MTG Salvation

Alright, so I think I just stumbled upon the best commander (and colors) for a cycling deck: Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix and Ravos, Soultender. Kydele prizes you with the more you cycle in a single turn and Ravos returns a creature from your graveyard to your hand during your upkeep (preferably a creature with cycling). The best creatures with cycling are in these colors, Astral Slide, the best cycling matters cards from Amonkhet, and being 4-colored means that you could include most of the lands that cycle (as well as The Gitrog Monster). Woah!

*Since I'm never going to hardcast any of the creatures with cycling, I've put their cycling cost instead of their casting cost. Also, the lands with cycling are to be cycled and not played (not necessarily, at least) so I've included their cycling costs as well.


I'm still doing a lot of tinkering and brewing with the deck. The main concept I'm building around is similar to the Living End modern deck (though, ironically I'm not running Living End); cycle a bunch of creatures and reanimate them to smash face. However, thanks to some goodies from Amonkhet and some scattered gems printed since Urza's Saga through Commander 2016, it's possible to take advantage of cycling itself by triggering other cards as I'm digging through the deck and filling my graveyard with lands and creatures.

Since Kydele only produces I'm avoiding using cards with colored cycling costs (one reason I'm considering cutting Barren Moor, Lonely Sandbar, Secluded Steppe, and Tranquil Ticket in order to make space for one more basic land of each type - although The Gitrog Monster loves lands that have cycling). Additionally, Fluctuator makes cards with cycling costs of 2 cycle for free. I'm running 41 lands because most of them are for cycling. Since I'm cycling most lands, I'm running 8 mana rocks to compensate. To support Ravos I'm also running cards with similar effects like Palace Siege and Oversold Cemetery. I get lots of benefits from continuously cycling cards so it's great to have creatures returning to my hand as well, which is were being redundant with Ravos's ability is great. I can cycle creature cards at the end of the turn before mine and get them back into my hand during my turn in order to cycle them all over again. To reanimate for free I'm running cards like Reya Dawnbringer, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Debtors' Knell, and Emeria, the Sky Ruin.

In order to take advantage of all the cycling I'm running,

• The Gitrog Monster (each cycled land grabs me 2 cards)
• Alhammarret's Archive which lets me draw 2 cards per card cycled (as long as I've already drawn my first card that turn)
• Archfiend of Ifnir really hurts opponents board state - especially when I'm cycling multiple cards per turn (and is itself cyclable)
• Curator of Mysteries allows me to filter before drawing the card (and is itself cyclable)
• Wharf Infiltrator produces a 3/2 for 2 whenever I cycle - which translates into "4: Draw a card and create a 3/2 colorless Eldrazi Horror creature token."
• Astral Slide would become ridiculously broken if I include creatures that have enter the battlefield triggers; however, I'm using it to flicker any possible attackers that may come my way; notwithstanding, it's great before Living Death: I flicker creatures I have in play by cycling creatures I'm sending to the graveyard; that way when Living Death resolves, I don't lose any creatures and all of them end up on the battlefield.
• Drake Haven, similar to Wharf Infiltrator, basically translates into: "3: Draw a card and create a 2/2 blue Drake creature token with flying."
• Spirit Cairn, similar to Wharf Infiltrator and Drake Haven, basically translates into: "2W: Draw a card and create a 1/1 white Spirit creature token with flying."

In order to recover cards from the graveyard I'm running mass reanimating spells like Living Death, Rise of the Dark Realms, and Splendid Reclamation. Also, in order to return cards to my hand for more cycling shenanigans, I'm running Creeping Renaissance, Praetor's Counsel, and Soulquake. Shadow of the Grave is great but only after I've cycled a lot cards in a same turn - so it may eventually get the axe.

Where I feel the deck could use some improving on is in my defenses. It's weak to graveyard hate and aggro. Although drawing a bunch of cards is a good way to sift through the deck to find cards I want while also filling the graveyard for an epic Living Death or Splendid Reclamation, I'm pretty vulnerable. Also, out of all the creatures, 16 are there solely for the cycling. Granted, these become great beaters when reanimated, but their sole purpose is for cycling. Maybe it's too few - maybe it's too much? The deck wasn't consistent enough through initial testing to determine that. Out of fear of potential weaknesses, I'm running a pillowfort package of 6 cards that slow down mass attacks (Norn's Annex, Windborn Muse, Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Sphere of Safety, and Collective Restraint). I'm also running the best commander hate cards (Darksteel Mutation, Imprisoned in the Moon, and Song of the Dryads) which also serve as great removal.

