While Kamigawa block is not known to have a lot of really strong cards, the spirit tribe, along with its arcane magic, has a lot of interesting potential. However, seeing that their creatures and magic was spread over all five colours, it was hard to create a good Commander deck that didn't feel like it was cutting off a lot of potential cards and the Blue / White spirit tribe from Innistrad only had Geist of Saint Traft as a potential Commander. In fact, Kamigawa block has only one legendary creature that was more than one colour, Iname as One, which pushed the deck in a combo direction and still had limited colour selection. I think a lot of the inclination to get Genju of the Realm to be considered a legendary creature is from this lack of other options for a viable spirit-tribal commander.
If it was designed and released today, I am sure there would have been more 2, 3, and 5 colour spirit legendary creatures in Kamigawa block. The block was designed during a time that felt that "starving" the environment of things before a set featuring them was released was a good idea. In this case, Ravnica was right around the corner, so they "starved" standard of gold cards right before its release. Kamigawa block and spirits had a second problem in that it was released just after the overpowered Mirrodin block, which is often a time when they tone down the power-level to provide a kind of reset to the format once the over-powered block rotates out, so most cards are not very strong individually.
Entering into this mix, we have O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, a 5-colour spirit legendary creature, the perfect Commander for a spirit tribal deck.
Mana Base: Playing a five colour deck is going to be hard, no matter what you do. If you have the cards, the dual lands are great, but recently WotC have been printing more lands with two land types, giving players more options here with a cycle of allied-coloured lands from Battle for Zendikar and Amonkhet. If you have the fetch lands, they are also really good, but there are alternatives that can get the job done in a pinch, like the cycle of slower fetchlands from Mirage, like Bad River and more general fetching cards like Terramorphic Expanse and Ash Barrens. It has probably never been easier to make a 5-colour mana base. I happen to have one of each of the dual lands and fetch lands, so I have them in the deck. I also put in a few five colour lands, but there are more that could be included, along with more basic lands.
I have found the Onna spirits, like Nikko-Onna and Haru-Onna, to be especially good. When you can get them along with a cost reduction artifact, like Urza's Incubator, they can provide a great source of repeatable spirit trigger and their "enter the battlefield" abilities are good for the deck. I wish I had found room for Kemuri-Onna, but I could not decide what to take out for it.
Spells: Nearly every spell in the deck is Arcane, which means they are a little slower than what you could otherwise get, but they trigger a good number of abilities on your spirits and the uses of Splice onto Arcane are real.
I feel like I am at the point where I have a deck filled with lots of interesting synergy, but I'm not sure what to take out to increase the overall power of the deck. I know the deck would be better with cards like Demonic Tutor and Rhystic Study, but trying to decide which of my other cards is simply worse than they are is difficult. Those cards are individually powerful, but offer no other synergies with the deck, while an individual spirit like Forked-Branch Garami might not look that powerful, it has the potential to trigger one or more other creatures in play and when it dies, because creatures always die, it could get me back two spirits from my graveyard, which is pretty strong.
I love this deck! I just built a spirit tribal with O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, though mine is more hokey (all 5 hondens, and am working on getting the list up on here. I will take a more in-depth look at your list later.
I thought about the Hondens, but they just have no mechanical synergy with Spirits or Arcane spells. While including them would be fun, especially when you can get two or three of them out at a time, I was trying to go for a deck that was more spirit and arcane based, and not just fun Kamigawa cards.
As it was, I had to lose most of the arcane cards to make room for the spirits I did include. I am especially sad about not making room for Horobi's Whisper, a great arcane removal spell.
Wow, Moonlit Strider is quite cool. I like that its sacrifice ability also gives me an on-demand Soulshift ability.
I can also easily see taking out Ghost-Lit Redeemer, it is not very high impact, even if you do get lucky and you can drop it early for some life gain.
I'm not sure if locking down a creature with Dungeon Geists is better than permanently taking control of one with Keiga, the Tide Star, but it is cheaper, which is helpful in a top-heavy deck.
I do also like Kami of False Hope. With just some recursion going on, it can provide quite a bit of protection to your life total.
