Controlling Dissidents is a semi-competitive UBR EDH deck designed for small multiplayer games but can also perform successfully in duels and larger multiplayer games. The deck is a midrange control decks with an instant and sorcery spells theme. Controlling Dissidents runs several efficient instant and sorcery spells with a converted mana cost of two or less to ensure early control of the board state along with the ability to easily recast spells later in the game with Kess, Dissident Mage. The deck's objective is to control the board in the early and mid game with mana efficient spells like Pyroclasm, Flame Slash, and Reality Shift while maintaining card advantage though the commander. Controlling Dissidents wins the game by overwhelming our opponents with our card advantage to eventually cast powerful spells or creatures towards the end of the game. The deck is powerful and can hold its head in competitive circles but also perform in casual kitchen table games without being too oppressive.
Why Kess?
Kess, Dissident Mage is a legendary Human Wizard with a mana cost of 1UBR. She has flying and is a 3/4. Kess, Dissident Mage has respectable evasive body with a reasonable converted mana cost. UBR are excellent colors for control based decks offering spot removal, mass removal, card advantage and land destruction. The main reason to run Kess, Dissident Mage is her unique ability:
During each of your turns, you may cast an instant or sorcery card from your graveyard.
If a card cast this way would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
This is a very powerful ability that is somewhat comparable to Dralnu, Lich Lord, another spell based legendary creature that enables recursion of spells from the graveyard. While Kess, Dissident Mage can only use her ability to cast spells during our turn, in nearly every other way she is better than Dralnu, Lich Lord. She costs less mana, has better stats, offers an additional color and her ability isn't an activated ability so she can reuse a spell the same turn you cast her.
Our commander's ability allows us to have access to selected card advantage from the command zone. This is a huge deal and offers numerous benefits. Her ability allows us to push our spells further, for example we can cast a Lightning Bolt from our hand and then in the same turn recast Lightning Bolt with Kess to allow us to remove a Sun Titan for RR. Alternatively we can cast Lightning Bolt on turn two to destroy a Elvish Mystic. By the time it is turn three or four, our opponent may be wary about casting Yisan, the Wanderer Bard or Selvala, Heart of the Wilds fearing that we could use Kess, Dissident Mage to recast our Lightning Bolt and remove their commander. Low converted mana cost spells like Flame Slash, Preordain, Fatal Push and Pryoclasm are very useful early game, but when reused they become even more powerful.
Perhaps the best part about Kess, Dissident Mage is her ability specifically allows us to cast an instant or sorcery from our graveyard rather than the spell gaining flashback. This allows us to pay for Overload abilities this way (i.e. Cyclonic Rift, Vandalblast) and use Buyback from the graveyard (Capsize) along with Kicker (Rite of Replication).
You should play Controlling Dissidents if:
You enjoy playing with instant and sorcery spells more than creature spells.
You like having many options and making decisions.
You like being able to control the board.
You like playing a deck that has good synergy with its commander without needing to rely on it to win.
Controlling Dissidents might not be for you if:
You like to win through commander damage.
You prefer to play a linear deck that is easy to pilot.
You prefer to play a deck that doesn't rely on its graveyard.
You prefer playing with nonland permanents over instant and sorcery spells.
Opt is a slightly weaker but instant speed Preordain. It's a great early game play that feels wonderful to play when we have Lightning Bolt in our hand but there are no good targets for it.
Ponder needs little introduction and is widely regarded as one of the best card manipulation spells in the format. Ponder helps us smooth our draws and dig for mana fixing or answers. It is especially useful early game.
Preordain is already one of the best cantrips in the format. Being able copy it with Kess, Dissident Mage essentially allows us to Foresee for UU.
Sleight of Hand is another strong cantrip that is tremendously helpful in the beginning of the game by helping us hit our land drops. Late game it helps us dig for answers or win conditions.
Forbidden Alchemy is a Impulse variant that helps us dig for answers while also fueling our graveyard for Kess, Dissident Mage. It's a solid spell on its own, but being able to recast it for 2U instead of 6B makes it incredibly efficient.
Fact or Fiction is one of the most mana efficient card advantage spells in Controlling Dissidents. The choice our opponent has to make becomes incredibly difficult when considering value for Kess, Dissident Mage.
Consecrated Sphinx needs no introduction and is perhaps the most efficient draw engine in the format. While it is a traditional "good stuff" card, with all of the spell slinging in Controlling Dissidents, it is especially powerful. If Consecrated Sphinx goes unanswered, the game is essentially ours.
Sphinx of Uthuun is Fact or Fiction on a respectable body. It is a wonderful addition for any Kess, Dissident Mage deck that will cause just as much agony for our opponents as its instant spell counter part.
Cruel Ultimatum creates card advantage for us while also inflicting card disadvantage against our opponent. The life gain is also nice to have in a deck with 11 lands that cause us to lose life (3 fetches, 3 shocks, 3 pain lands + City of Brass and Mana Confluence). While it is a card advantage spell, it is a major bomb and one of the best targets for Kess, Dissident Mage to recast assuming we have the available mana.
Mass Removal
Maybe the best damage based board wipe in the format.
Whipflare essentially functions as a second copy of Pyroclasm. Redundancy is good here, particularly in token based metas with a high rate of low toughness creatures. The drawback of avoiding nonartifact creatures is hardly relevant.
Anger of the Gods is one of the best damage based board wipes in the format. Due to the higher toughness of Kess, Dissident Mage, we can cast this card while our commander is on the battlefield. It answers everything Pyroclasm answers plus additional creatures and the exile effect is icing on the cake, particularly against graveyard based value decks (i.e. Karador, Ghost Chieftain, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death).
Mizzium Mortars is practically a strictly better Roast. Early game it answers most creatures in the format, late game it's a one sided board wipe.
Radiant Flames usually will function as a less red intense 3 damage board wipe. In rare instances we may want to cast it with only two colors to function as a Pyroclasm if Kess, Dissident Mage was already dealt damage earlier in the turn.
Slagstorm is an Anger of the Gods variant that doesn't exile but has a modal option to Lava Spike each player. We will seldom use this mode, but there are instances where we would choose this option and redirect the damage to a planeswalker.
Toxic Deluge is a very powerful creature board wipe that gets around indestructible and regeneration. The alternate cost of life can be steep at times but it is a drawback that is worth looking past because of the benefits this spell offers.
Cyclonic Rift needs no introduction. It instantly bounces every nonland permanent that isn't ours. Seriously. The fact that it is instant is insane. If cast during the late game it means we can force an opponent to discard a bunch of permanents at their end step. Cyclonic Rift is one of the best cards in the format right now and it can flat out steal games. To make matters better, with Kess, Dissident Mage we can cast it a second time for its Overload cost!
Damnation is an unconditional wrath effect for 2BB. Not much else to say here other than a very strong card for any deck with control elements.
Curse of the Swine is scale based board wipe that exiles creatures. Unfortunately it targets so it can't answer creatures with hexproof or shroud but it answers everything else. Giving our opponents 2/2 tokens is hardly a drawback at all, especially with all of our damage based board wipes we are running like Anger of the Gods and Whipflare.
Chain Lightning frequently functions as a sorcery speed Lightning Bolt, especially against decks that aren't running red. It's a great spot removal spell and when used twice in the same turn with Kess, Dissident Mage is answers nearly everything.
Lightning Bolt needs no introduction. It is widely regarded as the best red spell in the game. It may not be as useful in EDH thanks to higher life totals and bigger creatures but it still is criminally underplayed in the format. Excellent early game to answer mana dorks, but hits most utility creatures and many commanders. Lightning Bolt can also target planeswalkers.
Flame Slash is a one mana Mizzium Mortars. It is a very efficient spot removal and answers most threats that aren't outright bombs.
Fatal Push answers many utility creatures and legends at instant speed even for one mana without Revolt which can be enabled by our fetch lands in our mana base. It is an excellent early game play.
Cut // Ribbons is Flame Slash for 1R. Late game we can cast it from our graveyard to take a significant hit at our opponents' life totals.
Dreadbore functions as unconditional creature or planeswalker removal for two mana. It is an incredibly efficient spell and is one of our best spells to reuse with Kess, Dissident Mage.
Go for the Throat removes the vast majority of creatures regardless of their size (even against artifact based decks) for 1B. It also is an instant speed answer.
Reality Shift is one of the most underrated removal spells in the format. It exiles any creature and the drawback is hardly relevant, especially because an opponent statistically more likely to manifest a land or noncreature spell. Regardless, Controlling Dissidents has no trouble answering 2/2 creature tokens!
Snap is a fantastic tempo spell. It functions as a "free" Unsummon. It allows for plays such as Snap and keeping mana open for Counterspell or Snap into Rakdos Signet. The possibilities are endless. It's also a great spell to recast with Kess, Dissident Mage, because you can gain value from her ability, but still play at the top of your mana curve.
Terminate is perhaps the best nonwhite spot removal spell in the format. Terminate provides instant speed unconditional creature destruction that prevents regeneration for two mana.
Burning Vengeance is a wonderful hidden gem that feels like it was made just for Controlling Dissidents. It allows us to get a free Shock every time we use our commander's ability. This may sound underwhelming at first glance, but it's so much value. It can help keep planeswalkers at bay, remove utility creatures, stack with other burn spells to remove larger creatures and even poke away at our opponents' life totals
Dismember is another very powerful instant speed removal spell. For 1 and 4 life , 1B and 2 life or 1BB we get an instant speed Roast that can hit fliers and creatures with indestructible.
Void Snare is an excellent tempo play that can bounce any nonland permanent. It can bounce a planeswalker the turn before it uses its ultimate ability, bounce a Birds or Paradise on turn 2, bounce a Phyrexian Arena or turn 4 or just clear the path of blockers. Void Snare is a very versatile spell.
Counterspell is Counterspell. Sometimes we don’t need a fancy flashy counter. Instead Counterspell allows us to pay UU to reliably counter any spell. Controlling Dissidents doesn't run a lot of counter magic, but permission based magic is one of our few true answers to enchantment spells.
Countersquall answers noncreature spells which we are often more concerned about because of the large amount of creature removal the deck runs. It's easier to cast than Counterspell and also pings an opponent for 2 life.
Negate functions as a less mana intensive Countersquall. It is an excellent permission spell and can be recast by Kess, Dissident Mage on our turn to protect our combat step.
Capsize is one of the best blue spells in the format. It traditionally functions as a reusable Boomerang for 4UU. With Kess, Dissident Mage, Capsize is even better because we can cast it for 1UU and use Buyback later with our commander's ability!
Vandalblast is a red EDH staple that is arguably the best artifact removal spell in the format. Vandalblast allows us to destroy all artifacts that we don't control for 4R. With Kess, Dissident Mage we can recast it for it's Overload cost, so it's okay to cast it early game to remove a Sol Ring or Lightning Greaves.
Protection
Spellskite is an excellent way to protect Kess, Dissident Mage and our win conditions from spot removal. It also can steal pump spells and auras that voltron oriented decks enjoy to play.
Lightning Greaves needs no introduction. Haste and shroud on an equipment with a converted mana cost of two is very strong. The zero equip cost really seals the deal. Lightning Greaves protects Kess, Dissident Mage. Additionally it gives our major bombs and win conditions a protection and lets them attack the turn they enter the battlefield.
Frost Titan is perhaps the most underrated out of the titan cycle. It can lock down any problematic offensive creature along with pesky lands like Maze of Ith, Eye of Ugin and Dust Bowl. The pseudo hexproof is also nice and often very relevant.
Inferno Titan provides us a free Arc Lightning whenever it enters the battlefield or attacks. What else is there to say? Inferno Titan is incredibly brutal in tandem with Lightning Greaves and is a token deck's worst nightmare. The fire breathing ability is so powerful, if Inferno Titan isn't blocked he can inflict a devastating if not lethal amount of combat damage to an opponent.
Massacre Wurm is creature board wipe that is an Infest on entry. It does a fantastic job at wrecking token strategies along with smaller tribes like goblins and elves and can cause massive life loss for creature based decks.
Noxious Gearhulk is one of the few sources of life gain Controlling Dissidents has to offer. It can unconditionally destroy any creature and also is an evasive beater.
Sire of Stagnation is a very scary alternate Consecrated Sphinx. It has very respectable stats and an ability that make opponents that use fetch lands or ramp spells cringe. Sire of Stagnation will draw us a lot of cards or encourage players to skip their land drops. He is brutal if he enters the field early or mid game but is always relevant.
Wurmcoil Engine is an excellent source of life gain and a resilient threat against destruction effects. Every time it deals combat damage to a player it creates a 12 point life swing. Wurmcoil Engine is one of the most efficient beaters in the format.
Thraximundar is an incredibly aggressive beater that forces the defending player to sacrifice a creature while getting bigger in the process. The haste really helps apply the pressure here by forcing the defending player to answer it or face encounter tremendous consequences. Thraximundar also passive hoses decks with sacrifice sub themes.
Sphinx of Uthuun functions as a Fact or Fiction on a 5/6 flying body. Generally a strong card but with Kess, Dissident Mage this card becomes even more powerful. Card advantage is a midrange control deck's best friend.
Blatant Thievery is a an excellent huge bomb that steals utility lands, win conditions, enchantments or anything else. Incredibly powerful when recurred with Kess, Dissident Mage and very versatile.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker destroys artifacts, enchantments and lands and is able to answer creatures by stealing them! Nicol Bolas protects himself so well and just being able to activate its abilities twice in a single game is incredibly valuable. If is able to achieve his ultimate, the game is practically ours for the taking!
Rite of Replication is an old Commander staple that sees less play than it used to but it still is incredibly powerful. With Kess, Dissident Mage, we can extraordinary value by casting it early game for 2UU to copy something like an Oracle of Mul Daya or Acidic Slime and later cast it for its kicker cost targeting something like Avenger of Zendikar or Inferno Titan. It is an amazing spell that creates tremendous value.
Ramp/Mana Fixing
Sol Ring needs no introduction due to the fact that it is the most played nonlands card in the format.
Dimir Signet is a standard mana work. Good early game play, accelerates and fixes our mana.
Fellwar Stone is a great mana rock. It functions as a mana rock that taps for all of our colors in most multiplayer games. It also comes into play untapped.
Acceleration and Fixing: Piloting a midrange control deck with a three color commander means that having access to all of your colors and being able to play your mana curve is incredibly important. Controlling Dissidents has a great mana base that only includes 11 basic lands. Additionally the deck includes a handful of spells that ramp, mana fix or both. Some of the highlights include Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone and Dimir Signet. (7/10)
Card Advantage: Controlling Dissidents includes several card advantage and card manipulation spells. The deck also includes mana efficient cantrips like Sleight of Hand and Preordain which are very useful when used back to back with Kess, Dissident Mage. Additionally, we run larger spells that generate more significant card advantage like Fact or Fiction or Cruel Ultimatum. Most importantly, Kess Dissident Mage allows us to recast any spell from our graveyard. 10/10
Control: This deck has multiple ways to answer various threats. It should not a surprise that a UBR deck that can recur spells can eliminate threats and keep in the board in check. Spot removal spells verify across the spectrum from Lightning Bolt to Dreadbore. (9/10)
Permission: The deck only runs a small handful of counters but they are some of the best counter spells in the format and are very efficient. Controlling Dissidents doesn't need to run too many counter spells because the deck is so good at controlling opponents in other ways. (5/10)
Mass Removal: Controlling Dissidents runs several spells that can remove multiple creatures including mana efficient damage based board wipes like Slagstorm and Pyroclasm along with larger impacting board wipes that get around indestructible and regeneration (i.e. Cyclonic Rift, Toxic Deluge). The conditional board wipes on creatures like Massacre Wurm are especially powerful because they include additional abilities. (8/10)
Tutoring: Controlling Dissidents doesn't run tutors. No Demonic Tutor, no Fabricate, no Gamble. Personally I feel tutors violate the spirit of a singleton format and with enough card advantage they aren't necessary to win in most metas. The only exception to this rule are fetch lands like Bloodstained Mire. This deck could easily amended to have a very strong tutor package. (1/10)
Archfiend of Depravity is an evasive threat that prevents opponents from going wide. However it seems like it may be potential overkill in a deck with so much removal.
Breath of Darigaaz is a respectable damage based wrath that scales as the game progresses but it doesn't hit Birds of Paradise. It also can deal 4 damage to us which is significant considering the limited number of life gain spells we run.
Sweltering Suns is an alternate choice to Slagstorm if you aren't worried about planeswalkeras as much. The cycling cost is steep but still can be relevant.
Kokusho, the Evening Star is a respectable evasive beater with an excellent "when this creature dies" trigger. However with all of the exile in the format, it seems like a risky card to rely on without sacrifice outlets.
Kraum, Ludevic's Opus is a hasty evasive beater that will draw us extra cards over the course of a game, but its stats are a little underwhelming for 5 mana.
Balefire Dragon gives us a free double Slagstorm if it successfully connects with a player. Unfortunately against metas with flying creatures makes Balefire Dragon an underwhelming 6/6 with flying for 5RR. In a meta with limited flying creatures, it is a very worthwhile addition.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled has underwhelming stats at first glance but gets huge very quickly. Hating on search can be really powerful against many deck type even in towards the mid and late game.
Increasing Vengeance may become a signature card for Kess, Dissident Mage because we can play it from our graveyard without paying the high flashback cost, but it requires an additional spell to be used. Additionally many of our spells we don't want to duplicate.
Fantastic anti-Eldrazi technology.
Slave of Bolas answers any creature while also creating excellent tempo. It is an excellent answer to mythic eldrazi creatures but 5 mana to answer one creature is a little steep.
Swan Song is a great option if you are looking for more permission based magic. A great answer for enchantments and the token it provides the opponent is great fodder for our damage based board wipes.
Serum Visions is a popular cantrip but doesn't dig at all the turn you use it so early game it doesn't help us make necessary land drops.
Windfall and similar wheel effects provide us card advantage and fodder for Kess, Dissident Mage but offering card advantage to our opponents can have negative consequences.
Hymn to Tourach and other discard effects like Duress and Thoughtseize help answer enchantments along with other problems. These cards become much more powerful with Kess, Dissident Mage, for example, paying BBBB to make an opponent essentially discard their hand. Keep in mind that target player discard spells often are frowned upon in multiplayer environments.
Metallurgic Summonings can generate several tokens for us but they have bad synergy with the high rate of damage based board wipes. Additionally, the activated ability is less valuable because Kess, Dissident Mage exiles many of our spells from our graveyard.
Chaos Maw is Slagstorm on a 6/6 body but it seems underwhelming considering it has no additional abilities and cost 5RR.
Torment of Hailfire is a great spell to cast late game to close games out or force opponents that are ahead to make very difficult decisions. It also can be incredibly oppressive if cast again the following turn, however it is very mana intensive to get significant value out of and it gives the opponent multiple options to work around the life loss.
Late game this card will steal games.
Exsanguinate is a classic black win condition that provides life gain but it requires a massive amount of mana to do significant damage.
Time Warp and Time Stretch are excellent spells to recast for obvious reasons if you are interested in running a competitive list instead of a semi competitive list. The same could also be said about Bribery.
Sudden Spoiling is a split second tool that has many uses. We can use it during combat to make trades more favorable, we can use it in response to triggered abilities and perhaps best of all it has synergy with our damaged based board wipes like Pyroclasm. Sudden Spoiling is a criminally underplayed spell but at times can feel niche.
Insurrection is perhaps the most powerful non land destruction mono red spell in the format. The amount of value this spell is able to offer is often absurd. Under the right conditions Insurrection can eliminate players if not flat out win the game. It is an excellent target to Kess, Dissident Mage but has negative synergy in a control deck with numerous removal spells and ways to keep the board cleared.
Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh may not be as good as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, but its +1 ability (exile Mind Rot to each opponent) is devastating. All the other abilities are useful and relevant regardless of the board state. Be aware the plus can miss against blue decks if it hits something like a Counterspell.
Karn Liberated needs little introduction and is obviously an amazing threat. In a pinch we can play him to answer exile threat, not even Mother of Runes can protect what Karn Liberated wants to remove. His plus ability is very strong, not only because it eats at our opponents’ hands but it gives him so much loyalty. We should not reset the game with his ultimate very often, instead, using his plus ability a couple times followed by his minus can ensure he sticks around for long time. Karn Liberated is a great addition to Controlling Dissidents, especially in enchantment heavy metas.
Thank you for taking the time for reading this decklist and analysis. I am open to constructive or complimentary feedback along with any recommendations. Please keep in mind this article is still a work in progress. Changes and additions will be coming in the near future.
How To Play
Coming Soon
Early Game
Mid Game
Late Game
Change Log
August 25, 2017: In: Cut // Ribbons Out: Roast Reason: Both of these cards do similar things, but from testing Roast being unable to remove Atraxa, Praetors' Voice and Atarka, World Render is very significant. From the graveyard Cut // Ribbons is a great late game mana sink that can close out games for us.
September 2, 2017: In: Sudden Spoiling Out: Blatant Thievery Reason: Sudden Spoiling can do some cool things but it feels too cute. A lot of times this card would sit in my hand for too long and when I'd draw it I would seldom be happy to see it. Blatant Thievery gives us an additional answer to problematic enchantments and lands while also answering (and stealing) win conditions.
September 2, 2017: In: Insurrection Out: Dack's Duplicate Reason: Insurrection is very strong but goes against the strategy of keeping the board clear of a lot of creatures. Dack's Duplicate is versatile enough to be a threat, win condition or a utility creature.
September 2, 2017: In: Bojuka Bog Out: Swamp Reason: This was an oversight that should have been in the original. Graveyard hate that is difficult to interact with is good for a control deck to have.
September 2, 2017: In: Wasteland Out: Tectonic Edge Reason: Strictly better upgrade. Nothing else to really say here.
Hi there, thank you for this post - I really like the look of this deck. However I am fairly new to the game and was wondering if you think this deck would be a good investment for me?
Also I only play via MTGO - so commander 2017 set won't be out until November... would is be possible to use this deck list but replacing Kess with say Baral, Chief of Compliance? Or would this just be unplayable? I'm thinking it would help me learn the deck while awaiting the release of Kess.
//Holo
Glad to hear you like the list!
Honestly it's probably not the best deck for a person new to the format or MTG in general.
In the Commander/EDH format, you can only play spells with the color of the legendary creature you are using. So if you used Baral, Chief of Compliance, you wouldn't be able to play with red or black cards. I don't recommend playing a control based commander like Baral, Chief of Compliance for a new player.
You may want to try a more combat oriented legendary creature like Rhonas the Indomitable (see my signature for my list if you are curious).
Thank you for the reply - can't believe I suggested Baral now... I think it was due to me looking at many mono blue decks before posting and then assuming this was one of them!
As for the comment about avoiding control based decks, I do appreciate that but I tend to lose interest quickly in those types of decks. With commander having no rotation I don't mind starting with a more complex deck (within reason).
I don't really want to litter your thread with newbie questions but I would you mind giving a "stop cap" for a commander that would suit this deck? Or do you have any ideas on a deck that uses most of the expensive cards and plays in a similar fashion?
Thanks,
//Holo
If you wanted to play a deck similar to this one with a different commander, I would recommend playing Thraximundar (he is even in the 99 of this deck). He is a great mid range control general within these colors. You could exchange Kess, Dissident Mage with Thraximundar and the deck would still perform well, however because the lack of recasting spells, I would make more room for card draw spells (probably add stuff like Phyrexian Arena, Painful Truths, etc.)
If you are looking for something that is strong, control oriented, but beginner friendly I recommend Oloro, Ageless Ascetic. I have a list in my signature (it's my favorite commander deck I've ever played and I've played dozens) but there are many different ways to play Oloro.
I'm trying to build a non-storm Kess deck myself, so im looking for inspiration anywhere I can get it. Some suggestions.
Maybe Cut is better than Roast? One less power, can get flyers and can be a finisher sitting in the graveyard. It's not like Exsanguinate where it sits in your hand and is bad until you have a bunch of mana
Curtain's Call: I usually play with 3 other people so this always costs 3 for me. Not sure how it would fair in your meta
I'm trying to build a non-storm Kess deck myself, so im looking for inspiration anywhere I can get it. Some suggestions.
Maybe Cut is better than Roast? One less power, can get flyers and can be a finisher sitting in the graveyard. It's not like Exsanguinate where it sits in your hand and is bad until you have a bunch of mana
Curtain's Call: I usually play with 3 other people so this always costs 3 for me. Not sure how it would fair in your meta
I tested Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and didn't like it (even though it is one of my favorite cards). It has negative synergy with all of the damage based board wipes. I also would rather be playing a mana rock or spells like Flame Slash, Pyroclasm, Spellskite or Preordain than Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in the beginning of the game.
I also tested Snapcaster Mage which was better, but it felt like worse than playing Increasing Vengeance which I'm not running at this time.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers is an interesting recommendation and certainly worth testing. He survives the red wraths is great value.
I am still doing some extensive testing this weekend but I have made the first (small) change to the deck list.
August 25, 2017: In: Cut // Ribbons Out: Roast Reason: Both of these cards do similar things, but from testing Roast being unable to remove Atraxa, Praetors' Voice and Atarka, World Render is very significant. From the graveyard Cut // Ribbons is a great late game mana sink that can close out games for us.
Note: This update has also been added to the change log in the first post of the thread.
I am still looking for any feedback on the list. In the coming days I will flesh out the original post with additional options and more. I'll also post reviews additional analysis on how the deck performs as I play more.
Pillage is a tremendously useful spell that has been overperforming. It an excellent spell to have in the graveyard that will strong discourage our opponents to play strong utility lands or artifacts if our opponents see Kess, Dissident Mage on the battlefield or know we have enough mana to cast her and recast Pillage.
Forbidden Alchemy is one of the best spells for Kess, Dissident Mage and significantly overperformed. I was always happy to see it and always happy to recast it. Paying 1 more for Impulse ditch to graveyard doesn't seem like much but it fuels our commander which is a big deal. Being able to recast it for 2U instead of 6B feels so good!
I tested Serum Visions and it was terrible. Every time I played it I wished it was another cantrip. The scrying after feels really awkward, especially if we are digging for an answer but want to shuffle later from a fetch land or something.
The one mana card manipulation spells (Preordain, Ponder, Opt, etc.) were all wonderful and feel really good to recast with Kess, Dissident Mage. Gitaxian Probe for no mana and 4 life to draw 2 cards is a neat trick too!
How about Rags // Riches?Wipe plus the more fun part of expropriate seems good to me, but then again I have a soft spot for stealing spells.
Also with the amount of control you have you could possibly include a couplw of spells that raise creatures from opponents graveyards. Rise of the Dark Realms is the first that comes to mind.
How about Rags // Riches?Wipe plus the more fun part of expropriate seems good to me, but then again I have a soft spot for stealing spells.
Also with the amount of control you have you could possibly include a couplw of spells that raise creatures from opponents graveyards. Rise of the Dark Realms is the first that comes to mind.
I'm happy to hear you like the deck!
Structural Distortion is playable, but I think 4 mana to remove a single artifact is a little steep. The exile is hardly relevant, at least in my meta and I haven't been having trouble paying the double red. I would rather be able to play Pillage for 1RR and use that extra mana to recast something like Flame Slash with Kess, Dissident Mage.
Rags // Riches seems really bad. 4 mana for Infest or 7 mana to gain control of the worst creature each opponent controls. Have fun gaining control of that 3/3 beast token. If you are interested in theft I would recommend Blatant Thievery (and watch out for Homeward Path!).
Rise of the Dark Realms is very strong and a little boring/too good in my opinion. It's a solid finisher for sure though.
Love it! This is also relatively budget if you swap out some of the lands! Most of the core seems really cheap and the expensive stuff like Consecrated Sphinx are frowned upon in my group anyway as it is a bit too overpowered Might make my own list using yours as inspiration, thank you for not just doing the obvious and jamming storm!
Yeah, aside from the mana base and a few exceptions it is fairly budget. So budget in fact that I'm beginning to foil it out (I'm about 75% done)! I also try not to play good stuff or pilot commanders in the way they are supposed to be played. Time Warp extra turn effects are powerful, but it's too "obvious" and overdone. Consecrated Sphinx is really powerful, but I have a foil one sitting around and had to put it somewhere, haha. It also does tremendous work in this deck because even if we have to discard cards, Kess, Dissident Mage can use them later. Pull from Tomorrow is a budget alternative that also works very well with Kess, Dissident Mage.
Please share you list here if you create one, I'd love to see what you come up with!
Definitely picking up some ideas for my deck. I've never played Grixis control before so it's a new playstyle for me and I'd rather not do infinite combo or Doomsday myself either so I like your list!
A couple cards I'm considering that I didn't see here: Abrade for spot removal and Faithless Looting since discarding cards isn't a bad thing with Kess.
Profane Command seems like a house. Finisher, removal that gets around indestructible, and recursion for things like Thrax (the main reason I'm including it).
Casting that new Disrupt Decorum twice might be fun too but I may have to do more aggressive board wipes (Chain Reaction / Blasphemous Act) + Rise of the Dark Realms for my meta, so there may not be enough creatures left to use it. It's probably going into Edgar since it's both funny and taps blockers.
Ha ha sure! I used to have a Japanese Sphinx but traded it off for a bunch of value recently lol. I'm thinking something like Drown in Sorrow
could be tested above Whipflare? Has more targets and can remove the occasional oddball such as Etched Champion or Phyrexian Crusader. Could also be cast twice to kill creatures with swords maybe but at that point I'd rather just run Damnation.
I think Earthquake or any other X sweeper that avoids fliers could have potential as a one of to completely wipe the board whilst keeping Kess alive. The weird version from Conspiracy 2 is worth testing for sure.
Definitely picking up some ideas for my deck. I've never played Grixis control before so it's a new playstyle for me and I'd rather not do infinite combo or Doomsday myself either so I like your list!
A couple cards I'm considering that I didn't see here: Abrade for spot removal and Faithless Looting since discarding cards isn't a bad thing with Kess.
Profane Command seems like a house. Finisher, removal that gets around indestructible, and recursion for things like Thrax (the main reason I'm including it).
Casting that new Disrupt Decorum twice might be fun too but I may have to do more aggressive board wipes (Chain Reaction / Blasphemous Act) + Rise of the Dark Realms for my meta, so there may not be enough creatures left to use it. It's probably going into Edgar since it's both funny and taps blockers.
Definitely picking up some ideas for my deck. I've never played Grixis control before so it's a new playstyle for me and I'd rather not do infinite combo or Doomsday myself either so I like your list!
A couple cards I'm considering that I didn't see here: Abrade for spot removal and Faithless Looting since discarding cards isn't a bad thing with Kess.
Profane Command seems like a house. Finisher, removal that gets around indestructible, and recursion for things like Thrax (the main reason I'm including it).
Casting that new Disrupt Decorum twice might be fun too but I may have to do more aggressive board wipes (Chain Reaction / Blasphemous Act) + Rise of the Dark Realms for my meta, so there may not be enough creatures left to use it. It's probably going into Edgar since it's both funny and taps blockers.
Hmm. Good suggestions I completely forgot about all of the above. I don't think the Goad card fits here but I could be wrong.
Maybe some sac effects like Consuming Vapors could be good enough. Syphon Mind could be worth a shout also, I doubt it's good enough but it's always an option.
If only Crackling Doom was in our colours
I believe Drown in Sorrow is too mana intensive. There are few things Drown in Sorrow answers than Pyroclasm doesn't, and paying one more (plus double black) doesn't seem worth it. Being able to wrath mana dorks on turn 2 feels so good.
Abrade is a great suggestion and I have been meaning to test it and possible replace Cut // Ribbons with it.
I've been trying to stay away from board wipes like Chain Reaction and Blasphemous Act that also destroy Kess, Dissident Mage. They certainly are good though, I'm more fond of board wipes that can scale (i.e. Toxic Deluge, Comet Storm). If I were playing more sweeping board wipes, like SuperSalamander mentioned earlier I would play Damnation.
Earthquake is cute technology not hitting Kess, Dissident Mage, but too many problematic creatures have flying. Additionally, I'm not fond of the damage it deals us.
I tested Yahenni's Expertise and I didn't like it. I either had nothing to play with it for free, or it would be irrelevant (i.e. casting a Dreadbore when all the creatures are already dead). Late game, casting it with Kess, Dissident Mage isn't that great because you are most likely going to have the mana to play a small with a CMC of three or less.
I will review SuperSalamander's list a little later, it looks good though. I don't like Secrets of the Dead. It draws way less cards than something like Rhystic Study or Painful Truths and is only useful when Kess, Dissident Mage is out. I know the same can be said about Burning Venegance, but getting a free Shock when we use Kess, Dissident Mage seems much better than a free Reach Through Mists.
This is a great discussion so far. I'm really glad to hear from other people excited about Kess, Dissident Mage!
I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of some of the sweepers that you're choosing to run. I know that keeping Kess in play seems very important, but maybe it isn't. Why not just play stronger sweepers and wait to cast Kess towards the mid-late game? You could spend your early game just tapping out each turn and playing 1-for-1 filling your graveyard up in the process.
Kess doesn't seem very useful on turn 4. It is weak in combat and you don't play any walkers to protect (Bolas is a BAMF and will protect himself).
How come Brainstorm didn't meet the cut?
Also any considerations for the Djinns (Tidespout Tyrant and Djinn Illuminatus)? On paper, they appear straight psycho with Kess.
I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of some of the sweepers that you're choosing to run. I know that keeping Kess in play seems very important, but maybe it isn't. Why not just play stronger sweepers and wait to cast Kess towards the mid-late game? You could spend your early game just tapping out each turn and playing 1-for-1 filling your graveyard up in the process.
Kess doesn't seem very useful on turn 4. It is weak in combat and you don't play any walkers to protect (Bolas is a BAMF and will protect himself).
How come Brainstorm didn't meet the cut?
Also any considerations for the Djinns (Tidespout Tyrant and Djinn Illuminatus)? On paper, they appear straight psycho with Kess.
Brainstorm isn't very good without shuffle effects. I don't run any tutors, so aside from 3 fetches, I don't really shuffle.
Tidespout Tyrant is an excellent recommendation and seems absurd in this deck. Tidespout Tyrant is considered to oppressive for my general play group, but I would strongly recommend it if your meta is fine with it. Djinn Illuminatus is a card I am unfamiliar with and seems interesting. Perhaps worth testing. The problem is the only spells that seem viable to replicate are smaller ones. Also paying 7 mana for a 3 powered creature feels bad.
OUT- Disturbed Burial - Just sat in my hand and felt clunky Sword of War and Peace - In terms of win cons it felt overkill and 5 mana is a lot of investment for cast and equip when I could be sweeping or blowing things up instead. Sweltering Suns - Most underwhelming of my sweepers, high cycling cost and does the same damage as Radiant Flames but is harder to cast.
This sounds weird, but I am actually considering cutting Vandalblast. Perhaps it's a meta call, but there wasn't one single time I overloaded it. Regardless, even if I were, it just feels mean because frequently it just functions as mana/resource denial. I definitely want to test Abrade or possible Rakdos Charm because I don't really have real graveyard hate. I should probably make room for Bojuka Bog too. Far // Away also seems good, certainly worth testing.
How are you liking Windfall? Also I'm curious about Chaos Warp? In my experience it's just too risky and doesn't seem necessary considering we have blue.
I've been meaning to test Desolate Lighthouse, how has that been working out for you?
I like this list ALOT. Is the main post up to date? I will be building a version of this.
My list (the list in the original post) is up to date, but I'm still testing things and considering how new the commander is, it is by no means final. My list is very similar to SuperSalamander's list, but my list is a little more optimized/less budget friendly.
Feel free to make any recommendations, suggestions or ask any questions about the list.
I believe last time I saw this list, I was commenting on how your win conditions seemed weak.
I was closed minded.
I've been playing Kess on cockatrice since she was loaded into their database. The list started off as mainly a control/spot removal list that peaked by casting a triple copied Exsanguinate. That was too fragile, so I branched out into some Paradox Engine / Aetherflux Reservoir stormishness. That was entirely unsatisfying, as the people I usually play with aren't big on blue combo decks, so not only is the power level imbalanced, it's not really gratifying to win.
What I noticed in playing, however, is that Kess benefits heavily from doing everything she can to remove resources from your opponents. I most often won once I had out-controlled my enemies into top deck mode. At that point, even with just a handful of creatures, I would whittle down the board while keeping everyone out of play. This tells me that there is definitely a way of building her that isn't combo/storm or goodstuff.dec.
I'm going to take ideas from your list and see if I can tweak it into a direction that suites what I'm looking for. I'm also brewing Inalla right now, so I'll have more to share soon.
I believe last time I saw this list, I was commenting on how your win conditions seemed weak.
I was closed minded.
I've been playing Kess on cockatrice since she was loaded into their database. The list started off as mainly a control/spot removal list that peaked by casting a triple copied Exsanguinate. That was too fragile, so I branched out into some Paradox Engine / Aetherflux Reservoir stormishness. That was entirely unsatisfying, as the people I usually play with aren't big on blue combo decks, so not only is the power level imbalanced, it's not really gratifying to win.
What I noticed in playing, however, is that Kess benefits heavily from doing everything she can to remove resources from your opponents. I most often won once I had out-controlled my enemies into top deck mode. At that point, even with just a handful of creatures, I would whittle down the board while keeping everyone out of play. This tells me that there is definitely a way of building her that isn't combo/storm or goodstuff.dec.
I'm going to take ideas from your list and see if I can tweak it into a direction that suites what I'm looking for. I'm also brewing Inalla right now, so I'll have more to share soon.
Be sure to let us know how your deck is performing. Based on my experience, creatures definitely get the job done.
@SuperSalamander Forbidden Orchard seems like a great option for a budget list and I may even run it in my list to mitigate some of the loss of life the pain lands cause.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker can answer enchantments. I know that's just one card, but I feel with the bounce (particularly Capsize), I'm not sure you need of run the risk of running Chaos Warp. Blatant Thievery is another great option that I'm looking at more because Homeward Path, while ubiquitous in many metas, doesn't prevent us from keeping Phyrexian Arena, Asceticism, Maze of Ith, etc. I don't think you need too many answers for enchantments. In multiplayer games, someone else is going to want to answer Asceticism.
I believe last time I saw this list, I was commenting on how your win conditions seemed weak.
I was closed minded.
I've been playing Kess on cockatrice since she was loaded into their database. The list started off as mainly a control/spot removal list that peaked by casting a triple copied Exsanguinate. That was too fragile, so I branched out into some Paradox Engine / Aetherflux Reservoir stormishness. That was entirely unsatisfying, as the people I usually play with aren't big on blue combo decks, so not only is the power level imbalanced, it's not really gratifying to win.
What I noticed in playing, however, is that Kess benefits heavily from doing everything she can to remove resources from your opponents. I most often won once I had out-controlled my enemies into top deck mode. At that point, even with just a handful of creatures, I would whittle down the board while keeping everyone out of play. This tells me that there is definitely a way of building her that isn't combo/storm or goodstuff.dec.
I'm going to take ideas from your list and see if I can tweak it into a direction that suites what I'm looking for. I'm also brewing Inalla right now, so I'll have more to share soon.
Be sure to let us know how your deck is performing. Based on my experience, creatures definitely get the job done.
I believe last time I saw this list, I was commenting on how your win conditions seemed weak.
I was closed minded.
I've been playing Kess on cockatrice since she was loaded into their database. The list started off as mainly a control/spot removal list that peaked by casting a triple copied Exsanguinate. That was too fragile, so I branched out into some Paradox Engine / Aetherflux Reservoir stormishness. That was entirely unsatisfying, as the people I usually play with aren't big on blue combo decks, so not only is the power level imbalanced, it's not really gratifying to win.
What I noticed in playing, however, is that Kess benefits heavily from doing everything she can to remove resources from your opponents. I most often won once I had out-controlled my enemies into top deck mode. At that point, even with just a handful of creatures, I would whittle down the board while keeping everyone out of play. This tells me that there is definitely a way of building her that isn't combo/storm or goodstuff.dec.
I'm going to take ideas from your list and see if I can tweak it into a direction that suites what I'm looking for. I'm also brewing Inalla right now, so I'll have more to share soon.
Be sure to let us know how your deck is performing. Based on my experience, creatures definitely get the job done.
Your list is very different from mine, seems much more creature oriented and less control oriented. What is your game plan? Here are some general recommendations.
Dissipation Field would be an obvious cut in my opinion. It will encourage players to attack you when they have creatures like Terastodon, Massacre Wurm or even a Farhaven Elf. If you wanted a better version of this effect, try No Mercy.
Dramatic Reversal is a card you should consider cutting, particularly because you aren't running that many mana rocks and many of your creatures are small and won't be attacking much.
Turnabout is better than Dramatic Reversal, but still worthy of being cut.
Isochron Scepter doesn't seem good. You basically are paying 4 mana to cast a spell that normally costs 1 or 2 mana. Let's say we pick Lightning Bolt. So 4 mana for Lightning Bolt, and then maybe you can recast Lightning Bolt for 2 mana again. What is more likely to happen is Isochron Scepter will be removed, so you exiled a card to maybe cast it once or twice for a lot of mana.
I'm not a fan of Windfall and Wheel of Fortune effects because they give our opponents massive card advantage and increase the likelihood they draw answers for Kess, Dissident Mage. They could be useful in a Kess reanimator build, but not a list like yours or mine in my opinion.
Your list is very different from mine, seems much more creature oriented and less control oriented. What is your game plan? Here are some general recommendations.
Dissipation Field would be an obvious cut in my opinion. It will encourage players to attack you when they have creatures like Terastodon, Massacre Wurm or even a Farhaven Elf. If you wanted a better version of this effect, try No Mercy.
Dramatic Reversal is a card you should consider cutting, particularly because you aren't running that many mana rocks and many of your creatures are small and won't be attacking much.
Turnabout is better than Dramatic Reversal, but still worthy of being cut.
Isochron Scepter doesn't seem good. You basically are paying 4 mana to cast a spell that normally costs 1 or 2 mana. Let's say we pick Lightning Bolt. So 4 mana for Lightning Bolt, and then maybe you can recast Lightning Bolt for 2 mana again. What is more likely to happen is Isochron Scepter will be removed, so you exiled a card to maybe cast it once or twice for a lot of mana.
I'm not a fan of Windfall and Wheel of Fortune effects because they give our opponents massive card advantage and increase the likelihood they draw answers for Kess, Dissident Mage. They could be useful in a Kess reanimator build, but not a list like yours or mine in my opinion.
Fatespinner usually doesn't stifle much but often bothers players a lot.
35 lands is not enough, especially with a curve has high as yours. You also run 3 lands that produce no colorless mana.
Some good stuff, thank you.
For context, Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal + 3 Nonland mana is infinite mana, as well as infinite tap abilities.
Docent of Perfection is there to capitalize on the token generation of casting lots of spells, which exists as it's own wincon.
Hour of Devestation hits Planeswalkers, and I have an Atraxa in my group.
Agreed on Dissipation Field, I always want to ruin it but it's just a *****tier No Mercy.
Sower is there for the theft effect, but I should try to find a permanent theft instead.
Turnabout + Reiterate is infinite mana at 11 lands in play.
I like to keep a few infinite's handy in case I need to close out a big or grindy or underdog game. I agree that I'm probably running too many creatures, which is a likely gut response to running only 6 prior to rebuilding this deck.
I've been hooked to Kess since they announced her and been working on a controlish/goodstuff list and I'm wondering what you guys think, since I'm kinda new to the EDH/Multiplayer meta.
I'm looking for Rite of Replication, Army of the Damned, Exsanguinate, Increasing Veangeance and Ambition to add and maybe remove the twin package (I'm using it ATM cause I don't have many wincons).
I've been hooked to Kess since they announced her and been working on a controlish/goodstuff list and I'm wondering what you guys think, since I'm kinda new to the EDH/Multiplayer meta.
I'm looking for Rite of Replication, Army of the Damned, Exsanguinate, Increasing Veangeance and Ambition to add and maybe remove the twin package (I'm using it ATM cause I don't have many wincons).
Thank you in advance!
I understand why Pack Rat is in here, but take it out. You should be casting your spells twice, not discarding them to cast later. Replace it with Talrand.
Not a huge fan of Snuff Out compared to Hero's Downfall.
I would replace Thought Scour with something like Brainstorm.
I would replace Disdainful Stroke with Arcane Denial.
You're running a TON of board wipes. I know the OP of this thread is as well, and it's somewhat meta dependent, but you're running a huge amount given other people will always be wiping the board. I would honestly cut ~10 of your sorceries for creatures/artifacts/enchantments/planeswalkers, as a control deck doesn't want to play lots of sorcery speed spells.
Replace Rakdos Signet with Dimir Signet, that way you have Blue in both of your signets. You also have zero utility artifacts, not sure that you need any but something to think about.
Jace, AoT is pretty underwhelming, I'd straight up take him out and replace him with a fat creature, maybe one on the list mentioned by OP as his wincons. Thraximundar isn't expensive.
Introduction
Controlling Dissidents is a semi-competitive UBR EDH deck designed for small multiplayer games but can also perform successfully in duels and larger multiplayer games. The deck is a midrange control decks with an instant and sorcery spells theme. Controlling Dissidents runs several efficient instant and sorcery spells with a converted mana cost of two or less to ensure early control of the board state along with the ability to easily recast spells later in the game with Kess, Dissident Mage. The deck's objective is to control the board in the early and mid game with mana efficient spells like Pyroclasm, Flame Slash, and Reality Shift while maintaining card advantage though the commander. Controlling Dissidents wins the game by overwhelming our opponents with our card advantage to eventually cast powerful spells or creatures towards the end of the game. The deck is powerful and can hold its head in competitive circles but also perform in casual kitchen table games without being too oppressive.
Why Kess?
Deck List
1x Kess, Dissident Mage
Card Advantage (9)
1x Opt
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Sleight of Hand
1x Search for Azcanta
1x Forbidden Alchemy
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Sphinx of Uthuun
1x Cruel Ultimatum
Mass Removal (10)
1x Pyroclasm
1x Whipflare
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Radiant Flames
1x Slagstorm
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Damnation
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Curse of the Swine
Spot Removal (13)
1x Chain Lightning
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Flame Slash
1x Fatal Push
1x Dreadbore
1x Go for the Throat
1x Reality Shift
1x Snap
1x Cut // Ribbons
1x Terminate
1x Burning Vengeance
1x Dismember
1x No Mercy
1x Void Snare
1x Counterspell
1x Countersquall
1x Negate
1x Cosign To Dream
1x Pillage
1x Recoil
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Vandalblast
Protection (2)
1x Spellskite
1x Lightning Greaves
Win Conditions (11)
1x Frost Titan
1x Inferno Titan
1x Massacre Wurm
1x Noxious Gearhulk
1x Sire of Stagnation
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Thraximundar
1x Blatant Thievery
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1x Rite of Replication
Ramp/Mana Fixing (6)
1x Sol Ring
1x Dimir Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
Land (38)
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Crumbling Necropoli
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Exotic Orchard
4x Island
1x Mana Confluence
4x Mountain
1x Path of Ancestry
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Shivan Reef
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Spirebluff Canal
1x Steam Vents
1x Strip Mine
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Sunken Hollow
2x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Underground River
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Watery Grave
Card Analysis
Deck Trait Breakdown
Other Options
Thank you for taking the time for reading this decklist and analysis. I am open to constructive or complimentary feedback along with any recommendations. Please keep in mind this article is still a work in progress. Changes and additions will be coming in the near future.
How To Play
Coming Soon
Change Log
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Glad to hear you like the list!
Honestly it's probably not the best deck for a person new to the format or MTG in general.
In the Commander/EDH format, you can only play spells with the color of the legendary creature you are using. So if you used Baral, Chief of Compliance, you wouldn't be able to play with red or black cards. I don't recommend playing a control based commander like Baral, Chief of Compliance for a new player.
You may want to try a more combat oriented legendary creature like Rhonas the Indomitable (see my signature for my list if you are curious).
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
If you wanted to play a deck similar to this one with a different commander, I would recommend playing Thraximundar (he is even in the 99 of this deck). He is a great mid range control general within these colors. You could exchange Kess, Dissident Mage with Thraximundar and the deck would still perform well, however because the lack of recasting spells, I would make more room for card draw spells (probably add stuff like Phyrexian Arena, Painful Truths, etc.)
If you are looking for something that is strong, control oriented, but beginner friendly I recommend Oloro, Ageless Ascetic. I have a list in my signature (it's my favorite commander deck I've ever played and I've played dozens) but there are many different ways to play Oloro.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Maybe Cut is better than Roast? One less power, can get flyers and can be a finisher sitting in the graveyard. It's not like Exsanguinate where it sits in your hand and is bad until you have a bunch of mana
Curtain's Call: I usually play with 3 other people so this always costs 3 for me. Not sure how it would fair in your meta
Ancient Excavation and Grave Upheaval Can be cycled away for land in the early game and used with Kess later.
Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy Snapcaster Mage: Re use spells when Kess is in the command zone. And probably not as good but Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Curtains' Call is a meta call, but I don't like that it gets worse as the game progresses and opponents are eliminated.
Cut // Ribbons is an excellent suggestion and replacing Roast with it makes sense.
Ancient Excavation and Grave Upheaval seem underwhelming or slow.
I tested Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and didn't like it (even though it is one of my favorite cards). It has negative synergy with all of the damage based board wipes. I also would rather be playing a mana rock or spells like Flame Slash, Pyroclasm, Spellskite or Preordain than Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in the beginning of the game.
I also tested Snapcaster Mage which was better, but it felt like worse than playing Increasing Vengeance which I'm not running at this time.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers is an interesting recommendation and certainly worth testing. He survives the red wraths is great value.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I am still looking for any feedback on the list. In the coming days I will flesh out the original post with additional options and more. I'll also post reviews additional analysis on how the deck performs as I play more.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Kess, Dissident Mage seldom comes into play unless she can use her ability to cast a spell from our graveyard the same turn we play her. The exception to this rule is if we have Spellskite or Lightning Greaves out, but it's usually much better to play Fact or Fiction than cast Kess, Dissident Mage or play Inferno Titan for 6 mana instead of replay Kess, Dissident Mage.
Pillage is a tremendously useful spell that has been overperforming. It an excellent spell to have in the graveyard that will strong discourage our opponents to play strong utility lands or artifacts if our opponents see Kess, Dissident Mage on the battlefield or know we have enough mana to cast her and recast Pillage.
Forbidden Alchemy is one of the best spells for Kess, Dissident Mage and significantly overperformed. I was always happy to see it and always happy to recast it. Paying 1 more for Impulse ditch to graveyard doesn't seem like much but it fuels our commander which is a big deal. Being able to recast it for 2U instead of 6B feels so good!
I tested Serum Visions and it was terrible. Every time I played it I wished it was another cantrip. The scrying after feels really awkward, especially if we are digging for an answer but want to shuffle later from a fetch land or something.
The one mana card manipulation spells (Preordain, Ponder, Opt, etc.) were all wonderful and feel really good to recast with Kess, Dissident Mage. Gitaxian Probe for no mana and 4 life to draw 2 cards is a neat trick too!
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
What are your thoughts on Stuctural Distortion as an improved pillage? Is the one mana difference worth it?
How about Rags // Riches?Wipe plus the more fun part of expropriate seems good to me, but then again I have a soft spot for stealing spells.
Also with the amount of control you have you could possibly include a couplw of spells that raise creatures from opponents graveyards. Rise of the Dark Realms is the first that comes to mind.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
I'm happy to hear you like the deck!
Structural Distortion is playable, but I think 4 mana to remove a single artifact is a little steep. The exile is hardly relevant, at least in my meta and I haven't been having trouble paying the double red. I would rather be able to play Pillage for 1RR and use that extra mana to recast something like Flame Slash with Kess, Dissident Mage.
Rags // Riches seems really bad. 4 mana for Infest or 7 mana to gain control of the worst creature each opponent controls. Have fun gaining control of that 3/3 beast token. If you are interested in theft I would recommend Blatant Thievery (and watch out for Homeward Path!).
Rise of the Dark Realms is very strong and a little boring/too good in my opinion. It's a solid finisher for sure though.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Yeah, aside from the mana base and a few exceptions it is fairly budget. So budget in fact that I'm beginning to foil it out (I'm about 75% done)! I also try not to play good stuff or pilot commanders in the way they are supposed to be played. Time Warp extra turn effects are powerful, but it's too "obvious" and overdone. Consecrated Sphinx is really powerful, but I have a foil one sitting around and had to put it somewhere, haha. It also does tremendous work in this deck because even if we have to discard cards, Kess, Dissident Mage can use them later. Pull from Tomorrow is a budget alternative that also works very well with Kess, Dissident Mage.
Please share you list here if you create one, I'd love to see what you come up with!
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
A couple cards I'm considering that I didn't see here: Abrade for spot removal and Faithless Looting since discarding cards isn't a bad thing with Kess.
Profane Command seems like a house. Finisher, removal that gets around indestructible, and recursion for things like Thrax (the main reason I'm including it).
Casting that new Disrupt Decorum twice might be fun too but I may have to do more aggressive board wipes (Chain Reaction / Blasphemous Act) + Rise of the Dark Realms for my meta, so there may not be enough creatures left to use it. It's probably going into Edgar since it's both funny and taps blockers.
Yahenni's Expertise also seems like it would be great with Kess.
I believe Drown in Sorrow is too mana intensive. There are few things Drown in Sorrow answers than Pyroclasm doesn't, and paying one more (plus double black) doesn't seem worth it. Being able to wrath mana dorks on turn 2 feels so good.
Abrade is a great suggestion and I have been meaning to test it and possible replace Cut // Ribbons with it.
I don't like Faithless Looting because it seems pretty mediocre without Kess, Dissident Mage.
Profane Command seems like a decent bomb but it's very mana intensive especially when trying to get big things like Thraximundar back.
Disrupt Decorum is seems like a lot of fun.
I've been trying to stay away from board wipes like Chain Reaction and Blasphemous Act that also destroy Kess, Dissident Mage. They certainly are good though, I'm more fond of board wipes that can scale (i.e. Toxic Deluge, Comet Storm). If I were playing more sweeping board wipes, like SuperSalamander mentioned earlier I would play Damnation.
Earthquake is cute technology not hitting Kess, Dissident Mage, but too many problematic creatures have flying. Additionally, I'm not fond of the damage it deals us.
I tested Yahenni's Expertise and I didn't like it. I either had nothing to play with it for free, or it would be irrelevant (i.e. casting a Dreadbore when all the creatures are already dead). Late game, casting it with Kess, Dissident Mage isn't that great because you are most likely going to have the mana to play a small with a CMC of three or less.
I will review SuperSalamander's list a little later, it looks good though. I don't like Secrets of the Dead. It draws way less cards than something like Rhystic Study or Painful Truths and is only useful when Kess, Dissident Mage is out. I know the same can be said about Burning Venegance, but getting a free Shock when we use Kess, Dissident Mage seems much better than a free Reach Through Mists.
This is a great discussion so far. I'm really glad to hear from other people excited about Kess, Dissident Mage!
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Kess doesn't seem very useful on turn 4. It is weak in combat and you don't play any walkers to protect (Bolas is a BAMF and will protect himself).
How come Brainstorm didn't meet the cut?
Also any considerations for the Djinns (Tidespout Tyrant and Djinn Illuminatus)? On paper, they appear straight psycho with Kess.
Usually Kess, Dissident Mage isn't useful on turn 4 like you mentioned. But she's very good on turn 5, to recast something like Flame Slash, Fatal Push or Ponder. I don't think the full board wipes are necessary because we have many ways to answer large creatures (Reality Shift, Dreadbore, Terminate, Go For The Throat, etc.)
Brainstorm isn't very good without shuffle effects. I don't run any tutors, so aside from 3 fetches, I don't really shuffle.
Tidespout Tyrant is an excellent recommendation and seems absurd in this deck. Tidespout Tyrant is considered to oppressive for my general play group, but I would strongly recommend it if your meta is fine with it. Djinn Illuminatus is a card I am unfamiliar with and seems interesting. Perhaps worth testing. The problem is the only spells that seem viable to replicate are smaller ones. Also paying 7 mana for a 3 powered creature feels bad.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Just play cantrips to cycle through your deck.
This sounds weird, but I am actually considering cutting Vandalblast. Perhaps it's a meta call, but there wasn't one single time I overloaded it. Regardless, even if I were, it just feels mean because frequently it just functions as mana/resource denial. I definitely want to test Abrade or possible Rakdos Charm because I don't really have real graveyard hate. I should probably make room for Bojuka Bog too. Far // Away also seems good, certainly worth testing.
I tested Sword of Feast and Famine along with Sword of War and Peace and cut them because we don't run enough creatures. If I were to run one, it would be Sword of Feast and Famine. I also agree about Sweltering Suns. 3 is way too much, I never wanted to cycle it. I do run Slagstorm as an emergency answer against planeswalkers in addition to a mini wrath.
As far as your list I like it. Are you running enough creatures where you are getting value out of Disturbed Burial? Also, could be a meta call, but I think Tectonic Edge/Strip Mine is more important than Arcane Lighthouse.
How are you liking Windfall? Also I'm curious about Chaos Warp? In my experience it's just too risky and doesn't seem necessary considering we have blue.
I've been meaning to test Desolate Lighthouse, how has that been working out for you?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
My list (the list in the original post) is up to date, but I'm still testing things and considering how new the commander is, it is by no means final. My list is very similar to SuperSalamander's list, but my list is a little more optimized/less budget friendly.
Feel free to make any recommendations, suggestions or ask any questions about the list.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I was closed minded.
I've been playing Kess on cockatrice since she was loaded into their database. The list started off as mainly a control/spot removal list that peaked by casting a triple copied Exsanguinate. That was too fragile, so I branched out into some Paradox Engine / Aetherflux Reservoir stormishness. That was entirely unsatisfying, as the people I usually play with aren't big on blue combo decks, so not only is the power level imbalanced, it's not really gratifying to win.
What I noticed in playing, however, is that Kess benefits heavily from doing everything she can to remove resources from your opponents. I most often won once I had out-controlled my enemies into top deck mode. At that point, even with just a handful of creatures, I would whittle down the board while keeping everyone out of play. This tells me that there is definitely a way of building her that isn't combo/storm or goodstuff.dec.
I'm going to take ideas from your list and see if I can tweak it into a direction that suites what I'm looking for. I'm also brewing Inalla right now, so I'll have more to share soon.
Padeem, Consul of Innovation - Artifact value/combo.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Sultai zombie reanimator.
Be sure to let us know how your deck is performing. Based on my experience, creatures definitely get the job done.
@SuperSalamander Forbidden Orchard seems like a great option for a budget list and I may even run it in my list to mitigate some of the loss of life the pain lands cause.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker can answer enchantments. I know that's just one card, but I feel with the bounce (particularly Capsize), I'm not sure you need of run the risk of running Chaos Warp. Blatant Thievery is another great option that I'm looking at more because Homeward Path, while ubiquitous in many metas, doesn't prevent us from keeping Phyrexian Arena, Asceticism, Maze of Ith, etc. I don't think you need too many answers for enchantments. In multiplayer games, someone else is going to want to answer Asceticism.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Mind helping me find 6 cuts?
https://deckbox.org/sets/1785571
Padeem, Consul of Innovation - Artifact value/combo.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Sultai zombie reanimator.
Your list is very different from mine, seems much more creature oriented and less control oriented. What is your game plan? Here are some general recommendations.
Dissipation Field would be an obvious cut in my opinion. It will encourage players to attack you when they have creatures like Terastodon, Massacre Wurm or even a Farhaven Elf. If you wanted a better version of this effect, try No Mercy.
Sower of Temptation seems underwhelming. If you wanted a similar effect though, try Treachery or even Control Magic.
Dramatic Reversal is a card you should consider cutting, particularly because you aren't running that many mana rocks and many of your creatures are small and won't be attacking much.
Turnabout is better than Dramatic Reversal, but still worthy of being cut.
Hour of Devastation seems underwhelming for a conditional board wipe. For one more mana you can cast an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. For 1 less, you can play Languish or Damnation.
Isochron Scepter doesn't seem good. You basically are paying 4 mana to cast a spell that normally costs 1 or 2 mana. Let's say we pick Lightning Bolt. So 4 mana for Lightning Bolt, and then maybe you can recast Lightning Bolt for 2 mana again. What is more likely to happen is Isochron Scepter will be removed, so you exiled a card to maybe cast it once or twice for a lot of mana.
I'm not a fan of Windfall and Wheel of Fortune effects because they give our opponents massive card advantage and increase the likelihood they draw answers for Kess, Dissident Mage. They could be useful in a Kess reanimator build, but not a list like yours or mine in my opinion.
Docent of Perfection doesn't seem good here. You run only 9 Wizards plus Kess, Dissident Mage so it seems more difficult to flip into Final Iteration and the bonus matters less.
You have no land removal/destruction except for Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh.
Fatespinner usually doesn't stifle much but often bothers players a lot.
35 lands is not enough, especially with a curve has high as yours. You also run 3 lands that produce no colorless mana.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Some good stuff, thank you.
For context, Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal + 3 Nonland mana is infinite mana, as well as infinite tap abilities.
Docent of Perfection is there to capitalize on the token generation of casting lots of spells, which exists as it's own wincon.
Hour of Devestation hits Planeswalkers, and I have an Atraxa in my group.
Agreed on Dissipation Field, I always want to ruin it but it's just a *****tier No Mercy.
Sower is there for the theft effect, but I should try to find a permanent theft instead.
Turnabout + Reiterate is infinite mana at 11 lands in play.
I like to keep a few infinite's handy in case I need to close out a big or grindy or underdog game. I agree that I'm probably running too many creatures, which is a likely gut response to running only 6 prior to rebuilding this deck.
Padeem, Consul of Innovation - Artifact value/combo.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Sultai zombie reanimator.
I've been hooked to Kess since they announced her and been working on a controlish/goodstuff list and I'm wondering what you guys think, since I'm kinda new to the EDH/Multiplayer meta.
You can find my list here: https://deckbox.org/sets/1784737
I'm looking for Rite of Replication, Army of the Damned, Exsanguinate, Increasing Veangeance and Ambition to add and maybe remove the twin package (I'm using it ATM cause I don't have many wincons).
Thank you in advance!
I understand why Pack Rat is in here, but take it out. You should be casting your spells twice, not discarding them to cast later. Replace it with Talrand.
Not a huge fan of Snuff Out compared to Hero's Downfall.
I would replace Thought Scour with something like Brainstorm.
I would replace Disdainful Stroke with Arcane Denial.
You're running a TON of board wipes. I know the OP of this thread is as well, and it's somewhat meta dependent, but you're running a huge amount given other people will always be wiping the board. I would honestly cut ~10 of your sorceries for creatures/artifacts/enchantments/planeswalkers, as a control deck doesn't want to play lots of sorcery speed spells.
Replace Rakdos Signet with Dimir Signet, that way you have Blue in both of your signets. You also have zero utility artifacts, not sure that you need any but something to think about.
Jace, AoT is pretty underwhelming, I'd straight up take him out and replace him with a fat creature, maybe one on the list mentioned by OP as his wincons. Thraximundar isn't expensive.
Padeem, Consul of Innovation - Artifact value/combo.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Sultai zombie reanimator.