Cold Storage -> Synod Sanctum: Cold Storage was actually fine, Synod Sanctum just seems like it is better the turn it comes out. Cold Storage is just better if there are two dragons I want to make permanent but it is super greedy and needs to be played ahead of time. Wall of Stone -> Thundermaw Hellkite: There was a sudden influx of flying commanders, which has made this more valuable. Aether Membrane -> Worldgorger Dragon: I know I am going to get a lot of flak for this, but Worldgorger can be good as a hail mary, counter wrath. I understand if this gets spot removed with it's ability on the stack, you are just going to lose. It's being included to get around wraths, combat tricks, etc. Ancient Tomb -> Snow-Covered Mountain Kher Keep -> Snow-Covered Mountain Temple of the False God -> Snow-Covered Mountain High Market -> Snow-Covered Mountain Miren, the Moaning Well -> Snow-Covered Mountain
I ended up wanting more red mana symbols and mountain synergy, so I am cutting some utility lands. Ancient Tomb/Temple of the False God are more aggressive cuts, but I always wanted a Mountain whenever I got these. High Market/Miren are being cut, because I run no recursion. Kher Keep was just a value add, so it is also being cut.
The above cards, all make the deck a lot more aggressive, however you can only find so many dragons before you run out of steam. Which means tricks when you spit out two dragons are a lot more condemning. This deck is more oriented for using Zirilan as a tool box when needed, otherwise. Just playing dragons is fine. If you expect to be in three player games often, I would say include these cards, however I find myself in 3-5 player games often so I design for 5 player games that transition to 3 player easily.
Thoughts on Panharmonicon? Your deck isnt exactly an ETB deck but it does have some really strong positive interaction with a few tutor targets and a few others.
Overall the list looks pretty good, the biggest weaknesses I see are in low-end creatures. aether membrane, wall of stone, and goblin settler all see very subpar (goblin settler in particular is a really usual card for Zirilan, it's fairly expensive $$$-wise, and it's really mediocre in 4-player games, and has little synergy with the commander - seems like more of a feldon of the third path card).
I'd recommend bogardan hellkite over spawn of thraxes. It'll usually deal more damage (you only have 20 mountains - you'd need to play 1/4 of them to deal 5!) and being able to distribute it is great, plus i'd rather pay 1 more to give it flash if it were in my hand. scourge of the throne is also an auto-include in zirilan imo.
I am dubious of dragonstorm being reasonable to get a high storm count on, and for it to be worth it (if you get board wiped I doubt you got much value), but by all means give it a shot.
My experience with cold storage and other expensive "perm" tools is that they're not worth it. closet, coffin, and endless sands are the only ones I'd include.
For a non-recursion (many sac outlets + hoarding dragon + reito lantern) build you're pretty light on dragons, I'd probably throw in a few more, or add the sac/recursion pieces. If you do one of those things, you'll probably have more luck with illusionist's bracers/rings/elixir and put those back in. If you're running out of dragons, that's a sign you need to get a better late-game plan for the deck, not remove your burst.
You can take a look at my primer (in sig) if you wanted any other help, although as I said the decklist looks pretty solid.
So I think Panharmonicon has a lot of potential with Flameshadow Conjuring, I am just worried it doesn't fit the deck if I was denied my commander. With this in mind, I would like to run more ETB effects to include it currently. However, I will consider it after I play test the deck. One of the more reasonable combos with Panharmonicon, results in 842 damage that can be spread across multiple people.
Zirilan tutors for Utvara Hellkite, with Panharmonicon and Flameshadow Conjuring on the battlefield at the end step of the opponent before you.
Make two copies with Flameshadow Conjuring of Utvara Hellkite because Panharmonicon shows two ETB triggers.
Start your turn
Attack with three Utvara Hellkite, put their triggers on the stack where each of them sees three dragons attacking.
Zirilan tutors Scourge of Valkas
Deal 8 damage on Scourge of Valkas ETB trigger
Make two copies with Flameshadow Conjuring of Scourge of Valkas because Panharmonicon shows two ETB triggers.
Deal 24 damage with two new Scourge of Valkas (6 dragons, twice for each one)
Let 9 Dragon tokens enter the battlefield
18 triggers are seen by three Scourge of Valkas resulting in 54 triggers
Deal 810 damage (54 triggers x 15 dragons)
Total Damage: 842
This can be done as early as turn 5.
Turn 1: Mountain, Sol Ring, Grim Monolith
Turn 2: Land, Gilded Lotus, Zirilan of the Claw
Turn 3: Land, Panharmonicon, Flameshadow Conjuring
Your turn 4: Do Nothing
End Step of Person before you: Start the Combo
Turn 5: Win
Requires pretty specific cards to do, but you know kind of cool to think about.
Overall the list looks pretty good, the biggest weaknesses I see are in low-end creatures. aether membrane, wall of stone, and goblin settler all see very subpar.
So I agree with you in terms of Goblin Settler, but I like the defensive-ness of the other two cards (Aether Membrane, Wall of Stone). I plan on at least trying them out before I give them the cut.
I'd recommend bogardan hellkite over spawn of thraxes. It'll usually deal more damage (you only have 20 mountains - you'd need to play 1/4 of them to deal 5!) and being able to distribute it is great, plus i'd rather pay 1 more to give it flash if it were in my hand. scourge of the throne is also an auto-include in zirilan imo.
So I cut those two dragons because Dethrone mechanics are unreliable, and Bogardan Hellkite isn't a card I believe I would cast from hand given the option (though tutoring for it would be reasonable). I can see your point in regards to Spawn of Thraxes, but I think I am just going to include Bogardan Hellkite (to replace Goblin Settler) and remove some utility lands to push for more Mountain Synergy.
I am dubious of dragonstorm being reasonable to get a high storm count on, and for it to be worth it (if you get board wiped I doubt you got much value), but by all means give it a shot.
I'm not really worried about Storm, it is possible of course, but paying 9 mana to tutor a Utvara Hellkite from deck to play makes it feel like a 9 mana version of Utvara Hellkite, which is pretty awesome.
My experience with cold storage and other expensive "perm" tools is that they're not worth it. closet, coffin, and endless sands are the only ones I'd include.
I believe Cold Storage is the only other expensive "perm" I run (Sundial of the Infinite is pretty cheap to use with the only downside is it is sorcery speed). I am currently running Cold Storage, because it curves well with Zirilan of the Claw. Turn 4: Cold Storage, Turn 5: Zirilan, Turn 6: Dragon and Storage use.
For a non-recursion (many sac outlets + hoarding dragon + reito lantern) build you're pretty light on dragons, I'd probably throw in a few more, or add the sac/recursion pieces. If you do one of those things, you'll probably have more luck with illusionist's bracers/rings/elixir and put those back in. If you're running out of dragons, that's a sign you need to get a better late-game plan for the deck, not remove your burst.
I am not super fond of sac based builds, and if this build works without interacting with the graveyard it will make it more reliable against graveyard hate. However, I will be adding another dragon in and after play testing will consider adding/cutting cards as needed.
So I cut those two dragons because Dethrone mechanics are unreliable, and Bogardan Hellkite isn't a card I believe I would cast from hand given the option (though tutoring for it would be reasonable). I can see your point in regards to Spawn of Thraxes, but I think I am just going to include Bogardan Hellkite (to replace Goblin Settler) and remove some utility lands to push for more Mountain Synergy.
I'm not really worried about Storm, it is possible of course, but paying 9 mana to tutor a Utvara Hellkite from deck to play makes it feel like a 9 mana version of Utvara Hellkite, which is pretty awesome.
I am not super fond of sac based builds, and if this build works without interacting with the graveyard it will make it more reliable against graveyard hate. However, I will be adding another dragon in and after play testing will consider adding/cutting cards as needed.
I didn't see that there was a Primer for Zirilan of the Claw. I looked but evidently I missed it.
I mean I wouldn't cast any dragons from hand unless I had to, and bogardan is a little overpriced, but I'd take the reliability of his 5 over spawn pretty easily, unless I was going 30+ mountains, and probably not even then. And flash is really useful too.
Personally I don't see why you'd want to pay 9 for utvara when you could pay 3. Sure, he's "permed", but you have other ways to perm him, and anyway if he lives until combat and you don't get boardwiped before your next turn, it's pretty hard to lose. Same goes for sarkhan's triumph - these are just worse versions of what you get built in to your commander. If Zirilan gets completely shut down (i.e. by pithing needle, or just priced off the field) the deck is fairly screwed anyway, you're not going to beat anyone competent with one dragon.
My primer isn't official. I considered applying but...meh. I'm more interested in talking about magic than bureaucracy, and some of their requirements are kind of stupid.
I mean I wouldn't cast any dragons from hand unless I had to, and bogardan is a little overpriced, but I'd take the reliability of his 5 over spawn pretty easily, unless I was going 30+ mountains, and probably not even then. And flash is really useful too.
So if I was aiming for killing people as quickly as possible (which is a great game plan in 3 player), I would agree whole heartedly. However, I would rather try to make this deck have better long term play to deal with games with more than 3 players.
Personally I don't see why you'd want to pay 9 for utvara when you could pay 3. Sure, he's "permed", but you have other ways to perm him, and anyway if he lives until combat and you don't get boardwiped before your next turn, it's pretty hard to lose. Same goes for sarkhan's triumph - these are just worse versions of what you get built in to your commander. If Zirilan gets completely shut down (i.e. by pithing needle, or just priced off the field) the deck is fairly screwed anyway, you're not going to beat anyone competent with one dragon.
Which is why I am running redundancy with the commander. I fully expect that Zirilan is going to come with a pretty big target on his back, so I am putting the redundancy in so I don't have to resign myself to losing in the event Zirilan becomes unplayable. I will keep this in mind while play testing though.
So if I was aiming for killing people as quickly as possible (which is a great game plan in 3 player), I would agree whole heartedly. However, I would rather try to make this deck have better long term play to deal with games with more than 3 players.
Which is why I am running redundancy with the commander. I fully expect that Zirilan is going to come with a pretty big target on his back, so I am putting the redundancy in so I don't have to resign myself to losing in the event Zirilan becomes unplayable. I will keep this in mind while play testing though.
I usually play 4 player games, although I guess some 3. Not sure how that factors much into it tbh. The ability to distribute the damage on hellkite is huge. It's just a much more powerful and flexible card than spawn. I don't follow why bogardan would be worse in 4 player compared to spawn - it's just a better card. I'd take distribute 5 over even as much as 7 damage to a single target, and having 7 mountains is quite unlikely unless the game goes crazy long - which your deck isn't particularly prepared for anyway, with few dragons and no recursion.
Surprising that you find Zirilan has a target on him. I find he gets ignored most of the time as an older, mono-colored (and mono-red specifically) commander, especially compared to all the atraxas and ur dragons. If he does get taken out of the game, I don't think hedging bets with otherwise-dead 9-mana cards is the way to go. I think you're just boned if that happens. If you're still able to beat people with a mono-red dragons deck with about a dozen threats in the whole deck, then you must be playing some pretty low-powered magic, because I'm pretty sure just about any precon deck can beat zirilan without zirilan. I don't think diluting the deck with alt-wincons is the way to go, just lean into the fragility of the deck and accept that sometimes targeted hate is going to make you lose.
I usually play 4 player games, although I guess some 3. Not sure how that factors much into it tbh. The ability to distribute the damage on hellkite is huge. It's just a much more powerful and flexible card than spawn. I don't follow why bogardan would be worse in 4 player compared to spawn - it's just a better card. I'd take distribute 5 over even as much as 7 damage to a single target, and having 7 mountains is quite unlikely unless the game goes crazy long - which your deck isn't particularly prepared for anyway, with few dragons and no recursion.
If you check the decklist, I am now running both. As for why I prefer one over the other, more players means longer games. Which results in more land drops, which results in more mountains. It's got a nice reach for when people are just outside of range.
Surprising that you find Zirilan has a target on him. I find he gets ignored most of the time as an older, mono-colored (and mono-red specifically) commander, especially compared to all the atraxas and ur dragons. If he does get taken out of the game, I don't think hedging bets with otherwise-dead 9-mana cards is the way to go. I think you're just boned if that happens. If you're still able to beat people with a mono-red dragons deck with about a dozen threats in the whole deck, then you must be playing some pretty low-powered magic, because I'm pretty sure just about any precon deck can beat zirilan without zirilan. I don't think diluting the deck with alt-wincons is the way to go, just lean into the fragility of the deck and accept that sometimes targeted hate is going to make you lose.
There was a person before me who ran Zirilan. So Zirilan isn't a sleeper commander. There is also a general hate towards tool boxing and love for killing commanders as a general rule. So I wouldn't say that these are Magic power level inclusions. I also would rather be a deck that can play at all stages rather than getting murdered from light removal. These cards are still largely untested. I appreciate your experience, which is why I added Bogardan Hellkite.
Note: I added a card tag in the quote so people can easily refer to the card you are talking about.
Hmm I have a bunch of mana doubling and damage doubling in my set up so I can just have that one big turn where I kill everyone without having to keep Zirilan alive for multiple turns. And with all that mana I can just cast the dragons.
I don't really think the defensive creatures are really that useful, I understand that you can get run over in the early game but it is 2 cards in 100 you aren't going to have it early anyway. Instead I just mull to 4 every game to find a hand with mana rocks so I can get started quickly.
I also really don't like the wheel effects because giving my opponents cards is way worse than me having cards in hand because my cards are uncastable dragons and thiers are removal spells for my dragons. I cut all the wheels. I just try to find lands and recast zirilan over and over.
I was going to post a question on the primer Thaumatic compass??? like it seems like a better journeyer's kite which I play but a) I might want to tutor beyond 7 and b) I really really don't want to give my opponents a Spires of Orazca to Vesuva/stage copy.
Thundermaw Hellkite was in this deck at one point, but it was removed because all it does is clear the skies for one turn. Which can be important, but I don't think my meta uses a large amount of fliers. It might be added in later.
Lightning Shrieker is still a card I am mulling over on. The issue is it's only good if you don't want to target anything else, it's a filler dragon for when you want to use Zirilan's activation. I think all of Zirilan's activations should come with strong effects.
Hmm I have a bunch of mana doubling and damage doubling in my set up so I can just have that one big turn where I kill everyone without having to keep Zirilan alive for multiple turns. And with all that mana I can just cast the dragons.
I also really don't like the wheel effects because giving my opponents cards is way worse than me having cards in hand because my cards are uncastable dragons and thiers are removal spells for my dragons. I cut all the wheels. I just try to find lands and recast zirilan over and over.
These are related, I run more cheap, mana rocks. Which means I am emptying my hand more quickly than others, and being red any form of card advantage is welcomed even if it cycles people's hands. Wheels also act as hand disruption and currently we have players running Constant Mists, so having a response to that is desirable.
Instant speed removal is usually better than sorcery speed removal. It's just nice that Spine can be abused with some cute tactics. Otherwise, in terms of a 1 off spell. Scour from Existence seems better as the artifact recovery isn't a theme I want to centralize on, just use as recovery for some important pieces. I will keep an eye on this though.
I don't really think the defensive creatures are really that useful, I understand that you can get run over in the early game but it is 2 cards in 100 you aren't going to have it early anyway. Instead I just mull to 4 every game to find a hand with mana rocks so I can get started quickly.
I will keep an eye on these. If I find they are lacking they will be pulled.
I was going to post a question on the primer Thaumatic compass??? like it seems like a better journeyer's kite which I play but a) I might want to tutor beyond 7 and b) I really really don't want to give my opponents a Spires of Orazca to Vesuva/stage copy.
I'm not sure how I feel about it either, it was a consideration when I was making the list but I decided it was a 'greedy' card, and didn't add enough to defense/offense. It is also something I am going to keep an eye on. Also, you should be aware that the land it flips into isn't legendary. So copying is a real fear.
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Changes: Dropping defensive weenies, adding more tempo and Thundermaw Hellkite (someone made a Ramos, Dragon Engine, so I want to be able to reliably connect and steal it).
1x Zirilan of the Claw
Creature (21)
1x Dragonmaster Outcast
1x Goblin Welder
1x Burnished Hart
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Changeling Berserker
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Hoarding Dragon
1x Scourge of Valkas
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Dragon Mage
1x Knollspine Dragon
1x Skyline Despot
1x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Spawn of Thraxes
1x Thunder Dragon
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Utvara Hellkite
1x Dragon Tyrant
Artifact (24)
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Expedition Map
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Synod Sanctum
1x Tel-Jilad Stylus
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mind Stone
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sundial of the Infinite
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Staff of Domination
1x Unstable Obelisk
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Gauntlet of Might
1x Tawnos's Coffin
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Conjurer's Closet
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Dragon Tempest
1x Flameshadow Conjuring
1x Sneak Attack
Instant (7)
1x Skred
1x Abrade
1x Starstorm
1x Chaos Warp
1x Sarkhan's Triumph
1x Divergent Transformations
1x Scour from Existence
Sorcery (5)
1x Shattering Spree
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Fiery Confluence
1x All is Dust
1x Dragonstorm
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Land (38)
1x Buried Ruin
1x Dust Bowl
1x Endless Sands
1x Flamekin Village
1x Hanweir Battlements
1x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Strip Mine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
25x Snow-Covered Mountain
Cold Storage -> Synod Sanctum: Cold Storage was actually fine, Synod Sanctum just seems like it is better the turn it comes out. Cold Storage is just better if there are two dragons I want to make permanent but it is super greedy and needs to be played ahead of time.
Wall of Stone -> Thundermaw Hellkite: There was a sudden influx of flying commanders, which has made this more valuable.
Aether Membrane -> Worldgorger Dragon: I know I am going to get a lot of flak for this, but Worldgorger can be good as a hail mary, counter wrath. I understand if this gets spot removed with it's ability on the stack, you are just going to lose. It's being included to get around wraths, combat tricks, etc.
Ancient Tomb -> Snow-Covered Mountain
Kher Keep -> Snow-Covered Mountain
Temple of the False God -> Snow-Covered Mountain
High Market -> Snow-Covered Mountain
Miren, the Moaning Well -> Snow-Covered Mountain
I ended up wanting more red mana symbols and mountain synergy, so I am cutting some utility lands. Ancient Tomb/Temple of the False God are more aggressive cuts, but I always wanted a Mountain whenever I got these. High Market/Miren are being cut, because I run no recursion. Kher Keep was just a value add, so it is also being cut.
Rings of Brighthearth
Illusionist's Bracers
Magewright's Stone
Thousand-Year Elixir
The above cards, all make the deck a lot more aggressive, however you can only find so many dragons before you run out of steam. Which means tricks when you spit out two dragons are a lot more condemning. This deck is more oriented for using Zirilan as a tool box when needed, otherwise. Just playing dragons is fine. If you expect to be in three player games often, I would say include these cards, however I find myself in 3-5 player games often so I design for 5 player games that transition to 3 player easily.
Panharmonicon
Any feedback is welcome!
Current EDH
Akroma W | Tymna and Bruse RBW
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I'd recommend bogardan hellkite over spawn of thraxes. It'll usually deal more damage (you only have 20 mountains - you'd need to play 1/4 of them to deal 5!) and being able to distribute it is great, plus i'd rather pay 1 more to give it flash if it were in my hand. scourge of the throne is also an auto-include in zirilan imo.
I am dubious of dragonstorm being reasonable to get a high storm count on, and for it to be worth it (if you get board wiped I doubt you got much value), but by all means give it a shot.
My experience with cold storage and other expensive "perm" tools is that they're not worth it. closet, coffin, and endless sands are the only ones I'd include.
For a non-recursion (many sac outlets + hoarding dragon + reito lantern) build you're pretty light on dragons, I'd probably throw in a few more, or add the sac/recursion pieces. If you do one of those things, you'll probably have more luck with illusionist's bracers/rings/elixir and put those back in. If you're running out of dragons, that's a sign you need to get a better late-game plan for the deck, not remove your burst.
You can take a look at my primer (in sig) if you wanted any other help, although as I said the decklist looks pretty solid.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
So I think Panharmonicon has a lot of potential with Flameshadow Conjuring, I am just worried it doesn't fit the deck if I was denied my commander. With this in mind, I would like to run more ETB effects to include it currently. However, I will consider it after I play test the deck. One of the more reasonable combos with Panharmonicon, results in 842 damage that can be spread across multiple people.
Cards:
Scourge of Valkas, Utvara Hellkite, Panharmonicon, Zirilan of the Claw, and Flameshadow Conjuring
Board State:
Panharmonicon, Zirilan of the Claw, and Flameshadow Conjuring
Mana Requirements:
4 Red Mana, 1 colorless.
Steps:
Total Damage:
842
This can be done as early as turn 5.
Turn 1: Mountain, Sol Ring, Grim Monolith
Turn 2: Land, Gilded Lotus, Zirilan of the Claw
Turn 3: Land, Panharmonicon, Flameshadow Conjuring
Your turn 4: Do Nothing
End Step of Person before you: Start the Combo
Turn 5: Win
Requires pretty specific cards to do, but you know kind of cool to think about.
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So I agree with you in terms of Goblin Settler, but I like the defensive-ness of the other two cards (Aether Membrane, Wall of Stone). I plan on at least trying them out before I give them the cut.
So I cut those two dragons because Dethrone mechanics are unreliable, and Bogardan Hellkite isn't a card I believe I would cast from hand given the option (though tutoring for it would be reasonable). I can see your point in regards to Spawn of Thraxes, but I think I am just going to include Bogardan Hellkite (to replace Goblin Settler) and remove some utility lands to push for more Mountain Synergy.
I'm not really worried about Storm, it is possible of course, but paying 9 mana to tutor a Utvara Hellkite from deck to play makes it feel like a 9 mana version of Utvara Hellkite, which is pretty awesome.
I believe Cold Storage is the only other expensive "perm" I run (Sundial of the Infinite is pretty cheap to use with the only downside is it is sorcery speed). I am currently running Cold Storage, because it curves well with Zirilan of the Claw. Turn 4: Cold Storage, Turn 5: Zirilan, Turn 6: Dragon and Storage use.
I am not super fond of sac based builds, and if this build works without interacting with the graveyard it will make it more reliable against graveyard hate. However, I will be adding another dragon in and after play testing will consider adding/cutting cards as needed.
I didn't see that there was a Primer for Zirilan of the Claw. I looked but evidently I missed it.
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Thanks for the awesome feedback guys! I will do some updating to reflect your comments.
Current EDH
Akroma W | Tymna and Bruse RBW
Personally I don't see why you'd want to pay 9 for utvara when you could pay 3. Sure, he's "permed", but you have other ways to perm him, and anyway if he lives until combat and you don't get boardwiped before your next turn, it's pretty hard to lose. Same goes for sarkhan's triumph - these are just worse versions of what you get built in to your commander. If Zirilan gets completely shut down (i.e. by pithing needle, or just priced off the field) the deck is fairly screwed anyway, you're not going to beat anyone competent with one dragon.
My primer isn't official. I considered applying but...meh. I'm more interested in talking about magic than bureaucracy, and some of their requirements are kind of stupid.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
So if I was aiming for killing people as quickly as possible (which is a great game plan in 3 player), I would agree whole heartedly. However, I would rather try to make this deck have better long term play to deal with games with more than 3 players.
Which is why I am running redundancy with the commander. I fully expect that Zirilan is going to come with a pretty big target on his back, so I am putting the redundancy in so I don't have to resign myself to losing in the event Zirilan becomes unplayable. I will keep this in mind while play testing though.
Current EDH
Akroma W | Tymna and Bruse RBW
Surprising that you find Zirilan has a target on him. I find he gets ignored most of the time as an older, mono-colored (and mono-red specifically) commander, especially compared to all the atraxas and ur dragons. If he does get taken out of the game, I don't think hedging bets with otherwise-dead 9-mana cards is the way to go. I think you're just boned if that happens. If you're still able to beat people with a mono-red dragons deck with about a dozen threats in the whole deck, then you must be playing some pretty low-powered magic, because I'm pretty sure just about any precon deck can beat zirilan without zirilan. I don't think diluting the deck with alt-wincons is the way to go, just lean into the fragility of the deck and accept that sometimes targeted hate is going to make you lose.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
If you check the decklist, I am now running both. As for why I prefer one over the other, more players means longer games. Which results in more land drops, which results in more mountains. It's got a nice reach for when people are just outside of range.
There was a person before me who ran Zirilan. So Zirilan isn't a sleeper commander. There is also a general hate towards tool boxing and love for killing commanders as a general rule. So I wouldn't say that these are Magic power level inclusions. I also would rather be a deck that can play at all stages rather than getting murdered from light removal. These cards are still largely untested. I appreciate your experience, which is why I added Bogardan Hellkite.
Note: I added a card tag in the quote so people can easily refer to the card you are talking about.
Current EDH
Akroma W | Tymna and Bruse RBW
Well Zirilan doesn't stay under the radar for long anyway.
Hmm I have a bunch of mana doubling and damage doubling in my set up so I can just have that one big turn where I kill everyone without having to keep Zirilan alive for multiple turns. And with all that mana I can just cast the dragons.
I assume you spiecifically want exile because with a goblin welder Spine of Ish Sah has to be better than scour from existence.
I don't really think the defensive creatures are really that useful, I understand that you can get run over in the early game but it is 2 cards in 100 you aren't going to have it early anyway. Instead I just mull to 4 every game to find a hand with mana rocks so I can get started quickly.
I also really don't like the wheel effects because giving my opponents cards is way worse than me having cards in hand because my cards are uncastable dragons and thiers are removal spells for my dragons. I cut all the wheels. I just try to find lands and recast zirilan over and over.
I was going to post a question on the primer Thaumatic compass??? like it seems like a better journeyer's kite which I play but a) I might want to tutor beyond 7 and b) I really really don't want to give my opponents a Spires of Orazca to Vesuva/stage copy.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Thundermaw Hellkite was in this deck at one point, but it was removed because all it does is clear the skies for one turn. Which can be important, but I don't think my meta uses a large amount of fliers. It might be added in later.
Lightning Shrieker is still a card I am mulling over on. The issue is it's only good if you don't want to target anything else, it's a filler dragon for when you want to use Zirilan's activation. I think all of Zirilan's activations should come with strong effects.
These are related, I run more cheap, mana rocks. Which means I am emptying my hand more quickly than others, and being red any form of card advantage is welcomed even if it cycles people's hands. Wheels also act as hand disruption and currently we have players running Constant Mists, so having a response to that is desirable.
Instant speed removal is usually better than sorcery speed removal. It's just nice that Spine can be abused with some cute tactics. Otherwise, in terms of a 1 off spell. Scour from Existence seems better as the artifact recovery isn't a theme I want to centralize on, just use as recovery for some important pieces. I will keep an eye on this though.
I will keep an eye on these. If I find they are lacking they will be pulled.
I'm not sure how I feel about it either, it was a consideration when I was making the list but I decided it was a 'greedy' card, and didn't add enough to defense/offense. It is also something I am going to keep an eye on. Also, you should be aware that the land it flips into isn't legendary. So copying is a real fear.
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Changes: Dropping defensive weenies, adding more tempo and Thundermaw Hellkite (someone made a Ramos, Dragon Engine, so I want to be able to reliably connect and steal it).
Current EDH
Akroma W | Tymna and Bruse RBW