Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker
+
I've been brainstorming some ideas for a counter themed commander, and when it comes to the best options, the partner commanders allow for a lot of flexibility and the best access to the right colors. I put together a list of creatures focusing on +1/+1 counters to bring forth the apocalypse. I present to you Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker. Who knew that one dragonlord disciple and one who shuns the dragonlords would form such a great team? They have such great synergy with +1/+1 counters that it is very easy to pair them together to make a match made in heaven. Reyhan contributes more counters to any creature to make them beefier than ever and one of the best creatures to add counters to is Ishai who can easily fly over our opponent's creatures to end them with commander damage. If it gets too nasty for her to fly in, she can be sacrificed after gaining counters from our opponent and pass them to a reliable death bringer. There are many amazing creatures that love to have counters on them and generate a lot of value off of counters they receive. I put together a rough list of where I am starting. There are many ways it can be improved and I am continuing to add and remove cards to allow the highest level of consistency possible. Lands are already predetermined and will be added later.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
This is the combination that needs to be played among the commanders with partner. Kudos!
Thanks for the acknowledgement, I appreciate it!
My game plan is pretty straightforward. I'm trying to decide if I should add more ways to be evasive while at the same time not diluting the counter enablers. Evasive options such as Blighted Agent, Abzan Falconer, and Crowned Ceratok (Bramblewood Paragon #2). Or maybe what I need is to just throw down a Venser, the Sojourner when I'm ready to end the game! What's holding me back is dropping out +1/+1 counter generators. I will have to test it when I get it all together and see what is missing and what I need.
How about avenger of zendikar? He adds a lot of counters to the board, and while they may be spread out among tokens reyhan doesn't care, and going wide with counters makes proliferate more efficient.
How about avenger of zendikar? He adds a lot of counters to the board, and while they may be spread out among tokens reyhan doesn't care, and going wide with counters makes proliferate more efficient.
After him, experiment kraj comes to mind
I think Avenger of Zendikar could make a great enabler. With my experience with him, he does not stick around long enough to get more than one trigger, maybe, in my play group. If I cast then play a land, it will be my best chances. And I would need Reyhan out with a sac outlet to make sure I got immediate value, but it is a solid choice. I will have to do some testing and see if it is something I should include.
Experiment Kraj I have been tossing the idea around of whether to include him. Part of me wants to since I have around 10 creatures that have activated abilities, enough to probably use him effectively. But then I have to wonder, if anything I have makes him infinite which I try to avoid most of the time. I have a ton of mana from Gyre Sage, but I guess without a way to untap him, there is a limit. Gilder Bairn not making the list is heavily due to him being considered.
I posted my decklist in your previous thread. There's a Buried Alive package in there that's easy to miss but is really powerful. The Mimeoplasm as a copy of Sage of Hours with a number of counters on it equal to Lord of Extinction's power. With just a few cards from each player this is ~2 extra turns. With a Traumatize or after a major board wipe this becomes 10+ extra turns. There's also a nice synergy with Lord of Extinction and Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. This may require a bit of graveyard focus, or it just means you cast this later in the game when more things are in the grave. It's been game-winning for me and each piece is pretty useful on its own. Just something to consider, your playstyle may vary.
I posted my decklist in your previous thread. There's a Buried Alive package in there that's easy to miss but is really powerful. The Mimeoplasm as a copy of Sage of Hours with a number of counters on it equal to Lord of Extinction's power. With just a few cards from each player this is ~2 extra turns. With a Traumatize or after a major board wipe this becomes 10+ extra turns. There's also a nice synergy with Lord of Extinction and Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. This may require a bit of graveyard focus, or it just means you cast this later in the game when more things are in the grave. It's been game-winning for me and each piece is pretty useful on its own. Just something to consider, your playstyle may vary.
I like your list quite a bit. We do have a little different playstyles, I try not to include cards that can be near infinite or infinite without a lot of setup at least. I like the Lord of Extinction idea since it can be a huge beater on the field and I already run Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, so the synergy is there. Sage of Hours I will probably avoid for that reason alone. The Mimeoplasm can make great use of creatures already in the yard so I may find a slot for him as well. What recommendations of cards should I remove? Thanks for the awesome feedback!
I posted my decklist in your previous thread. There's a Buried Alive package in there that's easy to miss but is really powerful. The Mimeoplasm as a copy of Sage of Hours with a number of counters on it equal to Lord of Extinction's power. With just a few cards from each player this is ~2 extra turns. With a Traumatize or after a major board wipe this becomes 10+ extra turns. There's also a nice synergy with Lord of Extinction and Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. This may require a bit of graveyard focus, or it just means you cast this later in the game when more things are in the grave. It's been game-winning for me and each piece is pretty useful on its own. Just something to consider, your playstyle may vary.
I like your list quite a bit. We do have a little different playstyles, I try not to include cards that can be near infinite or infinite without a lot of setup at least. I like the Lord of Extinction idea since it can be a huge beater on the field and I already run Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, so the synergy is there. Sage of Hours I will probably avoid for that reason alone. The Mimeoplasm can make great use of creatures already in the yard so I may find a slot for him as well. What recommendations of cards should I remove? Thanks for the awesome feedback!
I can respect that, taking 10 extra turns is super oppressive haha. If you don't want to combo, be aware that you have Ghave, Doubling Season, and Ashnod's Altar in the deck. I know you can choose not to combo when you assemble them, but when I've done that in the past it always ends in bad feelings. If they win, they feel they didn't earn it. If I still win, it's like I was toying with them when I could have won at any time.
As for cuts... Vorel of the Hull Clade seems super slow to me. 5 mana and 2 entire turn cycles and all you get is a single +1/+1 counter? At the very least it's worse than Anafenza, the Foremost. I think you should probably look to cut a few of the creatures that don't do anything except have counters on them. So whatever feels the weakest out of Managorger Hydra, Centaur Vinecrasher, or Golgari Grave-Troll. Death's Presence is just another Reyhan but costs more. You have a lot of sac outlets, I would cut Altar of Dementia, and also Ashnod's Altar if you don't want to go infinite with Ghave. Just some suggestions, good luck!
Looks interesting. At a glance, I would imagine that the Signets are better than Talismans for fixing, which is definitely a thing for a four color deck. If nothing else, they hurt you less. Golgari Signet, Azorius Signet, and your choice of on-color guild make clear sense.
Witch-Maw Nephilim seems like it could be a decent enough addition, but you already have so many beaters and four-drops I'm not sure if it's worth over anything else in particular.
As for cuts... Vorel of the Hull Clade seems super slow to me. 5 mana and 2 entire turn cycles and all you get is a single +1/+1 counter?
Vorel doubles counters of any one type on any one (non-pw) permanent. If he's played anything else when Vorel comes out, it should do quite a bit.
I run him as commander of my hydra deck.
Wow! Quite a few comments. Thanks for the great feedback and I will highlight my thoughts below.
@DigitalFire - You make a valid point with Ghave and Ashnod's Altar. I won't always go for it as my go to sac outlet but I'm sure there will be times where I want it over others. I may reevaluate it in my list to avoid that moment with Ghave.
As Randy_M says, Vorel counts EACH counter on a land, artifact, or creature and puts another of those counters. So he doubles the counters on any creature I have.
Managorger Hydra is another creature like my commander, Ishai, except he has trample and all spells trigger him. He racks up the +1/+1 counters very quickly to then either hit hard with trample or to pass it along to another creature that can use them. Centaur Vinecrasher is a possible cut, and I've been thinking about it, however what holds me back is the fact that I can keep getting him back without having a recursion source to be able to sac him again. Golgari Grave-Troll is one of the best at generating a large amount of counters when he enters and he has dredge to pull him back to my hand whenever I need him again. Death's Presence may be win more with Reyhan out, and will probably be one of the first to get cut over the other options. Altar of Dementia can double as a win condition or at the very least a hindrance to a non graveyard abusing opponent. Plus it is a cheap and effective sac outlet. Ashnod's Altar can probably be cut, although it pains me to say that. It is very effective at what it does, but if the scenario from above comes up too often, I will always be target number one. So this one may get axed.
@Fenrir Rex - I originally thought of using the signets but thought that the Talismans could potentially be more useful with less mana investment. I love the signets and almost always use them, but I feel the talismans might be better here. I may do a mix of talismans and signets. Both have been useful in my 3+ color commanders.
@Rasputin101 - I like Sakashima, although I feel like he really isn't needed here. Having two Reyhans out is probably more than what is needed, and it's the same reason I am considering cutting Death's Presence.
@Snake613 - Witch-Maw Nephilim was a high contender for big beaters, but I think his mana cost being restrictive and the amount of other beaters I have in the list already probably makes him needed less. I have been looking for more creatures with evasion so that could boost him over another option. I will look into it.
@Randy_M - I completely forgot about Hangarback Walker and now feel like he needs a place. I have some good suggestions listed above for potential cuts and I will slot him in place of one of those.
Thanks for some great ideas! I will look over what suggestions were mentioned and make some cuts from the list. I appreciate all the feedback!
I agree that if you're trying to avoid the combo feel sage of hours has no room in the list, even legitimate extra turns feel bad and the sheer number you can get here without trying isn't funny. I also think you should generally cut the sacrifice outlets. They give you a nice combat trick with reyhan, but hr works just fine at making combat super awkward for your opponents and letting your dudes get big from dying naturally. Outside of a little value and moving counters during combat they don't really do a lot besides facilitate combos. Better to use those spots for cool stuff like hangerback, or spells like rebuff the wicked or hindering light to protect reyhan and the like
One card I saw mentioned in another Reyhan thread is Rite of Replication. If you cast it kicked on Reyhan, five Reyhans die, but all six see the death triggers, and each trigger would allow three tokens to be added somewhere. Thats 5*6*3 = 90 +1/+1 counters Definitely enough to take out a few players.
I agree that if you're trying to avoid the combo feel sage of hours has no room in the list, even legitimate extra turns feel bad and the sheer number you can get here without trying isn't funny. I also think you should generally cut the sacrifice outlets. They give you a nice combat trick with reyhan, but hr works just fine at making combat super awkward for your opponents and letting your dudes get big from dying naturally. Outside of a little value and moving counters during combat they don't really do a lot besides facilitate combos. Better to use those spots for cool stuff like hangerback, or spells like rebuff the wicked or hindering light to protect reyhan and the like
That is exactly why I do not like the idea of Sage of Hours. I don't necessarily agree on cutting too many sacrifice outlets for the fact that my creatures will probably be bigger than my opponents so they will not die as often and it allows me to control what creatures get what counters when I want them to. And if I plan to cut them I would run Counterspell over Hindering Light or Rebuff the Wicked. For UU I get a better counterspell. But I may consider cutting a few down for cards like Hangarback Walker for sure, I feel he needs a place.
Vigor is a great option and I did consider him. I am trying to keep the amount of 6 cmc or more creatures to a minimum, but he does give a lot of counters if my opponents go to block.
One card I saw mentioned in another Reyhan thread is Rite of Replication. If you cast it kicked on Reyhan, five Reyhans die, but all six see the death triggers, and each trigger would allow three tokens to be added somewhere. Thats 5*6*3 = 90 +1/+1 counters Definitely enough to take out a few players.
Now that is some value. I hadn't thought of that and the interaction and now I really need to find a place for it. I know this card gets crazy in other commanders that have die triggers. It will be an instant death sentence with a few creatures already on board.
Thanks for the great suggestions! I am going to go over my list and make some changes then update with the revisions.
I normally would run Fertillid, however with only 10 basics and other cards that search them out, Nature's Lore, Farseek, Cultivate, Sakura-Tribe Elder, I feel it will probably not do much. I actually plan to drop to less than 10 basics with a few other duals/utility. If I see the need to adding in more basics, I'll probably revisit putting him in the list. Thanks for the great suggestion!
I see how hard to it to make a list with so many +1 counter synergies.
Lol, you have no idea. It's taken me an entire year with Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest and I haven't really pinned it down - and that's just with 2 colors. I can't even begin to fathom with 4!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Spike Weaver is a pretty classic combo with +1/+1 counters. Could help you to race without worrying about getting nailed on the crack-back. Mindless Automaton is another one that, while it may be underwhelming on its own, gets a lot better when you can mess with the number of +1/+1 counters it has.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
I see how hard to it to make a list with so many +1 counter synergies.
I've always been underwhelmed by Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit. Her single counter doesn't do much. She is a smaller version of Cathars' Crusade but more specific with the who gets the counter. I don't see anything in my list I would cut to include her unfortunately. Inspiring Call is a pretty interesting card. I should always get a lot of value out of it. I do have many other creatures that will allow me to draw cards with +1/+1 counters so it may not be needed but having a burst draw might prove useful. I'll add it to the list for testing. Vulturous Zombie has always been better in a deck with a lot of forced sacing, milling, or discarding. I feel he may be a little underwhelming for what he gives. If anything else, he is another big beater, but I'm not lacking on them. Bioshift was something I'd considered. I still have it on the back of my mind to test. I think that it could be underwhelming as a one time trick which makes me more reluctant on its inclusion. Skullbriar, the Walking Grave was on the list but did not make the cut. The fact that he needs to connect to gain counters is hard if he is not your commander where he can come down turn one or two. When I draw into him, if it is late game it will be hard for him to gain his own counters. I may revisit him in the future, but for now I will leave him out.
Thanks for the great suggestions. I'll test out Inspiring Call once everything comes in and I can post how the deck performs.
Spike Weaver is a pretty classic combo with +1/+1 counters. Could help you to race without worrying about getting nailed on the crack-back. Mindless Automaton is another one that, while it may be underwhelming on its own, gets a lot better when you can mess with the number of +1/+1 counters it has.
Spike Weaver has always been a great inclusion in these types of decks. I think he will be added to my list to test out. My only reservation with him is simply how defensive do I want to be with this deck. But the fact that when I tap out to attack my opponents, he can always come in handy to stop them from attacking me. Mindless Automaton is a fantastic card and I absolutely feel he can find a place with the other cards like him such as Sage of Fables. I'll see what my drawing looks like to see if I can make room. The fact that he is a creature is great since I can recur him when needed.
Awesome suggestions! I will include my Cards to Test in the OP.
I've been brainstorming some ideas for a counter themed commander, and when it comes to the best options, the partner commanders allow for a lot of flexibility and the best access to the right colors. I put together a list of creatures focusing on +1/+1 counters to bring forth the apocalypse. I present to you Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker. Who knew that one dragonlord disciple and one who shuns the dragonlords would form such a great team? They have such great synergy with +1/+1 counters that it is very easy to pair them together to make a match made in heaven. Reyhan contributes more counters to any creature to make them beefier than ever and one of the best creatures to add counters to is Ishai who can easily fly over our opponent's creatures to end them with commander damage. If it gets too nasty for her to fly in, she can be sacrificed after gaining counters from our opponent and pass them to a reliable death bringer. There are many amazing creatures that love to have counters on them and generate a lot of value off of counters they receive. I put together a rough list of where I am starting. There are many ways it can be improved and I am continuing to add and remove cards to allow the highest level of consistency possible. Lands are already predetermined and will be added later.
3 Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
4 Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker
+1/+1 Counters Matter - 7
0 Hangarback Walker
2 Bramblewood Paragon
2 Primordial Hydra
3 Champion of Lambholt
3 Chasm Skulker
4 Witch-Maw Nephilim
5 Ghave, Guru of Spores
Card Advantage - 12
1 Vampiric Rites
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Viscera Seer
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Den Protector
2 Zameck Guildmage
3 Sage of Fables
4 Birthing Pod
4 Fathom Mage
4 Greater Good
5 Skullmulcher
6 Prime Speaker Zegana
Removal - 7
1 Path to Exile
1 Retribution of the Ancients
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Attrition
3 Vindicate
6 Bane of Progress
7 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Ramp - 13
1 Sol Ring
2 Azorius Signet
2 Bloom Tender
2 Farseek
2 Golgari Signet
2 Gyre Sage
2 Nature's Lore
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Simic Signet
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Cultivate
3 Phyrexian Altar
4 Skyshroud Claim
1 Hardened Scales
3 Vorel of the Hull Clade
4 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
4 Bloodspore Thrinax
4 Corpsejack Menace
4 Forgotten Ancient
4 Master Biomancer
5 Archangel of Thune
5 Cathars' Crusade
5 Deepglow Skate
5 Doubling Season
5 Kalonian Hydra
5 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
Recursion - 5
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
2 Oversold Cemetery
4 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
5 Golgari Grave-Troll
5 Ravos, Soultender
Other - 4
2 Altar of Dementia
3 Managorger Hydra
4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4 Rite of Replication
Land - 37
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Brushland
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
2 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Yavimaya Coast
3 Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
4 Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker
Creature - 34
0 Hangarback Walker
1 Viscera Seer
2 Bloom Tender
2 Bramblewood Paragon
2 Den Protector
2 Gyre Sage
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Zameck Guildmage
3 Champion of Lambholt
3 Chasm Skulker
3 Managorger Hydra
3 Sage of Fables
3 Vorel of the Hull Clade
4 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
4 Bloodspore Thrinax
4 Corpsejack Menace
4 Fathom Mage
4 Forgotten Ancient
4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4 Master Biomancer
4 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Witch-Maw Nephilim
5 Archangel of Thune
5 Deepglow Skate
5 Ghave, Guru of Spores
5 Golgari Grave-Troll
5 Kalonian Hydra
5 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
5 Ravos, Soultender
5 Skullmulcher
6 Bane of Progress
6 Prime Speaker Zegana
7 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Hardened Scales
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Retribution of the Ancients
1 Vampiric Rites
2 Oversold Cemetery
3 Attrition
4 Greater Good
5 Cathars' Crusade
5 Doubling Season
Artifact - 8
1 Sol Ring
2 Altar of Dementia
2 Azorius Signet
2 Golgari Signet
2 Simic Signet
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Phyrexian Altar
4 Birthing Pod
Instant - 3
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery - 7
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Farseek
2 Nature's Lore
3 Cultivate
3 Vindicate
4 Skyshroud Claim
4 Rite of Replication
Land - 37
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Brushland
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
2 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Yavimaya Coast
Change Log
11/2/2016
- Plaxcaster Frogling
- Avatar of the Resolute
- Varolz, the Scar-Striped
+ Demonic Tutor
+ Bloom Tender
+ Deepglow Skate
11/3/2016
- Talisman of Progress
- Talisman of Dominance
- Talisman of Unity
- Centaur Vinecrasher
- Death's Presence
- Ashnod's Altar
+ Azorius Signet
+ Golgari Signet
+ Simic Signet
+ Hangarback Walker
+ Witch-Maw Niphilim
+ Rite of Replication
Cards to Test
Inspiring Call
Spike Weaver
Mindless Automaton
Vigor
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
Edit - I made a few revisions to the list and added a Change Log.
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Thanks for the acknowledgement, I appreciate it!
My game plan is pretty straightforward. I'm trying to decide if I should add more ways to be evasive while at the same time not diluting the counter enablers. Evasive options such as Blighted Agent, Abzan Falconer, and Crowned Ceratok (Bramblewood Paragon #2). Or maybe what I need is to just throw down a Venser, the Sojourner when I'm ready to end the game! What's holding me back is dropping out +1/+1 counter generators. I will have to test it when I get it all together and see what is missing and what I need.
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
After him, experiment kraj comes to mind
Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/661834-mardu-planeswalker?comment=1
Monthly Proxy Legacy
Charlotte/Greensboro area, NC
Pm me for details
I think Avenger of Zendikar could make a great enabler. With my experience with him, he does not stick around long enough to get more than one trigger, maybe, in my play group. If I cast then play a land, it will be my best chances. And I would need Reyhan out with a sac outlet to make sure I got immediate value, but it is a solid choice. I will have to do some testing and see if it is something I should include.
Experiment Kraj I have been tossing the idea around of whether to include him. Part of me wants to since I have around 10 creatures that have activated abilities, enough to probably use him effectively. But then I have to wonder, if anything I have makes him infinite which I try to avoid most of the time. I have a ton of mana from Gyre Sage, but I guess without a way to untap him, there is a limit. Gilder Bairn not making the list is heavily due to him being considered.
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
I like your list quite a bit. We do have a little different playstyles, I try not to include cards that can be near infinite or infinite without a lot of setup at least. I like the Lord of Extinction idea since it can be a huge beater on the field and I already run Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, so the synergy is there. Sage of Hours I will probably avoid for that reason alone. The Mimeoplasm can make great use of creatures already in the yard so I may find a slot for him as well. What recommendations of cards should I remove? Thanks for the awesome feedback!
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
As for cuts... Vorel of the Hull Clade seems super slow to me. 5 mana and 2 entire turn cycles and all you get is a single +1/+1 counter? At the very least it's worse than Anafenza, the Foremost. I think you should probably look to cut a few of the creatures that don't do anything except have counters on them. So whatever feels the weakest out of Managorger Hydra, Centaur Vinecrasher, or Golgari Grave-Troll. Death's Presence is just another Reyhan but costs more. You have a lot of sac outlets, I would cut Altar of Dementia, and also Ashnod's Altar if you don't want to go infinite with Ghave. Just some suggestions, good luck!
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
I run him as commander of my hydra deck.
Have you considered Hangerback Walker?
@DigitalFire - You make a valid point with Ghave and Ashnod's Altar. I won't always go for it as my go to sac outlet but I'm sure there will be times where I want it over others. I may reevaluate it in my list to avoid that moment with Ghave.
As Randy_M says, Vorel counts EACH counter on a land, artifact, or creature and puts another of those counters. So he doubles the counters on any creature I have.
Managorger Hydra is another creature like my commander, Ishai, except he has trample and all spells trigger him. He racks up the +1/+1 counters very quickly to then either hit hard with trample or to pass it along to another creature that can use them. Centaur Vinecrasher is a possible cut, and I've been thinking about it, however what holds me back is the fact that I can keep getting him back without having a recursion source to be able to sac him again.
Golgari Grave-Troll is one of the best at generating a large amount of counters when he enters and he has dredge to pull him back to my hand whenever I need him again.
Death's Presence may be win more with Reyhan out, and will probably be one of the first to get cut over the other options.
Altar of Dementia can double as a win condition or at the very least a hindrance to a non graveyard abusing opponent. Plus it is a cheap and effective sac outlet.
Ashnod's Altar can probably be cut, although it pains me to say that. It is very effective at what it does, but if the scenario from above comes up too often, I will always be target number one. So this one may get axed.
@Fenrir Rex - I originally thought of using the signets but thought that the Talismans could potentially be more useful with less mana investment. I love the signets and almost always use them, but I feel the talismans might be better here. I may do a mix of talismans and signets. Both have been useful in my 3+ color commanders.
@Rasputin101 - I like Sakashima, although I feel like he really isn't needed here. Having two Reyhans out is probably more than what is needed, and it's the same reason I am considering cutting Death's Presence.
@Snake613 - Witch-Maw Nephilim was a high contender for big beaters, but I think his mana cost being restrictive and the amount of other beaters I have in the list already probably makes him needed less. I have been looking for more creatures with evasion so that could boost him over another option. I will look into it.
@Randy_M - I completely forgot about Hangarback Walker and now feel like he needs a place. I have some good suggestions listed above for potential cuts and I will slot him in place of one of those.
Thanks for some great ideas! I will look over what suggestions were mentioned and make some cuts from the list. I appreciate all the feedback!
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/661834-mardu-planeswalker?comment=1
Monthly Proxy Legacy
Charlotte/Greensboro area, NC
Pm me for details
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
That is exactly why I do not like the idea of Sage of Hours. I don't necessarily agree on cutting too many sacrifice outlets for the fact that my creatures will probably be bigger than my opponents so they will not die as often and it allows me to control what creatures get what counters when I want them to. And if I plan to cut them I would run Counterspell over Hindering Light or Rebuff the Wicked. For UU I get a better counterspell. But I may consider cutting a few down for cards like Hangarback Walker for sure, I feel he needs a place.
Vigor is a great option and I did consider him. I am trying to keep the amount of 6 cmc or more creatures to a minimum, but he does give a lot of counters if my opponents go to block.
Now that is some value. I hadn't thought of that and the interaction and now I really need to find a place for it. I know this card gets crazy in other commanders that have die triggers. It will be an instant death sentence with a few creatures already on board.
Thanks for the great suggestions! I am going to go over my list and make some changes then update with the revisions.
Edit - Here are the changes I made to the list.
- Talisman of Progress
- Talisman of Dominance
- Talisman of Unity
- Centaur Vinecrasher
- Death's Presence
- Ashnod's Altar
+ Azorius Signet
+ Golgari Signet
+ Simic Signet
+ Hangarback Walker
+ Witch-Maw Nephilim
+ Rite of Replication
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
I normally would run Fertillid, however with only 10 basics and other cards that search them out, Nature's Lore, Farseek, Cultivate, Sakura-Tribe Elder, I feel it will probably not do much. I actually plan to drop to less than 10 basics with a few other duals/utility. If I see the need to adding in more basics, I'll probably revisit putting him in the list. Thanks for the great suggestion!
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
I see how hard to it to make a list with so many +1 counter synergies.
Lol, you have no idea. It's taken me an entire year with Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest and I haven't really pinned it down - and that's just with 2 colors. I can't even begin to fathom with 4!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I've always been underwhelmed by Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit. Her single counter doesn't do much. She is a smaller version of Cathars' Crusade but more specific with the who gets the counter. I don't see anything in my list I would cut to include her unfortunately.
Inspiring Call is a pretty interesting card. I should always get a lot of value out of it. I do have many other creatures that will allow me to draw cards with +1/+1 counters so it may not be needed but having a burst draw might prove useful. I'll add it to the list for testing.
Vulturous Zombie has always been better in a deck with a lot of forced sacing, milling, or discarding. I feel he may be a little underwhelming for what he gives. If anything else, he is another big beater, but I'm not lacking on them.
Bioshift was something I'd considered. I still have it on the back of my mind to test. I think that it could be underwhelming as a one time trick which makes me more reluctant on its inclusion.
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave was on the list but did not make the cut. The fact that he needs to connect to gain counters is hard if he is not your commander where he can come down turn one or two. When I draw into him, if it is late game it will be hard for him to gain his own counters. I may revisit him in the future, but for now I will leave him out.
Thanks for the great suggestions. I'll test out Inspiring Call once everything comes in and I can post how the deck performs.
Spike Weaver has always been a great inclusion in these types of decks. I think he will be added to my list to test out. My only reservation with him is simply how defensive do I want to be with this deck. But the fact that when I tap out to attack my opponents, he can always come in handy to stop them from attacking me.
Mindless Automaton is a fantastic card and I absolutely feel he can find a place with the other cards like him such as Sage of Fables. I'll see what my drawing looks like to see if I can make room. The fact that he is a creature is great since I can recur him when needed.
Awesome suggestions! I will include my Cards to Test in the OP.
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB