Going to retire tribal Ghave in favor of a slightly different approach: Token Ghave.
I was really having a struggle with the first build - as the game progressed, my board position would be very flat through the early and mid game. If I make it to the late game, all of sudden BAM! Combo win; almost inevitable every time. Well, my meta picks up on this and guess how many times my deck makes it to late game? Yep...zippo.
So it's time for a change. The aim of this build is to really spruce up the early and mid game, steering away from (though not eliminating) the combo potential....cause really, how can you completely eliminate combo with Ghave at the helm, right? Anyways, this build should still be explosive, but in a more controlled aggro kind of way. That's the plan.
I call this deck "Ghave's Radioactive Tokens"
All my decks try to adhere to these guidelines:
1) Be able to win.
2) Be mostly true to a flavor and a theme.
3) Be good against one or multiple opponents.
5) Be fun to pilot or to play against and interactive.
6) Have multiple paths to victory.
7) Have lots of cool interactions and synergy.
8) Play out differently every game to keep it fun over a long time.
9) Be streamlined and fast to play without excessive upkeep, time-consuming play or overcomplicated board states.
10) Integrate the Commanders abilities into the strategy at least a little, but be able to win without ever playing the commander.
The number in front of the card will denote CMC of the creature/spell.
I did some deck testing this evening. Wow, this deck is explosive and recovers VERY well - lot's of draw and lot's of ramp. I am really liking how it's turning out so far. Still need to purchase 6 cards (the ntby on my list), and so 6 cut's will be happening too...
- So far, I think my biggest weakness was against flyers - so I'll need to find something to combat them a little more.
- Including a few more creatures that ETB with lots of +1/+1 counters will also help.
- Need to find some ways to include graveyard recursion.
Now to deck-tweaking - always open to suggestions from the community.
Underworld Connections never panned out that well for me. It sets you back a land as you have to make the choice between tapping the land for mana and tapping the land to draw a card.
In its place I found that Ancient Craving was good. You get the cards you would get in three turns of Underworld Connections activations straight away.
Small update to the decklist. Please see OP for details and changelog.
I've had several opportunities to play with this deck now and it's been very resilient. Still the largest weakness is against flyers, so I might need to tweak a little more on that front still.
I've turned up the notch on 'saprolings' theme within the deck. Is there any other good saproling generators that I've missed?
Acquired a Eldrazi Monument for the build which will help give my saprolings the very much needed protection they deserve. See decklist and changelog in OP.
Why do you run Eerie Interlude instead of something that gives your guys indestructible like Rootborn Defenses? Why aren't you running Verdeloth or Nemata Grove Guardian?
mostly because those are the cards I have on hand and they interact with my current meta. Exile is pretty big and Eerie Interlude can become better than Rootborn Defenses in some circumstances.
The big reason I see to prefer Rootborn is that you can save all your little Saprolings with it and don't have to reset spore counters, where as Eerie Interlude they go away. Plus, it makes another Saproling! Also, Collective Blessing is expensive, but can pump your guys and also the artwork fits the theme. Finally, I'd look to replace Ivy Lane Denizen with Jade Mage.
Oh and Mycoloth is a great EDH card that makes Saprolings too.
Really like the theme here, it's well established.
Have you considered Beastmaster Ascension as a (much) cheaper alternative to Collective Blessing? Does nothing straight away of course, but supremely easy to turn on. Should more or less be game over once its up and running too.
How do you find Retribution of the Ancients? I've considered it before in my iteration, but with less of a focus on counters now, it might be a dead draw. I'd also ask the same about Illusionist's Bracers - I have a copy spare to put in mine, I've been toing and froing about whether it has a place or not.
You may or not have room for this too, and strictly speaking its not a fungus, but Fertilid is a cheaper and strictly better version of Realm Seekers that fits your theme better, to my mind. It drops lands to play instead of hand, comes down earlier, and can target opponents if for whatever reason you might need it to. Pretty sure its had a recent reprint too.
Good Morning toctheyounger77. Thanks for stopping by.
I have considered Beastmaster Ascension, however I've found it as well as Collective Blessing just seemed to be a bit 'win-more' once I have the counter-loops going. In a non-combo Ghave, I definitely think it would be worth a spot.
Again, with the counter theme going, I've really found Retribution of the Ancients to be worth it's weight. After tempo control in the early game, it often turns into one-sided wipes to swarm an opponent with tokens. It works better the more counter produces I have. As I've recently taken a few out, it's probably lost a little bit of power, but still probably worth the spot...
Illusionists' Bracers has been fantastic. It's a combo enabler for Ghave - really a must answer. Naturally, there's the two for one risk, but once on Ghave, it's pure value.
I think you have a really good suggestion with Fertilid instead of Realm Seekers. Early game ramp/utility is better than mid game. I'll make that change....pretty sure I still have a Fertilid in my box.
I think you have a really good suggestion with Fertilid instead of Realm Seekers. Early game ramp/utility is better than mid game. I'll make that change....pretty sure I still have a Fertilid in my box.
Happy to help, it's been great in my iteration. You should also strongly consider Spike Weaver as per your query on my thread. Keeps the heat off you, and even if it does bite removal, better that than Ghave or something more important. Very strong card.
Illusionists' Bracers has been fantastic. It's a combo enabler for Ghave - really a must answer. Naturally, there's the two for one risk, but once on Ghave, it's pure value.
Great, I'll be trying it out in my deck too. Have just added, could be fun.
I have considered Beastmaster Ascension, however I've found it as well as Collective Blessing just seemed to be a bit 'win-more' once I have the counter-loops going. In a non-combo Ghave, I definitely think it would be worth a spot.
Again, with the counter theme going, I've really found Retribution of the Ancients to be worth it's weight. After tempo control in the early game, it often turns into one-sided wipes to swarm an opponent with tokens. It works better the more counter produces I have. As I've recently taken a few out, it's probably lost a little bit of power, but still probably worth the spot...
I can see your point regarding these picks. I'm probably the opposite now; Ascension has more place in my deck than Retribution by virtue of stepping away from the counter theme and towards a reanimator/resiliency theme.
I was really having a struggle with the first build - as the game progressed, my board position would be very flat through the early and mid game. If I make it to the late game, all of sudden BAM! Combo win; almost inevitable every time. Well, my meta picks up on this and guess how many times my deck makes it to late game? Yep...zippo.
So it's time for a change. The aim of this build is to really spruce up the early and mid game, steering away from (though not eliminating) the combo potential....cause really, how can you completely eliminate combo with Ghave at the helm, right? Anyways, this build should still be explosive, but in a more controlled aggro kind of way. That's the plan.
I call this deck "Ghave's Radioactive Tokens"
All my decks try to adhere to these guidelines:
1) Be able to win.
2) Be mostly true to a flavor and a theme.
3) Be good against one or multiple opponents.
5) Be fun to pilot or to play against and interactive.
6) Have multiple paths to victory.
7) Have lots of cool interactions and synergy.
8) Play out differently every game to keep it fun over a long time.
9) Be streamlined and fast to play without excessive upkeep, time-consuming play or overcomplicated board states.
10) Integrate the Commanders abilities into the strategy at least a little, but be able to win without ever playing the commander.
The number in front of the card will denote CMC of the creature/spell.
5 Ghave, Guru of Spores
//Planeswalker (1)
4 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
//Creatures (19)
2 Zulaport Cutthroat
3 Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
3 Fertilid
4 Goldnight Commander
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Smothering Abomination
4 Wilf-Leaf Liege
4 Creakwood Liege
5 Deathbringer Liege
5 Mycoloth
5 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
5 Ant Queen
6 Noosegraf Mob
6 Poniff of Blight
6 Rampaging Baloths
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
7 Butcher of Malakir
7 Hornet Queen
7 Avenger of Zendikar
//Tokens (7)
2 Necrogenesis
3 Sacred Mesa
3x White Sun's Zenith
4 Second Harvest
4 Fresh Meat
6 Necromancer's Covenant
8 Army of the Damned
//Card Advantage (6)
1 Skullclamp
1 Vampiric Rites
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Deathreap Ritual
5 Shamanic Revelation
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Spidersilk Armor
5 Cathars' Crusade
5 Eldrazi Monument
5 Dictate of Heliod
//Control (13)
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Aura Mutation
3 Aura Shards
3 Beast Within
4 Settle the Wreckage
4 Glare of Subdual
5 Fracturing Gust
5 March of Souls
5 Sylvan Reclamation
6 Austere Command
6 Merciless Eviction
7 Hour of Reckoning
//Ramp (10)
1 Sol Ring
2 Song of Freyalise
2 Cryptolith Rite
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Cultivate
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Druids' Repository
4 Tempt with Discovery
5 Mirari's Wake
5 Perilous Forays
//Land (37)
0 Command Tower
0 Exotic Orchard
0 Sandsteppe Citadel
0 Murmuring Bosk
0 Isolated Chapel
0 Woodland Cemetery
0 Sunpetal Grove
0 Canopy Vista
0 Gilt-Leaf Palace
0 Jungle Hollow
0 Opal Palace
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Blighted Woodland
0 Gavony Township
0 Sungrass Prairie
0 Krosan Verge
0 Rogue's Passage
0 Vault of the Archangel
0 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
0 Mosswort Bridge
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Temple of the False God
0 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
0 Grove of the Guardian
4 Forest
4 Plains
4 Swamp
103 cards so far...
3 Awakening Zone (token producer)
6 Grave Titan (token producer)
6 Sun Titan (recursion?)
1x Green Sun's Zenith (tutor?)
5x Martial Coup
6 Darien, King of Kjeldor
10 Storm Herd (tokens)
4 Growing Ranks
anthems?
2 Intangible Virtue
6 Collective Blessing
4 Wolfbriar Elemental
2 Hoofprints of the Stag
3 Sudden Spoiling
3 Fecundity
4 Dread Return
4 Barter in Blood
5 Vraska the Unseen
Feb 10 2018:
Pawn of Ulamog >> Dictate of Heliod
Krosan Grip >> Austere Command
Explosive Vegetation >> Tempt with Discovery (needed more non-basic search)
Old Builds:
5 Ghave, Guru of Spores
//Creatures (19)
/Fungus
1 Utopia Mycon
2 Vitaspore Thallid
2 Deathspore Thallid
3 Psychotrope Thallid
5 Mycoloth
5 Sporemound
/Sap Support
2 Zulaport Cutthroat
2 Mycologist
3 Mentor of the Meek
3 Champion of Lambholt
4 Smothering Abomination
/Counters
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Fertilid
4 Ivy Lane Denizen
4 Corpsejack Menace
5 Juniper Order Ranger
5 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
6 Triskelion
6 Realm Seekers
//Tokens (5)
2 Night Soil
2 Necrogenesis
4 Fungal Sprouting
4 Fertile Imagination
4 Second Harvest
//Card Advantage (7)
1 Skullclamp
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
3 Fecundity
3 Inspiring Call
4 Harmonize
4 Deathreap Ritual
5 Shamanic Revelation
5 Eldrazi Monument
6 Ready // Willing
//Buff (4)
1 Hardened Scales
2 Illusionist's Bracers
3 Spidersilk Armor
5 Cathars' Crusade
//Control (15)
1 Retribution of the Ancients
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Aura Mutation
3 Aura Shards
3 Mortify
3 Putrefy
3 Beast Within
4 Seed Spark
4 Glare of Subdual
5 Fracturing Gust
5 Tragic Arrogance
6 Merciless Eviction
7 Duneblast
7 Hour of Reckoning
//Other Enablers (2)
2 Altar of Dementia
3 Ashnod's Altar
//Ramp (7)
1 Sol Ring
2 Cryptolith Rite
3 Kodama's Reach
3 Cultivate
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Explosive Vegetation
5 Mirari's Wake
0 Command Tower
0 Exotic Orchard
0 Sandsteppe Citadel
0 Murmuring Bosk
0 Opal Palace
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Blighted Woodland
0 Gavony Township
0 Sungrass Prairie
0 Canopy Vista
0 Elfhame Palace
0 Krosan Verge
0 Rogue's Passage
0 Vault of the Archangel
0 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
0 Mosswort Bridge
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Temple of the False God
0 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
8 Forest
7 Plains
5 Swamp
3 Twilight Drover (?)
4 Savra, Queen of the Golgari (?)
3 Blasting Station
4 Sporogenesis
5 Sprout Swarm (?)(ntby)
4 Saproling Symbiosis (ntby)
4 Languish (?)
3 Abzan Falconer (?)(do I need my saps to have flying?)
4 Phantom General (?)
4 Spike Weaver (?)
4 Knight of New Alara (?)(do I have enough multi to warrant inclusion?)
5 Elite Scaleguard (?)(can I overwhelm my opponents enough not to require this?)
5 Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa (?)
5 Sadistic Hypnotist (ntby)(too mean?)
3 Selvala, Explorer Returned (?)
4 Windborn Muse (?)
1x Thrive (?)
2x Strength of the Tajuru (?)
2 Life's Legacy
2x Damnable Pact
2 Ring of Kalonia (?)
2 Unravel the Aether
4 Fresh Meat
5 Soul's Majesty
3 Congregation at Dawn (?)
2 Fists of Ironwood (?)(DoIOwn)
3 Krosan Grip
3 Oblation
2 Evolutionary Leap (pull from Hordes?)
3 Beastmaster Ascension
6 Martyr's Bond (?)(ntby)
3 Mortify
2 Ordeal of Nylea (?)
3 Natural Connection
3 Harrow
5 Mirari's Wake (ntby)
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Golgari Signet
Dec 3 2016:
Catacomb Sifter >> Champion of Lambholt
Reyhan, Last of the Abzan >> Sigil Captain
Golgari Germination >> Selfless Squire
Darksteel Ingot >> Far Wanderings
Commander's Sphere >> Natural Connection
Dec 28 2016:
Abzan Ascendancy >> Aura Shards
Far Wanderings >> Fracturing Gust
Cream of the Crop >> Eerie Interlude
Forest >> Canopy Vista
Jan 23 2017:
Death's Presence >> Winding Constrictor
Sigil Captain >> Eldrazi Monument
March 19 2017:
Selesnya Guildmage >> Phyrexian Reclamation
Korozda Guildmage >> Forest
Ghostly Prison >> Triskelion
Solar Tide >> Merciless Eviction
June 12 2017:
Eerie Interlude >> Illusionist's Bracers
Gift of Immortality >> Swamp
Aug 26 2017:
Selfless Squire >> Mirari's Wake
Brave the Sands >> Nissa's Pilgrimage
Unexpectedly Absent >> Rout
Druidic Satchel >> Mosswort Bridge
Natural Connection >> Harmonize
Forest >> Blighted Woodland
Sept 22 2017:
Winding Constrictor >> Fertilid
Ash Barrens >> Gavony Township
Rout >> Path to Exile
March 15 2018:
Catacomb Sifter >> Nissa's Expedition
April 25 2018:
Garruk Wildspeaker >> Sorin, Selemn Visitor (trying something new)
Altar of Dementia >> Song of Freyalise
Golgari Guildgate >> Woodland Cemetery
Nissa's Expedition >> Druids' Repository
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
Deck 99% complete and really to roll
I did some deck testing this evening. Wow, this deck is explosive and recovers VERY well - lot's of draw and lot's of ramp. I am really liking how it's turning out so far. Still need to purchase 6 cards (the ntby on my list), and so 6 cut's will be happening too...
- So far, I think my biggest weakness was against flyers - so I'll need to find something to combat them a little more.
- Including a few more creatures that ETB with lots of +1/+1 counters will also help.
- Need to find some ways to include graveyard recursion.
Now to deck-tweaking - always open to suggestions from the community.
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
In its place I found that Ancient Craving was good. You get the cards you would get in three turns of Underworld Connections activations straight away.
I've had several opportunities to play with this deck now and it's been very resilient. Still the largest weakness is against flyers, so I might need to tweak a little more on that front still.
I've turned up the notch on 'saprolings' theme within the deck. Is there any other good saproling generators that I've missed?
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
Acquired a Eldrazi Monument for the build which will help give my saprolings the very much needed protection they deserve. See decklist and changelog in OP.
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
As for Verdeloth the Ancient and Nemata, Grove Guardian, I simply don't own them yet...but they are both great suggestions and will see how they'll fit.
Thanks for comment.
edit: workspace..
Collective Blessing
Jade Mage
Ivy Lane Denizen
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
Oh and Mycoloth is a great EDH card that makes Saprolings too.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Have you considered Beastmaster Ascension as a (much) cheaper alternative to Collective Blessing? Does nothing straight away of course, but supremely easy to turn on. Should more or less be game over once its up and running too.
How do you find Retribution of the Ancients? I've considered it before in my iteration, but with less of a focus on counters now, it might be a dead draw. I'd also ask the same about Illusionist's Bracers - I have a copy spare to put in mine, I've been toing and froing about whether it has a place or not.
You may or not have room for this too, and strictly speaking its not a fungus, but Fertilid is a cheaper and strictly better version of Realm Seekers that fits your theme better, to my mind. It drops lands to play instead of hand, comes down earlier, and can target opponents if for whatever reason you might need it to. Pretty sure its had a recent reprint too.
I have considered Beastmaster Ascension, however I've found it as well as Collective Blessing just seemed to be a bit 'win-more' once I have the counter-loops going. In a non-combo Ghave, I definitely think it would be worth a spot.
Again, with the counter theme going, I've really found Retribution of the Ancients to be worth it's weight. After tempo control in the early game, it often turns into one-sided wipes to swarm an opponent with tokens. It works better the more counter produces I have. As I've recently taken a few out, it's probably lost a little bit of power, but still probably worth the spot...
Illusionists' Bracers has been fantastic. It's a combo enabler for Ghave - really a must answer. Naturally, there's the two for one risk, but once on Ghave, it's pure value.
I think you have a really good suggestion with Fertilid instead of Realm Seekers. Early game ramp/utility is better than mid game. I'll make that change....pretty sure I still have a Fertilid in my box.
Thanks for the comments.
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
Happy to help, it's been great in my iteration. You should also strongly consider Spike Weaver as per your query on my thread. Keeps the heat off you, and even if it does bite removal, better that than Ghave or something more important. Very strong card.
Great, I'll be trying it out in my deck too. Have just added, could be fun.
I can see your point regarding these picks. I'm probably the opposite now; Ascension has more place in my deck than Retribution by virtue of stepping away from the counter theme and towards a reanimator/resiliency theme.
Thanks for the feedback!