with understanding the commander and deck better.
I have made some deck changes, not much however, it's been a really solid core of cards.
Primer
Added
+ Conflagrate
+ Blighted Woodland
+ Fire-lit Thicket
Removed
- Pir's Whim
- Rolling Earthquake
- Exploration
I did a major review of the budget deck list, as prices can fluctuate wildly over time, and so price jumps can make cards out-of-reach for a budget deck list.
I also added some innovations, but I need to flesh out the budget section in the primer to explain some of these interactions. Will do this in the next couple of days.
Budget deck
Added
+ Reality Scramble
+ Experimental Frenzy
+ Sandstone Oracle
+ Pir's Whim
+ Conflagrate
+ Hour of Promise
+ Boundless Realms
+ Dragon Mage
+ Boros Garrison
+ Gruul Turf
+ Selesnya Sanctuary
+ Blighted Woodland
+ Myriad Landscape
Removed
- Winter's Night
- Rolling Earthquake
- Path to Exile
- Noxious Revival
- Seeds of Innocence
- Stony Silence
- Pyroblast
- Heroic Intervention
- 3 x Forest
- Plains
- Mountain
I really thought hard about if I could integrate it, with the idea of using Zacama 2R on it twice if desperately needing to remove it. However the deck is mainly about non-creature spells in the end, so tying up mana like that seemed like too much of a going backwards plan, so just can't pull the trigger on even testing this Centaur Druid.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Guardian Project should be a good addition to the decklist as another source of card draw. It's been overperforming for me in my Arcades deck lately and doesn't draw as much ire as Panharmonicon does.
Rhythm of the Wild seems like a decent card from a flavor win and also as a way to "protect" Zacama. Getting haste on her is pretty good too and the +1/+1 counter can help make the "power matters" draw effects better for the deck.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
The thing is that the current deck only has 16 creatures, so not a lot. I have played a creature heavy version in the past running mana dorks for extra speed, and then using Regal Force as another card draw. I tried this version because of Eldritch Evolution, Natural Order, Tooth and Nail, Green Sun's Zenith ability to get Regal Force as all potential additional draw cards.
So in that version Guardian Project would be great, along with Beast Whisperer.
Now you could say that if you're casting Zacama over and over again you get to draw a card each time, aka Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. This is true, but if you've set up recasting Zacama multiple times, that normally means that you've got it anyway, so minimal draw isn't the greatest.
That's why I've been keeping an eye on these types of cards, with Myth Unbound being the most appealing. But I still don't think it does enough immediately.
Rhythm of the Wild could be really great for the budget deck. I have a haste element to that deck that allows extra draw off the cards; Grothama, All-Devouring, Dragon Mage, Hunter's Insight, Hunter's Prowess, which is important. I've been wanting to add at least one more haste card, thinking about Surrak, the Hunt Caller, as it's another creature with power=5, which could matter with the draw (equal to creatures power) if Zacama is locked out, etc.
I'll give Rhythm of the Wild a try over Silence in the budget build as it's trading one "can't be countered" for another, and haste is super important, so makes sense.
Budget Deck
Added
+ Rhythm of the Wild
Removed
- Silence
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I await eagerly every set for a potential mana doubler during set releases, and literally since Rival of Ixalan release with Zacama, the only thing we've gotten was Nikya of the Old Ways, and as I already pointed out the downside of Nikya just doesn't work towards a functional deck.
Nissa, Who Shakes the World has come along and is perfect for the deck. I've already designed the mana base with Vernal Bloom and Caged Sun in mind for trying to optimize on Forests and green, so it's easy to slide it right in and get the benefits.
Not only is the static ability a mana doubler, but you can use her [+1] to get additional mana.
Then the ultimate certainly sets you up to win fairly easily. I don't expect to [-8] much, but still it's another angle on the deck.
Very excited about adding this to the deck!
Primer
Added
+ Nissa, Who Shakes the World
Removed
- Teferi's Protection
Budget
Added
+ Nissa, Who Shakes the World
Removed
- Rude Awakening
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
War of the Spark has been an awesome set for numerous playable cards for a number of my decks and I already got Nissa, Who Shakes the World for Zacama, but there is now also a variant on Green Sun's Zenith with Finale of Devastation.
I'm always looking for more mana doublers, draw cards and land ramp, and a card like this does all three.
You can search for a creature mana doubler, you can search for a creature draw card or even use it for cheap land ramp, especially with Dryad Arbor for GG.
Primer
Added
+ Finale of Devastation
+ Dryad Arbor
Removed
- Experimental Frenzy
- Ancient Tomb
I've had Dryad Arbor in the deck before, but took it out when I was trying out more mass removal cards, that unfortunately would remove it. But I don't have these anymore, and there is just too much of an upside with both Green Sun's Zenith and Finale of Devastation in the deck as a way to search for it.
Experimental Frenzy ended up being a bit inconsistent with bottleneck on lands and also the big draw cards eventually filling your hand and needing to remove it fairly quickly to get further with stringing a storm turn together.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/786542
You'll see I love anything to do with stipulations Same with my Niv-Mizzet Reborn decks, working with metrics and stipulations is just another level of puzzle solving for decks.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith