@Dumoko
Thanks for the compliments! I sincerely appreciate them and I'm glad that you've found the Primer useful! That's the best kind of compleI can hear.
I've been out of the forums for a while due to some marital issues, so I apologize for not responding sooner, comrade.
Kaalia, when piloted and built properly, can be a total nightmare for your opponents and a ton of fun for you. I'm glad that you have a relative cousin of the deck that's customized to you; the current Stax Primer is really not a lot of fun for your opponents to play against.
What direction did you decide to go with your own Kaalia list?
Sarkhan, the Masterless – cool card is cool, but definitely not good enough for Kaalia. One day, Sarkhan. One day they’ll print a Mardu version of you that will be good. But today is not that day…
Feather, the Redeemed – definitely not good enough for this deck, though I sincerely appreciate that they made Feather a real MTG card.
Sadly, not a ton of good cards for Kaalia, but that's ok. I'm sure Modern Horizons will be good to this deck!
I will also be formally moving this Primer over to the cEDH forums, since it's built with a cEDH mindset at the current moment. Just giving y'all a heads up!
@benjameenbear,
I keep my fingers crossed that you will stay strong through whatever issues the life will throw at you…
Regarding Kaalia:
The multiplayer environment definitely had a strong impact on the list of my deck.
Disclaimer
The deck was not built for competitive purposes.
The same (more/less):
Kaalia-targets staples
Mana rocks
Most of the lands
Most of stax
The number of each type of cards (removal, card draw, mana rocks, targets, etc)
The different: Life gain
I noticed that multiplayer Kaalia should pay a muuuch closer look at her life total. In 1:1 the game just doesn’t live up to the moment when life-draining spells and abilities will have an impact. In multiplayer, oh boy it does (especially, for some unknown reason, me becoming the first target of early aggression. I wonder why? sarcasm) Resolute Archangel Sunscorch Regent Shattered Angel Debt to the Deathless - enormous life gain. Sometimes, a really fun finisher that nobody expects.
Mass-removal
In multiplayer, when games tend to be a bit longer, dealing 2-3 damage doesn’t help anymore.
There is a need for board wipes, to get a come-back chance since Kaalia is quite bad at defending. Day of Judgment Earthquake is a hell of a fantastic card for Kaalia in this format!
Splashing graveyard interaction
Not a quick game, creatures will get into greaveyard, and some of those are the ones you WILL want to get back to the battlefield. Victimize Unburial Rites
“Why these inefficient card draws, lands, removals, tutors??“
It depends, but most times the answer is “budget”. What I had was good enough, and overpaying $5-40 on each card just to get a sliiiiight advantange wasn’t my priority.
Kaalia protection
A friend told me “the less you try to protect her, the more dangerous she becomes”. It took me many games to understand what he meant. The more cards are actually agro oriented, the more havoc the deck will bring. But, just for the fun purposes, I added some. Especially when there is not one, but many opponents, each having some removals in their deck, it's harder to keep Kaalia afloat just on pure aggression. Darksteel Plate Whispersilk Cloak Boros Charm - I find this card to be terrific. Protection? Yes, please, everybody lives. Unexpected combat trick/finisher? Sure, here you go. Need an urgent removal? No problem.
Other cards explanation Dragon Mage - thinking of removing from the deck. When you have several opponents, the fact that you draw 7 cards (usually after discarding 0-2) doesn’t sound as good as when 2-4 opponents say in one voice: “oh! cool, thanks!!” Syphon Mind - usually a 3 for 4 mana, but it’s next go out from the deck. Disciple of Bolas should be a much better replacement. Liliana's Contract - well, for some reason I definitely favor demons. They seem so much more powerful… Therefore half of my targets are demons. I wait for the moment when this card will win me a game, then I’ll get satisfied, and substitute it.
P.S.
I still play to see how can I make my Kaalia better considering the meta and multiplayer environment. I don't feel it's a finished deck.
Feedback welcome from anyone on any of the points.
With the caveat that you've built your deck for non-competitive purposes, I think that you have a great decklist as is. There are a few Kaalia targets I'll bring to your attention that I think you should include, particularly since they're relatively budget additions as well.
Unless it's relevant for your playgroup, I think Shattered Angel is outclassed by your other targets and would be better as a Scourge of Kher Ridges. You increase your functional removal count for the deck while maintaining the same number of Kaalia targets. I can't tell you how many times the Pyroclasm at will has been relevant for games that this deck has played in.
Since your Stax count is relatively light, I think I can support the cutting of Dragon Mage. Giving your opponents fresh cards without a high enough count of oppressive/card-neutralizing Stax/Hate pieces will probably backfire on you more often than not. I think Doom Whisperer is a great fit in this slot instead since it ensures card quality. While not pure card advantage (sadly), being able to filter through the top of your deck for a relevant card is better than nothing, while also being a heavy hitter in combat. Bonus points for increasing the Demon count for Liliana's Contract!
I suspect that Path to Exile is a little too beneficial for your opponents whenever you cast it. You could swap this for Swords to Plowshares so that you have an instant speed removal effect without a true benefit for your opponents.
Something you could consider as well is adding in Living Death, other Reanimation effects, and Karmic Guide. Since your playgroup/decklist is admittedly more casual, the games go longer and I'm confident that you experience more removal than usual. Adding in Reanimation effects will help to mitigate these kind of effects while increasing the resiliency of your decklist in the long-game.
I asked over in my primer but I'm bringing it over here as well since I believe it merits discussion.
What do we say about this as a cost reducer? Making Kaalia cost 1R, half price Grand Abolisher, and free Mom/Kor Mom is great. Being able to t4 Kaalia + Boots is a fantastic feeling. It's not without it's weaknesses of course, being an otherwise gray ogre and we don't have any direct cleric support.
@Dumoko if Liliana's Contract is your thing, I devoted (in multiplayer no less) an entire archetype to Contract with worldgorger dragon backup. You could likely gleam some info from that, or even eschew the WGD parts and go full Contract. Hope that helps.
It's been a great time being a member of this community. Truly, this site has been a lifeline for me in my lowest life moments and I've grown and developed as a player in direct response to the feedback I've received, the comments I've read, and the decklists I've perused on this site. MTGSal has been my online MTG home since 2009 and I have nothing but fond memories of this site.
However, in light of the closure announcement of MTGSal and its attendant 11th hour resurrection, I have personally decided to commit myself fully to the MTGNexus project that Feyd_Ruin has started. My reasoning, which I hope you'll respect and appreciate, is explained below.
First and foremost, the majority of the MTGSal staff that make this site work and function are leaving for MTGNexus. This wholesale migration of valuable and active members within the MTGSAl community that maintain its integrity and reputation leaves me uneasy as to the future direction of this site. Cryogen, Airithne, Wildfire, and many others that make this site tick are already active on MTGNexus and are, quite frankly, having a better experience with the new platform and have already established the basic infrastructure to make it successful in the same ways that MTGSal has been successful. I'm a strong supporter of these individuals and prefer to trust my online MTG experience to people that have been a part of the online MTG space for decades. I will be leaving this site to follow them in the new adventure that is Nexus, and I'm super happy to do so.
Next, the coding versatility and overall look and feel of MTGNexus is, quite simply, gorgeous. Check out the site here and explore if for a few minutes yourself. Then, check out these two Primers to get an idea of the coding versatility that exists on the new platform: darrenhabib's Will & Rowan Kenrith Primer and rumpy5897's Feather, the Redeemed Primer. In comparison to MTGSal, I think these Primers are far and away the visually superior product in comparing them to their respective MTGSal primers, and this kind of experience is one that I've personally always wanted from my online MTG experience. So, from a user standpoint, I find MTGNexus to offer a superior experience from a backend coding perspective that allows users to create visually complex and attractive posts that is unmatched by MTGSalvation.
Finally, there is a chance for myself, in my current Moderator position on MTGNexus, to be able to positively shape the way MTGNexus as a site performs. I'm an inherently creative person, and because of the personal relationship that I have with the site Admins and Owner, I feel confident that I will be able to influence the site in the ways that I think will increase MTGNexus' stature and reputation. In my current role on MTGSal, this is just not the case. It's like shouting into a void when it comes to real, concrete suggestions that the site Admins need to look over that never happens. I will have a chance to proactively introduce new content and new directions for the site that will actually be listened to and implemented by the MTGNexus staff, which will lead to a better user experience for me personally.
It's been a great adventure on MTGSal, and I'll be stepping down from all responsibilities on MTGSal by the end of 7/11/2019 at the official launch of MTGNexus and will be removing all of my content, with the exception of decklists from MTGSal as a site. I will NOT be updating the MTGSal threads and will not be actively contributing to MTGSal except on the rare occassion that my fancy is struck.
I wish you the best journey should you remain on MTGSal, but I would encourage you to give MTGNexus a try. It's already got a lot of participation and a large segment of the MTGSal community has already made the jump.
Why not you? It's your chance to start over fresh, contribute in a meaningful way to a new platform, and have a chance to positively shape what will become the premier MTG site on the internet.
Thanks for the compliments! I sincerely appreciate them and I'm glad that you've found the Primer useful! That's the best kind of compleI can hear.
I've been out of the forums for a while due to some marital issues, so I apologize for not responding sooner, comrade.
Kaalia, when piloted and built properly, can be a total nightmare for your opponents and a ton of fun for you. I'm glad that you have a relative cousin of the deck that's customized to you; the current Stax Primer is really not a lot of fun for your opponents to play against.
What direction did you decide to go with your own Kaalia list?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Sadly, not a ton of good cards for Kaalia, but that's ok. I'm sure Modern Horizons will be good to this deck!
I will also be formally moving this Primer over to the cEDH forums, since it's built with a cEDH mindset at the current moment. Just giving y'all a heads up!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I keep my fingers crossed that you will stay strong through whatever issues the life will throw at you…
Regarding Kaalia:
The multiplayer environment definitely had a strong impact on the list of my deck.
Disclaimer
The deck was not built for competitive purposes.
The same (more/less):
The different:
Life gain
I noticed that multiplayer Kaalia should pay a muuuch closer look at her life total. In 1:1 the game just doesn’t live up to the moment when life-draining spells and abilities will have an impact. In multiplayer, oh boy it does (especially, for some unknown reason, me becoming the first target of early aggression. I wonder why? sarcasm)
Resolute Archangel
Sunscorch Regent
Shattered Angel
Debt to the Deathless - enormous life gain. Sometimes, a really fun finisher that nobody expects.
Mass-removal
In multiplayer, when games tend to be a bit longer, dealing 2-3 damage doesn’t help anymore.
There is a need for board wipes, to get a come-back chance since Kaalia is quite bad at defending.
Day of Judgment
Earthquake is a hell of a fantastic card for Kaalia in this format!
Splashing graveyard interaction
Not a quick game, creatures will get into greaveyard, and some of those are the ones you WILL want to get back to the battlefield.
Victimize
Unburial Rites
“Why these inefficient card draws, lands, removals, tutors??“
It depends, but most times the answer is “budget”. What I had was good enough, and overpaying $5-40 on each card just to get a sliiiiight advantange wasn’t my priority.
Kaalia protection
A friend told me “the less you try to protect her, the more dangerous she becomes”. It took me many games to understand what he meant. The more cards are actually agro oriented, the more havoc the deck will bring. But, just for the fun purposes, I added some. Especially when there is not one, but many opponents, each having some removals in their deck, it's harder to keep Kaalia afloat just on pure aggression.
Darksteel Plate
Whispersilk Cloak
Boros Charm - I find this card to be terrific. Protection? Yes, please, everybody lives. Unexpected combat trick/finisher? Sure, here you go. Need an urgent removal? No problem.
Other cards explanation
Dragon Mage - thinking of removing from the deck. When you have several opponents, the fact that you draw 7 cards (usually after discarding 0-2) doesn’t sound as good as when 2-4 opponents say in one voice: “oh! cool, thanks!!”
Syphon Mind - usually a 3 for 4 mana, but it’s next go out from the deck. Disciple of Bolas should be a much better replacement.
Liliana's Contract - well, for some reason I definitely favor demons. They seem so much more powerful… Therefore half of my targets are demons. I wait for the moment when this card will win me a game, then I’ll get satisfied, and substitute it.
1 Kaalia of the Vast
//Targets
1 Angel of Despair
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Angelic Arbiter
1 Archfiend of Depravity
1 Archfiend of Despair
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Demonlord Belzenlok
1 Dragon Mage
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
1 Lord of the Void
1 Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
1 Overseer of the Damned
1 Resolute Archangel
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Shattered Angel
1 Sunscorch Regent
1 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
1 Utvara Hellkite
//Rocks
1 Boros Signet
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Fire Diamond
1 Marble Diamond
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Cursed Totem
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Rule of Law
1 Stranglehold
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Aven Mindcensor
//Utilities
1 Boros Charm
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Day of Judgment
1 Debt to the Deathless
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Dragon Tempest
1 Earthquake
1 Fervor
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Liliana's Contract
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Morbid Curiosity
1 Mortify
1 Necropotence
1 Painful Truths
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Syphon Mind
1 Terminate
1 Unburial Rites
1 Victimize
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Barren Moor
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boros Garrison
1 Canyon Slough
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Mountain
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Orzhov Basilica
4 Plains
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Smoldering Marsh
4 Swamp
1 Vivid Meadow
P.S.
I still play to see how can I make my Kaalia better considering the meta and multiplayer environment. I don't feel it's a finished deck.
Feedback welcome from anyone on any of the points.
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Doom Whisperer
1 Swords to Plowshares
All of these cards are under $10, and I think that the suggested cuts I would make are as follows:
Something you could consider as well is adding in Living Death, other Reanimation effects, and Karmic Guide. Since your playgroup/decklist is admittedly more casual, the games go longer and I'm confident that you experience more removal than usual. Adding in Reanimation effects will help to mitigate these kind of effects while increasing the resiliency of your decklist in the long-game.
I hope this helps!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
What do we say about this as a cost reducer? Making Kaalia cost 1R, half price Grand Abolisher, and free Mom/Kor Mom is great. Being able to t4 Kaalia + Boots is a fantastic feeling. It's not without it's weaknesses of course, being an otherwise gray ogre and we don't have any direct cleric support.
@Dumoko if Liliana's Contract is your thing, I devoted (in multiplayer no less) an entire archetype to Contract with worldgorger dragon backup. You could likely gleam some info from that, or even eschew the WGD parts and go full Contract. Hope that helps.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Hmm, there are some good cards in that list. I certainly think it's worth exploring. I particularly like the Remorseful Cleric, the Sanctum Prelate, Doomed Necromancer, Leonin Relic-Warder, Glowrider, Ethersworn Canonist, and Alms Collector. That's a really decent pile of Clerics right there, so perhaps Edgewalker does have some applications for Kaalia.
The only thing that I don't like about it is that it costs 3 CMC. The 'Walker doesn't directly power out a T3 Kaalia like I want it to, sadly.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
It's been a great time being a member of this community. Truly, this site has been a lifeline for me in my lowest life moments and I've grown and developed as a player in direct response to the feedback I've received, the comments I've read, and the decklists I've perused on this site. MTGSal has been my online MTG home since 2009 and I have nothing but fond memories of this site.
However, in light of the closure announcement of MTGSal and its attendant 11th hour resurrection, I have personally decided to commit myself fully to the MTGNexus project that Feyd_Ruin has started. My reasoning, which I hope you'll respect and appreciate, is explained below.
It's been a great adventure on MTGSal, and I'll be stepping down from all responsibilities on MTGSal by the end of 7/11/2019 at the official launch of MTGNexus and will be removing all of my content, with the exception of decklists from MTGSal as a site. I will NOT be updating the MTGSal threads and will not be actively contributing to MTGSal except on the rare occassion that my fancy is struck.
I wish you the best journey should you remain on MTGSal, but I would encourage you to give MTGNexus a try. It's already got a lot of participation and a large segment of the MTGSal community has already made the jump.
Why not you? It's your chance to start over fresh, contribute in a meaningful way to a new platform, and have a chance to positively shape what will become the premier MTG site on the internet.
Adieu, my friends!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager