Hey folks, I was wondering if I could get some feedback on my 4-color enchantress deck. I wouldn't say it is bad, but it feels very messy at the moment/the numbers seem off. Just let me know if you need more info on what I am going for, though honestly I am not entirely sure myself. Thanks!
Do keep in mind that the mana base is just going off of the K&T precon mana base so it will probably change at some point.
I am no master compared to a lot of people on here but right now you have a deck built on enchantments and drawing cards based on that. You also have a lot of mana ramp too. The problem is that you do not have a win condition, additionally you do not have any cards that allow you to have "no maximum handsize" like Reliquary Tower. If anything, just take a look at all the Enchantment Creatures from the Theros block and all the gods and see what you want to cobble up.
I created my own deck with Roon as my commander (see signature) that got pretty annoying for my friends.
Yea sorry, the whole decklist is kinda a mess (sorta like my thought process behind the deck). I am just about to update it with some changes as well as in a more coherent format. For the record, my win cons are Enchanted Evening+Aura Thief, Purphoros+token generators (as well as the tokens themselves), and Starfield of Nyx. Other possible win cons are general beats and Enchanted Evening+ either Aura Shards or Starfield.
So yea, a lot of changes have occurred. Considering that the deck is still missing a little less than 20% of its cards, it is doing awesome: I have won my last 4 games (2 off of Purphoros/tokens, 1 off of Humility lockout, 1 off of pillowfort survival). I will start doing a more in-depth write up in the opening post when I get the chance, but first, I have a few questions for you folks. So as to minimize question overload I will ask them one at a time:
First, I am having some trouble figuring out my ramp/fixing pieces. I am unsure what setup would be most optimal-the cards that I am on the fence about are as follows:
Carpet of Flowers: great card but can whiff hard especially as I play in a more casual meta. Utopia Sprawl: this is great, however, the forest restriction has me worried especially as this is a 4 color deck. Does anyone have experience with this card? Bloom Tender: ramps hard and allows me to find ramp with Wordly Tutor/Eladamri's Call if I need it, however, it does little else. It is kinda between this and the next card... Farhaven Elf: ramps less than Tender but is more permanent, less aggro, and combos with things like Skybind and Sun Titan. Prismatic Omen: only fixes, but fixes great and is an enchantment. Earthcraft: requires tokens, but wins the game/ramps if it gets going. I am unsure if I want an infinite combo in here though (again, trying to stay more casual). Frontier Siege: more expensive than Carpet of Flowers, but also more reliable. Plus the dragons side can actually do some work with an active Luminarch Ascension or a Sacred Mesa. Mana Reflection: great card, just super expensive to cast. Plus, I think Wake is more useful for the tokens and Omniscience is game winning.
Once I get this section in better shape I will ask the next question that is plaguing me.
I actually have a Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Enchantress deck. It is my absolute favorite, and even my darling, who is a certified U mage with no love for permanents in play (his pet decks are Baral, Chief of Compliance mono-U control and Mizzix of the Izmagnus storm...) keeps coming back to play this one.
My decklist is here. My win-cons are the Theros gods or K&T with an Ancestral Mask or some such. Obliterate with some devotion will do it, too.
In my experience, Land Tax will not help you. K&T generally have more lands than anyone else. I love the mana doublers, so I run Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, and Zendikar Resurgent. They can beat face with Starfield of Nyx (another pet card) in play, and honestly, having the mana to keep play the enchantments that let me draw that let me play more is amazing, and Aggravated Assault with Bear Umbra makes for a fun beatdown.
I actually have a Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Enchantress deck. It is my absolute favorite, and even my darling, who is a certified U mage with no love for permanents in play (his pet decks are Baral, Chief of Compliance mono-U control and Mizzix of the Izmagnus storm...) keeps coming back to play this one.
My decklist is here. My win-cons are the Theros gods or K&T with an Ancestral Mask or some such. Obliterate with some devotion will do it, too.
In my experience, Land Tax will not help you. K&T generally have more lands than anyone else. I love the mana doublers, so I run Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, and Zendikar Resurgent. They can beat face with Starfield of Nyx (another pet card) in play, and honestly, having the mana to keep play the enchantments that let me draw that let me play more is amazing, and Aggravated Assault with Bear Umbra makes for a fun beatdown.
Yea I am beginning to realize that Land Tax is pretty meh in the list-especially as I don't/shouldn't run Scroll Rack. That being said, our decks are really really different (you are running beatdown whereas I prefer to just win). Any thoughts on what to replace it with?
In Enchantress, I love Bear Umbra. As an umbra, it saves a creature that I really want to survive, also, I have never been sorry to untap all my lands.
Too narrow in a multiplayer setting. I would consider regular Moat before using Teferi's. Even then I would be unsure of it as I still want to be able to atrack with a Humility in play. Good idea though.
Teferi's Moat is a cheap alternative to original moat. What it does is stop the agro player giving you time to set up your field. I play my K&T as a pure control build.
Yea but what if the aggro player is playing more than one color? I have never seen it played just like I have never seen circle of protections (or even story circle) played. Besides I already have 3 propaganda effects and Solitary Confinement which are all much more useful.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The problem with epic struggle and endurance is that it takes an entire turn cycle for them to work. The nice part about thief/meditation us that I can wait for the most opportune moment to pull the trigger. I compare those cards to one another as they would be fighting over the same slot; they all only combo with Enchanted evening and are pretty meh on their own. That being said, I would love some more lifegain (I only have blind obedience at the moment). Any suggestions in that regard would be very useful.
In other news, I think I am gonna stick with thief: meditation requires less cards and resources, however, if evening gets blown up or my grave wiped, it could potentially be far more fatal. There is less counterplay with thief.
Righteous Cause can help, though Orim's Prayer is cheaper and makes opponents less likely to attack you. Nyx-Fleece Ram gains life turn after turn and Angelic Chorus gains you life for playing lots of creatures (handy with Evening and Starfield on the, er, field).
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Righteous Cause can help, though Orim's Prayer is cheaper and makes opponents less likely to attack you. Nyx-Fleece Ram gains life turn after turn and Angelic Chorus gains you life for playing lots of creatures (handy with Evening and Starfield on the, er, field).
These are all interesting options, however, though you probably did not intend to, you reminded me of a different card that will both gain me life and draw cards (another issue I am having is card draw that isn't reliant on other cards) plus it is Tutor able with mystical Tutor (I generally like to make sure that all of my tutors, when possible, can find me both ramp and card draw): sphinx's revelation. So thanks for that! Not sure what I should remove. I was thinking null rod due to it being redundant. Still, rod is a great card. Any suggestions on cuts!
Well, the deck is enchantment-focused and you yourself said Null Rod was redundant, so I'd go ahead and cut it. You can always find a place for it in artifact control alongside the likes of Torpor Orb and Winter Orb.
Treasure Trove is a good source of card draw, if a bit mana-intensive. But hey, you can always activate it just before your turn. Unifying Theory is another interesting choice, though it can benefit your opponents as well. Well of Ideas is a little expensive, but splashable. Fevered Visions punishes opponents for benefitting from mutual card draw enchantments.
The Hondens would be good considerations for your deck; if you can assemble all four available in your colors, you'll be creating four tokens, gaining 8 life, drawing four cards, and dealing 4 damage to target creature or player at the beginning of your upkeep.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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Do keep in mind that the mana base is just going off of the K&T precon mana base so it will probably change at some point.
1 Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis (Foil)
//Win Conditions
1 Aura Thief *
1 Enchanted Evening (Foil)
1 Starfield of Nyx *
//Draw
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Argothian Enchantress *
1 Sylvan Library
1 Mesa Enchantress
1 Verduran Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms (Foil)
1 Enchantress's Presence *
//Ramp and Fixing
1 Carpet of Flowers *
1 Crop Rotation *
1 Land Tax
1 Wild Growth
1 Bloom Tender *
1 Fertile Ground
1 Trace of Abundance
1 Cultivate (Foil)
1 Abundance
1 Mirari's Wake *
//Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor *
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call *
1 Idyllic Tutor (Foil)
1 Wargate
1 Wild Research (Foil)
1 Academy Rector
1 Blind Obedience (Foil)
1 Sterling Grove (Foil)
1 Ghostly Prison (Foil)
1 Martyr's Cause (Foil)
1 Propaganda
1 Solitary Confinement *
1 Privileged Position (Foil)
1 Sphere of Safety (Foil)
//Token Generators/Synergy
1 Luminarch Ascension (Foil)
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Heliod, God of the Sun *
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge (Foil)
1 Assemble the Legion *
//Recursion
1 Auramancer *
1 Cloudstone Curio (Korean)
1 Eternal Witness
1 Replenish
1 Skybind (Foil)
1 Sun Titan (Foil)
//Counters, Hate, and Removal
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Boros Charm *
1 Negate *
1 Null Rod
1 Rest in Peace
1 Shivan Harvest
1 Stony Silence
1 Aura Shards
1 Beast Within
1 Humility
1 Perplexing Chimera
1 Obliterate *
1 Genesis Wave
1 Leyline of Anticipation *
1 Omniscience *
//Lands
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Ash Barrens
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Gruul Turf
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Krosan Verge
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (Foil)
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Mistveil Plains
5 Plains
2 Island
2 Mountain
6 Forest
* = cards I don't currently own/haven't gotten around to adding to the physical deck yet.
I created my own deck with Roon as my commander (see signature) that got pretty annoying for my friends.
BURWGSliver Hivelord's alt wincon deck at Maze's EndBURWG
GWBSidar Kondo and Ikra Shidiq likes big butts
RUMizzix of the Izmagnus Super ThiefRU
BURWGGeneral Tazri, The Megazord AllyBURWG
BURJeleva Mill and Kill BUR
BRGrenzo's get out from under that deck!BR
WUG Roon's Enchanted Evening (enchantment deck) WUG
BUG The Undersea World of Tasigur CousteauBUG
BWGAnafenza, Counter QueenBWG
First, I am having some trouble figuring out my ramp/fixing pieces. I am unsure what setup would be most optimal-the cards that I am on the fence about are as follows:
Carpet of Flowers: great card but can whiff hard especially as I play in a more casual meta.
Utopia Sprawl: this is great, however, the forest restriction has me worried especially as this is a 4 color deck. Does anyone have experience with this card?
Bloom Tender: ramps hard and allows me to find ramp with Wordly Tutor/Eladamri's Call if I need it, however, it does little else. It is kinda between this and the next card...
Farhaven Elf: ramps less than Tender but is more permanent, less aggro, and combos with things like Skybind and Sun Titan.
Prismatic Omen: only fixes, but fixes great and is an enchantment.
Earthcraft: requires tokens, but wins the game/ramps if it gets going. I am unsure if I want an infinite combo in here though (again, trying to stay more casual).
Frontier Siege: more expensive than Carpet of Flowers, but also more reliable. Plus the dragons side can actually do some work with an active Luminarch Ascension or a Sacred Mesa.
Mana Reflection: great card, just super expensive to cast. Plus, I think Wake is more useful for the tokens and Omniscience is game winning.
Once I get this section in better shape I will ask the next question that is plaguing me.
My decklist is here. My win-cons are the Theros gods or K&T with an Ancestral Mask or some such. Obliterate with some devotion will do it, too.
In my experience, Land Tax will not help you. K&T generally have more lands than anyone else. I love the mana doublers, so I run Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, and Zendikar Resurgent. They can beat face with Starfield of Nyx (another pet card) in play, and honestly, having the mana to keep play the enchantments that let me draw that let me play more is amazing, and Aggravated Assault with Bear Umbra makes for a fun beatdown.
Yea I am beginning to realize that Land Tax is pretty meh in the list-especially as I don't/shouldn't run Scroll Rack. That being said, our decks are really really different (you are running beatdown whereas I prefer to just win). Any thoughts on what to replace it with?
With tokens as a win-con, Aggravated Assault will help, too.
Aura Thief or Cleansing Meditation?
While Meditation requires less cards to go off, I feel like Aura Thief has less counter play and is therefore better. Thoughts?
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
Any thoughts on thief vs. meditation?
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
In other news, I think I am gonna stick with thief: meditation requires less cards and resources, however, if evening gets blown up or my grave wiped, it could potentially be far more fatal. There is less counterplay with thief.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
These are all interesting options, however, though you probably did not intend to, you reminded me of a different card that will both gain me life and draw cards (another issue I am having is card draw that isn't reliant on other cards) plus it is Tutor able with mystical Tutor (I generally like to make sure that all of my tutors, when possible, can find me both ramp and card draw): sphinx's revelation. So thanks for that! Not sure what I should remove. I was thinking null rod due to it being redundant. Still, rod is a great card. Any suggestions on cuts!
Treasure Trove is a good source of card draw, if a bit mana-intensive. But hey, you can always activate it just before your turn. Unifying Theory is another interesting choice, though it can benefit your opponents as well. Well of Ideas is a little expensive, but splashable. Fevered Visions punishes opponents for benefitting from mutual card draw enchantments.
The Hondens would be good considerations for your deck; if you can assemble all four available in your colors, you'll be creating four tokens, gaining 8 life, drawing four cards, and dealing 4 damage to target creature or player at the beginning of your upkeep.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.