Hi all,
I recently picked up the Draconic Dominance commander deck and my inner Timmy player loved the idea of just playing dragons that win the game.
The problem I had after some tinkering and trying to capitalize on The Ur-Dragon ability is two fold. Having the ramp to play dragons 2 maybe 3 turns before they hit play, and making sure I have some in my hand to start. Some minor problems I ran into, that being the other decks in my play group are either faster than mine (vampires, combo,elves, etc) or deal with my dragons immediately (control), most dragons not having haste is a problem too.
So here is the deck list I've been toying with. Changes were made to allow for more ramp, removal, and haste cards while making sure the dragons I do play are impactful in some way.
Some possible cards I'm debating adding are Dragonlord Dromoka
With Dragonlord he gives me added protection if I have to tap out or if I'm attacking Rimescale Dragon
All I'd have to do is change lands to snow and I could in theory start prema-tapping my opponents creatures Thunderbreak Regent
a free bolt someone when they target my dragons? I'll take it Archetype of Aggression
Dragons need to have their damage go through to work. Putting this guy down stops the inevitable chump block brigade Monastery Siege
Additional draw OR added protection? Sure I have to discard, but chances are I'd have a dead card anyways.
along with swamping out the tri-lands or some of them for the check lands (the cycle of Dragonskull Summit and Blackcleave Cliffs, pain lands, lairs, and the land cycle of Rugged Prairie type lands to allow access to a smoother mana base which in turn would accelerate my ramp because I wouldn't have to wait to untap every turn
I also bought the deck and play the Ur-Dragon. I don't know your meta but in my meta the decks are powerful but at the same time quite casual, we don't have any combo or lock decks and a few cards like Sol Ring are not played. So what I say may not be fully applicable for you.
First, what I think are the worst cards in your deck are the Lairs. They fix your mana and are falvourful, but they also slow you down so much because of the bounce clause they have. This is for sure not the thing you want in a deck full of expensive creatures.
My list is not fully tuned, but I play a lot of fetches and shocks. So regarding the check and filter lands, I can't really say something about those because I haven't tried them. But I think the tri lands are better for you, check lands will probably come into play tapped often and filter lands probably won't be able to make colored that often, especially in the early game. Your list is also missing Path of Ancestry and Crucible of the Spirit Dragon and you could try other 5-color lands like Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, City of Brass or Grand Coliseum.
Regarding other ramp and fixing I think about 12-14 spells is a good number wich gives you a good chance to draw 2 of them early. I also decided to reduce the costs of my spells a bit so that I am able to maybe play two of them early and put a dragon down on turn 4 or at least turn 5 wich often works. Ramps I play are Wayfarer's Bauble, Sakura Trib Elder, Farseek, Nature's Lore (those two may not be that interesting for you because you don't play duals and fetches), Fellwar Stone, Darksteel Ingot, Herald's Horn (doubles as card advantage), Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, Urza's Incubator, Dragonspeaker Shaman (those two are good they ramp 2!), Prismatic Geoscope (also not good without duals) and Frontier Siege wich I play with the Dragons mode more often than Khans.
Hope that helps, I may write more later, going to bed now.
If fast deck are a problem play Rule of Law effects.
Filter lands are not really that great in 5 color decks because they don't actually produce colored mana. If you run all 10 of them bad things will happen. Filter lands are best in 2-3 color decks that are really greedy with their mana costs (lots of double and triple colored mana symbols in spell costs).
Out Wasitora, Nekoru Queen
While a dragon, I don't think my deck was equipped enough to truly take advantage of her ability Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
I had originally Scion and Curiosity in the deck, but once I ditched Scion and Curiosity Niv no longer found a place Defense Grid
While powerfully in the ability to deter spells on my turn, I realized with the array of my own instants that it wouldn't work in my favor Nihil Spellbomb
While a good anti-graveyard card with the cantrip ability, I realized that Bojuka Bog was the better option in filling two roles that spellbomb
2 Mountain
I didn't need as many basics as I thought, and with the lands I have cutting a few will help in less of a mana flood Temple of Malice
I decent dual scry land, I found the effect alright but didn't need that many duals.
In Thunderbreaker Regent
A good dragon that deters effects pointed at my dragons, 3 may not seem like a lot, but it'll get there Archetype of Aggression
An early cost minion that will help my dragons get their damage through and deter chump blocking Dragonlord Dromoka Defense Grid but better since it's stabled to a dragon and doesn't effect me Urza's Incubator
Cheaply costed artifact that acts as a second Dragonspeaker Shaman? Sign me up. Monastery Siege
A two fold card. Helps me cycle bad cards from my hand while allowing me to draw more, and gives minor protection to my permanents Kindred Boon
At first I wanted to put in Heroic Intervention and Boros Charm for some resistance to my board clears/opponents but Kindred Boon helps in the long run at instant speed on any of my dragons. Bojuka Bog
A land that acts as graveyard hate? I'll take it.
Overall with the changes made, and some super good card suggestions made by Trigunner, I saw some major improvements not only in mana, but in being able to cast dragons cheaper. This deck isn't 100% done yet, and I'm still looking forward to your guyes opinions on the changes I made, and any changes that may help achieve this decks full potential.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
There is a really good thread here (click) wich talks about the Draconic Domination deck, you should look there for suggestions.
An especially good one imho is to use the Battle for Zendikar duals like Cinder Glade and the Mirage Fetches like Bad River. While still having a your lands etb tapped often those would help you play with cards like Farseek, Nature`s Lore etc. The cycling dual lands from Amonkhet are an option too but always etb tapped. Also good old Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse were suggested and I would second that. You should play a few more Basic Lands to your list if you want to add those cards, but I think it's a solid option for a 5-color manabase.
A legit way to tackle the mana of the deck is to treat it as a RG deck wich splashes all the other colors and plays basic fetching ramp spells like Sakura Tribe Elder, Kodama's Reach, Cultivate, etc. It's doesn't make the most powerful mana base for the deck, but it shouldn't slow you down much and make WUBRG easily avaible. And it doesn't cost you a fortune!
Anyways as long as you don't have a mana base with Beta duals or shocks, plus fetches I would suggest for you to reduce the number of cards with double coloured mana costs you play unless it's double red wich you just need for many of your dragons (Even with my near perfect mana base I find Niv-Mizzets cost prohibitive at times). And I would in general look to reduce the mana curve of your non-dragon spells, so that you can play more than one spell a turn later in the game and have options early in the game besides ramping and fixing. So I would reduce the number of wraths for cheap spot removal and also switch some of the other more expensive instants and sorceries out.
Are all cheap (money wise), flexible and can replace cards Rain of Thorns or Akroma's Vengeance for example. Sylvan Reclamation while costing a bit more mana is better then Return to Dust imho, because it's effect is more powerful it doesn't cost double white and has the option to fix your mana.
For portection protection spells I would suggest Swan Song. It's a single mana to keep up and counters everything that could really make you worry if you have a bunch of dragons out. Kindred Boon is a cool card, but it's to mana intensive and if the enchantment is removed all your creatures lose indestructible (because the ability is not granted through the counter but the enchantment).
Dragonlords Prerogative and Harmonize are other cards that can be swapped out for cards like Rhystic Study (costs money though), Elemental Bond and Temur Ascendancy (wich also grants haste), maybe also add Curse of Verbosity back into the deck again (don't know how good that one really is, have to test more). What I like about those enchantments is that I can drop them early and they keep drawing me cards so that I can keep slamming dragons. I also play Monastery Siege but atm I am not sure about it, may switch that one out in the future.
Another card I don't like in the deck in general is Mirror of the Forbears. One would think that copying a dragon for cheap, giving it pseudo haste is good, but in reality it just adds another mana to the cost of your dragons and doesn't work with most of them because they are legendary. It's just really bad in this deck.
Taking into account what Trigunner recommended, I did noticed I had way too much mass removal and not enough singular target removal as well as several dead cards I didn't even notice, those being Mirror of Forebears among others. Adding in a few counterspells to help smooth out control as well as more stable draw effects to dig, I feel this deck is slowly coming together.
I did saw your post before you edited it, but didn't have the opportunity to comment before. I did not want to propose certain switches, but wanted to provide food for thought. I don't know wich cards are within your budget and what your playgroup plays excactly, wich makes it harder to evaluate and propose specific cards. Also building a Commander deck is a process, tuning 100 card singleton is much harder than tuning the 60 card 4-of deck and I believe that there is no perfect configuration for a Commander deck, there are just so many options and so few slots. In the end you have to try and see what works for you and your playgroup.
To comment on your recent changes, I like the cuts of Sarkhan and Archetype of Aggression, but don't like the addition of the expensive counterspells, as it is hard to keep up 4 or 5 mana if you want to slam dragons at the same time. And the UUU cost on Cryptic Command is so prohibitive for this deck. Maybe try Arcane Denial if you want a counterspell?
You didn't force my hand. I ended up taking a step back and thinking of what cards you proposed and what I needed.
Hence the Sarkhan and Archetype cuts.
So very aggressive decks or super control decks. Which is what played into my decision of cutting some mass removal for more singular target removal which allow me to remove a singular major threat then play a dragon, or play a mass boardwipe and on the following turn a couple of dragons.
Signal the Clans
Tutor for some better late game draw sarkhan's triumph
See signal the clans Aseticism
(a temporary card being used to see how it works in terms of protection. May be cut. Further testing required) Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Gives haste, gains all dragons back and untaps them? Should've put him in a long time ago.
Possible additions
fist of suns
With the amount of ramp I have, I may attempt to see how this card does. It would put a bit of a strain on my mana base.
Reasoning behind the cuts is, as my friend said to me "You rarely want to hold mana on a spell. If you're holding mana then you're not playing dragons. And not playing dragons means you aren't playing the deck you're telling me you want to play."
Thank you very much for this thread OP! I've been in the same boat since picking up this deck, but I'm not near as experienced as you guys so trying to figure out how to modify this deck is not easy.
Anyone have any thoughts about using Scourge of the Throne or Exploration in this deck? I got an amazing deal on a complete set of Conspiracy and thought those two seemed really great, but I could be wrong.
In my opinion, you're trying to play too many roles in this deck.
You're simply never going to have enough mana in this deck to do anything except play one spell per turn (pretty much), which is always going to put you in the losing bracket long term.
You are trying to balance the deck out with control elements, but sometimes you really need to choose what exactly you need to be doing as an overall strategy. Do you play out a Dragon OR hold up mana for disruption? You'll never be able to do both reliable and this is where suddenly disruption isn't so synergistic. Its the unfortunate consequence of high casting cost creatures.
I would look to add more mana ramp and even fewer creatures. There are plenty of terrible Dragons in this list: Tyrant's Familiar, Intet, the Dreamer (you'll never want to spend the 3 mana), Dromoka, the Eternal, Ojutai, Soul of Winter, Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
Obviously the biggest improvements $$ wise is in the land base. Whats your budget?
I recently picked up the Draconic Dominance commander deck and my inner Timmy player loved the idea of just playing dragons that win the game.
The problem I had after some tinkering and trying to capitalize on The Ur-Dragon ability is two fold. Having the ramp to play dragons 2 maybe 3 turns before they hit play, and making sure I have some in my hand to start. Some minor problems I ran into, that being the other decks in my play group are either faster than mine (vampires, combo,elves, etc) or deal with my dragons immediately (control), most dragons not having haste is a problem too.
So here is the deck list I've been toying with. Changes were made to allow for more ramp, removal, and haste cards while making sure the dragons I do play are impactful in some way.
Lands = 38
4 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Vivid Grove
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Command Tower
1 Savage Lands
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Mana Confluence
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Temple of Malice
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Froniter Bivouac
1 Crosis's Catacombs
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Opulent Palace
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
Spells = 21
Ramp 3
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Explosive Vegetation
Removal 12
1 Hull Breach
1 Return to Dust
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
1 Rain of Thorns
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Crux of Fate
1 Austere Command
1 Shatterstorm
1 Akroma's Vengeance
Draw 2
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
1 Harmonize
Haste 2
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Dragon Tempest
Other 2
1 Frontier Siege
1 Palace Siege
Artifacts = 12
Mana Rocks 7
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Sol Ring
1 Herald's Horn
1 Mana Crypt
Haste 2
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mirror of the Forebears
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Defense Grid
Creatures = 27
Dragons 23
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Wasitora, Nekoru Queen
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1 Scalelord Reckoner
1 Ojutai, Soul of Winter
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Crosis, the Purger
1 Dromoka, the Eternal
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Scourge of Valkas
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Intet, the Dreamer
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Deathbringer Regent
1 Savage Ventmaw
Ramp 4
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Dragonspeaker Shaman
1 Somberwald Sage
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Some possible cards I'm debating adding are
Dragonlord Dromoka
With Dragonlord he gives me added protection if I have to tap out or if I'm attacking
Rimescale Dragon
All I'd have to do is change lands to snow and I could in theory start prema-tapping my opponents creatures
Thunderbreak Regent
a free bolt someone when they target my dragons? I'll take it
Archetype of Aggression
Dragons need to have their damage go through to work. Putting this guy down stops the inevitable chump block brigade
Monastery Siege
Additional draw OR added protection? Sure I have to discard, but chances are I'd have a dead card anyways.
along with swamping out the tri-lands or some of them for the check lands (the cycle of Dragonskull Summit and Blackcleave Cliffs, pain lands, lairs, and the land cycle of Rugged Prairie type lands to allow access to a smoother mana base which in turn would accelerate my ramp because I wouldn't have to wait to untap every turn
First, what I think are the worst cards in your deck are the Lairs. They fix your mana and are falvourful, but they also slow you down so much because of the bounce clause they have. This is for sure not the thing you want in a deck full of expensive creatures.
My list is not fully tuned, but I play a lot of fetches and shocks. So regarding the check and filter lands, I can't really say something about those because I haven't tried them. But I think the tri lands are better for you, check lands will probably come into play tapped often and filter lands probably won't be able to make colored that often, especially in the early game. Your list is also missing Path of Ancestry and Crucible of the Spirit Dragon and you could try other 5-color lands like Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, City of Brass or Grand Coliseum.
Regarding other ramp and fixing I think about 12-14 spells is a good number wich gives you a good chance to draw 2 of them early. I also decided to reduce the costs of my spells a bit so that I am able to maybe play two of them early and put a dragon down on turn 4 or at least turn 5 wich often works. Ramps I play are Wayfarer's Bauble, Sakura Trib Elder, Farseek, Nature's Lore (those two may not be that interesting for you because you don't play duals and fetches), Fellwar Stone, Darksteel Ingot, Herald's Horn (doubles as card advantage), Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, Urza's Incubator, Dragonspeaker Shaman (those two are good they ramp 2!), Prismatic Geoscope (also not good without duals) and Frontier Siege wich I play with the Dragons mode more often than Khans.
Hope that helps, I may write more later, going to bed now.
Filter lands are not really that great in 5 color decks because they don't actually produce colored mana. If you run all 10 of them bad things will happen. Filter lands are best in 2-3 color decks that are really greedy with their mana costs (lots of double and triple colored mana symbols in spell costs).
Out
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen
While a dragon, I don't think my deck was equipped enough to truly take advantage of her ability
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
I had originally Scion and Curiosity in the deck, but once I ditched Scion and Curiosity Niv no longer found a place
Defense Grid
While powerfully in the ability to deter spells on my turn, I realized with the array of my own instants that it wouldn't work in my favor
Nihil Spellbomb
While a good anti-graveyard card with the cantrip ability, I realized that Bojuka Bog was the better option in filling two roles that spellbomb
2 Mountain
I didn't need as many basics as I thought, and with the lands I have cutting a few will help in less of a mana flood
Temple of Malice
I decent dual scry land, I found the effect alright but didn't need that many duals.
Thunderbreaker Regent
A good dragon that deters effects pointed at my dragons, 3 may not seem like a lot, but it'll get there
Archetype of Aggression
An early cost minion that will help my dragons get their damage through and deter chump blocking
Dragonlord Dromoka
Defense Grid but better since it's stabled to a dragon and doesn't effect me
Urza's Incubator
Cheaply costed artifact that acts as a second Dragonspeaker Shaman? Sign me up.
Monastery Siege
A two fold card. Helps me cycle bad cards from my hand while allowing me to draw more, and gives minor protection to my permanents
Kindred Boon
At first I wanted to put in Heroic Intervention and Boros Charm for some resistance to my board clears/opponents but Kindred Boon helps in the long run at instant speed on any of my dragons.
Bojuka Bog
A land that acts as graveyard hate? I'll take it.
New Deck List
Lands = 36
2 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Vivid Grove
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Command Tower
1 Savage Lands
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Mana Confluence
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Froniter Bivouac
1 Crosis's Catacombs
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Opulent Palace
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
Spells = 23
Ramp 3
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Explosive Vegetation
Removal 12
1 Hull Breach
1 Return to Dust
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
1 Rain of Thorns
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Crux of Fate
1 Austere Command
1 Shatterstorm
1 Akroma's Vengeance
Draw 3
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
1 Harmonize
1 Monastery Siege
Haste 2
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Dragon Tempest
Other 3
1 Frontier Siege
1 Palace Siege
1 Kindred Boon
Artifacts = 11
Mana Rocks 7
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Sol Ring
1 Herald's Horn
1 Mana Crypt
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Lightning Greaves
Other 2
1 Mirror of the Forebears
1 Urza's Incubator
Creatures = 28
Dragons 23
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Thunderbreaker Regent
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1 Scalelord Reckoner
1 Ojutai, Soul of Winter
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Crosis, the Purger
1 Dromoka, the Eternal
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Scourge of Valkas
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Intet, the Dreamer
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Deathbringer Regent
1 Savage Ventmaw
Ramp 4
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Dragonspeaker Shaman
1 Somberwald Sage
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1 Archetype of Aggression
Overall with the changes made, and some super good card suggestions made by Trigunner, I saw some major improvements not only in mana, but in being able to cast dragons cheaper. This deck isn't 100% done yet, and I'm still looking forward to your guyes opinions on the changes I made, and any changes that may help achieve this decks full potential.
An especially good one imho is to use the Battle for Zendikar duals like Cinder Glade and the Mirage Fetches like Bad River. While still having a your lands etb tapped often those would help you play with cards like Farseek, Nature`s Lore etc. The cycling dual lands from Amonkhet are an option too but always etb tapped. Also good old Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse were suggested and I would second that. You should play a few more Basic Lands to your list if you want to add those cards, but I think it's a solid option for a 5-color manabase.
A legit way to tackle the mana of the deck is to treat it as a RG deck wich splashes all the other colors and plays basic fetching ramp spells like Sakura Tribe Elder, Kodama's Reach, Cultivate, etc. It's doesn't make the most powerful mana base for the deck, but it shouldn't slow you down much and make WUBRG easily avaible. And it doesn't cost you a fortune!
Anyways as long as you don't have a mana base with Beta duals or shocks, plus fetches I would suggest for you to reduce the number of cards with double coloured mana costs you play unless it's double red wich you just need for many of your dragons (Even with my near perfect mana base I find Niv-Mizzets cost prohibitive at times). And I would in general look to reduce the mana curve of your non-dragon spells, so that you can play more than one spell a turn later in the game and have options early in the game besides ramping and fixing. So I would reduce the number of wraths for cheap spot removal and also switch some of the other more expensive instants and sorceries out.
Are all cheap (money wise), flexible and can replace cards Rain of Thorns or Akroma's Vengeance for example. Sylvan Reclamation while costing a bit more mana is better then Return to Dust imho, because it's effect is more powerful it doesn't cost double white and has the option to fix your mana.
For portection protection spells I would suggest Swan Song. It's a single mana to keep up and counters everything that could really make you worry if you have a bunch of dragons out. Kindred Boon is a cool card, but it's to mana intensive and if the enchantment is removed all your creatures lose indestructible (because the ability is not granted through the counter but the enchantment).
Dragonlords Prerogative and Harmonize are other cards that can be swapped out for cards like Rhystic Study (costs money though), Elemental Bond and Temur Ascendancy (wich also grants haste), maybe also add Curse of Verbosity back into the deck again (don't know how good that one really is, have to test more). What I like about those enchantments is that I can drop them early and they keep drawing me cards so that I can keep slamming dragons. I also play Monastery Siege but atm I am not sure about it, may switch that one out in the future.
Another card I don't like in the deck in general is Mirror of the Forbears. One would think that copying a dragon for cheap, giving it pseudo haste is good, but in reality it just adds another mana to the cost of your dragons and doesn't work with most of them because they are legendary. It's just really bad in this deck.
Lands = 36
2 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Vivid Grove
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Command Tower
1 Savage Lands
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Mana Confluence
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Froniter Bivouac
1 Crosis's Catacombs
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Opulent Palace
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
Spells = 23
Ramp 3
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Explosive Vegetation
Removal 12
1 Hull Breach
1 Return to Dust
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
1 Rain of Thorns
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Crux of Fate
1 Austere Command
1 Shatterstorm
1 Akroma's Vengeance
Draw 3
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
1 Harmonize
1 Monastery Siege
Haste 2
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Dragon Tempest
Other 3
1 Frontier Siege
1 Palace Siege
1 Kindred Boon
Artifacts = 11
Mana Rocks 7
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Sol Ring
1 Herald's Horn
1 Mana Crypt
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Lightning Greaves
Other 2
1 Mirror of the Forebears
1 Urza's Incubator
Creatures = 28
Dragons 23
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Thunderbreaker Regent
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1 Scalelord Reckoner
1 Ojutai, Soul of Winter
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Crosis, the Purger
1 Dromoka, the Eternal
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Scourge of Valkas
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Intet, the Dreamer
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Deathbringer Regent
1 Savage Ventmaw
Ramp 4
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Dragonspeaker Shaman
1 Somberwald Sage
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1 Archetype of Aggression
Deck Update
1 The Ur-Dragon
Lands = 36
2 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Vivid Grove
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Command Tower
1 Savage Lands
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Mana Confluence
1 Darogaaz's Caldera
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Crosis's Catacombs
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Opulent Palace
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Jungle Shrine
Dragons = 23
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Savage Ventmaw
1 Deathbringer Regent
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Intet, the Dreamer
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Scourge of Valkas
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Dromoka, the Eternal
1 Crosis, the Purger
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Thunderbreaker Regent
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Ojutai, Soul of Winter
1 Scalelord Reckoner
1 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
Non-Dragons = 4
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Dragonspeaker Shaman
1 Somberwald Sage
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Spells = 27
Draw Spells = 4
1 Harmonize
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
1 Monastery Siege
1 Temur Ascendancy
1 Vandalblast
1 Vindicate
1 Putrefy
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Wrath of God
1 Hull Breach
1 Austere Command
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Crux of Fate
1 Shatterstorm
1 Mortify
1 Sylvan Reclamation
Ramp = 3
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Explosive Vegetation
Counterspells = 4
1 Desertion
1 Cryptic Command
1 Rewind
1 Swan Song
Other = 3
1 Dragon Tempest
1 Palace Siege
1 Frontier Siege
Artifacts = 9
Mana Rocks = 8
(If you want to get technical and say Urza's Incubator and Herald's Horn count as mana rocks)
1 Herald's Horn
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Urza's Incubator
1 Mana Crypt
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Sol Ring
1 Lightning Greaves
Taking into account what Trigunner recommended, I did noticed I had way too much mass removal and not enough singular target removal as well as several dead cards I didn't even notice, those being Mirror of Forebears among others. Adding in a few counterspells to help smooth out control as well as more stable draw effects to dig, I feel this deck is slowly coming together.
To comment on your recent changes, I like the cuts of Sarkhan and Archetype of Aggression, but don't like the addition of the expensive counterspells, as it is hard to keep up 4 or 5 mana if you want to slam dragons at the same time. And the UUU cost on Cryptic Command is so prohibitive for this deck. Maybe try Arcane Denial if you want a counterspell?
Hence the Sarkhan and Archetype cuts.
In terms of what I face at the schools pick up games,
Some I've noticed/played are
Animar, soul of elements
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kambal, Consul, of Allocation
Rhys the redeemed
Daretti, scrap savant aka stacks
Ramos, Dragon Engine aka super friends.
Edgar Markov
Inalla, Archmage Ritualist
So very aggressive decks or super control decks. Which is what played into my decision of cutting some mass removal for more singular target removal which allow me to remove a singular major threat then play a dragon, or play a mass boardwipe and on the following turn a couple of dragons.
Edit as of 9/11 9:50pm:
Cards taken out:
Swan Song
Arcane Denial (formally Cryptic Command )
Rewind
Desertion
wayfarer's bauble
After testing, I feel I have enough ramp to remove this card
exploration
Pretty good card if I draw it in the first 3-4 turns. It ends up being a dead card that isn't reliable enough.
Cards added:
Signal the Clans
Tutor for some better late game draw
sarkhan's triumph
See signal the clans
Aseticism
(a temporary card being used to see how it works in terms of protection. May be cut. Further testing required)
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Gives haste, gains all dragons back and untaps them? Should've put him in a long time ago.
Possible additions
fist of suns
With the amount of ramp I have, I may attempt to see how this card does. It would put a bit of a strain on my mana base.
Reasoning behind the cuts is, as my friend said to me "You rarely want to hold mana on a spell. If you're holding mana then you're not playing dragons. And not playing dragons means you aren't playing the deck you're telling me you want to play."
Current deck as of 9/12 9:32pm
1 The Ur-Dragon
Lands = 36
2 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Vivid Grove
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Command Tower
1 Savage Lands
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Crag
1 Mana Confluence
1 Darogaaz's Caldera
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Crosis's Catacombs
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Opulent Palace
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Jungle Shrine
Dragons = 24
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
1 Savage Ventmaw
1 Deathbringer Regent
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Intet, the Dreamer
1 Tyrant's Familiar
1 Scourge of Valkas
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Dromoka, the Eternal
1 Crosis, the Purger
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Atarka, World Render
1 Thunderbreaker Regent
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Ojutai, Soul of Winter
1 Scalelord Reckoner
1 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
Non-Dragons = 4
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Dragonspeaker Shaman
1 Somberwald Sage
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Spells = 26
Draw Spells = 4
1 Harmonize
1 Dragonlord's Prerogative
1 Monastery Siege
1 Temur Ascendancy
1 Vandalblast
1 Vindicate
1 Putrefy
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Wrath of God
1 Hull Breach
1 Austere Command
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Crux of Fate
1 Shatterstorm
1 Mortify
1 Sylvan Reclamation
Ramp = 3
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Explosive Vegetation
Tutors = 2
1 Signal the Clans
1 Sarkhan's Triumph
Other = 4
1 Dragon Tempest
1 Palace Siege
1 Frontier Siege
1 Asceticism
Artifacts = 9
Mana Rocks = 8
1 Herald's Horn
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Urza's Incubator
1 Mana Crypt
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Sol Ring
Other = 1
1 Lightning Greaves
Anyone have any thoughts about using Scourge of the Throne or Exploration in this deck? I got an amazing deal on a complete set of Conspiracy and thought those two seemed really great, but I could be wrong.
You're simply never going to have enough mana in this deck to do anything except play one spell per turn (pretty much), which is always going to put you in the losing bracket long term.
You are trying to balance the deck out with control elements, but sometimes you really need to choose what exactly you need to be doing as an overall strategy. Do you play out a Dragon OR hold up mana for disruption? You'll never be able to do both reliable and this is where suddenly disruption isn't so synergistic. Its the unfortunate consequence of high casting cost creatures.
I would look to add more mana ramp and even fewer creatures. There are plenty of terrible Dragons in this list: Tyrant's Familiar, Intet, the Dreamer (you'll never want to spend the 3 mana), Dromoka, the Eternal, Ojutai, Soul of Winter, Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
Obviously the biggest improvements $$ wise is in the land base. Whats your budget?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith