So I started playing EDH just before Conspiracy 1 was released, and someone at my LGS suggested I should build Grenzo, Dungeon Warden as something off the beaten track. I have to admit, as one of the more unconventional legends so far, he screams to me as someone to build around. This is one of the first decks I've built, and it's a LOT of fun. It performs OK, but could do better. I'm never going to spend exorbitant amounts on this deck, but there are a couple of cards it definitely needs.
There are a few considerations building around Grenzo:
Grenzo is probably the only deck in the multiverse (thus far at least) that needs bottom-of-library manipulation. This means scry's, graveyard recursion, and couple of fairly specific artifacts.
His activated ability is something you can go one of two ways with - pump him up and play fatties for free, or keep him small and play weenies for free. I chose the former here, barring a few exclusions for value. This is probably the one part of the deck I'd like suggestions for - as it can take a little finagling to get creatures hitting the field cheap, they need to have high impact straight away.
Grenzo can make use of big colorless mana, at any time. This is probably the one place that this deck really suffers - I have some mana doublers, but I NEED Braid of Fire and maybe Heartstone.
And there it is. As you can see there is also a wheel effect inherent in the deck. I've found to some extent that Grenzo can make use of this with things like Reito Lantern and Jar of Eyeballs, whereas other decks are not quite as well equipped. The manabase is small. It runs less than I usually would use, as the less lands I hit the more hits the bottom of my library with Goblin Charbelcher and the more creatures I'm able to string together at once. It is a balance, and I'm not sure if it's right, but again I am open to suggestions.
The most successful builds I've seen don't rely on having huge fatty creatures, but value. That way even if Grenzo is a mere 2/2 played on Turn 2, they can get the majority of their creatures into play. Use creatures with */* or +1/+1 counters, because they're less than his P/T in the Graveyard but can come out to be pretty big.
Siege-Gang Commander seems like an auto-include to me. Always comes down, brings blockers and can Fling them for damage.
I already have Goblin tribal with Wort, Boggart Auntie so I won't really travel too far down that road. Besides Mana Echoes is a bit beyond my price range for now.
I agree value > fatty creatures. Siege-Gang Commander is a solid addition, as are the bracers. I need a copy of both.
I'm not necessarily going big dumb fatties, I'm just definitely not going tribal. I'm happy to consider smaller utility creatures as suggested.
I have a friend who runs an insane grenzo build. It's very fast and usually combos out around turn 5 to 6. teferi's puzzle box lets him load the bottom of his library.
I know there are a ton of goblins in there like goblin matron and goblin lackey that allow him do do some ridiculous Kiki jiki combos.
I know he runs champion's helm to fatten grenzo up and give him hexproof along with cloak and dagger for the same affect.
Yeah I've seen similar builds. The cloak and dagger are here for the same reason. I wish I had a spare Puzzle Box to add too, one of my favourite cards ever. Still, not interested in comboing out, or in goblin tribal though.
Grenzo is awesome! I already got some new ideas from your list (Charbelcher and Mindmoil).
I think your list is a bit too top heavy and has much too few lands. In my experience, all you really care about when it comes to the cards on TOP of the deck, is hitting a landdrop every single turn because mana is all you need with Grenzo. Heartstone should definitely be included as it works basically as a mana doubler for 3 with Grenzo. While I agree that you lose a lot of fun-value if you restrict yourself to two-or-less-power-creatures, my experience is that in a longer game everything with power 6 or hight can't be cheated in reliably. With your list I would look to cut some of the big "dumb" beaters (like e.g. Carnival Hellsteed and Chaos Imps) and replace them with more lands. I would definitely include Spinerock Knoll and Howltooth Hollow as the deck can reliably activate them and it's pretty good bottom of library manipulation.
My list has an artifact subtheme which lets me abuse Goblin Welder and Kuldotha Forgemaster. Two cards that shine particularly are Clone Shell and Summoner's Egg (which let's you cheat fatties onto the battlefield that got stranded in your hand).
Anyways, I hope this was helpful, check out my list if you like, it's linked in the sig
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Grenzo is awesome! I already got some new ideas from your list (Charbelcher and Mindmoil).
I think your list is a bit too top heavy and has much too few lands. In my experience, all you really care about when it comes to the cards on TOP of the deck, is hitting a landdrop every single turn because mana is all you need with Grenzo. Heartstone should definitely be included as it works basically as a mana doubler for 3 with Grenzo. While I agree that you lose a lot of fun-value if you restrict yourself to two-or-less-power-creatures, my experience is that in a longer game everything with power 6 or hight can't be cheated in reliably. With your list I would look to cut some of the big "dumb" beaters (like e.g. Carnival Hellsteed and Chaos Imps) and replace them with more lands. I would definitely include Spinerock Knoll and Howltooth Hollow as the deck can reliably activate them and it's pretty good bottom of library manipulation.
My list has an artifact subtheme which lets me abuse Goblin Welder and Kuldotha Forgemaster. Two cards that shine particularly are Clone Shell and Summoner's Egg (which let's you cheat fatties onto the battlefield that got stranded in your hand).
Anyways, I hope this was helpful, check out my list if you like, it's linked in the sig
I did check out the list and I liked it. Summoner's Egg is great tech, I'll have to look into that, I'm pretty sure I can track one down.
I agree, the x/x cards are iffy at best. Malignus is really a place keeper, until I have something that fits better. I'm liking the idea of an artifact subtheme, so Thopter engineer would be a good fit. The myrs, yeah I guess. If they're Grenzo'd they pay for themselves and that's cool. But they dont add a lot else other than a body on the ground. The rings I did have in here, but they work very slowly and there are quicker ways to bump his power if we're looking at equipment, especially in a junkyard artifact build (Cranial Plating, Cloak and Dagger).
If I did have a spare sad robot, he'd be in here. I've also been keeping eyes out for Junktroller for a while, and because he's so old and uncommon, I've not been able to track him down anywhere.
If I were to look at an artifact subtheme, what would we all think of Krark-Clan Ironworks? Either free or double grenzo activations, could be some serious gas.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
EDIT: In saying this, I'd almost rather set them up for another grenzo activation. Soldevi Digger and/or Epitaph Golem could be an addition to make there.
Firstly, the fatties are not set in stone. I'm happy to replace them for a card that sits better in the deck as a whole. Most of the unleash cards are pretty average, Exava isn't amazing, Nefarox could go, Spawn of Thraxes is fairly average, Hamletback doesn't have evasion of any kind, and so forth. A lot of the creatures in this deck could be improved, and that's really where I've needed the help, simply because I already run a goblin tribal with Wort, Boggart Auntie and don't want another one. The junkyard/Goblin Welder idea could work, and I'm happy to look at other options, I just don't see the point in having two goblin decks.
Secondly, rather than fill spots with reanimation, I'd rather make it easier to tuck creatures and use Grenzo to bring them back to life at instant speed.
Bonehoard is not a bad idea at all, especially considering there are a few wheel effects in the deck, but I definitely can't afford the Jitte.
Many Grenzo decks focus around a low curve of value creatures so you can cast Grenzo early and start grinding away. If you want to really do something off the beaten track you could focus more on the high end like the deck is currently configured. Some good creatures are:
If I did have a spare sad robot, he'd be in here. I've also been keeping eyes out for Junktroller for a while, and because he's so old and uncommon, I've not been able to track him down anywhere.
Thanks for the tips!
There are currently a couple on StarCity, a regular NM/M for $0.29 and a foil MP for $0.99.
You're welcome.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Many Grenzo decks focus around a low curve of value creatures so you can cast Grenzo early and start grinding away. If you want to really do something off the beaten track you could focus more on the high end like the deck is currently configured. Some good creatures are:
My only concern with bonehoard and nighthowler is that I'll be pulling creatures out of my GY, and there's no guarantee of other players having ample GYs. I'd probably more likely run the Bonehoard as it's harder to kill. The nighthowler is a creature, but as it's power is checked on ETB there's no guarantee Grenzo will cast it.
The hellkite is in here. Sheoldred is in Thrax and will probably stay there. I'm not likely to pick up another copy. The clique is a good idea though as is the Duplicant. I could have a dig for the titans, I may find them about somewhere.
I think you're misunderstanding a fundamental game mechanic.
When Grenzo uses his ability, a creature goes into the graveyard. If a creature's power and toughness is */*, then it is zero as the only time it has P/T is while it is on the board. Just as their P/T is 0 in your hand or library. In the 'yard, Nighthowler and Malignus P/T 0, meaning that they will always comes into play no matter what's Grenzo's P/T is.
Other creatures to consider are ones that come into play with +1/+1 counters, like Noosegraf Mob. They'll be 0 in your 'yard, meaning they'll always hit with Grenzo but when they Enter the Battlefield, the P/T is 5/5.
I think you're misunderstanding a fundamental game mechanic.
When Grenzo uses his ability, a creature goes into the graveyard. If a creature's power and toughness is */*, then it is zero as the only time it has P/T is while it is on the board. Just as their P/T is 0 in your hand or library. In the 'yard, Nighthowler and Malignus P/T 0, meaning that they will always comes into play no matter what's Grenzo's P/T is.
Other creatures to consider are ones that come into play with +1/+1 counters, like Noosegraf Mob. They'll be 0 in your 'yard, meaning they'll always hit with Grenzo but when they Enter the Battlefield, the P/T is 5/5.
Doomsday with grenzo out and two colorless wins the game with a pile (from bottom to top) of Workhorse, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Mad Auntie, any disruption creature if you like, and Zealous conscripts.
Worldgorger dragon is pretty good in grenzo too. It generates infinite mana and ETB triggers with Kiki-Jiki or any Necromancy like effect, which you can use to cast grenzo with x=10000 and put everything in your library onto the battlefield, giving you some game winning combo.
Also you could include Necrotic Ooze, Dread Return, Triskelion, and Phyrexian Devourer where you generate infinite mana (or use Buried Alive) and use Grenzo to get a necrotic ooze either into the graveyard (then flashback dread return) or battlefield and win.
Doomsday with grenzo out and two colorless wins the game with a pile (from bottom to top) of Workhorse, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Mad Auntie, any disruption creature if you like, and Zealous conscripts.
Worldgorger dragon is pretty good in grenzo too. It generates infinite mana and ETB triggers with Kiki-Jiki or any Necromancy like effect, which you can use to cast grenzo with x=10000 and put everything in your library onto the battlefield, giving you some game winning combo.
Also you could include Necrotic Ooze, Dread Return, Triskelion, and Phyrexian Devourer where you generate infinite mana (or use Buried Alive) and use Grenzo to get a necrotic ooze either into the graveyard (then flashback dread return) or battlefield and win.
Thanks for the suggestions, but that's not really what I'm trying to achieve. I'm really not the sort of person who enjoys 'insta-win' decks. As soon as I put a combo like those mentioned into the deck, all of the rest of the cards become a moot point, and I might as well replace with tutors or cards to set up said combo. And I can guarantee it will play out the same every time. Which is fine, if your goal is to win. My goal is to have fun, whether that includes winning or not. I try not to include tutors, and I try not to build combo decks.
Once again, thanks for the input but this is definitely not that deck.
Have to admit, when I first made this deck, that was the whole intention of putting */* cards in. I was wrong apparently. Which is fine, fatties of arbitrary size don't necessarily have a huge impact anyway.
What do we think of Shadows of the past? I'm thinking it would be pretty easy to trigger the scry, especially with things like Murderous Redcap, Visara the Dreadful, Dread, Goblin Welder in corner cases. And that's not counting other players saccing or combatting outside of my influence.
Also wondering whether it's worth replacing something like Asylum Visitor with Epitaph Golem. Obviously it will help grenzo activations, and the 'madness draw' is reasonably irrelevant when you're 'bottomdecking' anyway.
I'm still thinking of adding Krark-Clan Ironworks to the mix. I'm worried it could be too degenerate, but I'll give it a shot.
I will be updating the manabase too, and making some adjustments to number of lands, as it is low.
I now also have a maybelist to look for, none of which is too obscure - I'd be happy to have it critiqued before I spend on any of this stuff: Noxious Gearhulk Combustible Gearhulk Crystalline Crawler - Can activate Grenzo if needed. Myr Battlesphere - would be sickeningly good with the Ironworks, Welder and Daretti. Myr Sire - See above. Myr Retriever - I'm on the fence with these style of artifacts - on the one hand they'll hit the field with Grenzo no doubt, but on the other hand I'd prefer to use Grenzo's ability than cast things from hand. Nice to have redundancy though, so wouldn't be the worst idea. Solemn Simulacrum Bosh, Iron Golem - Something to do with all the scrap sitting around? Throw it at things. Wurmcoil Engine - I'm unsure about this one - yes, it's value, but neither the 6/6 or the 3/3's will attack all that favourably, but with recursion available this could be very good value. I hesitate simply on the grounds of price for value. Buried Ruin - for obvious reasons.
Shadowblood Ridge will be a good land to run, and Commander 2016's release should make picking one up relatively cheap (make that super cheap; StarCity has a stock of 22 for $1 apiece right now).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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There are a few considerations building around Grenzo:
Grenzo is probably the only deck in the multiverse (thus far at least) that needs bottom-of-library manipulation. This means scry's, graveyard recursion, and couple of fairly specific artifacts.
His activated ability is something you can go one of two ways with - pump him up and play fatties for free, or keep him small and play weenies for free. I chose the former here, barring a few exclusions for value. This is probably the one part of the deck I'd like suggestions for - as it can take a little finagling to get creatures hitting the field cheap, they need to have high impact straight away.
Grenzo can make use of big colorless mana, at any time. This is probably the one place that this deck really suffers - I have some mana doublers, but I NEED Braid of Fire and maybe Heartstone.
*Bottom of library manipulation
2 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
Artifacts (8)
1 Sol Ring
2 Reito Lantern (*)
2 Cloak and Dagger
2 Cranial Plating
3 Heartstone
3 Crystal Ball (*)
3 Jar of Eyeballs (*)
4 Goblin Charbelcher (*)
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
Sorceries (5)
3 Erratic Explosion (*)
5 Mana Geyser
5 Incendiary Command
5 Scrap Mastery
7 Behold the Beyond
Enchantments (1)
5 Mindmoil (*)
Creatures (47)
1 Goblin Welder
2 Asylum Visitor
2 Myr Retriever
3 Burnished Hart
3 Archetype of Aggression
3 Workshop Assistant
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Murderous Redcap
4 Ogre Battledriver
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Kulrath Knight
5 Magus of the Coffers
5 Epitaph Golem (*)
5 Master of Cruelties
5 Lightning Reaver
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
5 Hoarding Dragon
5 Zealous Conscripts
5 Mindclaw Shaman
6 Flameblade Angel
6 Flayer of the Hatebound
6 Mephidross Vampire
6 Scourge of the Throne
6 Sire of Insanity
6 Igneous Pouncer
6 Malfegor
6 Archetype of Finality
6 Visara the Dreadful
6 Necropolis Regent
6 Hellkite Charger
6 Reaper from the Abyss
7 Chancellor of the Forge
7 Dragon Mage
7 Tsabo Tavoc
7 Herald of Leshrac
7 Tyrant of Discord
7 Myr Battlesphere
8 Bloodfire Colossus
8 Bosh, Iron Golem
8 Avatar of Woe
8 Bogardan Hellkite
8 Akroma, Angel of Fury
8 Platinum Emperion
9 Spirit of the Night
10 Desolation Twin
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
Lands (39)
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Great Furnace
1 Mage-Ring Network
1 Opal Palace
1 Temple of the False God
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Command Tower
15 Swamp
14 Mountain
And there it is. As you can see there is also a wheel effect inherent in the deck. I've found to some extent that Grenzo can make use of this with things like Reito Lantern and Jar of Eyeballs, whereas other decks are not quite as well equipped. The manabase is small. It runs less than I usually would use, as the less lands I hit the more hits the bottom of my library with Goblin Charbelcher and the more creatures I'm able to string together at once. It is a balance, and I'm not sure if it's right, but again I am open to suggestions.
Let me know what you think!
The most successful builds I've seen don't rely on having huge fatty creatures, but value. That way even if Grenzo is a mere 2/2 played on Turn 2, they can get the majority of their creatures into play. Use creatures with */* or +1/+1 counters, because they're less than his P/T in the Graveyard but can come out to be pretty big.
Siege-Gang Commander seems like an auto-include to me. Always comes down, brings blockers and can Fling them for damage.
I think you can benefit from a lot more ramp, in mana rock form. Rakdos Signet, Talisman of Indulgence, etc.
Also, if you go with a Goblin Tribal route, Mana Echoes gets very, very stupid.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I agree value > fatty creatures. Siege-Gang Commander is a solid addition, as are the bracers. I need a copy of both.
I'm not necessarily going big dumb fatties, I'm just definitely not going tribal. I'm happy to consider smaller utility creatures as suggested.
Yeah I've seen similar builds. The cloak and dagger are here for the same reason. I wish I had a spare Puzzle Box to add too, one of my favourite cards ever. Still, not interested in comboing out, or in goblin tribal though.
I think your list is a bit too top heavy and has much too few lands. In my experience, all you really care about when it comes to the cards on TOP of the deck, is hitting a landdrop every single turn because mana is all you need with Grenzo.
Heartstone should definitely be included as it works basically as a mana doubler for 3 with Grenzo. While I agree that you lose a lot of fun-value if you restrict yourself to two-or-less-power-creatures, my experience is that in a longer game everything with power 6 or hight can't be cheated in reliably. With your list I would look to cut some of the big "dumb" beaters (like e.g. Carnival Hellsteed and Chaos Imps) and replace them with more lands. I would definitely include Spinerock Knoll and Howltooth Hollow as the deck can reliably activate them and it's pretty good bottom of library manipulation.
My list has an artifact subtheme which lets me abuse Goblin Welder and Kuldotha Forgemaster. Two cards that shine particularly are Clone Shell and Summoner's Egg (which let's you cheat fatties onto the battlefield that got stranded in your hand).
Anyways, I hope this was helpful, check out my list if you like, it's linked in the sig
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Recommendations:
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I did check out the list and I liked it. Summoner's Egg is great tech, I'll have to look into that, I'm pretty sure I can track one down.
I've got a spare Goblin welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant so it would be easy enough to build an artifact subtheme into the deck. I'd love another Heartstone but it's doing duty in Olivia Voldaren, where it is MUCH more needed.
Can't believe I didn't think of Tree of Perdition.
And I like the land additions too. I could definitely track those down.
Thanks for the tips. Watch this space.
I agree, the x/x cards are iffy at best. Malignus is really a place keeper, until I have something that fits better. I'm liking the idea of an artifact subtheme, so Thopter engineer would be a good fit. The myrs, yeah I guess. If they're Grenzo'd they pay for themselves and that's cool. But they dont add a lot else other than a body on the ground. The rings I did have in here, but they work very slowly and there are quicker ways to bump his power if we're looking at equipment, especially in a junkyard artifact build (Cranial Plating, Cloak and Dagger).
If I did have a spare sad robot, he'd be in here. I've also been keeping eyes out for Junktroller for a while, and because he's so old and uncommon, I've not been able to track him down anywhere.
If I were to look at an artifact subtheme, what would we all think of Krark-Clan Ironworks? Either free or double grenzo activations, could be some serious gas.
Thanks for the tips!
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
EDIT: In saying this, I'd almost rather set them up for another grenzo activation. Soldevi Digger and/or Epitaph Golem could be an addition to make there.
I guess there's two points there.
Firstly, the fatties are not set in stone. I'm happy to replace them for a card that sits better in the deck as a whole. Most of the unleash cards are pretty average, Exava isn't amazing, Nefarox could go, Spawn of Thraxes is fairly average, Hamletback doesn't have evasion of any kind, and so forth. A lot of the creatures in this deck could be improved, and that's really where I've needed the help, simply because I already run a goblin tribal with Wort, Boggart Auntie and don't want another one. The junkyard/Goblin Welder idea could work, and I'm happy to look at other options, I just don't see the point in having two goblin decks.
Secondly, rather than fill spots with reanimation, I'd rather make it easier to tuck creatures and use Grenzo to bring them back to life at instant speed.
Bonehoard is not a bad idea at all, especially considering there are a few wheel effects in the deck, but I definitely can't afford the Jitte.
Many Grenzo decks focus around a low curve of value creatures so you can cast Grenzo early and start grinding away. If you want to really do something off the beaten track you could focus more on the high end like the deck is currently configured. Some good creatures are:
There are currently a couple on StarCity, a regular NM/M for $0.29 and a foil MP for $0.99.
You're welcome.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
My only concern with bonehoard and nighthowler is that I'll be pulling creatures out of my GY, and there's no guarantee of other players having ample GYs. I'd probably more likely run the Bonehoard as it's harder to kill. The nighthowler is a creature, but as it's power is checked on ETB there's no guarantee Grenzo will cast it.
The hellkite is in here. Sheoldred is in Thrax and will probably stay there. I'm not likely to pick up another copy. The clique is a good idea though as is the Duplicant. I could have a dig for the titans, I may find them about somewhere.
Thanks for the tips so far guys.
When Grenzo uses his ability, a creature goes into the graveyard. If a creature's power and toughness is */*, then it is zero as the only time it has P/T is while it is on the board. Just as their P/T is 0 in your hand or library. In the 'yard, Nighthowler and Malignus P/T 0, meaning that they will always comes into play no matter what's Grenzo's P/T is.
Other creatures to consider are ones that come into play with +1/+1 counters, like Noosegraf Mob. They'll be 0 in your 'yard, meaning they'll always hit with Grenzo but when they Enter the Battlefield, the P/T is 5/5.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
That's unfortunately not true: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/478181-what-is-a-creatures-power-toughness-in-other-zones
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Worldgorger dragon is pretty good in grenzo too. It generates infinite mana and ETB triggers with Kiki-Jiki or any Necromancy like effect, which you can use to cast grenzo with x=10000 and put everything in your library onto the battlefield, giving you some game winning combo.
Also you could include Necrotic Ooze, Dread Return, Triskelion, and Phyrexian Devourer where you generate infinite mana (or use Buried Alive) and use Grenzo to get a necrotic ooze either into the graveyard (then flashback dread return) or battlefield and win.
(On phone so sorry for no card links)
Thanks for the suggestions, but that's not really what I'm trying to achieve. I'm really not the sort of person who enjoys 'insta-win' decks. As soon as I put a combo like those mentioned into the deck, all of the rest of the cards become a moot point, and I might as well replace with tutors or cards to set up said combo. And I can guarantee it will play out the same every time. Which is fine, if your goal is to win. My goal is to have fun, whether that includes winning or not. I try not to include tutors, and I try not to build combo decks.
Once again, thanks for the input but this is definitely not that deck.
Have to admit, when I first made this deck, that was the whole intention of putting */* cards in. I was wrong apparently. Which is fine, fatties of arbitrary size don't necessarily have a huge impact anyway.
Also wondering whether it's worth replacing something like Asylum Visitor with Epitaph Golem. Obviously it will help grenzo activations, and the 'madness draw' is reasonably irrelevant when you're 'bottomdecking' anyway.
In:
Goblin Welder
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Epitaph Golem - I chose this over obtaining Junktroller because it doesn't tap to activate. It's 1 more to cast, but I'd still prefer to be able to activate Grenzo multiple times.
Out:
Cryptborn Horror - As discussed, */* creatures are no good to me.
Malignus
Worn Powerstone - Slow mana.
I'm still thinking of adding Krark-Clan Ironworks to the mix. I'm worried it could be too degenerate, but I'll give it a shot.
I will be updating the manabase too, and making some adjustments to number of lands, as it is low.
I now also have a maybelist to look for, none of which is too obscure - I'd be happy to have it critiqued before I spend on any of this stuff:
Noxious Gearhulk
Combustible Gearhulk
Crystalline Crawler - Can activate Grenzo if needed.
Myr Battlesphere - would be sickeningly good with the Ironworks, Welder and Daretti.
Myr Sire - See above.
Myr Retriever - I'm on the fence with these style of artifacts - on the one hand they'll hit the field with Grenzo no doubt, but on the other hand I'd prefer to use Grenzo's ability than cast things from hand. Nice to have redundancy though, so wouldn't be the worst idea.
Solemn Simulacrum
Bosh, Iron Golem - Something to do with all the scrap sitting around? Throw it at things.
Wurmcoil Engine - I'm unsure about this one - yes, it's value, but neither the 6/6 or the 3/3's will attack all that favourably, but with recursion available this could be very good value. I hesitate simply on the grounds of price for value.
Buried Ruin - for obvious reasons.
Heading in this direction makes me wonder if it's also worth adding things like Scrap Mastery and Trash for Treasure too. Maybe also Liquimetal Coating and Cranial Plating.
Things likely to go:
Cairn Wanderer - not great value
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - needs to be built around.
Chaos Imps
Carnival Hellsteed
Mephidross Vampire
Spawn of Thraxes
Deathbringer Regent
Hamletback Goliath
Spirit of the Night
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.