Finally got my list up, located in my signature. How have the shoals been working for you? I really like the effect, but the fact that I'd have to exile some of my cards is concerning for me. My deck has a much higher average CMC than yours, so I suspect that speed is much more of a consideration in your list than it is in mine. Also, have you considered Fist of Suns? Like me, you have a lot of the higher CMC spirits, and I wonder if the fist would be worth the add so that you can begin dropping your big spirits much sooner?
I have always been a fan of the shoals. I've loved Shining Shoal since I first saw it printed. It also works well with the deck with the decent number of white cards in the deck, as does the Sickening Shoal. I don't often play them for free, but the option is there when I need it and the trickery you can do with Shining Shoal is not to be underestimated.
I looked at Fist of Suns, but for the most part I think I would rather play a regular mana acceleration card in its place, like Chromatic Lantern, Commander's Sphere, Coalition Relic, or Coldsteel heart. While the idea of dropping the cost of the expensive cards to five mana is nice, it doesn't fix our mana and at times that is going to be more important. It is a close thing and I think if I made room for all five Myojins I would consider it more.
Glad to see spirit tribal being notice with this I'm definitely working on one.
And for my suggestions I would make rooms for the following
Lifespinner - you can tutor up any legendary spirit to the battlefield immediately Long-Forgotten Gohei - this cheapens the arcane spells and also make sure spirits a tiny bit bigger Ribbons of the Reikai - easily get a ton of draw from this and it fits the spirit tribal theme Kodama of the South Tree - it's going to make your spirits bigger per cast (temporary) and also give me trample as well if your going to aground approach Iname as One - wow I'm shock this is not in your deck if you manage to cast it successfully you can grab another spirit from your deck and put it into play immediately Myojin of Life's Web - unbelievable this isn't in the deck either if you have a truck load of spirits in hand you can get that whole entire hand into play. (Yes I'm aware of most spirits prefer cast trigger but importantly is getting a army out for the win in edh and also there are ways of bouncing spirits back into hand to do triggers over and over again.) Kodama of the Center Tree - this spirit had the best soulshift of them all you can get almost any spirit back with this easily. (Just have a nice sized army.) Sekki, Seasons' Guide - token maker and can resurrect if you have aleast 8 spirits in play if your willing to sacrifice. Iname, Death Aspect - if you are adding patriarch's bidding like you said get this spirit in asap you can get almost the whole army in the grave then get it out with the sorcery particularly the two hexproof giver spirits Kira and the captain (drogskol). Selfless Spirit - I would do it if a creature boardwipe happens pop it and rescue your spirits. Kyoki, Sanity's Eclipse - lets shrink the opponents hands shall we. Yosei, the Morning Star - a nice little rattle snake for your opponents punish them with a one turn only stasis Terashi's Grasp artifact or enchantment removal texted spells must be by default added besides this one gives you life equal to the cost Spectral Shepherd - want a way to do spirit cast triggers again also have a panic button in case they try a trick this guy is your answer Ryusei, the Falling Star another useful rattlesnake this one is a board sweep (don't do it if your army is a nice size and lower than 5 toughness unless you divinity countered your dudes or have a temporary army indestructible trick. Field of Souls - by far the quickest way to get tokens into play your stuff dies 1/1 spirit token replacements Ethereal Haze - your fog of the deck and it synergizes with the theme.
I love this deck! I just built a spirit tribal with O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, though mine is more hokey (all 5 hondens, and am working on getting the list up on here. I will take a more in-depth look at your list later.
Haha sounds like the new Azami Soratami/Splice Into Arcane deck I'm working on. That does nothing but cast Soratami, Draw, and Splice until it loses, with style
Phantasmal Image on Drogskol Captain!
Myojin of Life's Web is really good... drops a hand full of spirits in a 5c deck. You should play Time of Need as well.
Introduction:
While Kamigawa block is not known to have a lot of really strong cards, the spirit tribe, along with its arcane magic, has a lot of interesting potential. However, seeing that their creatures and magic was spread over all five colours, it was hard to create a good Commander deck that didn't feel like it was cutting off a lot of potential cards and the Blue / White spirit tribe from Innistrad only had Geist of Saint Traft as a potential Commander. In fact, Kamigawa block has only one legendary creature that was more than one colour, Iname as One, which pushed the deck in a combo direction and still had limited colour selection. I think a lot of the inclination to get Genju of the Realm to be considered a legendary creature is from this lack of other options for a viable spirit-tribal commander.
If it was designed and released today, I am sure there would have been more 2, 3, and 5 colour spirit legendary creatures in Kamigawa block. The block was designed during a time that felt that "starving" the environment of things before a set featuring them was released was a good idea. In this case, Ravnica was right around the corner, so they "starved" standard of gold cards right before its release. Kamigawa block and spirits had a second problem in that it was released just after the overpowered Mirrodin block, which is often a time when they tone down the power-level to provide a kind of reset to the format once the over-powered block rotates out, so most cards are not very strong individually.
Entering into this mix, we have O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, a 5-colour spirit legendary creature, the perfect Commander for a spirit tribal deck.
The Deck:
1 O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami
Lands - 37 total
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cascading Cataracts
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Angel of Flight Alabaster
1 Arashi, the Sky Asunder
1 Bloodghast
1 Bounteous Kirin
1 Drogskol Captain
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Elder Pine of Jukai
1 Forked-Branch Garami
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Ghost-Lit Redeemer
1 Hana Kami
1 Haru-Onna
1 He Who Hungers
1 Iname, Life Aspect
1 Infernal Kirin
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Karmic Guide
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Kiri-Onna
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Loam Dweller
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Mirror Entity
1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Nikko-Onna
1 Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens
1 Petalmane Baku
1 Primordial Sage
1 Rattlechains
1 Sire of the Storm
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Thief of Hope
1 Yuki-Onna
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Herald's Horn
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Urza's Incubator
Card Draw - 2 total
1 Kindred Discovery
1 Murmurs from Beyond
Tutors - 2 total
1 Bring to Light
1 Conflux
Removal - 6 total
1 Hideous Laughter
1 Rend Flesh
1 Shining Shoal
1 Sickening Shoal
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wear Away
Other Spells - 8 total
1 Death Denied
1 Door of Destinies
1 Kindred Boon
1 Otherworldly Journey
1 Seasons Past
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Soulless Revival
1 That Which Was Taken
Deck Description:
Mana Base: Playing a five colour deck is going to be hard, no matter what you do. If you have the cards, the dual lands are great, but recently WotC have been printing more lands with two land types, giving players more options here with a cycle of allied-coloured lands from Battle for Zendikar and Amonkhet. If you have the fetch lands, they are also really good, but there are alternatives that can get the job done in a pinch, like the cycle of slower fetchlands from Mirage, like Bad River and more general fetching cards like Terramorphic Expanse and Ash Barrens. It has probably never been easier to make a 5-colour mana base. I happen to have one of each of the dual lands and fetch lands, so I have them in the deck. I also put in a few five colour lands, but there are more that could be included, along with more basic lands.
Creatures: Lots of spirits! I tried to have a good mix of spirits that trigger when you play other spirits or arcane spells, like Elder Pine of Jukai and Petalmane Baku, and spirits that are just good on their own, like Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit, Kagemaro, First to Suffer, and Taurean Mauler.
I have found the Onna spirits, like Nikko-Onna and Haru-Onna, to be especially good. When you can get them along with a cost reduction artifact, like Urza's Incubator, they can provide a great source of repeatable spirit trigger and their "enter the battlefield" abilities are good for the deck. I wish I had found room for Kemuri-Onna, but I could not decide what to take out for it.
Spells: Nearly every spell in the deck is Arcane, which means they are a little slower than what you could otherwise get, but they trigger a good number of abilities on your spirits and the uses of Splice onto Arcane are real.
Possible Includes: There are numerous spirits and spells that didn't make the cut into my first played version of this deck, from Banshee of the Dread Choir, Selfless Spirit, and Niblis of Frost to Promise of Bunrei and Patriarch's Bidding (too many other tribal decks in my local metagame).
Conclusion:
I feel like I am at the point where I have a deck filled with lots of interesting synergy, but I'm not sure what to take out to increase the overall power of the deck. I know the deck would be better with cards like Demonic Tutor and Rhystic Study, but trying to decide which of my other cards is simply worse than they are is difficult. Those cards are individually powerful, but offer no other synergies with the deck, while an individual spirit like Forked-Branch Garami might not look that powerful, it has the potential to trigger one or more other creatures in play and when it dies, because creatures always die, it could get me back two spirits from my graveyard, which is pretty strong.
Comments and thoughts are welcome.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI thought about the Hondens, but they just have no mechanical synergy with Spirits or Arcane spells. While including them would be fun, especially when you can get two or three of them out at a time, I was trying to go for a deck that was more spirit and arcane based, and not just fun Kamigawa cards.
As it was, I had to lose most of the arcane cards to make room for the spirits I did include. I am especially sad about not making room for Horobi's Whisper, a great arcane removal spell.
The cards I'd consider cutting from your list are Keiga, the Tide Star (I prefer Dungeon Geists for a similar role), Bloodghast, and Ghost-Lit Redeemer.
I really like the oona spirits, I only had 1 in my list, but after looking at yours I think I will add more.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI can also easily see taking out Ghost-Lit Redeemer, it is not very high impact, even if you do get lucky and you can drop it early for some life gain.
I'm not sure if locking down a creature with Dungeon Geists is better than permanently taking control of one with Keiga, the Tide Star, but it is cheaper, which is helpful in a top-heavy deck.
I do also like Kami of False Hope. With just some recursion going on, it can provide quite a bit of protection to your life total.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI looked at Fist of Suns, but for the most part I think I would rather play a regular mana acceleration card in its place, like Chromatic Lantern, Commander's Sphere, Coalition Relic, or Coldsteel heart. While the idea of dropping the cost of the expensive cards to five mana is nice, it doesn't fix our mana and at times that is going to be more important. It is a close thing and I think if I made room for all five Myojins I would consider it more.
And for my suggestions I would make rooms for the following
Lifespinner - you can tutor up any legendary spirit to the battlefield immediately
Long-Forgotten Gohei - this cheapens the arcane spells and also make sure spirits a tiny bit bigger
Ribbons of the Reikai - easily get a ton of draw from this and it fits the spirit tribal theme
Kodama of the South Tree - it's going to make your spirits bigger per cast (temporary) and also give me trample as well if your going to aground approach
Iname as One - wow I'm shock this is not in your deck if you manage to cast it successfully you can grab another spirit from your deck and put it into play immediately
Myojin of Life's Web - unbelievable this isn't in the deck either if you have a truck load of spirits in hand you can get that whole entire hand into play. (Yes I'm aware of most spirits prefer cast trigger but importantly is getting a army out for the win in edh and also there are ways of bouncing spirits back into hand to do triggers over and over again.)
Kodama of the Center Tree - this spirit had the best soulshift of them all you can get almost any spirit back with this easily. (Just have a nice sized army.)
Sekki, Seasons' Guide - token maker and can resurrect if you have aleast 8 spirits in play if your willing to sacrifice.
Iname, Death Aspect - if you are adding patriarch's bidding like you said get this spirit in asap you can get almost the whole army in the grave then get it out with the sorcery particularly the two hexproof giver spirits Kira and the captain (drogskol).
Selfless Spirit - I would do it if a creature boardwipe happens pop it and rescue your spirits.
Kyoki, Sanity's Eclipse - lets shrink the opponents hands shall we.
Yosei, the Morning Star - a nice little rattle snake for your opponents punish them with a one turn only stasis
Terashi's Grasp artifact or enchantment removal texted spells must be by default added besides this one gives you life equal to the cost
Spectral Shepherd - want a way to do spirit cast triggers again also have a panic button in case they try a trick this guy is your answer
Ryusei, the Falling Star another useful rattlesnake this one is a board sweep (don't do it if your army is a nice size and lower than 5 toughness unless you divinity countered your dudes or have a temporary army indestructible trick.
Field of Souls - by far the quickest way to get tokens into play your stuff dies 1/1 spirit token replacements
Ethereal Haze - your fog of the deck and it synergizes with the theme.
Phantasmal Image on Drogskol Captain!
Myojin of Life's Web is really good... drops a hand full of spirits in a 5c deck. You should play Time of Need as well.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||