Sounds like a great game. Without the Shamanic Revelation part, it would have been a pretty regular game for me Some decks just flat out dies to Constant Mists. Such a nice card and a perfect partner for the temple. Had a similar 1v1 where had Spike Weaver in play, and could tutor for Temur Sabertooth and it's was almost infinite fog from there. Opponent did actually find Polukranos, World Eater to kill of the Weaver but then I drew into Eternal Witness - he scooped after that.
Looking forward casting Wave of Vitriol myself. Recently had a very hard time with an enchantress deck that played all sorts of hate things, most notably Overwhelming Splendor that cursed me and my innocentcreatures.
Looking forward casting Wave of Vitriol myself. Recently had a very hard time with an enchantress deck that played all sorts of hate things, most notably Overwhelming Splendor that cursed me and my innocent creatures.
It's such a good card. Ramps us, obliterates multicoloured landbases, and clears most control elements from the board. I've had a lot of sweeps after it resolves.
In WAR news, I've made a few upgrades, will take a little time over the next couple days to collate them - some new releases, some staple updates. Watch this space, Nissa is getting some heavy ammunition coming in
Time to post some upgrade changes, and these ones are pretty huge:
Blighted Woodland > Emergence Zone - Woodland has been quite slow, and Zone is one of the best utility lands printed in a long time. It's a straight up lock for this deck.
Hour of Promise > Nissa's Triumph - We've talked about getting good value out of Triumph, and the general consensus is it will be easy to do. Promise is a bit slow for my liking, and the CMC of Triumph is something I can get behind.
Swiftfoot Boots > Concordant Crossroads - So, this is a game winning add. Ridiculously cheap haste enabler, and yes it's global, but that means you play into it. Super strong add, and I'm stoked to have a copy.
Wilderness Reclamation > Seedborn Muse - I figured 'why go half way?' Muse does everything Reclamation does, and does it better. Plus I can protect it a little better as it's a creature I can bounce.
Burgeoning > Life from the Loam - Outside of an early draw, Burgeoning was a dead draw. It led to some blowouts, but Loam is just crazy good. It's an engine on it's own.
Zendikar Resurgent > Spike Weaver - Resurgent has been a strong add, for the card draw if nothing else. That being said, Weaver ought to be here, and this seemed like the most reasonable thing to remove, purely on CMC alone.
So yeah, big upgrades. I dropped a ton of trade from my folder to make it happen, but that's fine. I'd prefer to play valuable cards than collect them and not play them.
Those are some solid upgrades!
I think you'll like Life from the Loam. It would properly take too much more from your landfall shenanigans, but adding the landcyclers in the mix makes for a spicy drawengine.
I'm a bit surprised to see Zendikar Resurgent go, though I really like what you cut it for. The fog-spider is one of my best cards in my build. It really good at stalling out games. But with so many creatures I'd imagine it would do a lot of work, both helping out to cast the fat and draw into more gas. In the same vine, have you considered Lifecrafter's Bestiary?
I'm also surprised Finale of Devastation didn't find a home in your build, but maybe you just didn't aquire a copy yet?
I'm a bit surprised to see Zendikar Resurgent go, though I really like what you cut it for. The fog-spider is one of my best cards in my build. It really good at stalling out games. But with so many creatures I'd imagine it would do a lot of work, both helping out to cast the fat and draw into more gas. In the same vine, have you considered Lifecrafter's Bestiary?
Honestly, I didn’t really want to lose it, but I couldn’t see anything that I could cut otherwise. If there’s anything you feel I’ve missed feel free to point it out! Resurgent has been really good, but so is pretty much everything else here at the moment, so it’s hard. First world problems, right?
I’ve considered the Pokedex before, and it looks decent, but it definitely doesn’t dig as far as Cream of the Crop so it’s been a distant consideration to date.
