I've spent the last couple of days brewing around the recently spoiled Edgar Markov. While not great by any means, Markov is in my opinion the most vampire-centric commander available. His eminence is what inspired the following deck list which remains casual and somewhat budget friendly.
The deck is almost entirely mono black while splashing white for answers to deal with non-creature permanents, i.e. enchantments and artifacts. And while adding red gives access to cards like Vandalblast and Olivia, I don't believe that it's worth murking up the mana base for a few select cards that don't really add anything substantial. As you've probably guessed by now, I don't plan on casting Markov either. He doesn't add much to the field with no natural evasion or protection and a conditional boost that will most likely be short-lived since he is bound to eat removal sooner rather than later. His true strength stems from his eminence ability which can be triggered from the command zone. There is no point to wasting resources on casting him.
Keep in mind that this is a tribal theme deck and vampires don't lend themselves very well to competitive metas. However, Edgar Markov does enable or speed up a few vampire abilities. The strongest of these being Bloodline Keeper and Captivating Vampire. The tokens produced by Edgar Markov can also be used to fuel Attrition or to power up a Malakir Bloodwitch.
That being said, vampires do bring an interesting toolbox to the table. Kalitas, Dark Impostor and Patron of the Vein can remove and exile threats, Blood Artist, Noble and Highborn could play the aristocrats game while Nocturnus and Regent beat face.
However, I think Edgar is best used in a super linear go-wide strategy with late-game mana sinks and theft effects. Even in some games on cockatrice, my opponents are dead on turn 6/7 just after Edgar hits play.
The ability to get a free body for doing something that you already want to be doing is absurd. He essentially doubles all of your vampires- its a free Krenko activation!
If that doesn't work, you can have a super solid attrition game with the Grave Pact effects combined with cards like Vicious Shadows and all of the Vampires that allow you to sacrifice tokens. This "Aristocrat" style late game gives you an aggro deck with a very potent early game and a very potent late game.
Shout out to Dark Prophecy, as this card does not say "non-token", so you can very quickly churn out more and more fodder to grow your army even bigger.
I totally agree with you there. Going wide is what we want. I just don't know if running vanilla 1-2 drops is where we want to be though. I could see adding Gifted Aetherbon, Vampire Nighthawk and maybe Vampire Interloper as another cheap flyer but what else is there?
Shared Animosity is a real thing and I almost went Dega solely for this card but that would require a much more expensive mana base and also consistently hitting your drops while curving into Animosity. I'm a bit reluctant.
What would you recommend for this list in terms of adds and cuts and would you be willing to post your list?
I don't like Athreos here all that much. I would play Oversold Cemetery and Oath of Ghouls over it. Minions' Murmurs is another thing that might work very well with all the free tokens. Your list looks very similar to what I brew
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU UBW Sen Triplets WBU WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW GWR Mayael the Anima RWG RWB Edgar Markov BWR WG Gaddok Teeg GW W Oketra the True W
--- My Decklist Folder
Now clearly this list is not the most optimized, (lacking the presence of the black tutors, presence of some pet cards) but the deck overall is very synergistic and fast, which makes it powerful.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm still working on the manabase, and trying to find room for Cathars' Crusade
@Mir13: Oversold Cemetery was on my shortlist. It will probably find a way in once I up the number of creatures.
@HardCasting: I like that creature count and definitely think it's the way to go with Edgar. I'm still on the fence with regards to adding red into the mix although I think you cherry picked some of the best red cards for what the deck is trying to do. Breath of Fury is a fantastic addition.
My version has a few more answers though and I would recommend running at least Vindicate, Anguished Unmaking and Harsh Mercy.
I'll update my list by adding more creatures but I still don't think running red is worth it in my version mostly because there is a very heavy slant towards black with some cards having up to BBB in their casting cost. For those who can afford the mana base, Shared Animosity and Mana Echoes, then splashing red makes sense.
My theory is that I'll acquire a good mana base for it eventually, recognizing I'll get screwed the first few times I play the deck. I do think I should probably run more answers, but that's more of a playgroup meta call, where my playgroup is the type where games last to turn 20 with 25 mana type games. Because the other decks are do durdly, I can afford to go lighter on the spot removal and focus on hyper aggro.
I also strongly urge you to consider Voldaren Pariah and Mirror Entity
What is your budget? There is coffers in there and they are pretty pricey! If it is within the means, you should replace the magus with Nirkana Revenant. Surprised it's not there.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU UBW Sen Triplets WBU WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW GWR Mayael the Anima RWG RWB Edgar Markov BWR WG Gaddok Teeg GW W Oketra the True W
--- My Decklist Folder
Some of the pricier cards on the list I happen to already own.
Splashing red might happen eventually assuming the deck is fun enough and performs well. In the meantime, I'll be posting an updated list later tonight.
Your suggestions have really helped and the deck already runs smoother while goldfishing.
Lists that are looking to make most out of Edgar should be aiming for around 40 creatures. That's when the token generation really starts to shine.
List had been updated. I've added more creatures and found a spot for Sadistic Hypnotist. We can expect it to do a lot of work in here given the expendable bodies that Edgar produces.
I also added Season of the Witch. It forces people to play the aggro game and opens up their defences for our vampiric army.
Space is tight but I'm trying to find a slot for Urge to Feed or Obelisk of Urd.
How did x-spells work out for you? I am worried that all aggro can stall out and get propaganda or moat-ed. I am seriously considering liliana of the dark realms. Deck should gum up the board well and protect her to threaten ultimate.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU UBW Sen Triplets WBU WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW GWR Mayael the Anima RWG RWB Edgar Markov BWR WG Gaddok Teeg GW W Oketra the True W
--- My Decklist Folder
@Tetza: Thanks for the suggestions but, as mentioned earlier, I'm sticking to mono black with a white splash. This is mostly done for budget reasons but also because, while Shared Animosity is awesome, I don't feel that red has enough to offer to justify messing with the mana base.
@Mir13: Thanks again! Season of the Witch should be fun. I haven't yet drawn into Exsanguinate or Ashnod's Altar for that matter. I'm starting to wonder if they're worth the include.
Propaganda and/or Moat would definitely suck but that's why Vindicate and Anguished Unmaking are vital.
I am not entirely convinced with Exsanguinate in here either. I think we might be better off running a couple more answers to deal with whatever is slowing us down.
Having said that, we can rebuild awfully fast after a boardwipe and we can grind a few match ups with Attrition and Sadistic Hypnotist but we're definitely aggro. We're not built for the long game.
Changes: Replacing Vish Kaal with Crescendo of War.
If the only tutor you’re running is Beseech the Queen, then I would not consider Exsanguinate as reliable, or even Cabal Coffers mana in the first place. But if you do get around to it, I find Debt to the Deathless better because X will almost always be greater than 4 with Exsanguinate.
It still interests me that you’re going without Red. I would honestly try with Red and without to see which you like better. Sometimes nothing is better than being straightforward, but having a general is like +1 card a lot of the time, and his attack ability seems worthwhile to me.
Also, I’m of two minds about whether to go with a creature count at 40+, or use a strategy that involves more recursion to hand with cards like Oversold Cemetery, Tortured Existence and Hazoret’s Monument. I see that they can both reliably trigger Eminence every turn after about Turn 3, but the creature-heavy version can more consistently get one on Turns 1 and 2. The recursion model is more consistent at getting multiple triggers later on though. Not sure.
Some other cards I’m surprised not to see:
Stoneforge Mystic – Because Skullclamp is all the draw you need with this general, this one and other equip tutors seem great. Herald’s Horn – Lots of draw and good mana production, seems great here. Cryptic Gateway – Nice card for a build that always has vampires in hand, and the ability to flash in blockers is a nice deterrent. Mirror Entity – A pretty huge pump effect on a Vampire.
If you want to be extra gross and feel like you're cheating... try Reconnaissance. This card allows you to be hyper agressive and attack all-out while avoiding any unfavorable blocks (this is the 'fair' use).
This card also allows you to untap any first stike vampires like Edgar Markov or Drana, Liberator of Malakir after first strike damage is dealt but before normal combat damage is dealt for pseudo vigilance (handy for getting +1+1 counters from Drana to your whole team)... obviously busted with Stromkirk Captain as it allows you to untap ALL your creatures AFTER they've done their damage without your guys taking a single point of damage themselves.
It still interests me that you’re going without Red. I would honestly try with Red and without to see which you like better. Sometimes nothing is better than being straightforward, but having a general is like +1 card a lot of the time, and his attack ability seems worthwhile to me.
He's likely avoiding R for budgetary concerns. He mentions that what he likes about the desk is it's pretty budget friendly, but I'm also making this assumption because he is missing blatantly powerful Black spells such as Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, etc. Splashing in a single color on a budget is pretty easy, as he has already done. You can run some pretty budget dual lands and still end up with a deck that, albeit slow, might be "competitive" within a casual context. Going three color or up creates inconsistency in your manabase that, unless you don't mind being significantly slower than your opponents, requires an investment into the manabase.
I think it's a pretty innovative idea. If all that he has an interest in with Edgar Markov is using him as a token generator that he doesn't have to pay for, he can pretty easily ignore that Edgar allows him to play R. I do agree with you, however, that he is short-changing himself by not using the Commander to it's fullest potential.
The deck is almost entirely mono black while splashing white for answers to deal with non-creature permanents, i.e. enchantments and artifacts. And while adding red gives access to cards like Vandalblast and Olivia, I don't believe that it's worth murking up the mana base for a few select cards that don't really add anything substantial. As you've probably guessed by now, I don't plan on casting Markov either. He doesn't add much to the field with no natural evasion or protection and a conditional boost that will most likely be short-lived since he is bound to eat removal sooner rather than later. His true strength stems from his eminence ability which can be triggered from the command zone. There is no point to wasting resources on casting him.
I will give you this, a lot of the R splashing does add options that you more or less already have access to. Rakish Heir, Olivia Voldaran, Shared Animosity, even Mana Echoes have abilities you can essentially get access to within Black already. However, EDH is a redundancy format, especially in a multiplayer setting. You need to have some measure of redundancy because at least one of your opponents is likely to be interacting with the board. That's partly where the R steps in. Shared Animosity creates a smaller, cheaper Coat of Arms. Mana Echoes is a better Black Market, Stromkirk Captain and Rakish Heir both create more lords for you to play. Depending on how big your budget is and if Aggro is your win con, even Aggravated Assault is worth looking into the R splash for.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I feel that you are grossly underestimating the value in Edgar Markov within a multiplayer context. The Eminence commanders are effectively mana sinks. You are right that you aren't really suppose to go out of your way to cast them, the real perk is getting a free anthem effect just for choosing them. The role that they are meant to fill, as creatures anyway, is that of a mana sink. Casting Edgar Markov is essentially going to cost you absolutely nothing once you've gone into the late game. If you are playing within a casual context, you are likely to end up with 6 mana just laying around anyway. Even within a more competitive environment, multiplayer games can take a while. If you cast Edgar and they wish to waste removal on him, it's hardly of any consequence to you. His prices goes up, but he ends up right back in the Command Zone and ready for Eminence to kick in. Of course, if you were running Mana Echoes, the Commander tax would be a pretty moot point in many cases anyway.
Speaking of hate, I'm going to venture a guess that many opponents are going to be a little reluctant to waste spot on Edgar Markov. Adding +1/+1 counters is an ability replicated in many of the other options within the tribe's arsenal. Throwing away spot on a creature that already does something many of the other creatures, with no evasion mind you, is particularly wasteful in my opinion. I think the concern there might be a bit inflated. If your opponent does throw some spot his way, oh well. He goes right back to making tokens until you want to cast him again.
TL;DR: Edgar Markov is a win more/mana sink with the added bonus of effectively being immune from truly being removed from play. You are only going to cast him when it wouldn't punish you to spend the 3RBW anyway and doing so only makes your position stronger. If you need to keep your deck budget, I do agree that you are better off in Orzhov than Mardu. In terms of gameplay, however, you'd still be better off in Mardu. Staying in Orzhov means sacrificing redundancy, options, and Mana Echoes; an enchantment that will effectively erase the colorless symbols in every single one of your spells for as long as you keep putting vampires into play.
@Jusstice: Some great suggestions! Much appreciated. You guys finally convinced me to add Mirror Entity. It's not a "real" vampire so I tried to avoid it but since I won't be running Shared Animosity, ME is a great global pump on a stick that also triggers Markov's eminence ability.
I've also went ahead and cut Exsanguinate. Since I am not running a real tutor suite, chances of pushing out a fatal drain are slim. Having said that, it might make it's way back into the deck if I ever acquire a copy of Nirkana Revenant.
Herald's Horn is in since it pretty much acts as another copy of Phyrexian Arena and more steady card draw is good in this build. The cost reduction, while not a huge boon, is a nice bonus.
The thing I found by running more 1 and 2 drops is that it gives you the ability to curve into Captivating Vampire or Bloodline Keeper. This means you can start stealing creatures or swinging with a fat army really early and can potentially steal games against unprepared opponents.
Going the recursion route could work but I had a hard time making the most of Markov while running with fewer creatures. My current recursion package includes Oversold Cemetery, Immortal Servitude and Athreos, God of Passage. Bloodline Necromancer is also probably going to find a way into the deck. Just need to mind the curve.
@TheDeathMessage: Thanks for the reply, man. I think you get where I'm coming from the most. The deck is pseudo budget so I can splash a few 10-15$ cards here and there but adding red would be costly especially since that there are the only two reasons to go red in my mind: Mana Echoes and Shared Animosity. Rakdos Charm would be another card I would splash but ultimately red brings absolutely nothing to the deck.
I have found Crescendo of War to be my Shared Animosity substitute. It gives other players incentive to attack into each other while you sit back behind your army of buffed tokens after it comes into play. Then swing in with impunity on our following turn with an army 5/1 vampire tokens.
Honestly, what else is there? Even Vandalblast could be subbed for the more versatile Merciless Eviction if you're looking to include that effect.
Extra attack phases would be another tool that red brings to the table but again ultimately I do not believe is the worth the include as most of these come with a RR in their cost and the deck, at it's core, is very B intensive. Running Mardu may work for you but I have my doubts, regardless of budget.
I do agree with you with regard to redundancy but there are still a few tools available to me in Orzhov or even Artifacts if I wanted more copies of a certain effect. I don't have access to the mana generation that Mana Echoes provides but my average cc is pretty low to the ground. Again, what most people seem to miss while brewing Edgar is that black vampires have up to BBB in their mana cost which makes colorless mana significantly less useful unless you're running X spells or heavy mana sinks. If anything, Black Market would be better in some aspects.
You are right about my opinion on actually casting Edgar. I underestimated his presence on the board. I'm in the midst of remedying that by adding a few red sources in the mana base but they will be added solely for the possibility of casting Edgar and not for splashing random red cards into the actual deck.
My small list of red mana sources so far. I am considering the signets as well.
Stromkirk Captain, Boros Charm, and Rakish Heir are worth going into red for as well. I also run both Olivias and Falkenrath Aristocrat. Shared Animosity as you mentioned is worth it but Mana Echoes is meh here unless you have good manasinks as it otherwise causes you to dump your hand too quick and overextend.
Boros Charm is good for sure but I am not too concerned with wipes since we can rebuild twice as fast with Edgar. Free token producers from the command zone are strong. The surprise double strike is cool though. The red lords are fine too but here's what I run:
I honestly think it's enough but I do realize that some of these are conditional and not necessarily true lords. They do have their pros and cons though.
I already run Crovax the Cursed as my pet card. Mirri is one pet card too many.
Mirri doesn't do much other than beat face. Meanwhile, Irini Sengir costs the same and hates on Green and White enchantments, which are fairly common in EDH. She's also a Vampire Dwarf.
True, Irini is a bit of a non-bo with Crescendo of War but let's face it. It probably hurts our opponents more than it does our deck.
As nice as it would be to run Black Market, the problem with Black Market is two-fold. First, it costs 3BB. By Turn 5, I'm looking for either A). something that applies pressure to the board to start closing out the game or B). the big creatures. It appears you, like many, favor the swarm build and that's great, but it's effectively just an Aggro deck. The longer the game goes on, the easier it is for my opponent to drop Cyclonic Rift, Wrath of God, Damnation, or insert any other mass removal threat. I'm fine with Turn 5 enchantments, but I'd argue they need to extend the bottomline here. Cathars' Crusade is a great choice, for example.
Second, Black Market is a bit counterproductive to the Swarm build. Many of the brewers here have the right idea that it's okay to create a pseudo-sacrifice engine with that version. Having stuff like Grave Pact or Dictate of Erebos in play while you use natural sac, such as Viscera Seer, Yahenni, or Indulgent, creates an insane amount of card advantage for you real fast. Black Market encourages an overextension into sacrifice that I feel is simply not synergistic here. Compare that to Mana Echoes, where I am rewarded with 1 for every vampire in play every single time I do what comes naturally to the deck, play creatures. It's ridiculously easy to have 4 or 6 vampires in play with the Swarm build. Casting a vampire, in that scenario, means you get 4 or 6 for just the vampire you've now cast. Your token then comes into play to generate even more value with an additional 5 or 7. With that level of mana, you only need an additional RBB to both damage a creature and steal it in one turn with Olivia Voldaren.
Effectively, what you've created is an Urza's Incubator on steroids. Not only have you eliminated the colorless requirements of every spell in your entire deck, you've also wiped out the colorless requirements of every activated ability your vampires possess for one phase. That's an insane amount of value to be generating just from doing what comes naturally to the deck and it's value that Urza's Incubator, an artifact that comes up consistently in these brews, cannot generate. To the extent that Mana Echoes is worse is that it's really a momentum card and Urza is a static card. The only way you keep getting that value is if you keep consistently dropping vampires. If you are running less than 25 creatures, like the Aristocrats variant, you are much better off excluding it.
If creating an exorbitant amount of B is what you are looking for, Nykthos is the best option anyway. There are so many B, BB, and BBB among the most common permanent options in these decks that I think Nykthos becomes a potent weapon quickly. It also plays to your strategy of swarm, as it just gets stronger with each permanent sharing at least one B. From the perspective of your colored permanents, you are essentially running a black devotion deck with a few outliers.
With all of that being said, I'm not entirely sold on Mana Echoes exclusively because my own enchantment slots, of which I have 10 total, is rather packed. The only flex spot that I really have is between Cathars' Crusade and Mana Echoes, with Cathars' Crusade being one of our best options at recovering from board wipe.
I've spent the last couple of days brewing around the recently spoiled Edgar Markov. While not great by any means, Markov is in my opinion the most vampire-centric commander available. His eminence is what inspired the following deck list which remains casual and somewhat budget friendly.
The deck is almost entirely mono black while splashing white for answers to deal with non-creature permanents, i.e. enchantments and artifacts. And while adding red gives access to cards like Vandalblast and Olivia, I don't believe that it's worth murking up the mana base for a few select cards that don't really add anything substantial. As you've probably guessed by now, I don't plan on casting Markov either. He doesn't add much to the field with no natural evasion or protection and a conditional boost that will most likely be short-lived since he is bound to eat removal sooner rather than later. His true strength stems from his eminence ability which can be triggered from the command zone. There is no point to wasting resources on casting him.
Keep in mind that this is a tribal theme deck and vampires don't lend themselves very well to competitive metas. However, Edgar Markov does enable or speed up a few vampire abilities. The strongest of these being Bloodline Keeper and Captivating Vampire. The tokens produced by Edgar Markov can also be used to fuel Attrition or to power up a Malakir Bloodwitch.
That being said, vampires do bring an interesting toolbox to the table. Kalitas, Dark Impostor and Patron of the Vein can remove and exile threats, Blood Artist, Noble and Highborn could play the aristocrats game while Nocturnus and Regent beat face.
Here's the list:
01 Viscera Seer
01 Indulgent Aristocrat
01 Shadow Alley Denizen
02 Stromkirk Condemned
02 Vampire Hexmage
02 Vampire Interloper
02 Bloodcrazed Paladin
02 Gifted Aetherborn
02 Zulaport Cutthroat
02 Asylum Visitor
02 Blood Artist
02 Blood Seeker
02 Bloodthrone Vampire
02 Kalastria Highborn
02 Olivia's Bloodsworn
03 Mirror Entity
03 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
03 Pawn of Ulamog
03 Dark Impostor
03 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
03 Captivating Vampire
03 Athreos, God of Passage
03 Bloodflow Connoisseur
03 Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
03 Vampire Nighthawk
04 Sangromancer
04 Vampire Nocturnus
04 Bloodline Keeper
04 Crovax the Cursed
04 Crypt Ghast
04 Falkenrath Noble
04 Irini Sengir
04 Sanctum Seeker
05 Malakir Bloodwitch
05 Sadistic Hypnotist
05 Voldaren Pariah
06 Necropolis Regent
06 Patron of the Vein
00 Bojuka Bog
00 Caves of Koilos
00 Command Tower
00 Concealed Courtyard
00 Exotic Orchard
00 Forsaken Sanctuary
00 Godless Shrine
00 Isolated Chapel
00 Nomad Outpost
00 Graven Cairns
00 Mana Confluence
00 Path of Ancestry
00 Reflecting Pool
00 Scoured Barrens
00 Sulfurous Springs
15 Swamp
00 Tainted Field
00 Tainted Peak
00 Temple of Silence
00 Unclaimed Territory
00 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
00 Vault of the Archangel
Artifact (4)
01 Skullclamp
01 Sol Ring
02 Orzhov Signet
02 Boros Signet
Planeswalker (1)
04 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Sorcery (6)
02 Night's Whisper
02 Sign in Blood
03 Vindicate
03 Beseech the Queen
03 Harsh Mercy
03 Immortal Servitude
01 Legion's Landing
01 Vampiric Rites
03 Phyrexian Arena
03 Season of the Witch
03 Attrition
03 Dark Prophecy
04 Crescendo of War
05 Campaign of Vengeance
05 Cathars' Crusade
Instant (4)
01 Swords to Plowshares
03 Sudden Spoiling
03 Anguished Unmaking
04 Settle The Wreckage
However, I think Edgar is best used in a super linear go-wide strategy with late-game mana sinks and theft effects. Even in some games on cockatrice, my opponents are dead on turn 6/7 just after Edgar hits play.
The ability to get a free body for doing something that you already want to be doing is absurd. He essentially doubles all of your vampires- its a free Krenko activation!
To make the most of this, play lots of one-drops and two-drops into Shared Animosity, Necropolis Regent, and Coat of Arms effects for quick deaths.
If that doesn't work, you can have a super solid attrition game with the Grave Pact effects combined with cards like Vicious Shadows and all of the Vampires that allow you to sacrifice tokens. This "Aristocrat" style late game gives you an aggro deck with a very potent early game and a very potent late game.
Shout out to Dark Prophecy, as this card does not say "non-token", so you can very quickly churn out more and more fodder to grow your army even bigger.
Another shout out to Mana Echoes
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
Shared Animosity is a real thing and I almost went Dega solely for this card but that would require a much more expensive mana base and also consistently hitting your drops while curving into Animosity. I'm a bit reluctant.
What would you recommend for this list in terms of adds and cuts and would you be willing to post your list?
