Minor edit. Exploration wasn't doing much for me in the first couple games I saw it and I want to find some space for Training Grounds. If it turns out I end up with a grip full of lands to rush out more often than I'm expecting, I'll revisit this.
Undercurrents is a little bit of a sad cut, but this deck really doesn't have the creature density to support it. Zendikar Resurgent was really here as a mana doubler and I think the additions should make up for lost mana in the short term. Mana rocks to sorceries doesn't seem like a great leap. I would rather have the earlier plays and the late game synergy with the win cons trumps the possibility of Silas Renn rebuying a rock.
This is mostly playing around with cards I want to try out and pushing the flash theme. For cuts, Dissipate is a little less necessary with Drain and Capture. Lich isn't well supported in terms of colors. Kruphix is mostly goodstuff.
If something seems like an obvious inclusion and is missing, there's a chance I'm just not interested in playing it. This includes such auto-includes as Sol Ring, Demonic Tutor, and Cyclonic Rift. Feel free to comment on the lack of those, just be aware that they're deliberate omissions.
Updated this list further. I've gone a little more reactive and cut mana rocks for ramp spells. Havengul Lich and Bring to Light are kind of awkward without those, so I'll see how it goes. I'm not yet sure if I want to support that theme a little harder or if I want to cut it entirely. I also have an Alchemist's Refuge for this, but I don't know where I want to make cuts. A basic seems like the obvious answer, but I haven't looked at my color requirements as the deck stands now. Leovold, Emissary of Trest and Nissa, Vital Force are other likely inclusions. I'd also still like to shave a couple of the expensive cards down. The curve is still a little higher than I would like despite the number of cards CMC <= 3.
Cutting early ramp and fixing for late game cards that are primarily relevant with the general out seems like a poor choice. The card advantage/selection in the deck alreadys helps to find a reasonable late game plan and mitigates the drawback of small ramp cards. Nature's Will is a long shot for a deck with a handful of early creatures, too. Training Grounds is likely to show up at some point because it curves into Thrasios and makes his ability cost effective enough to put some mana into early. He otherwise makes a reasonable mana sink or desperation dig, but his ability isn't the primary plan. Props for suggesting cuts even if I don't agree with them. Not enough people do that in their decklist feedback.
Skullclamp with everything -- but might be a card you've left out on purpose
Bitterblossom is a possibility, but it's on the back of its strength as an early defensive piece/grindy wincon and not its interaction with Undercurrents. While it's not a bad interaction, it wouldn't be worth including on that alone. Already good inexpensive card that shores up one point where I would like a little more support could be good enough though. Skullclamp is omitted because it's not good here. It's basically only good with Ophiomancer and kind of Snapcaster. Oona, Fable, Sprout Swarm, and Summonings are the only other potential sources of x/1s and those are unlikely to come out before I'm actively attempting to kill people.
I looked at it. It's a solid looking deck, but it doesn't fit with what I'm trying to do here. I'm not building a token deck. I'm building a control deck with tokens as a potential win condition. All of the token producers here are either instant speed mana sinks or trigger through the course of normal gameplay, typically for the possibility of multiple tokens in a turn. If it doesn't help turn the corner over the course of 1-2 turns, it has to be helping me get to the point where I'm trying to do that.
Sorry if it seems like I'm dismissing your ideas out of hand. The deck is rough, but the card choices are all made deliberately and it's heavily influenced by my usual take on Dralnu, Lich Lord, who I've been playing off and on for many years. I have a pretty good idea of what I like in my UBx controlling lists. I'm also quick to admit that building effectively no budget lists with artificial constraints on what I'm interested in running is a little bit of a departure from how most decks in this format get built and is difficult to make suggestions for.
Your signature has reminded me that Kaho, Minamo Historian could be a fun card here (though I'm already apprehensive about my curve) and is on theme. I think I'm going to try her out for at least a game or two. I may also revisit some of the wizard tribal elements that are present in your thread, seeing as there's already some support for that here. You did also remind me that I need to pick up a Nature's Will for my box, even if I'm not planning on using it here.
Cutting early ramp and fixing for late game cards that are primarily relevant with the general out seems like a poor choice. The card advantage/selection in the deck alreadys helps to find a reasonable late game plan and mitigates the drawback of small ramp cards. Nature's Will is a long shot for a deck with a handful of early creatures, too. Training Grounds is likely to show up at some point because it curves into Thrasios and makes his ability cost effective enough to put some mana into early. He otherwise makes a reasonable mana sink or desperation dig, but his ability isn't the primary plan. Props for suggesting cuts even if I don't agree with them. Not enough people do that in their decklist feedback.
Skullclamp with everything -- but might be a card you've left out on purpose
Bitterblossom is a possibility, but it's on the back of its strength as an early defensive piece/grindy wincon and not its interaction with Undercurrents. While it's not a bad interaction, it wouldn't be worth including on that alone. Already good inexpensive card that shores up one point where I would like a little more support could be good enough though. Skullclamp is omitted because it's not good here. It's basically only good with Ophiomancer and kind of Snapcaster. Oona, Fable, Sprout Swarm, and Summonings are the only other potential sources of x/1s and those are unlikely to come out before I'm actively attempting to kill people.
Sorry if it seems like I'm dismissing your ideas out of hand. The deck is rough, but the card choices are all made deliberately and it's heavily influenced by my usual take on Dralnu, Lich Lord, who I've been playing off and on for many years. I have a pretty good idea of what I like in my UBx controlling lists. I'm also quick to admit that building effectively no budget lists with artificial constraints on what I'm interested in running is a little bit of a departure from how most decks in this format get built and is difficult to make suggestions for.
Not at all. You know what direction you want to take. Just up to people to suggest ideass, and let the original posters take on suggestions or not. Otherwise all we are doing is making decks for people
Not at all. You know what direction you want to take. Just up to people to suggest ideass, and let the original posters take on suggestions or not. Otherwise all we are doing is making decks for people
Yeah. Some people just get a little touchy about it when most or all of their suggestions get shot down, especially when the thread is relatively new, and I do appreciate anyone who takes the time to look and give feedback. It looks like you're putting together a solid deck, it's just not the same deck that I'm after.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I understand that he's the only UB legend with partner, but Silas Renn is pretty nearly Daggerback Basilisk in this deck. Any of the other black partners would let you play UB control + Thrasios; you're not obliged to actually run any cards of the fourth color. Alternatively, you could add just a few cards from the fourth color. Sphinx's Revelation, for example, looks great here and Anguished Unmaking pretty cleanly upgrades Go for the Throat. Formally adding a fourth color would also give you access to some hybrid mana cards that otherwise wouldn't be allowed (not that I can think of any off-hand that you'd actually want to run). Also, as a control deck I think you'll want Myriad Landscape and Blighted Woodland in the mana base even though you're in green. They're nothing flashy, but they're lands that help you get to the midgame sooner. Finally, do you have enough top-of-library manipulation for Predict?
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
So let's break down the other black partners. Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - Not good here. There are only a handful of creatures that could take advantage of the counters and no other sources for them. Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper - Roughly as useful as Silas. Better blocker and potentially offers lifegain, but is unlikely to ever kill something and is less useful as a rattlesnake. Vial Smasher the Fierce - Some synergy with the instant speed themes, but 20 of the nonlands are CMC <= 2 and 35 are CMC <= 3. I'm also more likely to play small spells first, especially cantrips, because it gives me more options. Tymna the Weaver - I'm not attacking much until I'm actually trying to kill people. Tymna offers card draw at the point in the game where I need it the least. Ravos, Soultender - 15 creatures, most of which are not coming down early. He's not helpful at the point in the game where I'd want him.
For the 3 options that push me into 4C, there are two additional problems. First, I don't want this to be a 4C deck and that's enough to eliminate them from the running. The second goes back to my comments on Vial Smasher. This deck is loaded with low CMC cards, which means the color requirements are high. There's a reason there are only 4 colorless lands in the list right now (5 once I add Alchemist's Refuge) despite the fetch/dual manabase. If I add a fourth color, I'm making the manabase weaker even if I'm not planning on adding anything beyond the general. I'm also conceding that I'm not seeing that color early (splashing) and I'm losing either utility lands or basics to do it. Silas doesn't offer a lot and is unlikely to be cast often. Despite that, he's the best fit for the niche I'm trying to fill. A Daggerback Basilisk that expands my color identity to what I want isn't exciting but it beats the other available choices.
Myriad Landscape and Blighted Woodland both got passed over for color reasons. I'm trying to minimize colorless sources in the early game. Landscape has the additional downside of CIPT, which I always try to keep to a minimum. Good cards, I'm just a little more conscious of color requirements here than in some decks. I'm more likely to try and find space for City of Brass or Mana Confluence than add more colorless sources right now, especially if I ditch the large mana rocks for smaller ramp spells like I'm considering.
Predict is a little bit of a pet card that's worked out well so far. I've aimed it at opponents more often than myself and hit 3/3 times so far. Topdeck tutors, Oracle of Mul Daya, Courser of Kruphix, and Future Sight (looking to find space for this too) are all pretty common cards in this format. It may not be the most effective card for the slot, but it's good enough and I'm having fun casting it, so it's going to stick around for the time being.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Why not just play Tasigur, the Golden Fang as the commander? His and Thrasios abilities are fairly similiar, both have almost same cmc (1 vs 2 cmc) and Silas isn't doing much.
1 Thrasios, Triton Hero
1 Silas Renn, Seeker Adept
//Creatures
1 Baleful Strix
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Dark Confidant
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Kaho, Minamo Historian
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Ophiomancer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
//Artifacts
1 Expedition Map
1 Vedalken Orrery
//Enchantments
1 Fable of Wolf and Owl
1 Future Sight
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Mana Reflection
1 Metallurgic Summonings
1 Propaganda
1 Sylvan Library
1 Trail of Evidence
1 Training Grounds
//Sorceries
1 Bring to Light
1 Cultivate
1 Damnation
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Nature's Lore
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Seasons Past
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Three Visits
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Arachnogenesis
1 Beast Within
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Dig Through Time
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Frantic Search
1 Go for the Throat
1 Impulse
1 Insidious Will
1 Mana Drain
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Nature's Claim
1 Plasm Capture
1 Predict
1 Putrefy
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Stifle
1 Sultai Charm
1 Time Stop
1 Trickbind
1 Voidslime
//Lands
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Bayou
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Flooded Grove
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Tropical Island
1 Twilight Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave
1 Winding Canyons
1 Woodland Cemetery
4 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Snow-Covered Island
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
Exploration
Training Grounds
Updated this list further. I've gone a little more reactive and cut mana rocks for ramp spells. Havengul Lich and Bring to Light are kind of awkward without those, so I'll see how it goes. I'm not yet sure if I want to support that theme a little harder or if I want to cut it entirely. I also have an Alchemist's Refuge for this, but I don't know where I want to make cuts. A basic seems like the obvious answer, but I haven't looked at my color requirements as the deck stands now. Leovold, Emissary of Trest and Nissa, Vital Force are other likely inclusions. I'd also still like to shave a couple of the expensive cards down. The curve is still a little higher than I would like despite the number of cards CMC <= 3.
Bitterblossom seems good with Dire Undercurrents.
Skullclamp with everything -- but might be a card you've left out on purpose
I've done a thread on Thrasios, Triton Hero synergies, and for this deck you might want to check out the section on Landfall. I think it will fit the little sub-theme you have with Fable of Wolf and Owl and Oona, Queen of the Fae with token creatures. Check it out here http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/761412-thrasios-triton-hero-to-infinity-and-beyond#landfall
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Bitterblossom is a possibility, but it's on the back of its strength as an early defensive piece/grindy wincon and not its interaction with Undercurrents. While it's not a bad interaction, it wouldn't be worth including on that alone. Already good inexpensive card that shores up one point where I would like a little more support could be good enough though. Skullclamp is omitted because it's not good here. It's basically only good with Ophiomancer and kind of Snapcaster. Oona, Fable, Sprout Swarm, and Summonings are the only other potential sources of x/1s and those are unlikely to come out before I'm actively attempting to kill people.
I looked at it. It's a solid looking deck, but it doesn't fit with what I'm trying to do here. I'm not building a token deck. I'm building a control deck with tokens as a potential win condition. All of the token producers here are either instant speed mana sinks or trigger through the course of normal gameplay, typically for the possibility of multiple tokens in a turn. If it doesn't help turn the corner over the course of 1-2 turns, it has to be helping me get to the point where I'm trying to do that.
Sorry if it seems like I'm dismissing your ideas out of hand. The deck is rough, but the card choices are all made deliberately and it's heavily influenced by my usual take on Dralnu, Lich Lord, who I've been playing off and on for many years. I have a pretty good idea of what I like in my UBx controlling lists. I'm also quick to admit that building effectively no budget lists with artificial constraints on what I'm interested in running is a little bit of a departure from how most decks in this format get built and is difficult to make suggestions for.
Your signature has reminded me that Kaho, Minamo Historian could be a fun card here (though I'm already apprehensive about my curve) and is on theme. I think I'm going to try her out for at least a game or two. I may also revisit some of the wizard tribal elements that are present in your thread, seeing as there's already some support for that here. You did also remind me that I need to pick up a Nature's Will for my box, even if I'm not planning on using it here.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - Not good here. There are only a handful of creatures that could take advantage of the counters and no other sources for them.
Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper - Roughly as useful as Silas. Better blocker and potentially offers lifegain, but is unlikely to ever kill something and is less useful as a rattlesnake.
Vial Smasher the Fierce - Some synergy with the instant speed themes, but 20 of the nonlands are CMC <= 2 and 35 are CMC <= 3. I'm also more likely to play small spells first, especially cantrips, because it gives me more options.
Tymna the Weaver - I'm not attacking much until I'm actually trying to kill people. Tymna offers card draw at the point in the game where I need it the least.
Ravos, Soultender - 15 creatures, most of which are not coming down early. He's not helpful at the point in the game where I'd want him.
For the 3 options that push me into 4C, there are two additional problems. First, I don't want this to be a 4C deck and that's enough to eliminate them from the running. The second goes back to my comments on Vial Smasher. This deck is loaded with low CMC cards, which means the color requirements are high. There's a reason there are only 4 colorless lands in the list right now (5 once I add Alchemist's Refuge) despite the fetch/dual manabase. If I add a fourth color, I'm making the manabase weaker even if I'm not planning on adding anything beyond the general. I'm also conceding that I'm not seeing that color early (splashing) and I'm losing either utility lands or basics to do it. Silas doesn't offer a lot and is unlikely to be cast often. Despite that, he's the best fit for the niche I'm trying to fill. A Daggerback Basilisk that expands my color identity to what I want isn't exciting but it beats the other available choices.
Myriad Landscape and Blighted Woodland both got passed over for color reasons. I'm trying to minimize colorless sources in the early game. Landscape has the additional downside of CIPT, which I always try to keep to a minimum. Good cards, I'm just a little more conscious of color requirements here than in some decks. I'm more likely to try and find space for City of Brass or Mana Confluence than add more colorless sources right now, especially if I ditch the large mana rocks for smaller ramp spells like I'm considering.
Predict is a little bit of a pet card that's worked out well so far. I've aimed it at opponents more often than myself and hit 3/3 times so far. Topdeck tutors, Oracle of Mul Daya, Courser of Kruphix, and Future Sight (looking to find space for this too) are all pretty common cards in this format. It may not be the most effective card for the slot, but it's good enough and I'm having fun casting it, so it's going to stick around for the time being.
(Stumbled across your decklist while looking for more Silas Renn pair options)