MTG Salvation

• No planeswalkers matter theme (Superfriends).
• No +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters theme.
• No infect.
• No Doubling Season or Deepskate Glow.
• No oppressive stax, land destruction or infinite combos.
• No gimmicks.

This list is a value based GWUB semi-competitive midrange control deck that uses efficient and versatile removal spells to control the board while working towards winning the game with mana cost-effective threats.

I want to do something with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice that is outside of the box. Instead of running a bunch of proliferate cards and planeswalkers or creature counters like 90% of the lists I have seen, I want to explore focusing on how efficient Atraxa, Praetors' Voice is. She's a 4/4 with flying, vigilance, lifelink and deathtouch for only 4 mana. She is so efficient, she functions as the deck's primary win condition. While there are other large creatures that can assist us winning the game, focusing on winning with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice leaves us more room for answers.

I have decided to run a small handful planeswalkers, cards with counters and other cards that have good synergy with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, but only because they are especially good at either controlling the board of fixing our mana.

I am eager to hear any feedback, positive or constructive. Questions are also welcome. I am especially curious to hear recommendations for alternate creature win conditions with a converted mana cost of 7 or less. I am also interested in good removal spells and ramp that may be better than the ones I am running.

Deck List


Thank you for reading!

Change Log:

I finally got around to testing this list this weekend. It was a lot of fun to pilot and quite successful. Sword of Feast and Famine along with Sword of Fire and Ice generate so much value when equipped to Atraxa, Praetors' Voice. Her evasion in tandem with her deathtouch make it nearly inevitable you can deal combat damage to an opponent. I am considering making room for Sword of Light and Shadow because W and B are common removal colors in the format.

I am finding Mirrodin's Core to be under-performing. What are some nonbasic lands that enter untapped aside from original dual lands that can consider running in its place? Perhaps Tendo Ice Bridge?

Everything else is working according to plan. I guess I can say that at times Glint-Sleeve Siphoner doesn't do it's job. Should I run Phyrexian Arena in it's place, or is the BB in its mana cost too cumbersome? I am also considering running Brainstorm or Mirri's Guile. They both seem really strong with with all of the shuffling lands and spells the list runs.

Your list is pretty nice, but you aren't really utilizing control to the limit.
For example, counterspell suite > removal suite. Not saying you should cut it all, just modify.
Also, so much lands! Must have artifact mana.
Finally, you're running Ponder and Preordain before Brainstorm. Really?

Glint-Sleeve Siphoner should obviously be Dark Confidant. You have a lifelink commander, why do you care?
Merciless Execution should be Austere Command.
Are you sure about running Frost Titan? His abilities seem really subpar for EDH. I think a blue deck with mana would prefer Sphinx of the Final Word. Same for Massacre Wurm - in most cases Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is better.
Also, why are you running new Nissa? She's good for Genesis Wave decks, most of the time she'll whiff her 0 ability. Cut her for Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Sylvan Safekeeper probably wants to be Lightning Greaves here. You get nothing out of saccing lands, you have enough fetches in the yard anyway.
If you were ever to include anything with triple color, I would argue that the first two candidates need to be Future Sight and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir.

Beyond that, cut Sphere of the Suns, Explore, Countersquall, Negate, AEther Hub and a bunch of more lands. I mean really, 40 lands?!
Slot in Sensei's Divining Top, Fellwar Stone, Mana Drain, Pact of Negation, Crucible of Worlds, Coalition Relic, Mana Crypt, -->Sol Ring<--, possibly some signets, Gilded Lotus, Phyrexian Metamorph.
If you lower your land count, and stay with low creature count, you could run Narset Transcendent.
You might also want black tutors, a la Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, etc.

Quote from shermanido37 »

Your list is pretty nice, but you aren't really utilizing control to the limit.
For example, counterspell suite > removal suite. Not saying you should cut it all, just modify.
Also, so much lands! Must have artifact mana.
Finally, you're running Ponder and Preordain before Brainstorm. Really?

Glint-Sleeve Siphoner should obviously be Dark Confidant. You have a lifelink commander, why do you care?
Merciless Execution should be Austere Command.
Are you sure about running Frost Titan? His abilities seem really subpar for EDH. I think a blue deck with mana would prefer Sphinx of the Final Word. Same for Massacre Wurm - in most cases Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is better.
Also, why are you running new Nissa? She's good for Genesis Wave decks, most of the time she'll whiff her 0 ability. Cut her for Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
Sylvan Safekeeper probably wants to be Lightning Greaves here. You get nothing out of saccing lands, you have enough fetches in the yard anyway.
If you were ever to include anything with triple color, I would argue that the first two candidates need to be Future Sight and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir.

Beyond that, cut Sphere of the Suns, Explore, Countersquall, Negate, AEther Hub and a bunch of more lands. I mean really, 40 lands?!
Slot in Sensei's Divining Top, Fellwar Stone, Mana Drain, Pact of Negation, Crucible of Worlds, Coalition Relic, Mana Crypt, -->Sol Ring<--, possibly some signets, Gilded Lotus, Phyrexian Metamorph.
If you lower your land count, and stay with low creature count, you could run Narset Transcendent.
You might also want black tutors, a la Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, etc.

Thanks for the detailed feedback and suggestions, it is very helpful. Here is my response:

I think that Ponder and Preordain are better than Brainstorm unless you are shuffling. I have about 9 shuffle effects which is a good amount, but certainly not enough where the shuffle effects would inevitably sync with Brainstorm.

Dark Confidant causes too much damage, especially when considering cards like Wurmcoil Engine and Karn Liberated. I have lifelink. But I also have a 4 color mana base with 20 lands that cause life loss (pain lands, shock lands and fetches).

I think Austere Command is good, but certainly not strictly better than Merciless Eviction. The exile clause is very relevant.

I wasn't sure about Frost Titan at first, but he does a lot. I especially like that he can answer difficult nonbasic lands, particularly Maze of Ith which shuts out Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is a very good suggestion and I should probably make room for it somewhere. I like Massacre Wurm a lot though, it really is devastating against tokens.

Lightning Greaves is in my list (along with Sylvan Safekeeper). I just realized I had 98 cards listed instead of 99, the missing card was Lightning Greaves. Thanks for pointing this out!

Jace, the Mind Sculptor will always be enemy number one. I am running Nissa, Steward of Elements as a substitution to Rhystic Study because my primary play circle hates playing against that card. I also like that Nissa, Steward of Elements late game can be an alternate win condition. I certainly want to test her more though.

Future Sight is absolutely one of my favorite cards in all of magic. The triple blue is tough, but it generates so much value. I like Countersquall and Negate a lot, what is wrong with them? What counters (aside from Mana Drain) would you recommend substituting them with.

40 lands ensures I can consistently play Atraxa on turn 3 or turn 4. It also means I am more likely to get value out of Exploration, Oracle of Mul Daya and Burgeoning along with Explore. Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are deliberate omissions because they don't help bring out Atraxa earlier and they don't color fix which is crucial in a 4 color deck.

I don't want to play with tutors, but an optimized competitive list would certainly want to include those cards along with Mystical Tutor. Fellwar Stone is a great suggestion and for the most part going to be strictly better than Sphere of the Suns. I don't want to run too many artifacts though, one thing I like about green is having access to land ramp (Farseek, Nature's Lore, etc.) they are much less fragile.

You recommend Sensei's Divining Top, how do you feel about Mirri's Guile.

Can you recommend any multicolored lands that enter untapped aside from the original duals. I want to replace Mirrodin's Core and possibly Aether Hub.

Top will always be the superior card selection. It's instant speed whenever you want and doesn't die.

I think you're having trouble deciding on your game plan. Control is in no way, shape or form happy to cast threats early - it waits until the opponent has expended all their resources. What you're trying to do is pretty much Voltron with counterspell and removal backup... It's definitely not bad, but it definitely isn't control. Once you define what your deck is trying to do, you will have a much easier time picking cards that do it best.

Quote from shermanido37 »

Top will always be the superior card selection. It's instant speed whenever you want and doesn't die.

I think you're having trouble deciding on your game plan. Control is in no way, shape or form happy to cast threats early - it waits until the opponent has expended all their resources. What you're trying to do is pretty much Voltron with counterspell and removal backup... It's definitely not bad, but it definitely isn't control. Once you define what your deck is trying to do, you will have a much easier time picking cards that do it best.

It really is Four Color Midrange Control. That's what I want. I am not trying to play a dozen counterspells and board wipes.

Then why are you trying to get Atraxa out early? That's not really what control does. Isn't damage the last thing on your mind, after card advantage and resource (card + mana) suppression?

Quote from shermanido37 »

Then why are you trying to get Atraxa out early? That's not really what control does. Isn't damage the last thing on your mind, after card advantage and resource (card + mana) suppression?

I want to get Atraxa out early because she deters my opponents from attacking me due to her Deathtouch. Additionally, the lifelink helps gain back life due to a significant portion of the mana base causing life lose (20 lands including pain lands, fetch lands and shock lands).

A few thoughts:

1. Props for playing something original!
2. Lightning Greaves probably wants to be Swiftfoot Boots. Greaves also makes Atraxa untargetable for you, which means you cannot equip her with anything else unless you give your opponents a window to remove her. Assuming you even can, since you're playing only a few creatures.
3. Cascading Cataracts is probably a good land to play since it will fix all color issues you could possibly have.
4. I would play Three Visits over explore, given that you run shocks.
5. If you also want to rely on Atraxa for defense then I think you need ways to give her first strike. Seems like Duelist's Heritage or Fireshrieker could really help out here, as would some cards that restrict the amount of possible attackers: Dueling Grounds, silent Arbiter and Crawlspace all help out in that regard. I like the last one best as it does not prevent opponents from alpha striking each other. If you do want to add these, Maze of Ith and Kor Haven come prepacked with those.
6. I would replace Seal of Cleansing with Utter End. I love me some instant speed removal.
7. As Foretold seems like it could be good in this deck given the amount of instant speed interaction this deck has because "casting for free" also means "fixing your mana".
8. I second replacing Frost Titan with something better. Either Merieke Ri Berit for additional creature control or The Mimeoplasm as another finisher (It always ends up big and powerfull and doubles as graveyard hate).
9. I personally like the checklands more than the painlands if you also run shocks, the new cycling lands and the battlelands. since with atraxa you end up running 6 shocks, 3 cycling lands and 3 battle lands that's 12 lands with two types. and you can set up the proper type by Farseeking/Nature's Loring/Thee Visiting the proper shock. Over the course of the game, it saves you a ton of self inflicted damage by playing 6 checks.

Quote from Ertai Planeswalker »

A few thoughts:

1. Props for playing something original!
2. Lightning Greaves probably wants to be Swiftfoot Boots. Greaves also makes Atraxa untargetable for you, which means you cannot equip her with anything else unless you give your opponents a window to remove her. Assuming you even can, since you're playing only a few creatures.
3. Cascading Cataracts is probably a good land to play since it will fix all color issues you could possibly have.
4. I would play Three Visits over explore, given that you run shocks.
5. If you also want to rely on Atraxa for defense then I think you need ways to give her first strike. Seems like Duelist's Heritage or Fireshrieker could really help out here, as would some cards that restrict the amount of possible attackers: Dueling Grounds, silent Arbiter and Crawlspace all help out in that regard. I like the last one best as it does not prevent opponents from alpha striking each other. If you do want to add these, Maze of Ith and Kor Haven come prepacked with those.
6. I would replace Seal of Cleansing with Utter End. I love me some instant speed removal.
7. As Foretold seems like it could be good in this deck given the amount of instant speed interaction this deck has because "casting for free" also means "fixing your mana".
8. I second replacing Frost Titan with something better. Either Merieke Ri Berit for additional creature control or The Mimeoplasm as another finisher (It always ends up big and powerfull and doubles as graveyard hate).
9. I personally like the checklands more than the painlands if you also run shocks, the new cycling lands and the battlelands. since with atraxa you end up running 6 shocks, 3 cycling lands and 3 battle lands that's 12 lands with two types. and you can set up the proper type by Farseeking/Nature's Loring/Thee Visiting the proper shock. Over the course of the game, it saves you a ton of self inflicted damage by playing 6 checks.

This is great feedback and analysis. I'll touch on a few things you mentioned.

Three Visits is a card I would certainly run if it wasn't 60 dollars. I anticipate it will get a reprint eventually, perhaps in Iconic Masters. Then I will test it for sure.

I am going to replace Seal of Cleansing with something. I like Utter End, but four mana for one permanent seems not efficient enough.

I tested As Foretold and it doesn't seem good enough. Unless you play it on turn 2 or turn 3, it doesn't accomplish much. Late game it doesn't matter because we already have enough lands.

I like the check lands in 3 color and 2 color decks, but I feel in a 4 color deck they will enter untapped too often. I don't like Cascading Cataracts because it only fixes late game. By the time we have 5 lands, we shouldn't have any serious color problems.

I may replace Frost Titan with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite but I really like that Frost Titan is an answer to cards like Maze of Ith.

Later today I will update this thread with some changes.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated regarding the first changes I have made to the list:

May 9, 2017:
In: Fragmentize
Out: Seal of Cleansing
Reason: Aside from Sun Titan synergy, Seal of Cleansing doesn't have that many benefits. I have found Nature's Claim to be very successful in testing and Fragmentize often functions as an additional copy.

May 9, 2017:
In: Sakura-Tribal Elder
Out: Sphere of the Suns
Reason: Sphere of Suns has good synergy with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice due to proliferation, but it is more or less a gimmick. Sakura-Tribal Elder ramps and brings us land advantage. While it cannot make multiple colors, it offers us land which is much less fragile than Sphere of Suns. It is as a major benefit that were able to chump block prior to activating Sakura-Tribal Elder.

May 9, 2017:
In: Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Out: Bitterblossom
Reason: Bitterblossom is a great card, but it is especially useful early game when we would rather be ramping. Additionally this deck does not include many cards that can take advantage of the tokens. Linvala, Keeper of Silence brings an additional control element to the deck by acting as a Cursed Totem that only impacts our opponents.

May 9, 2017:
In: Phyrexian Arena
Out: Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
Reason: Like Sphere of Suns, Glint-Sleeve Siphoner has good synergy with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice but it is essentially a gimmicky Phyrexian Arena that is less reliable. The double B in the mana cost can be problematic, but our mana base is strong enough where it usually shouldn't be an issue.

May 9, 2017:
In: Nissa, Steward of Elements
Out: Courser of Kruphix
Reason: Nissa, Steward of Elements a solid card advantage engine that scales into late game as an alternate win condition but this deck list only runs a handful of creatures. Courser of Kruphix provides us card advantage in the form of lands and provides life gain that helps offset the GWUB life loss inducing mana base.

May 9, 2017:
In: Tendo Ice Bridge
Out: Mirrodin's Core
Reason: Both of these cards do similar things, but in my experience Mirrodin's Core is too slow. Tendo Ice Bridge ensures I can make colored mana early game.

Note: These updates have also been added to the change log in the first post of the thread.

1. I don't know where you live, but on Magiccardmarket an English version of Three Visits starts at 25 euro, a Chinese version for 19 euro. Not saying it's cheap but it is more affordable than you think.
2. I know it's expensive but if you have it, a Dark Confidant is better than Phyrexian Arena because it only costs a single black mana. Atraxa's lifegain will more than offset the life loss from the confidant.
3. I see you replaced Seal of Cleansing with Fragmentize, but I would suggest Deglamer instead. I know it costs one mana more, but it prevents easy recursion and can actually remove a god or indestructible artifact.
4. Linvala, Keeper of Silence This is more a meta-call, but in my meta Gravepact effects are very common. Since you play so litte creatures, this is a serious weakness. Maybe playing Sigarda, Host of Herons is better in this slot. But again, depends on your meta.
5. I would replace Countersquall with Arcane Denial. The lifeloss rider is negligible and in multiplayer, Arcane Denial's card draw for the opponent is not that bad either. But is is easier to cast and can also counter creatures which makes it much better imo. And in corner cases, you could even counter something of yourself in order to have it double as card draw.
6. Your post and the decklist in post #1 conflict, but I just want to say that I don't feel you play enough creatures to make Nissa, Steward of Elements worth it. Thassa, God of the Sea is easier to cast, harder to remove, and increases the quality of your draws as well. And even though it will probably never become a creature, the unblockability granting can help your other creatures get there.
7. Another creature that could play well in this deck is Rhonas the Indomitable. As soon as you control Atraxa, he is a creature, and his ability can help you get commander damage through. And he is a perfect blocker as well.
8. Yavimaya Hollow can help keep Atraxa alive for blocking and doesn't eat a slot. Seems worth running to me.

Three Visits is too expensive and not totally necessary. On TCGPlayer, the lowest price for a near mint copy in english is $49.99.

I think you raise good points about Rhonas the Indomitable it seems bad without Atraxa, Praetors' Voice on the battlefield and I want the cards I'm running to be useful with or without Atraxa.

Yavimaya Hollow makes colorless mana in a 4 color deck which I really don't want to do. I know my mana base is good and perhaps I'm being too cautious but I really want it to be very easy for me to be able to cast my spells. If I did run colorless lands, I'd run Strip Mine/Wasteland before Yavimaya Hollow.

Grave Pact effects are very rare in my meta (we for the most part all agree they are incredibly unfun to play against), that being said Sigarda, Host of Herons would be a great addition if they I was concerned about them. That being said, if I were to encounter troublesome enchantments I have a dozen spells that can answer them. Linvala, Keeper of Silence shuts down mana dorks, Eldrazi Spawn Tokens, along with powerful generals like Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, and Jhoira of the Ghitu

I don't believe Dark Confidant is strictly better than Phyrexian Arena. Phyrexian Arena is far less fragile and I believe you are underestimating the life loss Dark Confidant brings. Atraxa won't always be on the battlefield and I don't want to run cards where they are only good in tandem with her.