Well, hello there. This deck list is the first that I've made. And I'm quite proud of sharing it with everyone (finally). The deck that I'm talking about is my second ever EDH deck and my first multi-player deck to boot. And after so long working on it, tweaking it, trying to smooth out the rough parts and finding what works, I've finally made this fat and sassy lady into something that will strike fear in the hearts of your play group. And yet, be fun for both you and your soon to be victims.
I first started playing Magic back in '94 or so. It was a small playgroup of myself, a few of my brothers, and a few of our friends. Basic kitchen table Magic. Green stompy, Red burn, old school mono black discard, a few of the old school 100 card Highlander decks. You know, Same as everyone else. Well, we got older, some of us moved away and I ended up quitting back in '98. Well, eventually one thing after another and a few years ago I ended up moving in with one of my cuz's who played EDH. He'd have some of his friends over and they drink and play. After they found out that I used to play they put a deck in my hands and caught me up to speed on everything that changed in the 15 or so years that I've been gone. Lets just say that I got hooked. I went out, put together my first baby piece by piece and played 1v1 with whoever was game. After a few months, I wanted to make a multi-player deck and hopefully not blow as much money as I did with my first deck. So I was like... RG That's always nice on your wallet, and there are always good cards. So after a bit of thought, I picked up a Wort, the Raidmother (honestly cause it was like under a buck. lol) and grabbed the bulk burn and ramp at the store. Let's just say that it was... Not the best idea that I've ever had..
Then Theros came out and everything changed.
My deck was already playing with finding ways to make tokens to copy my spells. Trying to find that nice balance of tokens, ramp, removal, and burn. Still not doing much. I might be able to take out one person, sometimes if I was lucky I'd take out two. But pulling off a full win never happened. Then I saw THIS BEAST and what is left of my brain started working... R - Has the main wincon, has money hate, has a combo monkey, and loves tokens G - Has ramp, ramp, and token love GR - Has spells to copy that make tokens!!!!
Since then, I've been working on this deck going with a "all in combo" mindset. Looking at it. After a while, I started looking at a few more ways to win. All out token swarms (that didn't work too well. Really needs either a more dedicated aggro approach to make it work). Then I started finding ways to take advantage of what it already does. Yes, I have way too many combos in here, But lately, just flat out combo doesn't work the best. So I'm going with a combo deck that will win from the interactions that naturally happen before I can combo out. Mostly, I'm just trying to have a deck that I can sit down with, have a few (or more, honestly) drinks with my friends, and have fun. The fact that I can also go to a random LGS, sit down with a few high tier decks, and pull out an upset win a few times. With that in mind, I've taken someofthereally unfair things out but you still have some wtf just happened plays to make all day, every day. That I've worked to make the main focus of the deck not be around combos (while still keeping a ton in the deck) has lead to a better deck that isn't afraid of the U mage holding a counterspell in hand.
Due to popular demand, I've created two more decklists to use. They can both be found on the second post of this thread. One is a very budget version even though most would consider this current list to be budget. The second deck is what happens when you really desire to only concentrate on combos. I created the list owing to not running every combo I can think of in the current list, owing to rather focus on other ways to win. That I have 3 deck lists goes to show just how powerful of a commander we have on our hands.
Lets start out with the awesomness of the commander herself. She's a 3/3 for 4 . That means that she has a ok-ish body and if you really wanted to, I guess that you could run her in a otherwise monored or a monogreen deck if you really wanted. We are running green so we don't need to worry about her being a 6 drop at first. And we can likely keep casting her all game long as well. Her type is Goblin Shaman so there is a tribal thing that you could use. To an extent we do. But now... Lets look at her other abilities...
--When Wort, the Raidmother enters the battlefield, put two 1/1 red and green Goblin Warrior creature tokens onto the battlefield.--
So... That's awesome. Like all ladies, she travels in packs (insert your fav pack of girls going to the bathroom at one time joke here). For us, this means that when we get her in play, she won't be alone at the worst case. That is important due to her next ability...
--Each red or green instant or sorcery spell you cast has conspire. (As you cast the spell, you may tap two untapped creatures you control that share a color with it. When you do, copy it and you may choose new targets for the copy.)--
Now we're getting somewhere!!! That means that, with Wort out, we get double out of all the spells that we cast. The big spells that we cast just win us the game, but more importantly, same with our smaller early game spells are still awesome. It also makes it more worth it to run our spell based ramp instead of shinny rocks. They have roughly the same effect without Wort, but twice the effect with her. Not to mention that in most play groups and LGS's, while spot land destruction is ok and needed, Mass Land Destruction (commonly called MLD) is usually frowned on. So your ramp is safer then having a signet of the like. Not to mention that it is slight deck thinning as well.
As I said earlier, Purphoros, God of the Forge was the main reason why I dropped the burn. After looking at some of the ways to abuse him like a unwanted baby, I noticed that a lot of decks used Krenko, Mob Boss. And that led to a combo build. Eventually, I went with using combos and finding ways to get value off of what I was doing anyhoo. I started finding some really fun cards that fit that role.. Untapping, tapping, ETB and LTB stuff. Tokens are nothing more then resources to you! And I guessss you could just use them to swarm over your opponents and steal their wallets and shoes.
Ok, you've made it this far. Now, the questions that you should be asking yourself is, why this deck list You might enjoy this list if...
You like combos
You like tokens
You don't mind killing off your own board for the greater good.
You love ramp.
You love having a deck that works well with it's commander, but doesn't need her to win.
You like not needing to attack to win.
You think that "just doing" 10,000 damage in one turn to a table is "fair"
You don't need to be tutoring or drawing your deck like a stupid B or U mage.
You like to randomly win.
You like running an unexpected commander.
You like running a commander in a different way then anyone expects.
You like basic lands
You like to punish others for running non basic lands
You might not have fun with this list if
You need to play control.
You can't play unless you're doing the same thing ever single last game!
You don't want everyone else to have fun (like all the BUW mages out there)
You feel lost if you can't play reanimator
You hate goblins and puppies.
You don't feel like a deck is good if you are running basic lands only
Omnath, Locus of Rage - This guy is nice. With all the ramp that we run, he can spit out an army in a heartbeat. Also works to punish wraths. But all he does is spit out tokens. And only his type of tokens so we're limited in what we're doing. Not to mention he doesn't work as well for combo.
Ulasht, the Hate Seed - Same as above. And he wants tokens out before you play him. I could see him working, but not like this deck can.
Rosheen Meanderer - Most Wort decks could be happy with him at the helm. Not us though. We have only 3 spells that work with his ability. If we were burn, maybe. This ain't burn though.
Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter/Rhys the Redeemed - I've ran both. If correctly built, they can spit out tokens so much faster then us... And usually bigger then us as well. But they lack haste and our ways of not needing to move to combat. All the elfball decks out there also fall into this issue as well.
Krenko, Mob Boss/Purphoros, God of the Forge/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - These decks are all the same really. And guess what? We're better! We are using all their tricks and cutting the fat out and adding our toys. Not to mention, they draw ALL the hate right off the bat.
Rith, the Awakener/Tana, the Bloodsower - They both suffer from the same issue. They have to swing in. Granted, they are nuts with the boards they can have, but no thank you
Marath, Will of the Wild/Hazezon Tamar/Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - These 3 decks are what you're looking for if you want tokens. Honestly, they tend to be faster, and they use our gameplan. Thing is though... You are likely just putting a huge target on your head. Or drawing a bit more removal then you want to deal with. Also, you end up taking away combo for utility. I can't complain. I currently run Marath and recently retired Prossh.
Riku of Two Reflections - Ok... This deck if it wanted to can just do us better (esp if they slot Wort in as one of the 99). But what is it that we can do better? We don't need to pay extra mana if we want to copy something. That's actually a big deal. Also, we rarely have to pay attention to the color of mana that we're tapping. They do. They are color thirsty as hell. So a Blood Moon card tends to kill them with ease.
Mind you, if you're creative enough, you can always find a way to use almost any piece in a different group. Don't think that just cause one card is listed as one thing, you can't use it in another way. Almost every card can be used as combo or utility or token creation or ramp. Just want to point that out.
Well, my little buddy... You've made it this far. You've seen the deck. Now, I know that you are a smart person. So, you might be asking yourself just what mind mage messed with my head and made me choose these cards?!?! Fair enough question. Here's my answer.
Lands Kessig Wolf Run
Any deck that runs GR should run this. Really, it's that good. It's an unexpected wincon with this deck. Either buff a token, or live the dream and smash for the 21. Also fun to use with Basilisk Collar if you're bleeding out like a U mage without a counterspell in hand.
Snow-Covered Forest
21 Snow-Covered Forest. This deck wants it's G as soon as it can. We use them for ramp. All the ramp. Most of our ramp only targets basic lands so we want to be able to hit them. And there are a few cards here that pay attention to the number that we have so Also, we run money hate so we don't want to get screwed by it.
Snow-Covered Mountain
12 Snow-Covered Mountain. We don't need that many. We can either grab what we need with our ramp, or just naturally draw into it. If you are one of those poor souls that just have to run duals, replace Mountains with them. That way, if you have a 'moon effect out, you aren't hurt as much. Though I have issues with that type of knee-jerk reaction.
Creatures Goblin Chirurgeon
A R all goodstuff piece of utility. Can be used as a free sac outlet and protection for the few creatures that we actually care about. The more that you see him, the more broken he gets. And did I mention free sac outlet!!!
Skirk Prospector
Yet again, another R goodstuff creature. Another free sac outlet that does more then that. it ramps!!! One of the main tools in our combos. Never sad to see his ugly face.
Firebrand Archer
So... This deck really loves to gain value off of doing everything that it already does. This new piece is doing that. Think of it as being another Guttersnipe. less is a plus. Not a goblin. Smaller body. Only half the damage but triggers on over twice as many times. Loves Basilisk Collar.
Goblin Recruiter
This is one of the most powerful creatures in the entire deck. It allows for a stupidly early kill-the-table combo. One of the more common paths to victory and a reason why we can still fight against getting locked out of G. Also, a good-ish Tooth & Nail target I guess.
Goblin Sharpshooter
Utility. Also can be used in a few combos. Takes out other players' token swarms. And of course, he loves his Basilisk Collar. Pulls his weight in here enough to hold a slot.
Guttersnipe
This guy does a surprising amount of work. Granted, he doesn't trigger off of the conspired copy, but I guess you can't win them all. Usually he just draws removal due to your opponents getting sick of getting pinged for a minor amount whenever you ramp. He's saved my butt a few times when I was lucky enough to slap a Basilisk Collar on him and ramp a few times (6 player FFA). Also loves being out there when you are recasting Sprout Swarm a few times.
Magus of the Moon Money hate on a stick! Really... This and his buddy Blood Moon have saved me at way too many LGS's that I've walked in. Has been known to cause rage quits. If you sit down at a table with everyone else playing tier 1 decks and you have this in your opening hand, you're likely to win. Oh, your land base alone is worth more then this entire deck? I don't stand a chance.... One of the main reasons why I run a lot of basics in all my decks now... I've been screwed by someone playing this card before. -(note, just added Ruination to the list of money hate as of 6/9/17)
Goblin Ringleader
Part two of our likely wincon. Goblin Recruiter into this usually means game over. See combo section for more info.
Krenko, Mob Boss
You know when I said that we don't need our commander to win? Yeah... This is one of the reasons. This beady eyed guy is one of our "secondary commanders". Anyone that knows what he does will panic the second they see him. Dropping him turn 3 isn't unheard of. And all he needs is a turn or two and he can take an entire table out by himself. We have all the tools in the deck that are used when he's his own Commander besides the things that G just does better.
Lightning Crafter
Combo piece. Removal. And wrath protection. This guy does it all. Usually used as a wincon. Loves Basilisk Collar
Oracle of Mul Daya G goodstuff. Really should be in any and every deck that runs G. I can't sing her praises enough. Ramps more then you'd expect. Gets those lands off your topdeck so you can get to the rest. In that way, she works as limited card draw for you.
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Secondary commander #2. This guy is broken as hell. Nothing that anyone can say will convince me otherwise. All wincon here. When you are spitting out as many tokens as we are, this guy will kill off the entire table in the blink of an eye. Tooth and Nail will grab him and Avenger of Zendikar for a GG out of nowhere. Try not to turn him on to keep him safe. But if he's live, slap a Basilisk Collar on him and go to town! Even if you don't win that second, you'll likely gain enough life to put you ahead for the rest of the game.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
And finally, secondary commander #3. All combo, all the time. Thankfully, he comes with haste already, cause he won't survive longer then a turn. So broken. So good. Yeah... See the combo section for more detail why he's boss here.
Avenger of Zendikar Tooth and Nail target #2. In this deck, it'll rarely give a pump to it's tokens. Usually the table dies before the next land drop you get . There's a reason why he's been nicknamed "Army in a can". Loves Kiki and Twin. Artifacts Basilisk Collar
Nifty card in this deck. One of the few ways to deal with the table. Really loves getting put on Goblin Sharpshooter, Siege-Gang Commander and Guttersnipe.
Skullclamp
Broken card in this deck. Anyone that has played tokens runs this. It's one of the best ways to get card advantage printed. I'll gladly pay 1 and a token to draw 2 cards. Any and all token decks run this.
Illusionist's Bracers
One of the weaker of my combo pieces. Might get cut one of these days, but for now is worth the slot. Usually just one activation of this on Krenko, Mob Boss gives you an army. Also loves most of your other goblins.
Swiftfoot Boots
The hexproof comes in handy every once in a while, but we try to not get too attached to any one creature. I mostly just use it for the haste.
Throne of the God-Pharaoh
This is a new toy for us. I'm trying to find other ways to win besides just comboing out or swarming the table. Even just attacking one person with a few tokens pays off at end of turn. Also works well with Cryptolith Rite, Earthcraft and Kyren Negotiations.
Ashnod's Altar
Sac outlet. Combo piece. Ramp. Yep, never coming out of here.
Hammer of Purphoros
Haste is good. Haste is very good. I don't think that I've ever used the other ability in a game.
Phyrexian Altar All star!!! Really. This card does everything that we want. Free sac outlet. Ramp. Combo piece. There's a reason why it keeps going up in $$$.
Staff of Domination
This card does it all. There's a reason why it used to be banned. Not sad in the slightest that I have it in my deck. It wins games.
Umbral Mantle
Funny thing... This combo tool just may put in more work then either Staff of Domination or Thornbite Staff in this deck. Also, once allowed me to punch someone in the face with my commander for the win (don't expect it, but the chance is there). Instants Sprout Swarm
Yes, I know. You laugh that I'm running it. I don't care. It will always do more work then anyone expects. Helps us recover from wraths and one of the few tools to fight against board stalls. Can't see ever taking it out. Try it and you'll see.
Harrow
You know... For the longest time, I never noticed that this was an instant. For real. But anyhoo. Solid piece of ramp. If you can cast it with your commander out it gets so much better.
Sorceries Sylvan Offering
One of our token producing spells. We don't care if we give tokens to other players. Mostly just care about the 1/1's. The big treefolk aren't exactly what we are looking for but they can be used as a board presence.
Tempt with Vengeance
Same as above. Trade off a big one for haste. Usually will get more tokens as well.
Goblin Offensive
More tokens!! We love this spell. Conspire makes it broken
Beacon of Creation
More tokens!! And because we can stuff it back into our deck, we can play it early to get us some chumps and play it again when we want to win. Also yet another reason why we run so many forests.
Harmonize
Card draw. Very helpful after you dumped your hand on all your starting ramp. This will give you a refill that you'll need. Also, very awesome if you conspire it.
Ruination
Money hate. New inclusion. I guess the other two pieces didn't get the point across quite enough. There are a lot of decks that are bad match ups against us. Money hate is (after much testing) a far more effective answer to them then trying to play their game. Also quite underused. R always gets talked about like it's the worst color in EDH. That's because nobody is willing to use the tools that it has.
One Dozen Eyes
More tokens!! We love this spell. Conspire makes it broken. Not to mention that it can also bring beef.
Goblin Bombardment
What to do when you have a bilzillion tokens? You throw them at your opponents' face like a boss!!! (bonus points if you actually flick the tokens at their face). Also a way to take out more then a few problem creatures. Don't forget. Your tokens, hell, all your creatures are nothing more then resources and tools for you to use. This is a free sac outlet. And if you have an army on the table and someone tries to wrath, this will punish them.
Blood Moon
Did you pay attention to what I said about Magus of the Moon? Same thing here. You trade off a body for making it a bit harder to get rid of. -(note, I just added Ruination to this list to help get the point across as of 6/9/17)
Warstorm Surge
We might as well get some more use out of our tokens entering the battlefield. You can throw the damage at someone's facehole or take out creatures. Your choice. This is one of the few decks that can get use out of this card.
Vicious Shadows
You know how most ppl deal with token decks? They wrath. Over and over until said token deck runs out of steam. This card is the answer to that tactic. I've played this card, the table forgets about it, someone clears the board.... I point out that they just took everyone out Not to mention that we'll be sac'ing our tokens anyhoo so it's all win. Planeswalkers Xenagos, the Reveler
Currently, I'm only running Xenagos, the Reveler here. And it's broken as hell!!! No Joke!!! The +1 is all the ramp, the +0 spawns a body. We'll never use the ult unless we need Goblin Ringleader and it already died on us.
So. You now have this awesome decklist. Now, how do I run it you ask? Why are you asking me? Oh yeah, I'm the one writting this.
...
Ok... So... These nice people with the pitchforks and blunt objects are saying that I didn't give enough info to you guys. Hmmm.... Can I just be lazy and send you to other primers that are also using some of these combos? No? *sigh* ok everyone, grab a seat...
It's around this time that I would tell you to start off playing a bunch of goldfish games first. While once you get a hang of the deck, it's reflex, but until then, you will have to learn to pay attention to both triggers and what you have out. There are more ways to combo off then you are likely used to and not all of them show themselves at first. The main idea that you will be trying to do is abusing these things as much as you can. Whenever you can.
Ramp.
Enter the battlefield triggers.
Leave the battlefield triggers.
Using the tokens themselves as ramp, conspire fodder, blockers, and attackers if needed.
Really. With this deck, you have 3 ways to win. The first way to try to get one of your combo engines up and running. That's cool and all. Probably the easiest way to victory. And always nice to pull out when the game is going a bit too long. The second way to win is by slowly chipping away at the board a bit at a time. Using your ETB/LTB effects isn't as big and splashy as combo. But I found that it tends to have the highest margins of victory. Not to mention that the pieces used in that method are usually considered "low priority" for counterspelling or removal. The third way to win is by *sigh* swinging an army at them. Or, barring that, swing in for the 21. Neither of those plans are fun for me. Well... swinging a bazillion tokens at someone can cause me to smile. But I consider that a last choice thing.
-Please note-
This deck runs money hate. For those who don't know what that is, money hate are cards that punish effects that are usually found in cards that hold a higher price then normal. We don't run the anti-tutor versions of those cards, but we go after their land bases. In this way, we don't need to run utility lands like Strip Mine to take care of any problematic lands. To make sure that our money hate doesn't affect us, we use basic lands (right now, snow basic lands). I have tried to run dual's and utility lands instead of money hate. After much testing, I have found that running the hate just works better then having the "better mana base". Not to mention that our money hate won't just even the odds. Against the best decks out there, we can lock them out of the game at turn 3. Usually, we won't be able to fully lock out a table even if we drop Blood Moon turn 3, but, we can send them behind around 6-8 turns on average due to it taking that long for the table to get a cast able answer. It's mean of us, yes. But at least we aren't trying to do infinite turns or other b.s. like that.
So. You drew your opening 7. What are you looking for? You are looking for a forest, 1-2 other lands, and 1-2 ramp spells. That's what we want. Anything else is just gravy. Toss any hands that don't have that. I would also think about getting rid of any hand that has more then one 5cmc card but your mileage may vary. You don't need much. The deck is built so that you'll naturally draw into anything that you want and/or need. Between the ramp that this deck has and how low the CMC for the deck in it's entirety is, you should be good no matter what.
The first few turns, you're just going to ramp. And usually dump your entire hand. That's about it. Don't worry about anything really. Let the other people at the table establish a board presence. It's no real issue to you. You want to be seen doing stuff, but not being the #1 target. Try to not piss anyone out. Until mid game, you're likely going to take some damage. Oh well. Just play your hand. Try to get stuff out on the field. For some reason, having a bare board makes someone a target for an entire table. Get a creature out, or even use up a token generating spell. Drop a few artifacts or enchantments. Something, anything. Well... There's 4 cards that I wouldn't play. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Goblin Recruiter, and Goblin Ringleader. Kiki will normally die without doing anything. Recruiter and Ringleader will 99% of the time just hose you due to you not having enough mana or pieces to take advantage of either of them. Big daddy P makes you THE target and it's too early to take advantage of him enough. You can usually either lie low for people to not target you or hide in plain sight by talking to everyone. Depends on your soon to be victims and your skills and personality. As always your mileage may vary depending on yourself and the meta. There is one thing that I must point out. If you have an early game Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon, ignore what I said about being careful to not piss the table off!! Play it as soon as you can!!! While yes, it may piss off the table, it's likely to shut them down for a good part of the game if not the entire game so they won't be able to do anything about it. Really, money hate is one of the two reasons why we run all basics besides Kessig Wolf Run (and if you just happen to have a spare one laying around Gaea's Cradle ). I've tried running non basics in here and it's backfired due to those effects. I'd much rather have a basic land base and keep my money hate. Money hate just shuts down so many other decks. Esp the decks that we have problems with. The other reason why we run all basics is that a lot of our ramp spells find basics. And even considering that we don't need every single land on the board, if our commander isn't shut down, it can happen soon. I never liked being turn ten or so, casting a ramp and cause I had duals and the like, having to say "failed to find". Early game is until you have 6 mana every turn.
Ok.. So you have your 6 mana... What next?
Just play it out. Go ahead and play Wort if you want to. Or that is usually the first thing you try to do once you have the mana for it. It's what the table expects from us anyhoo, so we might as well make them happy. Doesn't hurt us much if she gets countered or removed. Getting removed in most cases is better though. At least that way you still have her tokens. I tried my best (and think that I did damm well too) so that if we couldn't cast Wort or keep her out, it wouldn't be good game for us. Most other Wort decks just tend to flop around like a fish on dry land if they can't copy their spells. This one doesn't. Though, if she stays out, try casting something. Anything that we cast is going to hit like a brick to the face. At this point, anything she does will take 2 counterspells to fully stop (they have to counter both the original and the copy). If you get a ramp out with her, congrats. You just pulled ahead. Go you!
Well, what happens if she doesn't stick? Wait till you have the mana for it and cast her again. It'll help bait out counterspells and removal. We can usually keep casting her all game long if needed. or until we find something better to do. And if they manage to keep her off the field, then what do we do? Easy!!! Just keep playing whatever you have. It doesn't matter. The deck is built so that stuff works together in almost any order or combination with or without the commander. If she's out, all the better, if not, oh well. At this point you might want to go for the Goblin Recruiter win. It's big and splashy enough that either you win or (if stopped) everyone will breath a sigh of relief and think that you're out of the game (at least for a while) Silly fools. They don't know what they're dealing with. Try to drop some more tokens. Now is also a good time to bring out Krenko, Mob Boss if you haven't already. Even if you can't combo out, he'll do work for you. If you can get a board out, don't forget to swing for some damage if the way is open. Or set up a way to do damage in another way. Show that you are still in the game. People get twitchy if all you're doing is stockpiling an army of 1/1's so don't be afraid to lose some of them. This is the beginning of the time that you can out of nowhere just win. Usually on a topdeck. Just a warning. The first time you try to combo out, it'll likely fail. Oh well. Don't worry.
Hey you! With the face!... We're at the most dangerous time of the game. When anyone could win at any given second. But not to worry. We can do the same. And more often then not, we can not just try to slip one combo or wincon out a turn. We can go for 2-3 a turn. Be reckless! Go big or go home! Don't hold back anything!! This is the time that you're likely to also pull the most nuts stuff out. Do you want to spawn 258,000 tokens or do that much damage in one turn without being able to go infinite? Now is your chance! Big epic plays are the mark of our beloved format. Show the table that we have earned our spot at the EDH table!!!
So... You might ask me, what cards or strategies might work to stop us. Nothing!!! Muhahahahahahaha!!! Well, I guess there are a few things that could be a pain for us to deal with.. Maybe..
Torpor Orb - This card. Really. This damm card. I hate this thing. I really do. It hurts us. But, on the bright side, everyone else hates it as much (unless you have a Purphoros, God of the Forge already out. Then everyone loves it. Such is life. Main reason why I had Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury in here. Granted, you can always talk someone into taking it out for you. Or just work around it. I made a few changes here a while ago that work.. Still a hard fight though. Same with Hushwing Gryff.
Aven Mindcensor - Well.. I guess we aren't ramping anymore.. It hurts, though not as much as it hurts most decks that need their tutors and fetchlands to work. Another reason why I've been trying to keep the CMC down.
Steel Hellkite - The scariest thing you'll likely ever hear is someone swinging this your way and choosing 0, 2, or 3... Stuff like that makes me want to drink more..
Bane of Progress/ Wave of Vitriol/ Fracturing Gust - Yeah... Just yeah... Thankfully, they likely just pissed off the rest of the table as well. So, there is that I guess. The hard part isn't that they killed off your artifacts, or your enchantments. They took out both.
Massive amounts of board wipes - I'm not talking about the 4-6 a game amount of wraths. I'm talking about 15+ a game. Put that way, we just can't keep up. Even if we play smart, we're likely to still lose everything and have to resort to trying to go for the 21 or something like that (why else do you think Kessig Wolf Run is in the list lol).
Way too many U players - I know I know... That's always a problem. They're like cockroaches or drunk ex's. Nobody likes them, and you can't kill them all. We have a few things going for us though. A: they have to manage an entire table, not just us. B: You just say screw it and fully expect your combo to wiff. We don't need to combo out to win. There are enough tools to get by without it. But it's still going to be an uphill struggle sometimes. If your meta is really over saturated with U control, I feel bad for you. That's when you're just going to have to power through it or slot in Boseiju, Who Shelters AllCavern of Souls and Vexing Shusher. If the issue is really bad, you can also slot in Defense Grid, Dosan the Falling Leaf, or City of Solitude and that gives you yet another out.
INFECT - Yes.. I said it. Let's just face it. We rely more then a bit that we start out at 40 life. We need that buffer to get off the ground. Infect sorta kicks that idea in the tender bits though. They are just way too fast. This list can't handle it. Though, as long as you aren't targeted first by them, you might survive. The rest of the table tends to see the infect player as public enemy #1 and will put everything on hold to take them out. My hat is off for those brave infect players that try taking on full tables.
Fast combo - We aren't the fastest deck. Even with our ramp and low CMC, it still takes a bit to get going. If there is a fast combo at the table, likely they aren't the only ones like that or other decks can at least slow them down. If nobody else can even slow them down, why are they using such an OP deck for the meta? Grab another deck that can beat them ( may I suggest infect lol). If the rest of the table can at least slow them a bit, it's your job to race them. It'll be hard. You very well might not make it, but you have a chance. There is a turn 4 combo in this list that you have to hit. And what do we do if everyone else has enough game that they can hang with that deck? We let them. They will hopefully be distracted at what each other are doing and laughing at your land base to ignore what you are doing. Let them laugh. I've pulled out the most wins in this situation then any others.
In this deck, we have 2 major ways to pull out a win. Thankfully, neither of them are "throw multiple spells at someone's face. I just find that boring. The two ways that we are going to try to pull out a win are by either finding value off of tokens or our creature in ways that aren't just swarming the hillside, and combo. The choice of what you will be doing is chosen by a few things. Your personality and playstyle. Your meta and the board state as the game goes on. And also by what you draw into.
6.1 Time to show the world who they should bow down to
or what to do when you're bored
So, I've been told by some very nice guys that I should show everyone just why this isn't just a combo deck and what you should be doing in between comboing off so you aren't just playing with yourself in front of a table of folks or else.
But anyhoo... I always say, in this deck, try to get value on stuff. Even if it's only a little bit. As my ex told me once. Even the smallest thing can put a smile on someone's face. What I mean with that, is that, even without a big splashy play, a few points of damage can add up over the course of a game. So, without going into combos, lets see what we can do with our tokens and other creatures..
When they come in to raid...
Firebrand Archer Guttersnipe Purphoros, God of the Forge Avenger of Zendikar Impact Tremors Warstorm Surge
These cards have effects when something comes into play. Your job is to try to beat the table with them as often as you can. They also tend to do the most damage over the course of a game when you aren't going to combo off quite yet. Things like this list also gain you value due to your combo only being ETB/LTB triggers.
Now, even with all of our different ways to win, what else do we have. Well... We have combos!!! It's not as many as it looks like. Buttt...(heh heh heh, I just said butt) There are many variations on each combo. It's really a mix and match type of thing. It makes it so much harder for anyone to actually stop us. We really get to the point that someone can just start getting rid of things in the deck and yet, they can't hit everything. And even if we can't just fully combo out, we can usually gain a stupid amount of value off of the "incomplete" combo by using our other cards (ETB/LTB/Just having more tokens out). So, with that being said, here's some of the more common combos we can do.
Ok ladies and gents. Let's show off why Kiki has a "kill on sight reputation". The new ppl here would normally think that the only main target that this card has is something like Avenger of Zendikar or to a lesser extent Siege-Gang Commander. Just using Kiki to copy a creature that has a ETB effect. Well, my furry bunnies, that's ok as far as that goes. For this, I will point out that, while the main copy dies at end of turn, the tokens that come with it stay (bonus points as always for running Parallel Lives and the other 2 effects. You get 2 copies of the creature that you are copying and each of those copies brings in twice the tokens). Needless to say, we can get out of hand quickly. Sometimes that's also the better play as well. But we can do so much more then just something then that. How can we? We have effects here that can let us untap Kiki over and over or looking at cards that make more copies for you.
First lets look at some of the cards that get you more bang for your buck here. Those cards are
Illusionist's Bracers Parallel Lives Doubling Season Primal Vigor
With these cards, we're getting double the advantage off of Kiki. That's not just awesome, but allows us to go off easier even if we're just targeting something small like a Goblin Chirurgeon as our target to copy. But lets also look at the cards that allow us to untap Kiki and see what we can do.
The cards that allow us to untap kiki to our heart's content are
Thornbite Staff - is by far and away the most basic of out tools for this. Slap it on Kiki (it auto equips as well) and go to town. With this, you tap Kiki, make a token, sac the token*, untap Kiki. Wash, rinse, repeat. For even more value, don't forget to use the tokens with
Copy of sharpshooter taps to deal one dmg to target creature or player
Original sharpshooter taps to deal one damage to the copy (killing it)
The copy dying triggers BOTH Kiki and Sharpshooter to untap.
Wash, rinse, repeat
-this combo needs no other sac outlet
Staff of Domination - Is next on our list and takes a slight bit more work to use. With each tap of Kiki, we have to make at least4 to continue it. Of course, it's easy to do so with a card like Siege-Gang Commander or Avenger of Zendikar. So I'm going to show you what you need in order to combo off with someone that doesn't bring extra food with them. The creature will be a vanilla 1/1 creature.
note that in these combos, if the token is a goblin, you may replace Phyrexian Altar with Skirk Prospector
Infinite mana = infinite card draw, life, and infinite tokens.
gets out of control if you have 2 of our token doubblers out at the same time.
Now lets see what we can do with Umbral Mantle. For the most part, You are doing the same combos. You just only need 3 mana to Kiki instead of 4. That allows a few things to not be needed as a combo. The drawback is you not gaining infinite life or the card draw. Though, as always, you are getting use out of ETB/LTB triggers.
tap Kiki to make a copy of Crafter, champion the copy on Kiki.
tap the copy to bolt a creature or player to the face-hole
using a sac outlet, sac the copy of Crafter. That will cause Kiki to come back into play untapped*
wash, rinse, and repeat as needed
* note that you will also gain the benefits of any ETB/LTB and whatever you are using as a sac outlet
So kibble-in-waiting, you want to know how to abuse this card? It's easy! Almost all of your Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos work with this card. Even without them, you're still going to get value. Note that when used on Siege-Gang Commander and Avenger of Zendikar. While you lose the copy that comes in, the tokens that the copy bring in stay with you. Also gets broken with your equipment's, Parallel Lives, Doubling Season and Primal Vigor. Live the dream!!!
The Kiki-Crafter combo works somewhat the same as shown.
When Crafter is not suffering from being summon sick, enchant it with Splinter Twin
Tap Crafter to make a copy of itself. Champion original Crafter.
Tap the copy to bolt. Use any sac outlet on the copy to get original Crafter back untapped.*
Edit Note - Please forget this combo. When I got to this section, I must of been a bit too tired. Neither myself, nor my proof readers caught that this doesn't work. I'm sorry. My bad. Shout out to arrogantAxolotl for catching it. I told you I'd give ya credit so
The Goblin Sharpshooter combo is a bit the same. You will need to have either Parallel Lives, Doubling Season, Primal VigorIllusionist's Bracers or a sac outlet as seen (2 versions)
* note that you will also gain the benefits of any ETB/LTB and whatever you are using as a sac outlet
Yes. This guy. So unfair. So unfair that I have to have a section devoted to showing just how to break him. Can I just... Ok ok!! Put the pitchforks and torches away!!!!
Well, to start things off, there are a few cards that just this guy. Illusionist's Bracers, Parallel Lives, Doubling Season, and Primal Vigor pull their weight to make Krenko spawn a army ASAP. Another card that loves him is Skullclamp. Talk about card draw. We'll gladly trade some tokens for cards. With Krenko, we have tokens to spare. And of course, we so love our ETB/LTB effects and Krenko helps fuel them.
But I'm betting that you want to know more ways to go off with him. Well, cause of the nature of his ability, in many ways he gets out of hand easier then Kiki-Jiki. How is this you may ask? I'll show you
Yes, yes.. I know. This card sucks so much. Your friends at the local head shop tell you that the only time that it works is when you have a huge horde already so why even play this thing. They are wrong!!! This card works so hard in this deck!!!
How does this card pull off such magic you may ask? Well, in the spirit of the free keg of beer that I scored today, I'll tell you how.
Well, yes, there is always the option of just turning a stack of 1/1's into a stack of 3/1's half the size. It's not the best that we can do, but it's something. It DOES put more power on the board for you.
With Parallel Lives, Doubling Season, or Primal Vigor, we aren't losing anything. it's flat out turning the tokens into bigger tokens and keeping the same number of tokens. Whoot whoot!
If you want to live the dream, I'll let you on a secret. If you somehow manage to have Tooth and Claw out and any 2 of the token doublers out at the same time, you have an instant army. Sac 2 creatures. You end up putting 4 3/1's into play (if you have all 3 it turns into gaining 8 3/1's). Take 2 of those new tokens, sac them and gain 4 tokens. Wash, rinse, repeat.
But wait, there's more
Have you noticed that there are a lot of cards that trigger off of ETB/LTB? We have
These 2 cards tend to be your main targets with Basilisk Collar.
Sharpshooter and that equipment turn into you killing off the board. For the new kids that don't see the interaction, it works like this.
Sharpshooter to deal one damage to target creature and gain 1 life.
Creature dies due to deathtouch.
When creature dies, sharpshooter.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Note that if you also have Illusionist's Bracers equipped on him, you can deal damage to players as well. For each damage he does to a creature, you send the second damage to the opponent of your choice.
The same can be said for the Crafter but to get the extra untaps, he has to have Thornbite Staff equipped as well.
Sharpshooter can be used as a free sac outlet for your x/1 creatures.
Crafter can be used to protect a Goblin or Shaman by championing them. When the wrath happens, Crafter dies but the creature under it comes into play.
So, already I've gotten asked why I'm not running (insert card here). And have been asked about cards that I like, but don't quite make the cut for this deck. For the cards that are finding their ways in and out of this deck but only last a playtesting, and fun cards that might make a slot on a slight variant of this deck I think I'll keep track and tell my thoughts about it. In this list I'll also give my thoughts about any card that gets brought up in this thread (not counting spoiler season comments, those will be made as new sets come out. So, this part will hopefully always be "under construction" and updated as we go. Maybe that will help if I get all the comments so that someone doesn't have to go through all of them to find my thoughts on a card. As always, I look forward to your comments. And remember, card choice is often chosen by personal playstyle and your meta. As I keep on saying (for good reason), your mileage may vary!
Lands
So far I'm glad with my lands as is. But for anyone that's asking why I'm not running..
Ancient Tomb - We don't need it. really, we don't. The only time that it would come in handy is t2-t4. I would rather just use what we have.
Taiga/ Stomping Ground/ Fire-Lit Thicket/ Rootbound Crag/ Command Tower/ Reflecting Pool/ any other rainbow land - Our color fixing game is on point. We neither need nor want this. I've run them in the deck before, and honestly, they didn't add much if anything. Almost all of our ramp goes for basics after all. I would much rather play money hate instead. Money hate wins more then running a not needed dual. In other decks, yes, run stuff like this. This deck doesn't gain anything from this.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - Funny thing... Never needed this. Everyone is more afraid of what someone else is going to cast. Please note, when Wort conspires her spells, it takes 2 counterspells to stop it fully. Also, Playing this card shows the other players that they really really want to have a counterspell against your deck. I'd rather have them throw those counterspells at each other. And considering how many cards in this deck have a similar enough of an effect to another card, we aren't worried about losing any piece.
Cavern of Souls - See above. It doesn't hurt this deck so much even losing Kiki or Krenko. And if they just stopped my "wincon" they'll be more willing to let me slide and even protect me if someone is targeting me (and also yell at them for improper threat assessment).
Gaea's Cradle - Ummmm... I don't own it anymore? And while I HAD one back in the day, I threw it in Fish before I retired him. If I had one for the deck, Yes. It would go in here. It's a broken card after all. Though, any deck that could run it, should be able to work just as well without it.
Artifacts
Well... There are a few things here that I can talk about...
Sensei's Divining Top - This deck doesn't need it. We don't mind having to top deck for a win. Also throws everyone off that we are a combo deck and not using this. And I've gotten sick of EDH being 97 cards, top, commander, and...
Sol Ring - Only needed in the first 3 turns. After that, it's at best a weak ramp, and often underclassed by our spells. If I drop a ring early enough that it's worth it. I just put a target on my head. Not needed here.
Coat of Arms/ Obelisk of Urd/ Other buffs - We don't need them. While if it comes down to it, we can swing for a bizillon, we don't need to attack.
Mirari - Is in every Wort deck. Used to be in here as well.. Why is it gone, you may ask? Just don't need it. Wort herself does any and all coping that we would need. Unlike every other Wort deck, we aren't going to X-spell a table to death. So
Thousand-Year Elixir - Yes, I know. I'm running Krenko and not running this? I must be nuts, right? Well, my little bottom feeders, my sanity or lack thereof isn't the reason why I'm not running this. It just doesn't do enough! A one shot untap? Seems a bit on the weak side. And I don't need the pseudo haste either. If I wanted another haste outlet, I'd be running Sarkhan Vol over this card any day of the week.
Rings of Brighthearth - Honestly, this is just win more. That's all it is. Any time that I would be using this, I don't need it. So yeah. That's the reason. You got a problem with that, fight me (jk please don't, I squishy and stuff)
Birthing Pod - Powerful card. Wrong build for it though.
Altar of the Brood - This card did a lot of work in here. When I first saw it, I was giddy as a school girl pumped up with 3 cans of Red Bull (how's that for product placement lol). It won a few games, but I ended up taking it out due to meta change.
Slate of Ancestry - Is nice when we run out of steam. But I don't need it (not to mention that in this deck it gets killed on sight when I tried it)
Sword of the Paruns - An almost reprint of Umbral Mantle. Reasons I'm not running it? It's a drop instead of and I want to at least try to keep my curve as low as I can. And it also shuts off Skullclamp at times. But I could see decks wanting it.
Panharmonicon - Great card!!! But I haven't been able to get my hands on one as of now and don't know what I'd take out for it.
Door of Destinies - Honestly, We're rarely going to get more then 2 counters on here. Also, we aren't always looking for a buff.
Carnage Altar - If you feel like you just need a bit of card draw, use this. I found that I didn't need it though.
Defense Grid - If you really want to combo out but there's too many blue players in your meta. I don't run this because I feel that we don't need to combo out. We can go the long game and get the win from all of the triggers that we can have.
Godzilla - Back before I had all my nifty toys and was more aggro, this card was actually in the list. But, when we got the toys and I could really focus on the gameplan, this got cut. Maybe if you went more aggro though..
Ant Queen - Works in this deck. Can also combo off with Earthcraft and either out doublers or an altar effect. I could just never get it to work for me. *shrugs*
Márton Stromgald - Beast in any token deck that can run it!!! No freaking joke!!! Taken out when I started going away from aggro. Use in a different build or with Tana, the Bloodsower. Please! Most ppl don't know about him and I'm a fan of bringing back old cards.
Hellrider - Broken in a more tokens/aggro build. Not quite with our current gameplan right now though.
Caller of the Claw - See my complaints about Fresh Meat. Mostly the same. Can be used to awesome results with either you using a sac outlet.
Young Pyromancer - Very nice card. Not nice enough in this build though. I will say this though. If your meta has infect put it in! You'll have to sacrifice some of the gameplan just to make sure that you don't get taken out by turn 4. Sorry.
Combat Celebrant/ Zealous Conscripts/ Great Oak Guardian - Yes, yes, yes... I know they combo out with Kiki and Twin. I just don't like having 2 card combos in the deck. Just seems a bit unfair and unfun to me. With this deck, there are hundreds of combos to choose from (really happy now that I didn't list ALL of them lol) but they are all 3 or more card combos. I think that's fair. I have all 3 of these cards in the "GGA-Now with more" list in the second post if you want a more in depth talk about them.
Stalking Vengeance - After testing, I found it to be a far worse Vicious Shadows. It doesn't trigger on someone else' creatures dying and often does less damage as well. Along with being easier to handle.
Vexing Shusher - Very good card. Also a goblin. If you are running a uber high blue mage meta, and want to combo out, add this. I found that it was just a better plan to ride off the use of all my triggers that I get instead. Not to mention that I don't LOOK for my combos. I just draw into them.
Hissing Iguanar Card that I was running... Don't remember why I took it out actually.... Hmmmm...
Dosan the Falling Leaf - Add if you are having issues with U mages... Or listen to me and not be determined to combo off every game. You don't need to
Thermo-Alchemist - This ALMOST makes the cut for us.. I guess that if you haven't picked up a Firebrand Archer this could take the slot until you do. The archer is just better though.
The bread and butter of this deck.. What isn't making a cut though...
Mana Echoes - Yeah... Win more.. I don't need a bizillion mana for one shot. And IF I did need that much, it'd happen by itself more often then not. Just saying...
Outpost Siege - This card is broken for us... Well.. Half of it is. Drop this and choose Dragons. Gain value. I don't know where to slot it in though.. I'm currently looking at a few cards as is...
Shared Animosity - We aren't aggro. Would def be in there if I was.
Awakening Zone - Bit too slow for us. I don't think it's worth a slot.
Goblin Warrens - It's nice.. Just not enough for a slot right now.
Survival of the Fittest - You know, for being a combo deck, we really don't need nor want tutors. Also does nothing with our commander.
Boggart Shenanigans - Reason why this isn't here? While MOST of our things are Goblins, not all of them are. I just got burned one time too many with this card so it got cut. Still a good card, just not for me I guess.
Fecundity - It's backfired against me going against a Grave Pact deck... I've also decked myself.. But go ahead and try it if you want. It's quite good and usually what we need as well.
Squirrel Nest - Yes, I'm running Earthcraft. I am choosing to not run 2 card combos. Just personal choice in this deck.
Epic Struggle - Honestly, this is more then slightly tempting..
Perilous Forays - Very good card. Tends to be a bit more win more though. Also, my 5cmc slot is a bit packed. Maybe I'll try it out again one day.
Instants
Yeah... Lets see what we have...
Chaos Warp / Beast Within - They are awesome. Really. But I want to keep my head down and not draw hate. And I don't like having to react to what someone else is doing. I'd rather just do what I'm doing and pull out a win. Would these cards be powerful in this deck? Of course. Would they advance the game plan? Not so much.
Second Harvest - Every time I had this, it just turned into win-more. Maybe it's just me though.. I have the bad habit of some cards just not working for me. Feel free to try it out yourself. Can see this in an aggro build.
Fresh Meat - Broken card when it works. I either punishing wraths (esp with Parallel Lives out. And it also got crazy when I was going sac crazy. Just ended up working it's way out.
Red Elemental Blast/ Pyroblast - Good cards. Stops counters and takes care of JTMS and other junk like him. I haven't needed it though.
Sorceries
This is what we're talking about...
Dragon Fodder/ Krenko's Command/ Hordeling Outburst - I like these cards. I just would rather put combo pieces in instead. However there is one time that I would say that you must put these in the deck. INFECT!!! If you have infect running around, this is the only thing that can save your butt. Infect puts everyone on that short of a clock so dropping a few chumps early will save you hard.
Nissa's Renewal - I don't like this. Too much mana for a ramp spell. I like how low my curve is and I would rather not mess it up with a subpar ramp. The life gain isn't good enough either.
Animist's Awakening - Well.. This card fits a lot of my lookout marks for my ramp. Can be a 2 drop ramp. has value. Thing I don't like about this is how often it wiffs, Really. By the time I could cast it for like 10 when it could do the most work, I likely would only get maybe 4 lands tops. Maybe if I stuffed more lands in here, but we're lean enough that this isn't that good.
Gelatinous Genesis - Nice card. Really. Bit too much mana to take use of it... And we'd rather keep our tokens as 1/1's for skullclamp. I don't know about this... I'll maybe give it another look see sometimes
Boundless Realms - I looked at this card for a while now.. Still saying the same thing. Just don't need it. Also not so much needed if we have Wort out. The earliest we could play this, if conspired, we'd likely draw every last land in the deck. And almost all the time that we could cast this, we have enough mana to do whatever we wanted.
Faithless Looting/ Wild Guess/ Tormenting Voice/ Cathartic Reunion - Yes, Card draw is good. Card draw is very good. And with Wort, we can break all of these besides Faithless Looting. That being said, If you really want card draw, go right ahead and slot these in. I just don't need them. I've always been able to naturally draw into whatever I want.
Waiting in the Weeds - This almost feels like a jank card. But, it does have a few things going for it. It can be used as an early game spell. Can be used as late game. Can be used as one of our ritual effect cards. Tokens are skullclamp-able. Hmmm... I might have to try this out. I worry that it could be more of a dead draw compared to whatever I take out for this though. Hmmm...
Arlinn Kord - I want this card!!! So much!!! Makes tokens and the ult is smexy as hell... Just don't know what I'd take out for her. FML
Chandra, the Firebrand - So fun if you go more for a spell only build. Only good for her -2. Was in the deck but she's too cute. *sigh*
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - See above. Only so much better!!! But I still can't spare a slot for her here.
Domri Rade - It's nice. With Doubling Season he can ult the turn after he shows up. But it's only his ult that is worth it. So not worth a slot in this deck. Maybe a more aggro deck though...
Garruk Wildspeaker - So good!!! But... I'd rather have a combo piece instead. Def auto include for an aggro version.
Garruk, Primal Hunter - See above. Only better. All 3 abilities work wonders. I just can't find a slot for him right now. If you are missing any cards from my list, this can take the slot.
Karn Liberated - Yes, we are running doubling season. No, we still don't want this. No need for it. We have better stuff. I don't care that it cuts into my booze funds. Not the point.
Sarkhan Vol - Good stuff!!! Actually one of my latest cuts and still not sure it was right taking him out. All 3 abilities work with this deck. Probably will make his way back in sometime in the future if any card really pisses me off.
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - So underloved. Yet another of my recent cuts. Also another card that will likely make her way back in. Tokens, ramp, card draw, and naturalize on a stick..
Nissa, Worldwaker - Ult is winmore, not worth the slot and doesn't do what we're trying.
Please note. All changes to the deck that are listed here are the ones that I have made since I have made this post. Changes that happened before then are not in here.
6/9/17 - Blasting Station +Ruination This change was made due to the fact that blasting station was on it's way out anyhoo and I kept getting complaints about why I only run basic lands. I thought that I properly explained my reasoning for it. but it looks like I didn't. This change is to address that issue of not getting the point across well enough. We have issues against higher budget decks. Thankfully, one of the best tools out there to fight against higher budget decks is to punish them for running fancy land bases. R can and should do that with ease. Money hate is one of it's strengths and that very few ppl are willing to use it is one of the biggest reasons why it's so thought of that it's by far and away the weakest color in EDH.
6/13/17 - Beastmaster Ascension +Into the North So... I've been getting really screwed over from the Ascension as of late. Not really feeling it and all. So, when I was informed of Into the North, I know what card I was wanting to get rid of. I'm not going to ignore another 2cmc ramp spell if I can help it. Also, it leads us into the other change today...
- 21 Forest - 12 Mountain + 21 Snow-Covered Forest + 12 Snow-Covered Mountain. So yeah. I changed my land base into snow lands all for the inclusion of Into the North. Worth it, though how to get the deck foiled out?
7/6/17 - Courser of Kruphix + Firebrand Archer Well... I finally found a slot for this card. The deck really wanted it and all. IT'S SO GOOD FOR US.
7/25/17 - Natural Connection + Far Wanderings The instant speed was never a issue for me. Never came up and all. And there's a chance that I may hit the Threshold. So, worse case, they are the same card for me. One of them just may do better every once in a while.
6/1/17 - OC decklist and card explanation up.
6/2/17 - changelogs added
6/3/17 - Added other commanders section
- early game finished
- mid game finished
- late game finished
6/4/17 - Crafter and Sharpshooter tips added
- Tooth and claw tips added
- Adding Recruiter and Ringleader to utility goblins section cause why not
- Added Kiki combos to the list.
- Added Splinter Twin combos to the list
6/5/17 - Added Krenko combos to list
- Added Deck changelog
- Added in-and-out section
6/6/17 - Added meta choices and thoughts due to requests from fans
6/7/17 - Added Things that spill our drinks section
- Added budget list on second post
6/8/17 - Now with fancy lines
- Cleaned a few things up in the list to make it look a bit better. Added a bit more advice in the Running the Deck section
6/9/17 - Cleaned up a few more issues due to advice. Yeah, we're killing it like Sean Bean
6/10/17 - Added table of contents and links
- Added table of contents!
6/14/17 - Came back home after my friend's wedding (didn't get to play any games all extended weekend) and figured that I'd fix a few small spots to make it easier to read (did away with my love of writing things in all caps and changed it to bold or something else. I would like it if I had some response to that slight change.
6/22/17 - Added decklist by function (by request). I don't like it because the main strength of this deck is that one can use almost any card for any use. Not just for one thing.
- Decklist is now in the database!! Whoot whoot
6/30/17 - Added Hour of Devastation review (post # 12)
7/8/17 - Sent application for primer status... Wish me luck *crosses fingers*
7/25/17 - Got my response back from the Primer committee a few days ago. After drinking my pity away I'm starting to work on the minor things that I was asked to fix.
- Put cards in the deck list in correct order.
- Corrected the Splinter-Crafter combo and gave shout out to the one that caught it.
- Did first work on fixing the navigation links. Hopefully they are in the correct spot now
- Corrected the Oracle Text for the commander.
- Added the amount of each card type to the two deck lists.
- Added note that the second post is for the two other deck lists
8/10/17 - Added C17 review (post # 20)
OK peeps. Now I know that my main list is what most of you would already consider a budget deck for EDH. Cause, well, it is in a lot of cases. "But Dracos, can we still cut some money out and still do this game plan?" YES! Yes we can. It doesn't combo out as hard, But that's OK. We just add a few more pieces of money hate in and let those Zur decks break down and cry.
The play style is still mostly the same for this version. I tried to keep the cards under $10. Meh. I had fun running this version myself. If you don't want the money hate in here.. Maybe go for some of the card draw spells... I found that money hate went further though. Also note, if you want to run Into the North and snow covered basic lands, feel free to do so. I just didn't put them in here because while each card is under budget, all together, it DOES add quite a bit to the list in terms of $$$. You'd be better off grabbing something like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker instead for your money. *shrugs*
UNLIMITED POWER VERSION!!!!
And now, due to me promising that I would, here's the more all in combo version of the deck
When Celebrant either has haste or is no longer summon sick, cast Twin on Celebrant.
Use Twin to make a copy of Celebrant.
Using the copy only, attack and exert it. That will cause the original to untap
Before the next combat step, make another copy of Celebrant
Repeat until you've killed off everyone else
Ok everyone. You want to see a busted way to make ALL the mana that you could ever want? You use this card. Honestly, even though this is one of the more fair decks that run this card, it will still win games quickly. Sprout Swarm - On a bare board, Echoes turns into this.
Cast Swarm with buyback for .
When the Saproling enters play, it triggers Echoes gaining you
Using that :1mana:, tap an additional and use the Saproling to pay a with the convoke, cast Swarm again.
When that Saproling enters play, it triggers Echoes gaining you
Now, use that :2mana:, tap an additional :2mana:, and use the Saproling to pay for the convoke, cast Swarm again.
This time, when Echoes triggers you gain :3mana:... Notice that you're gaining more and more mana with each cast? It quickly allows you to start netting positive mana with each cast.
...
I just found that doing this plan just doesn't work as well. Not to mention that it isn't as fun. Even if you add even more anti U tools, we just don't have enough hard tutors in our colors to grab our combo pieces to make it worth it.
With both of these deck lists, I'm more then happy to talk with others about them. Hell, I might end up needing to put up a changelog for both of these decks if I get enough questions about them.
Well... What do you know, I DID have to put in a change for this deck...
- Feroz's Ban + Firebrand Archer
I waited until the going prices were spoiled before I made this change. At what it is listed, I don't think that we'd have to worry about it going over our budget. And it's SO GOOD!!
- Natural Connection + Shamanic Revelation
So, without some of the more powerful cards that are in the other 2 decks, I thought that this deck could use some card draw. This one is quite a beast.
- Ranger's Path + Far Wanderings
Just trying to speed the deck up a bit
- Nissa's Pilgrimage + Samut, the Tested
Ok... There is only one reason why I made this change. Her ult. Effectively it's a T&N that can't be copied. Quite good for our combos and all.
- Throne of the God-Pharaoh + Mana Echoes
Mana Echoes allows for a few more combos. Might as well put it in.
- Kyren Negotiations + Manamorphose
With Throne of the God-Pharaoh coming out, the Negotiations lost a lot of it's luster. So, I'm going to go with a nice piece of early game card draw. Turn 2 I can drop this, draw a card, and still cast a 2 drop ramp.
- Squirrel Nest + Uncage the Menagerie
So, yes. I took the nest combo out. I'm sorry. There is a good reason for that though. The combo just wasn't worth it. So, I hunted down another tutor for us that hits almost every creature that we'd want to see. So, yeah... If anyone is wondering about the combo in question, it goes like this
At the end of the turn right before yours, the land that is enchanted to create a token.
Using that token, use Earthcraft to untap the enchanted land.
Create another 1 billion tokens.
Start your turn by untapping your board then swing and kill the table.
I don't like the combo anymore because it only works with those 2 cards. At least with the other combos, you can find another card to use if the first one gets taken out. This combo, not so much
- 1 Snow-Covered Mountain + Highland Weald
Might as well... It's a dual land that I have one card to fetch it. Not any real loss if it CIPT I guess.
Wort is probably my favorite general that I've never had a chance to build. This decklist looks pretty tight. I really like the way you combine the philosophies of a Krenko, Purph, and Kiki list in one shell.
My main question revolves around the use of creature tutors. I know that you stated you'd prefer to avoid tutoring, but I also see the Tooth and Nail in the list and I wonder if you've had a chance to test out some of the other green creature tutors? In particular, I'm thinking that Chord of Calling and Time of Need would be really good in this shell. Chord is just amazing in general, of course, but with all the tokens you're throwing around it seems like the convoke part would be especially solid. With X=5 conspired at the end of turn, Wort could untap with Purphoros and Krenko in play for extra fun. Time of Need is a bit jankier, but almost all the creatures you really want to find are legendary and it's hard to turn down a two mana tutor. Unless, as I suspect, you're looking to edge away from that sort of consistency, which I completely understand.
I really appreciate the Throne of the God-Pharaoh. I've been trying to get that to work in a Rishkar, Peema Renegade list, so I'd love to hear your experiences with it. I also am playing around with Harvest Season in that list from Amonkhet; seems like it could do some good work conspired in a Wort deck.
Wort is probably my favorite general that I've never had a chance to build. This decklist looks pretty tight. I really like the way you combine the philosophies of a Krenko, Purph, and Kiki list in one shell.
My main question revolves around the use of creature tutors. I know that you stated you'd prefer to avoid tutoring, but I also see the Tooth and Nail in the list and I wonder if you've had a chance to test out some of the other green creature tutors? In particular, I'm thinking that Chord of Calling and Time of Need would be really good in this shell. Chord is just amazing in general, of course, but with all the tokens you're throwing around it seems like the convoke part would be especially solid. With X=5 conspired at the end of turn, Wort could untap with Purphoros and Krenko in play for extra fun. Time of Need is a bit jankier, but almost all the creatures you really want to find are legendary and it's hard to turn down a two mana tutor. Unless, as I suspect, you're looking to edge away from that sort of consistency, which I completely understand.
I really appreciate the Throne of the God-Pharaoh. I've been trying to get that to work in a Rishkar, Peema Renegade list, so I'd love to hear your experiences with it. I also am playing around with Harvest Season in that list from Amonkhet; seems like it could do some good work conspired in a Wort deck.
Thanks for posting!
Thank you for reading!!! You made my day lol
Your comment about Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Purphoros, God of the Forge is a bit duh. Cause all 3 of those cards have the same issue. If you're running any of those decks, you are running not just the other 2 cards in the deck, You use the same deck for all 3 cards. To the point that you can switch out the commander for any of them.
The funny thing about T&N is that, I might end up taking it out of that deck list before too long. Likely for a card draw or one ofmyboys or mygirls. All of them find space in this deck and have pulled their weight before. Before too long, I'll be finishing up the OC, doing a game plan section, and listing combos and fun tricks that the deck can use that might not be noticed at first glance. I would love for this to get primer status. In that vein, I'll be putting up an additional 2 more deck lists. One being a budget version ( had to make it after a former roommate decided that she didn't want to pay rent for a few months (was a pain to buy those cards back from the LGS)) that might of had as good of a win record as this one, and a "unfair" list that runs tutors and the Kiki-twin combos. Time of Need will def make it's way in that variant. (honestly, never knew that card existed, wasn't playing during that time so THANK YOU!!!) It just sucks that I type VERY SLOW and my computer keeps crashing so I wanted to put something up at least and just add to it. MORE WILL BE COMMING I PROMISE!! Harvest Season and a few other cards like that I look at as win more. This deck, while loving ramp, doesn't need all of it's lands out to work. I can win off of just 5 lands (nut draw, and someone cheated out Iona naming green). Though, it might take the place of Explosive Veggies one day just for the CC of the deck. I really love the curve of the deck and that I can usually still use every bit of mana every turn one way or another. -edit- also, notice that while if this card is conspired, worse case it's a conspired explosive veggies for 1 less, if cast in a vacuum, it doesn't fetch anything. I think that's the reason I didn't like it. all my ramp should be good both as is and conspired
Considering that the 'Throne is still in testing, I love it! Namely for it's way to get around a artifact lock down from mono red artifacts. (Can't attack, guy has torpor orb, he's hexproof, and bit of damage resistance) Also a way to draw removal to save the lives of my other combo cards. So far i'm giving it a 9/10
Hello everyone. I Just wanted to say that I finished a budget list (on the second post). Feel free to check it out. Just wanted to keep everyone informed of that update
Fellow Wort player here! I'm just getting back to it after a hiatus, and she still feels just as exciting as I remember. My list is more of a spellslinger/control variant, but I've played Wort as a token general and also as a weird voltron list. I look forward to good discussion about her potential as a commander!
Fellow Wort player here! I'm just getting back to it after a hiatus, and she still feels just as exciting as I remember. My list is more of a spellslinger/control variant, but I've played Wort as a token general and also as a weird voltron list. I look forward to good discussion about her potential as a commander!
Well, welcome back! Yet another person to join me as we offer ourselves to our new goblin overlords.. Or in this case overlady? Hmmm... I should think longer about a better title for her...
ANYHOO!
I think that there are many ways to run her is the main point is saying that she deserves to be known as a competitive commander. At least in multiplayer. She just doesn't get any serious lovin or attention. I'm hoping to change that. Cause lets face it. She actually has the tools to take down some of the best competition out there, it's just are we going to hunt them down and use them or not? I say that we should!!!
So, I finally got around to posting the 3rd version of the deck. Sorry it took so long. Just wanted everyone to know that I did a thing! Currently waiting to see if anything will be released for any of the 3 decks in HofD.
I will assume that any comments from this point on will be directed about the OP, unless you specify that you're talking about a different one of the decks. Please let me know which one in that case. And thank you to everyone that has said anything either here or through IM. I'm always ready for a talk about my baby. And the word of mouth is going great! I'm still not in the database and I'm getting a ton of views! Whoot whoot!!!
I'm surprised that you're not running Second Harvest, as a doubled Second Harvest quadruples all tokens you have in play, at instant speed. Since we're on the subject of harvests, Early Harvest is a card that can generate stupid amounts of mana, as is Battle Hymn. I'll also second Harvest Season. Mind you, these suggestions are all coming from someone running Wort as a pure combo build. TL,DR: Run more cards with Harvest in their name.
I'm surprised that you're not running Second Harvest, as a doubled Second Harvest quadruples all tokens you have in play, at instant speed. Since we're on the subject of harvests, Early Harvest is a card that can generate stupid amounts of mana, as is Battle Hymn. I'll also second Harvest Season. Mind you, these suggestions are all coming from someone running Wort as a pure combo build. TL,DR: Run more cards with Harvest in their name.
Whoot whoot! Another Wort player! Thank you for visiting my list and commenting! You're awesome!!!
I thought I explained my reasoning for not running a few of these cards.
-Second Harvest - Every time I had this, it just turned into win-more. Maybe it's just me though.. I have the bad habit of some cards just not working for me. Feel free to try it out yourself. Can see this in an aggro build
It really was more of a hit or miss thing in this build. Either the board was blank and it was worthless, it would make me too much of a target without letting me win, or it was just win-more. I was so excited when I first saw it spoiled, but it just didn't work for me no matter how much I wanted it to. But, it could be just me, hence why I made a mention for it.
-Early Harvest/ Battle Hymn - Yes, these cards can make a stupid amount of mana. Same could be said about Rude Awakening. Thing is, we don't need stupid amounts of just mana with this build. We really don't run any good mana sinks for all that mana. The deck is tuned to get around a lot of the issues that most Wort decks have. Needing ALL the mana to win. This deck wins with much less, so we can get in there while everyone else is worried about the "bigger threat" at the table. Honestly, while it doesn't look like it on paper, after playing the deck, having enough mana is never an issue. And for all the times that we need all that mana to combo off, the combo itself makes it, and these spells just don't do enough by themselves.
-Harvest Season - Let me repost what I said earlier about this..
"and a few other cards like that I look at as win more. This deck, while loving ramp, doesn't need all of it's lands out to work. I can win off of just 5 lands (nut draw, and someone cheated out Iona naming green). Though, it might take the place of Explosive Veggies one day just for the CC of the deck. I really love the curve of the deck and that I can usually still use every bit of mana every turn one way or another. -edit- also, notice that while if this card is conspired, worse case it's a conspired explosive veggies for 1 less, if cast in a vacuum, it doesn't fetch anything. I think that's the reason I didn't like it. all my ramp should be good both as is and conspired"
After I posted that, I slotted it back in. I'll say this, it's stronger then I first gave it credit for. It really is. I took it out though, because my previous worry about me needing a ramp spell when I had nothing on the board kept on staying in the back of my mind. Just the thought of it happening is keeping me from running it. That is the only reason why I don't still have it in the deck. As such, I can't fault anyone running it.
Thank you for the comment. I hope that I explained my reasoning why I'm not running those cards in here. This just isn't the right build to take advantage of them. Saying that, I would say that most Wort builds would love those cards. They are very powerful. I would love to see your deck list so I may comment on it. As I keep saying, Wort is an underused choice for a commander and, more then most, there are many many ways to run her successfully. This is just one way, and the way that I found most effective and fun for me.
Come on everyone! Lets keep the comments coming and give Wort the attention that she deserves!!!
Well, here we go boys and girls! Our first look at a completed spoiler for a set! What we have here is Hour of Devastation!!! I will be giving my thoughts on any and every card that I think might be worth a look see in here.
Lands
Scavenger Grounds - It's a bit tempting. It gives us GY hate on a land. Might be good if everyone in your meta is abusing the GY. But I don't think it's worth a slot. Sorry. Endless Sands - Hmmm... This might be fun if you are really trying to abuse Krenko and thus he ended up with too big of a target on his head... Or if the table is gunning for mass exile and/or tuck. I don't think we need it though.
Artifacts
Crook of Comdemnation - Well... We aren't running Relic of Progenitus right now. Not to mention that we tend to have better GY hate, so this doesn't make the cut for me. Sorry/not sorry. Graven Abomination - Another card that I really am going to need to pick up like 20+ of (I have too many decks ).. But not for this deck. See above Sunset Pyramid - Hmmm... Might be worth a look as a budget Sylvan Library... Don't really need it right now though IMO Mirage Mirror - Ok... This card actually has me thinking... There are a lot of targets that we can use.. Def going to playtest this. Not quite sure if it's going to be an auto include but will be on the list.
Red
Crash Through - If you are running a aggro build, run this. Very good for that build. Notice that you can use it to draw more cards if you conspire it. Firebrand Archer - This WILL be finding it's way in. No freaking question!!! It has (currently) 50 targets that work with it. Notice that Guttersnipe only fires off with 23 things in this deck. And it's 1 less then the 'Snipe. Reasons why I'm wanting to find a slot instead of just replacing it being smaller body (doesn't matter), 1 dmg instead of 2 per trigger, and not a goblin (actually an issue for this deck). But this is the type of card that we love here. Imminent Doom - Has promise. Wish that it hit more targets at once (like all opponents, or all creatures target opponent controls). Without something like that, isn't worth the slot here. Neheb, the Eternal - Could see this if we had to deal with a deck that has too much lifegain for us to normally work though, but we have MUCH better tools to add if we are just looking for a ton of mana.
Multi-color
Struggle // Survive - Tis a nice piece of removal. That isn't the reason why we're looking at it. We only want the aftermath half. Hmmm... Mostly a meta choice, but I'll try it out when it's released. Don't think that it's worth a slot though. Samut, the Tested - Only good in this deck for the ult. But can't copy it. I actually like this card unlike most ppl here, but for this deck... No thank you.
Green
Beneath the Sands - Very much so worth a look. Might be willing to use it to take one of my 4cmc ramps out. Hmmm... I'll take a look on if it goes in or if we are set. If I can find a slot, it goes in. Hour of Promise - So good!! So very very good. I've been singing it's praises since I first saw it. Just not in this deck. Why you may ask? In this list, it's too expensive. And we aren't running the fancy lands that make this broken i.e. Cofferborg. Overcome - Include in aggro builds. Ramunap Excavator - Crucible of Worlds on a stick. Well, if I was running Crucible I would switch it out for this. Easy. But I'm not running it so there we go. Rhonas's Last Stand - Ok ok... Time for me to draw some hate. I actually really really like this card. It's nowhere as much of an auto-include as Firebrand Archer, but very few things are. Now, why do I like it, you ask? Early game board presence, it's a 2 drop, it gives us blockers that aren't just chump blockers, we have Cryptolith Rite and Earthcraft so having our lands being tapped for one turn isn't that hard for us (also the altar's), it gets sick with Wort out or one of our token doublers out. And, when you actually play the deck out, it already tends to lead itself to casting stuff only every other turn. Will def be testing it out. Uncage the Menagerie - We aren't built to take advantage of this card. I think the best we could do is Courser of Kruphix+Guttersnipe+Magus of the Moon, Krenko, Mob Boss+Lightning Crafter+Oracle of Mul Daya+Purphoros, God of the Forge, or just Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+Siege-Gang Commander... Maybe in the pure combo build (a ton more targets really) but not in the OP. I'll try it out in there and let ya know. Also, doesn't do anything with Wort. Nissa's Encouragement - No... Just no... Nissa, Genesis Mage - She has a lot going for her. Really. Her CMC isn't an issue for us and her +2 and her ult is nice. But I don't think she's worth the slot, and there are better cards that can do her stuff better for less. Majestic Myriarch - Can be a big beater...But nah. We aren't looking for just that. And we aren't running a Keyword soup deck so it loses a lot of power. But it in a Naya deck.
Well... That's it for the review. Feel free to comment about my thoughts and I'll put up results about my better picks when I get my hands on the cards.
Hello Osi! Welcome to the page!
My thoughts? Not worth it IMO.
They are creatures, so they don't work well with Wort.
They don't bring in tokens, hence they don't help with our token strategy.
While they both have either an ETB or a LTB effect, I see it as minor and not really worth the slots.
As I see it, they mostly count as minor rituals. Granted, with either one of our untap effects and either Kiki or Splinter Twin, they have the ability to combo off (though I think that they would also need a sac outlet as well), it's still not anything that I really want in the main deck. They are just too limited for the job. The budget list isn't running Kiki so it makes it only one card that they work well for. I'll think if they might find a slot in the all out combo list. Hmmmm...
And the three cards I thought I would single out are
1) Early Harvest - A MONSTER in this deck that works even better in a deck designed to only be running a single nonbasic
2) Nostalgic Dreams - which when conspired because the cards are discarded as an additional cost so you can pick them all right back up with the copy.
3) Manamorphose is not good in most Commander really good with Wort and Shamanic Revelation seems like a no brainier (not a lot of draw in that list)
Whoot whoot!! Another Wort player! Welcome to the thread!!!
Ok, so, my thoughts about those cards. Well, the first 3 cards that you mention all have a similar issue. With Wort out, they are awesomesause. Without her, they are sorta meh. But here's my deeper thoughts about them.
Early Harvest - Well, I've already talked about this in post #11 and I'll show it here. Reminds me that I need to update my "meta card choices" list.
-Early Harvest/ Battle Hymn - Yes, these cards can make a stupid amount of mana. Same could be said about Rude Awakening. Thing is, we don't need stupid amounts of just mana with this build. We really don't run any good mana sinks for all that mana. The deck is tuned to get around a lot of the issues that most Wort decks have. Needing ALL the mana to win. This deck wins with much less, so we can get in there while everyone else is worried about the "bigger threat" at the table. Honestly, while it doesn't look like it on paper, after playing the deck, having enough mana is never an issue. And for all the times that we need all that mana to combo off, the combo itself makes it, and these spells just don't do enough by themselves.-
Now, after saying that, I should mention this. We are running cards like Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Cryptolith Rite, and Earthcraft so a better ritual effect would be Firecat Blitz esp since we are also running the 3 token doublers. Just my thoughts.
Nostalgic Dreams - Yeah... This is just my opinion but this is mostly only good for us with Wort out. I really don't like having spells that we need her out to gain good value. By the time that there is anything that we would want back, we likely don't have enough cards in hand to pull it off. But that isn't a problem for us. We don't need graveyard recursion in this deck. How is that? The deck is built with almost too much redundancy. So very many cards in the list can take the part of any other card. Case in point. Once in a 4 person FFA game, one of my friends ramp'd out like mad and hit me with a very early KICKED Sadistic Sacrament! I still managed to come out on top in that game, even though he gutted the deck. That's one of the reasons why I don't like having tutors or GY recursion in the deck. I'd rather run more copies of the effects that I want. It also leads the rest of the table into a false sense of security if they see so many combo pieces in the bin. They don't expect you to still be a threat and will either ignore you, or actually come to your defense if someone tries to target you. Or at least until you drop another bomb and take the table out
Manamorphose and Shamanic Revelation - Now... Playing this deck for as long as I have, I've found that I don't really need card draw as much as you'd think. With all the ramp spells we have, We can really just start top decking bombs each turn. BUTT (heh heh heh, I said Butt) The other two decks that I have listed might want them. Likely Manamorphose in the high budget version, and Shamanic Revelation in the pure budget version... Hmmm
I will say this though. I looked at your list and noticed a card that I will be adding to my current list. Far Wanderings. I think that would be a pure upgrade over Natural Connection. The Instant speed has never come up, and Wanderings has a chance to grab more lands. They are the same CMC as well... So, ummm... Thank you? lol
Ok everyone!!! I'm here to list all of the changes that have happened since Hour of Devastation has come out! Some of the cards were from that set. Others were added due to ya managing to change my stubborn mind! The more impressive thing is that there have been changes to ALL 3 OF THE DECKLISTS!!!! OMFG! And here we go...
THE MAIN DECK!
- Courser of Kruphix + Firebrand Archer
Well... I finally found a slot for this card. The deck really wanted it and all. IT'S SO GOOD FOR US.
- Natural Connection + Far Wanderings
The instant speed was never a issue for me. Never came up and all. And there's a chance that I may hit the Threshold. So, worse case, they are the same card for me. One of them just may do better every once in a while.
THE BUDGET VERSION!!!
- Feroz's Ban + Firebrand Archer
I waited until the going prices were spoiled before I made this change. At what it is listed, I don't think that we'd have to worry about it going over our budget. And it's SO GOOD!!
- Natural Connection + Shamanic Revelation
So, without some of the more powerful cards that are in the other 2 decks, I thought that this deck could use some card draw. This one is quite a beast.
- Ranger's Path + Far Wanderings
Just trying to speed the deck up a bit
THE ALL COMBO VERSION!!!
- Nissa's Pilgrimage + Samut, the Tested
Ok... There is only one reason why I made this change. Her ult. Effectively it's a T&N that can't be copied. Quite good for our combos and all.
- Throne of the God-Pharaoh + Mana Echoes
Mana Echoes allows for a few more combos. Might as well put it in.
- Kyren Negotiations + Manamorphose
With Throne of the God-Pharaoh coming out, the Negotiations lost a lot of it's luster. So, I'm going to go with a nice piece of early game card draw. Turn 2 I can drop this, draw a card, and still cast a 2 drop ramp.
- Squirrel Nest + Uncage the Menagerie
So, yes. I took the nest combo out. I'm sorry. There is a good reason for that though. The combo just wasn't worth it. So, I hunted down another tutor for us that hits almost every creature that we'd want to see.I don't like the combo anymore because it only works with those 2 cards. At least with the other combos, you can find another card to use if the first one gets taken out. This combo, not so much
Yes, all of this has been updated in the changelogs for the different decks. I just wanted to put it out there. Hopefully in the next few days, I'll have everything needed changed so that I can re-apply for primer status. Hope you all enjoy this update.
As always, any other questions or comments are welcome.
Had a few suggestions. I love this list, and was wondering if you've ever considered a few cards to go to the dome in case your combos fall through? With your commander, it seems Pyromancer's Goggles along with some burn spells like Banefire or Comet Storm would be really nasty. I'm not sure if these would dilute your combo-centric plan too much, but I think it would be nice in that those double as game enders (when aimed at the dome) or they can also serve as spot removal in a pinch?
Had a few suggestions. I love this list, and was wondering if you've ever considered a few cards to go to the dome in case your combos fall through? With your commander, it seems Pyromancer's Goggles along with some burn spells like Banefire or Comet Storm would be really nasty. I'm not sure if these would dilute your combo-centric plan too much, but I think it would be nice in that those double as game enders (when aimed at the dome) or they can also serve as spot removal in a pinch?
Hey hey!! Wazup? Welcome to the page!!!
I first created this deck a few years ago and that version was a burn deck. It really REALLY wasn't good at all. That's why I chose to turn it into this list. Besides being unexpected to every other play group that you run across, it wins FAR more often then the burn version. Also, it's far more fun for everyone that's playing. Yes, it is fun to take out a person early game (or even a full table) with "random X-burn spell" route, it's very easy to stop that plan. Looking at the removal slot, even without cards that are there for just that purpose we have a few things.
All of these cards can double as removal. They also are parts of win cons. They also work better with the deck then running one or two burn spells. In a pinch they can also find ways of being ramp if needed.
It isn't so much the issue that I am afraid of diluting the combo aspect of the deck. Honestly, playing the deck out, combo doesn't happen as often as you'd think. I tried going the all in combo route even (see the 3rd deck list if you want to get an idea of just how "all in combo" we could really become). The pure combo version works so very much better then the burn route. That being said, the main deck is just as much of an improvement over the pure combo version as combo is an improvement over burn. How is that? I focused on the synergy of the entire deck. I made the parts of the deck work better as a functioning whole then just ramp into combo. I even took the combos out that didn't have a place in the deck besides being combo. Because, if you don't have the other parts of it, they are dead cards. Playing this deck, you start running into trouble if you start tunnel visioning into combo only. I honestly win more games long before I can finally get a full combo online. How the deck works together, I don't NEED to one shot anyone. But I am glad that I can due to decks that spit out ALL the tokens or ALL the lifegain. A properly built lifegain deck can gain more life then any amount of burn can take out. But combo wins can win over even having ALL the life, or having all the protection.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, the deck just doesn't need burn. Or at least not a one shot burn spell. The damaging tools that we have are not the one-and-done tools, but work all game long. I think that if you want to use a burn spell, you should go all in with that. You'd get better results that way. With a Wort deck, you could run some of the bigger flashy spells (mostly the G ramp that I don't run). But I'm trying to make the deck work as a unit.
Now... With my rant about burn spells out of the way and attempting to make a difference between combo and synergy in this deck out of the way...
Pyromancer's Goggles - I love this card. I really really do. It should go into more decks. Hell, I know a few decks out there that don't have any burn in them that should run this card. R/U handcycling decks get busted with this. So does B/R removal spells. But lets see here what issues I have with this in my decks.
It's a mana rock. This is bad because it can't be copied with Wort. I really don't want any ramp that doesn't work with her. Also, it only adds
It's 5. I think that it's a bit too much for a ramp spell.
It doesn't copy any of my ramp. At least all my other ramp spells help me ramp even more. Not to mention that it's also deck thinning.
It only works to copy 3 total cards. One of those cards being a card that should never need to be copied Ruination. I'm not sure that it's worth it to copy just two cards. IF I were to add this card, it's likely that I would want to add more cards that would trigger off with it. Right now, there's nothing that comes to mind to add.
With that being said. I like it. But it's currently a worse Fork. If we get blessed with a new red spawn creatures card, I'll give this another look. But until then, and likely even after that, nope. Or at least that's my current opinion. It might change later though.
Well, here we go boys and girls! Our second time looking at a completed spoiler for a set! What we have here is Commander 2017!!! I will be giving my thoughts on any and every card that I think might be worth a look see in here.
Lands
Path of Ancestry - Ok... Now, let's see here. Due to our money hate, I don't see this as being quite good enough of an effect to run it in the main deck, But lets see if it works in the combo build... Including the commander, we have 10 targets that trigger scry.. It's tempting. What do you guys think? It'll help us hit gas at least for after the turn we drop Wort... Now that I say it... That in itself is worth it. Lets see what we can toss for it
Artifacts
Hammer of Nazahn - This might be worth a slot depending on your meta. I don't think that I'll run it in my deck though. Losing any one creature isn't a big deal for me. If you get hated on though, it might be worth it as both protection and the free equips that it can trigger. Herald's Horn - Not going in main deck. Reason being is that we don't need the card draw as much. Not to mention that the cost reduction isn't good enough for us. I'd rather run Goblin Warchief. In the combo build however it adds up more value. Hmmmm... Thoughts? Mirror of the Forebears - Maybe a worse splinter twin? Maybe?
Red
Bloodsworn Steward - Krenko decks want this card. Us, not so much. Damm Crimson Honor Guard - No... Just no. Doesn't work with any of our plans besides to MAYBE draw removal. I'd much rather play something that is worth baiting out removal over this card that doesn't do much. Disrupt Decorum - Doesn't help us. Sorry. Izzet Chemister - Now THIS card might be worth attempting to find a slot. Either just to reuse cards at will, or try to find a stupid way to loop something (there HAS to be a way to pull that off)... Not to mention, it's a gobbo itself. Kindred Charge - If we wanted this effect, we have something better in G. And we aren't using that... So... No thanks.
Green
Kindred Summons - Less good T&N maybe? Not worth it in main deck. The fact that it's a creature demi tutor that's INSTANT SPEED is worth a thought for the combo deck. I'll test it out Traverse the Outlands - Honestly... It's best case is likely a 5 CMC to grab 3 lands. Nope. Sorry.
So yeah. I don't think that this set has given us much of anything really. At least for main deck. I'll be testing the new cards for the combo build but right now, it's a bit of a crapshot. Poo. Oh well... Can't win them all I guess
1. Introduction
2. The commander herself
2.1 Choices for other commanders
3. The Deck in all it's glory
4. And here's the cards
5. Running the deck
5.1 The Early Game
5.2 The Mid Game
5.3 The Late game
5.4 Things that Spill our Drinks
6. How it all works together
6.1 Time to show the world who they should bow down to
6.2 Combo time!!!
7. Fan requested opinions about stuff
8. Changlogs
Well, hello there. This deck list is the first that I've made. And I'm quite proud of sharing it with everyone (finally). The deck that I'm talking about is my second ever EDH deck and my first multi-player deck to boot. And after so long working on it, tweaking it, trying to smooth out the rough parts and finding what works, I've finally made this fat and sassy lady into something that will strike fear in the hearts of your play group. And yet, be fun for both you and your soon to be victims.
I first started playing Magic back in '94 or so. It was a small playgroup of myself, a few of my brothers, and a few of our friends. Basic kitchen table Magic. Green stompy, Red burn, old school mono black discard, a few of the old school 100 card Highlander decks. You know, Same as everyone else. Well, we got older, some of us moved away and I ended up quitting back in '98. Well, eventually one thing after another and a few years ago I ended up moving in with one of my cuz's who played EDH. He'd have some of his friends over and they drink and play. After they found out that I used to play they put a deck in my hands and caught me up to speed on everything that changed in the 15 or so years that I've been gone. Lets just say that I got hooked. I went out, put together my first baby piece by piece and played 1v1 with whoever was game. After a few months, I wanted to make a multi-player deck and hopefully not blow as much money as I did with my first deck. So I was like... RG That's always nice on your wallet, and there are always good cards. So after a bit of thought, I picked up a Wort, the Raidmother (honestly cause it was like under a buck. lol) and grabbed the bulk burn and ramp at the store. Let's just say that it was... Not the best idea that I've ever had..
R - Has the main wincon, has money hate, has a combo monkey, and loves tokens
G - Has ramp, ramp, and token love
GR - Has spells to copy that make tokens!!!!
Since then, I've been working on this deck going with a "all in combo" mindset. Looking at it. After a while, I started looking at a few more ways to win. All out token swarms (that didn't work too well. Really needs either a more dedicated aggro approach to make it work). Then I started finding ways to take advantage of what it already does. Yes, I have way too many combos in here, But lately, just flat out combo doesn't work the best. So I'm going with a combo deck that will win from the interactions that naturally happen before I can combo out. Mostly, I'm just trying to have a deck that I can sit down with, have a few (or more, honestly) drinks with my friends, and have fun. The fact that I can also go to a random LGS, sit down with a few high tier decks, and pull out an upset win a few times. With that in mind, I've taken some of the really unfair things out but you still have some wtf just happened plays to make all day, every day. That I've worked to make the main focus of the deck not be around combos (while still keeping a ton in the deck) has lead to a better deck that isn't afraid of the U mage holding a counterspell in hand.
Due to popular demand, I've created two more decklists to use. They can both be found on the second post of this thread. One is a very budget version even though most would consider this current list to be budget. The second deck is what happens when you really desire to only concentrate on combos. I created the list owing to not running every combo I can think of in the current list, owing to rather focus on other ways to win. That I have 3 deck lists goes to show just how powerful of a commander we have on our hands.
Lets start out with the awesomness of the commander herself. She's a 3/3 for 4 . That means that she has a ok-ish body and if you really wanted to, I guess that you could run her in a otherwise monored or a monogreen deck if you really wanted. We are running green so we don't need to worry about her being a 6 drop at first. And we can likely keep casting her all game long as well. Her type is Goblin Shaman so there is a tribal thing that you could use. To an extent we do. But now... Lets look at her other abilities...
So... That's awesome. Like all ladies, she travels in packs (insert your fav pack of girls going to the bathroom at one time joke here). For us, this means that when we get her in play, she won't be alone at the worst case. That is important due to her next ability...
Now we're getting somewhere!!! That means that, with Wort out, we get double out of all the spells that we cast. The big spells that we cast just win us the game, but more importantly, same with our smaller early game spells are still awesome. It also makes it more worth it to run our spell based ramp instead of shinny rocks. They have roughly the same effect without Wort, but twice the effect with her. Not to mention that in most play groups and LGS's, while spot land destruction is ok and needed, Mass Land Destruction (commonly called MLD) is usually frowned on. So your ramp is safer then having a signet of the like. Not to mention that it is slight deck thinning as well.
As I said earlier, Purphoros, God of the Forge was the main reason why I dropped the burn. After looking at some of the ways to abuse him like a unwanted baby, I noticed that a lot of decks used Krenko, Mob Boss. And that led to a combo build. Eventually, I went with using combos and finding ways to get value off of what I was doing anyhoo. I started finding some really fun cards that fit that role.. Untapping, tapping, ETB and LTB stuff. Tokens are nothing more then resources to you! And I guessss you could just use them to swarm over your opponents and steal their wallets and shoes.
Ok, you've made it this far. Now, the questions that you should be asking yourself is, why this deck list
You might enjoy this list if...
You might not have fun with this list if
Omnath, Locus of Rage - This guy is nice. With all the ramp that we run, he can spit out an army in a heartbeat. Also works to punish wraths. But all he does is spit out tokens. And only his type of tokens so we're limited in what we're doing. Not to mention he doesn't work as well for combo.
Ulasht, the Hate Seed - Same as above. And he wants tokens out before you play him. I could see him working, but not like this deck can.
Rosheen Meanderer - Most Wort decks could be happy with him at the helm. Not us though. We have only 3 spells that work with his ability. If we were burn, maybe. This ain't burn though.
Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter/Rhys the Redeemed - I've ran both. If correctly built, they can spit out tokens so much faster then us... And usually bigger then us as well. But they lack haste and our ways of not needing to move to combat. All the elfball decks out there also fall into this issue as well.
Krenko, Mob Boss/Purphoros, God of the Forge/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - These decks are all the same really. And guess what? We're better! We are using all their tricks and cutting the fat out and adding our toys. Not to mention, they draw ALL the hate right off the bat.
Rith, the Awakener/Tana, the Bloodsower - They both suffer from the same issue. They have to swing in. Granted, they are nuts with the boards they can have, but no thank you
Marath, Will of the Wild/Hazezon Tamar/Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - These 3 decks are what you're looking for if you want tokens. Honestly, they tend to be faster, and they use our gameplan. Thing is though... You are likely just putting a huge target on your head. Or drawing a bit more removal then you want to deal with. Also, you end up taking away combo for utility. I can't complain. I currently run Marath and recently retired Prossh.
Riku of Two Reflections - Ok... This deck if it wanted to can just do us better (esp if they slot Wort in as one of the 99). But what is it that we can do better? We don't need to pay extra mana if we want to copy something. That's actually a big deal. Also, we rarely have to pay attention to the color of mana that we're tapping. They do. They are color thirsty as hell. So a Blood Moon card tends to kill them with ease.
6 Wort, the Raidmother
Lands (34)
1 Kessig Wolf Run
21 Snow-Covered Forest
12 Snow-Covered Mountain
Creatures (15)
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Firebrand Archer
2 Goblin Recruiter
3 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Guttersnipe
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Lightning Crafter
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Siege-Gang Commander
7 Avenger of Zendikar
Artifacts (11)
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Skullclamp
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Thornbite Staff
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Phyrexian Altar
3 Staff of Domination
3 Umbral Mantle
2 Sprout Swarm
3 Harrow
Sorceries (21)
1 Sylvan Offering
1 Tempt with Vengeance
2 Farseek
2 Into the North
2 Nature's Lore
2 Rampant Growth
2 Three Visits
3 Cultivate
3 Far Wanderings
3 Goblin Offensive
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Spoils of Victory
4 Beacon of Creation
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Harmonize
4 Ruination
4 Skyshroud Claim
6 One Dozen Eyes
7 Howl of the Night Pack
7 Tooth and Nail
2 Cryptolith Rite
2 Earthcraft
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Impact Tremors
3 Blood Moon
3 Fervor
3 Fires of Yavimaya
4 Kyren Negotiations
4 Parallel Lives
4 Splinter Twin
4 Tooth and Claw
5 Doubling Season
5 Primal Vigor
6 Warstorm Surge
7 Vicious Shadows
Planeswalkers (1)
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
6 Wort, the Raidmother
Lands (34)
1 Kessig Wolf Run
21 Snow-Covered Forest
12 Snow-Covered Mountain
Ramp (15)
2 Farseek
2 Into the North
2 Nature's Lore
2 Rampant Growth
2 Three Visits
3 Cultivate
3 Far Wanderings
3 Harrow
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Spoils of Victory
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Skyshroud Claim
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
Combo (19)
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Goblin Recruiter
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Impact Tremors
2 Thornbite Staff
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Phyrexian Altar
3 Staff of Domination
3 Umbral Mantle
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Lightning Crafter
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
4 Splinter Twin
4 Tooth and Claw
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
6 Warstorm Surge
7 Vicious Shadows
1 Sylvan Offering
1 Tempt with Vengeance
2 Sprout Swarm
3 Goblin Offensive
4 Beacon of Creation
4 Parallel Lives
5 Doubling Season
5 Primal Vigor
6 One Dozen Eyes
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Howl of the Night Pack
Utility (20)
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Skullclamp
2 Cryptolith Rite
2 Earthcraft
2 Firebrand Archer
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
3 Blood Moon
3 Fervor
3 Fires of Yavimaya
3 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Guttersnipe
3 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Harmonize
4 Kyren Negotiations
4 Ruination
5 Siege-Gang Commander
7 Tooth and Nail
Mind you, if you're creative enough, you can always find a way to use almost any piece in a different group. Don't think that just cause one card is listed as one thing, you can't use it in another way. Almost every card can be used as combo or utility or token creation or ramp. Just want to point that out.
Well, my little buddy... You've made it this far. You've seen the deck. Now, I know that you are a smart person. So, you might be asking yourself just what mind mage messed with my head and made me choose these cards?!?! Fair enough question. Here's my answer.
Lands
Kessig Wolf Run
Any deck that runs GR should run this. Really, it's that good. It's an unexpected wincon with this deck. Either buff a token, or live the dream and smash for the 21. Also fun to use with Basilisk Collar if you're bleeding out like a U mage without a counterspell in hand.
Snow-Covered Forest
21 Snow-Covered Forest. This deck wants it's G as soon as it can. We use them for ramp. All the ramp. Most of our ramp only targets basic lands so we want to be able to hit them. And there are a few cards here that pay attention to the number that we have so Also, we run money hate so we don't want to get screwed by it.
Snow-Covered Mountain
12 Snow-Covered Mountain. We don't need that many. We can either grab what we need with our ramp, or just naturally draw into it. If you are one of those poor souls that just have to run duals, replace Mountains with them. That way, if you have a 'moon effect out, you aren't hurt as much. Though I have issues with that type of knee-jerk reaction.
Creatures
Goblin Chirurgeon
A R all goodstuff piece of utility. Can be used as a free sac outlet and protection for the few creatures that we actually care about. The more that you see him, the more broken he gets. And did I mention free sac outlet!!!
Skirk Prospector
Yet again, another R goodstuff creature. Another free sac outlet that does more then that. it ramps!!! One of the main tools in our combos. Never sad to see his ugly face.
Firebrand Archer
So... This deck really loves to gain value off of doing everything that it already does. This new piece is doing that. Think of it as being another Guttersnipe. less is a plus. Not a goblin. Smaller body. Only half the damage but triggers on over twice as many times. Loves Basilisk Collar.
Goblin Recruiter
This is one of the most powerful creatures in the entire deck. It allows for a stupidly early kill-the-table combo. One of the more common paths to victory and a reason why we can still fight against getting locked out of G. Also, a good-ish Tooth & Nail target I guess.
Goblin Sharpshooter
Utility. Also can be used in a few combos. Takes out other players' token swarms. And of course, he loves his Basilisk Collar. Pulls his weight in here enough to hold a slot.
Guttersnipe
This guy does a surprising amount of work. Granted, he doesn't trigger off of the conspired copy, but I guess you can't win them all. Usually he just draws removal due to your opponents getting sick of getting pinged for a minor amount whenever you ramp. He's saved my butt a few times when I was lucky enough to slap a Basilisk Collar on him and ramp a few times (6 player FFA). Also loves being out there when you are recasting Sprout Swarm a few times.
Magus of the Moon
Money hate on a stick! Really... This and his buddy Blood Moon have saved me at way too many LGS's that I've walked in. Has been known to cause rage quits. If you sit down at a table with everyone else playing tier 1 decks and you have this in your opening hand, you're likely to win. Oh, your land base alone is worth more then this entire deck? I don't stand a chance.... One of the main reasons why I run a lot of basics in all my decks now... I've been screwed by someone playing this card before. -(note, just added Ruination to the list of money hate as of 6/9/17)
Goblin Ringleader
Part two of our likely wincon. Goblin Recruiter into this usually means game over. See combo section for more info.
Krenko, Mob Boss
You know when I said that we don't need our commander to win? Yeah... This is one of the reasons. This beady eyed guy is one of our "secondary commanders". Anyone that knows what he does will panic the second they see him. Dropping him turn 3 isn't unheard of. And all he needs is a turn or two and he can take an entire table out by himself. We have all the tools in the deck that are used when he's his own Commander besides the things that G just does better.
Lightning Crafter
Combo piece. Removal. And wrath protection. This guy does it all. Usually used as a wincon. Loves Basilisk Collar
Oracle of Mul Daya
G goodstuff. Really should be in any and every deck that runs G. I can't sing her praises enough. Ramps more then you'd expect. Gets those lands off your topdeck so you can get to the rest. In that way, she works as limited card draw for you.
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Secondary commander #2. This guy is broken as hell. Nothing that anyone can say will convince me otherwise. All wincon here. When you are spitting out as many tokens as we are, this guy will kill off the entire table in the blink of an eye. Tooth and Nail will grab him and Avenger of Zendikar for a GG out of nowhere. Try not to turn him on to keep him safe. But if he's live, slap a Basilisk Collar on him and go to town! Even if you don't win that second, you'll likely gain enough life to put you ahead for the rest of the game.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
And finally, secondary commander #3. All combo, all the time. Thankfully, he comes with haste already, cause he won't survive longer then a turn. So broken. So good. Yeah... See the combo section for more detail why he's boss here.
Siege-Gang Commander
Fun little card. I has a foil one too :D. Drunk party girls here does so much. (yes, I watch Commander Vs. by Star city games) Ok sized body. Brings friends. And can act as removal. Loves Basilisk Collar. Loves Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Splinter Twin more.
Avenger of Zendikar
Tooth and Nail target #2. In this deck, it'll rarely give a pump to it's tokens. Usually the table dies before the next land drop you get . There's a reason why he's been nicknamed "Army in a can". Loves Kiki and Twin.
Artifacts
Basilisk Collar
Nifty card in this deck. One of the few ways to deal with the table. Really loves getting put on Goblin Sharpshooter, Siege-Gang Commander and Guttersnipe.
Skullclamp
Broken card in this deck. Anyone that has played tokens runs this. It's one of the best ways to get card advantage printed. I'll gladly pay 1 and a token to draw 2 cards. Any and all token decks run this.
Illusionist's Bracers
One of the weaker of my combo pieces. Might get cut one of these days, but for now is worth the slot. Usually just one activation of this on Krenko, Mob Boss gives you an army. Also loves most of your other goblins.
Swiftfoot Boots
The hexproof comes in handy every once in a while, but we try to not get too attached to any one creature. I mostly just use it for the haste.
Thornbite Staff
One of our main combo pieces. Slap it on Krenko, Mob Boss or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with a sac outlet and go to town!
Throne of the God-Pharaoh
This is a new toy for us. I'm trying to find other ways to win besides just comboing out or swarming the table. Even just attacking one person with a few tokens pays off at end of turn. Also works well with Cryptolith Rite, Earthcraft and Kyren Negotiations.
Ashnod's Altar
Sac outlet. Combo piece. Ramp. Yep, never coming out of here.
Hammer of Purphoros
Haste is good. Haste is very good. I don't think that I've ever used the other ability in a game.
Phyrexian Altar
All star!!! Really. This card does everything that we want. Free sac outlet. Ramp. Combo piece. There's a reason why it keeps going up in $$$.
Staff of Domination
This card does it all. There's a reason why it used to be banned. Not sad in the slightest that I have it in my deck. It wins games.
Umbral Mantle
Funny thing... This combo tool just may put in more work then either Staff of Domination or Thornbite Staff in this deck. Also, once allowed me to punch someone in the face with my commander for the win (don't expect it, but the chance is there).
Instants
Sprout Swarm
Yes, I know. You laugh that I'm running it. I don't care. It will always do more work then anyone expects. Helps us recover from wraths and one of the few tools to fight against board stalls. Can't see ever taking it out. Try it and you'll see.
Harrow
You know... For the longest time, I never noticed that this was an instant. For real. But anyhoo. Solid piece of ramp. If you can cast it with your commander out it gets so much better.
Sorceries
Sylvan Offering
One of our token producing spells. We don't care if we give tokens to other players. Mostly just care about the 1/1's. The big treefolk aren't exactly what we are looking for but they can be used as a board presence.
Tempt with Vengeance
Same as above. Trade off a big one for haste. Usually will get more tokens as well.
Farseek Rampant Growth Nature's Lore Three Visits Into the North
Our 2 drop ramp spells. Great for early game. Still good when we can conspire them with our commander. It's that they work with Wort being the reason why we use them instead of mana rocks. Added Into the North - 6/13/17
Cultivate Kodama's Reach Nissa's Pilgrimage Spoils of Victory Far Wanderings
Our 3 drop ramp spells. We love our ramp.
Goblin Offensive
More tokens!! We love this spell. Conspire makes it broken
Beacon of Creation
More tokens!! And because we can stuff it back into our deck, we can play it early to get us some chumps and play it again when we want to win. Also yet another reason why we run so many forests.
Explosive Vegetation Skyshroud Claim
Our 4 drop ramp spells. We can't get enough ramp. Note that like Spoils of Victory Three Visits Nature's Lore and Harrow, Skyshroud Claim puts the lands into play untapped. That allows us to go right into another ramp spell the same turn.
Harmonize
Card draw. Very helpful after you dumped your hand on all your starting ramp. This will give you a refill that you'll need. Also, very awesome if you conspire it.
Ruination
Money hate. New inclusion. I guess the other two pieces didn't get the point across quite enough. There are a lot of decks that are bad match ups against us. Money hate is (after much testing) a far more effective answer to them then trying to play their game. Also quite underused. R always gets talked about like it's the worst color in EDH. That's because nobody is willing to use the tools that it has.
One Dozen Eyes
More tokens!! We love this spell. Conspire makes it broken. Not to mention that it can also bring beef.
Howl of the Night Pack
You know what I said about Beacon of Creation and forests? Same here. Trades being able to be recast again for bigger bodies.
Tooth and Nail
If this spell goes off, it's good game. My fav targets are Purphoros, God of the Forge and Avenger of Zendikar. Although you can also grab the combo of Goblin Recruiter and Goblin Ringleader. Bonus points if you grab all 4 at once
Enchantments
Cryptolith Rite Earthcraft
We can use our tokens for ramp!!! Need I say more? Also works wonderful with the new card Throne of the God-Pharaoh. Does more work for us then our opponents would think.
Goblin Bombardment
What to do when you have a bilzillion tokens? You throw them at your opponents' face like a boss!!! (bonus points if you actually flick the tokens at their face). Also a way to take out more then a few problem creatures. Don't forget. Your tokens, hell, all your creatures are nothing more then resources and tools for you to use. This is a free sac outlet. And if you have an army on the table and someone tries to wrath, this will punish them.
Impact Tremors
Awww... It's a baby Purphoros, God of the Forge... Same role her as his daddy. Really can't say more.
Blood Moon
Did you pay attention to what I said about Magus of the Moon? Same thing here. You trade off a body for making it a bit harder to get rid of. -(note, I just added Ruination to this list to help get the point across as of 6/9/17)
Fervor Fires of Yavimaya
I hear that one sided haste is good every once in a while.. Same use as Hammer of Purphoros
Kyren Negotiations
Another use for our tokens. Gets pass pillowforts.
Splinter Twin
Combo card. Very broken. It's favorite targets are Siege-Gang Commander and Avenger of Zendikar because while the copy leaves play at end of turn, we get to keep the tokens that come in with the copy. More then a few of the Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combos work with this card as well.
Tooth and Claw
Makes 1/1's into something bigger. Also a combo piece.
Parallel Lives Doubling Season Primal Vigor
What's better then tokens? Twice the tokens! Also used in some of our better combos. The first 2 allow Sylvan Offering and Tempt with Vengeance to be on our side. And we are one of the few decks to use Doubling Season fairly.
Warstorm Surge
We might as well get some more use out of our tokens entering the battlefield. You can throw the damage at someone's facehole or take out creatures. Your choice. This is one of the few decks that can get use out of this card.
Vicious Shadows
You know how most ppl deal with token decks? They wrath. Over and over until said token deck runs out of steam. This card is the answer to that tactic. I've played this card, the table forgets about it, someone clears the board.... I point out that they just took everyone out Not to mention that we'll be sac'ing our tokens anyhoo so it's all win.
Planeswalkers
Xenagos, the Reveler
Currently, I'm only running Xenagos, the Reveler here. And it's broken as hell!!! No Joke!!! The +1 is all the ramp, the +0 spawns a body. We'll never use the ult unless we need Goblin Ringleader and it already died on us.
So. You now have this awesome decklist. Now, how do I run it you ask? Why are you asking me? Oh yeah, I'm the one writting this.
...
Ok... So... These nice people with the pitchforks and blunt objects are saying that I didn't give enough info to you guys. Hmmm.... Can I just be lazy and send you to other primers that are also using some of these combos? No? *sigh* ok everyone, grab a seat...
It's around this time that I would tell you to start off playing a bunch of goldfish games first. While once you get a hang of the deck, it's reflex, but until then, you will have to learn to pay attention to both triggers and what you have out. There are more ways to combo off then you are likely used to and not all of them show themselves at first. The main idea that you will be trying to do is abusing these things as much as you can. Whenever you can.
-Please note-
This deck runs money hate. For those who don't know what that is, money hate are cards that punish effects that are usually found in cards that hold a higher price then normal. We don't run the anti-tutor versions of those cards, but we go after their land bases. In this way, we don't need to run utility lands like Strip Mine to take care of any problematic lands. To make sure that our money hate doesn't affect us, we use basic lands (right now, snow basic lands). I have tried to run dual's and utility lands instead of money hate. After much testing, I have found that running the hate just works better then having the "better mana base". Not to mention that our money hate won't just even the odds. Against the best decks out there, we can lock them out of the game at turn 3. Usually, we won't be able to fully lock out a table even if we drop Blood Moon turn 3, but, we can send them behind around 6-8 turns on average due to it taking that long for the table to get a cast able answer. It's mean of us, yes. But at least we aren't trying to do infinite turns or other b.s. like that.
So. You drew your opening 7. What are you looking for? You are looking for a forest, 1-2 other lands, and 1-2 ramp spells. That's what we want. Anything else is just gravy. Toss any hands that don't have that. I would also think about getting rid of any hand that has more then one 5cmc card but your mileage may vary. You don't need much. The deck is built so that you'll naturally draw into anything that you want and/or need. Between the ramp that this deck has and how low the CMC for the deck in it's entirety is, you should be good no matter what.
The first few turns, you're just going to ramp. And usually dump your entire hand. That's about it. Don't worry about anything really. Let the other people at the table establish a board presence. It's no real issue to you. You want to be seen doing stuff, but not being the #1 target. Try to not piss anyone out. Until mid game, you're likely going to take some damage. Oh well. Just play your hand. Try to get stuff out on the field. For some reason, having a bare board makes someone a target for an entire table. Get a creature out, or even use up a token generating spell. Drop a few artifacts or enchantments. Something, anything. Well... There's 4 cards that I wouldn't play. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Goblin Recruiter, and Goblin Ringleader. Kiki will normally die without doing anything. Recruiter and Ringleader will 99% of the time just hose you due to you not having enough mana or pieces to take advantage of either of them. Big daddy P makes you THE target and it's too early to take advantage of him enough. You can usually either lie low for people to not target you or hide in plain sight by talking to everyone. Depends on your soon to be victims and your skills and personality. As always your mileage may vary depending on yourself and the meta. There is one thing that I must point out. If you have an early game Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon, ignore what I said about being careful to not piss the table off!! Play it as soon as you can!!! While yes, it may piss off the table, it's likely to shut them down for a good part of the game if not the entire game so they won't be able to do anything about it. Really, money hate is one of the two reasons why we run all basics besides Kessig Wolf Run (and if you just happen to have a spare one laying around Gaea's Cradle ). I've tried running non basics in here and it's backfired due to those effects. I'd much rather have a basic land base and keep my money hate. Money hate just shuts down so many other decks. Esp the decks that we have problems with. The other reason why we run all basics is that a lot of our ramp spells find basics. And even considering that we don't need every single land on the board, if our commander isn't shut down, it can happen soon. I never liked being turn ten or so, casting a ramp and cause I had duals and the like, having to say "failed to find". Early game is until you have 6 mana every turn.
Ok.. So you have your 6 mana... What next?
Just play it out. Go ahead and play Wort if you want to. Or that is usually the first thing you try to do once you have the mana for it. It's what the table expects from us anyhoo, so we might as well make them happy. Doesn't hurt us much if she gets countered or removed. Getting removed in most cases is better though. At least that way you still have her tokens. I tried my best (and think that I did damm well too) so that if we couldn't cast Wort or keep her out, it wouldn't be good game for us. Most other Wort decks just tend to flop around like a fish on dry land if they can't copy their spells. This one doesn't. Though, if she stays out, try casting something. Anything that we cast is going to hit like a brick to the face. At this point, anything she does will take 2 counterspells to fully stop (they have to counter both the original and the copy). If you get a ramp out with her, congrats. You just pulled ahead. Go you!
Well, what happens if she doesn't stick? Wait till you have the mana for it and cast her again. It'll help bait out counterspells and removal. We can usually keep casting her all game long if needed. or until we find something better to do. And if they manage to keep her off the field, then what do we do? Easy!!! Just keep playing whatever you have. It doesn't matter. The deck is built so that stuff works together in almost any order or combination with or without the commander. If she's out, all the better, if not, oh well. At this point you might want to go for the Goblin Recruiter win. It's big and splashy enough that either you win or (if stopped) everyone will breath a sigh of relief and think that you're out of the game (at least for a while) Silly fools. They don't know what they're dealing with. Try to drop some more tokens. Now is also a good time to bring out Krenko, Mob Boss if you haven't already. Even if you can't combo out, he'll do work for you. If you can get a board out, don't forget to swing for some damage if the way is open. Or set up a way to do damage in another way. Show that you are still in the game. People get twitchy if all you're doing is stockpiling an army of 1/1's so don't be afraid to lose some of them. This is the beginning of the time that you can out of nowhere just win. Usually on a topdeck. Just a warning. The first time you try to combo out, it'll likely fail. Oh well. Don't worry.
Hey you! With the face!... We're at the most dangerous time of the game. When anyone could win at any given second. But not to worry. We can do the same. And more often then not, we can not just try to slip one combo or wincon out a turn. We can go for 2-3 a turn. Be reckless! Go big or go home! Don't hold back anything!! This is the time that you're likely to also pull the most nuts stuff out. Do you want to spawn 258,000 tokens or do that much damage in one turn without being able to go infinite? Now is your chance! Big epic plays are the mark of our beloved format. Show the table that we have earned our spot at the EDH table!!!
So... You might ask me, what cards or strategies might work to stop us. Nothing!!! Muhahahahahahaha!!! Well, I guess there are a few things that could be a pain for us to deal with.. Maybe..
In this deck, we have 2 major ways to pull out a win. Thankfully, neither of them are "throw multiple spells at someone's face. I just find that boring. The two ways that we are going to try to pull out a win are by either finding value off of tokens or our creature in ways that aren't just swarming the hillside, and combo. The choice of what you will be doing is chosen by a few things. Your personality and playstyle. Your meta and the board state as the game goes on. And also by what you draw into.
But anyhoo... I always say, in this deck, try to get value on stuff. Even if it's only a little bit. As my ex told me once. Even the smallest thing can put a smile on someone's face. What I mean with that, is that, even without a big splashy play, a few points of damage can add up over the course of a game. So, without going into combos, lets see what we can do with our tokens and other creatures..
Guttersnipe
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Avenger of Zendikar
Impact Tremors
Warstorm Surge
These cards have effects when something comes into play. Your job is to try to beat the table with them as often as you can. They also tend to do the most damage over the course of a game when you aren't going to combo off quite yet. Things like this list also gain you value due to your combo only being ETB/LTB triggers.
Purphoros, God of the Forge - For his buff
Sprout Swarm
Xenagos, the Reveler
Cryptolith Rite
Earthcraft
Kyren Negotiations
Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Xenagos, the Reveler
With this deck, there is ALWAYS something to do... Always. Look for it and you will earn your victory beer.
Skirk Prospector
Goblin Sharpshooter
Skullclamp
Ashnod's Altar
Phyrexian Altar
Goblin Bombardment
Vicious Shadows
Your creature, when they leave the mortal coil, should not just be dying!!! We want to gain at least a little value, if not more from them going to the great speakeasy in the sky. These are the tools to get return value for them.
Now, even with all of our different ways to win, what else do we have. Well... We have combos!!! It's not as many as it looks like. Buttt...(heh heh heh, I just said butt) There are many variations on each combo. It's really a mix and match type of thing. It makes it so much harder for anyone to actually stop us. We really get to the point that someone can just start getting rid of things in the deck and yet, they can't hit everything. And even if we can't just fully combo out, we can usually gain a stupid amount of value off of the "incomplete" combo by using our other cards (ETB/LTB/Just having more tokens out). So, with that being said, here's some of the more common combos we can do.
Parallel Lives
Doubling Season
Primal Vigor
With these cards, we're getting double the advantage off of Kiki. That's not just awesome, but allows us to go off easier even if we're just targeting something small like a Goblin Chirurgeon as our target to copy. But lets also look at the cards that allow us to untap Kiki and see what we can do.
Staff of Domination
Umbral Mantle
Let's look at these in greater detail, shall we?
Earthcraft
Kyren Negotiations
Sprout Swarm
before sac'ing them.
* note that you will also gain the benefits of any ETB/LTB and whatever you are using as a sac outlet
- Doubling Season + Ashnod's Altar = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Primal Vigor + Ashnod's Altar = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Parallel Lives + Phyrexian Altar + Cryptolith Rite = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Doubling Season + Phyrexian Altar + Cryptolith Rite = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Primal Vigor + Phyrexian Altar + Cryptolith Rite = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Parallel Lives + Phyrexian Altar + Earthcraft = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Doubling Season + Phyrexian Altar + Earthcraft = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Primal Vigor + Phyrexian Altar + Earthcraft = infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Parallel Lives + Ashnod's Altar + Cryptolith Rite = infinite mana + infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Doubling Season + Ashnod's Altar + Cryptolith Rite = infinite mana + infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Primal Vigor + Ashnod's Altar + Cryptolith Rite = infinite mana + infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Parallel Lives + Ashnod's Altar + Earthcraft = infinite mana + infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Doubling Season + Ashnod's Altar + Earthcraft = infinite mana + infinite ETB/LTB effects
- Primal Vigor + Ashnod's Altar + Earthcraft = infinite mana + infinite ETB/LTB effects
note that in these combos, if the token is a goblin, you may replace Phyrexian Altar with Skirk Prospector
Infinite mana = infinite card draw, life, and infinite tokens.
gets out of control if you have 2 of our token doubblers out at the same time.
The Kiki-Crafter combo works somewhat the same as shown.
- Play Lightning Crafter
- When Crafter is not suffering from being summon sick, enchant it with Splinter Twin
- Tap Crafter to make a copy of itself. Champion original Crafter.
- Tap the copy to bolt. Use any sac outlet on the copy to get original Crafter back untapped.*
Edit Note - Please forget this combo. When I got to this section, I must of been a bit too tired. Neither myself, nor my proof readers caught that this doesn't work. I'm sorry. My bad. Shout out to arrogantAxolotl for catching it. I told you I'd give ya credit soThe Goblin Sharpshooter combo is a bit the same. You will need to have either Parallel Lives, Doubling Season, Primal Vigor Illusionist's Bracers or a sac outlet as seen (2 versions)
Well, to start things off, there are a few cards that just this guy. Illusionist's Bracers, Parallel Lives, Doubling Season, and Primal Vigor pull their weight to make Krenko spawn a army ASAP. Another card that loves him is Skullclamp. Talk about card draw. We'll gladly trade some tokens for cards. With Krenko, we have tokens to spare. And of course, we so love our ETB/LTB effects and Krenko helps fuel them.
But I'm betting that you want to know more ways to go off with him. Well, cause of the nature of his ability, in many ways he gets out of hand easier then Kiki-Jiki. How is this you may ask? I'll show you
They are wrong!!! This card works so hard in this deck!!!
How does this card pull off such magic you may ask? Well, in the spirit of the free keg of beer that I scored today, I'll tell you how.
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Thornbite Staff
Vicious Shadows
Warstorm Surge
Impact Tremors
that trigger off one or the other of those effects. Not bad if I say so myself. Even just a single token doubling effect allows you to go infinite by sac'ing the same 2 tokens over and over.
Earthcraft
Kyren Negotiations
Sprout Swarm
... before sac'ing them. Might as well lol.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Goblin Chirurgeon
Skirk Prospector
Lightning Crafter
So, already I've gotten asked why I'm not running (insert card here). And have been asked about cards that I like, but don't quite make the cut for this deck. For the cards that are finding their ways in and out of this deck but only last a playtesting, and fun cards that might make a slot on a slight variant of this deck I think I'll keep track and tell my thoughts about it. In this list I'll also give my thoughts about any card that gets brought up in this thread (not counting spoiler season comments, those will be made as new sets come out. So, this part will hopefully always be "under construction" and updated as we go. Maybe that will help if I get all the comments so that someone doesn't have to go through all of them to find my thoughts on a card. As always, I look forward to your comments. And remember, card choice is often chosen by personal playstyle and your meta. As I keep on saying (for good reason), your mileage may vary!
Please note. All changes to the deck that are listed here are the ones that I have made since I have made this post. Changes that happened before then are not in here.
6/9/17 - Blasting Station +Ruination This change was made due to the fact that blasting station was on it's way out anyhoo and I kept getting complaints about why I only run basic lands. I thought that I properly explained my reasoning for it. but it looks like I didn't. This change is to address that issue of not getting the point across well enough. We have issues against higher budget decks. Thankfully, one of the best tools out there to fight against higher budget decks is to punish them for running fancy land bases. R can and should do that with ease. Money hate is one of it's strengths and that very few ppl are willing to use it is one of the biggest reasons why it's so thought of that it's by far and away the weakest color in EDH.
6/13/17 - Beastmaster Ascension +Into the North So... I've been getting really screwed over from the Ascension as of late. Not really feeling it and all. So, when I was informed of Into the North, I know what card I was wanting to get rid of. I'm not going to ignore another 2cmc ramp spell if I can help it. Also, it leads us into the other change today...
- 21 Forest - 12 Mountain + 21 Snow-Covered Forest + 12 Snow-Covered Mountain. So yeah. I changed my land base into snow lands all for the inclusion of Into the North. Worth it, though how to get the deck foiled out?
7/6/17 - Courser of Kruphix + Firebrand Archer Well... I finally found a slot for this card. The deck really wanted it and all. IT'S SO GOOD FOR US.
7/25/17 - Natural Connection + Far Wanderings The instant speed was never a issue for me. Never came up and all. And there's a chance that I may hit the Threshold. So, worse case, they are the same card for me. One of them just may do better every once in a while.
6/2/17 - changelogs added
6/3/17 - Added other commanders section
- early game finished
- mid game finished
- late game finished
6/4/17 - Crafter and Sharpshooter tips added
- Tooth and claw tips added
- Adding Recruiter and Ringleader to utility goblins section cause why not
- Added Kiki combos to the list.
- Added Splinter Twin combos to the list
6/5/17 - Added Krenko combos to list
- Added Deck changelog
- Added in-and-out section
6/6/17 - Added meta choices and thoughts due to requests from fans
6/7/17 - Added Things that spill our drinks section
- Added budget list on second post
6/8/17 - Now with fancy lines
- Cleaned a few things up in the list to make it look a bit better. Added a bit more advice in the Running the Deck section
6/9/17 - Cleaned up a few more issues due to advice. Yeah, we're killing it like Sean Bean
6/10/17 - Added table of contents and links
- Added table of contents!
6/14/17 - Came back home after my friend's wedding (didn't get to play any games all extended weekend) and figured that I'd fix a few small spots to make it easier to read (did away with my love of writing things in all caps and changed it to bold or something else. I would like it if I had some response to that slight change.
6/22/17 - Added decklist by function (by request). I don't like it because the main strength of this deck is that one can use almost any card for any use. Not just for one thing.
- Decklist is now in the database!! Whoot whoot
6/30/17 - Added Hour of Devastation review (post # 12)
7/8/17 - Sent application for primer status... Wish me luck *crosses fingers*
7/25/17 - Got my response back from the Primer committee a few days ago. After drinking my pity away I'm starting to work on the minor things that I was asked to fix.
- Put cards in the deck list in correct order.
- Corrected the Splinter-Crafter combo and gave shout out to the one that caught it.
- Did first work on fixing the navigation links. Hopefully they are in the correct spot now
- Corrected the Oracle Text for the commander.
- Added the amount of each card type to the two deck lists.
- Added note that the second post is for the two other deck lists
8/10/17 - Added C17 review (post # 20)
Goblin Green Acres
OK peeps. Now I know that my main list is what most of you would already consider a budget deck for EDH. Cause, well, it is in a lot of cases. "But Dracos, can we still cut some money out and still do this game plan?" YES! Yes we can. It doesn't combo out as hard, But that's OK. We just add a few more pieces of money hate in and let those Zur decks break down and cry.
6 Wort, the Raidmother
Lands (34)
1 Kessig Wolf Run
21 Forest
12 Mountain
Creatures (14)
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Firebrand Archer
2 Goblin Recruiter
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Guttersnipe
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Lightning Crafter
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
5 Siege-Gang Commander
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Chancellor of the Forge
Artifacts (10)
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Skullclamp
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Thornbite Staff
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Blasting Station
3 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Umbral Mantle
2 Sprout Swarm
3 Harrow
Sorceries (22)
1 Sylvan Offering
1 Tempt with Vengeance
2 Dragon Fodder
2 Farseek
2 Krenko's Command
2 Nature's Lore
2 Rampant Growth
3 Cultivate
3 Far Wanderings
3 Goblin Offensive
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Spoils of Victory
4 Beacon of Creation
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Harmonize
4 Ruination
4 Skyshroud Claim
5 Shamanic Revelation
6 One Dozen Eyes
7 Howl of the Night Pack
7 Revel of the Fallen God
2 Cryptolith Rite
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Impact Tremors
3 Beastmaster Ascension
3 Fervor
3 Fires of Yavimaya
4 Burning Earth
4 Kyren Negotiations
4 Outpost Siege
4 Primal Order
4 Parallel Lives
4 Splinter Twin
4 Tooth and Claw
5 Primal Vigor
6 Warstorm Surge
7 Vicious Shadows
Planeswalkers (1)
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
The play style is still mostly the same for this version. I tried to keep the cards under $10. Meh. I had fun running this version myself. If you don't want the money hate in here.. Maybe go for some of the card draw spells... I found that money hate went further though. Also note, if you want to run Into the North and snow covered basic lands, feel free to do so. I just didn't put them in here because while each card is under budget, all together, it DOES add quite a bit to the list in terms of $$$. You'd be better off grabbing something like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker instead for your money. *shrugs*
6 Wort, the Raidmother
Lands (34)
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Highland Weald
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Sheltered Thicket
14 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
1 Temple of the False God
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (15)
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Goblin Recruiter
3 Combat Celebrant
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Lightning Crafter
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
5 Ant Queen
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Siege-Gang Commander
5 Zealous Conscripts
6 Great Oak Guardian
7 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Thornbite Staff
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Phyrexian Altar
3 Staff of Domination
3 Umbral Mantle
Instants (4)
2 Manamorphose
2 Sprout Swarm
3 Chord of Calling
3 Harrow
Sorceries (20)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Offering
1 Tempt with Vengeance
2 Dragon Fodder
2 Farseek
2 Into the North
2 Krenko's Command
2 Nature's Lore
2 Rampant Growth
2 Three Visits
2 Time of Need
2 Tormenting Voice
2 Uncage the Menagerie
2 Wild Guess
3 Cultivate
3 Goblin Offensive
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Beacon of Creation
4 Skyshroud Claim
7 Tooth and Nail
2 Cryptolith Rite
2 Earthcraft
2 Goblin Bombardment
2 Impact Tremors
3 Fervor
3 Fires of Yavimaya
4 Mana Echoes
4 Outpost Siege
4 Parallel Lives
4 Splinter Twin
4 Tooth and Claw
5 Doubling Season
5 Primal Vigor
6 Warstorm Surge
Planeswalkers (1)
4 Samut, the Tested
Here, I'll show you some of the combos that are not found in the main deck list.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Zealous Conscripts
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Great Oak Guardian
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Combat Celebrant
Splinter Twin and Zealous Conscripts
Splinter Twin and Great Oak Guardian
Splinter Twin and Combat Celebrant
Sprout Swarm - On a bare board, Echoes turns into this.
...
I just found that doing this plan just doesn't work as well. Not to mention that it isn't as fun. Even if you add even more anti U tools, we just don't have enough hard tutors in our colors to grab our combo pieces to make it worth it.
With both of these deck lists, I'm more then happy to talk with others about them. Hell, I might end up needing to put up a changelog for both of these decks if I get enough questions about them.
Well... What do you know, I DID have to put in a change for this deck...
I waited until the going prices were spoiled before I made this change. At what it is listed, I don't think that we'd have to worry about it going over our budget. And it's SO GOOD!!
- Natural Connection + Shamanic Revelation
So, without some of the more powerful cards that are in the other 2 decks, I thought that this deck could use some card draw. This one is quite a beast.
- Ranger's Path + Far Wanderings
Just trying to speed the deck up a bit
Ok... There is only one reason why I made this change. Her ult. Effectively it's a T&N that can't be copied. Quite good for our combos and all.
- Throne of the God-Pharaoh + Mana Echoes
Mana Echoes allows for a few more combos. Might as well put it in.
- Kyren Negotiations + Manamorphose
With Throne of the God-Pharaoh coming out, the Negotiations lost a lot of it's luster. So, I'm going to go with a nice piece of early game card draw. Turn 2 I can drop this, draw a card, and still cast a 2 drop ramp.
- Squirrel Nest + Uncage the Menagerie
So, yes. I took the nest combo out. I'm sorry. There is a good reason for that though. The combo just wasn't worth it. So, I hunted down another tutor for us that hits almost every creature that we'd want to see. So, yeah... If anyone is wondering about the combo in question, it goes like this
- 1 Snow-Covered Mountain + Highland Weald
Might as well... It's a dual land that I have one card to fetch it. Not any real loss if it CIPT I guess.
Goblin Green Acres
My main question revolves around the use of creature tutors. I know that you stated you'd prefer to avoid tutoring, but I also see the Tooth and Nail in the list and I wonder if you've had a chance to test out some of the other green creature tutors? In particular, I'm thinking that Chord of Calling and Time of Need would be really good in this shell. Chord is just amazing in general, of course, but with all the tokens you're throwing around it seems like the convoke part would be especially solid. With X=5 conspired at the end of turn, Wort could untap with Purphoros and Krenko in play for extra fun. Time of Need is a bit jankier, but almost all the creatures you really want to find are legendary and it's hard to turn down a two mana tutor. Unless, as I suspect, you're looking to edge away from that sort of consistency, which I completely understand.
I really appreciate the Throne of the God-Pharaoh. I've been trying to get that to work in a Rishkar, Peema Renegade list, so I'd love to hear your experiences with it. I also am playing around with Harvest Season in that list from Amonkhet; seems like it could do some good work conspired in a Wort deck.
Thanks for posting!
Thank you for reading!!! You made my day lol
Your comment about Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Purphoros, God of the Forge is a bit duh. Cause all 3 of those cards have the same issue. If you're running any of those decks, you are running not just the other 2 cards in the deck, You use the same deck for all 3 cards. To the point that you can switch out the commander for any of them.
The funny thing about T&N is that, I might end up taking it out of that deck list before too long. Likely for a card draw or one of my boys or my girls. All of them find space in this deck and have pulled their weight before. Before too long, I'll be finishing up the OC, doing a game plan section, and listing combos and fun tricks that the deck can use that might not be noticed at first glance. I would love for this to get primer status. In that vein, I'll be putting up an additional 2 more deck lists. One being a budget version ( had to make it after a former roommate decided that she didn't want to pay rent for a few months (was a pain to buy those cards back from the LGS)) that might of had as good of a win record as this one, and a "unfair" list that runs tutors and the Kiki-twin combos. Time of Need will def make it's way in that variant. (honestly, never knew that card existed, wasn't playing during that time so THANK YOU!!!) It just sucks that I type VERY SLOW and my computer keeps crashing so I wanted to put something up at least and just add to it. MORE WILL BE COMMING I PROMISE!!
Harvest Season and a few other cards like that I look at as win more. This deck, while loving ramp, doesn't need all of it's lands out to work. I can win off of just 5 lands (nut draw, and someone cheated out Iona naming green). Though, it might take the place of Explosive Veggies one day just for the CC of the deck. I really love the curve of the deck and that I can usually still use every bit of mana every turn one way or another. -edit- also, notice that while if this card is conspired, worse case it's a conspired explosive veggies for 1 less, if cast in a vacuum, it doesn't fetch anything. I think that's the reason I didn't like it. all my ramp should be good both as is and conspired
Considering that the 'Throne is still in testing, I love it! Namely for it's way to get around a artifact lock down from mono red artifacts. (Can't attack, guy has torpor orb, he's hexproof, and bit of damage resistance) Also a way to draw removal to save the lives of my other combo cards. So far i'm giving it a 9/10
Goblin Green Acres
Goblin Green Acres
Goblin Green Acres
Fellow Wort player here! I'm just getting back to it after a hiatus, and she still feels just as exciting as I remember. My list is more of a spellslinger/control variant, but I've played Wort as a token general and also as a weird voltron list. I look forward to good discussion about her potential as a commander!
GRWort, Control
UBDralnu, Reanimator
Well, welcome back! Yet another person to join me as we offer ourselves to our new goblin overlords.. Or in this case overlady? Hmmm... I should think longer about a better title for her...
ANYHOO!
I think that there are many ways to run her is the main point is saying that she deserves to be known as a competitive commander. At least in multiplayer. She just doesn't get any serious lovin or attention. I'm hoping to change that. Cause lets face it. She actually has the tools to take down some of the best competition out there, it's just are we going to hunt them down and use them or not? I say that we should!!!
Goblin Green Acres
So, I finally got around to posting the 3rd version of the deck. Sorry it took so long. Just wanted everyone to know that I did a thing! Currently waiting to see if anything will be released for any of the 3 decks in HofD.
I will assume that any comments from this point on will be directed about the OP, unless you specify that you're talking about a different one of the decks. Please let me know which one in that case. And thank you to everyone that has said anything either here or through IM. I'm always ready for a talk about my baby. And the word of mouth is going great! I'm still not in the database and I'm getting a ton of views! Whoot whoot!!!
Goblin Green Acres
Whoot whoot! Another Wort player! Thank you for visiting my list and commenting! You're awesome!!!
I thought I explained my reasoning for not running a few of these cards.
-Second Harvest - Every time I had this, it just turned into win-more. Maybe it's just me though.. I have the bad habit of some cards just not working for me. Feel free to try it out yourself. Can see this in an aggro build
It really was more of a hit or miss thing in this build. Either the board was blank and it was worthless, it would make me too much of a target without letting me win, or it was just win-more. I was so excited when I first saw it spoiled, but it just didn't work for me no matter how much I wanted it to. But, it could be just me, hence why I made a mention for it.
-Early Harvest/ Battle Hymn - Yes, these cards can make a stupid amount of mana. Same could be said about Rude Awakening. Thing is, we don't need stupid amounts of just mana with this build. We really don't run any good mana sinks for all that mana. The deck is tuned to get around a lot of the issues that most Wort decks have. Needing ALL the mana to win. This deck wins with much less, so we can get in there while everyone else is worried about the "bigger threat" at the table. Honestly, while it doesn't look like it on paper, after playing the deck, having enough mana is never an issue. And for all the times that we need all that mana to combo off, the combo itself makes it, and these spells just don't do enough by themselves.
-Harvest Season - Let me repost what I said earlier about this..
"and a few other cards like that I look at as win more. This deck, while loving ramp, doesn't need all of it's lands out to work. I can win off of just 5 lands (nut draw, and someone cheated out Iona naming green). Though, it might take the place of Explosive Veggies one day just for the CC of the deck. I really love the curve of the deck and that I can usually still use every bit of mana every turn one way or another. -edit- also, notice that while if this card is conspired, worse case it's a conspired explosive veggies for 1 less, if cast in a vacuum, it doesn't fetch anything. I think that's the reason I didn't like it. all my ramp should be good both as is and conspired"
After I posted that, I slotted it back in. I'll say this, it's stronger then I first gave it credit for. It really is. I took it out though, because my previous worry about me needing a ramp spell when I had nothing on the board kept on staying in the back of my mind. Just the thought of it happening is keeping me from running it. That is the only reason why I don't still have it in the deck. As such, I can't fault anyone running it.
Thank you for the comment. I hope that I explained my reasoning why I'm not running those cards in here. This just isn't the right build to take advantage of them. Saying that, I would say that most Wort builds would love those cards. They are very powerful. I would love to see your deck list so I may comment on it. As I keep saying, Wort is an underused choice for a commander and, more then most, there are many many ways to run her successfully. This is just one way, and the way that I found most effective and fun for me.
Come on everyone! Lets keep the comments coming and give Wort the attention that she deserves!!!
Goblin Green Acres
Endless Sands - Hmmm... This might be fun if you are really trying to abuse Krenko and thus he ended up with too big of a target on his head... Or if the table is gunning for mass exile and/or tuck. I don't think we need it though.
Graven Abomination - Another card that I really am going to need to pick up like 20+ of (I have too many decks ).. But not for this deck. See above
Sunset Pyramid - Hmmm... Might be worth a look as a budget Sylvan Library... Don't really need it right now though IMO
Mirage Mirror - Ok... This card actually has me thinking... There are a lot of targets that we can use.. Def going to playtest this. Not quite sure if it's going to be an auto include but will be on the list.
Firebrand Archer - This WILL be finding it's way in. No freaking question!!! It has (currently) 50 targets that work with it. Notice that Guttersnipe only fires off with 23 things in this deck. And it's 1 less then the 'Snipe. Reasons why I'm wanting to find a slot instead of just replacing it being smaller body (doesn't matter), 1 dmg instead of 2 per trigger, and not a goblin (actually an issue for this deck). But this is the type of card that we love here.
Imminent Doom - Has promise. Wish that it hit more targets at once (like all opponents, or all creatures target opponent controls). Without something like that, isn't worth the slot here.
Neheb, the Eternal - Could see this if we had to deal with a deck that has too much lifegain for us to normally work though, but we have MUCH better tools to add if we are just looking for a ton of mana.
Samut, the Tested - Only good in this deck for the ult. But can't copy it. I actually like this card unlike most ppl here, but for this deck... No thank you.
Hour of Promise - So good!! So very very good. I've been singing it's praises since I first saw it. Just not in this deck. Why you may ask? In this list, it's too expensive. And we aren't running the fancy lands that make this broken i.e. Cofferborg.
Overcome - Include in aggro builds.
Ramunap Excavator - Crucible of Worlds on a stick. Well, if I was running Crucible I would switch it out for this. Easy. But I'm not running it so there we go.
Rhonas's Last Stand - Ok ok... Time for me to draw some hate. I actually really really like this card. It's nowhere as much of an auto-include as Firebrand Archer, but very few things are. Now, why do I like it, you ask? Early game board presence, it's a 2 drop, it gives us blockers that aren't just chump blockers, we have Cryptolith Rite and Earthcraft so having our lands being tapped for one turn isn't that hard for us (also the altar's), it gets sick with Wort out or one of our token doublers out. And, when you actually play the deck out, it already tends to lead itself to casting stuff only every other turn. Will def be testing it out.
Uncage the Menagerie - We aren't built to take advantage of this card. I think the best we could do is Courser of Kruphix+Guttersnipe+Magus of the Moon, Krenko, Mob Boss+Lightning Crafter+Oracle of Mul Daya+Purphoros, God of the Forge, or just Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+Siege-Gang Commander... Maybe in the pure combo build (a ton more targets really) but not in the OP. I'll try it out in there and let ya know. Also, doesn't do anything with Wort.
Nissa's Encouragement - No... Just no...
Nissa, Genesis Mage - She has a lot going for her. Really. Her CMC isn't an issue for us and her +2 and her ult is nice. But I don't think she's worth the slot, and there are better cards that can do her stuff better for less.
Majestic Myriarch - Can be a big beater...But nah. We aren't looking for just that. And we aren't running a Keyword soup deck so it loses a lot of power. But it in a Naya deck.
Well... That's it for the review. Feel free to comment about my thoughts and I'll put up results about my better picks when I get my hands on the cards.
Goblin Green Acres
And the three cards I thought I would single out are
1) Early Harvest - A MONSTER in this deck that works even better in a deck designed to only be running a single nonbasic
2) Nostalgic Dreams - which when conspired because the cards are discarded as an additional cost so you can pick them all right back up with the copy.
3) Manamorphose is not good in most Commander really good with Wort and Shamanic Revelation seems like a no brainier (not a lot of draw in that list)
Hello Osi! Welcome to the page!
My thoughts? Not worth it IMO.
Goblin Green Acres
Whoot whoot!! Another Wort player! Welcome to the thread!!!
Ok, so, my thoughts about those cards. Well, the first 3 cards that you mention all have a similar issue. With Wort out, they are awesomesause. Without her, they are sorta meh. But here's my deeper thoughts about them.
Early Harvest - Well, I've already talked about this in post #11 and I'll show it here. Reminds me that I need to update my "meta card choices" list.
-Early Harvest/ Battle Hymn - Yes, these cards can make a stupid amount of mana. Same could be said about Rude Awakening. Thing is, we don't need stupid amounts of just mana with this build. We really don't run any good mana sinks for all that mana. The deck is tuned to get around a lot of the issues that most Wort decks have. Needing ALL the mana to win. This deck wins with much less, so we can get in there while everyone else is worried about the "bigger threat" at the table. Honestly, while it doesn't look like it on paper, after playing the deck, having enough mana is never an issue. And for all the times that we need all that mana to combo off, the combo itself makes it, and these spells just don't do enough by themselves.-
Now, after saying that, I should mention this. We are running cards like Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Cryptolith Rite, and Earthcraft so a better ritual effect would be Firecat Blitz esp since we are also running the 3 token doublers. Just my thoughts.
Nostalgic Dreams - Yeah... This is just my opinion but this is mostly only good for us with Wort out. I really don't like having spells that we need her out to gain good value. By the time that there is anything that we would want back, we likely don't have enough cards in hand to pull it off. But that isn't a problem for us. We don't need graveyard recursion in this deck. How is that? The deck is built with almost too much redundancy. So very many cards in the list can take the part of any other card. Case in point. Once in a 4 person FFA game, one of my friends ramp'd out like mad and hit me with a very early KICKED Sadistic Sacrament! I still managed to come out on top in that game, even though he gutted the deck. That's one of the reasons why I don't like having tutors or GY recursion in the deck. I'd rather run more copies of the effects that I want. It also leads the rest of the table into a false sense of security if they see so many combo pieces in the bin. They don't expect you to still be a threat and will either ignore you, or actually come to your defense if someone tries to target you. Or at least until you drop another bomb and take the table out
Manamorphose and Shamanic Revelation - Now... Playing this deck for as long as I have, I've found that I don't really need card draw as much as you'd think. With all the ramp spells we have, We can really just start top decking bombs each turn. BUTT (heh heh heh, I said Butt) The other two decks that I have listed might want them. Likely Manamorphose in the high budget version, and Shamanic Revelation in the pure budget version... Hmmm
I will say this though. I looked at your list and noticed a card that I will be adding to my current list. Far Wanderings. I think that would be a pure upgrade over Natural Connection. The Instant speed has never come up, and Wanderings has a chance to grab more lands. They are the same CMC as well... So, ummm... Thank you? lol
Any more thoughts guys and gals?
Goblin Green Acres
THE MAIN DECK!
- Courser of Kruphix + Firebrand Archer
Well... I finally found a slot for this card. The deck really wanted it and all. IT'S SO GOOD FOR US.
- Natural Connection + Far Wanderings
The instant speed was never a issue for me. Never came up and all. And there's a chance that I may hit the Threshold. So, worse case, they are the same card for me. One of them just may do better every once in a while.
THE BUDGET VERSION!!!
- Feroz's Ban + Firebrand Archer
I waited until the going prices were spoiled before I made this change. At what it is listed, I don't think that we'd have to worry about it going over our budget. And it's SO GOOD!!
- Natural Connection + Shamanic Revelation
So, without some of the more powerful cards that are in the other 2 decks, I thought that this deck could use some card draw. This one is quite a beast.
- Ranger's Path + Far Wanderings
Just trying to speed the deck up a bit
THE ALL COMBO VERSION!!!
- Nissa's Pilgrimage + Samut, the Tested
Ok... There is only one reason why I made this change. Her ult. Effectively it's a T&N that can't be copied. Quite good for our combos and all.
- Throne of the God-Pharaoh + Mana Echoes
Mana Echoes allows for a few more combos. Might as well put it in.
- Kyren Negotiations + Manamorphose
With Throne of the God-Pharaoh coming out, the Negotiations lost a lot of it's luster. So, I'm going to go with a nice piece of early game card draw. Turn 2 I can drop this, draw a card, and still cast a 2 drop ramp.
- Squirrel Nest + Uncage the Menagerie
So, yes. I took the nest combo out. I'm sorry. There is a good reason for that though. The combo just wasn't worth it. So, I hunted down another tutor for us that hits almost every creature that we'd want to see.I don't like the combo anymore because it only works with those 2 cards. At least with the other combos, you can find another card to use if the first one gets taken out. This combo, not so much
Yes, all of this has been updated in the changelogs for the different decks. I just wanted to put it out there. Hopefully in the next few days, I'll have everything needed changed so that I can re-apply for primer status. Hope you all enjoy this update.
As always, any other questions or comments are welcome.
Goblin Green Acres
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsHey hey!! Wazup? Welcome to the page!!!
I first created this deck a few years ago and that version was a burn deck. It really REALLY wasn't good at all. That's why I chose to turn it into this list. Besides being unexpected to every other play group that you run across, it wins FAR more often then the burn version. Also, it's far more fun for everyone that's playing. Yes, it is fun to take out a person early game (or even a full table) with "random X-burn spell" route, it's very easy to stop that plan. Looking at the removal slot, even without cards that are there for just that purpose we have a few things.
It isn't so much the issue that I am afraid of diluting the combo aspect of the deck. Honestly, playing the deck out, combo doesn't happen as often as you'd think. I tried going the all in combo route even (see the 3rd deck list if you want to get an idea of just how "all in combo" we could really become). The pure combo version works so very much better then the burn route. That being said, the main deck is just as much of an improvement over the pure combo version as combo is an improvement over burn. How is that? I focused on the synergy of the entire deck. I made the parts of the deck work better as a functioning whole then just ramp into combo. I even took the combos out that didn't have a place in the deck besides being combo. Because, if you don't have the other parts of it, they are dead cards. Playing this deck, you start running into trouble if you start tunnel visioning into combo only. I honestly win more games long before I can finally get a full combo online. How the deck works together, I don't NEED to one shot anyone. But I am glad that I can due to decks that spit out ALL the tokens or ALL the lifegain. A properly built lifegain deck can gain more life then any amount of burn can take out. But combo wins can win over even having ALL the life, or having all the protection.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, the deck just doesn't need burn. Or at least not a one shot burn spell. The damaging tools that we have are not the one-and-done tools, but work all game long. I think that if you want to use a burn spell, you should go all in with that. You'd get better results that way. With a Wort deck, you could run some of the bigger flashy spells (mostly the G ramp that I don't run). But I'm trying to make the deck work as a unit.
Now... With my rant about burn spells out of the way and attempting to make a difference between combo and synergy in this deck out of the way...
Pyromancer's Goggles - I love this card. I really really do. It should go into more decks. Hell, I know a few decks out there that don't have any burn in them that should run this card. R/U handcycling decks get busted with this. So does B/R removal spells. But lets see here what issues I have with this in my decks.
With that being said. I like it. But it's currently a worse Fork. If we get blessed with a new red spawn creatures card, I'll give this another look. But until then, and likely even after that, nope. Or at least that's my current opinion. It might change later though.
Goblin Green Acres
Herald's Horn - Not going in main deck. Reason being is that we don't need the card draw as much. Not to mention that the cost reduction isn't good enough for us. I'd rather run Goblin Warchief. In the combo build however it adds up more value. Hmmmm... Thoughts?
Mirror of the Forebears - Maybe a worse splinter twin? Maybe?
Crimson Honor Guard - No... Just no. Doesn't work with any of our plans besides to MAYBE draw removal. I'd much rather play something that is worth baiting out removal over this card that doesn't do much.
Disrupt Decorum - Doesn't help us. Sorry.
Izzet Chemister - Now THIS card might be worth attempting to find a slot. Either just to reuse cards at will, or try to find a stupid way to loop something (there HAS to be a way to pull that off)... Not to mention, it's a gobbo itself.
Kindred Charge - If we wanted this effect, we have something better in G. And we aren't using that... So... No thanks.
Traverse the Outlands - Honestly... It's best case is likely a 5 CMC to grab 3 lands. Nope. Sorry.
So yeah. I don't think that this set has given us much of anything really. At least for main deck. I'll be testing the new cards for the combo build but right now, it's a bit of a crapshot. Poo. Oh well... Can't win them all I guess
Goblin Green Acres