-1x Bad Moon
+1x Coat of Arms
UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU
UBW Sen Triplets WBU
WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW
WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW
GWR Mayael the Anima RWG
RWB Edgar Markov BWR
WG Gaddok Teeg GW
W Oketra the True W
---
My Decklist Folder
1x Blood Artist
1x Bloodghast
1x Bloodline Keeper
1x Bloodline Necromancer
1x Bloodthrone Vampire
1x Butcher of Malakir
1x Captivating Vampire
1x Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1x Driver of the Dead
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Falkenrath Exterminator
1x Falkenrath Gorger
1x Falkenrath Noble
1x Gatekeeper of Malakir
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Incorrigible Youths
1x Indulgent Aristocrat
1x Insolent Neonate
1x Kalastria Highborn
1x Malakir Bloodwitch
1x Mathas, Fiend Seeker
1x Mirror Entity
1x Necropolis Regent
1x Olivia, Mobilized for War
1x Olivia Voldaren
1x Olivia's Bloodsworn
1x Olivia's Dragoon
1x Patron of the Vein
1x Pawn of Ulamog
1x Rakish Heir
1x Shadow Alley Denizen
1x Stromkirk Captain
1x Stromkirk Condemned
1x Stromkirk Noble
1x Vampire Aristocrat
1x Vampire Nocturnus
1x Viscera Seer
1x Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1x Voldaren Pariah
1x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1x Zulaport Cutthroat
1x Breath of Fury
1x Dark Prophecy
1x Dictate of Erebos
1x Grave Pact
1x Mana Echoes
1x Shared Animosity
1x Vicious Shadows
Land (38)
36x Command Tower
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Path of Ancestry
Instant (1)
1x Crib Swap
Sorcery (5)
1x Blood Tribute
1x Feast of Blood
1x Kindred Charge
1x New Blood
1x Patriarch's Bidding
Artifact (5)
1x Boros Signet
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Coat of Arms
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
Now clearly this list is not the most optimized, (lacking the presence of the black tutors, presence of some pet cards) but the deck overall is very synergistic and fast, which makes it powerful.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm still working on the manabase, and trying to find room for Cathars' Crusade
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
@HardCasting: I like that creature count and definitely think it's the way to go with Edgar. I'm still on the fence with regards to adding red into the mix although I think you cherry picked some of the best red cards for what the deck is trying to do. Breath of Fury is a fantastic addition.
My version has a few more answers though and I would recommend running at least Vindicate, Anguished Unmaking and Harsh Mercy.
I'll update my list by adding more creatures but I still don't think running red is worth it in my version mostly because there is a very heavy slant towards black with some cards having up to BBB in their casting cost. For those who can afford the mana base, Shared Animosity and Mana Echoes, then splashing red makes sense.
I also strongly urge you to consider Voldaren Pariah and Mirror Entity
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU
UBW Sen Triplets WBU
WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW
WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW
GWR Mayael the Anima RWG
RWB Edgar Markov BWR
WG Gaddok Teeg GW
W Oketra the True W
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My Decklist Folder
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
Splashing red might happen eventually assuming the deck is fun enough and performs well. In the meantime, I'll be posting an updated list later tonight.
Your suggestions have really helped and the deck already runs smoother while goldfishing.
Lists that are looking to make most out of Edgar should be aiming for around 40 creatures. That's when the token generation really starts to shine.
I also added Season of the Witch. It forces people to play the aggro game and opens up their defences for our vampiric army.
Space is tight but I'm trying to find a slot for Urge to Feed or Obelisk of Urd.
Season of the witch is very cheeky. I love it!
UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU
UBW Sen Triplets WBU
WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW
WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW
GWR Mayael the Anima RWG
RWB Edgar Markov BWR
WG Gaddok Teeg GW
W Oketra the True W
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My Decklist Folder
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
@Mir13: Thanks again! Season of the Witch should be fun. I haven't yet drawn into Exsanguinate or Ashnod's Altar for that matter. I'm starting to wonder if they're worth the include.
Propaganda and/or Moat would definitely suck but that's why Vindicate and Anguished Unmaking are vital.
I am not entirely convinced with Exsanguinate in here either. I think we might be better off running a couple more answers to deal with whatever is slowing us down.
Having said that, we can rebuild awfully fast after a boardwipe and we can grind a few match ups with Attrition and Sadistic Hypnotist but we're definitely aggro. We're not built for the long game.
Changes: Replacing Vish Kaal with Crescendo of War.
Note that Crescendo triggers during every upkeep
It still interests me that you’re going without Red. I would honestly try with Red and without to see which you like better. Sometimes nothing is better than being straightforward, but having a general is like +1 card a lot of the time, and his attack ability seems worthwhile to me.
Also, I’m of two minds about whether to go with a creature count at 40+, or use a strategy that involves more recursion to hand with cards like Oversold Cemetery, Tortured Existence and Hazoret’s Monument. I see that they can both reliably trigger Eminence every turn after about Turn 3, but the creature-heavy version can more consistently get one on Turns 1 and 2. The recursion model is more consistent at getting multiple triggers later on though. Not sure.
Some other cards I’m surprised not to see:
Stoneforge Mystic – Because Skullclamp is all the draw you need with this general, this one and other equip tutors seem great.
Herald’s Horn – Lots of draw and good mana production, seems great here.
Cryptic Gateway – Nice card for a build that always has vampires in hand, and the ability to flash in blockers is a nice deterrent.
Mirror Entity – A pretty huge pump effect on a Vampire.
This card also allows you to untap any first stike vampires like Edgar Markov or Drana, Liberator of Malakir after first strike damage is dealt but before normal combat damage is dealt for pseudo vigilance (handy for getting +1+1 counters from Drana to your whole team)... obviously busted with Stromkirk Captain as it allows you to untap ALL your creatures AFTER they've done their damage without your guys taking a single point of damage themselves.
He's likely avoiding R for budgetary concerns. He mentions that what he likes about the desk is it's pretty budget friendly, but I'm also making this assumption because he is missing blatantly powerful Black spells such as Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, etc. Splashing in a single color on a budget is pretty easy, as he has already done. You can run some pretty budget dual lands and still end up with a deck that, albeit slow, might be "competitive" within a casual context. Going three color or up creates inconsistency in your manabase that, unless you don't mind being significantly slower than your opponents, requires an investment into the manabase.
I think it's a pretty innovative idea. If all that he has an interest in with Edgar Markov is using him as a token generator that he doesn't have to pay for, he can pretty easily ignore that Edgar allows him to play R. I do agree with you, however, that he is short-changing himself by not using the Commander to it's fullest potential.
I will give you this, a lot of the R splashing does add options that you more or less already have access to. Rakish Heir, Olivia Voldaran, Shared Animosity, even Mana Echoes have abilities you can essentially get access to within Black already. However, EDH is a redundancy format, especially in a multiplayer setting. You need to have some measure of redundancy because at least one of your opponents is likely to be interacting with the board. That's partly where the R steps in. Shared Animosity creates a smaller, cheaper Coat of Arms. Mana Echoes is a better Black Market, Stromkirk Captain and Rakish Heir both create more lords for you to play. Depending on how big your budget is and if Aggro is your win con, even Aggravated Assault is worth looking into the R splash for.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I feel that you are grossly underestimating the value in Edgar Markov within a multiplayer context. The Eminence commanders are effectively mana sinks. You are right that you aren't really suppose to go out of your way to cast them, the real perk is getting a free anthem effect just for choosing them. The role that they are meant to fill, as creatures anyway, is that of a mana sink. Casting Edgar Markov is essentially going to cost you absolutely nothing once you've gone into the late game. If you are playing within a casual context, you are likely to end up with 6 mana just laying around anyway. Even within a more competitive environment, multiplayer games can take a while. If you cast Edgar and they wish to waste removal on him, it's hardly of any consequence to you. His prices goes up, but he ends up right back in the Command Zone and ready for Eminence to kick in. Of course, if you were running Mana Echoes, the Commander tax would be a pretty moot point in many cases anyway.
Speaking of hate, I'm going to venture a guess that many opponents are going to be a little reluctant to waste spot on Edgar Markov. Adding +1/+1 counters is an ability replicated in many of the other options within the tribe's arsenal. Throwing away spot on a creature that already does something many of the other creatures, with no evasion mind you, is particularly wasteful in my opinion. I think the concern there might be a bit inflated. If your opponent does throw some spot his way, oh well. He goes right back to making tokens until you want to cast him again.
TL;DR: Edgar Markov is a win more/mana sink with the added bonus of effectively being immune from truly being removed from play. You are only going to cast him when it wouldn't punish you to spend the 3RBW anyway and doing so only makes your position stronger. If you need to keep your deck budget, I do agree that you are better off in Orzhov than Mardu. In terms of gameplay, however, you'd still be better off in Mardu. Staying in Orzhov means sacrificing redundancy, options, and Mana Echoes; an enchantment that will effectively erase the colorless symbols in every single one of your spells for as long as you keep putting vampires into play.
I've also went ahead and cut Exsanguinate. Since I am not running a real tutor suite, chances of pushing out a fatal drain are slim. Having said that, it might make it's way back into the deck if I ever acquire a copy of Nirkana Revenant.
Herald's Horn is in since it pretty much acts as another copy of Phyrexian Arena and more steady card draw is good in this build. The cost reduction, while not a huge boon, is a nice bonus.
The thing I found by running more 1 and 2 drops is that it gives you the ability to curve into Captivating Vampire or Bloodline Keeper. This means you can start stealing creatures or swinging with a fat army really early and can potentially steal games against unprepared opponents.
Going the recursion route could work but I had a hard time making the most of Markov while running with fewer creatures. My current recursion package includes Oversold Cemetery, Immortal Servitude and Athreos, God of Passage. Bloodline Necromancer is also probably going to find a way into the deck. Just need to mind the curve.
I have found Crescendo of War to be my Shared Animosity substitute. It gives other players incentive to attack into each other while you sit back behind your army of buffed tokens after it comes into play. Then swing in with impunity on our following turn with an army 5/1 vampire tokens.
Honestly, what else is there? Even Vandalblast could be subbed for the more versatile Merciless Eviction if you're looking to include that effect.
Extra attack phases would be another tool that red brings to the table but again ultimately I do not believe is the worth the include as most of these come with a RR in their cost and the deck, at it's core, is very B intensive. Running Mardu may work for you but I have my doubts, regardless of budget.
I do agree with you with regard to redundancy but there are still a few tools available to me in Orzhov or even Artifacts if I wanted more copies of a certain effect. I don't have access to the mana generation that Mana Echoes provides but my average cc is pretty low to the ground. Again, what most people seem to miss while brewing Edgar is that black vampires have up to BBB in their mana cost which makes colorless mana significantly less useful unless you're running X spells or heavy mana sinks. If anything, Black Market would be better in some aspects.
You are right about my opinion on actually casting Edgar. I underestimated his presence on the board. I'm in the midst of remedying that by adding a few red sources in the mana base but they will be added solely for the possibility of casting Edgar and not for splashing random red cards into the actual deck.
My small list of red mana sources so far. I am considering the signets as well.
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Path of Ancestry
1x Tainted Peak
1x Unclaimed Territory
1x Sulfurous Spring
1x Graven Cairns
1x Mana Confluence
Indulgent Aristocrat
Stromkirk Condemned
Captivating Vampire
Drana, Liberator of Malakir
Bloodline Keeper
Vampire Nocturnus
Necropolis Regent
Patron of the Vein
Mirror Entity
I honestly think it's enough but I do realize that some of these are conditional and not necessarily true lords. They do have their pros and cons though.
Update: I replaced Herald's Horn with Bontu's Monument. Same mana cost, doesn't net me a card but does bleed the table. Note that I am developing a pseudo aristocrats theme with Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble, Athreos, God of Passage, Kalastria Highborn and to a lesser extent Malakir Bloodwitch and now the Monument.
Added Throne of the God-Pharaoh.
Replaced Bloodghast with Blood Seeker.
OUT
Guul Draz Assassin
IN
Zulaport Cutthroat
OUT
Mirri the Cursed
IN
Irini Sengir
I already run Crovax the Cursed as my pet card. Mirri is one pet card too many.
Mirri doesn't do much other than beat face. Meanwhile, Irini Sengir costs the same and hates on Green and White enchantments, which are fairly common in EDH. She's also a Vampire Dwarf.
True, Irini is a bit of a non-bo with Crescendo of War but let's face it. It probably hurts our opponents more than it does our deck.
Second, Black Market is a bit counterproductive to the Swarm build. Many of the brewers here have the right idea that it's okay to create a pseudo-sacrifice engine with that version. Having stuff like Grave Pact or Dictate of Erebos in play while you use natural sac, such as Viscera Seer, Yahenni, or Indulgent, creates an insane amount of card advantage for you real fast. Black Market encourages an overextension into sacrifice that I feel is simply not synergistic here. Compare that to Mana Echoes, where I am rewarded with 1 for every vampire in play every single time I do what comes naturally to the deck, play creatures. It's ridiculously easy to have 4 or 6 vampires in play with the Swarm build. Casting a vampire, in that scenario, means you get 4 or 6 for just the vampire you've now cast. Your token then comes into play to generate even more value with an additional 5 or 7. With that level of mana, you only need an additional RBB to both damage a creature and steal it in one turn with Olivia Voldaren.
Effectively, what you've created is an Urza's Incubator on steroids. Not only have you eliminated the colorless requirements of every spell in your entire deck, you've also wiped out the colorless requirements of every activated ability your vampires possess for one phase. That's an insane amount of value to be generating just from doing what comes naturally to the deck and it's value that Urza's Incubator, an artifact that comes up consistently in these brews, cannot generate. To the extent that Mana Echoes is worse is that it's really a momentum card and Urza is a static card. The only way you keep getting that value is if you keep consistently dropping vampires. If you are running less than 25 creatures, like the Aristocrats variant, you are much better off excluding it.
If creating an exorbitant amount of B is what you are looking for, Nykthos is the best option anyway. There are so many B, BB, and BBB among the most common permanent options in these decks that I think Nykthos becomes a potent weapon quickly. It also plays to your strategy of swarm, as it just gets stronger with each permanent sharing at least one B. From the perspective of your colored permanents, you are essentially running a black devotion deck with a few outliers.
With all of that being said, I'm not entirely sold on Mana Echoes exclusively because my own enchantment slots, of which I have 10 total, is rather packed. The only flex spot that I really have is between Cathars' Crusade and Mana Echoes, with Cathars' Crusade being one of our best options at recovering from board wipe.