I have a feeling that the deck has some great potential and only through further testing can I reach a valid conclusion based on my hypotheses concerning the design and initial solitaire testing. So far the cards I consider weakest are the pillowfort cards, token producers that activate when milling (if I don't have Fluctuator out they tend to make cycling more expensive), Shadow of the Grave, and Soulquake. Shadow of the Grave can either be a dead draw or become the catalyst for a brutal follow-up play. Soulquake is great for bouncing all of my opponents' creatures while filling my hand with cyclers but it's pretty expensive at 3UUBB and slow (sorcery). This allows for around 11 cards to consider for inclusion in their place. Additionally, although I feel that the 16 creatures included solely for the cycling (and landcycling) are great inclusions considering their cycling cost of 2 (or practically free in the case of Street Wraith) and having either built-in evasion like flying, fear, or landwalk while having a pretty hefty body. I would rather not cut out the landcyling creatures; I'm cycling a lot of lands so it's great to be able to actually ramp up the lands I do want to play. Additionally, these landcycling creatures can tutor up the cycling dual lands which means that I can cycle them like a chain.

Since Astral Slide and Fluctuator are such broken cards, I am considering adding some tutors. If I were to add a tutor, it'd potentially be Archmage Ascension since it would be so easy to give it the necessary counters. However, with all the drawing I am bound to draw into them. So that exists as a possibility. Although not in the current decklist, I would like to find a slot for Phyrexian Reclamation. If the deck stalls, I can at least return to my hand a creature with cycling. Since cycling can be mana intensive, I would like to also include Seedborn Muse to be able to untap all my lands and continue with the cycling hijinxes throughout each turn.


If I do want to eventually abuse Astral Slide, I would add these potential candidates to the deck in lieu of the potential swaps (the ones that don't have cycling) and please let me know if I left out any broken ones!

• Acidic Slime
  
• Sun Titan
  
• Eternal Witness
  
• Angel of Despair
  
• Ashen Rider
  
• Karmic Guide
  
• Avenger of Zendikar
  
• Duplicant
  
• Terastodon
  
• Magister Sphinx
  
• Angel of Serenity
  
• Sidisi, Undead Vizier
  
• Rune-Scarred Demon

I know that Hour of Devastation will undoubtedly provide better bodies with cycling and cards that take advantage of cycling. Having a 4-colored deck means that there will be more options available to me. If Wizards adopts the habit of completing card cycles relatively quickly, then enemy cycle lands will eventually be printed. Those would be eventually swapped in for the battle lands. For the moment, I would like to try and build the deck because it is relatively cheap for being a 4-colored deck ($336.20 as of 4/29/17) and it'd be cheaper if not for Crucible of Worlds and but a handful of cards that are between $10 and $30. However, I like to always tests decks out and brew as much as possible before investing in the cardboard. Although most of these cards are commons that I may even get for free from buddies, I would have to invest in the lands and the rest of the cards (for not having most of them). This deck came about after so many inspiring ideas crashed together, particularly: "What partner combination have I not seen yet and what would be the best combination of colors for cycling?"

Any and all feedback is much appreciated! I would really like to build upon this concept. Cycling is a mechanic that Wizards frequently returns to so hopefully the deck would stagnate often and will remain fun.

I think you can break Astral Slide as more of a control card, with cards like Containment Priest and Overburden, bouncing your opponents' stuff when they want to attack then punishing them for it. You can also use the Rishadan package that works so well for Brago.
I'm sure you have a ton of more interactions...

I like that control concept of Astral Slide (it was its original purpose). Since Containment Priest hurts me (since I'm reanimating), having Astral Slide out neutralizes it for when I reanimate. So I can use it one-sidedly. Overburden is great with Astral Slide. Even so, if I have it out and do mass reanimation and bounce most of my lands, it's still win/win because I can ditch them to the graveyard during the cleanup step and draw a ton of cards with The Gitrog Monster. Or, just recover them with Splendid Reclamation or Crucible of Worlds.

What's the Rishadan package? Rishadan Cutpurse, Footpad, and Brigand?

Oh I forgot you were reanimating! That definitely puts a damper on the priest.
Yes, that's the rishadan pack. They're very useful when you're taxing your opponents or repeatedly blinking the rishadan pack.
Other cycling synergies include Words of Waste (and also its friends from all the other colors) and some other stuff I can't remember.

The thing is that you're struggling so hard to cycle creatures through the cycling ability that you aren't really making it worth your while. You're busy cycling subpar creatures like Twisted Abomination, hoping they do something when you get to reanimating them... Instead, you can be running the sickest creatures EDH can let you play, like Genesis, along with some classic discard engines that generate monstrous card advantage, like Survival of the Fittest, and then get some real value out of Living Death.
I don't think cycling should be totally ignored - just considered as just another good mechanic you can use. Because when you couple a core idea with cards with synergy, and not just the same mechanic over and over, you get profit. That way, when your Fluctuator gets killed, you don't necessarily lose.
Other cards with possible synergy:
Liliana, Death's Majesty - new from AKH
Titania, Protector of Argoth - usually a staple with Gitrog.
Centaur Vinecrasher - good with cyclelands.
Life from the Loam - must have in reanimator with cyclelands.
You have almost every color at your disposal, and the one you don't is considered the worst in EDH. Have fun with that.

Yeah, I know they're subpar creatures. But the ones with landcycling are good at least to ramp and to trigger abilities that care about cycling or discarding. I'm hoping to see what what other cycling goodies Hour of Devastation brings. Reanimating them is just to make them more useful than to simply activate cycling. I want the focus of the deck to be cycling and not reanimator. But then I'd have a whole bunch of "2: Draw a card." or "2: Search for a land of the {basic land type} and put it into your hand." spells, basically. So I just want to get more mileage out of that. I'm looking at it from the following viewpoint: if I use Astral Slide to take advantage of cards that I'm cycling, then I'm using Living Death or Rise of the Dark Realms to take advantage of all the creatures that I'm cycling - that's my logic, at least. Though, with what I wrote in the beginning of the post, it seems that what I want to accomplish the most is reanimation. I should probably fix that so the purpose isn't completely lost.

Genesis is a great card for cycling creatures but I have to pay 2G to use it, I have to make sure it's in my graveyard, and there are cards that do the same effect for free like Oversold Cemetery and Palace Siege. I have a reanimator deck already that's devoted to self-milling in order to reanimate (the Sidisi primer in my sig) so I don't want to have two similar decks. That being said, reanimator is just an after thought. Again, it's purpose being to get a couple of more miles out of the garbage I'm cycling. Oh, and I cut a whole bunch of creatures with cycling from the list; these are just the better ones.

Words of Waste is a great card to consider. I can basically force all my opponents to discard a card at instant speed and for 3.

Words of Waste seems absolutely insane with Fluctuator out

You need to be in red for the shock enchantment. Green is probably the worst colour for cycling unless you count gitfrog. So you should probably be playing a 5 colour commander.

Perhaps one of the beefy slivers. (Sliver cycling?) Or child of alara as a panic button. Child is bad with your build around cards though.

Quote from Tasty_Cyanide »

Words of Waste seems absolutely insane with Fluctuator out

Definitely. I'm gonna see if I can slot it in. Being able to make each opponent discard for 3 at instant speed isn't something to scoff at. Also, an opponent with an empty hand can stay that way if I activate the ability in response to his or her first main phase.

Quote from VidarThor »

You need to be in red for the shock enchantment. Green is probably the worst colour for cycling unless you count gitfrog. So you should probably be playing a 5 colour commander.

Perhaps one of the beefy slivers. (Sliver cycling?) Or child of alara as a panic button. Child is bad with your build around cards though.

I don't think I'm going to use a 5-colored commander just for one red card. Also, the partners aren't just for the color pie; their abilities are relevant to the deck. Green isn't just for The Gitrog Monster; it's necessary for Creeping Renaissance, Splendid Reclamation, and Praetor's Counsel. Additionally, I'm seriously considering adding Seedborn Muse and Aura Shards; I need green for that.

Slivercycling with a legendary sliver as the commander is definitely some interesting tech, though. However, I might as well build a sliver deck with a cycling subtheme. It'd still be a very interesting take on slivers.

One of each basic would be quite a relief here. It's literally making me physically uncomfortable that Krosan Tusker and Ash Barrens have nothing to search for. I'd cut check-lands before cycling lands, though. Isn't the cycling super important? Unlike its younger relatives Blighted Woodland and Myriad Landscape, Krosan Verge can find dual-lands. I think verge is worthwhile here because you really need ramp/fixing and it makes Emeria, the Sky Ruin more likely to fire in games where you don't get off a huge Splendid Reclamation. Also, not sure how deep you want to go with this Urza's Saga mechanic, but Thran Turbine is kind of another Sol Ring if you're always going to be cycling things.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

One of each basic would be quite a relief here. It's literally making me physically uncomfortable that Krosan Tusker and Ash Barrens have nothing to search for. I'd cut check-lands before cycling lands, though. Isn't the cycling super important? Unlike its younger relatives Blighted Woodland and Myriad Landscape, Krosan Verge can find dual-lands. I think verge is worthwhile here because you really need ramp/fixing and it makes Emeria, the Sky Ruin more likely to fire in games where you don't get off a huge Splendid Reclamation. Also, not sure how deep you want to go with this Urza's Saga mechanic, but Thran Turbine is kind of another Sol Ring if you're always going to be cycling things.

Actually, there are 8 basics in the deck, I just forgot to add them in the list. Thanks for point it out for me! As for the battle lands, I have them in there for Emeria, the Sky Ruin, they're tutorable with swampcycling (etc.), and they usually enter the battlefield untapped.

Thran Turbine seems pretty interesting but wouldn't it be a dead card if I have nothing to cycle?

I'm also considering adding in Amulet of Vigor since most of my lands would enter the battlefield tapped. Even if I play them from the graveyard with Crucible of Worlds, they'd enter tapped. When using Splendid Reclamation they'd also enter tapped. So it's be a good way to not get bogged down.

Quote from DementedKirby »

Alhammarret's Archive which lets me draw 2 cards per card cycled (as long as I've already drawn my first card that turn)

Alhammarret's Archive Will always let you draw 2 from cycling. It only cares about the first card you draw, during your draw step. Any other time it doubles.

Rings of Brighthearth is a glaring omission as far as doubling things is concerned. Cycling is an activated ability. It will not double anything that triggers from the act of cycling (IE. Krosan Tusker's land search trigger), but it will double the effect, the card you draw.

EDIT:

Also your mana base is naturally compatible with Tainted Pact.

Quote from Gamazson »

Quote from DementedKirby »

Alhammarret's Archive which lets me draw 2 cards per card cycled (as long as I've already drawn my first card that turn)

Alhammarret's Archive Will always let you draw 2 from cycling. It only cares about the first card you draw, during your draw step. Any other time it doubles.

Rings of Brighthearth is a glaring omission as far as doubling things is concerned. Cycling is an activated ability. It will not double anything that triggers from the act of cycling (IE. Krosan Tusker's land search trigger), but it will double the effect, the card you draw.

EDIT:

Also your mana base is naturally compatible with Tainted Pact.

You're right on Alhammarret's Archive; I should be able to always cycle for 2 outside of my turn.

Rings of Brighthearth are great if I have Fluctuator out because I could draw two cards from one cycling which translates into 1 draw per mana. However, it won't trigger cards that care about cycling. I don't know if it would be worth a slot, though. I feel like it would make things more expensive which is why I want to cut cards like Wharf Infiltrator.

Speaking of which, I've made some changes to the deck. I'll try and post them soon. So far I'm still solitairing a bit to get a feel for the deck. But I'll probably test it out in Cockatrice tomorrow.

• I feel much better knowing that there are basic lands in the deck, thank you. It just didn't make sense that DementedKirby would punt like that. The world makes sense again.
• While your commanders are certainly powerful and synergize well with a deck full of cycling creatures, do you ever actually get to use them? You've got no protection for them and your deck doesn't really present a ton of other targets for removal. Do you consider untapping with a commander to be "just gravy" in this deck?
• Thran Turbine is almost, but not quite completely, blank if you don't have anything to cycle with it. You'd probably need an even higher density of nonsense creatures to make it useful. It's worth noting that the mana can activate signets, pay for Rings of Brighthearth and Phyrexian Reclamation (which looks sweet in this deck, by the way) and help with Eternal Dragon. It's probably still not good enough, but the card has a lot more functionality than most people give it credit for.
• Archmage Ascension reminds me that you could potentially run the risky but powerful Pursuit of Knowledge.
• Cutting most of the mana rocks looks strange. Many of your lands enter the battlefield tapped and your payoff spells are expensive. Don't you have to ramp to avoid falling too far behind?
• Enlightened Tutor is not strictly better than Fabricate because tutoring to hand is obviously better than to top of library, but it's still a stronger card. Topdeck tutors in general are much better in a deck full of cantrips.
• Cutting Drake Haven, Wharf Infiltrator and Spirit Cairn also looks weird, but I can at least imagine them being too slow and clunky. Is the idea that you're replacing them with better payoffs, i.e. more Living Death effects? Edit: If you move away from cards that trigger on cycling or discard and toward Living Death effects, then aren't you just playing a suboptimal Living Death deck? Like, if too few cards care that you're cycling nonsense creatures then aren't you better off casting stuff like Grisly Salvage and having it put format-staple-fatties into your graveyard?
• How often do you end up with a cycling land or two on the battlefield because you had to hit land drops (as opposed to because Splendid Reclamation put them there)? If the answer is "pretty often" then maybe a few Karoo lands would be nice to get a second chance at cycling. That would represent even more ETBT lands, though, so maybe it's not worth it.
• With the signets gone, you're actually pretty close to having a deck that can support Living End and cascade spells. Not sure if the transition would be worth it since you'd lose powerful stuff like Sol Ring and Demonic Tutor, but it's something to think about.
• How do you break the symmetry of Containment Priest? I'm not seeing it. Never mind, turns out I can read after all.
• With more emphasis on resolving big black spells, Songs of the Damned (as the original Fluctuator decks did it) and Crypt of Agadeem could put in some work.
• For the same reason Boseiju, Who Shelters All might be good here. If it turns out to be very good, you can run Tolaria West as another copy that can also be the worst cycling land of all time if you need it to be.
• Glad to see the pillow fort stuff go. Can't put my finger on exactly why, but that sort of package looked out of place in this deck.
• I also like that Soulquake is still around, even though it's kind of weak for its cost. That card is cool and this is probably pretty close to the best possible deck for it.
• Confessor is cute.

Some more cards that pay you off for cycling tons of creatures:

• Avatar of Woe
• Corpse Augur
• Grim Flowering
• Hallowed Spiritkeeper
• Nature's Resurgence
• Svogthos, the Restless Tomb

There are a zillion more that make creatures or pump creatures or are creatures that get bigger for each creature in your graveyard, but those just don't seem as good.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

While your commanders are certainly powerful and synergize well with a deck full of cycling creatures, do you ever actually get to use them? You've got no protection for them and your deck doesn't really present a ton of other targets for removal. Do you consider untapping with a commander to be "just gravy" in this deck?

I'm still testing. While they are the best possible commanders in theory for cycling, the deck works without them. Ravos gives me back a cycler each upkeep and has the bonus of being a flyer plus pumps my creatures. Kydele can give ridiculous amounts of mana if I cycle a lot during the same turn. So I'm not really worried about them biting the dust.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Cutting most of the mana rocks looks strange. Many of your lands enter the battlefield tapped and your payoff spells are expensive. Don't you have to ramp to avoid falling too far behind?

I have lots of mixed feelings about the mana rocks. When they were in the deck I ended up scrying them away (when Curator of Mysteries is in play) because I'm digging for other things. Yet when I'm cycling a bunch of lands I wish I had other sources of mana, lol.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Enlightened Tutor is not strictly better than Fabricate because tutoring to hand is obviously better than to top of library, but it's still a stronger card. Topdeck tutors in general are much better in a deck full of cantrips.

Very true. Worst case scenario, I'd need 2 cards (the card itself and one with cycling) and 3 mana to use Enlightened Tutor where as Fabricate is just one card for the same amount of mana. However, Enlightened Tutor is instant speed, only costs 1 mana, I can cast it the turn before mine, and it could search up either Fluctuator or Astral Slide.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Cutting Drake Haven, Wharf Infiltrator and Spirit Cairn also looks weird, but I can at least imagine them being too slow and clunky. Is the idea that you're replacing them with better payoffs, i.e. more Living Death effects? Edit: If you move away from cards that trigger on cycling or discard and toward Living Death effects, then aren't you just playing a suboptimal Living Death deck? Like, if too few cards care that you're cycling nonsense creatures then aren't you better off casting stuff like Grisly Salvage and having it put format-staple-fatties into your graveyard?

You're completely right on every point here. I already have a reanimator deck and when I'm reanimating the subpar creatures I just end up underwhelming the field and taking away cycling opportunities. I should just put the token makers back in while finding ways to make the deck more efficient. Besides, I know that Hour of Devastation will bring a lot of goodies. It just remains to be seen. The concept is there, but it can be a trifle difficult to spend 3 mana on a creature token.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

How often do you end up with a cycling land or two on the battlefield because you had to hit land drops (as opposed to because Splendid Reclamation put them there)? If the answer is "pretty often" then maybe a few Karoo lands would be nice to get a second chance at cycling. That would represent even more ETBT lands, though, so maybe it's not worth it.

That's a good idea but I usually don't play them, which is why I have such a high land count. The landcyclers fill my hand with playable lands while the cycling lands are there for cantripping. I either put them all in play with Splendid Reclamation or return them to my hand with Praetor's Counsel or Creeping Renaissance. The Gitrog Monster loves when I cycle lands so that's one reason I avoid playing them. That being said, I could possibly add Sylvan Safekeeper to sacrifice cycling lands so that I can protect creatures and possibly get them back into my hand from the graveyard. Crucible of Worlds helps my play these lands from the graveyard if I have no lands in hand. So that's kind of way to solve that land predicament. This is also one reason I've been testing the deck without mana rocks: I'm running 40-some lands and have many ways to get lands into play or my hands so I felt like I was being flooded with mana. Yet, ironically, when mana flooded I never have the cards necessary to take advantage (like Wharf Infiltrator, etc.).

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

With more emphasis on resolving big black spells, Songs of the Damned (as the original Fluctuator decks did it) and Crypt of Agadeem could put in some work.
Some more cards that pay you off for cycling tons of creatures:

• Avatar of Woe
• Corpse Augur
• Grim Flowering
• Hallowed Spiritkeeper
• Nature's Resurgence
• Svogthos, the Restless Tomb

I really like the concept of taking advantage of the creatures in my graveyard. Crypt of Agadeem is definitely worth considering. I'll probably add in Grim Flowering and Nature's Resurgence.

I'm still brewing with the deck and it's nowhere near where I feel like it can be. I want to try and take advantage of cycling/discarding, etc. However, there are cards that allow for better use (like better reanimation, drawing, etc.) yet I want to make a fun and casual deck without breaking bank. I haven't seen this kind of deck before so I want to be unique, as well. It's quite the challenge but I'm up for it!

EDIT:
If I were to take away the mass reanimation spells, then I'd also be left without a solid wincon. Which begs the question: how do I win?

Here's what I have now after some suggestions from all those who've been helping me so far:


30% of the deck is cards with cycling so it's still a good ratio (I believe) to assure its abuse.

Hey Kirby! I was wanting to rebuild Zur Astral Slide soon, and I saw this topic. How are the commanders working out for you? Is going for colors worth it over having a tutor for astral slide in the command zone?

Quote from gromgrom »

Hey Kirby! I was wanting to rebuild Zur Astral Slide soon, and I saw this topic. How are the commanders working out for you? Is going for colors worth it over having a tutor for astral slide in the command zone?

Yo Grom! You make a very valid point, actually. I'd have to see the benefits of running G. However, Ravos + Kydele are unassuming compared to Zur. Zur has a large target painted on him. So if I run Zur I might as well make a Zur devoted deck. That being said, Zur would tutor up practically all of the enchantments. The bad thing is that lack of G means no Splendid Reclamation nor The Gitrog Monster and I'd lose out on a lot of lands with cycling. So I'd have fewer cards with cycling to take advantage of... It's quite the perdicament.

As far as how the commanders are working out, Kydele gives a lot of colorless mana and Ravos always guarantees me a returning creature with cycling to my hand. So they're great for the deck as far as taking advantage goes. Zur's only immediate advantage is tutoring up Astral Slide, Archmage Ascension, Darksteel Mutation, Drake Haven, Imprisoned in the Moon, Overburden, Oversold Cemetery, Phyrexian Reclamation, Spirit Cairn, and Words of Waste (which isn't that bad, actually). But running Zur means that I have a build in tutor (should he survive). Maybe add Zur as one of the 98?

Hey kirby, ever think of using Shard Convergence as a way to nab four of the new cycling lands to hand?

You can only run 3 of the bicycle lands in a 4 color deck because they only exist in allied color pairs. Is getting 3 cycling cards better than drawing 3 random cards (as many other things can do at 4 CMC)? With a payoff card or two in play it would be.

There's also Realms Uncharted.

Yeah, I think that creatures with basiclandcycling are better than running spells that just tutor for lands. Because those creatures trigger cards that care about discaring and cycling.

Hey Kirby, are you still testing this deck?

I play Realms Uncharted in my cycling deck, since its card advantage while also fuel a big Splendid reclemation or just let you play lands from grave with crucible. I tend to keep my cyclers in my hand, even though i miss a landdrop, just to take advantage of astral slide.

In constrast to my deck, you play a lot of cycling - how does that work for you? I actually cut most of the cyclers, sticking mostly to lands becuase most of the cycling-spells seem mediocre to me.

Quote from rogerandover »

Hey Kirby, are you still testing this deck?

I play Realms Uncharted in my cycling deck, since its card advantage while also fuel a big Splendid reclemation or just let you play lands from grave with crucible. I tend to keep my cyclers in my hand, even though i miss a landdrop, just to take advantage of astral slide.

In constrast to my deck, you play a lot of cycling - how does that work for you? I actually cut most of the cyclers, sticking mostly to lands becuase most of the cycling-spells seem mediocre to me.

Yeah, I really like your deck. And I've also seen a nonR cycling deck with a similar feel in LouCypher's thread.

I'm still amidst a lot of testing. The reason I run so many creatures with cycling is to basically draw deep into the deck. And, once Fluctuator's in play, they're all free to cycle. Also, there are many ways to get creatures into my hand from the graveyard so it's not that difficult to maintain steam when you're slowing down. Additionally, there are lots of cards that like having creatures in the graveyard (Grim Flowering and the like). That being said, the deck is a bit unconventional because it's trading cycled creatures for weak tokens. So I haven't quite found where I want to be at with the deck. The purpose of Ravos is to pump all the tokens while also getting me back a cycler each upkeep. Yet, at the end of the day, Ravos is just becoming a Glorious Anthem + Oversold Cemetery on a body. I need a solid wincon.

I have 14 creatures just for the cycling (not including the landcyclers). I also have 12 lands just for cycling. So that leaves me with only 28 cards with cycling - which doesn't provide me with much interaction with them. Depending on which goodies Hour of Devastation brings, that's what I'm working with at the moment. I also dislike the spells that have cycling - most of them are subpar.

Testing has shown that the synergy is wondrous. I can play a land I cycled with Crucible of Worlds and when I create a token later on, I can get it back into my hand with Overburden. However, I do a lot of cycling and not much else. I have lost way more games than the ones won. The most broken interaction has been with the cycling lands and The Gitrog Monster.

Due to the power of The Gitrog Monster in a deck like this, I'm considering the possibility of running a Reaper King deck with every kind of cycling lands and have The Gitrog Monster be the actual star of the show. The deck would run its fair amount of janky hijinxes. Blinking creatures with Astral Slide while having them be scarecrows thanks to Xenograft or Conspiracy would be pretty neat. Astral Sliding opponents' creatures with Containment Priest in play would be pretty epic as well. I could also potentially generate a ton of mana with Skirge Familiar, Shadow of the Grave, Splendid Reclamation, etc. and win with an epic Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless. There's just so many things to consider, try, and test! For the moment, I want to stick to my initial idea. I just have to do a lot more testing!