I think you're right about multi-land ramp and non-basic tutors, I like Splendid Reclamation here, too. Any suggestions on cuts? Part of it is I just haven't got to do a ton of testing, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to drop.
As far as your removals, I disagree with Titania and Roil. I think they're great for this deck.
These are the ones I'd consider cutting and why. Some of these are just preferences that I've formed from testing a couple different mono-green decks to see what style(s) I enjoy playing:
Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse - These are more for a couple extra landfall triggers than ramp/fixing. There are betteroptions, though you only have 3 landfall triggers that have plenty of fuel.
Masked Admirers and Yavimaya Elder - These two are not very good card draw compared to some of the other big burst draw effects and draw engines.
Strata Scythe - Since your strategy is going wide and you have at least four Overrun-style enablers, I really don't think you need this.
Triumph of the Hordes - Same as the Scythe. If you can't take out their actual life total and need this to win, then the main strategy of the deck is failing and needs adjustment. This can possibly hide such weaknesses. Plus it's a jerk move (and so is Hall of Gemstone).
Sol Ring - Mono-green ramp. The mana provided will be a drop in the bucket and the slot could be something that actually helps the deck. Amulate of Vigor will be so much better.
Animist's Awakening - By the time you're ready to pump enough into x, you've already ramped a lot of your lands out of the deck anyway. Abundance combos with Library and helps a lot with your massive draw spells. That or Boundless Realms will get you lands better. Abundance also helps protect you from decking yourself if you draw too much.
Gaea's Anthem - This slot could have something much stronger, such as one of the flying defense enchantments.
There also isn't much recursion (though fortunately you're not abusing Eternal Witness over and over). With this much draw I tend to prefer shuffling the graveyard in rather than returning specific cards (though Seasons Past is awesome). Elixir of Immortality is an option, though I'd probably use Primal Command. Bow of Nylea can help keep your library going, too, with the added bonus of adding deathtouch to your trample.
More instant-speed removal might be warranted. Your only one right now is Beast Within. If you have Scour from Existence and/or Krosan Grip those are good options. I sometimes include Bramblecrush or Desert Twister for slower options that can hit additional types (Ulamog helps a lot for you in this regard).
I just feel silly now. What you should have in the deck is Timber Protector. As since the bulk of your lands are forests, it might as well read "Land creatures you control are indestructible" which is very handy and it also makes Timber Protector into another obstacle for your opponent.
Masked Admirers : I think that's a very slow effect and there are tons of burst draw spells you can use. Rampaging Baloths : I always found this card underwhelming. Note that I have never used it in my decks ( I don't own one) but when I see it on a table it is easily removed. Could be dead wrong on my assessment though. Soul of new Phyrexia: It is a decent card. But perhaps you should consider if this is the best mana sink you can add to the deck. Steel Hellkite: Same as above.
Ulamog: Great card, I just mention it because eldrazi some times are the lazy (see what i did there :P) way to build Yavimaya Elder: It's two effects in a card but I am not sold on this. Crucible of Worlds: Good card if you expect lots of wipes. Strata Scythe: As previous posters mentioned, this deck needs to go wide Gaea's Anthem: I think this has a very weak effect. Constant Mists: This is a good card but do you want to sac lands so easily? I would add Moment's peace
Man, I so want to build this deck but I am out of my budget
Wow, yeah I'm getting a little overwhelmed by all of the suggestions, haha. I've incorporated some of these new suggestions, but I'm going to wait until I can get some testing in before I make any changes to the main list again. I'm starting to tweak the list faster than I can test...which probably isn't very productive.
Your mention of Steel Hellkite also reminded me that I actually cut it already, I just forgot to make that change when I last updated. I put Howling Mine in its place. Yes, the mine lets everyone draw, but something I've found with my testing so far is I really need some card draw in order to actually be able to use Jolrael's activated ability.
Jolrael has been in my on-deck pile for my Titania build for the longest time, what a fun card. I've had a lot of luck with Natural Affinity, it's super tricky and opponents don't see it coming, especially when Jolrael isn't on the board or you're light on cards for her ability.
Yeah, I've been trying to decide if cards like that are worth it for some redundancy with Jolrael's ability. I know for sure I don't want the enchantments that permanently make lands creatures because I don't like the idea of a board wipe becoming an Armageddon. However the one shot cards like Natural Affinity could be good, purely for the surprise factor.
Yeah, I think "untap all creatures/lands" effects have a lot of potential here. Benefactor's Draught has worked wonders for me so far, and I'm considering adding either Early Harvest or Vitalize, too.
Yeah, I think Patron was brought up in an earlier comment. He is certainly strong, and I have a weak spot for Kamigawa cards, but I'm a little turned off by the mana cost, hence why he hasn't been included.
I don't think I'd try Llanowar Druid because being a creature, he's slow, and he has to sacrifice himself. I'd rather have a one-off effect in the form of an instant or sorcery, or have a repeatable creature ability.
You have plenty of cards that ramp you up into an easy 7-10 lands with little trouble. Eight isn't going to break the bank. I was just mulling through some cards and I noticed a personally silly favorite of mine, Gigantomancer. If you Natural Affinity you can also have some of your lands become 7/7s instead of 1/1s or 2/2s.
It's true that I have a ton of ramp. The reason I'm skeptical of the mana cost is it's a creature that doesn't make an immediate impact on the board. True, once my next turn comes around, the ability is very powerful, but it only matters if the creature can survive. I'm just worried about spending 8 mana, only to have the creature destroyed or my whole board getting wiped.
True, once my next turn comes around, the ability is very powerful, but it only matters if the creature can survive. I'm just worried about spending 8 mana, only to have the creature destroyed or my whole board getting wiped.
These concerns are givens for every card and every game.
Try wacky stuff. The worst that can happen is you lose some games because it hindered rather than helped. In the long run those losses will keep your reputation with your playgroup in balance.
That's a fair point. I've got a core list that I'm testing right now and a long list of "maybes," but I think you've convinced me to at least add Patron of the Orochi to that second list.
I concur with most of the things everyone else has been suggesting, especially lyonhaert. I have a Polukranos, World Eater deck that loves blowout plays. Extensive testing showed me that ramping spells that get multiple lands in play are well worth the mana investment and patience, i.e.: Skyshroud Claim, Ranger's Path, Boundless Realms, etc. Untapping all your lands and/or creatures is definitely too broken to pass up, as well. So Seedborn Muse, Patron of the Orochi, etc. should all be seriously considered. Having those effects at instant speed also serves as an attack deterrent since you can be very political with your plays. Being able to change all your lands into creatures and then casting something to untap all your creatures will make devastating blocks or simply produce an insane amount of mana.
If your deck is all about the lands, I also suggest having a slight landfall theme in order to move the deck forwards. You can get a lot of mileage out of landfall in a ramp deck. There's just so many things you can do within the spirit of what you want your deck to be that it is indeed overwhelming!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Glad you like the deck so much! Nissa is already on my list of things to test I like Earth Surge. I'm actually cutting Gaea's Anthem, but this one might be better. I also like Primal Order as a way to get in some incremental damage. I had the sundial in here for a while, but it's a little slow for my tastes.
It's funny you mention that card, because I played the deck some this weekend and someone else at the table played it and I thought "wow, why haven't I considered that for this deck?" Haha. So as of yesterday yes, Veteran Explorer is on my maybe list
Not much to report from the games this weekend. I played three with Jolrael. For some reason, I can't remember anything that happened in the first game... The second and third games were both three-player pods. One was against Phenax mill and Bant control (two partner commanders, I can't remember who exactly). Phenax had out Crumbling Sanctuary with 70 cards in his deck and I was still able to take him out with Overrun + 9 animated Forests + Lifeblood Hydra with X = 10. Unfortunately, in response to my attack, he was able to mill me out, so even though he lost first, I was out on my next turn. Game 3 was with Mizzix pre-con right out of the box and Freyalise Elf Ball. Somehow, I actually got land screwed with this deck (I kept 3 lands, Into the Wilds and Nissa, Vastwood Seer and then proceeded to draw 0 lands...it happens...) so Elfball got an easy win. Overall, I'm very happy with where this deck is going.
Interesting. Veteran Explorer I found handy as I personally utilize Hua Tuo, Honored Physician to reclaim him and other good targets that tend to hit the yard. Would the physician, be good here? Dunno honestly. But the Veteran helps as its like a cheaper and more easily to kill Solemn Simulacrum.
I'm not sold on Hua Tuo, Honored Physician. As a creature who needs to tap and who puts the creature on top of your library, he's a little slow. Plus, there aren't a ton of creatures we need to recur, except maybe Eternal Witness.
Regrowth has the advantage over EWit of costing one less mana. However, the reason I prefer the creature here is with all of our Overrun-type effects, EWit gives us an extra body to go in for the charge.
I'll update the list later tonight or tomorrow. I'm taking this deck to the weekly league at my LGS, and I want some more testing of its current form before I update the main list.
These are the ones I'd consider cutting and why. Some of these are just preferences that I've formed from testing a couple different mono-green decks to see what style(s) I enjoy playing:
More instant-speed removal might be warranted. Your only one right now is Beast Within. If you have Scour from Existence and/or Krosan Grip those are good options. I sometimes include Bramblecrush or Desert Twister for slower options that can hit additional types (Ulamog helps a lot for you in this regard).
Fog-wise instead of Constant Mists I prefer things like Spore Cloud or Arachnogenesis that help you retaliate even though Mists has buyback.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Masked Admirers : I think that's a very slow effect and there are tons of burst draw spells you can use.
Rampaging Baloths : I always found this card underwhelming. Note that I have never used it in my decks ( I don't own one) but when I see it on a table it is easily removed. Could be dead wrong on my assessment though.
Soul of new Phyrexia: It is a decent card. But perhaps you should consider if this is the best mana sink you can add to the deck.
Steel Hellkite: Same as above.
Ulamog: Great card, I just mention it because eldrazi some times are the lazy (see what i did there :P) way to build
Yavimaya Elder: It's two effects in a card but I am not sold on this.
Crucible of Worlds: Good card if you expect lots of wipes.
Strata Scythe: As previous posters mentioned, this deck needs to go wide
Gaea's Anthem: I think this has a very weak effect.
Constant Mists: This is a good card but do you want to sac lands so easily? I would add Moment's peace
Man, I so want to build this deck but I am out of my budget
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Your mention of Steel Hellkite also reminded me that I actually cut it already, I just forgot to make that change when I last updated. I put Howling Mine in its place. Yes, the mine lets everyone draw, but something I've found with my testing so far is I really need some card draw in order to actually be able to use Jolrael's activated ability.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I don't think I'd try Llanowar Druid because being a creature, he's slow, and he has to sacrifice himself. I'd rather have a one-off effect in the form of an instant or sorcery, or have a repeatable creature ability.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Try wacky stuff. The worst that can happen is you lose some games because it hindered rather than helped. In the long run those losses will keep your reputation with your playgroup in balance.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
If your deck is all about the lands, I also suggest having a slight landfall theme in order to move the deck forwards. You can get a lot of mileage out of landfall in a ramp deck. There's just so many things you can do within the spirit of what you want your deck to be that it is indeed overwhelming!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
EDIT: I had some other thoughts - namely, a Treefolk Harbinger package could be nice.
Glad you like the deck so much! Nissa is already on my list of things to test I like Earth Surge. I'm actually cutting Gaea's Anthem, but this one might be better. I also like Primal Order as a way to get in some incremental damage. I had the sundial in here for a while, but it's a little slow for my tastes.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Not much to report from the games this weekend. I played three with Jolrael. For some reason, I can't remember anything that happened in the first game... The second and third games were both three-player pods. One was against Phenax mill and Bant control (two partner commanders, I can't remember who exactly). Phenax had out Crumbling Sanctuary with 70 cards in his deck and I was still able to take him out with Overrun + 9 animated Forests + Lifeblood Hydra with X = 10. Unfortunately, in response to my attack, he was able to mill me out, so even though he lost first, I was out on my next turn. Game 3 was with Mizzix pre-con right out of the box and Freyalise Elf Ball. Somehow, I actually got land screwed with this deck (I kept 3 lands, Into the Wilds and Nissa, Vastwood Seer and then proceeded to draw 0 lands...it happens...) so Elfball got an easy win. Overall, I'm very happy with where this deck is going.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Happy to hear its progressing with how you want.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I'll update the list later tonight or tomorrow. I'm taking this deck to the weekly league at my LGS, and I want some more testing of its current form before I update the main list.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG