Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith plus Hammer of Nazahn - This was also better than I initially anticipated. I thought the free equip ability on the hammer was good but more of an afterthought, but it is actually the strongest part of having Nazahn as the commander. He essentially reads 4WG7/4 Indestructible, Whenever an equipment enters the battlefield under your control you may equip it to a creature you control. This is really solid for 6 mana.
Blade of Selves - Does very good work with Nazahn. It equips for free when the Hammer is in play so you're essentially paying 2 for it. With it attached to Nazahn, you get 2 equipment to your hand on attack, which again will equip for free when you cast them.
Oreskos Explorer - I was goldfishing so hard to tell for sure, but every time I had this guy I had already ramped quite a bit. I'm guessing there wouldn't have been more than one opponent who had more lands than me if that. Will probably be the one of the first cards on the chopping block.
Alms Collector - I just get the feeling this is a really good card for white. People are constantly drawing extra in EDH and this shuts them down a bit while also drawing cards for you.
I had a really hard time fitting in all the ramp, card draw, and removal I'd normally want in an EDH deck, just for the amount of dedication it requires to have enough equipment and creatures needed. I was able to get in the ramp, enough card draw that it feels pretty good, but feel like I am probably too low on removal. Will need to play some real games with people to know for sure, but I think that's what I am going to have to focus on with changes to the deck.
After a ton of playtesting against air I've made a few adjustments.
Oreskos Explorer - Out for the reasons mentioned above Panharmonicon - Also out, just doesn't seem to be enough ETB's to make it worth while Armory Automaton - The most iffy of the ones I've removed, but I was getting the impression his equip everything ability wasn't that relevant. This is a tough call with no opponents to remove my creatures so may have to reconsider once I start playing against people. Also, there seems to be more than enough creatures and I'm usually holding some in hand as backup in case of a boardwipe. It feels like the best area to be cutting cards from.
Heroic Intervention - My number one concern is a board wipe and I think this is the best counter to that after Teferi's Protection Loxodon Warhammer - I'm really concerned about loading up a guy and just having him get chump blocked so I threw this in as another way to get through the opponenent's defenses. I considered Whispersilk Cloak as well, but I like the +3 power and lifelink. Maybe I should go with Behemoth Sledge? Inspiring Statuary - With so much equipment and artifacts this is a very good ramp card. Equipment still works when tapped so I might as well use them as mana rocks too.
The deck has a ton of gas (at least against air). The games where it stalls out are maybe 1 in 15. There's enough card draw, stuff that tutors when it comes into play, and graveyard recursion that it's constantly generating cards and allows me to build up a very strong board state while also holding stuff back to I just don't lose to a board wipe.
This is a sweet deck! I've been waiting for someone to post their Nazahn deck since he was revealed. I'll post my decklist here soon, so we can compare! Inspiring Statuary is a sweet tech. I thought it was bad at first, but then I realised it can also tap for mana! Value!
Is Darksteel Forge really worth it? I understand that it can help against some corner cases, but I think we would rather be playing more aggressive stuff to try to end the game at that point. I think 9-mana "do nothing" doesn't really cut it.
This is a sweet deck! I've been waiting for someone to post their Nazahn deck since he was revealed. I'll post my decklist here soon, so we can compare! Inspiring Statuary is a sweet tech. I thought it was bad at first, but then I realised it can also tap for mana! Value!
Cool, can't wait to see your list. It feels like no one is brewing this guy at all and I'm not really sure why.
Yeah, I like the statuary. I actually hadn't considered it at all at first, but as I played the deck, I realized how much equipment the deck drops onto the battlefield quickly (especially Bloodforged Battle-Axe)and happened to stumble across Inspiring Statuary in my stack of artifacts at around the same time. Seemed like it might be good.
Is Darksteel Forge really worth it? I understand that it can help against some corner cases, but I think we would rather be playing more aggressive stuff to try to end the game at that point. I think 9-mana "do nothing" doesn't really cut it.
Hmm, I don't know. I think it is. I don't think I'll know for sure until I actually have the physical cards and can play against people. I will say the deck ramps and draws cards very consistently. The 9 mana is easy to get to so it doesn't feel bad casting it. Typically, at that point I've got around 5 equipment, a couple mana rocks, and have a creature suited up to where it'll be killing people in a hit or two. So, in other words, I'm already winning the game. The one thing that could really derail that is a boardwipe and Darksteel Forge helps protect against that. Also, don't forget that Nazahn grabs his hammer, which gives a creature indestructible. Since Darksteel Forge makes the hammer indestructible too, it'll completely invalidate any non-exile, non -1/-1 counters removal. The creatures are also way more expendable than the equipment and easier to replace, so even if I can only protect the equipment that still seems important. I could be completely wrong about it as this is all theoretical at this point, and based on me playing without people destroying my stuff. I'll stick with it for now, but keep an eye on it once I start playing the deck for real.
Kuldotha Forgemaster could pull some weight. Tutor for that forge or any equipments. Yeah, you gotta sac some stuff, but activating him in response to a boardwipe is 100% class.
Things I'd consider for the deck: Vedalken Orrery - Lets you flash in equipment and mess with combat a fair bit in the process. Brass Squire - Fragile but been doing quite well in my Kari Zev equipment focused deck, lets you instantly switch something to a different creature.
Kuldotha Forgemaster could pull some weight. Tutor for that forge or any equipments. Yeah, you gotta sac some stuff, but activating him in response to a boardwipe is 100% class.
That is interesting, especially with the equip at instant speed stuff going on. It is definitely a way to get Darksteel Forge too. I'm not sure there's enough expendable artifacts here though or any artifacts that are good enough that's it's worth it to sacrifice three for one aside from the forge.
Things I'd consider for the deck: Vedalken Orrery - Lets you flash in equipment and mess with combat a fair bit in the process. Brass Squire - Fragile but been doing quite well in my Kari Zev equipment focused deck, lets you instantly switch something to a different creature.
Both easily good cards for the deck.
Vedalken Orrery is a good card all the time and is better than usual here too for the reason you stated. I seriously need to consider this one. I swear, it's a card I start out with in every deck yet always end up cutting it before I get to the final build. I like it here a lot better than Brass Squire. What would you take out for it?
Brass Squire - I considered this guy. There are other cards in the deck that just do it better than him and I don't really know what I would cut and feel good about replacing with him.
Very nice. I actually played a few test hands with the non-budget build since you are on tapped out (I just recently started using tapped out and loving it). Here are my initial impressions:
The 1 mana dorks work super smooth with Skullclamp. They ramp early and then turn into cards later.
Hydra Omnivore - Big fan of this guy as an equipment carrier, very good idea. With a few pieces of equipment on him he's just doing work. Would put a big target on your head but I think that's something this deck is going to do anyway.
Uncage the Menagerie - Was there a certain CMC you were looking at with this. I had it in hand and didn't really see a sweet spot. I cast it for 4 and got Balan and Oketra, but there weren't two other 4 CMC dudes. This could be a cut or maybe need to rework your creatures a bit if you really want it. Thinking you are looking at 2 CMC, honestly that may be fine, there's some powerful creatures for the deck sitting there.
It felt like the deck had too many themes going on at once without enough focus. The token theme sometimes felt awkward with the equipment theme as one is trying to suit up one or two guys and then there are a bunch of tokens being made that aren't working with the equipment and would be better served with something like Parallel Lives or Cathars' Crusade instead. Then there was also a landfall theme going on as well. There were times where I felt like I had cards in different themes and they weren't synergizing at all. Some examples, one game I had Balan as a four drop, but no equipment in play for him, then Nissa the next turn that I just plus 1'd to get closer to her ultimate. Another game I had Masterwork of Ingenuity without any really good equipment cards to target and got a Sigarda's Aid later, but had already cast Nazahn and wasn't getting any more gas for equipment to play. There was also a game where it just went off with the above mentioned 1 drops and Skullclamp, doubling Bloodforged Battle-Axes and casting a Rishkar's Expertise within the first 7 turns. I think you could make the deck more consistent by cutting one of the themes or putting more focus on one of them as a main theme and then toning down the other two. All three seem to be getting somewhat equal focus.
If you do want to go with the token and equipment themes together it could be really fun to run Doubling Season, Parallel Lives, Primal Vigor, Anointed Procession, and Second Harvest. Then plan on doubling your tokens and Bloodforged Battle-Axes too.
[quote from="imdehaven »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/781685-nazahn-revered-bladesmith-equipment-focus-not-cat?comment=6"]Kuldotha Forgemaster could pull some weight. Tutor for that forge or any equipments. Yeah, you gotta sac some stuff, but activating him in response to a boardwipe is 100% class.
That is interesting, especially with the equip at instant speed stuff going on. It is definitely a way to get Darksteel Forge too. I'm not sure there's enough expendable artifacts here though or any artifacts that are good enough that's it's worth it to sacrifice three for one aside from the forge.
Well, 2 artifacts and the Forgemaster is usually what I'd end up sacing. My Meta runs plenty of artifact hate and sweepers and Kuldotha gives a big middle finger to a Vandalblast. If you can run a Crucible of Worlds easy fodder could be Ancient Den, Tree of Tales, and Darksteel Citadel. They also help with metalcraft. Something to consider is Open the Vaults. Also, forgot to mention Leonin Abunas. You get some boots on him and you're golden.
Well, 2 artifacts and the Forgemaster is usually what I'd end up sacing. My Meta runs plenty of artifact hate and sweepers and Kuldotha gives a big middle finger to a Vandalblast. If you can run a Crucible of Worlds easy fodder could be Ancient Den, Tree of Tales, and Darksteel Citadel. They also help with metalcraft. Something to consider is Open the Vaults. Also, forgot to mention Leonin Abunas. You get some boots on him and you're golden.
Ok gotcha. I think it could be worth it just for Darksteel Forge and would be easy to add the artifact lands. You are still paying 5 for the Forgemaster, needing him to survive a turn, which honestly there's a good chance he becomes enemy number one cause he's often used to just fetch some combo and win, then still sacrifice it and two other permanents. I will think about adding it.
Cathars' Crusade works wonder in my Nahiri equipment deck, although that deck also has more token related cards than this one. The only card I'd consider taking out of your deck for it is Qasali Slingers, depending on meta and how you would go in the future.
Cathars' Crusade works wonder in my Nahiri equipment deck, although that deck also has more token related cards than this one. The only card I'd consider taking out of your deck for it is Qasali Slingers, depending on meta and how you would go in the future.
Yep, I think you're probably right there. There's only 7 cats in the deck. Do have access to the commander all the time though so there is that. Thinking that Qasali Slingers and Eldrazi Displacer may be first two on the chopping block. Also, not sure how badly I need Thrun and Sigarda to carry equipment or if I can replace them with more removal.
Yep, I think you're probably right there. There's only 7 cats in the deck. Do have access to the commander all the time though so there is that. Thinking that Qasali Slingers and Eldrazi Displacer may be first two on the chopping block. Also, not sure how badly I need Thrun and Sigarda to carry equipment or if I can replace them with more removal.
What do you think of Oblation, in terms of removal and as an equipment saver? Nahiri can revive equipments from graveyard, Nazahn cannot, he can however fetch for it whenever he enters the play. His Hammer (*cough*) appears to be the center of attention whenever it shows up, and without it Nazahn lost a lot of his power/survival. Oblation saves it while drawing two cards to boot. I also have Mistveil Plains for the same reason.
Umezawa's Jitte is another card I use for my Nahiri, particularly nasty with first/double strikers, and makes combat even more difficult with Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist onboard.
Elspeth, Knight Errant is my other token producing PW. Equipment makes any token dangerous, especially one that could get +3/+3 and flying on call. You don't have to go hardcore token like me, Elspeth is versatile on her own with the buffing and indestructible emblem.
Yep, I think you're probably right there. There's only 7 cats in the deck. Do have access to the commander all the time though so there is that. Thinking that Qasali Slingers and Eldrazi Displacer may be first two on the chopping block. Also, not sure how badly I need Thrun and Sigarda to carry equipment or if I can replace them with more removal.
What do you think of Oblation, in terms of removal and as an equipment saver? Nahiri can revive equipments from graveyard, Nazahn cannot, he can however fetch for it whenever he enters the play. His Hammer (*cough*) appears to be the center of attention whenever it shows up, and without it Nazahn lost a lot of his power/survival. Oblation saves it while drawing two cards to boot. I also have Mistveil Plains for the same reason.
Umezawa's Jitte is another card I use for my Nahiri, particularly nasty with first/double strikers, and makes combat even more difficult with Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist onboard.
Elspeth, Knight Errant is my other token producing PW. Equipment makes any token dangerous, especially one that could get +3/+3 and flying on call. You don't have to go hardcore token like me, Elspeth is versatile on her own with the buffing and indestructible emblem.
Oblation is really interesting just for the level of versatility. Shuffling equipment back into the deck is probably better than going to the graveyard too for the reason you mentioned. Although, not sure the opponent is going to mind too much if you shuffle it or whatever as long as they get rid of it. Can also be used to target something really problematic on the opponent's board or just target your own land or something if you really need to draw cards. It's not especially good at any of those things but the different options may make it worth running.
The Jitte was in my initial package of equipment and ended up getting cut. Could easily replace one of them with it... I actually think Skullclamp may need to go unless I decide to replace some of my non-creature ramp with one drops like Birds of Paradise like TheShrike4 was running. I'm only 21 creatures and the vast majority of them I'm not looking to have die. Think I may need to see how effective it is at getting me cards in actual games. Skullclamp does pay for itself pretty quickly, even when you aren't abusing it with tokens and whatnot.
As far as Elspeth and Kemba, they're definitely good if you're going the token route. I haven't even dipped my toes into any sort of token strat with this build so don't think they're worth it. Kemba maybe though... Just having her be the equipped up creature basically makes the tokens a bonus. Would she be better than something like Thrun, Sigarda, or Balan though? I'm thinking probably not.
Thanks for posting this deck. I started working on my deck of the same theme last night. I like where you started and I think we ended up with a lot of the same ideas.
I'm wondering what you decided in regards to Loxodon Warhammer and Behemoth Sledge. Nazahn grants that second ability which allows you to tap potential blockers. For this reason I will be trying to save slots that grant evasion. I've also considered Akroma's Memorial because mass haste is something I might want, plus it also grants flying and trample so.. ?
Let us know where this deck goes. I can post mine once I get a working list if youre interested.
Thanks for posting this deck. I started working on my deck of the same theme last night. I like where you started and I think we ended up with a lot of the same ideas.
I'm wondering what you decided in regards to Loxodon Warhammer and Behemoth Sledge. Nazahn grants that second ability which allows you to tap potential blockers. For this reason I will be trying to save slots that grant evasion. I've also considered Akroma's Memorial because mass haste is something I might want, plus it also grants flying and trample so.. ?
Let us know where this deck goes. I can post mine once I get a working list if youre interested.
I keep glossing over Nazahn's tap ability when attacking with an equipped creature, thanks for pointing that out. It would be sweet if I could cut Loxodon Warhammer because of that as I have a lot of cards I'd like to fit in. My initial thought is that I am usually equipping up one guy so it may not be effective enough to get past chump blocker options when I'm only tapping down one thing, but hard to tell right now. My cards are in the mail and should be here in a day or two so I'll be able to do some real testing at that point. I'll keep a close I on it.
Akroma's Memorial seems like a good top end finisher and would all but guarantee an equipped up guy will get through for damage.
I would love to see your decklist and any experience you get playing it. I will be posting updates once I can play some actual games and get a better idea of where things stand.
Alright, so just want to get a list of things I'll be looking at when I actually get my cards (looking like Friday) and can do some real testing. A lot of this stuff I already know works like the ramp, but some of these other things just can't be tested without playing games of magic.
Lieutenants - Balan, Wandering Knight, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Thrun, the Last Troll, and to a lesser extent Mirri are all in the deck for the simple purpose of holding equipment and smacking people. I want to know if they are really that valuable or just overkill (the equipment is pretty effective on its own). Balan is an auto-include for sure, but Thrun and Sigarda I'm less positive about. Maybe more stuff like Indomitable Archangel that can hold equipment and have effects that don't just help themselves will be more effective. I'm thinking right now they are good enough and may be juggernauts.
Darksteel Forge - Is it really worth 9 mana? Is there something better that can be thrown down as a finisher and just in the game instead of merely protecting my board? If anyone has some ideas please let me know.
Nazahn's tapping ability - How effective is it at getting creature's through unblocked? I'm pretty concerned about chump blockers right now but do have 3 of the Sword of's, Loxodon Warhammer, and Nim Deathmantle, not to mention multiple creatures with evasion plus the tap ability to help get through.
Removal - Very concerned that I don't have enough removal right now. I realized Wrath of God was probably actually worse than Day of Judgment because I am running Yavimaya Hollow and Thrun that want to be regenerating. I actually switched it out for Dusk // Dawn instead though due to the low power of most of my creatures. It does seem like I should be using more board wipes because of Hammer of Nazahn and the other indestructibility stuff I have.
Ok, tested 3 games against a somewhat tweaked Edgar Markov vampire deck I built to play against my weaker playgroup. Here's how the games went:
Game 1 - Qasali Slingers was really good, killing 3 enchantments/artifacts. I think it needs to stay in the deck. Balan, Wandering Knight won the game with a 36 damage swing. Knew she was good already, but confirmed. Day of Judgment plus Hammer of Nazahn cleared the board to open it up for the killing blow.
Game 2 - Kept an opening hand with no creatures and didn't draw any. Got Nazahn out on turn 5 thanks to Temple of the False God. I know people don't like this land but it is almost a guarantee in this deck that I'll hit my land drops and have it active. Unfortunately, Nazahn on turn 5 was too little too late. Just shows the delicate balance between having creatures, equipment, and other utility stuff like card draw, ramp and removal. Losing to early agro is much less likely in a multiplayer game so not too concerned.
Game 3 - A turn 2 Sram, Senior Edificer netted about 6 cards throughout the game. The deck started strong but chump blocking tokens became a huge issue. Was able to get one hit in with a suited up Nazahn with a Sword of Light and Shadow for 11 damage and make a second Bloodforged Battle-Axe, but the vampire deck was able to stabilize from there after exiling the sword and cast enough vampires to keep chump blocking. If I would have drawn any card draw I should've been able to close it out pretty quickly, but just wasn't hitting on it at all. Had Nahiri, the Lithomancer late and she was basically worthless, just making tokens. All the indestructibility and hexproof made my suited up creatures unkillable and kept the deck in the game. Eventually was able to get enough creaures suited up to have Nazahn's tap ability open up the game and out-attrition the other deck. Definitely thinking the Loxodon Warhammer needs to stay in the deck right now though. I could have won the game much sooner if I had it. Also, if I had a board wipe I could have ended the game at any time.
If you are cutting Nahiri for not being impactful enough at 5 mana, you can see why I was against adding Darksteel forge, that effectively does nothing at 9 mana.
I agree that adding more board clears seems to be the way to go. I don't really want to go full voltron, but having 2-3 creatures with some evasion seems like a good strategy for now.
However, I'm still interested in why you cut nahiri, she has been very useful for me in the mid-late game.
If you are cutting Nahiri for not being impactful enough at 5 mana, you can see why I was against adding Darksteel forge, that effectively does nothing at 9 mana.
I agree that adding more board clears seems to be the way to go. I don't really want to go full voltron, but having 2-3 creatures with some evasion seems like a good strategy for now.
However, I'm still interested in why you cut nahiri, she has been very useful for me in the mid-late game.
I am still on the fence with Darksteel Forge. I totally understand what you are saying (and appreciate your input) with it doing nothing and costing a whopping 9 mana and that is a concern for sure, especially the 9 mana. But, I'm also terrified of Vandalblast, Austere Command, Aura Shards, and other similar cards. Things that can destroy artifacts, at least from what I have seen, are the number one threat to being able to play the deck. The forge shuts almost all that stuff off completely aside from Merciless Eviction, which is basically a trump card against the deck from what I can tell. The effect is worth having, just not sure at the 9 mana.
As far as Nahiri goes, she only has one relevant ability really, unless you have Skullclamp out. I never need her +2 for a 1/1, much less want to equip anything to a 1/1 token. The -2 gets an equipment from your hand or graveyard and puts it into play. Which is basically just the graveyard because if you have an equipment in your hand it's cheaper to just cast it. Plus, you have to have a target. The ultimate you will never get of course. I think if the +2 was more relevant I'd want to run it more.
With the new Serra Ascendant reprint, I think I will add it to my deck, along with Ranger of Eos and Mother of Runes. It gives us more turn 1 plays, and then Ranger of Eos will have at least 4 targets with those 2, Birds of Paradise, and Avacyn's Pilgrim!
With the new Serra Ascendant reprint, I think I will add it to my deck, along with Ranger of Eos and Mother of Runes. It gives us more turn 1 plays, and then Ranger of Eos will have at least 4 targets with those 2, Birds of Paradise, and Avacyn's Pilgrim!
Love it. I have been taking out spell ramp and changing in 1 toughness mana dorks like birds and wood elves to increase the drawing potential of skullclamp. Was going to post about it but Destiny 2 is consuming my life right now. The ranger addition is sweet.
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6 Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
Artifacts
6 Argentum Armor
5 Batterskull
2 Blade of Selves
1 Bloodforged Battle-Axe
9 Darksteel Forge
3 Darksteel Plate
4 Grafted Exoskeleton
4 Hammer of Nazahn
3 Inspiring Statuary
3 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
3 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Lightning Greaves
0 Mana Crypt
2 Mask of Memory
0 Mox Opal
2 Nim Deathmantle
3 Selesnya Cluestone
2 Selesnya Signet
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Swiftfoot Boots
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sword of the Animist
Instants
2 Heroic Intervention
3 Krosan Grip
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Teferi's Protection
4 Alms Collector
5 Arahbo, Roar of the World
8 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
4 Balan, Wandering Knight
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Eternal Witness
4 Indomitable Archangel
2 Leonin Shikari
3 Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
2 Puresteel Paladin
2 Qasali Pridemage
5 Qasali Slingers
5 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Soltari Visionary
2 Sram, Senior Edificer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
5 Stonehewer Giant
6 Sun Titan
4 Taj-Nar Swordsmith
4 Thrun, the Last Troll
Sorceries
3 Cultivate
4 Day of Judgment
4 Dusk // Dawn
3 Kodama's Reach
6 Rishkar's Expertise
6 Seasons Past
5 Traverse the Outlands
5 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Enchantments
3 Aura Shards
5 Mirari's Wake
1 Sigarda's Aid
7 Zendikar Resurgent
Lands
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Buried Ruin
1 Canopy Vista
1 Command Beacon
10 Forest
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Homeward Path
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Krosan Verge
10 Plains
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Scattered Groves
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of the False God
1 Windswept Heath
1 Yavimaya Hollow
I did a bunch of goldfishing and here are my thoughts so far:
Bloodforged Battle-Axe - This card is way better than I initially thought it would be. It can get out of hand very quickly, especially with things that cheat equip costs like Puresteel Paladin, Balan, Wandering Knight, Hammer of Nazahn, Sigarda's Aid, and Armory Automaton. The card draw with Puresteel Paladin and free equipping was extra good.
Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith plus Hammer of Nazahn - This was also better than I initially anticipated. I thought the free equip ability on the hammer was good but more of an afterthought, but it is actually the strongest part of having Nazahn as the commander. He essentially reads 4WG 7/4 Indestructible, Whenever an equipment enters the battlefield under your control you may equip it to a creature you control. This is really solid for 6 mana.
Blade of Selves - Does very good work with Nazahn. It equips for free when the Hammer is in play so you're essentially paying 2 for it. With it attached to Nazahn, you get 2 equipment to your hand on attack, which again will equip for free when you cast them.
If left unchecked the deck reaches critical mass very quickly, topping things off with Darksteel Forge or Avacyn, Angel of Hope. Traverse the Outlands, Rishkar's Expertise, Mirari's Wake, Zendikar Resurgent, and Garruk, Primal Hunter will just blow things open. It can be pretty mana hungry, but if you have the mana you can just start going bonkers.
Oreskos Explorer - I was goldfishing so hard to tell for sure, but every time I had this guy I had already ramped quite a bit. I'm guessing there wouldn't have been more than one opponent who had more lands than me if that. Will probably be the one of the first cards on the chopping block.
Alms Collector - I just get the feeling this is a really good card for white. People are constantly drawing extra in EDH and this shuts them down a bit while also drawing cards for you.
I had a really hard time fitting in all the ramp, card draw, and removal I'd normally want in an EDH deck, just for the amount of dedication it requires to have enough equipment and creatures needed. I was able to get in the ramp, enough card draw that it feels pretty good, but feel like I am probably too low on removal. Will need to play some real games with people to know for sure, but I think that's what I am going to have to focus on with changes to the deck.
Oreskos Explorer - Out for the reasons mentioned above
Panharmonicon - Also out, just doesn't seem to be enough ETB's to make it worth while
Armory Automaton - The most iffy of the ones I've removed, but I was getting the impression his equip everything ability wasn't that relevant. This is a tough call with no opponents to remove my creatures so may have to reconsider once I start playing against people. Also, there seems to be more than enough creatures and I'm usually holding some in hand as backup in case of a boardwipe. It feels like the best area to be cutting cards from.
Heroic Intervention - My number one concern is a board wipe and I think this is the best counter to that after Teferi's Protection
Loxodon Warhammer - I'm really concerned about loading up a guy and just having him get chump blocked so I threw this in as another way to get through the opponenent's defenses. I considered Whispersilk Cloak as well, but I like the +3 power and lifelink. Maybe I should go with Behemoth Sledge?
Inspiring Statuary - With so much equipment and artifacts this is a very good ramp card. Equipment still works when tapped so I might as well use them as mana rocks too.
The deck has a ton of gas (at least against air). The games where it stalls out are maybe 1 in 15. There's enough card draw, stuff that tutors when it comes into play, and graveyard recursion that it's constantly generating cards and allows me to build up a very strong board state while also holding stuff back to I just don't lose to a board wipe.
Is Darksteel Forge really worth it? I understand that it can help against some corner cases, but I think we would rather be playing more aggressive stuff to try to end the game at that point. I think 9-mana "do nothing" doesn't really cut it.
Cool, can't wait to see your list. It feels like no one is brewing this guy at all and I'm not really sure why.
Yeah, I like the statuary. I actually hadn't considered it at all at first, but as I played the deck, I realized how much equipment the deck drops onto the battlefield quickly (especially Bloodforged Battle-Axe)and happened to stumble across Inspiring Statuary in my stack of artifacts at around the same time. Seemed like it might be good.
Hmm, I don't know. I think it is. I don't think I'll know for sure until I actually have the physical cards and can play against people. I will say the deck ramps and draws cards very consistently. The 9 mana is easy to get to so it doesn't feel bad casting it. Typically, at that point I've got around 5 equipment, a couple mana rocks, and have a creature suited up to where it'll be killing people in a hit or two. So, in other words, I'm already winning the game. The one thing that could really derail that is a boardwipe and Darksteel Forge helps protect against that. Also, don't forget that Nazahn grabs his hammer, which gives a creature indestructible. Since Darksteel Forge makes the hammer indestructible too, it'll completely invalidate any non-exile, non -1/-1 counters removal. The creatures are also way more expendable than the equipment and easier to replace, so even if I can only protect the equipment that still seems important. I could be completely wrong about it as this is all theoretical at this point, and based on me playing without people destroying my stuff. I'll stick with it for now, but keep an eye on it once I start playing the deck for real.
Current build (need to find a spot for Conqueror's Flail and the new Mirri): http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nazahn-10/
And a budget version ($150 Max set by my playgroup): http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nazahn-budget-10/
Let me know what you think!
Vedalken Orrery - Lets you flash in equipment and mess with combat a fair bit in the process.
Brass Squire - Fragile but been doing quite well in my Kari Zev equipment focused deck, lets you instantly switch something to a different creature.
That is interesting, especially with the equip at instant speed stuff going on. It is definitely a way to get Darksteel Forge too. I'm not sure there's enough expendable artifacts here though or any artifacts that are good enough that's it's worth it to sacrifice three for one aside from the forge.
Both easily good cards for the deck.
Vedalken Orrery is a good card all the time and is better than usual here too for the reason you stated. I seriously need to consider this one. I swear, it's a card I start out with in every deck yet always end up cutting it before I get to the final build. I like it here a lot better than Brass Squire. What would you take out for it?
Brass Squire - I considered this guy. There are other cards in the deck that just do it better than him and I don't really know what I would cut and feel good about replacing with him.
Very nice. I actually played a few test hands with the non-budget build since you are on tapped out (I just recently started using tapped out and loving it). Here are my initial impressions:
The 1 mana dorks work super smooth with Skullclamp. They ramp early and then turn into cards later.
Hydra Omnivore - Big fan of this guy as an equipment carrier, very good idea. With a few pieces of equipment on him he's just doing work. Would put a big target on your head but I think that's something this deck is going to do anyway.
Uncage the Menagerie - Was there a certain CMC you were looking at with this. I had it in hand and didn't really see a sweet spot. I cast it for 4 and got Balan and Oketra, but there weren't two other 4 CMC dudes. This could be a cut or maybe need to rework your creatures a bit if you really want it. Thinking you are looking at 2 CMC, honestly that may be fine, there's some powerful creatures for the deck sitting there.
It felt like the deck had too many themes going on at once without enough focus. The token theme sometimes felt awkward with the equipment theme as one is trying to suit up one or two guys and then there are a bunch of tokens being made that aren't working with the equipment and would be better served with something like Parallel Lives or Cathars' Crusade instead. Then there was also a landfall theme going on as well. There were times where I felt like I had cards in different themes and they weren't synergizing at all. Some examples, one game I had Balan as a four drop, but no equipment in play for him, then Nissa the next turn that I just plus 1'd to get closer to her ultimate. Another game I had Masterwork of Ingenuity without any really good equipment cards to target and got a Sigarda's Aid later, but had already cast Nazahn and wasn't getting any more gas for equipment to play. There was also a game where it just went off with the above mentioned 1 drops and Skullclamp, doubling Bloodforged Battle-Axes and casting a Rishkar's Expertise within the first 7 turns. I think you could make the deck more consistent by cutting one of the themes or putting more focus on one of them as a main theme and then toning down the other two. All three seem to be getting somewhat equal focus.
If you do want to go with the token and equipment themes together it could be really fun to run Doubling Season, Parallel Lives, Primal Vigor, Anointed Procession, and Second Harvest. Then plan on doubling your tokens and Bloodforged Battle-Axes too.
Here's my tapped out link if you interested.
That is interesting, especially with the equip at instant speed stuff going on. It is definitely a way to get Darksteel Forge too. I'm not sure there's enough expendable artifacts here though or any artifacts that are good enough that's it's worth it to sacrifice three for one aside from the forge.
Well, 2 artifacts and the Forgemaster is usually what I'd end up sacing. My Meta runs plenty of artifact hate and sweepers and Kuldotha gives a big middle finger to a Vandalblast. If you can run a Crucible of Worlds easy fodder could be Ancient Den, Tree of Tales, and Darksteel Citadel. They also help with metalcraft. Something to consider is Open the Vaults. Also, forgot to mention Leonin Abunas. You get some boots on him and you're golden.
Ok gotcha. I think it could be worth it just for Darksteel Forge and would be easy to add the artifact lands. You are still paying 5 for the Forgemaster, needing him to survive a turn, which honestly there's a good chance he becomes enemy number one cause he's often used to just fetch some combo and win, then still sacrifice it and two other permanents. I will think about adding it.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Yep, I think you're probably right there. There's only 7 cats in the deck. Do have access to the commander all the time though so there is that. Thinking that Qasali Slingers and Eldrazi Displacer may be first two on the chopping block. Also, not sure how badly I need Thrun and Sigarda to carry equipment or if I can replace them with more removal.
What do you think of Oblation, in terms of removal and as an equipment saver? Nahiri can revive equipments from graveyard, Nazahn cannot, he can however fetch for it whenever he enters the play. His Hammer (*cough*) appears to be the center of attention whenever it shows up, and without it Nazahn lost a lot of his power/survival. Oblation saves it while drawing two cards to boot. I also have Mistveil Plains for the same reason.
Umezawa's Jitte is another card I use for my Nahiri, particularly nasty with first/double strikers, and makes combat even more difficult with Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist onboard.
Elspeth, Knight Errant is my other token producing PW. Equipment makes any token dangerous, especially one that could get +3/+3 and flying on call. You don't have to go hardcore token like me, Elspeth is versatile on her own with the buffing and indestructible emblem.
In terms of extra cats, perhaps Kemba, Kha Regent? Works with Qasali Slingers if you wish to keep it.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Oblation is really interesting just for the level of versatility. Shuffling equipment back into the deck is probably better than going to the graveyard too for the reason you mentioned. Although, not sure the opponent is going to mind too much if you shuffle it or whatever as long as they get rid of it. Can also be used to target something really problematic on the opponent's board or just target your own land or something if you really need to draw cards. It's not especially good at any of those things but the different options may make it worth running.
The Jitte was in my initial package of equipment and ended up getting cut. Could easily replace one of them with it... I actually think Skullclamp may need to go unless I decide to replace some of my non-creature ramp with one drops like Birds of Paradise like TheShrike4 was running. I'm only 21 creatures and the vast majority of them I'm not looking to have die. Think I may need to see how effective it is at getting me cards in actual games. Skullclamp does pay for itself pretty quickly, even when you aren't abusing it with tokens and whatnot.
As far as Elspeth and Kemba, they're definitely good if you're going the token route. I haven't even dipped my toes into any sort of token strat with this build so don't think they're worth it. Kemba maybe though... Just having her be the equipped up creature basically makes the tokens a bonus. Would she be better than something like Thrun, Sigarda, or Balan though? I'm thinking probably not.
I'm wondering what you decided in regards to Loxodon Warhammer and Behemoth Sledge. Nazahn grants that second ability which allows you to tap potential blockers. For this reason I will be trying to save slots that grant evasion. I've also considered Akroma's Memorial because mass haste is something I might want, plus it also grants flying and trample so.. ?
Let us know where this deck goes. I can post mine once I get a working list if youre interested.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I keep glossing over Nazahn's tap ability when attacking with an equipped creature, thanks for pointing that out. It would be sweet if I could cut Loxodon Warhammer because of that as I have a lot of cards I'd like to fit in. My initial thought is that I am usually equipping up one guy so it may not be effective enough to get past chump blocker options when I'm only tapping down one thing, but hard to tell right now. My cards are in the mail and should be here in a day or two so I'll be able to do some real testing at that point. I'll keep a close I on it.
Akroma's Memorial seems like a good top end finisher and would all but guarantee an equipped up guy will get through for damage.
I would love to see your decklist and any experience you get playing it. I will be posting updates once I can play some actual games and get a better idea of where things stand.
Lieutenants - Balan, Wandering Knight, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Thrun, the Last Troll, and to a lesser extent Mirri are all in the deck for the simple purpose of holding equipment and smacking people. I want to know if they are really that valuable or just overkill (the equipment is pretty effective on its own). Balan is an auto-include for sure, but Thrun and Sigarda I'm less positive about. Maybe more stuff like Indomitable Archangel that can hold equipment and have effects that don't just help themselves will be more effective. I'm thinking right now they are good enough and may be juggernauts.
Darksteel Forge - Is it really worth 9 mana? Is there something better that can be thrown down as a finisher and just in the game instead of merely protecting my board? If anyone has some ideas please let me know.
Nazahn's tapping ability - How effective is it at getting creature's through unblocked? I'm pretty concerned about chump blockers right now but do have 3 of the Sword of's, Loxodon Warhammer, and Nim Deathmantle, not to mention multiple creatures with evasion plus the tap ability to help get through.
Removal - Very concerned that I don't have enough removal right now. I realized Wrath of God was probably actually worse than Day of Judgment because I am running Yavimaya Hollow and Thrun that want to be regenerating. I actually switched it out for Dusk // Dawn instead though due to the low power of most of my creatures. It does seem like I should be using more board wipes because of Hammer of Nazahn and the other indestructibility stuff I have.
Cards I'm considering - Vedalken Orrery, Day of Judgment, Austere Command, Captain Sisay, Umezawa's Jitte, Open the Vaults, or whatever else can plug holes I identify.
Game 1 - Qasali Slingers was really good, killing 3 enchantments/artifacts. I think it needs to stay in the deck. Balan, Wandering Knight won the game with a 36 damage swing. Knew she was good already, but confirmed. Day of Judgment plus Hammer of Nazahn cleared the board to open it up for the killing blow.
Game 2 - Kept an opening hand with no creatures and didn't draw any. Got Nazahn out on turn 5 thanks to Temple of the False God. I know people don't like this land but it is almost a guarantee in this deck that I'll hit my land drops and have it active. Unfortunately, Nazahn on turn 5 was too little too late. Just shows the delicate balance between having creatures, equipment, and other utility stuff like card draw, ramp and removal. Losing to early agro is much less likely in a multiplayer game so not too concerned.
Game 3 - A turn 2 Sram, Senior Edificer netted about 6 cards throughout the game. The deck started strong but chump blocking tokens became a huge issue. Was able to get one hit in with a suited up Nazahn with a Sword of Light and Shadow for 11 damage and make a second Bloodforged Battle-Axe, but the vampire deck was able to stabilize from there after exiling the sword and cast enough vampires to keep chump blocking. If I would have drawn any card draw I should've been able to close it out pretty quickly, but just wasn't hitting on it at all. Had Nahiri, the Lithomancer late and she was basically worthless, just making tokens. All the indestructibility and hexproof made my suited up creatures unkillable and kept the deck in the game. Eventually was able to get enough creaures suited up to have Nazahn's tap ability open up the game and out-attrition the other deck. Definitely thinking the Loxodon Warhammer needs to stay in the deck right now though. I could have won the game much sooner if I had it. Also, if I had a board wipe I could have ended the game at any time.
Changes made after the games:
Out - Nahiri, the Lithomancer
In - Day of Judgment
I agree that adding more board clears seems to be the way to go. I don't really want to go full voltron, but having 2-3 creatures with some evasion seems like a good strategy for now.
However, I'm still interested in why you cut nahiri, she has been very useful for me in the mid-late game.
I am still on the fence with Darksteel Forge. I totally understand what you are saying (and appreciate your input) with it doing nothing and costing a whopping 9 mana and that is a concern for sure, especially the 9 mana. But, I'm also terrified of Vandalblast, Austere Command, Aura Shards, and other similar cards. Things that can destroy artifacts, at least from what I have seen, are the number one threat to being able to play the deck. The forge shuts almost all that stuff off completely aside from Merciless Eviction, which is basically a trump card against the deck from what I can tell. The effect is worth having, just not sure at the 9 mana.
As far as Nahiri goes, she only has one relevant ability really, unless you have Skullclamp out. I never need her +2 for a 1/1, much less want to equip anything to a 1/1 token. The -2 gets an equipment from your hand or graveyard and puts it into play. Which is basically just the graveyard because if you have an equipment in your hand it's cheaper to just cast it. Plus, you have to have a target. The ultimate you will never get of course. I think if the +2 was more relevant I'd want to run it more.
That's perfect. Forgot about this card. Everything else I looked at only protected creatures. Might replace Darksteel Forge with it.
Love it. I have been taking out spell ramp and changing in 1 toughness mana dorks like birds and wood elves to increase the drawing potential of skullclamp. Was going to post about it but Destiny 2 is consuming my life right now. The ranger addition is sweet.