I do have a copy of Finale of Devastation on the way, and yeah it’ll likely see play here - I’m tossing up if it’s for Nissa or Glissa, but I think it’ll be here it goes - I’ll likely swap out Zenith and give it to Glissa.
The first 'straight to modern' set, and it's a doozy. There's lots here for lots of people, some seriously big ticket items, and some iconic cards printed for lore too. I have to admit, it's a spicy looking set.
I'll run through what I'd consider or am considering here, but not everything in the set that applies to us - some of it should be obvious that there's no place for it here.
Artifact:
Really? Nothing? Not a single thing? - Yeah, there's nothing for us here. Not unless you're giving some of the changeling stuff the side-eye, but I'm thoroughly unconvinced.
Land:
Prismatic Vista - Rare fetch is gonna be crazy good here. I expect it to have a price tag to match the hype around it, which seems fairly high. Currently SCG has it for $30. If it stays at that level, I likely won't spring for it, as much as I can acknowledge it 100% deserves a spot here.
Snow-Covered Forest - Outside of Extraplanar Lens shenanigans, adding these would be pure pimpage, and I won't. For reference, adding full arts to this list would be BFZ or original Zendikar full arts - Nissa's home plane is a flavour home run if you're going for a deluxe land suite.
Green:
Creatures:
Collector Ouphe - Definitely a meta call - I expect if you need it it will be fantastic, otherwise it'll do nothing. It could do great things, if you see nasty decks like Memnarch and such. I probably won't run it, but can totally see why you would.
Excavating Anurid - Leans into Titania, and cantrips. I don't see the need to add him personally, but he's cute and not entirely useless.
Genesis - I've been waiting for this reprint a while now. It's become less strong as reanimation options get better, but I think he'd be a strong add here.
Nantuko Cultivator - He can dig deep, theoretically, and gets big if you do. Not convinced it's worth it personally, but if you were leaning into the dredge thing heavily this would do fine.
Spore Frog - Another reprint I've been waiting for. I don't think it's as abusable here as Spike Weaver, so I probably won't include it here, but you never know.
Springbloom Druid - This is great value on a 3 drop. I want a copy, and it'll be getting in here quick. Even without Titania in play it's great early ramp.
Non creature:
Ayula's Influence - I actually kind of like this. I'm not sure if it's worth leaning into overly, but instant speed bears are pretty cool.
Force of Vigor - This is a strong instant speed control piece. I could see a place for it somewhere in here possibly.
Regrowth - It's a strong card, but it's not on a creature, which makes it a lot harder to abuse here.
Scale Up - I only just read this fully now. Firstly, the name is perfect. Puns are great and I'll fight you if you disagree. Secondly, it's not a bad card. I don't think it quite makes a spot, but it is decent.
Unbound Flourishing - I don't think there's enough synergy to see a spot for it here. Polukranos, Zenith, Chord. For 3 cards? It's strong, but it's a build around card.
Weather the Storm - I mean, it takes you further away from losing, but I'm not convinced. I'd prefer Sprouting Vines over this, and I don't run that either.
And there's my take for this build. There's a lot of value in this release, but with this list being pretty well tuned to do what it does there's not a lot of space for anything that doesn't do something we specifically need. Lots of maybes for similar builds, a few lock ins, nothing to absolutely die over. Still some good value coming through - and to be honest I'm a little relieved considering the prices for some of these printings.
So, I tracked down a copy of Finale of Death by Dinosaur over the weekend. I'm going to try in place of Green Sun's Zenith here - not entirely it was the right choice to remove, purely on account of being able to pick up a T1 Dryad Arbor and being pseudo-reusable, but Chord of Calling is instant speed, and it's just harder to use in any other decks due to the GGG.
I'd love to hear feedback on Finale, or opinions as to whether I made the right cut :/
Yeah, my build didn't really get anything new from MH1, but I do consider Collector Ouphe, just because I love hating on artifacts.
I also think Force of Vigor is a strong card, the value alone makes it good, but when we have something like Temur Sabertooth/Reclamation Sage and a bazzilion mana, does it actually matter?
Yeah pretty much all of the above. I guess it’s just symptomatic if having a decklist that does what you want it to - any potential inclusions have to fit really nicely to be worth it, so there’s not really a wide range of inclusions moving forward. It’s a nice place to be in all honesty.
If you're not careful, there will be some douchebag packing a torpor orb or a humility. I always make sure to pack 3 or 4 ways of answering non creature permanents that aren't dependent upon entering the battlefield/activating an ability. Force of vigor is a strong contender for one of those slots, in my opinion.
Yeah, actually being honest I do wonder why I haven't got a Krosan Grip in here either - being able to say ábsolutely, unequivocally NO is always nice. Likewise, instant speed, effectively free nopes are good too. It's worth considering what I might cut for more answers.
It really depends on your meta. Mine isn't completely competitive, but in my Yeva build, I run tornado and song of the dryads to answer problems as well as the usual etb and on cast suspects. I don't run krosan grip or naturalize variants mainly because they don't fit the theme. I do think blast zone is worth a look, though. It's doing good work in some other decks I have laying around.
Yeah, I have Blast Zone in Glissa at present. I'm actually thinking it'd be suited somewhere else as Glissa is a pretty lean build for extraneous resources.
My meta is weird, in that half of my games are 1v1 with my wife, and the other half are (at present, at least) against randos on the net via untap.in. It means there's a ton of variation so it's hard to know what to pack answers for short of everything. My wife is almost 100% a Timmy, so her deck focus on big splashy stuff, her current favourite is Gishath, Sun's Avatar Jurassic Park build. It's frustratingly tough to face down. This deck does ok against it because it's quick as hell, but most of my decks are geared for multiplayer anyway so they struggle against her. Online, I do pretty well with Nissa, she just scales really nicely for almost anything outside of cEDH.
At any rate, I have Song of the Dryads in here, as well as Lignify and Beast Within. I feel like Beast covers enough ground that Grip is probably at most a functional swap out, but Lignify is probably a flex spot. I could see running Force of Vigor over it to cover more ground, as I have very few worries about creatures outside of the absolute pinnacle of degeneracy with Titans and Blightsteels and so forth.
Of cards not mentioned, I also run Unravel the Aether. I really like the card. It's cheap, and the library is usually more inaccessible then anything else.
Nature's Claim is nice and cheap too, that's an option as well. How good is Lignify? Its effectiveness for commander removal is severely hampered as they can just chump it back to the command zone.
Nature's Claim is nice and cheap too, that's an option as well. How good is Lignify? Its effectiveness for commander removal is severely hampered as they can just chump it back to the command zone.
So yeah, Lignify is definitely a weaker choice. I’ve had this exact scenario crop up a couple of times at least. If someone runs sac outlets it’s dead mana - and I generally recommend running sac outlets or bounce outlets. Nature’s Claim is really decent, it’s very well costed. I think either Force of Vigor or Claim would be a decent replacement. The only real benefit to keeping Lignify is that it counts as extra cost reduction to cast Emrakul, the Promised End, but that’s nowhere near enough to justify a place here.
Speaking of Disenchantments, there is also Return to Nature. It's a beautiful design, but I'm not sure the exile-effect alone warrants an inclusion to my deck.
I could see Lignify being an okay card sometimes, if you like me don't bother turning creatures sideways but summons a big Hurricane instead, but there is almost always sac-outlets, this being a multiplayer format and stuff that does it better, so I wouldn't consider Lignify outside anything from PDH in all honesty.
Yeah, I did notice it from War. I couldn't think of the name, thanks Roger. It's very versatile and really well costed. I don't necessarily see the exile as worth it entirely, it's not something I have a whole ton of issues with - to be fair, with almost any other deck it's me reanimating more than anyone else
I think I'd prefer something that can deal with a variety of permanents in place of Lignify - any of the options we've discussed in Force of Vigor, Nature's Claim or even Tornado would be decent replacements for Lignify. I'm not drastically worried about expense to cast as the deck does well in that respect, but it's not nothing to have it cost minimally. I'll probably pick up Force of Vigor in a little bit and try it out, if not Nature's Claim could do fine.
I've looked at Meteor Golem before too. It's a very real consideration here considering the bounce factor. As weltkrieg mentioned though, it's probably good to have some options that don't rely on ETB triggers, just in case of Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff/Humility/Overwhelming Splendor.
The golem is probably a reasonable alternative to Duplicant though, although I do like Duplicant's exile clause. There's not enough room in this deck, it's a first world problem, but a problem nonetheless!
Ah right, my bad. I noticed it the first time around, but then forgot about it. If you're literally swimming in mana, Tornado's pretty decent actually. I've been running it in my mono green for years and it's perfectly fine.
Yeah, Tornado looks good. I usually do fine for mana, although I really haven't paid attention to how often I get to that state of mana where you can spend it on whatever you like. It's definitely worth considering if I can track down a copy.
Tornado is a powerhouse! At least for me. Dropping this late game, pop something each turn, maybe remove a counter with Power Conduit - gets crazy with Seedborn Muse. Another great thing about Tornado is, when playing against randos, most havn't seen the card before and don't think it's that good at first sight. Also, the art is so weird, I can't not love it!
Oh for sure it looks excellent. My one concern with it would the upkeep and life loss costs, but it could be awesome regardless.
I guess it’s not exactly what you’d call spot removal but in terms of dealing with noncreature permanents Wave of Vitriol has been seriously good for me. It just crushes some decks, and turns the tide almost every time I cast it.
Don't take me too serious, I'm totally biased on the card. It gets expensive really soon, and best use of it, is destroying something your turn and on the opponents turns aswell, costing between 6GG to 10GGGG and the lifeloss accumulates fast.
Why you need to add Seedborn Muse and Power Conduit to the equation
And yeah, I'm looking forward getting a copy of Wave of Vitriol!
Looking forward casting Wave of Vitriol myself. Recently had a very hard time with an enchantress deck that played all sorts of hate things, most notably Overwhelming Splendor that cursed me and my innocent creatures.
It's such a good card. Ramps us, obliterates multicoloured landbases, and clears most control elements from the board. I've had a lot of sweeps after it resolves.
In WAR news, I've made a few upgrades, will take a little time over the next couple days to collate them - some new releases, some staple updates. Watch this space, Nissa is getting some heavy ammunition coming in
So yeah, big upgrades. I dropped a ton of trade from my folder to make it happen, but that's fine. I'd prefer to play valuable cards than collect them and not play them.
I think you'll like Life from the Loam. It would properly take too much more from your landfall shenanigans, but adding the landcyclers in the mix makes for a spicy drawengine.
I'm a bit surprised to see Zendikar Resurgent go, though I really like what you cut it for. The fog-spider is one of my best cards in my build. It really good at stalling out games. But with so many creatures I'd imagine it would do a lot of work, both helping out to cast the fat and draw into more gas. In the same vine, have you considered Lifecrafter's Bestiary?
I'm also surprised Finale of Devastation didn't find a home in your build, but maybe you just didn't aquire a copy yet?
Honestly, I didn’t really want to lose it, but I couldn’t see anything that I could cut otherwise. If there’s anything you feel I’ve missed feel free to point it out! Resurgent has been really good, but so is pretty much everything else here at the moment, so it’s hard. First world problems, right?
I’ve considered the Pokedex before, and it looks decent, but it definitely doesn’t dig as far as Cream of the Crop so it’s been a distant consideration to date.
I do have a copy of Finale of Devastation on the way, and yeah it’ll likely see play here - I’m tossing up if it’s for Nissa or Glissa, but I think it’ll be here it goes - I’ll likely swap out Zenith and give it to Glissa.
The first 'straight to modern' set, and it's a doozy. There's lots here for lots of people, some seriously big ticket items, and some iconic cards printed for lore too. I have to admit, it's a spicy looking set.
I'll run through what I'd consider or am considering here, but not everything in the set that applies to us - some of it should be obvious that there's no place for it here.
Creatures:
Non creature:
And there's my take for this build. There's a lot of value in this release, but with this list being pretty well tuned to do what it does there's not a lot of space for anything that doesn't do something we specifically need. Lots of maybes for similar builds, a few lock ins, nothing to absolutely die over. Still some good value coming through - and to be honest I'm a little relieved considering the prices for some of these printings.
I'd love to hear feedback on Finale, or opinions as to whether I made the right cut :/
I also think Force of Vigor is a strong card, the value alone makes it good, but when we have something like Temur Sabertooth/Reclamation Sage and a bazzilion mana, does it actually matter?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
My meta is weird, in that half of my games are 1v1 with my wife, and the other half are (at present, at least) against randos on the net via untap.in. It means there's a ton of variation so it's hard to know what to pack answers for short of everything. My wife is almost 100% a Timmy, so her deck focus on big splashy stuff, her current favourite is Gishath, Sun's Avatar Jurassic Park build. It's frustratingly tough to face down. This deck does ok against it because it's quick as hell, but most of my decks are geared for multiplayer anyway so they struggle against her. Online, I do pretty well with Nissa, she just scales really nicely for almost anything outside of cEDH.
At any rate, I have Song of the Dryads in here, as well as Lignify and Beast Within. I feel like Beast covers enough ground that Grip is probably at most a functional swap out, but Lignify is probably a flex spot. I could see running Force of Vigor over it to cover more ground, as I have very few worries about creatures outside of the absolute pinnacle of degeneracy with Titans and Blightsteels and so forth.
So yeah, Lignify is definitely a weaker choice. I’ve had this exact scenario crop up a couple of times at least. If someone runs sac outlets it’s dead mana - and I generally recommend running sac outlets or bounce outlets. Nature’s Claim is really decent, it’s very well costed. I think either Force of Vigor or Claim would be a decent replacement. The only real benefit to keeping Lignify is that it counts as extra cost reduction to cast Emrakul, the Promised End, but that’s nowhere near enough to justify a place here.
I could see Lignify being an okay card sometimes, if you like me don't bother turning creatures sideways but summons a big Hurricane instead, but there is almost always sac-outlets, this being a multiplayer format and stuff that does it better, so I wouldn't consider Lignify outside anything from PDH in all honesty.
I think I'd prefer something that can deal with a variety of permanents in place of Lignify - any of the options we've discussed in Force of Vigor, Nature's Claim or even Tornado would be decent replacements for Lignify. I'm not drastically worried about expense to cast as the deck does well in that respect, but it's not nothing to have it cost minimally. I'll probably pick up Force of Vigor in a little bit and try it out, if not Nature's Claim could do fine.
The golem is probably a reasonable alternative to Duplicant though, although I do like Duplicant's exile clause. There's not enough room in this deck, it's a first world problem, but a problem nonetheless!
Tornado is a powerhouse! At least for me. Dropping this late game, pop something each turn, maybe remove a counter with Power Conduit - gets crazy with Seedborn Muse. Another great thing about Tornado is, when playing against randos, most havn't seen the card before and don't think it's that good at first sight. Also, the art is so weird, I can't not love it!
I guess it’s not exactly what you’d call spot removal but in terms of dealing with noncreature permanents Wave of Vitriol has been seriously good for me. It just crushes some decks, and turns the tide almost every time I cast it.
Why you need to add Seedborn Muse and Power Conduit to the equation
And yeah, I'm looking forward getting a copy of Wave of Vitriol!