Play testing and casual games between classes have shown academy ruins is just awesome. Opponents cannot deal with it. They work so hard to destroy it only to have it come back. Other recursion is nice, like the sword. I use the spell recursion more for tutors and plainswalkers.
That's been my tendency as well. I don't know really see a need to expand on the recursion package I've been running just yet. Though I think once people start to realize what pieces are crucial to the lock that may have to change.
Mana crypt hasn't been great. The deck needs colored mana a lot more than colorless so dropping it has actually made it more consistent from what I've seen.
Cornucopia has been phenomenal for me. If I was to add lantern I would probably drop Mana Bloom first, especially now that I'm running crawler.
I'm thinking that will be the card to go once I get my hands on a copy of JTMS. He seems like a solid addition, espceially after I add in some fetches.
I've been switching back and forth between Static Orb and Embargo. I'm still not sure which one I'll end up going with. Static Orb is great for dealing with fast ramping, while Embargo deals with aggro much better than Static Orb does, so I guess it may end up just being a meta dependent flex slot. They both are awesome, just better at dealing with different situations.
It's got some pretty strict color requirements and is relatively expensive for what it would be used for most often. I'm thinking of adding natural state as well as another way to deal with stuff like stony silence, aura of silence and null rod.
I seem to never have color issues. I have all the shocks, fetches, many checks, pains, and filters.
Multi use is huge for me and I need options, as kataki is just brutal.
I'm still working on the mana base for mine since it's a little tough sometimes. I haven't run into any lists running kataki, though I feel like there's enough removal in my list to deal with it if it ever became prominent in my meta.
Astral Cornucopia allows us to ramp with only Atraxa out. So far it has been great for me-opponent's have started targeting it.
As far as Academy Ruins is concerned, does no one run grave hate? Honestly, a single Withered Wretch means that you are stuck with a colorless land. I have a better mana base than you and I still don't plan on running it. Academy Ruins is also super slow. Keep in mind too Wraith, that you said you are running Superfriends, an archetype which can't keep up at the most competitive levels. My assumption is that your meta is a bit slower (thus your success with Superfiends), which makes Academy Ruins much better.
@Joseph: I would have a hard time dropping Mana Crypt. Yes you need a lot of colored mana, but you want a lot of colorless as well. Plus the drawback is mitigated by Atraxa.
Static Orb is better than Embargo if just because it comes down a turn earlier.
Of the cards that you might want to reconsider, Vraska always stands out to me in your list. She has one useful ability and it is a minus ability. Even her ult (if you manage to get it) is pretty meh for this deck. I would open that slow up for something else.
Once you get a hold of more fetches, really consider adding Deathrite Shaman. He is a beast.
We do need lots of colorless, but getting Atraxa early is pretty crucial to winning. Dropping mana crypt seems like it's a good decision in order to increase our chances of hitting some color ramp.
I know you're not a fan of Vraska lol she's actually been pretty decent for me though so I'm just gonna hang on to her until she really disappoints.
Ya I love deathrite and the added grave hate will be a strong addition to the deck.
- Are you keeping this discussion's list up to date with your Tapped Out list (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/atraxa-stax-2/)?
- Any plans to draft a no-budget/eventual list w/ JTMS and any other cards that you plan to include but haven't acquired yet? I randomly traded up to a JTMS a few years back, so I'll be able to include that from the get-go. It'd be interesting to see what may currently be off the written-up list just because you don't have a copy (yet).
Thanks for sharing your list and providing the write-up!
Kaya, Ghost Assassin is going to be strictly better than Dovin Baan most times, and I would just remove Elspeth unless you really want that 1/1 every turn.
Don't play planewalkers for their ultimates.
You're running crucible and strip mine, but no Ghost Quarter?
Have you considered Chronatog for the stasis lock/mill win?
-Yes I am doing my best to try and keep both lists up to date.
-I actually added a section towards the end of the write up detailing what cards I'd like to have in this list that aren't due to budget. Nether Void, Ravages of War, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, etc. For JTMS I'd probably drop Worldly Tutor, I think his effect overall is just much better.
Did you actually read the OP? Grim is not in the list due to budget same with Nether Void.
Elspeth is there to provide Atraxa a buff to put our opponents on a much shorter clock and she provides fodder for smokestack.
I'm personally not a huge fan of Kaya since she really doesn't do a whole lot. Dovin can shut down a creature if I don't have totem out, draws me cards if needed, and creates a one-sided static orb.
Strip mine doesn't give our opponent a land and I was trying to keep the amount of colorless lands as low as possible.
I've been winning just fine without chronatog so I don't think it warrants inclusion. Seems like more of a pain to assemble than anything.
Derevi is there to either break parity or tap our opponents down. Treasured Find is there to recur tutors or destroyed lock pieces. Mana Bloom and Pentad Prism both let us keep a stasis lock up indefinitely with Atraxa. The charge lands are in the deck due to budget at the moment.
I already have Torpor Orb which is easier to tutor for than Hushwing. I've considered Wargate but not sure what to pull for it. Once again I have an artifact that does the same thing. Carpet would be nice if there were more blue mages in my meta because I would absolutely replace mana bloom with it. Nether Void is my dream enchantment, unfortunately I can't justify dropping $300 on a card. Arcane Denial is easier to cast than counterspell. Swan Song is in the deck. Colorless land. One of the deck's main win conditions is commander damage so Chasm wouldn't really make sense in this deck.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin is going to be strictly better than Dovin Baan most times, and I would just remove Elspeth unless you really want that 1/1 every turn.
Don't play planewalkers for their ultimates.
You're running crucible and strip mine, but no Ghost Quarter?
Have you considered Chronatog for the stasis lock/mill win?
Yea Grim Tutor is just hyper expensive. I mean you might as well say "use Imperial Seal."
Kaya?? Really? Her -2 is good but otherwise she is pretty pointless. Dovin can nix a creature for a turn or better yet, he can shut down someone like Arcum. Infinitely better. Elspeth on the other hand makes Atraxa a 3 turn clock or puts down fodder for chumping or Smokestack.
Ghost Quarter...again, this sort of suggestion really makes me question your legitimacy. The next obvious choice would be Wasteland. The only reason to not play it is because the deck is so colored mana hungry.
Chronatog is great in 1v1, however, we have to deal with multiple opponents meaning decking people is not a good strategy. Death via planeswalker/Atraxa is far more efficient.
Have you ever heard of Derevi stax? The card is ridiculous with mana denial. Bloom/Prism are to combo with Stasis/Atraxa. The lands are yea...they are garbage.
Gryff is redundant (Topor Orb is there) so that is a meta call. Wargate can be ultra slow which stax does not want. Rising Waters again is a bit redundant. Carpet is entirely meta dependent. Nether Void is great but can be played around. It is also ultra expensive. I thought Counterspell and Swan Song were in there? Ancient Tomb suffers from the same issue as Mana Crypt. Chasm shouldn't be necessary as Atraxa gains life/locking people down does a good job of avoiding damage.
Graveyard hate is everywhere, but it does not mean we should not try. It's a hundred cards to get that hate. I like our odds. My opponent blows up at least one artifact and this recursion is great for when I have nothing else to do. My draws are not necessarily dead.
I tried running super friends, and I got run over by creature decks. This is lock/superfriends for a better chance to stabilize. I don't care If you have a better mana base than I. I play this for fun and the challenge of mind. We don't need your aggression here. There are other threads and forums to harass. Slight differences in builds is my meta and keeps me original to a slight degree. Joseph has done great work and I am here to offer suggestions and reports in a friendly manner. Post a list for us to see or.....by by please.
Thanks damnosus, your deck is good. After getting engaged, my fiancée has shown that I am the authority over nothing. Which is the right way to be anyway.
I thought about noble higherarch but I need that black mana.
Top is not banned? I thought it was...not banned in pods?
Thoughts on dark confidant? It hurts bad in lock down early game. Deathrite shaman replace it?
I pulled Fellwar Stone for a land. One more land is better that a stone that is situational.
I am on the fence regarding Revelation. On the one hand, if I can cast it, it is great. However, our mana denial restricts us as well so... I almost want to run Ad Nauseum, but I don't know if that would be too painful...
Noble Hierarch is still a boss as it covers 75% of our mana needs, plus it pumps atraxa (we are most often going to be attacking with only her.
Top is very much not banned. Love that card.
Confidant is great if you can keep your average cmc low (plus Top/Library are a must). Since we run a fair number of walkers I am not sure how good it is. If you run Uba Mask like Joseph was originally then that is another reason to consider him.
I dropped root maze and cursed Totum for top and deathrite Shamon. Graveyard hate plus life gain and mana ramp is to cool to pass up. I can keep dark confidant now. Need to sqeeeze in deed somewhere.
Cursed Totem was a meta decision so that makes sense. Root Maze on the other is pretty crucial to the stasis lock, without it there's a chance your opponents can recover from the lock or at least remove stasis. Not worth pulling IMO. Deathrite is definitely a good add, such a versatile card. Top might be worth it once I upgrade the mana base a bit. I'm not super happy with it right now, but to the money side of things it may be a little while before I get all the fetches. I pulled Eviction for Deed, so far so good on that end.
I can try to add root maze again, but the other orb was doing that anyway. Will pull something else I guess. Top is amazing at getting what need I without taking damage. It should go into every deck.
I double sleeved the deck. Now it fits nowhere in my legion double deck boxes. O_O
Top is a lot less useful without the shuffle effect provided by fetches which is why I'm currently not running. Ialso don't think it's particularly useful in the list since adding would require dropping something that likely adds more to the deck than top.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Cornucopia has been phenomenal for me. If I was to add lantern I would probably drop Mana Bloom first, especially now that I'm running crawler.
I'm thinking that will be the card to go once I get my hands on a copy of JTMS. He seems like a solid addition, espceially after I add in some fetches.
I've been switching back and forth between Static Orb and Embargo. I'm still not sure which one I'll end up going with. Static Orb is great for dealing with fast ramping, while Embargo deals with aggro much better than Static Orb does, so I guess it may end up just being a meta dependent flex slot. They both are awesome, just better at dealing with different situations.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Multi use is huge for me and I need options, as kataki is just brutal.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
As far as Academy Ruins is concerned, does no one run grave hate? Honestly, a single Withered Wretch means that you are stuck with a colorless land. I have a better mana base than you and I still don't plan on running it. Academy Ruins is also super slow. Keep in mind too Wraith, that you said you are running Superfriends, an archetype which can't keep up at the most competitive levels. My assumption is that your meta is a bit slower (thus your success with Superfiends), which makes Academy Ruins much better.
@Joseph: I would have a hard time dropping Mana Crypt. Yes you need a lot of colored mana, but you want a lot of colorless as well. Plus the drawback is mitigated by Atraxa.
Static Orb is better than Embargo if just because it comes down a turn earlier.
Of the cards that you might want to reconsider, Vraska always stands out to me in your list. She has one useful ability and it is a minus ability. Even her ult (if you manage to get it) is pretty meh for this deck. I would open that slow up for something else.
Once you get a hold of more fetches, really consider adding Deathrite Shaman. He is a beast.
I know you're not a fan of Vraska lol she's actually been pretty decent for me though so I'm just gonna hang on to her until she really disappoints.
Ya I love deathrite and the added grave hate will be a strong addition to the deck.
- Are you keeping this discussion's list up to date with your Tapped Out list (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/atraxa-stax-2/)?
- Any plans to draft a no-budget/eventual list w/ JTMS and any other cards that you plan to include but haven't acquired yet? I randomly traded up to a JTMS a few years back, so I'll be able to include that from the get-go. It'd be interesting to see what may currently be off the written-up list just because you don't have a copy (yet).
Thanks for sharing your list and providing the write-up!
Grim tutor is a better Cruel Tutor.
Dovin Baan and Elspeth, Knight-Errant both don't seem to do enough.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin is going to be strictly better than Dovin Baan most times, and I would just remove Elspeth unless you really want that 1/1 every turn.
Don't play planewalkers for their ultimates.
You're running crucible and strip mine, but no Ghost Quarter?
Have you considered Chronatog for the stasis lock/mill win?
Here are the other cards in your deck I think are weak options, but I may be missing some interaction.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Treasured Find, Mana Bloom, Pentad Prism, all of the garbage charge counter lands that are useless without your commander, i.e Tendo Ice Bridge and Aether Hub
Some goodstuff:
Hushwing Gryff, Wargate, Rising Waters, Carpet of Flowers, Nether Void, Counterspell, Swan Song, Ancient Tomb, Glacial Chasm (extra points for being fetchable with wargate and protecting you with chronatog)
-I actually added a section towards the end of the write up detailing what cards I'd like to have in this list that aren't due to budget. Nether Void, Ravages of War, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, etc. For JTMS I'd probably drop Worldly Tutor, I think his effect overall is just much better.
Elspeth is there to provide Atraxa a buff to put our opponents on a much shorter clock and she provides fodder for smokestack.
I'm personally not a huge fan of Kaya since she really doesn't do a whole lot. Dovin can shut down a creature if I don't have totem out, draws me cards if needed, and creates a one-sided static orb.
Strip mine doesn't give our opponent a land and I was trying to keep the amount of colorless lands as low as possible.
I've been winning just fine without chronatog so I don't think it warrants inclusion. Seems like more of a pain to assemble than anything.
Derevi is there to either break parity or tap our opponents down. Treasured Find is there to recur tutors or destroyed lock pieces. Mana Bloom and Pentad Prism both let us keep a stasis lock up indefinitely with Atraxa. The charge lands are in the deck due to budget at the moment.
I already have Torpor Orb which is easier to tutor for than Hushwing. I've considered Wargate but not sure what to pull for it. Once again I have an artifact that does the same thing. Carpet would be nice if there were more blue mages in my meta because I would absolutely replace mana bloom with it. Nether Void is my dream enchantment, unfortunately I can't justify dropping $300 on a card. Arcane Denial is easier to cast than counterspell. Swan Song is in the deck. Colorless land. One of the deck's main win conditions is commander damage so Chasm wouldn't really make sense in this deck.
Yea Grim Tutor is just hyper expensive. I mean you might as well say "use Imperial Seal."
Kaya?? Really? Her -2 is good but otherwise she is pretty pointless. Dovin can nix a creature for a turn or better yet, he can shut down someone like Arcum. Infinitely better. Elspeth on the other hand makes Atraxa a 3 turn clock or puts down fodder for chumping or Smokestack.
Ghost Quarter...again, this sort of suggestion really makes me question your legitimacy. The next obvious choice would be Wasteland. The only reason to not play it is because the deck is so colored mana hungry.
Chronatog is great in 1v1, however, we have to deal with multiple opponents meaning decking people is not a good strategy. Death via planeswalker/Atraxa is far more efficient.
Have you ever heard of Derevi stax? The card is ridiculous with mana denial. Bloom/Prism are to combo with Stasis/Atraxa. The lands are yea...they are garbage.
Gryff is redundant (Topor Orb is there) so that is a meta call. Wargate can be ultra slow which stax does not want. Rising Waters again is a bit redundant. Carpet is entirely meta dependent. Nether Void is great but can be played around. It is also ultra expensive. I thought Counterspell and Swan Song were in there? Ancient Tomb suffers from the same issue as Mana Crypt. Chasm shouldn't be necessary as Atraxa gains life/locking people down does a good job of avoiding damage.
Cards over a $150 are an issue.
Kaya is mehhhhh to me. A token generator plus atraxa buff has more synergy. Elspeth =b
Deatheite shaman is a good idea. What do we drop?
Mana crypt should not be dropped.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I tried running super friends, and I got run over by creature decks. This is lock/superfriends for a better chance to stabilize. I don't care If you have a better mana base than I. I play this for fun and the challenge of mind. We don't need your aggression here. There are other threads and forums to harass. Slight differences in builds is my meta and keeps me original to a slight degree. Joseph has done great work and I am here to offer suggestions and reports in a friendly manner. Post a list for us to see or.....by by please.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
As far as my list here is a mockup-I haven't updated it in a bit so there are a few cards that were from previous iterations:
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
//Creatures
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Bloom Tender
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Notion Thief
1 Scavenging Ooze
//Instants
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Arcane Denial
1 Beast Within
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Force of Will
1 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
//Soceries
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Farseek
1 Regrowth
1 Rout
1 Three Visits
1 Time Spiral
1 Toxic Deluge
//Enchantments
1 Aura of Silence
1 Bitterblossom
1 Doubling Season
1 Exploration
1 Humility
1 Necropotence
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Rhystic Study
1 Stasis
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Venser, the Sojourner
//Artifacts
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Orb of Dreams
1 Pentad Prism
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Static Orb
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Tangle Wire
1 Torpor Orb
1 Winter Orb
//Lands
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Island
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
I thought about noble higherarch but I need that black mana.
Top is not banned? I thought it was...not banned in pods?
Thoughts on dark confidant? It hurts bad in lock down early game. Deathrite shaman replace it?
I pulled Fellwar Stone for a land. One more land is better that a stone that is situational.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Noble Hierarch is still a boss as it covers 75% of our mana needs, plus it pumps atraxa (we are most often going to be attacking with only her.
Top is very much not banned. Love that card.
Confidant is great if you can keep your average cmc low (plus Top/Library are a must). Since we run a fair number of walkers I am not sure how good it is. If you run Uba Mask like Joseph was originally then that is another reason to consider him.
Comfidant is great! The extra card is super helpful plis Atraxa greatly mitigates the downside of the card. I miss Uba Mask
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I double sleeved the deck. Now it fits nowhere in my legion double deck boxes. O_O
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!