As far as wipes go, I don't know if these have been mentioned yet but they're pretty cheap: Mutilate, Havoc Demon, Kagemaro, First to Suffer. There's also Bane of the Living, but you can't reanimate him and do it again. Havoc is probably the easiest since you can just reanimate in response to his trigger and keep stacking those triggers up if you have to go to -10/-10 or -15/-15.
You probably don't need Core since you have Claws, Infernal Tribute, and Sidisi. But I also don't think you need Reliquary Tower or Temple of the False God. Or Darksteel Citadel, I don't understand that add.
Probably right there.
I know you're on a budget, but I just realized you're only running one to-hand tutor in Sidisi. Diabolic Tutor and Increasing Ambition are pretty cheap. And I still think you should move Myriad Landscape in here from Braids. Buried Ruin could be good with Expedition Map and Wayfarer's Bauble.
You are right. To be honest, I try not to run dedicated tutors if I can help it. I'd considered putting Razaketh, the Foulblooded in here, because he's a tank as well as a tutor. But I just can't do it. I want that variability that comes with playing tutorless. Sure it makes for a less reliable deck but it also makes for a less predictable experience.
As far as wipes go, I don't know if these have been mentioned yet but they're pretty cheap: Mutilate, Havoc Demon, Kagemaro, First to Suffer. There's also Bane of the Living, but you can't reanimate him and do it again. Havoc is probably the easiest since you can just reanimate in response to his trigger and keep stacking those triggers up if you have to go to -10/-10 or -15/-15.
They haven't been mentioned. Havoc Demon I have some copies of so is a very feasible add. I can see Mutilate too, but unfortunately don't have a copy spare. I like these effects simply for their ability to dominate indestructible creatures and nullify regeneration. Good call.
Yeah I kind o do want to keep the utility. I like all of those suggestions, although the first two are restrictive price wise. The second two are obviously of more limited use, but I like them both too.
Trying some changes. These may or may not stick, may or may not be winmore, but these cards have been in the folder a while so thought it'd be worth trying them out.
Not sure of the impact these will have. It does make my curve a little more top-heavy, so puts a little pressure on Chainer to deliver. That's not a bad thing though, he's there to be used. And last time I played there was very little point in using him. Paying BBB to reanimate something that costs less than that seems a tad redundant. And the bleeder suite has been underperforming to some extent.
This thread got me to pick up the Real Deal. Looking forward to starting a deck! If you are running lots for sac permanent outlets, might I suggest the one two punch of Priest of Yawgmoth and Spine of Ish Sah, machine gun style permanent removal. Alternatively, one could also perhaps take an extra turn/wipe protection with Ugin's Nexus.
Hey thanks! Glad to have inspired you to pick up Chainer! I look forward to seeing a new list in the coming days.
Priest of Yawgmoth I unfortunately don't have a copy of. It'd be an interesting addition, although I have a feeling it'd see more value in Glissa, the Traitor. I do have a couple of ways to sac non-creature permanents - Infernal Tribute, Claws of Gix, Reprocess. The last of these is not particularly efficient, but the others do just fine. I can't gun the hell out of things like I could with the Priest, but I'm also not altogether sure I want to be able to insta-win anyway. Thanks for the tip.
As I say I look forward to seeing a list. If you have any further suggestions, I'm happy to discuss!
Lili always felt surplus to requirements here. Buried Alive will get things running very quickly, so is a better fit. High Market is a single sac, which isn't that helpful to me if Chainer is threatened.
Hell's Caretaker goes in favour of Oppression. I can live out of a graveyard, and this helps play in my favour. It's a bit of a mean trick, but I don't care.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth comes out for Cabal Stronghold. It's a controversial change, and it is temporary. For now, Gisa and Geralf need Urborg more - I intend to replace it here, but for now, CS is far stronger here than it would be in G&G.
I don't play a ton of EDH, but when I do, I play Chainer. I've had the deck for 4-5 years now, and I'm pretty happy with where my list is. It can do powerful things, but I wouldn't say it is tuned to be played hyper competitively. Most of the games that I win are via looping Kokusho/Grey Merchant. Here's the list:
Budget seems to be a limiting factor for you, but theres still a few cards that I would reccomend that shouldn't cost you too much.
Withered Wretch is my go to for GY hate. Notably, it is on a creature, so you can reanimate it w/ chainer.
Mindslicer is my anti control tech, or just my clear the way card. Once chainer is in play, the deck can operate out of the gy, and with a sac outlet you can make sure no one draws any interaction.
Charcoal Diamond :I like Charcoal diamond and similar rocks because they tap for black mana. Chainer is hard on color requirements, especially because you usually want to play and activate on the same turn. To be fair, I am also running a lot fewer basics than you, so I need more black sources.
Duplicant: exile effect on a creature for chainer to play with.
Diabolic Tutor: For most decks, I think that 4 mana is too much for a tutor. However with Dimir House Guard, it lets you chain into any card in the deck.
Bojuka Bog:Taps for black, hard to interact with gy hate.
Steel Hellkite is slow, but one of the few ways mono b has to deal with troublesome noncreature permanents.
Mind Slash is another way to make sure the way is clear for Chainer, also can act as a sac outlet.
Diabolic Tutor is just awful to me. Spending your entire turn in the midgame to find a card is a bad deal. I would play Dimir House Guard even without it though since it doubles as a tutor and sac outlet.
Steel Hellkite is fine, but the newly spoiled Meteor Golem is so good in Chainer it isn't even remotely funny.
Otherwise I agree with your assessments.
@toctheyounger77: how have you not picked up altar of dementia it's like three dollars and it's a sac outlet that fuels your graveyard and has dementia in the name i know you like to savor the flavor come on now
@toctheyounger77: how have you not picked up altar of dementia it's like three dollars and it's a sac outlet that fuels your graveyard and has dementia in the name i know you like to savor the flavor come on now
I hate to be the bringer of bad news....but sadly, I took Chainer apart. As good as the deck was, I wasn't playing it. There were always other decks that are more fun, and there were some valuable pieces in here that I've picked up for pieces that are valuable for other builds. He's still far and away the best reanimator, but if I'm not playing him there's no point keeping the deck together.
I hate to be the bringer of bad news....but sadly, I took Chainer apart. As good as the deck was, I wasn't playing it. There were always other decks that are more fun, and there were some valuable pieces in here that I've picked up for pieces that are valuable for other builds. He's still far and away the best reanimator, but if I'm not playing him there's no point keeping the deck together.
It happens. Hopefully I can wring fun games still out of my weird-ass build (which I hope to make weirder), but taking stagnant decks apart is just part of the journey.
I know you're on a budget, but I just realized you're only running one to-hand tutor in Sidisi. Diabolic Tutor and Increasing Ambition are pretty cheap. And I still think you should move Myriad Landscape in here from Braids. Buried Ruin could be good with Expedition Map and Wayfarer's Bauble.
As far as wipes go, I don't know if these have been mentioned yet but they're pretty cheap: Mutilate, Havoc Demon, Kagemaro, First to Suffer. There's also Bane of the Living, but you can't reanimate him and do it again. Havoc is probably the easiest since you can just reanimate in response to his trigger and keep stacking those triggers up if you have to go to -10/-10 or -15/-15.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Probably right there.
You are right. To be honest, I try not to run dedicated tutors if I can help it. I'd considered putting Razaketh, the Foulblooded in here, because he's a tank as well as a tutor. But I just can't do it. I want that variability that comes with playing tutorless. Sure it makes for a less reliable deck but it also makes for a less predictable experience.
They haven't been mentioned. Havoc Demon I have some copies of so is a very feasible add. I can see Mutilate too, but unfortunately don't have a copy spare. I like these effects simply for their ability to dominate indestructible creatures and nullify regeneration. Good call.
In:
Myriad Landscape - Found a copy!
Buried Ruin - Likewise.
Havoc Demon
Out:
Phyrexia's Core
Darksteel Citadel
Bloodgift Demon - It's a flying Phyrexian Arena, but Havoc Demon has more purpose here. I have plenty of card draw otherwise.
5 Black Market
6 Reaper from the Abyss
7 Herald of Leshrac
2 Blood Artist
3 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4 Falkenrath Noble
Not sure of the impact these will have. It does make my curve a little more top-heavy, so puts a little pressure on Chainer to deliver. That's not a bad thing though, he's there to be used. And last time I played there was very little point in using him. Paying BBB to reanimate something that costs less than that seems a tad redundant. And the bleeder suite has been underperforming to some extent.
Priest of Yawgmoth I unfortunately don't have a copy of. It'd be an interesting addition, although I have a feeling it'd see more value in Glissa, the Traitor. I do have a couple of ways to sac non-creature permanents - Infernal Tribute, Claws of Gix, Reprocess. The last of these is not particularly efficient, but the others do just fine. I can't gun the hell out of things like I could with the Priest, but I'm also not altogether sure I want to be able to insta-win anyway. Thanks for the tip.
As I say I look forward to seeing a list. If you have any further suggestions, I'm happy to discuss!
In:
Buried Alive
Encroaching Wastes
Out:
Liliana, Heretical Healer
High Market
Lili always felt surplus to requirements here. Buried Alive will get things running very quickly, so is a better fit. High Market is a single sac, which isn't that helpful to me if Chainer is threatened.
Hell's Caretaker goes in favour of Oppression. I can live out of a graveyard, and this helps play in my favour. It's a bit of a mean trick, but I don't care.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth comes out for Cabal Stronghold. It's a controversial change, and it is temporary. For now, Gisa and Geralf need Urborg more - I intend to replace it here, but for now, CS is far stronger here than it would be in G&G.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-deckpaste/18-06-18-jSA-chainer/
Budget seems to be a limiting factor for you, but theres still a few cards that I would reccomend that shouldn't cost you too much.
Withered Wretch is my go to for GY hate. Notably, it is on a creature, so you can reanimate it w/ chainer.
Mindslicer is my anti control tech, or just my clear the way card. Once chainer is in play, the deck can operate out of the gy, and with a sac outlet you can make sure no one draws any interaction.
Charcoal Diamond :I like Charcoal diamond and similar rocks because they tap for black mana. Chainer is hard on color requirements, especially because you usually want to play and activate on the same turn. To be fair, I am also running a lot fewer basics than you, so I need more black sources.
Duplicant: exile effect on a creature for chainer to play with.
Diabolic Tutor: For most decks, I think that 4 mana is too much for a tutor. However with Dimir House Guard, it lets you chain into any card in the deck.
Bojuka Bog:Taps for black, hard to interact with gy hate.
Steel Hellkite is slow, but one of the few ways mono b has to deal with troublesome noncreature permanents.
Mind Slash is another way to make sure the way is clear for Chainer, also can act as a sac outlet.
Animate Dead: Cheap both in mana and money cost.
Diabolic Tutor is just awful to me. Spending your entire turn in the midgame to find a card is a bad deal. I would play Dimir House Guard even without it though since it doubles as a tutor and sac outlet.
Steel Hellkite is fine, but the newly spoiled Meteor Golem is so good in Chainer it isn't even remotely funny.
Otherwise I agree with your assessments.
@toctheyounger77: how have you not picked up altar of dementia it's like three dollars and it's a sac outlet that fuels your graveyard and has dementia in the name i know you like to savor the flavor come on now
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
I hate to be the bringer of bad news....but sadly, I took Chainer apart. As good as the deck was, I wasn't playing it. There were always other decks that are more fun, and there were some valuable pieces in here that I've picked up for pieces that are valuable for other builds. He's still far and away the best reanimator, but if I'm not playing him there's no point keeping the deck together.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko