I like life gain decks and I've built a few of them over the years using Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and Karlov of the Ghost Council and others, but Licia, Sanguine Tribune offers something unique among them. Most life gain decks either want to have a high life total or want to have frequent life gains, but a Licia deck wants to gain large chunks of life during your turn in order to cast and recast the Commander as cheaply as possible. This presented an interesting deck building challenge as some typical life gain cards, like Soul Warden, are not as useful in this deck as in other life gain decks.
Mana Base: With a Mardu-land base, I decided to go with what I had, which is fetch lands, dual lands, and Ravnica's shock lands. However, there are a number of other lands that could go in those places along with more basic lands.
Spells: Beyond a mix of card draw and removal spells, the deck features some cards to enhance the life gain theme with Alhammarret's Archive and Venser's Journal, along with one game winning combo with Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond. Again, the deck is trying to balance a mix of big life gain with small, multiple triggers by including Blind Obedience, Bloodchief Ascension, and Sun Droplet. Cradle of Vitality is good in the deck as it allows you to translate large life gains into a large number of +1/+1 counters for a small cost.
Conclusion:
This has been an interesting deck to build and try out, but I feel I don't have the balance quite right on the big life gains vs. small triggers, and I am still trying to work that out.
You really need big pay off cards for life gain and there is just not enough of them to make the overload on this worth while. Life gain is probably one of the weakest elements of Commander in general.
Just being able to cast your Commander out is pretty weak in general, especially as it doesn't have evasion or haste. Its a shame it doesn't have Green in its colors as pay off cards like Greater Good, etc would make recurring casting more profitable. But even then the WBR minimum cost means that recursion isn't that great.
I like Brion Stoutarm. It has lifelink and can give me something to do with a high power Licia. That's nice.
I've always been unsure about cards like Ad Nauseam. I've seen it used in dedicated combo decks where the intention is that you draw most of the cards in your deck with it or all of the cards if you are going for something like Angel's Grace, but in a deck like this what should the goal be? Is it treated as a way to full the hand back up since we will likely have the life to pay for that?
I wish Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter could be more pinpoint with his removal power. You lose all of the +1/+1 counters to get rid of one thing.
I like Brion Stoutarm. It has lifelink and can give me something to do with a high power Licia. That's nice.
I've always been unsure about cards like Ad Nauseam. I've seen it used in dedicated combo decks where the intention is that you draw most of the cards in your deck with it or all of the cards if you are going for something like Angel's Grace, but in a deck like this what should the goal be? Is it treated as a way to full the hand back up since we will likely have the life to pay for that?
I wish Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter could be more pinpoint with his removal power. You lose all of the +1/+1 counters to get rid of one thing.
Still Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter gives you a reason to keep recasting Licia, Sanguine Tribune, as you can just make him large on his own, and at least has flying so some evasion. The threat of being able to kill a creature at will, often changes decisions of people playing out there own combo creatures for fear of getting killed. Ad Nauseam is normally reserved for combo decks, but if your deck was more streamlined, then even a value draw 5-7 cards at the cost of like 10-20 life can be worthwhile. Not in this deck I'd agree, its too bulky.
Chandra's Ignition is the one card I'm surprised isn't here. It's already a decent removal spell, but cast it targeting a pumped-up Licia and you wipe the board, fireball your opponents and gain a massive chunk of life. It + Aetherflux Reservoir = game over.
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EDH/Commander
(W/U)(W/U)Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
(W/B)(W/B)Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
(R/G)(R/G)Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
(B/G)(G/U)Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe Build
(W/U)(U/B)Aminatou, the Fateshifter: And a Child Shall Lead Them (superfriends)
Still Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter gives you a reason to keep recasting Licia, Sanguine Tribune, as you can just make him large on his own, and at least has flying so some evasion. The threat of being able to kill a creature at will, often changes decisions of people playing out there own combo creatures for fear of getting killed.
Well reasoned and it is another creature with lifelink, which goes along with what the deck is doing. I think I'll find some room for it in the deck.
Wow, that could be a lot of life gain with the right creature. I think I just missed the synergy between it and a lifelink creature. I will definitely have to find room for it in the deck.
I definitely recommend those life lands in exchange for the expensive lands in the original list, along with the Kabira Crossroads.
I played this deck at our recent Commander night and it was quite a lot of fun. There was a lot of life gain in the deck and it worked out well. I never drew Chandra's Ignition, but playing the deck showed how powerful it would be had I drawn it.
One game, there were a few turns when no other players had removal that they wanted to spend against me and I had both Licia, Sanguine Tribune in play along with Brion Stoutarm. I swung with Licia against a particular player, and she had six extra +1/+1 counters on her (three from last turn and three more from this turn), gaining me 10 life, and then I could throw her at that same player with Brion, gaining me 10 more life, and then I could replay her for just RWB. It was quite fun.
I did draw Karlov and the deck does lack the frequent life gain triggers that make him shine and I am wondering if he and the Archangel of Thune are even worth their slots in the deck. One game with Karlov he sat on my board for three turns without me gaining any life until I finally gained five life in a single chunk and he gained just two +1/+1 counters. Given the way the deck work, I think I might be better off with a card like Tithe Drinker or something like that that can give me more life in a single turn to work with Licia or a Cradle of Vitality. The Archangel is a harder sell since it does give a benefit to my entire board, but again, there might be cards that are just better given the more infrequent nature of the life gain triggers.
Besides Chandra's Ignition, Hatred is another must run imo. I run it in my own Licia deck and if it coems through unblocked... that 21 commander damage to the face... surprise! you also immediately get all your life back.
And Unspeakable Symbol. The card is just so good. It really screws over combat math and with the ridiculous amounts of life you can gain with this deck it is a really big threat just on it's own. It's like a permanent mini hatred. Think about it: Assuming you can give Licia haste (It's mardu after all) if you have this on the board then you are threatening an instant commander damage kill from the command zone as long as you are on 48 life or higher (Base 4/4, 5 life to give 3 +1/+1 counters with her own ability, 42 life for another 14 +1/+1 counters). And after performing such a coup de grace, you're on at least 22 life so it's not that much of a blowout.
Both cards cost less than €1 so go for it. you won't regret it :).
Additional good cards are Slaughter (the buyback is easy for this deck) and Spirit Loop (Because of how it is worded, it actually stacks with lifelink.)
I think Rhox Faithmender can go. The deck already gains way enough life so it's just overkill plus it doesn't do much on it's own. And if you are keen on having a doubling effect, then Boon Reflection is better imo as it is much harder to remove.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
It is hard to figure out what to take out since I made the deck and I certainly tried to make the best deck possible. Cards like Blind Obedience and Aura of Silence are quite good, but something has to go. If other people have suggestions of what to take out instead, I am open to ideas.
Another way of gaining a massive amount of life (and dealing loads of damage to your opponents) is with life resets or switches and life sinks. The former includes cards like Oketra's Last Mercy and Resolute Archangel which while "resetting" your life total to 40, is read by the game as gaining life to get you to 40 life (i.e. gaining a ton of life). Life switching can be easily done with cards like Axis of Moraltity, Mirror Universe, Magus of the Mirror and Soul Conduit which causes you to gain life and your opponents to lose that much life to adjust the life totals (and yes they work with both life doublers like Boon Reflection and Alhammeret's Archive and the life lose works with Wound Reflection). These two make it very easy to replay Licia as need be. They way they can be enabled is via the life sinks (one of which is Licia). Crovax, Ascendant Hero, Selenia, Dark Angel and Treasonous Ogre all allow you to pay life for an effect to maximize the amount of life you can gain with the earlier cards (and potentially deal to your opponent with the life switching cards).
Crovax, Ascendant Hero is very similar to Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. It costs 1 less, has synergy with the life gain parts of the deck, but only gives a -1/-1 penalty and then only to non-white creatures, including my own. I just don't see the value unless there is another card to take out for it.
Treasonous Ogre is a good card that can generate quite a lot of mana for the deck. We are not going for any kind of combo with that extra mana, but since we often have a lot of life to work with, it could be useful in the deck.
Axis of Mortality is interesting to me because of the repeatable effect which can give me lots of life gain, as you describe, but it doesn't have to switch between me and another player. On turns when there is no life for me to gain from a switch, I can simply switch other players' life totals around as I see fit. I like that.
Oketra's Last Mercy is cheap, with lots of life gain potential, but if I have lots of life already, it is just a dead card that does nothing. The card above continues to be useful even when I have lots of life, where this one does not.
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Introduction:
I like life gain decks and I've built a few of them over the years using Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and Karlov of the Ghost Council and others, but Licia, Sanguine Tribune offers something unique among them. Most life gain decks either want to have a high life total or want to have frequent life gains, but a Licia deck wants to gain large chunks of life during your turn in order to cast and recast the Commander as cheaply as possible. This presented an interesting deck building challenge as some typical life gain cards, like Soul Warden, are not as useful in this deck as in other life gain decks.
The Deck:
1 Licia, Sanguine Tribune
Lands - 35 total
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 City of Brass
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Strip Mine
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Academy Rector
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder
1 Cliffhaven Vampire
1 Crested Sunmare
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Karlov of the Ghost Council
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Martyr of Sands
1 Rhox Faithmender
1 Sangromancer
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Sun Titan
1 Tithe Drinker
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Vona, Butcher of Magan
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalkers - 1 total
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Acceleration - 5 total
1 Boros Signet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Talisman of Indulgence
Card Draw - 6 total
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Read the Bones
1 Well of Lost Dreams
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Wretched Confluence
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
Removal - 14 total
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Aura of Silence
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Chaos Warp
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Crackling Doom
1 Fumigate
1 Hide // Seek
1 Path to Exile
1 Shattering Spree
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Toxic Deluge
Spells - 13 total
1 Alhammarret's Archive
1 Blind Obedience
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Cradle of Vitality
1 Debt to the Deathless
1 Exquisite Blood
1 Exsanguinate
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sanguine Bond
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sun Droplet
1 Venser's Journal
1 Whip of Erebos
Deck Description:
Mana Base: With a Mardu-land base, I decided to go with what I had, which is fetch lands, dual lands, and Ravnica's shock lands. However, there are a number of other lands that could go in those places along with more basic lands.
Creatures: There are plenty of lifelink creatures to help you gain big chunks of life, like Baneslayer Angel, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and Serra Ascendant. There are also a few general utility cards like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Weathered Wayfarer to help the deck out. There are a few good creatures that still trigger off of multiple life gain triggers with Karlov of the Ghost Council and Archangel of Thune, but I felt they were too good not to include in the deck.
Spells: Beyond a mix of card draw and removal spells, the deck features some cards to enhance the life gain theme with Alhammarret's Archive and Venser's Journal, along with one game winning combo with Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond. Again, the deck is trying to balance a mix of big life gain with small, multiple triggers by including Blind Obedience, Bloodchief Ascension, and Sun Droplet. Cradle of Vitality is good in the deck as it allows you to translate large life gains into a large number of +1/+1 counters for a small cost.
Conclusion:
This has been an interesting deck to build and try out, but I feel I don't have the balance quite right on the big life gains vs. small triggers, and I am still trying to work that out.
Comments and thoughts are welcome.
Im thinking Pristine Talisman is a great card here because you have a lot of high costed creatures and this also helps the small triggers of life
[EDH In Development] Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Queen Marchesa | Ruhan of the Fomori | Yahenni, Undying Partisan
[EDH Retired] Ertai, The Corrupted | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Tariel, Reckoner of Souls | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
[Modern] Stuffy Doll Combo Burn | Demigod of Revenge
Just being able to cast your Commander out is pretty weak in general, especially as it doesn't have evasion or haste. Its a shame it doesn't have Green in its colors as pay off cards like Greater Good, etc would make recurring casting more profitable. But even then the WBR minimum cost means that recursion isn't that great.
Cards that you can exchange life for advantage:
Necrologia
Ad Nauseam
Cruel Bargain
Infernal Contract
Cards that take advantage of Power
Bloodshot Cyclops
Brion Stoutarm
Ghoulcaller Gisa
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Xathrid Demon
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I've always been unsure about cards like Ad Nauseam. I've seen it used in dedicated combo decks where the intention is that you draw most of the cards in your deck with it or all of the cards if you are going for something like Angel's Grace, but in a deck like this what should the goal be? Is it treated as a way to full the hand back up since we will likely have the life to pay for that?
I wish Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter could be more pinpoint with his removal power. You lose all of the +1/+1 counters to get rid of one thing.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Well reasoned and it is another creature with lifelink, which goes along with what the deck is doing. I think I'll find some room for it in the deck.
Wow, that could be a lot of life gain with the right creature. I think I just missed the synergy between it and a lifelink creature. I will definitely have to find room for it in the deck.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I played this deck at our recent Commander night and it was quite a lot of fun. There was a lot of life gain in the deck and it worked out well. I never drew Chandra's Ignition, but playing the deck showed how powerful it would be had I drawn it.
One game, there were a few turns when no other players had removal that they wanted to spend against me and I had both Licia, Sanguine Tribune in play along with Brion Stoutarm. I swung with Licia against a particular player, and she had six extra +1/+1 counters on her (three from last turn and three more from this turn), gaining me 10 life, and then I could throw her at that same player with Brion, gaining me 10 more life, and then I could replay her for just RWB. It was quite fun.
I did draw Karlov and the deck does lack the frequent life gain triggers that make him shine and I am wondering if he and the Archangel of Thune are even worth their slots in the deck. One game with Karlov he sat on my board for three turns without me gaining any life until I finally gained five life in a single chunk and he gained just two +1/+1 counters. Given the way the deck work, I think I might be better off with a card like Tithe Drinker or something like that that can give me more life in a single turn to work with Licia or a Cradle of Vitality. The Archangel is a harder sell since it does give a benefit to my entire board, but again, there might be cards that are just better given the more infrequent nature of the life gain triggers.
And Unspeakable Symbol. The card is just so good. It really screws over combat math and with the ridiculous amounts of life you can gain with this deck it is a really big threat just on it's own. It's like a permanent mini hatred. Think about it: Assuming you can give Licia haste (It's mardu after all) if you have this on the board then you are threatening an instant commander damage kill from the command zone as long as you are on 48 life or higher (Base 4/4, 5 life to give 3 +1/+1 counters with her own ability, 42 life for another 14 +1/+1 counters). And after performing such a coup de grace, you're on at least 22 life so it's not that much of a blowout.
Both cards cost less than €1 so go for it. you won't regret it :).
Additional good cards are Slaughter (the buyback is easy for this deck) and Spirit Loop (Because of how it is worded, it actually stacks with lifelink.)
I think Rhox Faithmender can go. The deck already gains way enough life so it's just overkill plus it doesn't do much on it's own. And if you are keen on having a doubling effect, then Boon Reflection is better imo as it is much harder to remove.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Here are the cards I am going to be changing from the deck list posted above.
1 Crested Sunmare
1 Karlov of the Ghost Council
1 Tithe Drinker
1 Martyr of Sands
1 Rhox Faithmender
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Blind Obedience
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Debt to the Deathless
It is hard to figure out what to take out since I made the deck and I certainly tried to make the best deck possible. Cards like Blind Obedience and Aura of Silence are quite good, but something has to go. If other people have suggestions of what to take out instead, I am open to ideas.
1 Anger
1 Brion Stoutarm
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Slaughter
1 Boon Reflection
1 Hatred
1 Spirit Loop
1 Unspeakable Symbol
If these changes work out, I will change the original post to reflect the new deck list.
Treasonous Ogre is a good card that can generate quite a lot of mana for the deck. We are not going for any kind of combo with that extra mana, but since we often have a lot of life to work with, it could be useful in the deck.
Axis of Mortality is interesting to me because of the repeatable effect which can give me lots of life gain, as you describe, but it doesn't have to switch between me and another player. On turns when there is no life for me to gain from a switch, I can simply switch other players' life totals around as I see fit. I like that.
Oketra's Last Mercy is cheap, with lots of life gain potential, but if I have lots of life already, it is just a dead card that does nothing. The card above continues to be useful even when I have lots of life, where this one does not.