Path of Discovery is interesting, but I don't think it will make the cut since it won't actually put cards in your hand except for land. The moment a card appears on top of your library that you want, Path immediately loses a lot of value. The +1/+1 counters are nice, but I think we can do better.
That's a fair point, and was part of my concern. Figured it was worth a try, but it looks like all RIX had to offer that could stay is Wayward Swordtooth for the budget players haha! I'll just suck it up and swap Path of Discovery out for Greater Good. Only puts me a little over budget, and then I can build up from there.
Was wondering a bit about certain choices for example is Mirri's Guile better or Sensei's divining top? I have both cards and also have Sylvan Library... but think 3 of the same kind of effect might be a bit to much...
I run Top and Library. Library is in a league of its own because it can draw you two extra cards. As for Top vs. Mirri's Guile, I like top better in this deck because you can get more value out of cards like Oracle of Mul Daya or Courser of Kruphix if you run it. It can also draw you the top card of your deck if you have to have it. The single mana activation cost isn't too much of a burden on this deck.
Perfect, this helps a ton as well! I was actually trying to hunt down a few Panoramas last night to start putting the deck together, as it is annoying to be caught without a sac outlet (only happened once, but resulted in quite a long game). The extra draw from Greater Good and Life's Legacy should help with that. Also got to find out how amazing Gaea's Cradle (Itlimoc in my case) is when I went for the kill and was tapping for 12 mana while I only had a single land on the field!
It is indeed amazing to be able to do that. Now imagine you could do it without having to jump through the hoops of flipping Itlimoc. Tempted to splash out on that Cradle yet?
After more testing, I managed to get Groundskeeper out and immediately wanted to cut her, as well as Beastmaster Ascension. The former was useless and too much mana to work with, and the latter drew a ton of hate and still didn't finish off the game too well, while being vulnerable to removal as opposed to the quick pumps. Eldritch Evolution sounds like a great swap for one of these, and I'll have to try Reap and Sow as well! Wish I had Crucible of Worlds, as there have been many times I think "If only I could cycle these lands from my graveyard," but with more card draw and Life From the Loam, Excavator, and Splendid Reclamation, I'll have that thought less.
Yeah, Crucible of Worlds is fantastic in the deck. Though if you're having trouble getting one, do remember that, thanks to Ramunap Excavator, any creature tutor can now double as a Crucible effect if so needed. It's effects like this that's the reason why I run a lot of tutors despite a very low creature count for a mono-green deck.
Has anyone tried out Path of Discovery? I cut World Shaper pretty quick, but haven't drawn the enchantment yet. Seems like it could help with filtering, but part of me wants to replace it with Fyndhorn Elves for more acceleration.
It's a cool card, but I feel it's a bit too slow and clunky for a deck like this. A 6/4 isn't that much better than a 5/3, and overall, we'd rather the opportunity to put out lands in the graveyard rather than the way this card works. It strike me that this would be a lot more impactful in a deck that made a lot of 1/1 tokens. More early game mana is always a good thing, so swapping for the elves makes sense.
Edit @Phrox: That is also an insane infinite, and even if it isn't completely reliable, I absolutely have to try it sometime! I was trying to find a game ending combo to fit in the deck that wasn't Food Chain! Are you alright with me adding it to my deck description on tappedout as a reminder to me with credit to you? Just asking because it isn't a private deck, so others could potentially see the idea.
Path of Discovery is interesting, but I don't think it will make the cut since it won't actually put cards in your hand except for land. The moment a card appears on top of your library that you want, Path immediately loses a lot of value. The +1/+1 counters are nice, but I think we can do better.
That is a pretty sweet combo with Seasons Past. What I really like about it is that every other card you need to go off you want in the deck anyway. You don't need to go out of your way to make it work, like I found with World Shaper. You can accidentally fall in to this combo, and if you don't each piece is useful anyway.
It's a fun combo, though it's not that useful - you have to be able to draw your deck and yet not be able to win with the amount of elementals you can create normally from doing so. But it's a nice option to have for those odd cases that you can't just hit the enemies for the win such as an opponent using Constant Mists. And yeah, I didn't put any of the cards in there to go infinite, I was something I realised was in there when considering a Seasons Past loop as the wincon for a infinite mana Thrasios, Triton hero deck, combined with the experience of a game where I cast Splendid Reclamation with Lotus Cobra in play three times in one turn (surprisingly enough, I won that game).
And if you want to spread the word of it, please go ahead.
I have made my first draft of the deck, wil probably get to play a bit tomorrow... also a good buddy of mine seems to have scapeshift.. and another magicer in my group has Ramunap.. so guess that is at least 2 cards I might get closer soon.. prolly Ramunap tomorrow.. Scapeshift depends on when the other player is around.. He doesn't live in the area anymore... though he does come here sometimes...
Was wondering a bit about certain choices for example is Mirri's Guile better or Sensei's divining top? I have both cards and also have Sylvan Library... but think 3 of the same kind of effect might be a bit to much...
Overall, I do think Sensei's Divining Top is better than Mirri's Guile, though Sylvan Library is definitely better than either. The reason I run Mirri's Guile is because 1 - I had one lying around and 2 - I completely forgot I didn't have a Top in my list. That said, putting all three of these cards in is not a bad idea, as with the amount of shuffling effects we have (e.g. Fetchlands), we can take full advantage of them, it's just a matter of whether you can spare the slots.
I would definitely pick up the three cards you're missing. Edge of Autumn is a great early game ramp spell and late game it becomes put a 5/3 on to the battlefield and draw a card.
Concordant Crossroads is essential for the turns you go off. Once you feel it's safe to deploy that Zuran Orb, float some mana, sac your lands, and smash everyone's face in.
I don't normally run fogs in my lists, but the fact that this one has buy back at the cost of providing us a 5/3 makes it work so well. I've mentioned it before, but we tend to be weak in the air, so having some reusable protection with value attached is excellent.
Yeah, those three cards are all worth getting. In particular I would prioritise the Concordant Crossroads. It's an incredibly strong card when you can get power onto the board as fast as a Titania deck, although I should note that you really shouldn't be thinking of it as a 1 mana enchantment that gives everyone's stuff haste. It's a 1 mana sorcery that gives just your stuff haste. Your opponents won't benefit because they'll be dead on the turn you play it. While without it you can sacrifice lands EOT, then untap with your elementals and swing, unless you've a Gaea's Cradle around, you're not going to have mana available. With a Crossroads, you can tap your lands, then sacrifice them and then swing on the same turn, which is far more effective. A typical big turn for a Titania deck is something like "play land, cast Sylvan Safekeeper, float 9 mana, sacrifice 9 lands, play Concordant Crossroads, play Craterhoof Behemoth, swing". This can be done with nothing but your general and 8 lands in play at the start of the turn, and will have you hitting for 200 trampling damage. The only real alternative for giving everything you have haste is Akroma's Memorial which costs 7, often precluding the use of an overrun effect, thus preventing you having enough power to kill the board.
Its turns like that which really define what a typical Titania deck is about. You'll have games where you're getting one or two elementals a turn, putting pressure on your opponents by swinging for 15-20 damage, being hit by a boardwipe or two, recovering, getting back to the grinding of damage, and end up on top. But of the games you win, you'll probably find those type of games to be a minority. Instead, it's the explosive ones that will get you the victories more often than not. The ones where you go from "innocuous" to "oh crap he's got lethal" in a single main phase. In many ways (at least in multiplayer), Titania, Protector of Argoth is more of a combo type commander than an aggro one. She typically doesn't go infinite, but in terms of how the deck plays, with early turns being development - ramp & card draw - before having a single turn that wins you the game, it's closer to the general plan of a combo archetype than anything else (my current list, with a lot of card draw and ways of generating big mana is almost a storm deck at times...). And Concordant Crossroads is one of the most important enablers for this style of play, and there's really no substitute for it.
It is indeed amazing to be able to do that. Now imagine you could do it without having to jump through the hoops of flipping Itlimoc. Tempted to splash out on that Cradle yet?
I'd say you have no idea, but you probably do haha! I'm very tempted, but I'll have to hold off for now. Not being able to fetch Itlimoc is the main thing that has gotten me. Every game I wish it was a land instead of an enchantment so that I can fetch it!
Yeah, Crucible of Worlds is fantastic in the deck. Though if you're having trouble getting one, do remember that, thanks to Ramunap Excavator, any creature tutor can now double as a Crucible effect if so needed. It's effects like this that's the reason why I run a lot of tutors despite a very low creature count for a mono-green deck.
Honestly, every time I have tutored so far it has been for either Sylvan Safekeeper so that I have a sac outlet to win the game, or Ramunap Excavator to grind out the longer game. Thanks to the amount of cheap tutors (and I'll try to add in Worldly Tutor later), I have been able to find both most games.
It's a cool card, but I feel it's a bit too slow and clunky for a deck like this. A 6/4 isn't that much better than a 5/3, and overall, we'd rather the opportunity to put out lands in the graveyard rather than the way this card works. It strike me that this would be a lot more impactful in a deck that made a lot of 1/1 tokens. More early game mana is always a good thing, so swapping for the elves makes sense.
I ended up swapping it for Greater Good instead after Driemer's response (no regrets at all!), but thanks for the response as well! I was probably trying a little too hard to make budget cards work instead of a fairly irreplaceable card.
It's a fun combo, though it's not that useful - you have to be able to draw your deck and yet not be able to win with the amount of elementals you can create normally from doing so. But it's a nice option to have for those odd cases that you can't just hit the enemies for the win such as an opponent using Constant Mists. And yeah, I didn't put any of the cards in there to go infinite, I was something I realised was in there when considering a Seasons Past loop as the wincon for a infinite mana Thrasios, Triton hero deck, combined with the experience of a game where I cast Splendid Reclamation with Lotus Cobra in play three times in one turn (surprisingly enough, I won that game).
And if you want to spread the word of it, please go ahead.
It's true, drawing your deck beforehand isn't ideal, but at the same time I was pretty excited because it gives some chance for a crazy infinite. I'm a Johnny/Spike and my current most played deck is janky Slobad, Goblin Artificer artifact deck. That should explain just about everything about my reaction to a crazy combo hahaha! As Driemer pointed out though, having all of those cards in the deck already makes it something to keep in mind for the long game when it is hard to push through to the last player or something similar.
As a side note, that last post seems to sum up the deck nicely, and it is exactly that versatility that has been making Titania so fun to play.
Regarding Concordant Crossroads, if you sac all you lands EOT, how are you casting Craterhoof Behemoth? Saccing 9 lands EOT gives you 50 power (including your general). Saccing 9 lands into Hoofy and Crossroads gives you 176 power with trample. That's the difference between killing a player and winning the game.
Even more than just the simple situation where I have both Crossroads and an overrun in hand though, where it really shines is when I'm having turns that I don't have a wincon in hand, but I've ways of drawing cards. Having the knowledge that there is an immediate outlet in my deck means I can play far more riskily when digging - I'm not going to sacrifice all my lands in order to draw cards off of a Garruk's Packleader if I know for sure I'm going to have to wait a turn before the elementals can do anything (as a single board wipe and I'm effectively out of the game), and I don't want to wait till EoT to draw those cards, because then I won't have any mana to cast them with. With Concordant Crossroads in the deck, I'd probably go for it. While the chances of hitting said card are relatively low, the chances of hitting ways of drawing more cards, either directly with a Life's Legacy or similar or indirectly with Splendid Reclamation, are pretty good, and those cards in turn will make it more and more likely to get the Crossroads and overrun that win the game.
If all you want to do is play tempo, Concordant Crossroads isn't amazing. But you're selling Titania short if you just want her as a midrangey deck that slowly increases the power on the board, and hits people with elementals. She's more flexible than that. There are times when doing that are the right play. But there are times when being able to explode from almost nothing is the right play, and Concordant Crossroads lets you do that.
Both Life's Legacy and Natural Order are must haves for me, and Momentous Fall isn't far behind them. The two "draw 5s" provide so much gas, especially at 2 mana for Life's Legacy (a ridiculous return on your mana which leaves blue and black decks envious of your draw power), while Natural Order is an extra copy of every creature in our deck. We always have 5/3s, sacrificing one is nothing. I will say in general that getting a good amount of drawpower is vital for how I play the deck at least. The kind of explosive turns I described above are dependent on having enough such spells to chain them together. I've currently got 4 one shot "draw 5s" (Life's Legacy, Momentous Fall, Hunter's Insight and Rishkar's Expertise), the god card that is Greater Good, 2 "draw equal to number of creatures" (Regal Force and Shamanic Revelation), 2 "draw when I get a creature" (Garruk's Packleader and Elemental Bond), plus Nissa, Vastwood Seer and Sylvan Library for slower more constant draw and the occasional craziness of ulting Nissa, Vital Force.
Ramping Titania out quickly, preferably with a fecthland in the yard, is definitely how I try to start off the game. Where I go from there is dependent on what I've drawn. Ideally, I've got a draw spell or two to get more gas, or a tutor to get me a good value engine like Ramunap Excavator or Garruk's Packleader which allow me to start taking over the game.
Burgeoning is an interesting card. It allows for some incredible starts (I've had a T2 Titania off just it and land), but that's about all it does. Once you've got Titania out, it doesn't really add much to your gameplan, and taking a hand with it and 5 lands is probably leaving you really short on gas. Exploration by comparison, has the synergy with Crucible of Worlds and fetchlands, allowing us to not just play 2 lands, but also get 2 elementals guaranteed per turn unless someone exiles our 'yard. Gaea's Touch has the similar problem in that it's playing land exclusively from hand and adds the limit of forests only.
Hey guys, I'm planning on putting an order through to pick up the last few pieces of the deck I'm missing. I was curious, what basic lands do you tend to use? I'm a sucker for basics that fit the deck, and while I hope to collect Un-set full arts over time, I was hoping to get other ideas for the initial buy. Was looking at these so far:
I'm old school. I've got 5 edh decks together and I use lands no newer than Invasion. I know these don't pertain to Titania, but I'm going to take a second to show off the lands because I'm a sucker for basics as well. I run all mine matching. I can't handle mismatched lands in my decks for some reason.
I love the land choices there, but unfortunately I'm more of a modern borders player myself. Beautiful artwork though, I can see why you would pick them!
Right now, I've got an assorted mix of basics, but I'm finally going to put an order in for Ice Age Snow-Covered Forests (much nicer than the Cold Snap ones), so I can run Mouth of Ronom, which my instincts tell me will be a pretty solid card for Titania (tutorable removal that nets me an elemental? yes please...).
If I was to get the non-snow Forests of my choice, I'd either go for the same John Avon one as Driemer, or, as this is my favourite deck, splash out on a set of Unhinged ones (or if I was really going to go crazy money wise Gurus, but that's not even remotely plausible...).
My favourite basic land of all is this plains. Invasion had amazing lands - though both John Avon and Terese Nielsen contributed, so I suppose it's not that surprising.
You'll have to let me know how Mouth works. I've looked at that land for awhile, but I haven't felt like paying the premium on Snow-Covered Forests (I'd go for Ice Age too).
*Edit* I guess the pricing on Snow-Covered Forests isn't too bad. I just picked up Snow-Covered Islands for pauper and they were a bit more.
And I'm right there with you on the plains. That Invasion art is probably my favorite as well.
Right now, I've got an assorted mix of basics, but I'm finally going to put an order in for Ice Age Snow-Covered Forests (much nicer than the Cold Snap ones), so I can run Mouth of Ronom, which my instincts tell me will be a pretty solid card for Titania (tutorable removal that nets me an elemental? yes please...).
If I was to get the non-snow Forests of my choice, I'd either go for the same John Avon one as Driemer, or, as this is my favourite deck, splash out on a set of Unhinged ones (or if I was really going to go crazy money wise Gurus, but that's not even remotely plausible...).
My favourite basic land of all is this plains. Invasion had amazing lands - though both John Avon and Terese Nielsen contributed, so I suppose it's not that surprising.
I'm only going to have 16-17 (depending on what I cut for Mouth) snow cards, so I don't really feel that Scrying Sheets is worth using up one of my colourless land slots.
Right now, I've got an assorted mix of basics, but I'm finally going to put an order in for Ice Age Snow-Covered Forests (much nicer than the Cold Snap ones), so I can run Mouth of Ronom, which my instincts tell me will be a pretty solid card for Titania (tutorable removal that nets me an elemental? yes please...).
If I was to get the non-snow Forests of my choice, I'd either go for the same John Avon one as Driemer, or, as this is my favourite deck, splash out on a set of Unhinged ones (or if I was really going to go crazy money wise Gurus, but that's not even remotely plausible...).
My favourite basic land of all is this plains. Invasion had amazing lands - though both John Avon and Terese Nielsen contributed, so I suppose it's not that surprising.
I was going to suggest ice age lands too. I play them in all my decks - they are adorable
I would love to run that John Avon land if only it was printed with modern borders! I'll grab some cheaper new ones for now then, and probably build up to something else later when I can decide haha
Well I just bit the bullet and bought about 15 Ice Age Snow-Covered Forests along with a Mouth of Ronom for only $10.00. I'm excited to give them a shot. I think I'll be cutting Buried Ruin for Mouth. I already run E Wit, Noxious Revival, Regrowth, and Nissa Vital Force to get things back from the graveyard so Ruin isn't all that useful. Almost every game there is a time where I wouldn't mind shooting a creature for 4 damage. I can't say that there is always an artifact in my yard that I'd like to recover.
I'm also considering cutting Scorched Ruins to fit in Myriad Landscape or a 14th Forest, though I'm not sure on that one.
Has anyone gotten any games in with Titania recently? I keep trying to narrow down the list of cards I want to try, but I seem to be going backwards.
I'm curious about Wayward Swordtooth. Another Exploration effect seems nice, though this one costs 3, but it does have the upside of being a 5/5. Turning on the City's Blessing in this deck doesn't seem like an issue.
Rhonas the Indomitable seems like another decent addition. It's almost always going to be able to attack and block and a mana sink to give your guys trample seems alright. My concern here is that I'm usually winning with an all out attack and I'm not sure if he's necessary. The ability to give a token trample and peck away at someones life total might not be a bad thing for the deck though.
I have been running Titania again lately and I have the same problem - it's difficult to make cuts. Our lists are pretty similar, but I play more removal and a few different threats than you while I don't play the Regrowth style cards. Noxious Revival seems like a pretty easy cut IMO for Wayward Swordtooth. I like Rhonas a lot less than either Nylea, God of the Hunt or Kamahl, Fist of Krosa since both of them provide a win condition and some decent utility. Kamahl in particular is an absolute beast when you're trying to protect your board from Wraths.
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I think I'd rather cut some of the other graveyard recursion if I'm going to go that route, which I think is something to seriously consider. Noxious Revival has saved some pretty key cards by being instant speed, but I'm sure you have your own take on the deck. But I do agree with your over all opinion that maybe Regrowth could go.
Now that you talk about Nylea and Kamahl, I have a different perspective on Rhonas. I was just looking at new tech and thinking he seems powerful, but I hadn't made the comparison to those two cards, which would obviously be much better than Rhonas. Does anyone have experience with Nylea or is the effect unneeded? I have a lot of games in with the deck, but have never even considered Nylea in it. Kamahl, on the other hand, has actually been in my deck at one point, but I cut him because he was expensive to cast and activate. I've been served better by Craterhoof, Overwhelming Stampede, and Triumph of the Hordes, and I'm not sure I need a 4th finisher in the deck. His secondary ability is similar to what Natural Affinity can do, but more expensive. When I ran Natural Affinity, the times where I had it in hand and it lined up with someone else wrath were few and far between. I think I used it once to give a Craterhoof trigger a boost, but I never got to live the dream so I cut it. Outside of getting someone, I never found it useful.
How much ramp does everyone run? After many games I've become partial to the two mana ramp vs. Cultivate, Skyshroud Claim and the ilk. Now that I've switched to Snow-Covered Forests, I can run Into the North, which can also grab Dark Depths. Into the North is an easy card to slot in over Rampant Growth, but I'm wondering if I keep Rampant Growth and bring in Into the North over something else?
I appreciate the feed back. I'm always curious to hear other peoples experiences with cards, even if it doesn't line up with my own. It always gives me context of the cards in situations I haven't been in or considered.
Oh yeah, making cuts is a nightmare in this deck. I've also been looking to get a bit more early game ramp into my deck (probably Into the North, Rampant Growth and Joraga Treespeaker - I'm not madly keen on dorks in Titania as there's no real overall synergy, but Treespeaker is a very good bit of ramp so I'm going to give it a try), but I'm really having trouble finding the slots. I'm actually seriously considering dropping Constant Mists - the variability is a bit too high. When it works, it's amazing, but I've had a good number of games where I'm not being swung at and all it is is an expensive way to sac lands.
I'll agree that Noxious Revival is a very good card and not one I'd look to cut. Instant speed, manaless recursion that can also be used to mess with opponents graveyard/topdeck shenanigans is powerful, and with the amount of card draw we can get, the card disadvantage isn't that major. In general, my cheap green recursion package is two of Noxious Revival, Regrowth and Eternal Witness and in Titania, Regrowth is the one that doesn't make the cut for me - EW is tutorable and can be fed into Eldritch Evolution, fuels Cradle etc. (I also have Seasons Past as my big recursion spell).
For the new cards, Wayward Swordtooth doesn't really impress me. Even with the City's Blessing, the body isn't that useful and 3 mana for an Exploration isn't great (I mean, we can get double the effect for that cost). With Azusa, Exploration and Oracle already in, I'd probably prefer a cheap ramp spell to this. Likewise, I'm not really sure what Rhonas the Indomitable or the other similar effects really offer to the deck. Buffing 1 creature is rather meh and again, the body on its own is pretty insignificant when we have 5/3s on tap.
One card I've been looking at again is Food Chain. In the past I've felt its a little clunky, but my deck is a fair bit more streamlined now, and I've got more ways of actually winning on the spot with the combo rather than sitting there fore a turn hoping no-one wraths compared to when I last considered the card, so 'm tempted to put it in. I'd probably benefit from another way of finding Command Beacon so Sylvan Scrying will probably be back in. Of course, when combined with the ramp I mentioned earlier, thats 5 cards I need to cut....
I'm actually going to go a different direction on the Nylea discussion and say that I like Thunderfoot Baloth more than both of my other suggestions. It immediately impacts the board better than my other suggestions do (although I still think Kamahl is a clutch rattlesnake and I would never cut him). But then again I also run Birthing Pod so having a finisher at multiple CMCs has been very strong for me.
It looks like we're running similar if not identical ramp suites. I don't think I'm actually running any ramp in the 2 slot (unless you count Cobra and STE) since there isn't really anything in particular I'm trying to do on 4 that would make me want to ramp past 3.
My biggest issue with Food Chain is that I don't see it getting me from the early game "setup" phase to the midgame "draw a lot of cards" phase because it can't be used to cast most of the card advantage engines.
By the way, I love this deck. It has incredible recovery speed after board wipes and can be packed with a surprising amount of removal too. It's totally out of the ordinary for mono-G and a ton of fun to play.
I've been considering Garruk's Packleader, but I'm not sure if his incremental effect is better than anything I'm currently running at the moment. I like that most of my one time use draw almost always hits 5 cards right away. With Garruk's Packleader, ideally you'd want him out before Titania, so when she starts to do her thing you start to net some cards, but unfortunately they have the same cmc. Elemental Bond works because it comes down on turn two or three and is ready to go when Titania hits the board.
Am I evaluating this guy correctly or am I overvaluing some of the other draw spells? I feel like I'm at the right number of draw effects in the deck so I'm probably looking at replacing something if I add in the Packleader. What do you guys think?
That's a fair point, and was part of my concern. Figured it was worth a try, but it looks like all RIX had to offer that could stay is Wayward Swordtooth for the budget players haha! I'll just suck it up and swap Path of Discovery out for Greater Good. Only puts me a little over budget, and then I can build up from there.
I run Top and Library. Library is in a league of its own because it can draw you two extra cards. As for Top vs. Mirri's Guile, I like top better in this deck because you can get more value out of cards like Oracle of Mul Daya or Courser of Kruphix if you run it. It can also draw you the top card of your deck if you have to have it. The single mana activation cost isn't too much of a burden on this deck.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
It is indeed amazing to be able to do that. Now imagine you could do it without having to jump through the hoops of flipping Itlimoc. Tempted to splash out on that Cradle yet?
Yeah, Crucible of Worlds is fantastic in the deck. Though if you're having trouble getting one, do remember that, thanks to Ramunap Excavator, any creature tutor can now double as a Crucible effect if so needed. It's effects like this that's the reason why I run a lot of tutors despite a very low creature count for a mono-green deck.
It's a cool card, but I feel it's a bit too slow and clunky for a deck like this. A 6/4 isn't that much better than a 5/3, and overall, we'd rather the opportunity to put out lands in the graveyard rather than the way this card works. It strike me that this would be a lot more impactful in a deck that made a lot of 1/1 tokens. More early game mana is always a good thing, so swapping for the elves makes sense.
It's a fun combo, though it's not that useful - you have to be able to draw your deck and yet not be able to win with the amount of elementals you can create normally from doing so. But it's a nice option to have for those odd cases that you can't just hit the enemies for the win such as an opponent using Constant Mists. And yeah, I didn't put any of the cards in there to go infinite, I was something I realised was in there when considering a Seasons Past loop as the wincon for a infinite mana Thrasios, Triton hero deck, combined with the experience of a game where I cast Splendid Reclamation with Lotus Cobra in play three times in one turn (surprisingly enough, I won that game).
And if you want to spread the word of it, please go ahead.
Overall, I do think Sensei's Divining Top is better than Mirri's Guile, though Sylvan Library is definitely better than either. The reason I run Mirri's Guile is because 1 - I had one lying around and 2 - I completely forgot I didn't have a Top in my list. That said, putting all three of these cards in is not a bad idea, as with the amount of shuffling effects we have (e.g. Fetchlands), we can take full advantage of them, it's just a matter of whether you can spare the slots.
Concordant Crossroads is essential for the turns you go off. Once you feel it's safe to deploy that Zuran Orb, float some mana, sac your lands, and smash everyone's face in.
I don't normally run fogs in my lists, but the fact that this one has buy back at the cost of providing us a 5/3 makes it work so well. I've mentioned it before, but we tend to be weak in the air, so having some reusable protection with value attached is excellent.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Its turns like that which really define what a typical Titania deck is about. You'll have games where you're getting one or two elementals a turn, putting pressure on your opponents by swinging for 15-20 damage, being hit by a boardwipe or two, recovering, getting back to the grinding of damage, and end up on top. But of the games you win, you'll probably find those type of games to be a minority. Instead, it's the explosive ones that will get you the victories more often than not. The ones where you go from "innocuous" to "oh crap he's got lethal" in a single main phase. In many ways (at least in multiplayer), Titania, Protector of Argoth is more of a combo type commander than an aggro one. She typically doesn't go infinite, but in terms of how the deck plays, with early turns being development - ramp & card draw - before having a single turn that wins you the game, it's closer to the general plan of a combo archetype than anything else (my current list, with a lot of card draw and ways of generating big mana is almost a storm deck at times...). And Concordant Crossroads is one of the most important enablers for this style of play, and there's really no substitute for it.
I'd say you have no idea, but you probably do haha! I'm very tempted, but I'll have to hold off for now. Not being able to fetch Itlimoc is the main thing that has gotten me. Every game I wish it was a land instead of an enchantment so that I can fetch it!
Honestly, every time I have tutored so far it has been for either Sylvan Safekeeper so that I have a sac outlet to win the game, or Ramunap Excavator to grind out the longer game. Thanks to the amount of cheap tutors (and I'll try to add in Worldly Tutor later), I have been able to find both most games.
I ended up swapping it for Greater Good instead after Driemer's response (no regrets at all!), but thanks for the response as well! I was probably trying a little too hard to make budget cards work instead of a fairly irreplaceable card.
It's true, drawing your deck beforehand isn't ideal, but at the same time I was pretty excited because it gives some chance for a crazy infinite. I'm a Johnny/Spike and my current most played deck is janky Slobad, Goblin Artificer artifact deck. That should explain just about everything about my reaction to a crazy combo hahaha! As Driemer pointed out though, having all of those cards in the deck already makes it something to keep in mind for the long game when it is hard to push through to the last player or something similar.
As a side note, that last post seems to sum up the deck nicely, and it is exactly that versatility that has been making Titania so fun to play.
Azusa is getting reprinted! One of the best multi-land cards! Rejoice!
Even more than just the simple situation where I have both Crossroads and an overrun in hand though, where it really shines is when I'm having turns that I don't have a wincon in hand, but I've ways of drawing cards. Having the knowledge that there is an immediate outlet in my deck means I can play far more riskily when digging - I'm not going to sacrifice all my lands in order to draw cards off of a Garruk's Packleader if I know for sure I'm going to have to wait a turn before the elementals can do anything (as a single board wipe and I'm effectively out of the game), and I don't want to wait till EoT to draw those cards, because then I won't have any mana to cast them with. With Concordant Crossroads in the deck, I'd probably go for it. While the chances of hitting said card are relatively low, the chances of hitting ways of drawing more cards, either directly with a Life's Legacy or similar or indirectly with Splendid Reclamation, are pretty good, and those cards in turn will make it more and more likely to get the Crossroads and overrun that win the game.
If all you want to do is play tempo, Concordant Crossroads isn't amazing. But you're selling Titania short if you just want her as a midrangey deck that slowly increases the power on the board, and hits people with elementals. She's more flexible than that. There are times when doing that are the right play. But there are times when being able to explode from almost nothing is the right play, and Concordant Crossroads lets you do that.
Both Life's Legacy and Natural Order are must haves for me, and Momentous Fall isn't far behind them. The two "draw 5s" provide so much gas, especially at 2 mana for Life's Legacy (a ridiculous return on your mana which leaves blue and black decks envious of your draw power), while Natural Order is an extra copy of every creature in our deck. We always have 5/3s, sacrificing one is nothing. I will say in general that getting a good amount of drawpower is vital for how I play the deck at least. The kind of explosive turns I described above are dependent on having enough such spells to chain them together. I've currently got 4 one shot "draw 5s" (Life's Legacy, Momentous Fall, Hunter's Insight and Rishkar's Expertise), the god card that is Greater Good, 2 "draw equal to number of creatures" (Regal Force and Shamanic Revelation), 2 "draw when I get a creature" (Garruk's Packleader and Elemental Bond), plus Nissa, Vastwood Seer and Sylvan Library for slower more constant draw and the occasional craziness of ulting Nissa, Vital Force.
Ramping Titania out quickly, preferably with a fecthland in the yard, is definitely how I try to start off the game. Where I go from there is dependent on what I've drawn. Ideally, I've got a draw spell or two to get more gas, or a tutor to get me a good value engine like Ramunap Excavator or Garruk's Packleader which allow me to start taking over the game.
Burgeoning is an interesting card. It allows for some incredible starts (I've had a T2 Titania off just it and land), but that's about all it does. Once you've got Titania out, it doesn't really add much to your gameplan, and taking a hand with it and 5 lands is probably leaving you really short on gas. Exploration by comparison, has the synergy with Crucible of Worlds and fetchlands, allowing us to not just play 2 lands, but also get 2 elementals guaranteed per turn unless someone exiles our 'yard. Gaea's Touch has the similar problem in that it's playing land exclusively from hand and adds the limit of forests only.
https://magiccards.info/ori/en/269.html
https://magiccards.info/kld/en/262.html
https://magiccards.info/rix/en/196.html
Titania - https://magiccards.info/in/en/347.html
Mono Black - https://magiccards.info/mr/en/312.html
Bant -
Forest - https://magiccards.info/ug/en/88.html
Island - https://magiccards.info/ug/en/85.html
Plains - https://magiccards.info/ug/en/84.html
Abzan
Forest - https://magiccards.info/ia/en/330.html
Plains - https://magiccards.info/ia/en/344.html
Swamp - https://magiccards.info/ia/en/355.html
Esper -
Island - https://magiccards.info/in/en/336.html
Plains - https://magiccards.info/in/en/331.html
Swamp - https://magiccards.info/in/en/340.html
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
If I was to get the non-snow Forests of my choice, I'd either go for the same John Avon one as Driemer, or, as this is my favourite deck, splash out on a set of Unhinged ones (or if I was really going to go crazy money wise Gurus, but that's not even remotely plausible...).
My favourite basic land of all is this plains. Invasion had amazing lands - though both John Avon and Terese Nielsen contributed, so I suppose it's not that surprising.
*Edit* I guess the pricing on Snow-Covered Forests isn't too bad. I just picked up Snow-Covered Islands for pauper and they were a bit more.
And I'm right there with you on the plains. That Invasion art is probably my favorite as well.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Another option for snow lands synergy is Scrying Sheets to put basic lands or Mouth of Ronom into your hand.
I was going to suggest ice age lands too. I play them in all my decks - they are adorable
I'm also considering cutting Scorched Ruins to fit in Myriad Landscape or a 14th Forest, though I'm not sure on that one.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
I'm curious about Wayward Swordtooth. Another Exploration effect seems nice, though this one costs 3, but it does have the upside of being a 5/5. Turning on the City's Blessing in this deck doesn't seem like an issue.
Rhonas the Indomitable seems like another decent addition. It's almost always going to be able to attack and block and a mana sink to give your guys trample seems alright. My concern here is that I'm usually winning with an all out attack and I'm not sure if he's necessary. The ability to give a token trample and peck away at someones life total might not be a bad thing for the deck though.
As always.... what do you cut?
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
Land (43)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
1x Command Beacon
1x Crystal Vein
1x Dark Depths
1x Deserted Temple
1x Drownyard Temple
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dust Bowl
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Havenwood Battleground
1x Hickory Woodlot
1x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mosswort Bridge
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Petrified Field
14x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Strip Mine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Hollow
Planeswalker (2)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Bane of Progress
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Duplicant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fierce Empath
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Regal Force
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Woodland Bellower
1x World Breaker
Instant (9)
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Constant Mists
1x Crop Rotation
1x Harrow
1x Krosan Grip
1x Momentous Fall
1x Noxious Revival
1x Realms Uncharted
Enchantment (5)
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Elemental Bond
1x Exploration
1x Greater Good
1x Sylvan Library
Sorcery (15)
1x Edge of Autumn
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Life from the Loam
1x Life's Legacy
1x Natural Order
1x Nature's Lore
1x Overwhelming Stampede
1x Rampant Growth
1x Regrowth
1x Rishkar's Expertise
1x Scapeshift
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Splendid Reclamation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Triumph of the Hordes
1x Akroma's Memorial
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Expedition Map
1x Mox Diamond
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Zuran Orb
Maybeboard
Sorcery (5)
1x Into the North
1x Reap and Sow
1x Restore
1x Seasons Past
1x Three Visits
Creature (5)
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Garruk's Packleader
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Wayward Swordtooth
Instant(3)
1x Hunter's Insight
1x Natural Affinity
1x Worldly Tutor
Artifact (1)
1x Mana Crypt
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Now that you talk about Nylea and Kamahl, I have a different perspective on Rhonas. I was just looking at new tech and thinking he seems powerful, but I hadn't made the comparison to those two cards, which would obviously be much better than Rhonas. Does anyone have experience with Nylea or is the effect unneeded? I have a lot of games in with the deck, but have never even considered Nylea in it. Kamahl, on the other hand, has actually been in my deck at one point, but I cut him because he was expensive to cast and activate. I've been served better by Craterhoof, Overwhelming Stampede, and Triumph of the Hordes, and I'm not sure I need a 4th finisher in the deck. His secondary ability is similar to what Natural Affinity can do, but more expensive. When I ran Natural Affinity, the times where I had it in hand and it lined up with someone else wrath were few and far between. I think I used it once to give a Craterhoof trigger a boost, but I never got to live the dream so I cut it. Outside of getting someone, I never found it useful.
How much ramp does everyone run? After many games I've become partial to the two mana ramp vs. Cultivate, Skyshroud Claim and the ilk. Now that I've switched to Snow-Covered Forests, I can run Into the North, which can also grab Dark Depths. Into the North is an easy card to slot in over Rampant Growth, but I'm wondering if I keep Rampant Growth and bring in Into the North over something else?
I appreciate the feed back. I'm always curious to hear other peoples experiences with cards, even if it doesn't line up with my own. It always gives me context of the cards in situations I haven't been in or considered.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
I'll agree that Noxious Revival is a very good card and not one I'd look to cut. Instant speed, manaless recursion that can also be used to mess with opponents graveyard/topdeck shenanigans is powerful, and with the amount of card draw we can get, the card disadvantage isn't that major. In general, my cheap green recursion package is two of Noxious Revival, Regrowth and Eternal Witness and in Titania, Regrowth is the one that doesn't make the cut for me - EW is tutorable and can be fed into Eldritch Evolution, fuels Cradle etc. (I also have Seasons Past as my big recursion spell).
For the new cards, Wayward Swordtooth doesn't really impress me. Even with the City's Blessing, the body isn't that useful and 3 mana for an Exploration isn't great (I mean, we can get double the effect for that cost). With Azusa, Exploration and Oracle already in, I'd probably prefer a cheap ramp spell to this. Likewise, I'm not really sure what Rhonas the Indomitable or the other similar effects really offer to the deck. Buffing 1 creature is rather meh and again, the body on its own is pretty insignificant when we have 5/3s on tap.
One card I've been looking at again is Food Chain. In the past I've felt its a little clunky, but my deck is a fair bit more streamlined now, and I've got more ways of actually winning on the spot with the combo rather than sitting there fore a turn hoping no-one wraths compared to when I last considered the card, so 'm tempted to put it in. I'd probably benefit from another way of finding Command Beacon so Sylvan Scrying will probably be back in. Of course, when combined with the ramp I mentioned earlier, thats 5 cards I need to cut....
It looks like we're running similar if not identical ramp suites. I don't think I'm actually running any ramp in the 2 slot (unless you count Cobra and STE) since there isn't really anything in particular I'm trying to do on 4 that would make me want to ramp past 3.
My biggest issue with Food Chain is that I don't see it getting me from the early game "setup" phase to the midgame "draw a lot of cards" phase because it can't be used to cast most of the card advantage engines.
By the way, I love this deck. It has incredible recovery speed after board wipes and can be packed with a surprising amount of removal too. It's totally out of the ordinary for mono-G and a ton of fun to play.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
How do you guys feel about burst draw vs. incremental draw in Titania?
I feel like I have enough draw cards in the deck and my current draw suite is this...
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Elemental Bond
1x Greater Good
1x Sylvan Library
1x Momentous Fall
1x Life's Legacy
1x Rishkar's Expertise
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Regal Force
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
I've been considering Garruk's Packleader, but I'm not sure if his incremental effect is better than anything I'm currently running at the moment. I like that most of my one time use draw almost always hits 5 cards right away. With Garruk's Packleader, ideally you'd want him out before Titania, so when she starts to do her thing you start to net some cards, but unfortunately they have the same cmc. Elemental Bond works because it comes down on turn two or three and is ready to go when Titania hits the board.
Am I evaluating this guy correctly or am I overvaluing some of the other draw spells? I feel like I'm at the right number of draw effects in the deck so I'm probably looking at replacing something if I add in the Packleader. What do you guys think?
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG