I decided to modify my Angus Mackenzie deck to utilize Atraxa, Praetors' Voice as she is a much better general for Superfriends. I left my other thread intact as there was enough activity that I didn't want to change the whole thread. Here is my new decklist:
Basically, I cut a couple planeswalkers that weren't pulling their weight (Gideon, Ally of Zendikar for example) as well as a few other cards to make room for the new black cards. I added 8 black cards; all planeswalkers. I am not sure on all of them but I figured I would give them all a shot. Sorin Markov is great but the triple black might be hard in a 4 color deck. The others I added have some utility but I am guessing I will cut some and add in some other cards instead. The Abyss would be good but I am running my only copy in my new Sidar Kondo & Vial Smasher deck, so I would have to pick up a second copy if I want to play it in this deck.
I'm not sure Oath of Gideon is the right thing to cut. Between the bodies it puts out to defend your planeswalkers and the extra loyalty counters, it seems better than Jace, Memory Adept.
Here's my first attempt at a list to abuse proliferate and the skate's doubling:
Memory Adept is definitely one of the weaker walkers left int he deck, but that doesn't mean it is bad. His ultimate can keep me going if I start going off and even before that he helps me keep my hand full.
The reason I am going to cut Oath of Gideon is because the 2 tokens rarely mean anything and even the additional loyalty doesn't usually end up being relevant. The main issue is that it needs to come down before the walkers and early on I would rather cast planeswalkers. This means that 1) I need to even have it in hand and 2) I don't have any planeswalkers to cast. I will almost never choose to cast it over a planeswalker as I want to start getting as much value out of my planeswalkers as possible.
This is why Deepglow Skate is so good. I can play all my planeswalkers as normal and then later just drop down the Skate to double everything. Gideon is never as good as I want it to be and I would rather just swap the two since they both basically fill the same role rather than diluting my planeswalker list.
I admit that Oath of Gideon fits the list and it isn't bad. I just prefer Jace over Oath in this case.
Yeah, that is exactly what led me to putting in Supreme Verdict over Wrath. I don't think the the prevention of regeneration is as relevant as being uncounterable.
And I also agree that Jace, Unraveler of Secrets should make his way into a list like this. I am not sure on Mentack87's card pool or budget, but I think Jace's Ultimate is pretty good to get off (and it is doable with Doubling Season or Deepglow Skate right away) as it helps protect your board from your opponents.
When I was putting this list together and during some playtesting, I actually came to the same two possible cuts. Of the planeswalkers in the deck, Ajani, Mentor of Heroes and Liliana Vess are the two on top of my cut list as well. I left in Ajani because he is a good "draw" effect and the 100 life is not necessarily irrelevant. I left Liliana in (and I am leaving her in for now) just to test her out.
If I ever get my hands on a second copy of The Abyss (my current copy is in my Enchantress deck) I will probably be cutting one of those walkers to make room for it.
I run a 5 color sliver queen deck so my list if much different but I'm just giving you my opinion on those cards Hope you don't mind me lurking around the thread, I'm always looking for new ideas for my deck.
I run a 5 color sliver queen deck so my list if much different but I'm just giving you my opinion on those cards Hope you don't mind me lurking around the thread, I'm always looking for new ideas for my deck.
Not a problem Ironically, part of the reason Liliana is on the chopping block for me is because tutors are good. I am trying to keep the variance high in this deck so I don't run any black tutors beyond her. The only other tutors I run are Mystical Tutor and Call the Gatewatch and the latter is because it is on theme with the deck.
As I was typing this, I realized I should be running Cyclonic Rift in the deck. I am not sure why I am not, but it is another way to keep my Planeswalkers safe.
I was building a Child of Alara Superfriends but I may just go with Atraxa. The abilities it has protects planeswalkers much better than Child does. Also, proliferate goes great with charge counters as well. Magistrate's Scepter gets ridiculous with Doubling Season. Lux Cannon is much more viable and cards like Everflowing Chalice, Astral Cornucopia, and Gem Array produce a ton of mana. Orochi Hatchery produces a ton of chump blockers to protect your planeswalkers, as well. I may cut Umezawa's Jitte in favor of something to give Atraxa indestructible just in case I have to wrath too many times before getting Elspeth, Knight-Errant's emblem online. Or give her shroud due to being the only creature worth anything on the field (maybe adding Vanishing). I'm also considering adding Thornbite Staff to provide Atraxa with a gatling gun like Goblin Sharpshooter.
I feel like I should add Leyline of Anticipation and Vedalken Orrery in order to cast wraths at instant speed and planeswalkers at the end of the turn before mine. But I don't know what to cut . Any suggestions?
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Your list looks pretty sweet and definitely plays more into the proliferate aspect of Ataxa than mine does. I am not sure how much Vedalken Orrery and Leyline are worth it, but if you do want to play those effects I would say Alchemist's Refuge deserves a spot.
To make room for those cards, I can see these as being potential cuts (depending on what you want to do):
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar - I just felt he was underwhelming in this type of build as he wants to go to combat and a lot of what you are trying to do is outside combat
<Various Wraths> - I think you want wraths, but I think you might have too many. Ugin already gets you a repetable wrath and Karn gets you targeted removal. I am not sure if you need that many, so maybe cutting 1 or 2 two wraths to make room might be worthwhile to make your others better by allowing you to cast them at Instant speed.
Otherwise, the best I can think of is to cut down 1 or 2 of the "counters" cards. I am not sure which is the weakest as they are cards I don't typically play.
Also, I think Oath of Nissa becomes even more powerful in 4 and 5 color planeswalker decks. I have goldfished a couple games where I was able to drop Jace the Mindsculptor and turn 4 and something like Vraska the Unseen on turn 5 just because of Oath of Nissa.
I was considering Oath to Nissa as well, thanks for pointing it out to me. Gideon I have because it makes a free token to chump block and gives a permanent anthem as well. I'm trying to run planeswalkers that give me draws or tokens with their adding loyalty.
I think I have too many wraths but since I don't run any creatures I need ways to consistently get rid of creatures.
Even if I don't add the flash enablers I would like to ramp some more, so I may check into that. Maybe by adding Thawing Glaciers.
Sorry for lack of cardtags but I'm writing on my phone.
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Following this now, as I want two Atraxa deck, Superfriends and infect/other counters. I'm not Seeing Oath of Liliana in people's deck and am curious why. Force everyone else to sac a creatures and get a zombie each of your end steps (every end step if you can flash a walker in every turn).
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Following this now, as I want two Atraxa deck, Superfriends and infect/other counters. I'm not Seeing Oath of Liliana in people's deck and am curious why. Force everyone else to sac a creatures and get a zombie each of your end steps (every end step if you can flash a walker in every turn).
I had thought of it and originally had it when this started out as a 4 color Reaper King deck (before going to Angus Mackenzie and now to Atraxa).
The problem, in my mind, is that the two abilities play against one another. You want to cast it early to get the tokens every turn, but then the sacrifice doesn't do as much. If you wait, then you lose out on the tokens and might get a good creature from the sacrifice, but opponents will most likely have "fodder" for it.
Also, 1 token a turn just doesn't do enough to protect walkers to warrant taking up a slot in the deck. Yes, flashing planeswalkers in gets you more tokens, but then you need to add those flash enablers and those take up other spell slots that then just leave your planeswalkers open to being attacked or destroyed since you can't activate their abilities until your next turn.
Others might have different experiences, but this is why I cut it fairly early and never added it back when I added black again.
Taking my Angus list and moving towards Atraxa. The card is too good to not use.. I'm back at an impass making cuts. I need to figure out what direction I'm going. I like the proliferate plan, for sure. I'm wondering if the need for the land ramp creatures with the other mana ramp I'd prefer with filter and mana rocks/signets. Thoughts? At this point, I need like 15 cuts and it's hard haha. The mana base gets crowded with 4C if you include all the shocks, duals, and fetches. With all the rocks, do I even need Land Tax and Burgeoning?
That seems like a lot of land with 8 mana rocks. I could realistically see cutting at least 1 more land, if not 2.
Azusa and Burgeoning are at their best when you can keep your hand full, but I don't think Land Tax is the way to do it. With the amount of land ramp you have, you should have more lands than your opponents already. Land Tax can be a "backup" in case that doesn't pan out, but eventually it will become useless.
I personally like the idea of using Azusa and Burgeoning with Twister effects. So, I would think adding Timetwister (might be out of budget, but still good), Windfall, and even Day's Undoing could help hit land drops easier with those cards. Day's Undoing doesn't work as well with Azusa, but it does work with Burgeoning.
Then, adding in Time Spiral would be good too. These cards let you refill your hand early (and a turn 1 Twister off Mana Crypt could totally mess up your opponents' hands they kept) and lets you get more Walkers late game.
I would say either cut down on 3 mana rocks or 2 lands (or some combination) and then cut Land Tax. If you add in the previously mentioned Twister effects, Burgeoning and Azusa are good. If you don't, I would cut Burgeoning and maybe look at freeing up the slot Azusa takes up too.
For straight up cuts, here is what I can see:
Contagion Engine - Expensive and you would much rather be casting planeswalkers at this point. I think it is just too high on the curve, but this is a preference call. If you feel the double proliferate is good at that cost then I agree it fits the overall plan. Considering you have a couple of ways of just getting to Doubling Season Contagion Engine seems like overkill.
Brainstorm - I have never been fond of Brainstorm outside of dedicated combo/control lists. The one shot effect means you really need something good to make that card worthwhile. And, with walkers and the Twisters I mentioned above, you shouldn't have a problem just drawing cards. You already run Consecrated Sphinx as well which should get you way more cards than Brainstorm.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile - Spot removal is fine, but in a list like this, Wraths are the way to go. Why get rid of one creature when you can get rid of them all? Maybe toss in Wrath of God as a replacement to these?
A couple land ramp creatures and mana rocks - You have a lot here and I actually like to see land ramp (I am not a an of mana rocks due to their vulnerability), but again, I think you would be better served to either go the land ramp plan or the mana rock plan. Trying to do both (in my opinion) is overkill. You could even just cut down on a couple of each.
Its going to replace Oath of Gideon. I am just waiting until I pick it up before updating the list.
Fun coincidence Deepglow Skate is in the Atraxa decklist, so two birds with one stone.
Also @DementedKiry good call on the Astral Cornucopia over Everflowing Chalice, that's mainly why I use this site, to find cool bulk from other sets that just slots in so well to decks.
Its going to replace Oath of Gideon. I am just waiting until I pick it up before updating the list.
Fun coincidence Deepglow Skate is in the Atraxa decklist, so two birds with one stone.
Also @DementedKiry good call on the Astral Cornucopia over Everflowing Chalice, that's mainly why I use this site, to find cool bulk from other sets that just slots in so well to decks.
I did notice that when going through the decklists. I don't normally buy Precons, but because of it, I am considering picking up that precon (there are other cards I want too) as it seems like it would be worth it and I can just give away the cards I don't want..
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That seems like a lot of land with 8 mana rocks. I could realistically see cutting at least 1 more land, if not 2.
Azusa and Burgeoning are at their best when you can keep your hand full, but I don't think Land Tax is the way to do it. With the amount of land ramp you have, you should have more lands than your opponents already. Land Tax can be a "backup" in case that doesn't pan out, but eventually it will become useless.
I personally like the idea of using Azusa and Burgeoning with Twister effects. So, I would think adding Timetwister (might be out of budget, but still good), Windfall, and even Day's Undoing could help hit land drops easier with those cards. Day's Undoing doesn't work as well with Azusa, but it does work with Burgeoning.
Then, adding in Time Spiral would be good too. These cards let you refill your hand early (and a turn 1 Twister off Mana Crypt could totally mess up your opponents' hands they kept) and lets you get more Walkers late game.
I would say either cut down on 3 mana rocks or 2 lands (or some combination) and then cut Land Tax. If you add in the previously mentioned Twister effects, Burgeoning and Azusa are good. If you don't, I would cut Burgeoning and maybe look at freeing up the slot Azusa takes up too.
For straight up cuts, here is what I can see:
Contagion Engine - Expensive and you would much rather be casting planeswalkers at this point. I think it is just too high on the curve, but this is a preference call. If you feel the double proliferate is good at that cost then I agree it fits the overall plan. Considering you have a couple of ways of just getting to Doubling Season Contagion Engine seems like overkill.
Brainstorm - I have never been fond of Brainstorm outside of dedicated combo/control lists. The one shot effect means you really need something good to make that card worthwhile. And, with walkers and the Twisters I mentioned above, you shouldn't have a problem just drawing cards. You already run Consecrated Sphinx as well which should get you way more cards than Brainstorm.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile - Spot removal is fine, but in a list like this, Wraths are the way to go. Why get rid of one creature when you can get rid of them all? Maybe toss in Wrath of God as a replacement to these?
A couple land ramp creatures and mana rocks - You have a lot here and I actually like to see land ramp (I am not a an of mana rocks due to their vulnerability), but again, I think you would be better served to either go the land ramp plan or the mana rock plan. Trying to do both (in my opinion) is overkill. You could even just cut down on a couple of each.
35 lands seems low but I have a lot more rocks than I'm used to running. With that being said, do I have enough lands to make Azusa, Burgeoning, and even stuff like Oracle/Courser effective? I took out Kozilek because we don't generally play against any mill decks in my meta, so not worried about that. Can't afford a Timetwister at this point so I have Day's Undoing in it's place. I sacrificed the mass recursion for the more creature based, since I have Time Spiral and Day's Undoing.
So what do you have to stop tokens and hastey creatures from getting to you? My biggest issue trying to run superfriends, or planeswalkers in general, is the huge target they paint on your head. No one wants you to ultimate, so would things like Silent Arbiter or Dueling Grounds be solid?
Beyond that though, I haven't seen a need to go heavier into trying to control combat. I have some creatures to help block and Atraxa makes attacking into me unattractive. If swarms of creatures become more of a problem, I will probably just add a couple more board wipes.
I know others have mentioned using those cards so they aren't bad options by any means.
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Lands
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Bayou
1 Breeding Pool
1 Canopy Vista
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
4 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Kor Haven
1 Mana Confluence
1 Maze of Ith
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Prahv, Spires of Order
1 Prairie Stream
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Comeuppance
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dig Through Time
1 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Summary Dismissal
1 Time Stop
Sorceries
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 All Suns' Dawn
1 Call the Gatewatch
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Deploy the Gatewatch
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Seasons Past
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Time Spiral
1 Timetwister
1 Verdant Confluence
Creatures
1 Burnished Hart
1 Dawntreader Elk
1 Deepglow Skate
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sun Titan
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Granger
Artifacts
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 The Chain Veil
1 Doubling Season
1 Oath of Jace
1 Oath of Nissa
Planeswalkers
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Liliana Vess
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin Markov
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Vraska the Unseen
Basically, I cut a couple planeswalkers that weren't pulling their weight (Gideon, Ally of Zendikar for example) as well as a few other cards to make room for the new black cards. I added 8 black cards; all planeswalkers. I am not sure on all of them but I figured I would give them all a shot. Sorin Markov is great but the triple black might be hard in a 4 color deck. The others I added have some utility but I am guessing I will cut some and add in some other cards instead. The Abyss would be good but I am running my only copy in my new Sidar Kondo & Vial Smasher deck, so I would have to pick up a second copy if I want to play it in this deck.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Here's my first attempt at a list to abuse proliferate and the skate's doubling:
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Creatures (5):
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Eternal Witness
1 Brago, King Eternal
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Deepglow Skate
Planeswalkers (21):
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Dovin Baan
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Liliana Vess
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Enchantments (10):
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Oath of Jace
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Humility
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Inexorable Tide
1 Doubling Season
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Sol Ring
1 Scroll Rack
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 The Chain Veil
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Contagion Engine
Sorceries (13):
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Wrath of God
1 Terminus
1 Austere Command
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Deploy the Gatewatch
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Time Warp
1 Part the Waterveil
1 Time Stretch
1 Temporal Trespass
Instants (7):
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Utter End
1 Cryptic Command
Land (35):
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip mine
1 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Maze of Ith
1 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Command Tower
1 Mana Confluence
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Canopy Vista
1 Temple Garden
1 Prairie Stream
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
The mana base isn't set yet. I'm also trying to pick something to cut for Venser, the Sojourner, but I'm not sure what yet.
The reason I am going to cut Oath of Gideon is because the 2 tokens rarely mean anything and even the additional loyalty doesn't usually end up being relevant. The main issue is that it needs to come down before the walkers and early on I would rather cast planeswalkers. This means that 1) I need to even have it in hand and 2) I don't have any planeswalkers to cast. I will almost never choose to cast it over a planeswalker as I want to start getting as much value out of my planeswalkers as possible.
This is why Deepglow Skate is so good. I can play all my planeswalkers as normal and then later just drop down the Skate to double everything. Gideon is never as good as I want it to be and I would rather just swap the two since they both basically fill the same role rather than diluting my planeswalker list.
I admit that Oath of Gideon fits the list and it isn't bad. I just prefer Jace over Oath in this case.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
And I also agree that Jace, Unraveler of Secrets should make his way into a list like this. I am not sure on Mentack87's card pool or budget, but I think Jace's Ultimate is pretty good to get off (and it is doable with Doubling Season or Deepglow Skate right away) as it helps protect your board from your opponents.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
If I ever get my hands on a second copy of The Abyss (my current copy is in my Enchantress deck) I will probably be cutting one of those walkers to make room for it.
I run a 5 color sliver queen deck so my list if much different but I'm just giving you my opinion on those cards Hope you don't mind me lurking around the thread, I'm always looking for new ideas for my deck.
As I was typing this, I realized I should be running Cyclonic Rift in the deck. I am not sure why I am not, but it is another way to keep my Planeswalkers safe.
4 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Artifacts: 13
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Contagion Engine
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Gemstone Array
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
1 Orochi Hatchery
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 The Chain Veil
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Well of Lost Dreams
Creatures: 1
1 Clever Impersonator
Enchantments: 8
1 Burgeoning
1 Doubling Season
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Exploration
1 Mind Unbound
1 Oath of Jace
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sylvan Library
Planeswalkers: 23
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Liliana Vess
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Austere Command
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Damnation
1 Day of Judgment
1 Descend upon the Sinful
1 Final Judgment
1 Fumigate
1 Martial Coup
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Rout
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Terminus
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Wrath of God
Lands: 38
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Dromar's Cavern
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Forest
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
5 Island
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Mana Confluence
1 Overgrown Tomb
8 Plains
1 Sunpetal Grove
3 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Treva's Ruins
1 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
I was building a Child of Alara Superfriends but I may just go with Atraxa. The abilities it has protects planeswalkers much better than Child does. Also, proliferate goes great with charge counters as well. Magistrate's Scepter gets ridiculous with Doubling Season. Lux Cannon is much more viable and cards like Everflowing Chalice, Astral Cornucopia, and Gem Array produce a ton of mana. Orochi Hatchery produces a ton of chump blockers to protect your planeswalkers, as well. I may cut Umezawa's Jitte in favor of something to give Atraxa indestructible just in case I have to wrath too many times before getting Elspeth, Knight-Errant's emblem online. Or give her shroud due to being the only creature worth anything on the field (maybe adding Vanishing). I'm also considering adding Thornbite Staff to provide Atraxa with a gatling gun like Goblin Sharpshooter.
I feel like I should add Leyline of Anticipation and Vedalken Orrery in order to cast wraths at instant speed and planeswalkers at the end of the turn before mine. But I don't know what to cut . Any suggestions?
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To make room for those cards, I can see these as being potential cuts (depending on what you want to do):
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar - I just felt he was underwhelming in this type of build as he wants to go to combat and a lot of what you are trying to do is outside combat
<Various Wraths> - I think you want wraths, but I think you might have too many. Ugin already gets you a repetable wrath and Karn gets you targeted removal. I am not sure if you need that many, so maybe cutting 1 or 2 two wraths to make room might be worthwhile to make your others better by allowing you to cast them at Instant speed.
Otherwise, the best I can think of is to cut down 1 or 2 of the "counters" cards. I am not sure which is the weakest as they are cards I don't typically play.
Also, I think Oath of Nissa becomes even more powerful in 4 and 5 color planeswalker decks. I have goldfished a couple games where I was able to drop Jace the Mindsculptor and turn 4 and something like Vraska the Unseen on turn 5 just because of Oath of Nissa.
I was considering Oath to Nissa as well, thanks for pointing it out to me. Gideon I have because it makes a free token to chump block and gives a permanent anthem as well. I'm trying to run planeswalkers that give me draws or tokens with their adding loyalty.
I think I have too many wraths but since I don't run any creatures I need ways to consistently get rid of creatures.
Even if I don't add the flash enablers I would like to ramp some more, so I may check into that. Maybe by adding Thawing Glaciers.
Sorry for lack of cardtags but I'm writing on my phone.BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
The problem, in my mind, is that the two abilities play against one another. You want to cast it early to get the tokens every turn, but then the sacrifice doesn't do as much. If you wait, then you lose out on the tokens and might get a good creature from the sacrifice, but opponents will most likely have "fodder" for it.
Also, 1 token a turn just doesn't do enough to protect walkers to warrant taking up a slot in the deck. Yes, flashing planeswalkers in gets you more tokens, but then you need to add those flash enablers and those take up other spell slots that then just leave your planeswalkers open to being attacked or destroyed since you can't activate their abilities until your next turn.
Others might have different experiences, but this is why I cut it fairly early and never added it back when I added black again.
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Creature (18)
1 Academy Rector
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Burnished Hart
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Dawntreader Elk
1 Deepglow Skate
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sun Titan
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Granger
Planeswalker (25)
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Sorin Markov
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Azorius Signet
1 Contagion Engine
1 Dimir Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 The Chain Veil
Instant (7)
1 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (10)
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Call the Gatewatch
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Deploy the Gatewatch
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Regrowth
1 Rout
1 Seasons Past
1 Supreme Verdict
Enchantment (8)
1 Burgeoning
1 Doubling Season
1 Land Tax
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Oath of Jace
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Omniscience
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bayou
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Grove
1 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Twilight Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Azusa and Burgeoning are at their best when you can keep your hand full, but I don't think Land Tax is the way to do it. With the amount of land ramp you have, you should have more lands than your opponents already. Land Tax can be a "backup" in case that doesn't pan out, but eventually it will become useless.
I personally like the idea of using Azusa and Burgeoning with Twister effects. So, I would think adding Timetwister (might be out of budget, but still good), Windfall, and even Day's Undoing could help hit land drops easier with those cards. Day's Undoing doesn't work as well with Azusa, but it does work with Burgeoning.
Then, adding in Time Spiral would be good too. These cards let you refill your hand early (and a turn 1 Twister off Mana Crypt could totally mess up your opponents' hands they kept) and lets you get more Walkers late game.
I would say either cut down on 3 mana rocks or 2 lands (or some combination) and then cut Land Tax. If you add in the previously mentioned Twister effects, Burgeoning and Azusa are good. If you don't, I would cut Burgeoning and maybe look at freeing up the slot Azusa takes up too.
For straight up cuts, here is what I can see:
Contagion Engine - Expensive and you would much rather be casting planeswalkers at this point. I think it is just too high on the curve, but this is a preference call. If you feel the double proliferate is good at that cost then I agree it fits the overall plan. Considering you have a couple of ways of just getting to Doubling Season Contagion Engine seems like overkill.
Brainstorm - I have never been fond of Brainstorm outside of dedicated combo/control lists. The one shot effect means you really need something good to make that card worthwhile. And, with walkers and the Twisters I mentioned above, you shouldn't have a problem just drawing cards. You already run Consecrated Sphinx as well which should get you way more cards than Brainstorm.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile - Spot removal is fine, but in a list like this, Wraths are the way to go. Why get rid of one creature when you can get rid of them all? Maybe toss in Wrath of God as a replacement to these?
A couple land ramp creatures and mana rocks - You have a lot here and I actually like to see land ramp (I am not a an of mana rocks due to their vulnerability), but again, I think you would be better served to either go the land ramp plan or the mana rock plan. Trying to do both (in my opinion) is overkill. You could even just cut down on a couple of each.
Fun coincidence Deepglow Skate is in the Atraxa decklist, so two birds with one stone.
Also @DementedKiry good call on the Astral Cornucopia over Everflowing Chalice, that's mainly why I use this site, to find cool bulk from other sets that just slots in so well to decks.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
35 lands seems low but I have a lot more rocks than I'm used to running. With that being said, do I have enough lands to make Azusa, Burgeoning, and even stuff like Oracle/Courser effective? I took out Kozilek because we don't generally play against any mill decks in my meta, so not worried about that. Can't afford a Timetwister at this point so I have Day's Undoing in it's place. I sacrificed the mass recursion for the more creature based, since I have Time Spiral and Day's Undoing.
1x Academy Rector
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Deepglow Skate
1x Emeria Shepherd
1x Eternal Witness
1x Greenwarden of Murasa
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Sun Titan
Planeswalker (23)
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1x Ajani Steadfast
1x Dovin Baan
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Jace Beleren
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Karn Liberated
1x Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Vraska the Unseen
1x Azorius Signet
1x Contagion Engine
1x Golgari Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Selesnya Signet
1x Simic Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Strionic Resonator
1x The Chain Veil
Instant (3)
1x Dig Through Time
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (9)
1x Akroma's Vengeance
1x Call the Gatewatch
1x Day's Undoing
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Deploy the Gatewatch
1x Rout
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Time Spiral
1x Wrath of God
Enchantment (7)
1x Burgeoning
1x Doubling Season
1x Oath of Gideon
1x Oath of Jace
1x Oath of Nissa
1x Omniscience
1x Sylvan Library
Land (35)
1x Bayou
1x Breeding Pool
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
3x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mystic Gate
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Temple Garden
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Twilight Mire
1x Underground Sea
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I also have a couple "targeted fogs" with Kor Haven and Prahv, Spires of Order to help protect a specific planeswalker.
Beyond that though, I haven't seen a need to go heavier into trying to control combat. I have some creatures to help block and Atraxa makes attacking into me unattractive. If swarms of creatures become more of a problem, I will probably just add a couple more board wipes.
I know others have mentioned using those cards so they aren't bad options by any means.