What does everyone think of Athrwos, god of passage as a recursion option for the deck? Ive been thinking it over in the last few days and it does force a tough choice for opponents, considering our curve allows easy recast.
What does everyone think of Athrwos, god of passage as a recursion option for the deck? Ive been thinking it over in the last few days and it does force a tough choice for opponents, considering our curve allows easy recast.
I believe ISBPathfinder originally had it in his build and then cut it. I don't recall the reason but it is buried somewhere in this thread.
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What does everyone think of Athrwos, god of passage as a recursion option for the deck? Ive been thinking it over in the last few days and it does force a tough choice for opponents, considering our curve allows easy recast.
I believe ISBPathfinder originally had it in his build and then cut it. I don't recall the reason but it is buried somewhere in this thread.
I did have it in my list originally. My issue was taking the time to get it set up when its really only something of a card advantage engine but its responsive in how it works. If you are constantly getting wrathed it can be decent but its still just going to function like draw at best and it is reactive to opponents in when you get that "draw". If you are swimming in draw they will let you have it and it wont do much. My issue is that it was really responsive to what opponents are doing but it also was kind of expensive at a three mana card that might do actually nothing for several turns. It is nice in that you can pick on one player with it but if you get it early its going to be kind of junk in that they still have HP and you probably need actual draw still at that point of the game.
It gives a lot of options to opponents and while there are times it can be good. I also found several times where it was not so good. I just found it a little lacking given its a 3 mana card that might not have much of anything happen anytime soon after you play it. Its the kind of card you want to draw in the mid to late game when you have a bunch of things in play, opponents are getting low, and you don't have draw. I think that is kind of a niche area for when its good.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I too ran Athreos, God of Passage in my build but like ISB I had issues where several turns it would sit and do nothing. This is a huge tempo deck, we need to make each turn count; every bit of mana squeezed into killing threats (opponents) as quickly and efficiently as possible.
And lastly, lately I've noticed that as long as we have draw going we can recover very quickly from a wrath effect. Many people in my playgroup comment on how resilient the deck seems to be; as long as there is draw to keep the pedal to the metal.
My build has a less flattened curve and Athreos does fine; it's mostly to pick on the player with the lowest life and just keep churning out more Vampires. You stop attacking them and they become complicit in the table's doom.
I do think I'm probably playing Vampires in a less competitive pod than he is though.
What does everyone think of Athrwos, god of passage as a recursion option for the deck? Ive been thinking it over in the last few days and it does force a tough choice for opponents, considering our curve allows easy recast.
I believe ISBPathfinder originally had it in his build and then cut it. I don't recall the reason but it is buried somewhere in this thread.
I did have it in my list originally. My issue was taking the time to get it set up when its really only something of a card advantage engine but its responsive in how it works. If you are constantly getting wrathed it can be decent but its still just going to function like draw at best and it is reactive to opponents in when you get that "draw". If you are swimming in draw they will let you have it and it wont do much. My issue is that it was really responsive to what opponents are doing but it also was kind of expensive at a three mana card that might do actually nothing for several turns. It is nice in that you can pick on one player with it but if you get it early its going to be kind of junk in that they still have HP and you probably need actual draw still at that point of the game.
It gives a lot of options to opponents and while there are times it can be good. I also found several times where it was not so good. I just found it a little lacking given its a 3 mana card that might not have much of anything happen anytime soon after you play it. Its the kind of card you want to draw in the mid to late game when you have a bunch of things in play, opponents are getting low, and you don't have draw. I think that is kind of a niche area for when its good.
Ah yes, fair enough. There's so many pages to roll through now. Fair enough, and this was my concern with it too - it's very conditional, and puts too much choice in the hands of our opponents. The problem is all of our recursion options are a little too specific, unreliable, or mana hungry. Oversold Cemetery is my favourite to date, but even then its conditional. Ravos, Soultender is what we're after, but he's too expensive to cast. Oh well.
It's been awhile since I've posted an update, been rather busy. But I have played quite a few games lately. One card is sticking out at the moment....Legion's Landing. Never seems like I get to do much with it or at all. Have you ran across this at all ISB?
For me it was like 0 cost additional land in one turn, because you pay W and then it returns after combat phase so you can cast some W flyer or save it for PtE or StP. Next turn you will have additional land so i don't think that is so bad. If you havant got cards in hand you can use its ability)
Hello, everyone. I play Edgar Markov in EDH as well and I was curious if y'all could look at my list and tell me what you think of it? What it could use in terms of changes, etc.
I've recently cut it from the list I run for this deck. I finally acquired a Yawgmoth's Will via a trade yesterday and I'm interested to see if it is a viable recovery option.
Has anyone tried it out? Experiences with running it in Edgar?
I've recently cut it from the list I run for this deck. I finally acquired a Yawgmoth's Will via a trade yesterday and I'm interested to see if it is a viable recovery option.
Has anyone tried it out? Experiences with running it in Edgar?
thanks,
theCreecH
There's no way I can afford it, but I can see it being a strong recovery option. The only downside I'd see is being a one off effect, so timing would be key. But I guess that'd be the reason to run incremental recursion like Sword of Light and Shadow or Volrath's Stronghold, for redundancy against sweeps.
Sorry things have been a bit slow here. I have only gotten to play a single night of commander since Christmas time when my LGS closed down. Life has been busy and the next closest LGS is 60 miles off and only holds commander at their FNM which is..... honestly not what I want to do after work Friday night.
Seems that everybody who's building a tribal deck has forgotten about the ability changeling. Crib Swap for example is removal for Edgar Markov that even brings you a token. In my version of the deck my opponents arent nearly as agressive as i am. In 4 player free for all. Seems more of an issue to deal with boardwhipe's.
That's why i prefer playing blood artist, Falkenrath noble, Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Falkenrath Aristocrat and Adanto Vanguard
Crib Swap costs too much and is too poor of a removal effect. The fact that the opponent gets a chump blocker that will trade with our own tokens (assuming we lack buffs at the time) it really gives a very poor tempo removal. It just costs too much, is too narrow, and its overall upsides are way too low being mostly just that we get a 1/1 out of it. There is no way I would be willing to run it over Swords to Plowshares and..... I don't run Swords to Plowshares. The bottom line is that it really is too narrow being creature only spot removal and costing three mana costing too much. Giving our opponents a chump blocker that will trade or stall further is yet again more downside to me.
I am always playing the game as the aggressor with this deck. I don't run the list super low and fast because my opponents are overly fast but because the card advantage and draw effects that I chose encourage bulk drawing and trying to play 2-5 cards a turn. Edgar gives a lot of extra value if you can push more cards / turn as that turns into bigger and faster swarms coming back. I keep my curve low and watch what I include even though I totally agree some of those cards are decent / solid I avoid them because I am trying to move more cards and as you slow down the curve you cast less things / turn too.
I've recently cut it from the list I run for this deck. I finally acquired a Yawgmoth's Will via a trade yesterday and I'm interested to see if it is a viable recovery option.
Has anyone tried it out? Experiences with running it in Edgar?
thanks,
theCreecH
Legion's landing has been all value for me. I don't honestly know what people have had against it. Its worst case scenario is generally speaking drawing it late and it being equivalent to a land draw that "can in a pinch be a mana dump". I have never seen the card not flip for me and I have had several early games go absolutely dumb off of it. I am not sure what issues anyone has had with it and I see no reason to think of it as anything but another mox really. If you are cutting this then..... you are cutting moxes????
Yawgmoth's - I haven't played it. I still don't like it from the standpoint that if you draw it early its dead until you get wrathed. On the other hand if instead of finding yawg you found draw you can jam that fine. What if you run into grave hate? Also its really going to be probably 6+ mana before this is really even.... like ok value in a deck that really is not designed to be a big mana deck. I still think that of the recovery options its probably one of the better options but I am also not sold that this is necessary.
There's no way I can afford it, but I can see it being a strong recovery option. The only downside I'd see is being a one off effect, so timing would be key. But I guess that'd be the reason to run incremental recursion like Sword of Light and Shadow or Volrath's Stronghold, for redundancy against sweeps.
Those are even slower and worse for this build. Its possible that those could work on a few really key vamps but ultimately they feel slow and very dependent on a handful of very specific vamps to have already died. If you wanted to play with some more budget option I would honestly probably suggest Dusk // Dawn or maybe Living Death. I am still not fond of these effects for this deck though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yeah so back to my Yawgmoth's Will observations and how it interacts with Edgar:
You need about 6 mana to make it worthwhile as a recovery option on average. However, in my hyper-competitive meta whenever I look at my graveyard I usually see the same things: A bunch of my Vamps who got board wiped and things like Skullclamp or Grave Pact or sac outlets. So to get the deck going again and fully recover, YawWill is a mana sink in a deck where we don't usually generate a lot of mana (especially when Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx requires you to have devotion...which you won't have if your board has been wiped).
Kinda frustrating. I got to thinking last night it might be time to consider Teferi's Protection or things like Scapegoat that ISB has been trying and other people have suggested.
I suggested Scapegoat a while back; it got rejected and after trying it out myself I could see why it wasn't the best. I go over the list again, and there it is. How is Scapegoat treating you? Still good or nah? I do think because my curve is less flat than yours, that is a reason why I found it fairly lacklustre.
I suggested Scapegoat a while back; it got rejected and after trying it out myself I could see why it wasn't the best. I go over the list again, and there it is. How is Scapegoat treating you? Still good or nah? I do think because my curve is less flat than yours, that is a reason why I found it fairly lacklustre.
I did manage to get it in the single game I have gotten to play in the last 4 months. I did kind of screw it up though in that the turn I should have kept it up I wen't greedy into a bigger Malakir Bloodwitch which was immediately wrathed. So.... I have not yet cast it myself but my own ability to test of late has been non existent. It probably could have been good for me but again..... I got greedy lol.
Losing my LGS has not been productive towards me getting to play any magic. I keep hoping I figure out something new to let me play commander again.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
As for Scapegoat, every time I had it in my hand it did nothing. We have quite a lot of ways to bounce back after mass removal so waiting for it to happen is worse than casting one more offensive vampire dork. With Edgar it's fast combo decks we should fear the most. We may be able to kill one before it goes off but if there are more we are in trouble. I would exchange Scapegoat for another piece of removal which could also help against midrange and another aggro decks.
It does seem a fairly conditional card. It's good if you:
1. Have a full board.
2. Have a small hand.
3. Face down a board sweep.
4. Have spare W outside of your turn and a dork free.
5. Are comfortable with a reasonably empty board once it resolves.
That's a lot of conditions to make it valid. Otherwise, in terms of filling my hand, I'd almost always prefer some of the standard draw we run here like Necropotence (obvs), Minions' Murmurs or Ad Nauseam. It seems like half of the point of a tempo build is accepting that it doesn't matter if your creatures die so long as you have a full grip to replenish the board, so returning them to hand seems a little redundant.
As far as Scapegoat goes, it's been treating me well. I always get value off of it. I'm kinda inclined to say based on my meta, spot removal is needed for creatures. Mainly for the sole purpose of getting rid of something that totally blanks our board state to where we can't attack.
First time poster.. I was thinking about trying to fit in Ankle Shanker(wrong tribe, I know) into this deck. Seems like another high impact 5 mana drop. It all but guarantees your opponent won't block any incoming damage and around turn 5 I'm attempting to hit for ~20 health consistently. The deck is extremely strong in small groups and beautifully constructed I might add. 1-2 opponents and it always performs well for me. If there's more than that I become a big early target. So I was wondering if anyone has had any success in tweaking this deck for bigger groups? Anyone try Ankle Shanker in this deck before?
First time poster.. I was thinking about trying to fit in Ankle Shanker(wrong tribe, I know) into this deck. Seems like another high impact 5 mana drop. It all but guarantees your opponent won't block any incoming damage and around turn 5 I'm attempting to hit for ~20 health consistently. The deck is extremely strong in small groups and beautifully constructed I might add. 1-2 opponents and it always performs well for me. If there's more than that I become a big early target. So I was wondering if anyone has had any success in tweaking this deck for bigger groups? Anyone try Ankle Shanker in this deck before?
The thing is we already can get first strike from Stromkirk Captain so I'm not sure Ankle Shanker is really worth the deck slot, mana cost or being out-of-tribe. Not to mention also being a blanket effect for 3cmc vs. an attack trigger for 5cmc.
As far as "big groups" go I've got a personal no more than 5+ per table policy, but I prefer 4 players per table. Four seems to be a very good fit for multiplayer Commander.
First time poster.. I was thinking about trying to fit in Ankle Shanker(wrong tribe, I know) into this deck. Seems like another high impact 5 mana drop. It all but guarantees your opponent won't block any incoming damage and around turn 5 I'm attempting to hit for ~20 health consistently. The deck is extremely strong in small groups and beautifully constructed I might add. 1-2 opponents and it always performs well for me. If there's more than that I become a big early target. So I was wondering if anyone has had any success in tweaking this deck for bigger groups? Anyone try Ankle Shanker in this deck before?
Personally I would go to Eldrazi Monument before Ankle Shanker because its the same mana and I think its better protection with a buff and flying + indestructible is better in my mind than first strike + deathtouch in that you cant be chump blocked as easily.
This list really does have a lot to think about though its so important to mulligan correctly and tutor correctly. Rather than trying to find more ways to close out the game I focus more on finding draw. I think it is very important to take into account that anytime you are playing a fast deck your opponents should ideally be looking for ways to shut you down in their openers. Its possible if they don't know how fast you are or miss assess your threat that they might not but always assume that opponents are using mulligans to live when you are playing such an aggressive deck like this. Its why I focus so much more on pushing draw because I assume I am going to eat some sweepers.
It is also important to take into consideration how many things we can do in a turn. This deck has a very low curve so if you land some sweet unfair draw its fairly normal for me to be able to cast 3-5 cards in a turn if I have the gas to keep it up. With such a low curve its far more important to keep the draw going than it is to land some big haymaker wincon. It might be tempting to add more big splashy ways to win into the deck but I can guarantee you the better direction is to keep your draw moving and assume you will get wrathed because if you don't have that draw and you get wrathed you wont get back up very well. One of the last games I got to play with my own list I got wrathed like 6 times in the first 10 turns and almost every wrath was due to me. I still had draw and action going on and while I did not win that game.... I pressured everyone else in a 5 player game to play defensively and focus only on not dying to me. I did still kill two players and almost kill a third before I died in that game. (last two people were both around 10hp)
I guess what I am saying is that its important to keep the cost down. What does adding another 5 drop that is dependent on having a good board to be good really do for the deck? When it comes to 4+ drop cards I think there is a very big question of.... would I ever tutor for this card? If the answer is no I think there is a good reason to second guess it.
Welcome to salvation and to playing vamps. I think this deck is really cool and I think it is a list that takes a lot of thought. I really would not advise it for any 5+ player games and I think at 4 people its a fair deck that takes a lot of thought to pilot well. Its a very fun list and I welcome any discussion or questions you may have.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Hey Pathfinder. Any updates with your list? Have you had a chance to play recently?
After a good 6 months with having no store I have a store again. One of the problems though is that the new store has a lot more casual players so often it feels like it would be overkill to play my vampires. I do plan to play it soon and I have brought it with me the last 3 weeks but most every week I feel bad to step up to playing vampires on the back of winning the previous game with a slower and weaker deck.
I guess I will say that its likely that I will cut Twilight Prophet soon as it has proven to be weaker than was hoping with its slow return on investment given the cost to play it. I managed to play my abzan partners deck once and I saw it have kind of a meh showing there and I feel it would probably be even worse in here. Also with such a low curve it seems like not a very good means to hit opponents for damage given the average will be something like 1.3 mana.
Glad you found a store. Maybe with your tutelage you can raise the level of play enough that you can play Edgar more often. My version of Edgar is about 90% the same as yours. I will try to play with him more often and report back what I find. I was getting a few games in each week but now when I pull Edgar out for a spin, he is greeted with a collective groan from my playgroup, so i usually end up putting him back and grabbing something slower. I guess I need to tell them to suck it up (no pun intended) and to prepare for a vampire swarm beatdown!
I agree with your assessment of Twilight Prophet. Return on investment not worth it.
Glad you found a store. Maybe with your tutelage you can raise the level of play enough that you can play Edgar more often. My version of Edgar is about 90% the same as yours. I will try to play with him more often and report back what I find. I was getting a few games in each week but now when I pull Edgar out for a spin, he is greeted with a collective groan from my playgroup, so i usually end up putting him back and grabbing something slower. I guess I need to tell them to suck it up (no pun intended) and to prepare for a vampire swarm beatdown!
I agree with your assessment of Twilight Prophet. Return on investment not worth it.
Yea, I am still trying to not get things to the point where people won't play with me and my normal decks are close to doing that for some people
Last week I played Squee, Athreos, Squee and went 3/0 so I try generally to not go overboard. Sometimes when someone focus fires me really hard it will peev me and make me want to play something more aggressive but in general most of them don't have enough decks worth stepping things up. I have had to more or less put my Kozilek deck away because nobody really seems to have anything that can play against it in my meta. Its really too bad as its one of my favorite decks but it just escalates so fast that I am afraid they don't really have much of a chance against it.
Maybe I will have to go in one week and just play gross decks and chain my vamps, kozilek, abzan all back to back. In general though I try to weave in some of my jank mono white and such between some of my better decks so I am not playing too tryhard.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I wanted to drop in and give a few comments and updates.
1) I have been sharing this bookmarked page on youtube and facebook when people bring up Edgar or how they think agro is worthless in commander. I feel this deck has proven otherwise and is a lot of fun.
2) I am still on a budget and play with card I can find. As I have said before, I play in Peru and don't have access to simply buying from the the fireball channel or the kingdom of cards is not really an option.
Even on a budget and as a less optimized build, I am very happy with what this deck can do. The pressure it applies and its ability to refill its hand is impressive.
I agree with the comments about the focus of the cards: lands, ramp, aggressive creatures, anthems, card draw, and some answers to problem permanents.
It is interesting to see how a card actually works in a drck compared to the imagination of how it might work, like scapegoat.
I still find myself ramping into and casting our Commander almost every time I get to the six mana. The built in anthem he gives and pressure he applies is back breaking... and I am puzzled when I see how often other don't cast him.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
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I believe ISBPathfinder originally had it in his build and then cut it. I don't recall the reason but it is buried somewhere in this thread.
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I did have it in my list originally. My issue was taking the time to get it set up when its really only something of a card advantage engine but its responsive in how it works. If you are constantly getting wrathed it can be decent but its still just going to function like draw at best and it is reactive to opponents in when you get that "draw". If you are swimming in draw they will let you have it and it wont do much. My issue is that it was really responsive to what opponents are doing but it also was kind of expensive at a three mana card that might do actually nothing for several turns. It is nice in that you can pick on one player with it but if you get it early its going to be kind of junk in that they still have HP and you probably need actual draw still at that point of the game.
It gives a lot of options to opponents and while there are times it can be good. I also found several times where it was not so good. I just found it a little lacking given its a 3 mana card that might not have much of anything happen anytime soon after you play it. Its the kind of card you want to draw in the mid to late game when you have a bunch of things in play, opponents are getting low, and you don't have draw. I think that is kind of a niche area for when its good.
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Also Edgar Markov got a bunch of new toys in Legion Lieutenant, Dusk Legion Zealot, Twilight Prophet and Champion of Dusk. Cuts had to be made.
And lastly, lately I've noticed that as long as we have draw going we can recover very quickly from a wrath effect. Many people in my playgroup comment on how resilient the deck seems to be; as long as there is draw to keep the pedal to the metal.
I do think I'm probably playing Vampires in a less competitive pod than he is though.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Ah yes, fair enough. There's so many pages to roll through now. Fair enough, and this was my concern with it too - it's very conditional, and puts too much choice in the hands of our opponents. The problem is all of our recursion options are a little too specific, unreliable, or mana hungry. Oversold Cemetery is my favourite to date, but even then its conditional. Ravos, Soultender is what we're after, but he's too expensive to cast. Oh well.
GVorinclex, Voice of HungerG
WUBMerieke Ri BeritWUB
UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' VoiceGWUB
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/what-is-a-man-smashes-wine-glass/
I'd appreciate the help. Thank you.
I've recently cut it from the list I run for this deck. I finally acquired a Yawgmoth's Will via a trade yesterday and I'm interested to see if it is a viable recovery option.
Has anyone tried it out? Experiences with running it in Edgar?
thanks,
theCreecH
There's no way I can afford it, but I can see it being a strong recovery option. The only downside I'd see is being a one off effect, so timing would be key. But I guess that'd be the reason to run incremental recursion like Sword of Light and Shadow or Volrath's Stronghold, for redundancy against sweeps.
Crib Swap costs too much and is too poor of a removal effect. The fact that the opponent gets a chump blocker that will trade with our own tokens (assuming we lack buffs at the time) it really gives a very poor tempo removal. It just costs too much, is too narrow, and its overall upsides are way too low being mostly just that we get a 1/1 out of it. There is no way I would be willing to run it over Swords to Plowshares and..... I don't run Swords to Plowshares. The bottom line is that it really is too narrow being creature only spot removal and costing three mana costing too much. Giving our opponents a chump blocker that will trade or stall further is yet again more downside to me.
I am always playing the game as the aggressor with this deck. I don't run the list super low and fast because my opponents are overly fast but because the card advantage and draw effects that I chose encourage bulk drawing and trying to play 2-5 cards a turn. Edgar gives a lot of extra value if you can push more cards / turn as that turns into bigger and faster swarms coming back. I keep my curve low and watch what I include even though I totally agree some of those cards are decent / solid I avoid them because I am trying to move more cards and as you slow down the curve you cast less things / turn too.
Legion's landing has been all value for me. I don't honestly know what people have had against it. Its worst case scenario is generally speaking drawing it late and it being equivalent to a land draw that "can in a pinch be a mana dump". I have never seen the card not flip for me and I have had several early games go absolutely dumb off of it. I am not sure what issues anyone has had with it and I see no reason to think of it as anything but another mox really. If you are cutting this then..... you are cutting moxes????
Yawgmoth's - I haven't played it. I still don't like it from the standpoint that if you draw it early its dead until you get wrathed. On the other hand if instead of finding yawg you found draw you can jam that fine. What if you run into grave hate? Also its really going to be probably 6+ mana before this is really even.... like ok value in a deck that really is not designed to be a big mana deck. I still think that of the recovery options its probably one of the better options but I am also not sold that this is necessary.
Those are even slower and worse for this build. Its possible that those could work on a few really key vamps but ultimately they feel slow and very dependent on a handful of very specific vamps to have already died. If you wanted to play with some more budget option I would honestly probably suggest Dusk // Dawn or maybe Living Death. I am still not fond of these effects for this deck though.
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You need about 6 mana to make it worthwhile as a recovery option on average. However, in my hyper-competitive meta whenever I look at my graveyard I usually see the same things: A bunch of my Vamps who got board wiped and things like Skullclamp or Grave Pact or sac outlets. So to get the deck going again and fully recover, YawWill is a mana sink in a deck where we don't usually generate a lot of mana (especially when Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx requires you to have devotion...which you won't have if your board has been wiped).
Kinda frustrating. I got to thinking last night it might be time to consider Teferi's Protection or things like Scapegoat that ISB has been trying and other people have suggested.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I did manage to get it in the single game I have gotten to play in the last 4 months. I did kind of screw it up though in that the turn I should have kept it up I wen't greedy into a bigger Malakir Bloodwitch which was immediately wrathed. So.... I have not yet cast it myself but my own ability to test of late has been non existent. It probably could have been good for me but again..... I got greedy lol.
Losing my LGS has not been productive towards me getting to play any magic. I keep hoping I figure out something new to let me play commander again.
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It does seem a fairly conditional card. It's good if you:
1. Have a full board.
2. Have a small hand.
3. Face down a board sweep.
4. Have spare W outside of your turn and a dork free.
5. Are comfortable with a reasonably empty board once it resolves.
That's a lot of conditions to make it valid. Otherwise, in terms of filling my hand, I'd almost always prefer some of the standard draw we run here like Necropotence (obvs), Minions' Murmurs or Ad Nauseam. It seems like half of the point of a tempo build is accepting that it doesn't matter if your creatures die so long as you have a full grip to replenish the board, so returning them to hand seems a little redundant.
GVorinclex, Voice of HungerG
WUBMerieke Ri BeritWUB
UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' VoiceGWUB
The thing is we already can get first strike from Stromkirk Captain so I'm not sure Ankle Shanker is really worth the deck slot, mana cost or being out-of-tribe. Not to mention also being a blanket effect for 3cmc vs. an attack trigger for 5cmc.
As far as "big groups" go I've got a personal no more than 5+ per table policy, but I prefer 4 players per table. Four seems to be a very good fit for multiplayer Commander.
Personally I would go to Eldrazi Monument before Ankle Shanker because its the same mana and I think its better protection with a buff and flying + indestructible is better in my mind than first strike + deathtouch in that you cant be chump blocked as easily.
This list really does have a lot to think about though its so important to mulligan correctly and tutor correctly. Rather than trying to find more ways to close out the game I focus more on finding draw. I think it is very important to take into account that anytime you are playing a fast deck your opponents should ideally be looking for ways to shut you down in their openers. Its possible if they don't know how fast you are or miss assess your threat that they might not but always assume that opponents are using mulligans to live when you are playing such an aggressive deck like this. Its why I focus so much more on pushing draw because I assume I am going to eat some sweepers.
It is also important to take into consideration how many things we can do in a turn. This deck has a very low curve so if you land some sweet unfair draw its fairly normal for me to be able to cast 3-5 cards in a turn if I have the gas to keep it up. With such a low curve its far more important to keep the draw going than it is to land some big haymaker wincon. It might be tempting to add more big splashy ways to win into the deck but I can guarantee you the better direction is to keep your draw moving and assume you will get wrathed because if you don't have that draw and you get wrathed you wont get back up very well. One of the last games I got to play with my own list I got wrathed like 6 times in the first 10 turns and almost every wrath was due to me. I still had draw and action going on and while I did not win that game.... I pressured everyone else in a 5 player game to play defensively and focus only on not dying to me. I did still kill two players and almost kill a third before I died in that game. (last two people were both around 10hp)
I guess what I am saying is that its important to keep the cost down. What does adding another 5 drop that is dependent on having a good board to be good really do for the deck? When it comes to 4+ drop cards I think there is a very big question of.... would I ever tutor for this card? If the answer is no I think there is a good reason to second guess it.
Welcome to salvation and to playing vamps. I think this deck is really cool and I think it is a list that takes a lot of thought. I really would not advise it for any 5+ player games and I think at 4 people its a fair deck that takes a lot of thought to pilot well. Its a very fun list and I welcome any discussion or questions you may have.
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[Modern] Allies
After a good 6 months with having no store I have a store again. One of the problems though is that the new store has a lot more casual players so often it feels like it would be overkill to play my vampires. I do plan to play it soon and I have brought it with me the last 3 weeks but most every week I feel bad to step up to playing vampires on the back of winning the previous game with a slower and weaker deck.
I guess I will say that its likely that I will cut Twilight Prophet soon as it has proven to be weaker than was hoping with its slow return on investment given the cost to play it. I managed to play my abzan partners deck once and I saw it have kind of a meh showing there and I feel it would probably be even worse in here. Also with such a low curve it seems like not a very good means to hit opponents for damage given the average will be something like 1.3 mana.
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[Modern] Allies
I agree with your assessment of Twilight Prophet. Return on investment not worth it.
Yea, I am still trying to not get things to the point where people won't play with me and my normal decks are close to doing that for some people
Last week I played Squee, Athreos, Squee and went 3/0 so I try generally to not go overboard. Sometimes when someone focus fires me really hard it will peev me and make me want to play something more aggressive but in general most of them don't have enough decks worth stepping things up. I have had to more or less put my Kozilek deck away because nobody really seems to have anything that can play against it in my meta. Its really too bad as its one of my favorite decks but it just escalates so fast that I am afraid they don't really have much of a chance against it.
Maybe I will have to go in one week and just play gross decks and chain my vamps, kozilek, abzan all back to back. In general though I try to weave in some of my jank mono white and such between some of my better decks so I am not playing too tryhard.
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[Modern] Allies
I wanted to drop in and give a few comments and updates.
1) I have been sharing this bookmarked page on youtube and facebook when people bring up Edgar or how they think agro is worthless in commander. I feel this deck has proven otherwise and is a lot of fun.
2) I am still on a budget and play with card I can find. As I have said before, I play in Peru and don't have access to simply buying from the the fireball channel or the kingdom of cards is not really an option.
Even on a budget and as a less optimized build, I am very happy with what this deck can do. The pressure it applies and its ability to refill its hand is impressive.
I agree with the comments about the focus of the cards: lands, ramp, aggressive creatures, anthems, card draw, and some answers to problem permanents.
It is interesting to see how a card actually works in a drck compared to the imagination of how it might work, like scapegoat.
I still find myself ramping into and casting our Commander almost every time I get to the six mana. The built in anthem he gives and pressure he applies is back breaking... and I am puzzled when I see how often other don't cast him.