Too much fat and not enough control. Kaalia decks have the inherent issue of resolving AND swinging with her to get value... which you have slim pickings for that to happen. Lightning Greaves and Defense Grid are about it.
@KokoroKishin Necropotence is too good to pass up and the heavy B requirement is not difficult to achieve in this list. The card advantage it provides is very critical to this deck in order to maintain its pressure, or payoff as elfric calls it. Potence and True Conviction are part of the Academy Rector package that is in the list and I've actually had great success with True Conviction in closing out games faster. It eliminates the need to draw more Angels, Demons, or Dragons since each one I draw, with the Conviction on the field, yields more damage output.
Night's Whisper is a card I've forgotten about. Thanks for mentioning it! It easily replaces Spiteful Visions in this list as that card was mostly a placeholder for a card advantage piece.
@elfric
First, I will definitely respect you as the Master of Stax here on MTGSalvation. I tried looking for the Unholy Bible thread that you posted a long time ago and couldn't find it, for some reason. Thanks for chiming in and adding additional suggestions!
In regards to the card choices that you mention, I'll go through and address each of them:
Dragon Tempest - this has been very, very good in games as it gives haste as an ETB effect. I tried Swiftfoot Boots in its spot but the equip cost was too high. The additional utility of pinging off mana dorks with any Dragons that ETB is pretty awesome, and helps to constrict mana for the various green decks this deck plays against (Yisan, Animar, Freyalise Elfball). I've been very pleased with it as it performs a similar function to Lightning Greaves but has an additional effect that more often than not is useful.
Spiteful Visions - yep, terrible card. It's mostly there as a place holder for a card advantage spell. Night's Whisper is fantastic, so I'll make that swap no problem.
True Conviction - it helps shorten the clock against my opponents by maximizing the damage output of each individual creature. This in turn allows me to need less Angels, Demons, or Dragons, as mentioned above, because each of them that I do draw will do way more damage to each respective opponent. The life-gain is neat, and helps make Tendrils of Agony kills harder for the opponent who tries to play Storm Tendrils (not very well, I might add). I've debated about this slot with Havoc Festival for a long time now, since they both shorten the clock substantially, and my wife prefers the Conviction. With this being said, there have been enough times that the card has been on the field and useless because Kaalia's board was wrthed, so it's been on the watchlist for some time now.
Overwhelming Splendor - this is a test card from the new set that looks very exciting for the Academy Rector package that is in the deck. That's pretty much why it's in the list, but its narrowness in neutering a single opponent loses some value in my opinion. Enchanting the Animar player or the Damia player in our group with this card would spell doom to them for enough turns that Kaalia would eventually kill them off, so we'll see.
Nahiri, the Harbinger - this was a recent inclusion a few months ago, since it has removal and card advantage built into her, but ironically has not been tutored for or drawn in any games that have been played. I admire her ultimate and its synergy with Kaalia but recognize that she might be too slow for what the deck is trying to accomplish.
Thanks for the list of cards you suggest! Boil looks particularly appealing against the decks that Kaalia goes up against most often (Nekusar, Azami, Teferi, Animar, Damia), so that is a particularly niche card that looks useful.
In regards to the rest of your post, the game strategy does not resolve entirely around Geddon effects. Is it the most compact and efficient way for the deck to win? Yes, it is. However, there are really only 4 effective MLD effects that are useful and reasonably costed for a competitive game: Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, and Catastrophe. Even then, Catastrophe is still on the expensive side for what it does, so it's not run in this list. To supplement the MLD effects, and to increase the overall effectiveness of the deck, a hate-bear/Stax suite has been added to maximize the disruption against all opponents. I might note that I use the term 'Stax' very liberally, meaning any card that is blanket disruption to each of my opponents that is artifact, creature, or enchantment based. Stax, in my vernacular, is not confined to strictly mana denial strategies, though that is where the term should be used if I'm being correct.
The list of cards that add disruption to the deck that are 'STax-y' is pretty substantial: Cursed Totem, Defense Grid, Pithing Needle, Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Stranglehold, Sire of Insanity, Rakdos the Defiler, Eidolon of Rhetoric, and Iona, Shield of Emeria are all very disruptive and hard to handle. Three of those cards I mention are indeed pay-off cards, but they are very effective at what they do and should be included in the list. I can't build a dedicated Stax list like your Tymna + Tana stax list because Kaalia does require cards in order for her to have a payout. Any less than 20 Angels, Demons, or Dragons alongside the tutors that are played and there are enough turns that pass where Kaalia doesn't have something to drop into play that the deck seriously loses effectiveness. Since I can't run a dedicated Stax deck, I need to implement as many of the most effective pieces of disruption that I can while still maximizing the payoff of Kaalia.
In my experience in playing with Kaalia, a heavy removal suite is just as effective against top-tier strategies as multiple-opponent affecting Stax cards, and the list reflects that. If I know which decks I'm playing against and what cards they need to effectively work (killing generals, even once, seems to be a major weakness to be exploited in my playgroup), than casting the disruption and the removal in the early turns of the game is a priority rather than casting Kaalia as quickly as possible. That's why Mizzium Mortars is in the list. It kills a T2 general, any creature based general, every time. The off-chance of wiping the board is useful, and adds additional value to the card, but is not the primary reason the card is played. If I can kill Animar even once, than the Animar deck is slowed down enough that Kaalia, the obviously slower general, can safely be cast and a single attack step secured. That single attack step is usually enough to apply constant pressure to the game that my opponent's are eventually overwhelmed. Kaalia is most effective because she is a massively threat-dense deck; nearly every creature is something that needs to be answered, and quickly, or the the creatures will quickly kill the player. Is she weak to mass creature removal? Of course. But so is nearly every other competitive EDH deck. Adding disruption and other Stax effects to the MLD effects only increases that effectiveness because of the way those cards slow down the game.
With that being said, and after looking at some other cEDH stax lists floating around, I do think that the density of Stax effects could be increased. I know I mention Winter Orb in my description, so I should probably add that. In total, the cards I will be adding to the Sideboard and Maindeck will be:
Following this thread, as I am in the same spot, working on my stax suite. This is good information, keep the discussion going.
I can chime in on the Nahiri, as I have had her in my list for a couple of weeks and maybe 20 or 30 games, and when I did not play her, she did not last more then a turn or two and I always had wished I had played something else. I really wanted her to work as her abilities were good, but we have other cards that propel Kaalia's theme better. I eventually took her out for Return to Dust and it has been about the same effect, sometimes better.
I've never looked at the definition of a tempo deck vs. a Stax deck that way before. That is exactly what this deck is looking for, and that makes a lot more sense and I define Kaalia to definitely be a Tempo deck. Nether Void definitely seems like a strong inclusion in terms of being a pseudo-Geddon because it constricts mana in a similar way. And the rest of the deck has a low CMC, so if I can get Kaalia underneath the Void than my opponent's land count might as well be useless. I like that one a lot.
The decks that Kaalia plays against most often are mana-dork decks. Cursed Totem and Linvala, Keeper of Silence do way more work against my opponents than Null Rod and Stony Silence. The dis-synergy with my mana rocks is a little too much for me to accept. I am still very curious on how effective Blood Moon is because a lot of the decks are Tri-Color decks and it would brutally hose them down.
I've never looked at the definition of a tempo deck vs. a Stax deck that way before. That is exactly what this deck is looking for, and that makes a lot more sense and I define Kaalia to definitely be a Tempo deck. Nether Void definitely seems like a strong inclusion in terms of being a pseudo-Geddon because it constricts mana in a similar way. And the rest of the deck has a low CMC, so if I can get Kaalia underneath the Void than my opponent's land count might as well be useless. I like that one a lot.
The decks that Kaalia plays against most often are mana-dork decks. Cursed Totem and Linvala, Keeper of Silence do way more work against my opponents than Null Rod and Stony Silence. The dis-synergy with my mana rocks is a little too much for me to accept. I am still very curious on how effective Blood Moon is because a lot of the decks are Tri-Color decks and it would brutally hose them down.
I have been having great luck with Blood Moon once it is cast. Most of the decks have been totally shut off until they got a basic, or a mana rock that produced the colors they needed.
I was going to pick up a Nether Void but I may have to wait, as its cost factor is quite high as I just picked up Ravages of War. I have tried some stax effects as suggested previously, and placed in Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and have seen some decent results from her as far as counters and other unsavory non-creatures.
@MagicMaster
I'm glad that you're having good results with Blood Moon. I've seen it pop up several times in other cEDH lists, even ones that are multiple colors. The mana screw it offers is legit, and is another pseudo-Armageddon effect that maximizes the land-destruction theme going on. I'll have to give it a try, after some testing of Overwhelming Splendor with Academy Rector. I suspect that it won't be as good as I want it to be, but it's freaking Nicol Bolas themed. Too freaking bad that Nicol Bolas is Grixis themed and not Mardu...
I also really like Wear/Tear and Hide/Seek for answers
And Red Blast/Pyroblast cause blue
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Razia's Purification is a decent card, but I don't like that it gives opponents the option to pick their three best permanents. It is best compared to Cataclysm, and 'Clysm is better since it specifies one permanent of each category. I've found that casting the Clysm is more effective than allowing three permanents of your opponent's choice to survive. Combined with its higher CMC, and it doesn't quite make the list.
Hide/Seek and Wear/Tear are definitely good cards. I'll have to include them in the card choices section, but that will be forthcoming.
Pyroblast has already found a slot in the main-board, and REB is in the sideboard. There are a few niche instances where having either on the deck makes them dead draws, but there is always at least one U player at the table to justify at least the one anti-Blue slot.
I updated the OP to include a few more sections. I might apply for Primer status since the other Kaalia lists aren't very active anymore on MTGSalvation and my wife and I play enough games that I would have a regularly updated Primer. We'll see.
@Dreaden
Welcome to MTGSalvation, my friend! I took a look at your list and you have a surprising blend of cards in there. Would you like me to critique it and offer suggestions or are you simply posting to share ideas?
Moat is an awesome card in my particular meta. Kaalia is consistently the only deck that regularly has flyers, so Moat stops all attacks pretty conclusively. However, in a more general meta, I don't know if the card matters. Most people are going to kill the table with some sort of combo, so limiting which creatures can or cannot attack doesn't strike me as especially important. How has it performed for you?
I took out Karmic Guide and another card for Havoc Festival and Chancellor of the Annex. It's a great card to have in your opener and the consistent taxing effect is welcome as well. Frequently, our creatures dominate the table and don't die very often. They're usually exiled our bounced back to hand in some form or fashion, so the Guide was more often than not a useless card.
Added a few more sections to the Primer detailing strategy and also added some additional card images. I might apply for a Primer status since it doesn't appear that there is one that is regularly maintained in a multi-player setting.
Have you considered Reconnaissance? This card is super broken and works amazingly well with commanders with attack triggers like kaalia, alesha, aurelia, narset etc. You can even untap after combat damage is dealt as the creture is considered an 'attacking creature' all the way until the end of the end of combat step.
@Last Laugh Reconaissance is a card I haven't looked at in a long time. I'll have to evaluate it more seriously, but my first thought is that it isn't necessary. Usually, in my experience, Kaalia is one of the few creatures that has flying on the board when she does come down. And if she isn't, I usually use one of the plethora of removal spells to remove said blocker out of the way. While it does protect Kaalia, it doesn't protect Kaalia in the way that I'd like it to. Kaalia dies to spot or mass removal or a counterspell; Reconaissance doesn't solve any of those problems. Have you seen the enchantment be useful?
Reconnaissance I've had put in serious work... so much work it feels like cheating. You're right that it doesn't protect against removal (unless it's going after an 'attacking creature' or tapped creature) but what it does is very handy for attack triggers and it allows you to be super agressive safely.
It allows you to cheat in your creature safely against anyone and you can untap kaalia and/or the cheated in creature before combat damage is dealt to avoid unfavorable blockers, after first strike damage is dealt but before normal combat damage, and/or after normal combat damage is dealt but prior to the end of the end of combat step for pseudo vigilance. This allows you to swing all out safely and still have every creature available as a blocker. All I can say is make room for it to give it a try and you'll never want to cut it.
When I play Kaalia all I want is to other people just let me do my bussiness, in a 1v1 enviroment this is easy to acomplish and Kaalia is just sick, in a 3-4 player table the odds are against us because everyone in the table will fear us from the start.
I dont see Kaalia as a full stax commander, but I have been working in a decklist with good results, I don't drop the graveyard recursion but added this things
1) Grand abolisher with this dude in the field we are able to cast Kaalia, swing and be happy in our turn without worring about counters or removal, we can also cas freely our armageddon or cataclysm while we smile to the blue mage at our left.
2) War's toll, this may seem like not much... but... it works just fine and is a fair card, as I said when I play Kaalia all I want is to develop my gameplan without interruptions, this card forces our opponents to make a choice every turn, they can move forward to develop their gameplan or they can be at hold to try to riun our plan (or ayone elses), so The blue mage will be able to counter just ONE spell, the other players will be have to choose between making they proactive stuff or wait for us.
3) Winter orb and Static orb, more of the same of number 2, with this cards in play everyone has to evaluate how to play, if they want to move forward in their gameplan they better count that mana, I know how I want to spend mine, and I know how I want my opponents spent theirs (developing their plans without interfiring in mines)
4) Stranglehold another assymetrical card, I love it because 90% of the time my opponents HAVE to deal with it, I know this enchant wont last a lot but while it does, it holds a lot of stuff and.. shuts cmombos or annoying things like taking turns.
5) Aven mindcensor, this dude is great, is another dirty trick (but fair), for 3cmc we have a 2/1 body, a great effect, a great removal bait, a bloquer or even a warrior with the Umezawa's jitte equipped
6) Hushwing Gryff, I am tired of stupid things doing stupid stuff like acidic slime, eternal witness, snapcaster mage and things like that, so the next time an opponent casts such cards we have our very best counter, attached off course to a 2/1 flying body that screams to be removed (removal against hatebears mens less for kaalia or fatties)
7) Apostle's blessing and faith's shield, may seem reactive but for just one single mana we can protect everything we need, our fatties, our lady, our enchants, our artifacts, I have never EVER draw one of this cards and wasn't happy about it.
8) reverberate I can't say how much value this card has every single time I drew it, so you cast a counterspell OK, ill counter your counter, ohh, you want to draw with harmonize well, thanks for the 3 cards.
I won't talk about my other cards because they are not STAX oriented, I play a good set of reanimation package, 6-7 spot removal and off course our beloved fatties.
If you think there are other cards that will help the strategy "keep you focus on your game and leave me alone" plz share it
@Alexev
I agree with your statement that Kaalia is not a full-on Stax commander. I certainly don't run enough Stax pieces to be correctly classified as a Stax deck. But there is a sold suite of Stax-y cards that help slow down our opponents' game plans enough to allow us an opportunity to cast Kaalia and turn her sideways. I will reiterate that when I use the term Stax within a post, I don't necessarily mean any card that forces an opponent to lose resources a la Smokestack. I'm talking more generally about cards that restrict my opponent from executing their game plan. In my opinion, Rule of Law is a Stax card. Aven Mindcensor is more of a Stax card than a hate-bear in my mind. Stranglehold is another good example of what I would consider a Stax card. Perhaps I'm incorrectly using the term as it's been previously defined, but I am trying to run a robust suite of cards that diminish my opponents' ability from executing their game plan.
As the general strategy section attempts to describe, Kaalia isn't the fastest deck at the table normally. So we need to bring our opponents to the same pace, if not slower, in order to be truly effective. Stax cards are the best way to do this, from my observations and experience.
I think the list of cards that you've included in your deck is a strong inclusion. I think Apostle's Blessing is an interesting inclusion and definitely worth a good look since spot removal is most definitely the more effective means of removal against Kaalia that can occur. War's Toll isn't the most relevant card in my opinion, and if I were trying to stop U/x mages from interacting with me I would probably run Price of Glory instead. It's cheaper in CMC and is way more deadly against people who are trying to play on others' turns.
I feel obligated to tell you that the strategy of "Leave me alone and play your own game" is not what this particular decklist is trying to do. It's more of a "SCREW your game plan, kill ALL your creatures, destroy your resources, and kill you dead". There is no incentive for opponents to leave us alone with the cards that are being played here. So, the strategy is more careful than a Kaalia deck might normally be. There are of course opportunities where you can windmill slam Kaalia into play on T2 or T3 and begin to obliterate the table, but the primary strategy is to kill all the things and restrict your opponent's from doing anything productive in executing their strategy. Then, when they're trying to figure out how to get past your Aven Mindcensor from restricting their game-winning tutor, you then cast Kaalia and begin to wreck the board. Kaalia is already going to be drawing the attention of the table. I decided to lean into that reputation and make her even more of a threat by ante-ing up the amount of ruthless cards being played. And sadly, Kaali is sometimes still not the biggest threat at the table.
Made some serious updates to the OP Primer post to get it to qualify for Primer status. I cut some of the pictures from the Primer because they were interfering with the main Primer coding and layout. Once the coding has been reviewed, pictures will be added in to enrich the Primer layout.
Upon further reflection of this deck's performance and some changes in my playgroup, there are some card choices that I think need to be updated and included in the main decklist now. Steel Hellkite, Rest in Peace, Rule of Law, Aura of Silence, and Lightning Bolt are all looking more attractive as my playgroup progresses. The Azami player in our group recently dismantled it in favor of building The TrueNub's Arcum Dagsson list. This, in conjunction with my own Teferi and Memnarch lists, makes the mentioned cards very attractive for the way that they can interact with each deck.
Rule of Law shuts down Animar, Teferi, Arcum, Edric, and Freyalise; Rest in Peace puts a hard stop to Arcum Dagsson; Lightning Bolt kills all of the generals this deck faces at various stages, being particularly useful against Teferi, Arcum, and Animar; Aura of Silence is point spot removal for The Chain Veil, Paradox Engine, or Memnarch while also taxing resources for enchantments and artifacts; and Steel Hellkite is a repeatable wrath effect that is very effective at taking out artifact mana bases (most mana-rocks cluster at CMC 1 or CMC 2 in my playgroup).
EDIT:
I added Rule of Law and Steel Hellkite, taking out Havoc Festival and Master of Cruelties. I believe that these changes will help shore up the decklist against the new, and very effective, Arcum Dagsson list that was recently created.
I have been following this primer for some time now and wanted to commend you on your work.
I have copied your decklist almost identically. Thanks to your hard work and research I can safely say that I've been having some good results. I was looking around for a good Kaalia primer, and when I found yours I could see that this deck was doing exactly what I wanted from a Kaalia deck, and more!
I wanted to ask your advice because I am at somewhat of a dilemma. Out of your decklist I have made only a couple of small changes, and wanted to get your opinion if you recommend them or think I would be better suited doing something else.
The changes I have made to the decklist are as follows:
Pyroblast - Replaced with Teferi's Protection - I felt like some extra protection could help but I want to get an opinion on this change/if Pyroblast is the right card to be taking out for this change. In my playgroup Kaalia is a known threat and she always gets targeted, which is why I opted for this card.
Damnation - Replaced with Wrath of God - Because it's cheaper, not really much of a change here folks.
Grim Monolith - Replaced with Dark ritual - This too was done due to cost. But I feel like Dark Ritual could be more useful since we don't really plan to untap the Grim Monolith after its initial use and Dark Ritual produces black mana and is cheaper to cast than Grim Monolith which only produces colorless and is 1 more to cast.
Nether Void - Replaced with Master of Cruelties - Ok so hear me out here. If i could afford it then Nether Void would be in the deck for sure. But since $500USD is slightly more than I would feel comfortable spending on a single card, I can't include it in my own version of the deck. That being said I am aware that I am replacing a valuable stax piece with a creature which may not be recommended. Do you have any suggestions on what kind of stax piece I could replace Nether Void with if i wasn't going to replace it with Master of Cruelties. I've been thinking maybe Blood Moon/Aura of Silence/Damping Matrix/Catastrophe. Maybe even Sensei's Divining Top or Sword of Feast and Famine/Darksteel Plate for more protection?
On that note, Master of Cruelties is a card I want to include in the deck - I know it's kind of douchey but having the possibility of one shotting someone is too sweet for me to pass up. So if there was a creature in your list you think the deck could do without in order to make room for Master of Cruelties what would your suggestion be? Or do you think that the list of creatures you have are better suited to victory and removing one for the Master of Cruelties would be a mistake?
Thank you if you took the time to read this and thank you even more if you take the time to reply.
@siftidox
Welcome to the Forums! I've been on a hiatus because of my job in a startup company, which has been super busy and rewarding.
First, thanks for your kind words! I put a lot of thought into making it, and I'm glad it helped someone! Let me respond to your thoughts in turn:
Pyroblast is a card that is more specifically suited to the playgroup in which my wife plays most frequently. If Teferi's Protection is a better fit for your meta, I say go for it. The ability to Vindicate pretty much any permanent on the board is super useful, hence the 'Blast's inclusion in the deck.
Grim Monolith is useful because it DOES offer the ability to untap in case there is an opportunity to do so. While it is very unlikely that we will, it does help bridge the gap in casting our Angels/Demons/Dragons more consistently than Dark Ritual. However, in view of your budget, I think that Dark Ritual is a fine replacement. It allows a T2/T3 Kaalia, just like the Monolith does. It also allows a one-time casting of an Angel/Demon/Dragon, which is its primary purpose. I might also recommend Worn Powerstone as well.
Damnation is a color-shifted Wrath of God. Either/Or is acceptable as long as your mana base is decently consistent in generating the color requirements.
Nether Void is a card that is played only in competitive circles. And it's not necessary 100% for the deck to function well. However, it is absolutely BACK-BREAKING against competitive decks that operate on thin mana margins. An extra 3 is pretty much a hard-lock for most decks, and helps to close the door on the game that you're involved in. I recommend that you slot in a card advantage piece or another piece of Stax. Of the card choices that you suggested, I would recommend Aura of Silence or Catastrophe.
However, this new set has brought some incredible new cards to play with. The one that screams to me is Demonlord Belzenlok. It seems custom made for Kaalia in every way. It generates Card Advantage, is a Demon, AND hits hard. I actually have a new decklist that I'll be posting here shortly that reflects some of the new changes and cards that have been spoiled.
In a more general post, it's been a while since I've updated my threads. Working in a startup company constrains my time significantly.
I've thought a lot about the new cards, and the two that stand out most significantly are Lyra Dawnbringer and Demonlord Belzenlok. Dawnbringer is not as much of an auto-include as the Demon, but both are FANTASTIC additions to Kaalia.
I have a slightly more budget list that is also a [i[little[/i] more casual as well. One of the things I've noticed is that Kaalia can run out of gas without certain cards in play. Necropotence is almost absolutely vital in maintaining a good game pace and strategy execution. Anyways, I plan to update the OP to reflect the new cards and some updates in game strategy.
Morbid Curiosity is a fantastic card in this list. It usually draws upwards of 5+ cards every time it's cast, so it gets the nod over Ambition's Cost. More often than not, we have a creature we can sacrifice to keep the card advantage flowing, and this card is surprisingly effective.
Diabolic Tutor hasn't really helped the deck either. There's usually enough card advantage going that this card is usually redundant. But I am missing more Stax pieces. Fall of the Thran is much more expensive than I thought it would be, so it's getting cut as well. In their places, I'll add back Harvester of Souls and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. These are cards that have performed in the past that have been missed in playtesting. Worn Powerstone has been performing well enough, but I'd rather replace it with another Kaalia target, in the form of Archfiend of Despair. I anticipate that this card will DRASTICALLY shorten the clock for our opponents while also providing a nice bit of Hate with its denial of Life-gain. Lastly, Aven Mindcensor and Ob Nixilis, Unshackled are wanting back in as well. With the advent of a land ramp deck in our playgroup, punishing library-search effects is a must. Sign in Blood's double black cost has been difficult at times, so we'll see if removing a piece of card advantage for another hate-piece is a good switch. I'll be updating the OP list shortly.
I've also created a semi-budget list. I believe every card in the list is under $7. There is a lot of removal and the density of Kaalia targets is super-high, making sure you always have one or two in hand. It's also less heavy on the Stax disruption plan and aims to try and generate card advantage through removal effects and spells, card advantage, and a slightly more robust mana rocks section.
4x Kaalia of the Vast
Mana (11)
0x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Tithe
2x Boros Signet
2x Charcoal Diamond
2x Coldsteel Heart
2x Generator Servant
2x Marble Diamond
2x Orzhov Signet
2x Rakdos Signet
2x Talisman of Indulgence
Angels/Demons/Dragons (23)
4x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
5x Doom Whisperer
5x Lyra Dawnbringer
6x Aurelia, the Warleader
6x Demonlord Belzenlok
6x Hellkite Tyrant
6x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
6x Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
6x Sire of Insanity
6x Steel Hellkite
7x Angel of Despair
7x Angel of Serenity
7x Balefire Dragon
7x Chancellor of the Annex
7x Dragon Mage
7x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
7x Lord of the Void
7x Rune-Scarred Demon
8x Archfiend of Despair
8x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
8x Razaketh, the Foulblooded
8x Scourge of Kher Ridges
9x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Cursed Totem
2x Suppression Field
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Aven Mindcensor
3x Eidolon of Rhetoric
3x Rule of Law
4x Cataclysm
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Stranglehold
Tutors (4)
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
2x Demonic Tutor
3x Grim Tutor
Card Draw (7)
2x Night's Whisper
2x Sign in Blood
3x Morbid Curiosity
3x Necropotence
3x Painful Truths
3x Phyrexian Arena
3x Tymna the Weaver
Removal/Interaction (8)
1x Pyroblast
1x Swords to Plowshares
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Wear // Tear
3x Anguished Unmaking
3x Council's Judgment
3x Fire Covenant
3x Toxic Deluge
Utility (3)
2x Dragon Tempest
2x Grand Abolisher
2x Lightning Greaves
Lands (34)
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Command Tower
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Badlands
1x Scrubland
1x Plateau
1x Blood Crypt
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Godless Shrine
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Graven Cairns
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Fetid Heath
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Windswept Heath
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Plains
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4x Kaalia of the Vast
Mana Sources (10)
0x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Dark Ritual
2x Boros Signet
2x Rakdos Signet
2x Orzhov Signet
2x Charcoal Diamond
2x Coldsteel Heart
2x Talisman of Indulgence
2x Generator Servant
Reanimator Package (11)
1x Entomb
1x Gamble
1x Reanimate
2x Animate Dead
2x Dance of the Dead
2x Exhume
3x Buried Alive
3x Necromancy
3x Victimize
5x Unburial Rites
5x Living Death
Discard Effects (7)
1x Faithless Looting
2x Tormenting Voice
2x Cathartic Reunion
3x Wheel of Fortune
3x Magus of the Wheel
4x Sneak Attack
5x Reforge the Soul
Non-Kaalia Creatures (4)
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
5x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
6x Sun Titan
7x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4x Restoration Angel
5x Karmic Guide
5x Doom Whisperer
6x Demonlord Belzenlok
6x Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
6x Sire of Insanity
6x Steel Hellkite
6x Hellkite Tyrant
7x Dragon Mage
7x Angel of Despair
7x Balefire Dragon
7x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
7x Chancellor of the Annex
7x Rune-Scarred Demon
7x Emeria Shepherd
8x Archfiend of Despair
8x Razaketh, the Foulblooded
8x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
8x Scourge of Kher Ridges
8x Utvara Hellkite
9x Iona, Shield of Emeria
Removal (5)
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Lightning Axe
2x Wear // Tear
3x Toxic Deluge
3x Vindicate
Tutors/Utility (6)
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Demonic Tutor
2x Lightning Greaves
2x Dragon Tempest
3x Morbid Curiosity
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Command Tower
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Badlands
1x Scrubland
1x Plateau
1x Blood Crypt
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Godless Shrine
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Graven Cairns
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Fetid Heath
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Windswept Heath
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Plains
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Too many colored mana symbols attached to high costed cards for "MLD/STAX"ing (Necropotence, True Conviction, Mizzium Mortars-Overloaded). You reference Winter Orb, but it's not in the list.
Night's Whisper makes it into all my black decks now.
Necropotence is too good to pass up and the heavy B requirement is not difficult to achieve in this list. The card advantage it provides is very critical to this deck in order to maintain its pressure, or payoff as elfric calls it. Potence and True Conviction are part of the Academy Rector package that is in the list and I've actually had great success with True Conviction in closing out games faster. It eliminates the need to draw more Angels, Demons, or Dragons since each one I draw, with the Conviction on the field, yields more damage output.
Night's Whisper is a card I've forgotten about. Thanks for mentioning it! It easily replaces Spiteful Visions in this list as that card was mostly a placeholder for a card advantage piece.
@elfric
First, I will definitely respect you as the Master of Stax here on MTGSalvation. I tried looking for the Unholy Bible thread that you posted a long time ago and couldn't find it, for some reason. Thanks for chiming in and adding additional suggestions!
The list of Stax effects that are in the sideboard that come in and which cards in the maindeck that come out vary from game to game. Am I going up against Teferi, Damia, and Animar? Then By Force, Red Elemental Blast, and Aven Mindcensor come in and Spiteful Visions, Baneslayer Angel, and Vindicate come out.
In regards to the card choices that you mention, I'll go through and address each of them:
Thanks for the list of cards you suggest! Boil looks particularly appealing against the decks that Kaalia goes up against most often (Nekusar, Azami, Teferi, Animar, Damia), so that is a particularly niche card that looks useful.
In regards to the rest of your post, the game strategy does not resolve entirely around Geddon effects. Is it the most compact and efficient way for the deck to win? Yes, it is. However, there are really only 4 effective MLD effects that are useful and reasonably costed for a competitive game: Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, and Catastrophe. Even then, Catastrophe is still on the expensive side for what it does, so it's not run in this list. To supplement the MLD effects, and to increase the overall effectiveness of the deck, a hate-bear/Stax suite has been added to maximize the disruption against all opponents. I might note that I use the term 'Stax' very liberally, meaning any card that is blanket disruption to each of my opponents that is artifact, creature, or enchantment based. Stax, in my vernacular, is not confined to strictly mana denial strategies, though that is where the term should be used if I'm being correct.
The list of cards that add disruption to the deck that are 'STax-y' is pretty substantial: Cursed Totem, Defense Grid, Pithing Needle, Armageddon, Ravages of War, Cataclysm, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Stranglehold, Sire of Insanity, Rakdos the Defiler, Eidolon of Rhetoric, and Iona, Shield of Emeria are all very disruptive and hard to handle. Three of those cards I mention are indeed pay-off cards, but they are very effective at what they do and should be included in the list. I can't build a dedicated Stax list like your Tymna + Tana stax list because Kaalia does require cards in order for her to have a payout. Any less than 20 Angels, Demons, or Dragons alongside the tutors that are played and there are enough turns that pass where Kaalia doesn't have something to drop into play that the deck seriously loses effectiveness. Since I can't run a dedicated Stax deck, I need to implement as many of the most effective pieces of disruption that I can while still maximizing the payoff of Kaalia.
In my experience in playing with Kaalia, a heavy removal suite is just as effective against top-tier strategies as multiple-opponent affecting Stax cards, and the list reflects that. If I know which decks I'm playing against and what cards they need to effectively work (killing generals, even once, seems to be a major weakness to be exploited in my playgroup), than casting the disruption and the removal in the early turns of the game is a priority rather than casting Kaalia as quickly as possible. That's why Mizzium Mortars is in the list. It kills a T2 general, any creature based general, every time. The off-chance of wiping the board is useful, and adds additional value to the card, but is not the primary reason the card is played. If I can kill Animar even once, than the Animar deck is slowed down enough that Kaalia, the obviously slower general, can safely be cast and a single attack step secured. That single attack step is usually enough to apply constant pressure to the game that my opponent's are eventually overwhelmed. Kaalia is most effective because she is a massively threat-dense deck; nearly every creature is something that needs to be answered, and quickly, or the the creatures will quickly kill the player. Is she weak to mass creature removal? Of course. But so is nearly every other competitive EDH deck. Adding disruption and other Stax effects to the MLD effects only increases that effectiveness because of the way those cards slow down the game.
With that being said, and after looking at some other cEDH stax lists floating around, I do think that the density of Stax effects could be increased. I know I mention Winter Orb in my description, so I should probably add that. In total, the cards I will be adding to the Sideboard and Maindeck will be:
1 Boil
1 Desolation
1 Night's Whisper
1 Aure of Silence
1 Rule of Law
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I can chime in on the Nahiri, as I have had her in my list for a couple of weeks and maybe 20 or 30 games, and when I did not play her, she did not last more then a turn or two and I always had wished I had played something else. I really wanted her to work as her abilities were good, but we have other cards that propel Kaalia's theme better. I eventually took her out for Return to Dust and it has been about the same effect, sometimes better.
The decks that Kaalia plays against most often are mana-dork decks. Cursed Totem and Linvala, Keeper of Silence do way more work against my opponents than Null Rod and Stony Silence. The dis-synergy with my mana rocks is a little too much for me to accept. I am still very curious on how effective Blood Moon is because a lot of the decks are Tri-Color decks and it would brutally hose them down.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I have been having great luck with Blood Moon once it is cast. Most of the decks have been totally shut off until they got a basic, or a mana rock that produced the colors they needed.
I was going to pick up a Nether Void but I may have to wait, as its cost factor is quite high as I just picked up Ravages of War. I have tried some stax effects as suggested previously, and placed in Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and have seen some decent results from her as far as counters and other unsavory non-creatures.
I'm glad that you're having good results with Blood Moon. I've seen it pop up several times in other cEDH lists, even ones that are multiple colors. The mana screw it offers is legit, and is another pseudo-Armageddon effect that maximizes the land-destruction theme going on. I'll have to give it a try, after some testing of Overwhelming Splendor with Academy Rector. I suspect that it won't be as good as I want it to be, but it's freaking Nicol Bolas themed. Too freaking bad that Nicol Bolas is Grixis themed and not Mardu...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I also really like Wear/Tear and Hide/Seek for answers
And Red Blast/Pyroblast cause blue
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Hide/Seek and Wear/Tear are definitely good cards. I'll have to include them in the card choices section, but that will be forthcoming.
Pyroblast has already found a slot in the main-board, and REB is in the sideboard. There are a few niche instances where having either on the deck makes them dead draws, but there is always at least one U player at the table to justify at least the one anti-Blue slot.
I updated the OP to include a few more sections. I might apply for Primer status since the other Kaalia lists aren't very active anymore on MTGSalvation and my wife and I play enough games that I would have a regularly updated Primer. We'll see.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
// 14 Artifact
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Fire Diamond
1 Forcefield
1 Boros Signet
1 Marble Diamond
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Defense Grid
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Sol Ring
// 21 Creature
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Sun Titan
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Mother of Runes
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Karmic Guide
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Kaalia of the Vast
1 Necromancy
1 Land Tax
1 Animate Dead
1 Moat
1 Angelic Renewal
1 Phyrexian Arena
// 10 Instant
1 Mortify
1 Path to Exile
1 Condemn
1 Oblation
1 Chaos Warp
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tithe
1 Return to Dust
1 Skeletal Scrying
// 38 Land
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Blood Crypt
1 Plateau
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Maze of Ith
1 Godless Shrine
1 Lantern-Lit Graveyard
1 Scrubland
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Fetid Heath
1 High Market
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Graven Cairns
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Strip Mine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Arid Mesa
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Swamp
3 Mountain
3 Plains
1 Badlands
1 Catastrophe
1 Armageddon
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Night's Whisper
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Vindicate
1 Reanimate
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Cataclysm
Welcome to MTGSalvation, my friend! I took a look at your list and you have a surprising blend of cards in there. Would you like me to critique it and offer suggestions or are you simply posting to share ideas?
Moat is an awesome card in my particular meta. Kaalia is consistently the only deck that regularly has flyers, so Moat stops all attacks pretty conclusively. However, in a more general meta, I don't know if the card matters. Most people are going to kill the table with some sort of combo, so limiting which creatures can or cannot attack doesn't strike me as especially important. How has it performed for you?
I took out Karmic Guide and another card for Havoc Festival and Chancellor of the Annex. It's a great card to have in your opener and the consistent taxing effect is welcome as well. Frequently, our creatures dominate the table and don't die very often. They're usually exiled our bounced back to hand in some form or fashion, so the Guide was more often than not a useless card.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Reconaissance is a card I haven't looked at in a long time. I'll have to evaluate it more seriously, but my first thought is that it isn't necessary. Usually, in my experience, Kaalia is one of the few creatures that has flying on the board when she does come down. And if she isn't, I usually use one of the plethora of removal spells to remove said blocker out of the way. While it does protect Kaalia, it doesn't protect Kaalia in the way that I'd like it to. Kaalia dies to spot or mass removal or a counterspell; Reconaissance doesn't solve any of those problems. Have you seen the enchantment be useful?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
It allows you to cheat in your creature safely against anyone and you can untap kaalia and/or the cheated in creature before combat damage is dealt to avoid unfavorable blockers, after first strike damage is dealt but before normal combat damage, and/or after normal combat damage is dealt but prior to the end of the end of combat step for pseudo vigilance. This allows you to swing all out safely and still have every creature available as a blocker. All I can say is make room for it to give it a try and you'll never want to cut it.
I didn't even realize all the applications like that. I'll definitely test it out again.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
When I play Kaalia all I want is to other people just let me do my bussiness, in a 1v1 enviroment this is easy to acomplish and Kaalia is just sick, in a 3-4 player table the odds are against us because everyone in the table will fear us from the start.
I dont see Kaalia as a full stax commander, but I have been working in a decklist with good results, I don't drop the graveyard recursion but added this things
1) Grand abolisher with this dude in the field we are able to cast Kaalia, swing and be happy in our turn without worring about counters or removal, we can also cas freely our armageddon or cataclysm while we smile to the blue mage at our left.
2) War's toll, this may seem like not much... but... it works just fine and is a fair card, as I said when I play Kaalia all I want is to develop my gameplan without interruptions, this card forces our opponents to make a choice every turn, they can move forward to develop their gameplan or they can be at hold to try to riun our plan (or ayone elses), so The blue mage will be able to counter just ONE spell, the other players will be have to choose between making they proactive stuff or wait for us.
3) Winter orb and Static orb, more of the same of number 2, with this cards in play everyone has to evaluate how to play, if they want to move forward in their gameplan they better count that mana, I know how I want to spend mine, and I know how I want my opponents spent theirs (developing their plans without interfiring in mines)
4) Stranglehold another assymetrical card, I love it because 90% of the time my opponents HAVE to deal with it, I know this enchant wont last a lot but while it does, it holds a lot of stuff and.. shuts cmombos or annoying things like taking turns.
5) Aven mindcensor, this dude is great, is another dirty trick (but fair), for 3cmc we have a 2/1 body, a great effect, a great removal bait, a bloquer or even a warrior with the Umezawa's jitte equipped
6) Hushwing Gryff, I am tired of stupid things doing stupid stuff like acidic slime, eternal witness, snapcaster mage and things like that, so the next time an opponent casts such cards we have our very best counter, attached off course to a 2/1 flying body that screams to be removed (removal against hatebears mens less for kaalia or fatties)
7) Apostle's blessing and faith's shield, may seem reactive but for just one single mana we can protect everything we need, our fatties, our lady, our enchants, our artifacts, I have never EVER draw one of this cards and wasn't happy about it.
8) reverberate I can't say how much value this card has every single time I drew it, so you cast a counterspell OK, ill counter your counter, ohh, you want to draw with harmonize well, thanks for the 3 cards.
I won't talk about my other cards because they are not STAX oriented, I play a good set of reanimation package, 6-7 spot removal and off course our beloved fatties.
If you think there are other cards that will help the strategy "keep you focus on your game and leave me alone" plz share it
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
I agree with your statement that Kaalia is not a full-on Stax commander. I certainly don't run enough Stax pieces to be correctly classified as a Stax deck. But there is a sold suite of Stax-y cards that help slow down our opponents' game plans enough to allow us an opportunity to cast Kaalia and turn her sideways. I will reiterate that when I use the term Stax within a post, I don't necessarily mean any card that forces an opponent to lose resources a la Smokestack. I'm talking more generally about cards that restrict my opponent from executing their game plan. In my opinion, Rule of Law is a Stax card. Aven Mindcensor is more of a Stax card than a hate-bear in my mind. Stranglehold is another good example of what I would consider a Stax card. Perhaps I'm incorrectly using the term as it's been previously defined, but I am trying to run a robust suite of cards that diminish my opponents' ability from executing their game plan.
As the general strategy section attempts to describe, Kaalia isn't the fastest deck at the table normally. So we need to bring our opponents to the same pace, if not slower, in order to be truly effective. Stax cards are the best way to do this, from my observations and experience.
I think the list of cards that you've included in your deck is a strong inclusion. I think Apostle's Blessing is an interesting inclusion and definitely worth a good look since spot removal is most definitely the more effective means of removal against Kaalia that can occur. War's Toll isn't the most relevant card in my opinion, and if I were trying to stop U/x mages from interacting with me I would probably run Price of Glory instead. It's cheaper in CMC and is way more deadly against people who are trying to play on others' turns.
I feel obligated to tell you that the strategy of "Leave me alone and play your own game" is not what this particular decklist is trying to do. It's more of a "SCREW your game plan, kill ALL your creatures, destroy your resources, and kill you dead". There is no incentive for opponents to leave us alone with the cards that are being played here. So, the strategy is more careful than a Kaalia deck might normally be. There are of course opportunities where you can windmill slam Kaalia into play on T2 or T3 and begin to obliterate the table, but the primary strategy is to kill all the things and restrict your opponent's from doing anything productive in executing their strategy. Then, when they're trying to figure out how to get past your Aven Mindcensor from restricting their game-winning tutor, you then cast Kaalia and begin to wreck the board. Kaalia is already going to be drawing the attention of the table. I decided to lean into that reputation and make her even more of a threat by ante-ing up the amount of ruthless cards being played. And sadly, Kaali is sometimes still not the biggest threat at the table.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Upon further reflection of this deck's performance and some changes in my playgroup, there are some card choices that I think need to be updated and included in the main decklist now. Steel Hellkite, Rest in Peace, Rule of Law, Aura of Silence, and Lightning Bolt are all looking more attractive as my playgroup progresses. The Azami player in our group recently dismantled it in favor of building The TrueNub's Arcum Dagsson list. This, in conjunction with my own Teferi and Memnarch lists, makes the mentioned cards very attractive for the way that they can interact with each deck.
Rule of Law shuts down Animar, Teferi, Arcum, Edric, and Freyalise; Rest in Peace puts a hard stop to Arcum Dagsson; Lightning Bolt kills all of the generals this deck faces at various stages, being particularly useful against Teferi, Arcum, and Animar; Aura of Silence is point spot removal for The Chain Veil, Paradox Engine, or Memnarch while also taxing resources for enchantments and artifacts; and Steel Hellkite is a repeatable wrath effect that is very effective at taking out artifact mana bases (most mana-rocks cluster at CMC 1 or CMC 2 in my playgroup).
EDIT:
I added Rule of Law and Steel Hellkite, taking out Havoc Festival and Master of Cruelties. I believe that these changes will help shore up the decklist against the new, and very effective, Arcum Dagsson list that was recently created.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I have been following this primer for some time now and wanted to commend you on your work.
I have copied your decklist almost identically. Thanks to your hard work and research I can safely say that I've been having some good results. I was looking around for a good Kaalia primer, and when I found yours I could see that this deck was doing exactly what I wanted from a Kaalia deck, and more!
I wanted to ask your advice because I am at somewhat of a dilemma. Out of your decklist I have made only a couple of small changes, and wanted to get your opinion if you recommend them or think I would be better suited doing something else.
The changes I have made to the decklist are as follows:
Pyroblast - Replaced with Teferi's Protection - I felt like some extra protection could help but I want to get an opinion on this change/if Pyroblast is the right card to be taking out for this change. In my playgroup Kaalia is a known threat and she always gets targeted, which is why I opted for this card.
Damnation - Replaced with Wrath of God - Because it's cheaper, not really much of a change here folks.
Grim Monolith - Replaced with Dark ritual - This too was done due to cost. But I feel like Dark Ritual could be more useful since we don't really plan to untap the Grim Monolith after its initial use and Dark Ritual produces black mana and is cheaper to cast than Grim Monolith which only produces colorless and is 1 more to cast.
Nether Void - Replaced with Master of Cruelties - Ok so hear me out here. If i could afford it then Nether Void would be in the deck for sure. But since $500USD is slightly more than I would feel comfortable spending on a single card, I can't include it in my own version of the deck. That being said I am aware that I am replacing a valuable stax piece with a creature which may not be recommended. Do you have any suggestions on what kind of stax piece I could replace Nether Void with if i wasn't going to replace it with Master of Cruelties. I've been thinking maybe Blood Moon/Aura of Silence/Damping Matrix/Catastrophe. Maybe even Sensei's Divining Top or Sword of Feast and Famine/Darksteel Plate for more protection?
On that note, Master of Cruelties is a card I want to include in the deck - I know it's kind of douchey but having the possibility of one shotting someone is too sweet for me to pass up. So if there was a creature in your list you think the deck could do without in order to make room for Master of Cruelties what would your suggestion be? Or do you think that the list of creatures you have are better suited to victory and removing one for the Master of Cruelties would be a mistake?
Thank you if you took the time to read this and thank you even more if you take the time to reply.
Welcome to the Forums! I've been on a hiatus because of my job in a startup company, which has been super busy and rewarding.
First, thanks for your kind words! I put a lot of thought into making it, and I'm glad it helped someone! Let me respond to your thoughts in turn:
Pyroblast is a card that is more specifically suited to the playgroup in which my wife plays most frequently. If Teferi's Protection is a better fit for your meta, I say go for it. The ability to Vindicate pretty much any permanent on the board is super useful, hence the 'Blast's inclusion in the deck.
Grim Monolith is useful because it DOES offer the ability to untap in case there is an opportunity to do so. While it is very unlikely that we will, it does help bridge the gap in casting our Angels/Demons/Dragons more consistently than Dark Ritual. However, in view of your budget, I think that Dark Ritual is a fine replacement. It allows a T2/T3 Kaalia, just like the Monolith does. It also allows a one-time casting of an Angel/Demon/Dragon, which is its primary purpose. I might also recommend Worn Powerstone as well.
Damnation is a color-shifted Wrath of God. Either/Or is acceptable as long as your mana base is decently consistent in generating the color requirements.
Nether Void is a card that is played only in competitive circles. And it's not necessary 100% for the deck to function well. However, it is absolutely BACK-BREAKING against competitive decks that operate on thin mana margins. An extra 3 is pretty much a hard-lock for most decks, and helps to close the door on the game that you're involved in. I recommend that you slot in a card advantage piece or another piece of Stax. Of the card choices that you suggested, I would recommend Aura of Silence or Catastrophe.
However, this new set has brought some incredible new cards to play with. The one that screams to me is Demonlord Belzenlok. It seems custom made for Kaalia in every way. It generates Card Advantage, is a Demon, AND hits hard. I actually have a new decklist that I'll be posting here shortly that reflects some of the new changes and cards that have been spoiled.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I've thought a lot about the new cards, and the two that stand out most significantly are Lyra Dawnbringer and Demonlord Belzenlok. Dawnbringer is not as much of an auto-include as the Demon, but both are FANTASTIC additions to Kaalia.
I have a slightly more budget list that is also a [i[little[/i] more casual as well. One of the things I've noticed is that Kaalia can run out of gas without certain cards in play. Necropotence is almost absolutely vital in maintaining a good game pace and strategy execution. Anyways, I plan to update the OP to reflect the new cards and some updates in game strategy.
4x Kaalia of the Vast
Mana (11)
0x Mana Crypt
0x Mox Diamond
1x Sol Ring
2x Talisman of Indulgence
2x Rakdos Signet
2x Orzhov Signet
2x Boros Signet
2x Coldsteel Heart
2x Charcoal Diamond
2x Marble Diamond
3x Worn Powerstone
Tutors (5)
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Demonic Tutor
3x Sarkhan’s Triumph
4x Diabolic Tutor
Angels/Demons/Dragons (24)
4x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
5x Bloodgift Demon
5x Lyra Dawnbringer
5x Karmic Guide
5x Archangel Avacyn
6x Demonlord Belzenlok
6x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
6x Aurelia, the Warleader
6x Hellkite Tyrant
6x Steel Hellkite
6x Rakdos the Defiler
6x Sire of Insanity
7x Angel of Serenity
7x Angel of Despair
7x Rune-Scarred Demon
7x Balefire Dragon
7x Gisela, Glade of Goldnight
7x Lord of the Void
7x Chancellor of the Annex
7x Dragon Mage
8x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
8x Razaketh, the Foulblooded
8x Scourge of Kher Ridges
9x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Cursed Totem
3x Rule of Law
4x Stranglehold
4x Cataclysm
4x Armageddon
5x Fall of the Thran
Card Draw (7)
2x Night’s Whisper
2x Sign in Blood
3x Painful Truths
3x Necropotence
3x Phyrexian Arena
3x Tymna the Weaver
4x Ambition’s Cost
Removal (8)
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Pyroblast
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Wear // Tear
3x Toxic Deluge
3x Vindicate
3x Council’s Judgment
4x Damnation
Utility (4)
2x Grand Abolisher
2x Dragon Tempest
2x Lightning Greaves
4x Quicksilver Amulet
Lands (35)
1x Volrath’s Stronghold
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Mana Confluence
1x Command Tower
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Badlands
1x Scrubland
1x Plateau
1x Blood Crypt
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Godless Shrine
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Graven Cairns
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Fetid Heath
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Windswept Heath
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Plains
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Morbid Curiosity is a fantastic card in this list. It usually draws upwards of 5+ cards every time it's cast, so it gets the nod over Ambition's Cost. More often than not, we have a creature we can sacrifice to keep the card advantage flowing, and this card is surprisingly effective.
Diabolic Tutor hasn't really helped the deck either. There's usually enough card advantage going that this card is usually redundant. But I am missing more Stax pieces. Fall of the Thran is much more expensive than I thought it would be, so it's getting cut as well. In their places, I'll add back Harvester of Souls and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. These are cards that have performed in the past that have been missed in playtesting. Worn Powerstone has been performing well enough, but I'd rather replace it with another Kaalia target, in the form of Archfiend of Despair. I anticipate that this card will DRASTICALLY shorten the clock for our opponents while also providing a nice bit of Hate with its denial of Life-gain. Lastly, Aven Mindcensor and Ob Nixilis, Unshackled are wanting back in as well. With the advent of a land ramp deck in our playgroup, punishing library-search effects is a must. Sign in Blood's double black cost has been difficult at times, so we'll see if removing a piece of card advantage for another hate-piece is a good switch. I'll be updating the OP list shortly.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4x Kaalia of the Vast
Mana Sources (13)
1x Sol Ring
2x Talisman of Indulgence
2x Boros Signet
2x Orzhov Signet
2x Rakdos Signet
2x Fellwar Stone
2x Fire Diamond
2x Marble Diamond
2x Charcoal Diamond
2x Coldsteel Heart
2x Generator Servant
3x Worn Powerstone
5x Gilded Lotus
Angels/Demons/Dragons (32)
4x Gisela, the Broken Blade
4x Rakdos, Lord of Riots
5x Bloodgift Demon
5x Archfiend of Depravity
5x Archangel Avacyn
5x Karmic Guide
6x Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
6x Demonlord Belzenlok
6x Harvester of Souls
6x Kothophed, Soul-Hoarder
6x Rakdos the Defiler
6x Mordant Dragon
6x Steel Hellkite
6x Hellkite Tyrant
6x Hoard-Smelter Dragon
6x Angelic Skirmisher
7x Angel of Despair
7x Angel of Serentiy
7x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
7x Emeria Shepherd
7x Bruna, the Fading Light
7x Overseer of the Damned
7x Lord of the Void
7x Rune-Scarred Demon
7x Dragon Mage
7x Thunder Dragon
7x Skyline Despot
8x Archfiend of Despair
8x Scourge of Kher Ridges
8x Utvara Hellkite
8x Razaketh, the Foulbooded
9x Reya Dawnbringer
1x Swords to Plowshares
2x Mizzim Mortars
2x Terminate
3x Vindicate
3x Anguished Unmaking
3x Wear // Tear
3x Crackling Doom
4x Day of Judgment
Card Draw/Advantage (7)
2x Night’s Whisper
3x Painful Truths
3x Morbid Curiosity
3x Read the Bones
4x Ambition’s Cost
4x Disciple of Bolas
5x Promise of Power
Utility (5)
2x Dragon Tempest
2x Lightning Greaves
2x Boros Charm
4x Armageddon
4x Quicksilver Amulet
Lands (35)
1x Command Tower
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Wind-Scarred Crag
1x Bloodfell Caves
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Boros Garrison
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Temple of Silence
1x Temple of Malice
1x Temple of Triumph
5x Mountain
6x Plains
6x Swamp
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager