MTG Salvation

So I've been using Ulamog (New) as my commander for a good 5 months now, and it's worked out pretty well for me.

Recently a friend of mine told me I should be running (old) Kozilek as my commander. Another friend says Ulamog is way better.

Kozilek has card draw, but Ulamog has 20 card exile. I'm leaning towards keeping it as Ulamog, but I wanted to know your guy's opinions!

Thanks.

Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

It draws 4 cards upon cast and represents -4 permanents whenever it attacks. Aside from annihilating 4 permanents, refilling your hand for a potential recast or another plan is dangerous. Obviously, the quicker you get to your commander, the better.

Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is solid with exile 2 permanents upon cast. The exile 20 is not as threatening as Annihlator 4. Now, most new age double digit CMC spells are obviously threatening; all threats need to be answered. The Butcher has the edge.

Keep brewing.

As a commander, Kozilek is better, simply because he refuels you, kills faster (He can kill in 2 unblocked hits, Ulamog needs 3) and depletes your opponent's direct resources just by swinging. The trick is to power him out using artifacts, which is going to empty your hand. The draw 4 helps immensely in that case.

I think Kozilek is better in multiplayer. There's also a neat little trick with him when he dies, you can get a free Feldon's Cane effect and then put him back to the command zone thanks to the format rule. Having Ulamog in the deck means you can surprise opponents.

Thanks for the input guys!
I'll go with him then. If anyone is interested in my decklist or has any suggestions, this is my deck (Minus my gold border Wasteland and Ancient Tomb)

I recently changed from Newlamog to Oldzilek.

The difference is in perception.

With new every time you trigger his attack ability, youre effectively neutering someone's deck. Having that ability on tap and repeatable is griefy as hell. Sure it wins games, but does it win hearts?

With old you have some brutal abilities with the annihilator and draw four, but you're not as actively hating your opponents out of the game. You still have access to newlamog in the 99 if you want him there, and there are plenty of ways to get him running, but Kozi is a more well rounded, less hate drawing commander.

To me that's the difference. It's catering to the perception of your playgroup, so that they don't hate you out of the game. You can still game hard with Kozilek, but it's less in your face grief. Part of me wants to call a spade a spade, beat face and win games with Newlamog, but I know it's not in my best interests to do so. I'm more likely to remember a game in which I exiled someone's deck and won for them getting upset at not being able to compete, and that's not a memory I want.

Up to you on what you like more... but as many said... kozilek. Refeuling your hand is a must, especially when Koz is killed or countered

We're moving more towards decklist discussion, so I've moved this to Multiplayer Decklists.

Kozilek isn't indestructible so that weights heavilly on Ulamog.

Indestrutabily isn't much of an issue in some metas. For example, my meta is alllll swords and paths for days. Murder is a rare thing to see. Plus even worse then exile is every counter is saved for him.

Plus quite honestly, if your deck is good enough, if you can refresh your hand, koz is almost always coming out next turn

It seems like the OP already made his decision, but I would like to add that I agree with the above pose, ie indestructible is not that powerful and most decks can answer it and that 2 these colorless decks rely heavily on ramp and as such play out their hands quickly. While newlamog is a better win condition he is likely to be answered leaving you with no back up plan. Card draw is hard to come by in colorless, much rarer than powerful beaters, so having repeatable card draw will be much better in most situations. Of course if your play group doesn't run ways to interact with newlamog then he will be better. If you play 1v1 then newlamog is better because now the exile 2 permanents provides an actual card and tempo advantage instead of just pissing off one opponent.

I personally find newlamog way weaker than any other choice of general for colorless. As the exile two on cast is great, but after that you're stuck with an empty hand and a big fatty that gets answered very easily. And if he doesn't,.. "ehh" people will still combo out or keep playing even after a portion of their deck is exiled. It doesn't matter as much as annihilator would.

If you're going for infinite mana and sac outlet, he's good for exiling everyone's field but old Ulamog can just destroy them and brings annihilator with him.

Neither have draw though, which is infinitely more needed in colorless. (and heck, better with infinite mana and sac if you're into that)

But hey, I might be biased. he he

Quote from Juwdah »

I personally find newlamog way weaker than any other choice of general for colorless. As the exile two on cast is great, but after that you're stuck with an empty hand and a big fatty that gets answered very easily. And if he doesn't,.. "ehh" people will still combo out or keep playing even after a portion of their deck is exiled. It doesn't matter as much as annihilator would.

If you're going for infinite mana and sac outlet, he's good for exiling everyone's field but old Ulamog can just destroy them and brings annihilator with him.

Neither have draw though, which is infinitely more needed in colorless. (and heck, better with infinite mana and sac if you're into that)

But hey, I might be biased. he he

I am also biased but I also would play either Kozilek over any of the other colorless options. I play the new Kozilek which I feel a little less guilty about as the annihilate feels really rough.

I will say though counterspelling blue players with colorless abilities that cost no mana is..... extremely fun. The two kozileks do play a LOT differently between the two cards.

Quote from pulli23 »

Wait, how is "mill 20 to exile" any form of neutering a deck? - Those "20 cards" might as well be the "bottom twenty" of a deck. Thus unless you tutor a lot (or for a dedicated wheels deck) never achievable. - and another 20 rise to the top.

The old titans (and annihilator 4) are in my playgroup considered way worse: a single attack often destroys someones complete boardstate. (My playgroup plays a lot of boardwipes, so if you have to destroy lands you can't rebuild).

It is a fifth of your deck, plus whatever Newlamog exiles on entry. Strionic Resonator and Rings of Brighthearth targeting the stri would blow someone out of the water, and that's very achievable. Granted it could be anything you're exiling, but to me it's still pretty griefy. But then I stay away from mill strategies in my decks where possible, my playgroup aren't fans.

In saying that, I definitely get it, annihilator is savage, one attack can completely change the boardstate. It's a very powerful ability.

Quote from pulli23 »

Uh I'm sorry but this is even more a problem for annihilator: sacrifice 12 permanents is basically: "well you're still in the game, but you don't count anymore, might as well give up". I rather lose upfront to twice mill 60 (while still being able to do the things I have on the board between those turns) than to get into a state where I am just a wall-flower and draw-go passing the most "long" turns of a game.

You might consider Kozilek, the Great Distortion then. I like him personally because the annihilate does super feel bad. I also like that I feel like I am playing more of an aggro / control deck than a combo / stax deck which is how I feel the original Koziek feels.

I have been playing Kozilek, the Great Distortion for about a year now and I still love playing the deck.

Uh I'm sorry but this is even more a problem for annihilator: sacrifice 12 permanents is basically: "well you're still in the game, but you don't count anymore, might as well give up". I rather lose upfront to twice mill 60 (while still being able to do the things I have on the board between those turns) than to get into a state where I am just a wall-flower and draw-go passing the most "long" turns of a game.

Fair enough, but there are builds for which both of these strategies would be equally devastating, or one more so than the other. Swarm decks, I don't care if I'm saccing 12 to annihilator, but if you exile my token generating cards I'm screwed. I have a Ghave, guru of Spores that could take 12 sacs for a few turns without too much problem, but if you start exiling my cards I'm done for. On the other side of the coin, there are cards that are worth far more in play than in a deck and annihilator becomes more powerful. We're both arguing for one being more universally powerful than the other, and it differs for different metas and different builds. Neither one of us is right. Granted, if you can push the advantage enough, annihilator is probably devastating in more scenarios than the exile.

My original point however was about perception. People see an indestructible exiling beast in the command zone and they will target you, whereas Kozi looks more friendly. It's no different to running a non combo Sharuum the Hegemon or Arcum Dagsson deck. You'll draw hate whether the deck is degenerate or not. The way people see it they can't afford to give your deck the benefit of the doubt. Which may or may not be fair enough, but as Kozi looks less mean he would my choice to run.

Thanks for all the advice guys!
I've been running Kozilek for the past few games and haven't been doing as well in all honesty. And for one simple reason; Kozilek is not indestructible. Ulamog could be flung around carelessly and people were afraid of it because unless it was exiled, it was not going away. I'm going to add some equipment that can get trample and maybe indestructible, but I would only have a 1/33 chance of drawing one of the 3 cards I'm considering adding.

I'm not saying I'm going to go back to Ulamog, but I need to figure out how to make Kozilek work.

Oh and by the way, my other deck is Krenko and I typically win before turn 10. So trust me, I'm no stranger to having a target on my back.

Are these murder spells or overall board wipes? Not too helpful but there are two counters for your colorless eldrazi if you don't have them , warping wail being one(on phone and forgot the name of the other

As mentioned before, depends on your usual meta. Great thing about them is that they're interchangeable and the other is always waiting in your deck. Cool thing about koz though is you're always getting closer to your next eldrazi upon cast

Quote from JTORTELLINI »

Thanks for all the advice guys!
I've been running Kozilek for the past few games and haven't been doing as well in all honesty. And for one simple reason; Kozilek is not indestructible. Ulamog could be flung around carelessly and people were afraid of it because unless it was exiled, it was not going away. I'm going to add some equipment that can get trample and maybe indestructible, but I would only have a 1/33 chance of drawing one of the 3 cards I'm considering adding.

I'm not saying I'm going to go back to Ulamog, but I need to figure out how to make Kozilek work.

Oh and by the way, my other deck is Krenko and I typically win before turn 10. So trust me, I'm no stranger to having a target on my back.

Null Brooch could help? Otherwise, I'd not be too worried as long as you have ample mana supply to cast again. That's where Kozi shines - every time you cast you draw 4, so who cares too much if you're doing that again and again. There's plenty of ways to mitigate the destruction rather than making him indestructible. If you're taking that tack you may as well return to Newlamog and save yourself the deck space.

The other option is haste enablers to make sure you get a good swing with Kozi before he goes. Akroma's Memorial, Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots...and 2/3 of those cover people trying to counter/destroy him too.