There are cards which I don't understand why you run. Greenwarden of Murasa? Noxious Revival? And can you even cast Ulamog in your deck? I also don't like Woodland Bellower since it doesn't fetch you a big variety of things, so you could try replacing it for Traverse the Ulvenwald.
I also think you can give up Buried Ruin unless you run more cards like Expedition Map.
Don't you run out of forests sometimes? I run 15, less fetching effects than you, and it's already happened that my basics have run out.
If you're running craterhoof, I suggest running Tooth and Nail and Avenger of Zendikar. Avenger is a spectacular card here anyways since his plants get so many counters, and T&N is a very flexible card.
Sorry, I don't have much more ideas of what to cut. Your list is pretty tight.
I think most of my feelings mirror PhroX's.
Greenwarden is just a big Eternal Witness. The deck produces plenty of mana so getting him down isn't usually a problem. People know to target key permanents like Zuran Orb, Greater Good, Concordant Crossroad so it's nice to be able to fish things out of the graveyard. It's also nice to grab cards back flipped off dredging a life from the loam.
Noxious Revival is a way to protect power cards that tend to end up in the graveyard like Life from the Loam, Command Beacon, or really anything. It's about the only way to protect my assets on my opponents turn.
I guess I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't be able to cast Ulamog in a ramp deck with 43 lands. He doesn't even require colorless land. The reason I run him over other eldrazi is that he can end the game a lot more quickly and he doesn't shuffle my graveyard back in to my library. I've cut back on a lot of targeted removal, but the fact that Ulamog exiles two made him too attractive to cut.
Woodland Bellower can't fetch much, but what it can grab is pretty important. Rumanap Excavator, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Eternal Witness are all very powerful card in the deck.
Buried Ruin is nice to have around for Crucible and especially Zuran Orb. I could cut a land to fit some of the cards in question, but I like having ways to protect key pieces of going off.
I've ran Avenger in the past and Avenger does what this deck already does except worse. Titania produces an army of tokens that are already magnitudes larger than Avenger tokens start out. I just never felt like I needed Avenger to win the game.
Tooth and Nail is nice for another tutor effect, but I've felt like loading up on more card draw has been better for me. Tooth is great if you can grab Hoof to finish the game, but if you're grabbing anything other than big finishers it's a pretty expensive card.
So I know I asked for some suggestions and then promptly shot them all down. I'm not trying to be difficult, but expressing why it's so hard for me to find room in the deck haha. I appreciate all the discussion.
I hadn't actually looked at your list when I replied to shermanido, but having done so I am somewhat inclined to side with him on Greenwarden of Murasa not being great in the deck - you're not running Birthing Pod or Eldritch Evolution, so you haven't got the line of saccing Titania (or another CMC 5 creature) into him and as such, while it's not a bad card by any means, I can't see much justification for running him over Seasons Past in the CMC6 recursion slot (even with those cards, I'd lean towards SP being better, but without, there's no real contest in my books).
Also, as a minor change, if you can get one, Three Visits is strictly better than Rampant Growth in a mono-G deck.
Any other Titania player players thinking about World Shaper?
The effects, particularly the second one (a second Splendid Reclamation, which is a bonkers card for us), are strong. The problem is ensuring he dies when we want him to and my instincts say it's going to be too difficult. I've got Greater Good as a repeatable sac outlet, Eldritch Evolution, Natural order, Life's Legacy and Momentous Fall as one shot effects, plus Beast Within if I'm desperate (well, and my board wipes, but they don't really let me do broken stuff), but I doubt that'll quite be enough, and I can't see anything else I'd want to run. Which is a pity.
World Shaper definitely seems worth.
I'm considering running Genesis to go along with it, since that way we can reanimate our Splendid Reclamation, which is awesome. We can also let Titania go to the yard so that we can get her back to hand, essentially a Command Beacon that costs 2G at upkeep, which seems very nice considering we rely on her so heavily to win.
I suggest running Claws of Gix first and foremost, since it's free itself and the sac only costs 1, plus it lets us sac lands which is most important.
Another card I thought of is Golden Guardian. It's a 4 power creature, which can draw us cards from our card engines. Its ability can be activated before a removal effect hits, so that Titania dies / goes to the command zone before nasty things happen to it. After that it becomes a land that produces GG, or lets us pay mana for a fat creature. It's definitely not amazing, but if you're in a rough spot and Titania isn't available, it's a decent defense.
He definitely seems worth testing, but you're probably right in that it will be difficult to control when he dies, but it may not matter. I may slot him in over Regal Force or Kamahl, Fist of Krosa to give him a shot. I can see some awesome things happening with him with the right set up. I think his ceiling is very high, we'll just have to determine how low his floor is.
While I can see World Shaper being pretty good, I think the setup is too much work to be worth it, especially considering that he's a killable creature. I would much rather have Splendid Reclamation, though I suppose it could make for a half-decent second copy.
Isn't Zuran Orb just generally better than Claws of Gix? Same mana cost, free activation. It can't send a Titania back to the command zone or get you some life before a board wipe, but I still think the Orb is generally better. Again, I suppose one could run both.
I ran Claws of Gix for awhile with no real need to sac other permanents, with the exception of one instance where I sac'd my Zuran Orb to Claws and then the Claws to themselves in response to being Mindslavered. It was just there for a redundant land sac outlet, but the more I played, the more I found I didn't really need another Zuran Orb since most of the lands I run have a way to sac themselves. Claws would be brought back just to sac World Shaper and I suppose World Breaker if you run him.
I can see some neat things happening with World Shaper, Chord of Calling, and a way to sacrifice him like Momentous Fall, Claws of Gix, or High Market. An instant speed Splended Reclamation to protect yourself from a Bojuka Bog or just for the value is pretty nice, but it seems like everyone is asking the right question, is the set up worth it? Claws of Gix and High Market aren't going to do much on their own.
So this is where I'm at for now. I cut Kamahl for World Shaper, Lotus Vale for High Market, and Natural Affinity for Claws of Gix. I don't know if this is right, but I've been on the fence about Kamahl for awhile. I don't think I've used him as a finisher since I added him to the list. Lotus Vale has been mediocre. Sometimes it's nice to untap with Garruk or Deserted Temple, but it's not usually a land I want to see in an opening hand since it doesn't actually ramp and opens you up to getting strip mined. Natural Affinity has the potential to be super powerful, but I don't think I've every blown someone out in response to a wrath since I've had it in the list. Most often it just accelerates my Gaea's Cradle or pumps up a Craterhoof trigger.
Natural Affinity could slot back in in place of something else. I'm also considering cutting a utility land or two for a couple more forests. Every once and awhile I run out of forests to grab if I'm in a game with a Crucible/Azusa engine going.
Dunno how it'll work overall, but if you're looking to see how well World Shaper performs, those seem like sensible swaps. While I quite like Kamahl, he's never performed nearly as well as other overruns such as Craterhoof Behemoth or Triumph of the Hordes when it comes to seeing out a game, and the land animation is more cute than effective. Lotus Vale doesn't have the ramp payoff of Scorched Ruins and I've never really felt the risk to be worth it (even if we get elementals, being 3 mana down when we don't want to be thanks to a Strip Mine ain't great when there's no huge payoff for it). Natural Affinity is a low floor high ceiling card - when it works, it will basically win the game on the spot, but there's plenty of times when it sits there doing nothing - so I can understand swapping it out. I didn't like Claws of Gix on it's own - I do not want to have to pay mana to sac my lands - but now that there's at least something else that's good to sac to it, it's worth a test, and High Market's rarely a bad card to have.
As an aside, I realised it's been a long time since I put my list up here, so this is what I'm currently running. One day I might remember to pick up a Drownyard Temple (seriously, I've been forgetting to buy that card since the day it was spoiled...).
I probably won't run Ghalta because I don't feel the need for big generic beaters, but he sure looks fun!
Between Akroma's Memorial and Eldrazi Monument, I'd take Akroma's Memorial. Haste and to a lesser extent, flying and trample, are really what we're looking for in this deck. In my experience the way it plays out is a massive surge of tokens coming in to play at once and haste is key to finishing people off. Eldrazi Monument is going to be better in a deck like Omnath, Locus of Rage where you get some value out of sacrificing your elementals.
Ghalta is a card I want to give a try. While a beatsick isn't really what the deck needs, he's a ridiculously cost efficient beatstick, and synergises well with the various "draw cards equal to power" I run. Not certain how well it will go, but if I can pick one up, I think it's worth a test.
And definitely Akroma's Memorial out of the two. Indestructibility isn't that useful - we can recover from board wipes really easily - whereas haste is incredibly valuable given how quickly we can get power onto the board if we go all out. 7 mana is a lot for a backup Concordant Crossroads with some upside, but if you feel the need for another such effect, it's a good card.
Scapeshift can result in some powerful plays, but it is not necessary. I'm usually happy to see it since it allows me to trade in some lands for better utility, but the deck would run fine with out it. Alternatives are Wave of Vitriol and Natural Balance.
Dark Depths and Thespian Stage is another unnecessary combo. I'm running them because I have them, but again you don't need Marit Lage to win. Most of the time you're just going to overrun your opponents with 5/3s.
Command Beacon is definitely a must have. It lets you permanently avoid the command tax. Sac Command Beacon, put Titania in to your hand, cast her for 5, Titania enters the battlefield, return Command Beacon to play.
Petrified Field is probably not necessary, but you're going to want to run this one. A lot of your lands are going to go to your graveyard both in and out of your control. Petrified Field acts like a 5/3 Eternal Witness.
City of Traitors can be replaced by Crystal Vein or Ancient Tomb. Sol lands aren't necessary, they just add a little velocity to the deck. Scorched Ruins is in the same category. It ramps you ahead and creates some 5/3s if Titania is in play, but it can easily be replaced with a Myriad Landscape, Blighted Woodland, or a Panorama if you want more sacrifice lands.
Natural Affinity, as mentioned in previous posts, is a low floor/high ceiling card. A lot of the time Natural Affinity will sit in your hand and do nothing. But the things it can do for you are very powerful. You can get a massive boost to a Craterhoof Behemoth trigger by turning all your lands in to creatures, it can boost the cards you draw off Shamanic Revelation, and the most powerful thing it can do is Armageddon the field. If you cast it in response to a board wipe with Titania on the field, all your opponent's lands die because they are creatures, and Titania sees all your lands die so you'll be left with a 5/3 for every land of yours that went to the yard.
Hi there, I was reading the thread for a bit.. and was looking to build a titania list as wel... I have a few questions about cards before I go and build the deck and get cards for it and all that.. ^^
How much of a must is Scapeshift, the reason I am asking is that I don't own one and they got pretty darned expensive..
Is the Dark depths + thespian's stage needed for the deck, also due to price tag on Dark depths and not owning either I am asking..
Those are the main concerns lets say for me, although for the lands I also don't own Command Beacon, Petrified Field, City of Traitors nor Scorched Ruins, are they really relevant and needed or can I sub them with other lands (albeit less good probably..)
There are many more cards I am missing from what I see, but for now I wanna mostly know wether those are all needed and if the deck can work without them...
While all the cards you list there are good, none are essential for the deck, so if you don't already have them, I wouldn't suggest buying them when you first build the deck. If you find you're enjoying the deck than look to them as long term upgrades but for a starter, I'd invest elsewhere.
Overall I'd look to get the core of the deck - which I regard as "sac lands, get tokens, draw cards" - up and running before putting a Scapeshift in there.
Lands - Get the fetchlands. While things like Panoramas and Grasslands can work, getting the full set of 4 proper fetches is a significant boost to the decks performance. Although you still need a few more of the slower ones to support them (Evolving Wilds etc.), as 4 isn't really enough. Some self sacrificing utility lands are nice, but none of the expensive ones (e.g. Wasteland) are close to being essential, and there are plenty of cheap options.
Crucible of Worlds - yes, there's a creature version, yes you still want both. Especially when combined with the previous.
Ramp - Your general's a 5 drop, and you don't want to wait for T5 for her. Some of the ramp we want is cheap but there's a few more expensive things in there like Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb (which is much more important that things like City of Traitors even with the Titania synergy), plus Carpet of Flowers which can sometimes be hard to find. If you're on a budget, the ways of getting non-basic lands become less important.
Extra land drops - spells like Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Exploration seems to have really gone up in price recently, but are very strong in a deck like this.
Repeatable land sacrifice outlets - fortunately nice and cheap, but Zuran Orb, Sylvan Safekeeper and Fortitude are integral to the deck. There are some powerful ways of killing off a lot of your lands at once, which can be nice, but the controllable, reusable sac outlets are what keep you going.
Card draw - Not too expensive overall, with Greater Good and Sylvan Library probably the worst offenders (the former is an absolute must have, while the latter is merely very good), but being able to turn my board state into card draw on a level that few things short of Ad Nauseam can match is what wins me most of my games.
Tutors - while I don't suggest running that many creatures, those we want are typically very good, so being able to got get them with a Green Sun's Zenith or Worldly Tutor is extremely powerful.
A wincon or two - Craterhoof Behemoth and Triumph of the Hordes are the best options, though there are other alternatives. But whatever you go for, you need a reliable way to see out games
Some general recursion - Eternal Witness, Regrowth, Seasons Past etc. There's a number of good options to chose from, and I'd try to get 2-3 of these kind of cards in there. You've got good cards in your deck, you want to cast them more than once.
Some removal - Nature's Claim and Beast Within are essential, as they're simply great cards, add in a few more options to taste
The stuff I've listed here are always going to be good, and once you've got that in place, you'll see how the deck performs overall. Then you can start looking to put in things like Scapeshift which can be exceptionally powerful and splashy, but 1) cost a lot and 2) don't form part of the core engine the deck works off. Although I will note that the more I tweak my deck, the more I'm moving towards increasing redundancy for the core of the deck, and the less I'm using the more esoteric splashy cards.
I agree with this. I've cut a lot of the big impact cards and ramped up my card draw with cards like Momentous Fall, Shamanic Revelation, and Rishkar's Expertise. I'm considering Garruk's Packleader to complement Elemental Bond. I cut and then put back in Fierce Empath to increase redundancy with my finishers and am also looking at Overwhelming Stampede as yet another finisher.
Another piece of recursion that I've really liked is Noxious Revival. It's a great way to protect a key cards in your graveyard since you will most likely draw some hate.
On a different topic, I got in a few games with World Shaper. I have yet to trigger his ability, but I'm already starting to lean towards cutting him. The cards I need to make him work (High Market, Claws of Gix) don't really do enough on their own. Cutting World Shaper, High Market, and Claws will leave me room to slot in a Maze of Ith and either more ramp with Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, or some finishers in Overwhelming Stampede and Natural Affinity.
Ramunap Excavator is a must, but the good news is that it's relatively cheap and from a newer set so it should be widely available. Fortitude and Carpet of Flowers are from Urza's Saga so they may be more difficult to find, but they may also perform better or worse depending on your meta. Wordly Tutor is great, but you can use things like Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling, Woodland Bellower, and Fierce Empath to get similar results.
Mana Crypt is not essential by any means, but is always a nice bonus to a deck if you have one to spare.
Green tends to be weak to flyers so cards like Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, and Constant Mist all can help fill this gap. Maze and Chasm are nice because you can Crop Rotate for them or land tutor for them. Constant Mist is just a repeatable fog with some value attached. I would not go for Sporefrog or Spikeweaver since we don't have much creature recursion. Those cards are better suited for a deck like Meren.
Since people have been active recently on this thread I figure I'd give a quick update to changes in my list, which can be found in my Deck Lists spoiler if you're interested.
I was giving World Shaper a try and had added High Market and Claws of Gix to give myself some sac outlets to control when World Shaper dies. After a couple games I never got the combo together, but each card really isn't that great on its own so I opted to cut those cards. World Shaper loses a lot of appeal when you don't get to control when he dies and High Market really does nothing for the deck. Claws of Gix isn't bad, but I've run it in the past and haven't been terribly impressed by it.
To fill these three spots I added a Maze of Ith to help deal with flyers. I've been beaten down a time or two by Atraxa and others and it makes me want to pad my defenses a little bit. The other two spots were filled by Sol Ring and Overwhelming Stampede. Sol Ring will help out my early game acceleration and also helps with my mana base since High Market is being replaced by a non mana producing land in Maze of Ith. Overwhelming Stampede fills World Shaper's spot, which was originally Kamahl, Fist of Krosa's spot. Kamahl was pretty expensive for a finisher since I generally wanted to cast and activate him in the same turn. If he came down before I could activate him he was almost always removed on sight. Overwhelming Stampede fills in nicely here since it only costs 5 and can potentially generate a lot more damage than Kamahl could if I have an Ulamog or Marit Lage on the field. 10/10 or 20/20 trample to all creatures is no joke.
Hey guys, just stopping by to say that I think I finally settled on Titania as my aggro commander of choice. Her flexibility is nuts, even on a $150 budget like I have, and Constant Mists is an addicting card when your group is mostly battlecruisers. Just beat Gishath, Sun's Avatar because he swung all out with 20 dinos, I Misted and then sacced all my lands before my upkeep and swung in with 9 tokens while he was tapped out. Being able to pack card advantage, tokens, and semi-combo options besides having more resources than the opponent in the form of lands is so much fun!
Titania is awesome and I'm glad you're enjoying her!
I'd start with getting yourself a Command Beacon. This land lets you permanently negate the command tax by putting Titania in to your hand and then returning Command Beacon to the field when you cast her. It's not too unreasonable at $8.00 or so.
You're running enough basic forests to justify Gaea's Touch, but I'd switch that Burgeoning out for an Exploration if you can get one. Burgeoning is pretty awesome early game, but later on when you get a Ramunap Excavator or Crucible of Worlds if you get a hold of one, you're going to want Exploration type effects. The problem with Burgeoning is that it says the lands must be played from you hand. Exploration, Oracle of Mul Daya, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Gaea's Touch all don't care where the lands come from. One of the best feelings is playing 3, 4, or even 5 lands out of your graveyard in a turn!
I understand you're on a budget, but try and pick up the original fetch lands. The ones reprinted in Kahns of Tarkir are reasonably priced. You can also use the Panorama lands (Jund, Bant, Naya) in the mean time. Tectonic Edge is another cheap pick up that will provide you with some utility.
That's a great starting point, thanks! Even adding a few of those lands will still be within my price range (Tectonic Edge and Commander's Beacon), and I'll work toward fetches and Exploration next.
Hey guys, just stopping by to say that I think I finally settled on Titania as my aggro commander of choice. Her flexibility is nuts, even on a $150 budget like I have, and Constant Mists is an addicting card when your group is mostly battlecruisers. Just beat Gishath, Sun's Avatar because he swung all out with 20 dinos, I Misted and then sacced all my lands before my upkeep and swung in with 9 tokens while he was tapped out. Being able to pack card advantage, tokens, and semi-combo options besides having more resources than the opponent in the form of lands is so much fun!
Any cards that are a sin not to have in the list or suggestions on where to start upgrading when I have the chance would be great!
Certainly looks like a good start - both the list you've got there and your upgrade order. I've a few minor suggestions:
Until you get the good fetchlands, I'd probably run a few more of the bad ones, whether Panoramas or the old "slow fetches" (Grasslands & co.). You do want to have a good density of self-sacrificing lands, especially those that don't leave you down a land. Panoramas are probably better, as they can tap for mana (albeit colourless) immediately even if they cost the extra to sacrifice.
Groundskeeper is plain bad. I'm pretty sure every one of us Titiania players had it in their list to start with, and we've all cut it pretty quickly having actually tried it in game. Only being able to get basics and only getting it back to hand instead of play means that the card is just too low impact to be worth a slot.
I'd be tempted to cut an "overrun" or two. Right now you've got Siege Behemoth, Thunderfoot Baloth, Overwhelming Stampede, Triumph of the HordesandBeastmaster Ascension which feels like overkill to me. If you do like having plenty of redundancy, then swapping one (probably the Ascension or Stampede) for another creature tutor gives you a lot more flexibility. If you're worried about budget Eldritch Evolution is cheap, and you have a good number of creatures that can be turned into a Thunderfoot Baloth or Siege Behemoth when going to for the kill (as well as all the cheap utility stuff if you need it - an elemental into Sylvan Safekeeper is often a very solid play).
This is a point some of the others here might disagree with me on, as I seem to be alone in liking the card, but even without the crazy bomb non-basics like Cradle, I'd run Reap and Sow over Skyshroud Claim. The problem with the latter is that going from 4 to 6 lands isn't that much more useful than going from 4 to 5 - both ways we get Titania the next turn - while Reap and Sow ensures that when we do, we're certain to have a fetchland - even if it's just an Evolving Wilds - in the graveyard for Titania to recurr, which gets you to the 6 lands and nets you a 5/3. And as a bonus you can add a Sinkhole to R&S if you've a bit of mana spare.
Move Greater Good to the top of your upgrade list. It's the best card in the deck.
I completely forgot about Greater Good. @PhroX is right that you need to get a hold of one of those ASAP. It usually results in you drawing 20 cards and winning the game.
Reap and Sow is always something that has caught my eye, but I've never been able to find room for. I wouldn't mind giving the card a shot myself if I can find a place to slot it in. It could probably take Ramapant Growth's spot.
Reap and Sow doesn't quite fit into the same slot as Rampant Growth, so that swap would depend more on when you need the early ramp or not. Getting a good amount of CMC 2 and less acceleration is great as it will really kickstart the deck - it's actually an area I've been trying to find a little more space for in my list, as a slow start is rather depressing. On the other hand, R&S (and Tempt with Discovery which is usually the same effect, at least once people have played against it a couple of times) fall into the more expensive category where mana acceleration is usually less valuable. If you do want spells that fall into the >2 CMC ramp camp, then those two fit the overall aims of the deck very well - guaranteeing Titania with a fecthland the next turn - plus being able to grab any land into play untapped later on. With the exception of Crop Rotation, the other ways of getting non basics either put them in your hand, which can be awkward if you need one of your strong lands partway through an explosive turn and have already made your land drop, or into play tapped, which is pretty much the same effect, with the additional downside of giving your opponents a turn to Strip Mine the land before you can use it.
It's certainly not a fancy card, but I've found it fits well into what my deck is trying to do, and would always recommend it for Titania over a similarly costed spell that just ramps, even if said spell would get you more mana overall (such as Skyshroud Claim).
Without the craziness of being able to get Gaea's Cradle, I'd probably drop down to only running one of Reap and Sow and Tempt with Discovery, though I'm not sure which I'd go for. Tempt definitely has the highest upside when opponents get greedy, but at the same time, I do appreciate the simplicity of Reap and Sow just getting the land I want without any chance of opponents coming up with unexpected land based shenanigans (there are occasions when I really don't want people getting Strip Mines or Wastelands), and the entwine can be a nice bonus (in practice it's more like a kicker than an entwine, as there's really only one option you'll ever chose when you spend 4 mana - if you really want to kill a land and can only afford to cast it with one mode, you're going to be better off just getting a Strip Mine or similar).
And if you're only getting 20 cards off of Greater Good, you're doing it wrong. It usually draws my entire deck (oh Splendid Reclamation how I love thee...)
As an aside, I realised recently that my deck actually has a way of going infinite now. I do need to draw the entire deck first - which GG helps with - but if for some reason several hundred power of hasty trampling infecting Elementals aren't enough (or if I've had to go off post combat, e.g. it was a Hunter's Insight that got me the cards I needed), then I can set up a loop. With a Lotus Cobra, Titania, Protector of Argoth and Zuran Orb in play, sacrifice all my lands and Splendid Reclamation them back (giving me 40 odd mana and tokens, and twice that in life). Then Beast Within an opponent's permanent (it doesn't matter what) and cast Seasons Past, getting back Splendid Reclamation and Beast Within. Finally cycle Edge of Autumn to redraw Seasons Past. Repeat an arbitrary amount of times (getting Edge of Autumn back with Seasons Past as well) to give you infinite life, mana and tokens while turning all your opponents' permanents into beasts and leaving Seasons Past in your library so you don't deck yourself on the next turn if you need to wait it out (with Noxious Revival as backup in case someone finds a way of milling it).
Certainly looks like a good start - both the list you've got there and your upgrade order. I've a few minor suggestions:
Until you get the good fetchlands, I'd probably run a few more of the bad ones, whether Panoramas or the old "slow fetches" (Grasslands & co.). You do want to have a good density of self-sacrificing lands, especially those that don't leave you down a land. Panoramas are probably better, as they can tap for mana (albeit colourless) immediately even if they cost the extra to sacrifice.
Groundskeeper is plain bad. I'm pretty sure every one of us Titiania players had it in their list to start with, and we've all cut it pretty quickly having actually tried it in game. Only being able to get basics and only getting it back to hand instead of play means that the card is just too low impact to be worth a slot.
I'd be tempted to cut an "overrun" or two. Right now you've got Siege Behemoth, Thunderfoot Baloth, Overwhelming Stampede, Triumph of the HordesandBeastmaster Ascension which feels like overkill to me. If you do like having plenty of redundancy, then swapping one (probably the Ascension or Stampede) for another creature tutor gives you a lot more flexibility. If you're worried about budget Eldritch Evolution is cheap, and you have a good number of creatures that can be turned into a Thunderfoot Baloth or Siege Behemoth when going to for the kill (as well as all the cheap utility stuff if you need it - an elemental into Sylvan Safekeeper is often a very solid play).
This is a point some of the others here might disagree with me on, as I seem to be alone in liking the card, but even without the crazy bomb non-basics like Cradle, I'd run Reap and Sow over Skyshroud Claim. The problem with the latter is that going from 4 to 6 lands isn't that much more useful than going from 4 to 5 - both ways we get Titania the next turn - while Reap and Sow ensures that when we do, we're certain to have a fetchland - even if it's just an Evolving Wilds - in the graveyard for Titania to recurr, which gets you to the 6 lands and nets you a 5/3. And as a bonus you can add a Sinkhole to R&S if you've a bit of mana spare.
Move Greater Good to the top of your upgrade list. It's the best card in the deck.
Perfect, this helps a ton as well! I was actually trying to hunt down a few Panoramas last night to start putting the deck together, as it is annoying to be caught without a sac outlet (only happened once, but resulted in quite a long game). The extra draw from Greater Good and Life's Legacy should help with that. Also got to find out how amazing Gaea's Cradle (Itlimoc in my case) is when I went for the kill and was tapping for 12 mana while I only had a single land on the field!
After more testing, I managed to get Groundskeeper out and immediately wanted to cut her, as well as Beastmaster Ascension. The former was useless and too much mana to work with, and the latter drew a ton of hate and still didn't finish off the game too well, while being vulnerable to removal as opposed to the quick pumps. Eldritch Evolution sounds like a great swap for one of these, and I'll have to try Reap and Sow as well! Wish I had Crucible of Worlds, as there have been many times I think "If only I could cycle these lands from my graveyard," but with more card draw and Life From the Loam, Excavator, and Splendid Reclamation, I'll have that thought less.
Has anyone tried out Path of Discovery? I cut World Shaper pretty quick, but haven't drawn the enchantment yet. Seems like it could help with filtering, but part of me wants to replace it with Fyndhorn Elves for more acceleration.
Edit @Phrox: That is also an insane infinite, and even if it isn't completely reliable, I absolutely have to try it sometime! I was trying to find a game ending combo to fit in the deck that wasn't Food Chain! Are you alright with me adding it to my deck description on tappedout as a reminder to me with credit to you? Just asking because it isn't a private deck, so others could potentially see the idea.
Path of Discovery is interesting, but I don't think it will make the cut since it won't actually put cards in your hand except for land. The moment a card appears on top of your library that you want, Path immediately loses a lot of value. The +1/+1 counters are nice, but I think we can do better.
That is a pretty sweet combo with Seasons Past. What I really like about it is that every other card you need to go off you want in the deck anyway. You don't need to go out of your way to make it work, like I found with World Shaper. You can accidentally fall in to this combo, and if you don't each piece is useful anyway.
I think most of my feelings mirror PhroX's.
Greenwarden is just a big Eternal Witness. The deck produces plenty of mana so getting him down isn't usually a problem. People know to target key permanents like Zuran Orb, Greater Good, Concordant Crossroad so it's nice to be able to fish things out of the graveyard. It's also nice to grab cards back flipped off dredging a life from the loam.
Noxious Revival is a way to protect power cards that tend to end up in the graveyard like Life from the Loam, Command Beacon, or really anything. It's about the only way to protect my assets on my opponents turn.
I guess I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't be able to cast Ulamog in a ramp deck with 43 lands. He doesn't even require colorless land. The reason I run him over other eldrazi is that he can end the game a lot more quickly and he doesn't shuffle my graveyard back in to my library. I've cut back on a lot of targeted removal, but the fact that Ulamog exiles two made him too attractive to cut.
Woodland Bellower can't fetch much, but what it can grab is pretty important. Rumanap Excavator, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Eternal Witness are all very powerful card in the deck.
Buried Ruin is nice to have around for Crucible and especially Zuran Orb. I could cut a land to fit some of the cards in question, but I like having ways to protect key pieces of going off.
I've ran Avenger in the past and Avenger does what this deck already does except worse. Titania produces an army of tokens that are already magnitudes larger than Avenger tokens start out. I just never felt like I needed Avenger to win the game.
Tooth and Nail is nice for another tutor effect, but I've felt like loading up on more card draw has been better for me. Tooth is great if you can grab Hoof to finish the game, but if you're grabbing anything other than big finishers it's a pretty expensive card.
So I know I asked for some suggestions and then promptly shot them all down. I'm not trying to be difficult, but expressing why it's so hard for me to find room in the deck haha. I appreciate all the discussion.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Also, as a minor change, if you can get one, Three Visits is strictly better than Rampant Growth in a mono-G deck.
I would love a Three Visits, I just haven’t felt like spending the cash on one yet.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
The effects, particularly the second one (a second Splendid Reclamation, which is a bonkers card for us), are strong. The problem is ensuring he dies when we want him to and my instincts say it's going to be too difficult. I've got Greater Good as a repeatable sac outlet, Eldritch Evolution, Natural order, Life's Legacy and Momentous Fall as one shot effects, plus Beast Within if I'm desperate (well, and my board wipes, but they don't really let me do broken stuff), but I doubt that'll quite be enough, and I can't see anything else I'd want to run. Which is a pity.
I'm considering running Genesis to go along with it, since that way we can reanimate our Splendid Reclamation, which is awesome. We can also let Titania go to the yard so that we can get her back to hand, essentially a Command Beacon that costs 2G at upkeep, which seems very nice considering we rely on her so heavily to win.
I suggest running Claws of Gix first and foremost, since it's free itself and the sac only costs 1, plus it lets us sac lands which is most important.
Another card I thought of is Golden Guardian. It's a 4 power creature, which can draw us cards from our card engines. Its ability can be activated before a removal effect hits, so that Titania dies / goes to the command zone before nasty things happen to it. After that it becomes a land that produces GG, or lets us pay mana for a fat creature. It's definitely not amazing, but if you're in a rough spot and Titania isn't available, it's a decent defense.
EDIT: Also, High Market.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Isn't Zuran Orb just generally better than Claws of Gix? Same mana cost, free activation. It can't send a Titania back to the command zone or get you some life before a board wipe, but I still think the Orb is generally better. Again, I suppose one could run both.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I can see some neat things happening with World Shaper, Chord of Calling, and a way to sacrifice him like Momentous Fall, Claws of Gix, or High Market. An instant speed Splended Reclamation to protect yourself from a Bojuka Bog or just for the value is pretty nice, but it seems like everyone is asking the right question, is the set up worth it? Claws of Gix and High Market aren't going to do much on their own.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Natural Affinity could slot back in in place of something else. I'm also considering cutting a utility land or two for a couple more forests. Every once and awhile I run out of forests to grab if I'm in a game with a Crucible/Azusa engine going.
Let me know what you guys think.
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
Land (43)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Blighted Woodland
1x Buried Ruin
1x Command Beacon
1x Crystal Vein
1x Dark Depths
1x Deserted Temple
1x Drownyard Temple
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dust Bowl
1x Evolving Wilds
13x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Havenwood Battleground
1x Hickory Woodlot
1x High Market
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mosswort Bridge
1x Petrified Field
1x Scorched Ruins
1x Strip Mine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Bane of Progress
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Duplicant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fierce Empath
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Regal Force
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Woodland Bellower
1x World Breaker
1x World Shaper
Instant (9)
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Constant Mists
1x Crop Rotation
1x Harrow
1x Krosan Grip
1x Momentous Fall
1x Noxious Revival
1x Realms Uncharted
Enchantment (5)
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Elemental Bond
1x Exploration
1x Greater Good
1x Sylvan Library
1x Edge of Autumn
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Life from the Loam
1x Life's Legacy
1x Natural Order
1x Nature's Lore
1x Rampant Growth
1x Regrowth
1x Rishkar's Expertise
1x Scapeshift
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Splendid Reclamation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Tempt with Discovery
1x Triumph of the Hordes
Artifact (7)
1x Akroma's Memorial
1x Claws of Gix
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Mox Diamond
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Zuran Orb
Planeswalker (2)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
Maybe (6)
1x Forest
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Natural Affinity
1x Overwhelming Stampede
1x Maze of Ith
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
As an aside, I realised it's been a long time since I put my list up here, so this is what I'm currently running. One day I might remember to pick up a Drownyard Temple (seriously, I've been forgetting to buy that card since the day it was spoiled...).
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Blighted Woodland
1x Buried Ruin
1x Command Beacon
1x Crystal Vein
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dust Bowl
1x Evolving Wilds
16x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x Havenwood Battleground
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Petrified Field
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Scorched Ruins
1x Strip Mine
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
Artifact
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Mana Crypt
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sol Ring
1x Zuran Orb
1x All Is Dust
1x Edge of Autumn
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Life from the Loam
1x Life's Legacy
1x Natural Order
1x Nature's Lore
1x Reap and Sow
1x Scapeshift
1x Seasons Past
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Splendid Reclamation
1x Tempt with Discovery
1x Triumph of the Hordes
Creature
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Bane of Progress
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Eternal Witness
1x Garruk's Packleader
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Regal Force
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
Instant
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Constant Mists
1x Crop Rotation
1x Harrow
1x Hunter's Insight
1x Krosan Grip
1x Momentous Fall
1x Natural Affinity
1x Nature's Claim
1x Noxious Revival
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Worldly Tutor
Enchantment
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Elemental Bond
1x Exploration
1x Fortitude
1x Greater Good
1x Hall of Gemstone
1x Mirri's Guile
1x Parallel Lives
1x Sylvan Library
Between Akroma's Memorial and Eldrazi Monument, I'd take Akroma's Memorial. Haste and to a lesser extent, flying and trample, are really what we're looking for in this deck. In my experience the way it plays out is a massive surge of tokens coming in to play at once and haste is key to finishing people off. Eldrazi Monument is going to be better in a deck like Omnath, Locus of Rage where you get some value out of sacrificing your elementals.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
And definitely Akroma's Memorial out of the two. Indestructibility isn't that useful - we can recover from board wipes really easily - whereas haste is incredibly valuable given how quickly we can get power onto the board if we go all out. 7 mana is a lot for a backup Concordant Crossroads with some upside, but if you feel the need for another such effect, it's a good card.
Dark Depths and Thespian Stage is another unnecessary combo. I'm running them because I have them, but again you don't need Marit Lage to win. Most of the time you're just going to overrun your opponents with 5/3s.
Command Beacon is definitely a must have. It lets you permanently avoid the command tax. Sac Command Beacon, put Titania in to your hand, cast her for 5, Titania enters the battlefield, return Command Beacon to play.
Petrified Field is probably not necessary, but you're going to want to run this one. A lot of your lands are going to go to your graveyard both in and out of your control. Petrified Field acts like a 5/3 Eternal Witness.
City of Traitors can be replaced by Crystal Vein or Ancient Tomb. Sol lands aren't necessary, they just add a little velocity to the deck. Scorched Ruins is in the same category. It ramps you ahead and creates some 5/3s if Titania is in play, but it can easily be replaced with a Myriad Landscape, Blighted Woodland, or a Panorama if you want more sacrifice lands.
Natural Affinity, as mentioned in previous posts, is a low floor/high ceiling card. A lot of the time Natural Affinity will sit in your hand and do nothing. But the things it can do for you are very powerful. You can get a massive boost to a Craterhoof Behemoth trigger by turning all your lands in to creatures, it can boost the cards you draw off Shamanic Revelation, and the most powerful thing it can do is Armageddon the field. If you cast it in response to a board wipe with Titania on the field, all your opponent's lands die because they are creatures, and Titania sees all your lands die so you'll be left with a 5/3 for every land of yours that went to the yard.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
While all the cards you list there are good, none are essential for the deck, so if you don't already have them, I wouldn't suggest buying them when you first build the deck. If you find you're enjoying the deck than look to them as long term upgrades but for a starter, I'd invest elsewhere.
Overall I'd look to get the core of the deck - which I regard as "sac lands, get tokens, draw cards" - up and running before putting a Scapeshift in there.
The stuff I've listed here are always going to be good, and once you've got that in place, you'll see how the deck performs overall. Then you can start looking to put in things like Scapeshift which can be exceptionally powerful and splashy, but 1) cost a lot and 2) don't form part of the core engine the deck works off. Although I will note that the more I tweak my deck, the more I'm moving towards increasing redundancy for the core of the deck, and the less I'm using the more esoteric splashy cards.
Another piece of recursion that I've really liked is Noxious Revival. It's a great way to protect a key cards in your graveyard since you will most likely draw some hate.
On a different topic, I got in a few games with World Shaper. I have yet to trigger his ability, but I'm already starting to lean towards cutting him. The cards I need to make him work (High Market, Claws of Gix) don't really do enough on their own. Cutting World Shaper, High Market, and Claws will leave me room to slot in a Maze of Ith and either more ramp with Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, or some finishers in Overwhelming Stampede and Natural Affinity.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Mana Crypt is not essential by any means, but is always a nice bonus to a deck if you have one to spare.
Green tends to be weak to flyers so cards like Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, and Constant Mist all can help fill this gap. Maze and Chasm are nice because you can Crop Rotate for them or land tutor for them. Constant Mist is just a repeatable fog with some value attached. I would not go for Sporefrog or Spikeweaver since we don't have much creature recursion. Those cards are better suited for a deck like Meren.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
I was giving World Shaper a try and had added High Market and Claws of Gix to give myself some sac outlets to control when World Shaper dies. After a couple games I never got the combo together, but each card really isn't that great on its own so I opted to cut those cards. World Shaper loses a lot of appeal when you don't get to control when he dies and High Market really does nothing for the deck. Claws of Gix isn't bad, but I've run it in the past and haven't been terribly impressed by it.
To fill these three spots I added a Maze of Ith to help deal with flyers. I've been beaten down a time or two by Atraxa and others and it makes me want to pad my defenses a little bit. The other two spots were filled by Sol Ring and Overwhelming Stampede. Sol Ring will help out my early game acceleration and also helps with my mana base since High Market is being replaced by a non mana producing land in Maze of Ith. Overwhelming Stampede fills World Shaper's spot, which was originally Kamahl, Fist of Krosa's spot. Kamahl was pretty expensive for a finisher since I generally wanted to cast and activate him in the same turn. If he came down before I could activate him he was almost always removed on sight. Overwhelming Stampede fills in nicely here since it only costs 5 and can potentially generate a lot more damage than Kamahl could if I have an Ulamog or Marit Lage on the field. 10/10 or 20/20 trample to all creatures is no joke.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Here's the link to my list, I still have to buy it in paper and then start upgrading it with more expensive cards as time goes on: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-01-18-i-speak-for-the-trees/
Any cards that are a sin not to have in the list or suggestions on where to start upgrading when I have the chance would be great!
I'd start with getting yourself a Command Beacon. This land lets you permanently negate the command tax by putting Titania in to your hand and then returning Command Beacon to the field when you cast her. It's not too unreasonable at $8.00 or so.
You're running enough basic forests to justify Gaea's Touch, but I'd switch that Burgeoning out for an Exploration if you can get one. Burgeoning is pretty awesome early game, but later on when you get a Ramunap Excavator or Crucible of Worlds if you get a hold of one, you're going to want Exploration type effects. The problem with Burgeoning is that it says the lands must be played from you hand. Exploration, Oracle of Mul Daya, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Gaea's Touch all don't care where the lands come from. One of the best feelings is playing 3, 4, or even 5 lands out of your graveyard in a turn!
I understand you're on a budget, but try and pick up the original fetch lands. The ones reprinted in Kahns of Tarkir are reasonably priced. You can also use the Panorama lands (Jund, Bant, Naya) in the mean time. Tectonic Edge is another cheap pick up that will provide you with some utility.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Certainly looks like a good start - both the list you've got there and your upgrade order. I've a few minor suggestions:
Reap and Sow is always something that has caught my eye, but I've never been able to find room for. I wouldn't mind giving the card a shot myself if I can find a place to slot it in. It could probably take Ramapant Growth's spot.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
It's certainly not a fancy card, but I've found it fits well into what my deck is trying to do, and would always recommend it for Titania over a similarly costed spell that just ramps, even if said spell would get you more mana overall (such as Skyshroud Claim).
Without the craziness of being able to get Gaea's Cradle, I'd probably drop down to only running one of Reap and Sow and Tempt with Discovery, though I'm not sure which I'd go for. Tempt definitely has the highest upside when opponents get greedy, but at the same time, I do appreciate the simplicity of Reap and Sow just getting the land I want without any chance of opponents coming up with unexpected land based shenanigans (there are occasions when I really don't want people getting Strip Mines or Wastelands), and the entwine can be a nice bonus (in practice it's more like a kicker than an entwine, as there's really only one option you'll ever chose when you spend 4 mana - if you really want to kill a land and can only afford to cast it with one mode, you're going to be better off just getting a Strip Mine or similar).
And if you're only getting 20 cards off of Greater Good, you're doing it wrong. It usually draws my entire deck (oh Splendid Reclamation how I love thee...)
As an aside, I realised recently that my deck actually has a way of going infinite now. I do need to draw the entire deck first - which GG helps with - but if for some reason several hundred power of hasty trampling infecting Elementals aren't enough (or if I've had to go off post combat, e.g. it was a Hunter's Insight that got me the cards I needed), then I can set up a loop. With a Lotus Cobra, Titania, Protector of Argoth and Zuran Orb in play, sacrifice all my lands and Splendid Reclamation them back (giving me 40 odd mana and tokens, and twice that in life). Then Beast Within an opponent's permanent (it doesn't matter what) and cast Seasons Past, getting back Splendid Reclamation and Beast Within. Finally cycle Edge of Autumn to redraw Seasons Past. Repeat an arbitrary amount of times (getting Edge of Autumn back with Seasons Past as well) to give you infinite life, mana and tokens while turning all your opponents' permanents into beasts and leaving Seasons Past in your library so you don't deck yourself on the next turn if you need to wait it out (with Noxious Revival as backup in case someone finds a way of milling it).
Perfect, this helps a ton as well! I was actually trying to hunt down a few Panoramas last night to start putting the deck together, as it is annoying to be caught without a sac outlet (only happened once, but resulted in quite a long game). The extra draw from Greater Good and Life's Legacy should help with that. Also got to find out how amazing Gaea's Cradle (Itlimoc in my case) is when I went for the kill and was tapping for 12 mana while I only had a single land on the field!
After more testing, I managed to get Groundskeeper out and immediately wanted to cut her, as well as Beastmaster Ascension. The former was useless and too much mana to work with, and the latter drew a ton of hate and still didn't finish off the game too well, while being vulnerable to removal as opposed to the quick pumps. Eldritch Evolution sounds like a great swap for one of these, and I'll have to try Reap and Sow as well! Wish I had Crucible of Worlds, as there have been many times I think "If only I could cycle these lands from my graveyard," but with more card draw and Life From the Loam, Excavator, and Splendid Reclamation, I'll have that thought less.
Has anyone tried out Path of Discovery? I cut World Shaper pretty quick, but haven't drawn the enchantment yet. Seems like it could help with filtering, but part of me wants to replace it with Fyndhorn Elves for more acceleration.
Edit @Phrox: That is also an insane infinite, and even if it isn't completely reliable, I absolutely have to try it sometime! I was trying to find a game ending combo to fit in the deck that wasn't Food Chain! Are you alright with me adding it to my deck description on tappedout as a reminder to me with credit to you? Just asking because it isn't a private deck, so others could potentially see the idea.
That is a pretty sweet combo with Seasons Past. What I really like about it is that every other card you need to go off you want in the deck anyway. You don't need to go out of your way to make it work, like I found with World Shaper. You can accidentally fall in to this combo, and if you don't each piece is useful anyway.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG